The Song of Storms Paradox Explained (Zelda Theory)
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- The Song of Storms is a musical masterpiece that, at first glance, would appear to have impossible origins-- but is this really the case? Join me as we delve into the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess to solve the age old mystery of who created the Song of Storms.
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Welcome to the official channel of Masked Nintendo Bandit. I am the most chill Nintendo/Zelda CZcamsr you'll ever meet! Join me for theories, top 10s, reviews, vlogs, and more! I upload as often as possible, which generally means once a week. Don’t forget to subscribe and enable all push notifications so you never miss a video! Thanks for checking me out!
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EDIT: Hey guys, so first off this is a time travel theory; things are going to be kind of shaky. That being said, a lot of commenters are getting hung up on the separation of Child Timeline/Adult Timeline. This is kind of hard to explain in text (I really should have included it in the video), but here goes: if this were completely true, then Link as an adult learning the song for himself to then go back and teach the Windmill Man the song would be two separate events with no bearing on one another. However, the time traveling aspect of this game was obviously first imagined as a continuity (with things in the past affecting things in the future), otherwise the entire Song of Storms bootstrap paradox is just a hoax. So really, it depends on how/when you interpret the timeline split.
Another thing to remember is that the majority of this video is not a theory-- it's factual. Flat is said to have created the song in Majora's Mask, that isn't something I'm making up or stretching. The theory section of this video is really just at the end, when I conclude that Link himself brought the song over; but *something* must have. Anyway I'm sure this won't actually clear up anyone's questions, as I'm unsure that people will actually read this before commenting; but there's my two cents on the confusion. Thanks for watching!
What's your favorite song to play on the Ocarina?
MaskedNintendoBandit definitely the song of healing!
Has got to be song of storms
Midna's Lament
MaskedNintendoBandit I think it’s Zelda’s lullaby
Got to be the prelude of light
In the wise words of Sheogorath; "It makes sense if you don't think about it."
I miss that dude, he was so wise, I hope that he is annoying someone in the oblivion.
I want to see the Looney Daedric Prince in ES6
@@ahmedfalahy9337 everybody wants to see him.
CHEESE FOR EVERYONE!!!
Yes!
Last time I was this early, Skyloft was still around
nice
I mean, it still is...
But it Is skyloft never fell only its statue
Going out on a limb here: I'm pretty sure the origins of the Song of Storms was designed to be a paradox.
Yeah exactly! You can't have a game with time travel without designing at least one puzzle involving a paradox
TIME TRAVEL BOOTSTRAP PARADOX LOOP SPINNING WINDMILL HOLY SHIT
That… actually makes some sense. The structure of the song itself is very repetitive and cyclical, and you learn it in a windmill which also has a cyclical nature. It definitely connects to the idea of the time loop
Still, this 1996 (or so) videogame had a better Time-traveling plot than Avengers: Endgame
@@owenlewis4693
this also recalls to the fact that in the Zelda lore, Ganondorf always comes back. And Zelda and Link need to merge forces to defeat the evil.
The (hi)story repeats itself over and over again.
A couple of problems:
1.Termina is a parallel universe, it's possible for the song of storms to exist in both worlds, and be created by someone else. Even if Flat is still the one that composes the song in Hyrule, it still doesn't mean Link couldn't have learned it and used it on the windmill.
2. The adult timeline continues as it was left off, and the child timeline has no effect on it.
maybe the windmill guy teaches adult Link how to play the song of storms creating this loop without him knowing that he did it
The chicken one is easy you first hit the chicken and then they spawn from every ware and try to eviscerate you.
lol
This theory is a bit cucco
That can’t be the explanation, by the time Link reaches Termina he’s on a new branch. What he brings back to Hyrule at that point won’t have any effect on the Adult branch.
You're right, but at least he put some thought into it.
Yes exactly
skott townzend So....is your comment just hating on his theory or you’re just criticizing?
Time paradox
Like In Dragonball z (here is a Qoute from the Abridged DBZ)
"Multiverse theory is a bitch"
The official timeline is wrong.
This doesn't actually solve the origin, Link in MM is already in Child timeline, teaching the Guru that song should not have effect to the events in the adult timeline.
Thought the same
Same, I bet more on the fact that random child who resembles the description, taught the man the song of the time after link was sealed, and then link learns it and travels back in time then end up teaching him the song before random child did.
Exactly
There is a pathway used by Gorons because the dodongos cavern is mentioned be a Goron in termina
Exactly.
Different time branches already.
There's a problem with this. Once Link goes to Termina we are already past the timeline split. Any actions Link makes after being sent back at the end of OoT would only effect the child branch of the timeline. The presence of the Song of Storms in the adult timeline can't be due to Link's actions in Termina, though it still could be the original source of the Song.
the egg came first. it predates even the non-avian dinosaurs.
Finally
Someone knows their facts
Jelyfish, prehistoric fish and aquatic insects also laid eggs before reptiles were a thing, too. So yeah; eggs came before the chicken.
Technically, No. The chicken came first because God created two of each animal first.
AJ Hurtado yep
God created the two chickens
Then they went extinct because of incest over a few generations
@@biblebot3947 yep
HOLD ON A MINUTE! I can't be the only one that noticed how throughout all of the main Breath of the Wild trailers there was a major theme around the line "open your eyes". And now the first thing that we see in it's much darker squeal's trailer is Ganondorf, the (assumed) main antagonist of the game, opening his eyes towards our heroes Link and Zelda. Huh. Great parallel Nintendo!
Not only that, at the end of the trailer(sort of) when Zelda turns around frightened matches up almost perfectly with when you first meet Princess Zelda in Ocarina of Time. And when Ganondorf looks at her with his eyes full of malice, it matches up well with when Ganondorf looks at Link through the window in Ocarina of Time.
"Do you see the man with the evil eyes?"
Eggs came before cucoo's.
Yup. Science agrees.
what do you mean, Cuccos were there within the army of Demise fighting against Hylia. They're demons incarnate which only later took a harmless look to approach people and keep tabs on future heroes.
@@puline397 Ó ^ Ò'
I call bullshit on science. They say chicken eggs come from dinosaurs mutation... ok thats as fat fetched as zelda theory videos.. and even if thats true that wouldnt solve the problem ... the animal just changed but still had to come first. Why? An egg needs to be hedged. Humans have eggs too but hatch them inside. Logic tells me that the animal was first. But ofcourse that means we have to believe in creation... which is something scientists would never agree on... but its the only plausible explenation
@@SarahConnor618 humm...
1.animal get ovipare gene
2.makes egg
3.descendant becomes chicken
I don't see why it wouldn't make sense
The way time travel works in OoT is time always moves forward, whenever you are.
Link doesn’t go back to the *exact* moment he pulled the Master Sword. It’s a few seconds/minutes afterward. Each time he pulls and replaces the sword, this happens, it’s *always* seconds/minutes later.
Now, with that in mind, the paradox is a fallacy. Why? Because of how the time travel works, Link can still be sleeping in the Sacred Realm for 7 years because those 7 years are from the last time he pulls the sword before facing Ganondorf.
Ganondorf disappears into the Sacred Realm the first time Link pulls the sword, so there’s theoretically *months* were Link went back and forth.
Link learns it in the future. That’s the starting point, because Link hasn’t entered the well in the past yet, and doesn’t even know about that until after he has spent days/weeks traversing the future Hyrule, and travelling back and forth in time.
It’s also something he *absolutely needs* to do, so the loop is closed once Link goes back and plays the song.
Tl;dr - OoT’s version of time travel allows future starting points for loops to occur because time travel in it is omnilinear.
0:53 Another example of the Bootstrap Paradox in Zelda is the Goron Vase in the item trade of Oracle of Ages. You get the Goron Vase in the present, and the guy says it's been his our family for generations. When you go to the Goron standing in the *exact* same spot in the past, the Goron takes it and says it would make a nice heirloom.
Song of storms is one of my all time favorite zelda songs, lucky for me :))
By the time Majora’s Mask ends, link is in a new timeline, so he couldn’t affect the adult era timeline since he won’t go to that timeline anymore. If what you were saying was true, than everything that occurs after Majora’s mask in the child timeline changes the adult timeline. Or maybe I just misunderstood. Either way, interesting theory nonetheless
"The Song of Storms, a melody Link learned in an alternate future from a guy who learned it from Link in an alternate past and he learns that the song apparently originated from Termina, an alternate world, in a new alternate past or present." - Me
Ironically, I myself also very briefly, because of the character limit, talked about this exact thing a couple weeks ago on Twitter. The Song of Storms paradox topic I mean.
I recently replayed through N64 Majora's Mask and when I got to the part where you remember the Song of Storms I decided to take pictures and word my comment in a somewhat confusing way but also straightforward with the intention of making people's brains hurt as a joke though.
This is very well done. Fast paced, informative and surprising funny. Not to mention you’ve got a great personality. Subscribed.
Here's how it REALLY happened:
Kakariko Village was built by the Sheikah, decades before the events of Ocarina of Time, and part of the design for the town included all sorts of secret passages and puzzles to guard their secrets. The windmill draining the well was an intended function, and using the Song of the Storms was the intended solution. In service to the royal family, the Sheikah tortured Hyrule's enemies and caused a great deal of pain to many, giving birth to a powerful evil. When Zelda was taken in by the Sheikah, she learned about this evil she decided to seal it away before Ganondorf could ever get ahold of it. It was ZELDA that taught the music man the Song of the Storms, which she, in turn, had learned from the Shiekah so that she may attempt to trap it in the bottom of the well.
Boom, no paradox.
I just had the same idea! Though I never thought about the idea of the song coming from the Sheikah, only the "Zelda taught the windmill man the song" part. But considering that the Composer Brothers are implied to be sheikah, and it's Flat, one of the composer brothers who teaches you the Song of Storms in Majora's Mask it could totally work. Not to mention if you talk to the Composer Brothers in Ocarina of Time, they say that Link reminds them of Princess Zelda. This could easily be a past Zelda, perhaps one of her ancestors, but I find it most likely to be the Zelda we know in Ocarina of Time. Perhaps the Composer Brothers themselves met her and taught Zelda the song?
This has always been my favorite song. I used to listen to shitty mp3 files in the elementary computer lab, behind the teachers back of course. The haunting melody always called to my soul.
Am I the only one who wants more paradoxes?
I'm not a secret agent. I'm THE secret agent. 😎
Yes you are! Best comment 💜
Why thank you.
Paradoxes are great
I love paradoxes.
Goron Vase in Oracle of Ages
There's another paradox I found in Ocarina of Time. I decided to try and complete the Gerudo Fortress Section of the game before completing the Shadow Temple part of the game, and when I realized I needed the boots from the Shadow Temple to save the last Carpenter, I decided to head home, but on the way back, I spoke with the three carpenters I had already saved.
They mentioned how Nabooru and her gang of thieves was harassing them, however, this was before I had completed the child section of the Spirit Temple (where Nabooru is brainwashed at the end) which implies that in the past Nabooru was already brainwashed by the witches, but she isn't brainwashed in the game until you complete the child section of the Spirit Temple (which technically happens AFTER saving the carpenters, since afterwards you cross the Wasteland and go back in time)
I apologize I could have sworn I subscribed to you like forever ago lmao I love your videos they help me understand even if in theory more about the Zelda universe I haven't known from being limited to what games in the series I could play my whole life. Keep up the great vids can't wait for the next one!
Very new sub to this channel but the content, humor and editing are so good. Good job!
Theory falls apart the moment you remember that Link learned the song originally from the Music Man in the Adult Timeline, and Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess are from the Child Timeline, so that doesn't work. Neat idea, but otherwise not possible.
I see what you’re saying; but Flat conducted it in Majora’s Mask of the child timeline, so there is a Child Timeline origin point-be it Link’s original discovery of the song or not.
Also, a nice piece to note is that when learning the song in MM, it states you “learned” the song of storms. For other songs like the song of time, it says you “remembered” it, since Link already knew that song in OoT. Why would it say learned instead of remember? Another very peculiar detail that adds to this origin story (that I also promptly forgot to add into the video)
@@BanditGames The thing is, it doesn't matter. When he goes to Termina, and learns the Song of Storms, it is on a different timeline from the one where he learned it during OoT. So, if he does go back, and play the song for the Windmill guy, Adult Link won't be there to learn it, because that Link doesn't exist on the Child Timeline, meaning the Bootstrap Paradox can't take hold. Meaning that the Adult Timeline's Paradox still has no "start".
Not really. The adult timeline gets created after Zelda sends link to his childhood. The "adult timeline" we play in OoT has a Link that defeats Ganondorf, the "Adult Timeline" doesn't have a hero, (that leads to the events of wind waker). Link in the child era will eventually become an adult, even more, is said in Twilight Princess that after Ganondorf plans were spoiled, he raged war on Hyrule for several years. OoT Link maybe fought on that war after returning from Termina and becoming an adult naturally (maybe he entrusted the Master Sword again and learned the TP techniques), that would mean that for defeating Ganondorf again he should have to re-enter the temples again, meaning that he needs to teach the song of Storms to Hyrule's GuruGuru in order to enter the bottom of the well to get the Lens of Truth as he knows he will need it. Not really for setting "things in motion". As the "adult timeline" hasn't been created at the time we play as an adult, this event is what gets carried over.
As Zeltik says in his video. There's an entry point for the song of Storms, but the adult portion of OoT is like a limbo timeline, because yes, is the "past" of the adult timeline but not the "future" of the child timeline (as it gets "overwritten", let's say) but it has the same link causing events in those two. They have continuity between each other, even after the split. If they didn't, The adult timeline would have corrected itself with a clone hero of time, but it didn't, Zelda send the hero so no hero in said timeline.
Also remember, there is a third timeline in the split, when the hero dies, so, there's that
MNB, my mans. Love your content regardless of how much I agree with your theories. Good stuff.
Tbh, sometimes I miss something and don't realize your explanations are actually just discussion.
But, I feel like this video is best understood after watching your more recent theory on "fixing the timeline" which is another excellent vid.
developers: reuse assets
this guy: *PARADOX*
Thank you for your great videos. Can't wait till we get the next bit of info on the sequel.
I learned about the bootstrap paradox from Doctor Who.
Blake Umbra watch dark best show of all time
Doctor who heaven sent. That was just sick.
If you keep making great content like this you’re gonna blow up in no time
Awesome Stormy Video Bro!
Interesting theory!
I just subscribed, going to watch the other theories too because I can never get enough of videos like this
I've been waiting for a youtuber to do a video on the Song of Storms Paradox. It's one of my favourite bits of trivia to bore people with
i think it's most likely that it wasn't originally Link at all that played the song, but perhaps a different kid and Link upon hearing what the song did and learning it took it upon himself to usurp the original child that played the song on their ocarina effectively making it so that Link from then on was always the person who played the song for the old man.
I love your theory! This is a really clever one.
I love this theory.
Best one I've heard on this subject.
I still see some pretty big flaws in the logic though.
You're assuming child Link & adult Link were in the SAME child timeline.
Granted, child Link may have been in Termina during the times adult Link came back, but it's also quite possible adult Link could go back to the child timeline & teach the Song of Storms to the windmill man BEFORE child Link returned from Termina.
Also, if child Link played the Song of Storms at the windmill first, there would be no need for adult Link to play it as child Link...which would actually unravel the timeline rather than preserving it.
It's also kinda dangerous for Link to try to return from Termina to the play the Song of Storms at the windmill to preserve the timeline with the knowledge he could encounter his past self.
Not to mention, he changed the timeline in a huge way already (which caused the Child/Adult timeline split) when he returned as a child, and warned Zelda of Ganondorf, resulting in Ganon being sealed away rather than ruling Hyrule for 7 years.
Like I said, best theory I've heard about this subject so far, but it seems to raise more questions with its answer, and requires a few leaps of faith in logic.
Regardless, this many loose ends fit the song perfectly.
THAT'S such a great solution to this whole time circle paradox thing, I LOVE IT!!! 😍 You're my hero. Also this example with the Q instead of a simple O-shaped circle, it's so clever!!! 😱😱😱 Thank you so much for this enlightning. 😘
So in a nutshell... Post-MM Young Link started the cycle just so OoT Link could take over said cycle.
(Even with a "confirmed" song origin, the Ocarina magic was still crucial for paradox creation)
It's funny how you mentioned most of your views come from people who aren't subscribed. I've been watching your content pretty consistently since the beginning of the summer last year and your videos literally show up so often when I get on CZcams, that I thought I was subbed this entire time lmao
One could also argue that the Triforce of courage makes this possible, since it probably has powers over time...
Super good addition of adding Majora's mask as the origin.
This idea is so perfect. The Q was also perfect!!
The thing is though, Guru Guru’s music box *ALREADY* plays the Song of Storms, but he had no idea it was a magical tune because it was being played by a non-magical instrument.
Great video. Great intro. Made me immediately subscribe (after 20-some-odd videos watched. Sorry Bandit!)
I love this theory so much I going make it cannon in my own play through, so thank you for that :)
As well known as the song is, a favorite to all, nobody ever points out how it's missing from BotW, lending to THE most universal frustration of players, hahaha! Well played, Nintendo. Guru Guru's revenge!! Also, I like your explanation!
BotW don't care about the timeline
"Its a paradox you idiot, there is no answer!"- GLaDoS
Of course the child timeline can affect the adult timeline. In cases like this where it’s a loop, there has to be an original action to set it in motion and allow it to continue in a big ol circle.
It makes sense that child link would play the song so adult link knows it happened and learn the song, then comes back and plays it as a kid, ensuring that there is always a younger link who plays the song in the windmill so adult link can learn it in the future
It says when you get the song in MM that "You REMEMBERED the song of storms", implying that link came to termina already knowing it.
I always assumed a skullkid came between the 7 year leap to play the song. Skull kid('s) are one of the very few who we know have traveled between worlds, and also have instruments of their own. Not necessarily the Possessed Skull Kid but one of em.
I think this theory works out. I like how it doesn't make the time travel less confusing.
Song of storms and Sariah’s song/lost woods song are the most recognized and catchy in my opinion
Hey Bandit, I know this is an older video but if you happen to see this I’d love to hear your thoughts. What I’ve always wondered is how did Guru-Guru’s equivalent in Majora’s Mask learn the song if it can only be found in Flat’s tomb in Termina but Guru can be found playing it in the Laundry Pool before you open the grave up. The mystery thickens……
Nicely done
What about the paradox in MM where link gets to keep new stuff he get whenever he goes back in time to the first day?
I think that's more of a convenience mechanic for gameplay purposes, but I could be wrong
I never even considered this a possibility. It makes so much sense!
Smooth theory vid, my guy. 3 thumbs way up.
Thanks Yaboi :) But you may wanna get that three thumb thing checked out ;)
@@BanditGames No. I don't think I will.
@@jorgeoquendo7514 Hey guys, thanks for your input!
By your logic, if the "events of the child timeline wouldn't effect the events of the adult timeline", the in-game event of Young Link teaching the Windmill Man the song in the past wouldn't affect Adult Link learning it from him in the future; the two events would be unrelated since they're in different timelines. Thing is, the game says differently. Clearly the timelines were initially imagined as a continuity, with Adult Link learning the song that Young Link then teaches the one who will eventually teach Adult Link, and like the windmill hut, round and round it goes; this is the basis of why the Song of Storms can be a paradox in the first place.
With the only possible (yet undoubtedly factual) origin for the Song of Storms being its very distinctive appearance in Majora's Mask, this theory-- or one that's similar-- seems to be a definite possibility. But that's the fun thing about game theories: they're just theories ;)
@@BanditGames The "child timeline" isnt the one when Link is travelling back and forth in the game though. The "child timeline" starts AFTER Ganon is defeated and Zelda sends Link back to relive his childhood where none of the events of the game took place, especially the events of the adult timeline in the game. So the cause and effect that the child timeline during the game have on the adult timeline cease to exist in the one where Zelda kinda resets everything.
Y'all know you can make your own comment threads? It's super easy. See mine is a *p o s i t i v e* comment. The fact that you piggybacked negatively off mine wouldn't be as bad, if you'd actually made valid points. Now gtfo.
I always wondered why, when you enter the windmill it just displays a question mark instead of saying “inside the windmill” or something. Unless when you enter it, you’re actually walking through a portal into termina, which is unknown to Hyrule so it just reads “?” ??
Probably not.
I feel like I’ve read this video title before maybe from Zeltik or someone else
Awesome Video
The song of storms has always confused me. Great video!
It becomes very simple if we attribute the original teacher as some unknown random individual, probably teaching it to windmill guy some time during the gap where Link "departed" to the Sacred Realm for 7 years. When Link learns it as an adult, due to his quirky time travel abilities, he has the capability of becoming the new teacher of the song to windmill guy before unknown teacher A ever shows up, which if this is the case, means windmill guy would be having two bad days before Adult Era. Thanks Link ;)
That's almost exactly my theory as well. The only difference is that in my version, when Link becomes the teacher, he creates a new timeline, and either a) he's now stuck in that new timeline, or b) whenever he travels to the past or future, he also hops back and forth between the new and original timelines.
You know, when it's put like that, in relation to time travel shenanigans, that does make a lot more sense, but either way, it's a nice explanation for how it would work.
this vid is amazing
Huh. Wow I’m actually really flippin impressed by this video... This theory actually is a really valid reason the song of storms was taught to the windmill man by link in the past of Oot. But not past past link, just past. Holy moly you have blown my mind and now I subscribe.
@BanditGames maybe the song of storms was a lullaby that link's mom sang to him before she took link to the Kokiri forest, and he to taught it to the windmill man, who then taught it to adult link.
I think the theory makes sense, but only if child Link’s memories are also removed by the end of game wipe. He then has to learn the song from Flat in Termina, instead of being able to go directly to the windmill and playing it anyway. Which then makes him a kid jerk, but that’s more likely than an intended paradox creator.
It’s so interesting to look backward at events, knowing more now than then, and get hints as to how and why things happened. But even still, they seem implausible. Or maybe they were inevitable. I like the letter O with an insertion point :)
There are some other possibilities.
A) there are other ways to learn the song. Link originally learned the song some other way, then played it as a child who therefore taught it to the man. Prior to this in Link's own timeline, he met the man as an adult. Had the man known the song at the time, he would have taught it to Link then. But from the man's perspective, he _did_ know the song when he met adult Link. Therefore he teaches it to adult Link when they first meet, removing the separate adventure from the timeline.
B) Parallel universes. If instead of time travel Link is traveling to neighboring universes that exist in different times, using a child body in one and an adult body in the other, then there's no pardox. He learns the song in the adult universe then plays it again in the child universe. This fits well with the official timeline since it explains why that timeline splits all over the place, especially during Ocarina of Time. It's also more similar to the light dimension / dark dimension from Link to the Past, which used similar logic to its "time travel."
An interesting theory for sure.
I always believed Sharp and Flat were just multi-dimensional beings with their origin in Termina. Whatever unused assets of Ocarina of Time were used in Majora's Mask.
It would make sense If the First Grumpy Old Man learned it from Majora's Mask Link. A Link from the past visits and returns to the past, thusly creating the paradox.
It makes sense. Kinda. All throughout MM, Link is being assisted in his Time Travel by the 'Goddess of Time' maybe her divine interference allows MM Link to play the song for OoT Guru-Guru by temporarily placing him back into the child timeline after Young Link gets sealed away by the Master Sword then when the job is done, the Goddess replaces him back into the timeline she took him from.
I guess it can make sense considering link has forgotten all the songs he was taught in ocarina of time because he was taught the song of time from zelda in majoras mask so him learning the song of storms from the ghost and using it to go back and fixing the windmill can work but my thing is wouldn't ganondrof would've been stopped by now
I know this video is a little old now, but I have some thoughts. Link didn't have to teach the song to the windmill guy again. He was in the child timeline after the events of OoT, so anything he did in the child timeline wouldn't have any effect on the adult time line. So the way it played out was exactly what it looked like in OoT. Again, I know this video is old but this is the first time I've seen it lol.
Once Link goes back in time and stops Ganondorf early, a new universe is created, so how does the song get back to Hyule in the universe where Ganondorf is in control? Link would have to switch back to OoT’s reality, which makes things a lot more complicated
I think this makes sense but alittle complex
@@skotttownzend5170 ok if he died then why does twilight princess link alive. HE IS THE ONLY link that already knows eponas song
@@skotttownzend5170 and link didn't need anything from the well. The only thing there was the eye of truth. And link doesn't have anything items ( besides his sword and shield) he is empty cause he doesn't have anything when he's a kid
@@donaldchurch4253 I didn't say there the same link. IF time link got hooked up with malon. It would make sense for twilight to know the song.
Didn't make sense at first, then I watched it again and realized it makes a lot of sense!
"YEAAAAH. Majora's Mask is kinda dark."
The Shadow Temple is literally a torture chambed full of vengeful undead, that was, in all liklihood, fully vetted by the royal family. >__>
Add that the boss is a guy who got his hand and head off cut down. And a friend and i deducted this was the guy who stole the eye of truth and was killed by the sheikans
MNB, I have been thinking about this alot lately and thought of something that might make more sense.
I believe that MM is a dream from Link, so Link may have thought of Skull Kid because he passed him on the ride after OOT. This is important because Skull Kid can play the ocarina, so mabey SKULL KID taught the windmill guy the song of storms. It could have also been Skull Kid who died in Link's fallen timeline.
This probably doesn't make much sense but thanks for reading. Just something to think about.
I just finished Links Awakening and was about to start Ocarina of Time. Good timing
That's awesome, with time travel, you still have to keep the timelines intact.
Just found you and just subscribed :)
my theory can be contained purely in the one game, OoT (no MM or TP influence necessary)...because in Ocarina of Time, Link learns his non-warp songs from various NPCs-- but he could also just listen to the BGM of that area and learn the song by ear...think about it: Zelda's Lullaby plays in Zelda's Garden the whole time, before Impa teaches you "Left Up Right, Left Up Right" (N64's C-directions; ive memorized them a long time ago, so i know them more than the 3DS counterparts, but anyways), he learns Saria's Song in the Lost Woods, Epona's Song at LonLon, technically the Song of Time was explained by Zelda while she was in the Temple of Time, in that weird telepathic flashback whatsit, when you first get the blue ocarina...the Sun's Song is just the very first few bits of the Hyrule Field theme, though you learn the song in the Royal Family's tomb...so maybe all the background music that YOU (the player) hear is Actually playing for You (Link) to hear...with me so far? aright, cool...
...so the inside of the Windmill is constantly playing the very song that drives 'Guru-Guru' mad (i use MM's NPC-names for OoT's unnamed NPCs, like 'Anju' for the Kakariko Cucco Lady)...maybe Young Link wandered into the windmill for a bit, heard that music playing, and decided to try playing along to it (considering the nature of Time Travel On Demand, there could be some "downtime" between defeating Barinade in JabuJabu, and pulling the Master Sword for the first time)...but since Link's Ocarina seems to have magical properties, it triggered The Storm that drained the well...even the Fairy Ocarina that Saria gave you is magical-- Zelda's Lullaby can repair broken signs, Epona can hear her song no matter where she is, the Sun's Song will literally speed time forward to the next night/day, and Saria's Song lets you talk telepathically with Saria, hell im pretty sure that the Fairy Ocarina could also open the Door of Time, but by the time you learn the SoT, youve already picked up the OoT...
...so basically, "this kid with his stupid ocarina" decides to pass some time by learning how to play the Windmill's Music (which is blaring out of GG's organ grinder box thing), but because its Link's Ocarina, it makes an Actual Storm and screws up the windmill...obviously, Guru-Guru is pissed, and he holds a grudge for seven years while Rip Van Linkle naps in the Chamber of Sages...seven years later, Link is unrecognizable as an adult (even the Kokiri call you "mister", even though theyve known Link the longest out of any NPC) so Guru-Guru vents his frustrations out to the Adult, about that adult's Younger Self, without realizing the two are one and the same...thats when Link can put two and two together, and realize that "A Down Up, A Down Up" can make the weather change, and 'officially' adds SoS to his musical repertoire...
not to discredit any of this theory, since the Zelda series is FILLED with self-references and callbacks and interwoven lore, but like i said, i wanted to craft a theory that could be possible, STRICTLY within the single game...
There's actually nothing windmill guy says that specifies Link as the culprit. We're just led to assume that the kid he mentions is Link. There's also nothing that says Link is the only one with an Ocarina (he isn't, since Saria has one too). Nor is the Song of Storms specified as some secret tune known only by the upper political echelon. Any boy could've had an Ocarina and known the Song of Storms. Every song has a use (particularly the ones created by the Composer Bros.). Since the Song of Storms brings rain to a small area, it could've been used to water crops during a drought season or put out/prevent wildfires. That kind of song makes way more sense to be widely known than to be a guarded secret.
So, an unnamed boy with a common instrument played a well-known song in the Kakariko windmill sometime shortly after Link was trapped in the Sacred Realm and everyone in Castle Town moved to Kakariko Village. Possible, even probable.
If that's true, then when Link goes back in time and plays the Song of Storms in the windmill, he creates a whole new timeline, wherein _he_ is the one to teach windmill guy the song. And when Link returns to the future, either he's returning to his original timeline or he's now stuck in the new timeline he created.
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Stuff like this is the reason why I love the Legend of Zelda series
You are genious, sir :)
Thanks for being one of the only people that understand infinite loops in time travel need to be Kickstarted
You got a chill voice
Awesome discovery!!!👏👏😯😮
And here I thought that due to the music Guru-Guru is playing in the windmill and Link being 10 years old in the child timeline may have just brought out the ocarina one day, played along with the song and discovered the song purely on accident.
As your edit says, when operating on just the time travel logic of the N64 games, this theory holds up extremely well.
However, with the timeline split existing, I find it more likely that the Hylian composer brothers created the Song just like their Terminan counterparts. I've always assumed Guru-guru was playing the Song on his music box, [given the pace correlates to the speed he turns the crank] and it's the act of actually playing the Song that activates the rain effect.
So it's less of a mystery of where it came from, and more how did guru guru get that music box?? Lol and did the composer brothers create The Wind Waker?
The mean kid that taught the SoS to the Windmill guy was...Skullkid. He already has a past history of going to and from Termina before OoT even begins (so before the timeline split). (Also the Happy Mask Salesman goes and forth between the two worlds as well). He learned it from the composer brothers...somehow.
When Link learns the song in the adult timeline he then travels back to a time before skullkid teaches the Windmill guy the song, and takes skullkid’s place. These events branch off into the adult timeline with Link going to the child timeline. In that reality Skullkid will probably still teach the SoS to windmill guy but there will be no adult Link to learn it from him and then travel back in time, just Kid Link going to Termina and returning having already learned the song from the composers. Perhaps Link eventually reverses the situation for the Windmill guy in the child timeline, or not. We will never know.
It's the egg. If the question had been, "Which came first, the chicken or the *chicken* egg?", then this would be completely different, but it is highly likely that a chicken actually hatched out of the egg of a similar species. This means the egg was not a "chicken egg", but just an egg, that happened to hatch a chicken, potentially through mutation.
Awesome theory bruh.
Honestly, it could just be that the music box guy came up with the song himself during the time-skip and then taught it to adult Link who went back in time to play it for him before he created it, thus causing the paradox. He did mention in the child section of the game that he was trying to come up with a theme inspired by the windmill going around and around, and the Song of Storms does give off that vibe.
However it first came about though, what I find more interesting is how the Zelda universe decides what causes a time paradox/inconsistency and what doesn't. For example, in Skyward Sword everything Zelda does in the past is already in effect before she even enters the gate of time. However, everything Link does in the past, such as planting the sapling for Lanayru, does not come into effect until he actually performs them.
My best guess is that anything a person accomplishes through time travel will only have an affect on the present/future if it doesn't alter the course of history in any meaningful way. For example, Zelda already being present within the Temple of Hylia or Impa wearing the bracelet Zelda gave her in the past would not stop Zelda from performing her role in the story. After all, she doesn't even seem to be aware of that stuff. Likewise, the Song of Storms paradox doesn't change the fact that Link still has to go back in time and play it to drain the well.
Whereas on the other hand, if the tree was already present in the temple of Hylia from the very beginning of Skyward Sword then Link would never have a reason to plant the sapling in the first place, which would be a problem. The whole universe would probably, uhh... fold in on itself and implode... or something like that.
(Side note: Speaking of Skyward Sword, how did that game even start? If Demise is only being kept at bay because Impa brought Zelda from the future to keep him sealed, then how would that work? Wouldn't Demise have already laid waste to the world before Zelda was ever born in the first place, thus obviously making it impossible for her to go back in time to stop it? My head hurts. :p)
It's a good theory, but the only problem I have with it would be the timeline Link returns to after Termina is completely different to the one Adult Link needs the Song of Storms for. Link is already in the branching path, and the events of Adult Link won't happen. That's the point of the split timeline.
Those were a lot of words you just said; my brain can't fully comprehend any of it
Read you're comment. Besides that, I agree. The O to Q comparison is how I see it. Like at 7:14 I'm like "It could be both, neither really contradicts the other. It could be destiny that he composes it"
It's also my favorite song from Zelda and I've always thought it made sense to 'originate' from my favorite Zelda game. Lol
I understand & I agree with you’re theory! Another CZcamsr did a theory about a year ago implying there’s 3 forms of Child Link. To explain this, I combined the Ship of Theseus theory + the “laws” of time travel.
My argument is simple. For every time Link time travels, regardless if it’s 7 years or 3-4 days in MM, he’s essentially a different version of himself. He is the same Link, but he’s also not the same due to the effects of time traveling. He breaks the rules that bound him to time bc he holds the Ocarina of Time.
Bootstrap Paradox is Guru Guru teaching SoS to Adult Link because Guru Guru learned it from Child Link. There has to be an outside source, bc Child Link in OoT didn’t know the song to teach Guru Guru.
Child Link Zero is who we start out as, before Link ever pulls the Master Sword. As soon as he pulls the sword, this Link pretty much done with his timeline.
Child Link Seven is who goes back and forth seven years after pulling the sword. This instance would’ve created multiple versions of Child Link Seven, but this timeline was rectified at the end of OoT when he was sent back by Zelda to his child timeline, & puts away the Master Sword. He warns Young Zelda of Ganon’s betrayal, and Ganon’s plans are stopped.
***If Link’s adventure stops here, the timeline splits to Wind Waker where it’s revealed he defeats Ganon, then the events of the Great Flood by Goddess Hylia***
Then we have Child Link One, bc of the events of Majoras Mask. Due to Child Link Seven’s usage of the Ocarina of Time constantly messing with time in Termina, he warps back and forth within the 3 days of the moon falling. In Termina is where the original source of the Song of Storms comes from, and he’s known to have made it back into the land of Hyrule.
Child Link One is the one who taught Guru Guru. Guru Guru hinted that about seven years ago, he was taught SoS by Ocarina kid. Child Link One would be slightly older than Child Link Zero & would overlap the timeline while Child Link Seven was frozen in the seven year time skip. In other words, there was one time when there were TWO Child Links in the same plane of existence due to time travel. They never interact, bc Child Link Seven was in stasis with the Master Sword, and Child Link One isn’t bound by time or any of its laws for that matter.
Subscribed! Sorry bro didn’t realize I wasn’t lol
Third time line theory where hero falls. He didn't have things set up for his success and had a harder time. Goes and saves termina and learns the song where he uses it to destroy the windmill creating a split time line where windmill is destroyed in the future and the man knows the song. He proceeds to fail and be defeated by Ganon and the next link in the new cycle learns the song from the windmill man and begins the time loop.