Why the Zelda Timeline is IMPOSSIBLE
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
- The Legend of Zelda has many... legends. From Skyward Sword to Ocarina of Time to Breath of the Wild, and they're all connected together by way of a timeline! Unfortunately for those of us who care, the timeline itself is a biiiiit.... problematic. Lemme explain.
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Other Timeline Theories:
How the Master Sword Solves the Timeline • How the Master Sword S...
Ganondorf's Timeline • Ganon's Timeline EXPLA...
Song of Storms Paradox • The Song of Storms Par...
The Abandoned Timeline • The Abandoned Timeline...
The Perfect Timeline • The Perfect Timeline (...
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00:00 - What's this about? Do I Hate Zelda? No.
01:10 - The Fastest Zelda Timeline Explanation In The World
02:31 - Reason 1
04:37 - Reason 2
06:01 - Reason 3 + Ending - Hry
Which Zelda game is your ABSOLUTEFAVORITEOFALLTIME?
Phantom hourglass since it was my first
Gotta say Twilight Princess. Wind Waker close second.
yes is the answer to this question
I like ocarina of time
no doubt Ocarina Of Time
I see the three timelines as the outcomes for each of the Goddesses; The Fallen Timeline is when Power took control, The Child Timeline is when Wisdom sent Link back to reclaim his childhood and strategized better against Ganondorf, and The Adult Timeline is when Courage had to be found in a new world.
This is very similar to my own theory. 😊
I can get behind this.
i see not just that but an idea i had today is that each goddess is a goddess of time potentially in a different form wielding a different form of time travel seasons ages secrets undefined due to lack of game and perhaps a 4th unified one related to the triforce and their unified works
seems a stretch
I love this theory!!!!!!
I still believe that, unfortunately (from my perspective), Nintendo is intentionally trying to all but eliminate the timeline from Breath of the Wild onward. By making it impossible to determine its placement and stating that the series will follow BotW in both gameplay style and chronology, I have a feeling Nintendo intends to leave the series' history prior in the past and effectively reboot the franchise in such a way that it is basically a new IP again, akin to how Konami left the old Castlevania "canon" in favor of a new one that starts from scratch while retaining familiar imagery.
This would be ideal. Linear timelines are vastly superior to time travel / multiverse stories.
Aonuma said he wants to move past the timeline, as it limits their creativity. He believes it is up to us to determine the placement of the games.
But I want loreeeeee
But I want loreeeeee
But I want loreeeeee
My biggest gripe with the Zelda time line is that a bunch of games (mainly the classics) are pushed off into a "what if" scenario instead of being definitively canon, so I'm glad you addressed that.
That's only if you truly see it as a what if though. I mean sure when you die it's a game over but it doesn't really take much to understand what would happen if you did lose to Ganondorf in the castle since it was a battle for the triforce. At least the timeline tried to keep it consistent with the fact that Ganon in ALttP is the same one in OoT.
What if Link had an adventure we didn't witness that takes place before we take control of Link at the beginning of Ocarina of Time? Maybe Ganon ended up defeating Link in that run, but Zelda somehow managed to use the Ocarina of Time to send Link back to the beginning before he actually died. To the people living in that sequence of events, it would be no different from Link actually dying. It's been a while since I've actually played Ocarina of Time, so I'm not 100% sure if what I said would actually make sense.
@@corvus9359 This perhaps what Nintend intended, and there is evidence to support this idea, but it does not change the fact that they went about presenting the concept rather poorly, and it is very contrived, in a way that feels unnecessary. It would be far more natural for Nintendo to say that Ocarina of Time is not related to A Link to the Past, which is consistent with the development of the game, and consistent with what is actually reflected from the in-game lore of these games. This would solve 70% of the problems in the chronology, quite honestly. Yes, this would mean having two disconnected chronologies, but I would be fine with Nintendo leaving it up the fans to guess what the actual connection between the two should be, and then later on, adopting the theory that is most consistent with the games' lores.
I mean, they can't be canon since The Ocarina of Time exists. Link _didn't_ fail, after all. That said, I really, _really_ don't see why the "fallen hero" timeline isn't the adult timeline. It's exactly the same except Link is dead instead of sent to the past. So there shouldn't be any difference. The Fallen timeline obviously should therefore should, in fact, be the adult timeline.
The timeline split wasn't caused by the separation of the Ocarina and Master Sword. It was caused by Zelda sending Link into the past before he drew the Master Sword. Link then chooses to leave the sword in its pedestal. This maintains the Sacred Realm's seal and in turn ensures Ganondorf cannot get the Triforce.
And yet for some reason in Twilight Princess he still got the Triforce of power even though the sacred realm was sealed.
@@rickrogan2355 so, I think that there is an answer to this problem that you have pointed out. Perhaps the Triforce is not inherently affected by time, due to it being transcendent of the physical realm because it is the essence of the golden goddesses. When Zelda sends Link back in time, the Triforce of Courage could have been granted to Link from the timeline that he is in to maintain the balance between timelines, as is evident by the Triforce mark being on Link's hand after being sent back and why the Triforce of Courage is still in the adult timeline.
Of course, there's still one detail about this solution that may not make sense at first. If Link had his new timeline's Triforce piece, then that would mean that the Triforce should be split up. Well, if we go by TP, then we know that Ganondorf got his Triforce piece as a "divine prank". But what if Zelda sending Link back in time didn't matter much cuz the Triforce trancends time? Though in a different timeline, the destined wielders of the Triforce were already set in place, which is why Link still has his, why Ganondorf got his, and why Zelda has hers in the events of TP. Because the Triforce was split up in the first place, time would repeat itself and the wielders would be forever destined to wield them regardless of timeline.
@@ninkstheultimate3376 would explain a lot, even it being a "Devine prank" because the goddess of time.
@@rickrogan2355 yeah basically, at least that's how I see it
I usually agree with this, but then there's the problem of if she sent him back to that point, what about the moment right at the end where he goes back to see Zelda again.
At this point, she'd ridden away from the castle with Impa because of Ganondorfs attack on the town. And it said after this that Hyrule attacked Ganondorfs men by surprise BEFORE he could attack them, but he'd already attacked them at that point..
The only solution is that she sent him way back to before that, but then how would he have opened the door of time without her throwing him the ocarina? If she sent him back before that, link would just be stuck in the master sword chamber forever..
I’d love to see you make your own timeline from scratch and see if you could better tie the games together! That’d be super cool!
Yes 👁👁
Good idea
I haven't made my own Zelda timeline in nearly a decade.
Funny enough, the last timeline I made before Hyrule Historia came out was actually extremely close to the one in the book. The only thing in that fanmade timeline I made that was different from HH was that the downfall timeline games were placed as a continuation of the child timeline (since split timeline theorists only ever thought about the 2 way split until HH came out). The games were still in the exact same order as HH's timeline otherwise.
Not a high bar to clear.
I agree
I believe that all of the games in the legend of Zelda series are just that: a legend. They’ve been retold so many time by the time of botw that nobody really knows anymore.
BotW really makes this feel like it could be the case. Though I wish Nintendo would just come out and say it lol
@@BanditGames it's in the name, dawg
I’m pretty sure they said that all Zelda games before BotW are the “Era of Myths” and that the new era was the “Era of the Wild”. I could totally be misremembering but I thought I remembered reading an official statement that all Zelda games before BotW were actual legends being retold over the centuries
@@TheLittlestDuck in the book it says the timeline isn't even concrete
@@TheLittlestDuck creating a champion (the botw art/lore book) doesnt say anything about the past games, the era of myth is referring to the events of the ancient past (before 10,000 years ago) that we hear about now and then in botw and in the book. Of course, this is where the older games would fall, but the book is saying that the info about the distant past is what's unreliable, not the games themselves.
Edit: not to say that the literal legends theory is invalid or disproven.
I think the thing to remember is that Nintendo seems to be actively disinterested in making a unified timeline. One was established alongside Skyward Sword, and then the next major release immediately disregards it and has no clear spot in history. Some games clearly line up with each other, but the idea of lining them all up in one unified sequence of events is futile since they just weren't built that way.
It can still be a fun fanon exercise, but if you do that I think you have to make peace with the fact that it'll always be a bit wobbly.
In the end, this is true. Timeline is more fanon. Even Nintedo acknowledges we're going to use our imagination. If Nintendo endorses and takes seriously a timeline, they'd be limiting themselves and their creativity in future games. The Legend of Zelda will always be just that. A Legend. And so, a bit wobbly.
Each Zelda is it's own universe, the same way with Final Fantasy games.
@@baifomet6425 no it’s not
How does skyward sword create a unified timeline if it’s the first game in that timeline
@@sebastianuglyrat why not? It makes sense. It's a legend after all. Simmilar story with simmilar elements retold and reinterpreted. They don't need to be conneceted through a solid timeline.
Personally, I believe that the downfall timeline is the original, "non-intervention" timeline. Link gathers the three stones, gets to the Temple of Time, can't open it, Ganon kills Link, and takes the Triforce. This isn't an "if" scenario, this happens every single time.
The other two timelines are the result of introducing the Ocarina of Time to this Hyrule. If the Ocarina itself came from a different time-e.g. a Sheikah relic carved from a Timeshift Stone-then it could have been brought to this time period specifically to allow the Hero of Time to have access to the Master Sword chamber, to be sealed in it, safe from Ganondorf, for the duration of its timeshift.
And I think a big point of Skyward Sword was clarifying how a lot of this worked, for us.
That's a really clever interpretation!
I like the the theory that the fallen timeline is the original/destined timeline. It seems like an outlier at first because a fallen timeline could be created at any point in any of the games. However, the fallen timeline could actually be the original timeline that is supposed to happen, but Link ends up prevailing and changing his own destiny, creating two new timelines where he was victorious.
Another point, which isn’t really great support but is interesting regardless: every Zelda game that released before Ocarina of Time is part of the fallen timeline. This is kinda cool because if you take into account this theory then Ocarina of Time could be seen as what’s supposed to be the tragic backstory to those games and the origin (kind of) of Ganondorf, but actually ends up turning the tables and creating the victory timelines.
if link couldn’t open the door of time then how does ganon
because they say IN ocarina of time that he waited for link to open the door so he could get inside
@@yourehereforthatarentyou Yeah, I was thinking that too, so hotfix. The intervention is Link being pulled into the realm of sages to age up, instead of losing to Ganondorf even with the master sword.
This also suggests that with a Time Stone artifact you could create Time distortions and make things jump timelines. It is even used by the Hero of the Sky to save a dragon and prevent its death , so it is alive in the Future.
This suggests it is possible someone could prevent the Hero of Time from dying when he was "supposed to". Further, this means these distortions could "move" when a game happens.
There is also the thing that happens where Child Zelda vaguely remembers the Adult Timeline despite not being in that Timeline anymore. This is the reason Zelda gives Link the Ocarina despite it being a Hyrule Family treasure.
I do think the timeline is perfectly functional, however the downfall timeline is just a what if scenario. I personally believe it was just made to fit the first couple of Zelda games into the timeline somehow.
This is absolutely the correct answer, I’m sure. As the series lore developed over the years, I have no doubt the devs realized that “whoops, the older ones can’t really fit with these newer ones after OoT anymore with how we set up TP and TWW, guess we’ll just throw it in a third timeline randomly where they can all go.” And considering it follows what is an alternative version of OoT, that does literally by definition make it a “what if” scenario, like you said. However, we do know that somehow it is nonetheless still a canonical one. And what is a “what if” scenario that actually really happens but a parallel universe? Which works perfectly well considering we already know the Zelda series does in fact take place in a multiverse (see Termina, the World of the Ocean King, Lorule, etc.)
No the what if scenario are the child and adult timelines. Remember Link to the Past came before Ocarina of Time and in the game's past it is stated that a Hero lost to Evil. That is why we only have what 3 games in the child and adult timelines while the downfall timeline has the most games plus the game the started the series.
@@goldliger1976 Interesting point, except we actually have a video game in which we get to experience the events that lead to the Child and Adult Eras, and its full, canonical ending is only in line with those stories and contradicts the backstory of ALttP, so we can’t call that a what-if scenario, since it is the only one we get to actually and canonically play through. The alternative ending exists only in the offscreen backstory of ALttP as an unseen alternate ending to OoT, one which the official timelines even frame as “*if* the hero is defeated…”
It is a bit of a shame that all the original games of the series have been relegated to an apparently secondary continuity, but I don’t see any other way to classify it when the primary sources themselves, the games, do in fact explicitly play out the Child and Adult Eras as the primary continuity we get to experience through them when playing through chronologically. Consigning the OG games to a parallel universe was probably the only thing they could do, though, as the lore continued to evolve over the years.
@@ninjagamer1359 I like to see it as the reverse, as in "looks like the newer games don't fit with new ones so let's throw it into another timeline". I see it this way because it's on new games to fit in with previous lore, not the other way around.
It's also kinda weird to imply the original games are somehow less canonical just because more games fit in with a single game, though the last game doesn't fit with any of those.
That said, the reason why it's relegated to a "what-if" is because a game with the hero losing wouldn't go over well, which is necessary for LttP to happen, so OoT didn't set it up to keep the lore consistent. Then again, it's hard to think of a game that would make it work since the hero would have to lose. Maybe a game where you can play as both Link and Zelda so there are two protagonists and after the final battle with Link, Ganon gets the killing blow and Zelda must finish the job with the sages to seal him, but that could be hard to do.
Honestly, if people don't like a what-if, maybe the hero that loses is a different Link we don't see rather than the Hero of Time. The Master Sword must still make it to the Lost Woods and in OoT it stays in the Temple of Time so that'd have to be explained. Perhaps a canon novel or comic series would be able to tell the story instead, which might be easier than a game. This way, they could show another hero and another adventure, just one where he loses and the sages seal Ganon.
@@ninjagamer1359 Yeah but that game is a literal what if. Which is why after 3 games post OoT Nintendo has not made a new game in those timelines.
I stand by my theory that the Downfall Timeline is the original timeline. At some point following the events of Zelda 2, someone used the newly restored Triforce to alter the outcome of the battle between Ganon and The Hero of Time. This erased the Downfall Timeline and created the Adult and Child Timelines. The inhabitants of the Downfall Timeline were then thrown into a purgatorial existence which blended elements of all three timelines. This purgatory is where Breath of the Wild takes place.
THATS WHAT IM SAYIN
There's really no way to argue this couldn't happen either with the Triforce being as powerful as it is.
Yeah! Though I think that wish could happen after Link defeats Ganon in Alttp and touches the Triforce. How the same Ganon is defeated in the present by the Hero of Legend and with that wish, gives the Hero of Time another chance to defeat Ganondorf in the Past. That wish is the ¨Link to the Past¨ that changed everything.
Omg we have the same theory!!
I do believe that Link initially lost in oot and was given another chance after the Triforce was brought back by AOL's Link into the Royal family! I don't necessarily believe in BOTW being a purgatory but rather another chance to Hyrule where bits of the other timelines were put in this one!
This makes too much sense
Well apart from the purgatorial Botw that's a little too far
As previous videos have implied:
* The "fallen timeline" should be the "abandoned timeline", covering the gap in time left from when Link first grabbed the sword and let Ganondorf into the Sacred Realm (giving us the three timelines: one where Link stopped Ganon as an adult, one where Link & Zelda stopped Ganon as children, and one where Link wasn't around to stop Ganon, allowing him to succeed).
* The original Hyrule Warriors is canon and takes place at the end of the three timelines, merging them back into one.
* Breath of the Wild takes place after Hyrule Warriors.
Simple & easy.
One wrinkle is that Hyrule Warriors is of questionable status in terms of its canonicity. And even if we allow Hyrule Warriors to have some level of canon, it ends by isolating the timelines from each other yet again. Maybe some elements leech through, but as I remember they don't genuinely "merge" in any meaningful capacity.
@@onijester56
Such is a wrinkle, but given it's nature I'd say it'd make sense to be "temporary canon" perhaps. And the temporary merge could also be enough to set the timelines to 're-merge' properly down the line at some point (since at minimum the characters of each timeline would retain their memories).
Isn't hyrule warriors the same time as botw but without link falling for 100 years? That's still tens of thousands after the 3 timelines.
The "Fallen timeline" isn't the "abandoned" timeline, because it's the timeline where the hero is specifically *killed* by Ganon. Ganon takes the Triforce pieces from Zelda and Link's corpse, and is sealed away by the Sages as a "last ditch effort." Link being defeated is extremely important in this timeline, because if Link never shows up, Ganon cannot take his Triforce piece, and Ganon only possesses two pieces of the Triforce, not all three. This would mean that, based on speculation, the Imprisonment War that occurs long after Link's defeat/death would be FAR less damaging to Hyrule due to Ganon's lack of the Triforce of Courage and from there not being any Hylians traveling to the Dark World in search of the full Triforce and subsequently being transformed by Ganon into additonal soldiers for his army, and result in either the Seven Sages' powers not waining or waining far later than normal due to the Hylian bloodline not being as heavily damaged by the war, altering the events of A Link to the Past if not outright erasing the events.
@@nyetloki
No. The mechanical sequel to Hyrule Warriors (Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity) is the one that takes place in the immediate BotW timeline just before Link was put to sleep.
We don't know when exactly the original Hyrule Warriors theoretically takes place. All we know is that characters from all the games that existed at the time were involved in the fighting in Hyrule Warriors (and the big bad of Hyrule Warriors was manipulating time and smashing the timelines together).
I’ve always seen the Downfall timeline as the only timeline that we follow that features Link’s death.
It isn’t that other similar timelines don’t exist, it’s just that that the is only downfall timeline we see.
I personally like the theory that the fallen timeline would be better described as the abandoned timeline. At the end of Ocarina of Time, Zelda sends Link back to *before* Link met her, so that they could stop Ganandorf before he even began. What then happened to the timeline Link came from? Easy, similar to the adult timeline, the fallen, or abandoned timeline is one where Link went poof. But this time, he went poof before Ganandorf was defeated, granting him the win needed for that timeline to happen.
I approve this comment 😁
There's an interesting theory regarding the placement of the Fallen Timeline. A channel called Nintendoblackcrisis suggests that a split timeline occurs in the Minish Cap. If you don't rescue Zelda quick enough in the final level, we get a really unique Game Over in which Vaati wins.
From that outcome, Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure occur. In the latter game, we see a different origin for Ganon and we learn how he obtained his iconic trident. And from there, all the games that feature Blue Ganon and his weapon, the trident, take place in this timeline. I'm missing plenty of details so I recommend checking out the video.
@@BanditGames What If Botw Is The BEGINNING Of The Downfall Timeline Because Link Fell 100 Years Ago
Think About It Man
It's good in theory, but I don't see how it's any different than the problems mentioned by Bandit about the canonical third timeline. There are still only two timelines created by the ocarina-master sword split. Child link stops Ganondorf before he gains the Triforce and becomes Ganon, other child Link is sealed in the Sacred Realm for 7 years and becomes adult Link, stopping him after. There can be no "abandoned" Link any more than there can be a "Ganon victorious" timeline. This sounds like it would be a condition of "if the Sages didn't wake Link up" alternate reality because that's the only way there can be an "abandoned" child Link. This theory sounds more like a probable explanation for how the third "timeline" happens, but it's still not truly a possible timeline as much as it's creating a multiverse. This option still bothers me.
I do think it's what they are probably thinking though, as it would be a condition created by the Spirit of the Hero itself, a decision being made in that moment in the Spirit Realm to seal away or not to exist at all, meaning it would at least be a reality that the gods had a hand in creating.
its hilarious how fast he can change his mind in "The Abandoned Timeline" video he said it is fully functional and now we're here in this video and said its not
If I remember, the downfall timeline was originally explained within fan theories a little differently, and i prefer this over the “Game Over” explanation.
The Downfall Timeline was explained as the one Link left by pulling the master sword and transporting into the future. The Adult Timeline was the one Link appeared in during the future, confronted Ganon, and left. The Child Timeline was the one Link returned to and lived out his childhood days. Basically, by using time travel, he couldn’t return to the original timeline he left, leaving it unguarded as Ganondorf took over.
I hope that makes sense, but I remember this being the predominant theory before Hyrule Historia, and it still makes sense to me over using “What If’s” to motivate chronology.
Because yeah - allowing “what if Link just had a game over” allows for an infinite number of “what if” scenarios, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I don’t think the timeline necessitates using hypotheticals to create universes. I think the mechanics of a limited time travel system in one game is enough.
That said, I still don’t know where to place Botw either. I do like the idea of using Hyrule Warrior’s timeline merge to explain it, but who knows. Maybe the sequel will provide some more answers.
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. I think most players assume they were sent back to the Child timeline as they were playing, but we know that didn't happen, because the game has us meeting Zelda for the first time in the credits. So, we effectively abandoned the original child timeline that would have led to the Adult timeline without a Link, while still creating the Adult and Child timelines.
So, essentially, in the process of Zelda using the Ocarina of Time to break the timeline into Adult and Child timelines, she also accidentally makes an Abandoned timeline.
I think the timeline discrepancy is from how at endgame, Zelda transports Link to BEFORE he pulled the mastersword to talk to Zelda in the courtyard while Mastersword travel ports him to AFTER that point. If at any time Adult Link returns the sword, which technically he has to for WW to pick it up, he would be ported to HIS child timeline in the Ganon timeline which would become the defeated timeline. Right?
Actually, now that I think on it some, Link MUST return the sword for any future timeline to make sense. In the scenario above, Adult Link returns the sword, the world continues on with the blade set and WW continues. In the child timeline the sword is never picked up and the world continues and MM continues. Adult Link's childhood has to exist so he MUST have Ganondorf attack or his timeline falls apart. BUT, when Adult Link returns the sword, he could conceivably be ported to his child timeline to the point AFTER young Zelda is run off by Ganondorf. If at that point he were to try and save Hyrule, again, he would be forced to do so without the Master Sword as the Sword has to stay returned from a timeline perspective because if he were to pull it as this child incarnation, he would technically be ported to post Adult Link timeline and not 'pre Ganon battle' timeframe. In essence this would create the Fallen Timeline wouldn't it? This technically makes logical sense if a bit confusing.
The "downfall" split didn't happen after OoT but before. FSA is actually that game's parallel to the events of OoT, but with Vaati and the Four Sword still around.
Proof:
- FSA and LttP have identical maps.
- FSA and LttP both have the Quake and Bombos medallions
- FSA would be the only non-"downfall" appearance of the Trident of Shadows. Instead, placed before LttP, it's simply the origin of Ganon's signature weapon for that timeline.
- 7 human maidens, 7 human sages.
- The Zora are feral, like in all the "Downfall" games.
- Ganon keeps the Four Sword in his pyramid in the Gameboy Advance version of LttP, like he kept the Light Arrows in his castle in WW.
- Just where the heck were the FS and Vaati chilling out while all the Child Timeline stuff was happening?
- Kaepora Gaebora appears in both of these games.
- The Mirror of Twilight was destroyed in TP, it can't show up again in the very next game in the timeline!
- FSA contains several of the same structures as FS that show up in none of the other games, such as the Tower of Winds, and the Sanctuary of the Four Sword.
- And more, but you get the idea. There is *no* connection between FSA and TP that would suggest one follows the other, or even that they occur in the same timeline!
This means the timeline split before OoT, likely before FS, and even likely before MC, and suddenly things begin to make sense.
my head hurts
I believe BotW is supposed to actually unite the "timelines" into a new cohesive "universe".
That's why you have enemies, themes, places, "characters", and landmarks from ALL OVER the timeline in one giant world.
If the timelines are cemented as ALL being canonical, then they must all exist somewhere/somehow in the Land of Hyrule, yes?
This would explain why you can find rock salt everywhere-described IN BotW as being from a "vast ancient ocean", or the Leviathan skeletons seemingly belonging to the ancient leviathans from the different games, or even how Gannondorf can return in BotW 2: ?...
Just say Hyrule Warriors reunited the timeline, since it has all the timelines.
I'm 99.999% positive they have officially confirmed what you said
Enter: Age of Calamity.
@@chrisdealemania Not canonical.
@@Asdeer101 Not canonical.
The timeline was a popular fan thing before they decided to "canonize" it; they obviously don't take it too seriously. 1) BotW can take place after some unifying event as mentioned, so not really an issue. 2) The timeline moving one game and giving people an out so they don't feel slighted in their interpretation of the timeline also isn't really an issue. 3) The three branches is the only issue, and probably what the video should have been about exclusively:
Foremost, Zelda likes its threes. That's probably the main reason there are three branches, along with each triforce piece holder having their "own" timeline, for thematic purposes. Tabling that, you're too dismissive about how Link can return to the past without making a new timeline, in hand-waving it off. That alone makes no sense. If it was so simple, he could have just as easily returned to even further in the past to undo the mistake of opening the Temple. It's all gameplay convention of course, considering the main reason for using time travel at all was just so Link could have a slightly nicer body. When Link was returned further back than he left by adult Zelda, we do end up with the credits timeline, the adult, post-Ganon fight timeline, and the post-Temple child timeline. That timeline may now be missing its Master Sword or its Ocarina of Time, if it's now been displaced by returning Link to a different timeline. Once the Link that is in that child timeline grows up naturally, he would have no Master Sword to fight the Ganondorf that's still there, ensuring an eventual loss while the adult timeline that was saved via use of the Master Sword moves on. There's any number of ways of interpreting it to make sense, but point is, the main issue is the use of time travel at all. Salt shakers, etc.
is able to make a two paragraph long explanation about the themes of zelda timeline but can't understand the very basic concepts of naruto lol
Nintendo created and always dictated the timeline the fans just wanted clarity. AoL happened after LoZ stated in game and by Nintendo. Prior to ALttP they said it was a prequel to the series. Before OoT launched they stated that it is the earliest game in the series. After OoT but before WW was ever announced they said that "If you think about it OoT has two endings, One where Link goes back to his childhood and one where he killed Gannon but is gone.". MM is a direct sequel. WW is a direct sequel that creates the timeline split, before WW it could be assumed that the Adult timeline wasn't a thing or closed on itself. But because WW as designed by Aounoma directly calls out the split and absent hero creates the fractured timeline.
TP is obviously after OoT and MM with direct references.
At this point in the releases we knew OoT was the beginning and AoL was the end. SS was the next game that shook things up by establishing time travel in the origins of the whole universe and forcing Nintendo to try and fix the mess they made. The theorists just wanted answers to the info that Nintendo put in front of them and told them. They could have solved the problem by just saying each game is an anthology unless it directly references another game.
I think they really wanted BotW to be a soft reset but chickened out and tried to fit it in, failed and came up with the answer that it fits at the end wherever you want.
Link only rewinds to when he pulls out the master sword because he never made contact with it before that, and If something is rewinding the universe based on the contact with two other objects, those being Link and the pedestal, then it can't rewind the universe past when Link first came in contact with the master sword. also you got the adult and child timelines mixed up at the end.
@@randomt800kiddo2 neither did the author, keep coping
@@garbagelmao2730 your username describes what you are
Personally my thoughts on this are that the downfall timeline is created by the only time in the game that link actually needs to return to the past. When Ganon blocks off the the temple in the gerudo desert, this is the only time that it is actually necessary to travel back in time, so when you do you leave the current timeline to go to the past, but the timeline you return to is a different one then you left, this leaving Ganon to rule unopposed. Then you return to a completely different timeline which then is fractured at the end of the game into the adult and child timelines.
The entire game of OoT takes place in the Adult Timeline. The Child Timeline doesn't come into existence until the end of the game. The only other possible time for the 3rd timeline to be created is actually in Skyward Sword when Link lays the Master Sword to rest and the Gate of Time is destroyed by Impa.
@@hintonempire1178 See the thing is that Ocarina of Time is a what if game. In Link to the Past it is told that a Hero lost to the Evil Ganon in the past. Lost of people tend to forget that a game franchise's timeline starts from it's beginning not the timeline's beginning.
@@goldliger1976 I don't know where you got that information but it is not true in the slightest. Nowhere in LttP does it ever say that the hero lost to Ganon in the past.
Also, OoT is not a what if game. It has a very definitive conclusion.
@@hintonempire1178 except that it doesn't, as the game literally starts with Link as a child who grows into an adult when he's sealed in the Sacred Realm for several years. From that point onward he is an adult, though could undo the passage of time during his sealing by replacing the Master Sword, which he did at least once.
@@hintonempire1178 Then you never played LttP because if you read the text on the pedestal for the Master Sword it literally says it.
In my perspective, Ocarina of Time is the catalyst for a Dragon Break, explaining the timeline split and the mess of information given about Hyrule’s past in BotW when people theorize where on the timeline it goes.
Skyward Sword also has a dragon break within its story itself due to the circumstances pertaining to the defeat of Demise.
A dragon break is where the timestream fragments into infinite split timelines before stitching itself together into one singular timeline with all outcomes of all splits being true, though contradictory. This can explain Demise being defeated in the past and sealed in the Master Sword in the past while simultaneously being crushed by the power of the Triforce.
Dragon Breaks are super cool but That's the wrong game series. I love me some Elder Scrolls but using Elder Scrolls to explain Zelda doesn't really work unless we could definitively tie the stories together.
I think they should do a remake of OoT, this time with three different endings serving as the origin of each timeline.
A version with multaple routs in time thru game play would be interdzting. Like you fight Ganondorf earliar in the game. If you win he get's sealed away and you the game the game plot goes a diferent course till he revives. If you lose you are basicley an outcast hunted by Ganondorf who now rules Hyrule and after creating or joining a resistance you eventually defeat Ganon. A split timeline game could be fun. Maby kinda tdicky to stash the needed content into a game but verry interesting.
The "downfall" split didn't happen after OoT but before. FSA is actually that game's parallel to the events of OoT, but with Vaati and the Four Sword still around.
Proof:
- FSA and LttP have identical maps.
- FSA and LttP both have the Quake and Bombos medallions
- FSA would be the only non-"downfall" appearance of the Trident of Shadows. Instead, placed before LttP, it's simply the origin of Ganon's signature weapon for that timeline.
- 7 human maidens, 7 human sages.
- The Zora are feral, like in all the "Downfall" games.
- Ganon keeps the Four Sword in his pyramid in the Gameboy Advance version of LttP, like he kept the Light Arrows in his castle in WW.
- Just where the heck were the FS and Vaati chilling out while all the Child Timeline stuff was happening?
- Kaepora Gaebora appears in both of these games.
- The Mirror of Twilight was destroyed in TP, it can't show up again in the very next game in the timeline!
- FSA contains several of the same structures as FS that show up in none of the other games, such as the Tower of Winds, and the Sanctuary of the Four Sword.
- And more, but you get the idea. There is *no* connection between FSA and TP that would suggest one follows the other, or even that they occur in the same timeline!
This means the timeline split before OoT, likely before FS, and even likely before MC, and suddenly things begin to make sense.
In my opinion, the confusion in the Zelda timeline just adds to the mystery and beauty of the series~ It's why I keep coming back to this game xD
Still, great video, Bandit!
Same, I think it's cool to have to fit things together. I always change my mind on what theories I like the most. In the end, I think that's the purpose of the timeline, just to have fun with it. The developers leave things vague for that reason and for their own creative freedom, which in the end I think is a good choice. Even if I can get salty some times lol
The confusion in the Zelda timeline was created by "experts" like this video's creator. Nintendo never needed to create a timeline, but they did so because of pressure from fans. There should be no timeline. Each game is and should be considered its own entity.
@@FilthyCasual268 Most of the games are direct sequels to zelda games before them.
The triforce is the object that creates balance in the universe of Zelda. the moment it split in three was the moment that the world was destined to go three different routes; a route where the power of Ganon triumphs, another were the courage of the hero saves the day, and the last one where wisdom about Ganondor's plan is the way to conquer the evil. Even if the downfall timeline was an afterthought, it is consistent with the overall series motif of the number three. If you wanna break spacetime, there is no better candidate than the triforce itself
The same world can't go in 3 different directions at the same time, the "motif" connection was merely a coincidence.
@@biglewis7 the world was destined to go three different routes. which is what actually happens in the story. we have three different timelines. the only way to make the downfall timeline real as opposed to just a what if scenario is appeal to the magic of the powerful triforce
I think the timeline is fun to think about especially when there's continuity between games, and as the book says the point is to speculate how they fit together. It is called the _Legend_ of Zelda after all, the events of most games have become legend in other ones. But it's silly to get stuck up over what's canon or not and whether that makes sense. But we're gamers, getting stuck up about things is what we do.
I've always hated the "downfall" timeline, ever since it was announced in that encyclopedia. It just implies that every game over screen, in every game, creates its own "timeline", and I agree with Mr Bandit that it makes those more of an alternate "reality" instead. The fan theories about the timeline before when it was believed to just be 2 timelines were always better imo haha
The two theories I have about this revolve around which timelines are special, the Downfall timeline as a result of the Triforce dealing with time destabilization creating one of Courage (child) and one of Wisdom (adult), or my favorite is that the Ocarina was never supposed to be in Hyrule at all and the downfall timeline was the original, but the Ocarina was somehow introduced into the past such that Link and Zelda were able to save Hyrule and created two timelines as a result.
Personally I'd love the downfall timeline to destroy Hyrule and the rest of the universe only for its last survivor Zelda to send the Ocarina of Time (which she creates) back to the past as far as possible. That would link all three together
Why is that an issue tho? Its just that it happens to be the only *relevant* timeline in which a "game over" happened. Its not that others don't exist. They just don't get seen. Since there is no relevance to the games in all the others, why include them?
Question to ponder: How would the Sages know that Link wouldn't be ready to face Ganon as a child unless they had already seen that happen in another timeline? What if they only added the timeskip mechanic to the Master Sword after rewinding a timeline that existed before the two we see in OoT?
We know that Link can defeat powerful enemies even as a child so the Sages in the zeroth timeline could have assumed the same would happen here. OoT might represent the first timeline in which he himself controlled the time travel and that change made all the difference.
This could also explain why the Sheika feel the need to test the hero: If he fails then they know to rewind time and try again. Perhaps the greatest strength of the Spirit of the Hero is that he doesn't repeat the mistakes made by his previous incarnations.
Answer: The Sages did not know that Link would get the Master Sword as a child. Zelda tells us this info when she reveals herself to be Sheik.
"but... something I could never expect happened... After you opened the door of time, the Master Sword sealed you away in the Sacred Realm..." - Zelda
This was something only the Master Sword on its own decided to do.
@@hintonempire1178 Good catch! Thank you.
So it's still possible that the Master Sword itself (that is to say, Fi) made the initial trip back in time after Link failed because it was there to see him fail. Perhaps even Link ordered it to travel back in time?
@@JamesHolder The thing about Link failing is that it never happened. Since no Zelda game ever mentions the Hero of Time failing, until that information makes it into a Zelda game, we don't have to consider it. Like Bandit said in his video, it simply isn't a thing.
The Downfall timeline being the game over scenario always made sense to me because 1 its a video game and 2 it magic. At any point in Links adventure he can be killed and whether it be by a redead outside the temple of time or by Ganon, any defeat will lead the world to the Downfall timeline. The Sages will step up and seal Ganon in the sacred realm, in the event that Link dies.
In every single game? The downfall theory can't really be disproven, but do you see how messy an explanation it is?
There's a MUCH better theory that I haven't seen discussed here yet: the split happened before OoT. The proof of this is that Four Sword Adventures is chock full of connections to ALttP that would make it the predecessor, and not OoT. FSA is actually that timeline's first appearance of Ganon, and happens parallel to OoT, in a world in which Vaati was a big threat.
I don't know where or when this split occurred, likely Skyward Sword, during that game's time travel, but possibly elsewhere. This lines up much more neatly than the idea that every time Link dies, a new timeline is born.
Here are some of the things that tie FSA to ALttP:
- The maps are identical, except the ice zone is where the marshes are later.
- Seven *human* sages, and seven *human* maidens.
- Ganon has a tendency of keeping what defeated him in the past close by (e.g. the Light Arrows in WW), and in the Gameboy Advance ALttP/FS he keeps the *Four Sword* inside his pyramid.
- These are the only two games in which the Quake and Bombos medallions appear.
- Where were Vaati and the Four Sword the entire time between FS and TP if it really does belong to the child timeline, and where is the Master Sword in FSA?
- FSA explains the origin of the Trident, a weapon that *exclusively* shows up in "Downfall" split. This would be the *only* non-downfall appearance of the Trident otherwise.
- The Gerudo are gone in TP, then suddenly back in FSA?
- The Mirror of Twilight was destroyed in TP, why does it show up in FSA?
- And a lot more things that just don't line up, when you think about it.
People tend to miss this because most people haven't played FSA. All the evidence is there, though. The third timeline split actually occurred before OoT.
@@Draezeth I was talking about Ocarina of Time specifically because that is the only game (that we know of) that caused a break in the timeline AND it leads directly into the downfall timeline.
@@rickrogan2355 That doesn't follow though. The circumstances of the two timelines you propose are completely different. It's nothing more than a hunch. My theory has evidence!
@@Draezeth Two timelines? What are you talking about? I was only talking about the Downfall Timeline that is tied into Ocarina of Time aftermath. I didn't mention the adult, child, or any other timeline.
This is the first video i've seen by you and it is superb, really appreciate the brevity and the thought put into it. Pretty engaging too, solid script and timing.
Great video! Been saying it for years, but that doesn't stop me from waiting for a proper explanation for that third timeline.
I kinda find it logical that Nintendo swapped Link's Awakening and the Oracle Games because that would explain Nigjtmare-Ganon's Combat Style better
Or they just wanted to eliminate any chance of link dying on the ocean, because before the timeline revision that was the last we saw of THAT link and that would be pretty grim. 😂😂😂
I think it's entirely because of the one line in the oracle games when zelda herself shows up. It's a poor reason imo tho.
@@voltrainer yeah like... din also reintroduces herself in linked oracle of ages right at the end of the game. She literally says "I am din, Oracle of season" or something. It's basically the same thing.
@@spicysquire3521 right. So even characters the game knowa ypu should remember are reintroduced as if you didn't know them. It's odd but it's not worth switching the entire order when it's very clear the oracle games were meant to be between alttp and la. The books are essentially fanfic, just officially published fanfic.
@@voltrainer my personal theory is that the developers of the oracle games wanted to connect them to link's awakening, but didn't consider a link to the past.
The most recent official stance on the timeline at the time (from Miyamoto himself) was OoT > ALttP > TLoZ > TAoL, with Link's Awakening being able to go "anywhere after Ocarina of Time" (I can pull up the quote if needed).
So, even if we as fans can infer through context that the developers of Link's Awakening intended for it to follow ALttP, perhaps that wasn't set in stone with the higherups (the timeline clearly hasn't ever been a big priority in the series), and so the Oracles developers just saw the official timeline and were like "hey, we can make it proceed Link's Awakening since it's an easy tie-in", and the higherups were all like "sure".
I do find to be notable the lack of references to ALttP itself, multiple characters in the game commenting on Link's triforce mark meaning that he was going to become a hero (seemingly implying that he wasn't one already), Zelda not recognizing Link; while these are not explicitly damning and can be explained or hand-waved without an insane amount of trouble, certainly seem to paint a picture to me that ALttP might not have been a consideration at the time. Heck, they might have even been intended to follow Zelda 2 (not the same Link, of course), but that would make this comment longer than it already is.
But yeah, I still think ALttP > OoS > OoA > LA works well enough and is much more satisfying than the alternatives. Even if the Oracles developers potentially didn't see ALttP as connected to LA (capcom moment?), LA's developers likely saw their game as connected to ALttP based on context clues and which games were out at the time.
Thank You so much Bandit for being my favorite youtuber! I love your zelda theories!😄
As far as the “If Ganon defeated Link” is concerned, I think this could easily be resolved to “When Ganon defeated Link” if we get a historical flashback in a Fallen Timeline game that shows Link getting defeated, therefore getting a concrete point in time. When it comes to all the other points in other games where he can be defeated, there are definitely alternate sets of events that take place after, we just don’t see them because no games have been made about them
Definitely fitting for an Imprisoning War game.
Tbh, I found the idea of having a merged universe very fitting. Like, it fits botw in perfectly and doesn't ruin any of the games. My only issue is that we are missing a simple cutscene that shows the gannondorf victory
Well theres the Game Over screen in I believe Zelda II that says something like “Ganon Wins” and you hear his evil laughter
@@MerkhVision game over screen not ending
I like to think that breath of the wild is a combination of all 3 timelines, because of the references to all the timelines
Nasci em 1986, junto com The Legend of Zelda. Quando joguei The Legenf of Zelda: A link to the past me apaixonei enormemente pela série. Um pouco mais velho - compreendendo melhor a estória do jogo, Ocarina of Time foi a maior surpresa que vivenciei no mundo dos jogos (o melhor jogo que, até então, poderia sequer sonhar em jogar).
Sempre que me esforçava para entender a conexão com os demais jogos, surgiam muitas dúvidas, mas nunca, em momento algum, a hipótese de que Link não sagrou-se vitorioso em Ocarina of Time. A ideia de diferentes heróis em diferentes épocas deixavam clara a hipótese de reincarnação, de um ciclo que englobava Ganon, Link e Zelda - cada um representando um elemento da criação do mundo pelas mãos das três deusas.
O "erro" que não permite uma linha do tempo coerente está na questão do herói derrotado. Ele poderia ser derrotado em qualquer momento, em qualquer saga, mas se isso criasse uma nova entrada na estória, não há linha do tempo em si. E, de volta em 1998, isso não tem o menor sentido. Quando é lançado Wind Waker (o melhor jogo que já joguei em minha vida, mas não tão transformador quanto Ocarina of Time) isso se torna ainda mais claro, a conexão com Ocarina of Time - e indiretamente com A link to the Past e os dois primeiros títulos. Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening, e os Oracles eram claramente spin offs.
Tentar juntá-los de forma coerente é arriscado, e tentar unificá-los através de uma "falha" do Herói apenas deixa mais difícil ser coerente - com o ciclo de reincarnação de Link, Zelda e Ganon a falha em si é sempre uma possibilidade, mas o mundo da falha em si representa um problema na linha do tempo.
It has to be three. In Hyrule everything is three. The Adult timeline is the Courage timeline (Hero braves challenges, conquers evil), the Child is the Wisdom timeline (planning and forewarning lead to Gannondorf being discovered and imprisoned), and the Fallen is the Power timeline (Gannondorf conquers all, an enormous war and the power of the sages is required to seal him).
You just completely blew my f****** mind and now make me question the childhood game that I love so much and the entire history behind it
I think the various timeline specifics (lynels, master sword in the lost woods, the leviathans, etc) imply that all of the timelines inevitably lead to the same stories happening until the final section in BotW.
I agree. I tried to explain in my long winded comment that in our universe we get events happening in the order of oot, child timeline, (fallen/adult, or adult/fallen) botw.
Another universe events might play out like: oot, fallen, (child/adult (or vice versa)), botw.
Another universe might get oot, adult, (child/fallen or fallen/child), botw.
Whichever way it plays out, it all leads to botw.
The editing of this video is phenomenal, so funny, lol. Great job.
Thank you so much for this video. I’m sure it takes a lot of Time but the content is great.
The office scene was awesome.
Bandit chew on this. What if that the broken master sword that we saw when Aonuma showed us a look at botw 2 let Demise and Fi (also Ghirahim) leave the blade and demise returns in botw 2 with Fi helping link in his journey.
There are many theories about that, and I believe Bandit has already commented on that.
Wasn't demise eradicated by the end of skyward sword though? I thought that's why impa had to watch the master sword for so long
@@spicysquire3521 No he was just sealed in the master sword left there to decay and maybe he died if his whole body had decade.
I like to think of the series as phases. The first phase had the first game and the sequel. Then they came out with a prequel and continued with that heroes story with links awakening. Link between worlds is kinda like a remake of link to the past so it’s not a big deal it’s just a new hero entirely, coming after link the the past. Then that phase ended as the series transition to a new format with 3D. Ocarina of time. After, it was split into two lines of games. The adult and child timelines ensued. Then a prequel came out to see the origins of the events that happened up until ocarina, skyward sword. Then this phase ended as a new one was reborn with BotW. So then BotW will have its sequel and I’m anxious to see what happens next. I do want “phase III” lore though so a prequel of BotW would be nice too. But ya. It’s not meant to connect every single game. I like to think of it in these phases.
I'm curious to see if BotW2 connects more explicitly to any game, but I agree especially with the older games. So far the attempts to connect the phases are more for peace of mind rather than necessity or developer intention, unless of course BotW2 changes that.
The sacred realm is like an alternate universe, when ganondorf goes in there to get the triforce, who's to say he didn't overpower rauru and kill link in there, took his ocarina and used to to change the timeline
My theory have more details than that, but to put it simple: 1- yes, there's a bunch of other timelines, we just don't happen to see them. 2- there is entities (triforce godesses, hylia, fi, you name it) taking care of the time, (kind of like TVA from the Loki TV show) so it's easy to see how they would keep it under control or even "prune" or merge different timelines when they see fit.
This is why I don’t like when stories mess with time 😩
I feel like most of the problems from the Zelda timeline stem from the fact that the developers priorities with the story shifted over time. What I mean by this is that I don't think they started taking the the story of the console game seriously until ocarina or maybe even wind waker. I also don't think they started taking the story of the handheld game seriously until phantom hourglass or maybe even Link between worlds. I do personally think that when they originally made the ending to ocarina they wanted the old 2D games to be in the adult timeline and the rest of the games to be in the child timeline. Majora's mask kept to this but then they made wind waker messing up that original idea so they were completely unsure about where to put the old 2D games which is why they literally just made the downfall timeline as a sort of rubbish bin. It was mostly made as a hasty decision to fix a huge plot hole. And this leads me to my stance on breath of the wild the timeline placement theory that I believe the most is that it's an inevitable outcome. I don't think it's a full on merge because based on the whole many worlds theory universes/timelines merging is physically impossible they can only split. I think the developers did this because they were getting tired of having to write around and patch up plot holes from decades ago so they decided to essentially make breath of the wild a soft reboot. This is shown by how they refer to the original Zelda games pre-breath of the wild as the era of myth which was 50,000 years before the first calamity and that was 10,000 years before breath of the wild. They made them so far removed from each other so that the old games could still matter yet not have much of an impact on the new ones. Funny thing is they actually had the opportunity to to fix the downfall timeline by adding a special game over sequence in the ocarina of Time remake I think they decided against doing this because of a how much they were rushing this game and b they wanted to stay true to the original. This leads me into another major timeline theory that I believe in proposed by lorule historian and Nintendo black crisis. It also hinges on this idea of a special game over it's to help explain some potholes in the four swords games because even though they were still thinking about the story they were probably being a bit more carefree with those games considering the first one was a side game in a remake and the second one was literally meant to just be a multiplayer Zelda game. The two major plot holes are the fact that despite the fact that ganondorf was killed in Twilight princess someone with the exact same name took his place and took the trident this was obviously because four swords adventures was made before Twilight princess and I guess they forgot to consider that game when making Twilight princess. The other plot hole is how in the opening to four swords adventure vatti is referred to as being sealed not killed which is what happens in the ending of the minish Cap and speaking of the minish Cap there's a special game over sequence during the whole Bell sequence at the end of the game where the final bell is on a timer and if it rings you get a special game over sequence a special game over sequence where it is implied that vatti has become too powerful to kill. Thus this fills in the plot hole from four swords adventure where vatti is talked about being sealed not killed. This could make it so that the downfall timeline is actually a split from the minish Cap not ocarina this would also make it how there are technically two ganondorfs but they're split across two different timelines. This would also explain how Gannon got the Trident in the downfall timeline because in a Link to the past it's never really explained however it was explained in four swords adventure.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk
Edit: two other minor plot holes I forgot to mention when you look at the sanctuary of the four sword in four swords and four swords adventure they look almost the same despite being so far apart in time from each other. This other plot hole doesn't really get fixed by the rewriting of the timeline it's just a dumb stupid naming oversight how the new hero of Hyrule (Link between worlds/triforce heroes) comes before the hero of Hyrule (Zelda 1 and 2). Considering that a Link between worlds is a sequel/remake of a link to the past it would make more sense to call him the new hero of legend. I think this was done because Hilda refers to Link this game as hero of Hyrule however I don't think this was done because this was the actual hero's name rather it was done to signify that link is from Hyrule and not lorule. What's wrong with them changing the name they've changed the name of the chosen hero to hero of the skies they've changed the name of the hero of trains to the hero of spirits and unrelated to any conventions they canonised tryiforce heroes when it was originally not meant to be canon at all. Someone unrelated fact I don't know if this is true but apparently link is 20 in triforce heroes making the new hero of Hyrule the oldest Link in any game since usually link only goes up to 17 or 18. Also speaking of non-cannon Zelda games I feel like a lot of people who believe the Hyrule warriors timeline merger theory have never played Hyrule warriors because in the ending of that game it shows all of the timeline specific characters and places disappearing and going back to their original timeline meaning that even if this game was Canon it wouldn't matter anyway. And age of calamity also was probably originally meant to be an actual telling of the events of the real calamity from breath of the wild but koi tecmo probably realized that that story would have been too boring and decided to make a fan fiction out of it instead thus adding another split to the rebooted timeline which was never supposed to have splits in the first place so that they could keep it simple.
Edit 2: forgot to mention when going on a name tangent that they also gave the hero of the four sword and the hero of light names when they originally didn't have any.
I like to think of it this way, the series is called the Legend of Zelda, which means all the games in the timelines are stories of the past. Breath of the Wild is supposed to be the game farthest in the future which references all three timelines. It's possible (in some way because they definitely do contradict each other) that these past games are simply just a legend as the title of the games say. Stories passed down through thousands of years to the point that some people just have different versions of these stories. One thing that could back this up is the fact that Ganon is still defeated in all three timelines. And something like Wind Waker having Hyrule being flooded and later resurface in Spirit Tracks could be explained as everyone remembering the land of Hyrule being destroyed in some way but no one remembering how exactly.
Either way, it seems like they want to ditch the idea of their being different timelines all together and just do some type of reboot for the series so they can start fresh with the series going forward
04:08 "The location of the Master Sword, that only occurs (...) in the fallen Timeline" except for TP, where you can find the Mastersword in the woods too.
We already have the hero of time…
Now we just need the hero of timelines!
Yes , FINALLY , thank you!
I've always known that the dead hero timeline was a dud.
Granted I thought this for different reasons , but your insights are much better.
FYI , Zelda Wild is part of it's own timeline called the "fusion timeline."
Where events , races , and even multiple versions of Ganon fuse together in THIS reality.
Making Phantom Ganon into something close to a force of nature , known as malice.
(And is also known as Calamity Ganon , if you didn't already know.)
P.S. If you want to keep track of head canon , there are tools you can use.
Campfire is good for keeping track of narratives , and other small details to this big story.
And World Anvil can handle the broad strokes like various maps , and fundamental logic.
Like Rupees , and the childish perception that money has magic powers.
They magically appear out of mom's credit cards , so they pop out of other objects too.
Loved your explanation of the OOT timeline split.
I also agree with the last reason you pointed out. How I saw it, the downfall timeline is actively a "what if" scenario and never happened.
What they could do to fix this, is have a spin off game like Hyrule Warriors where link dies to ganon, but have it got into either the adult or child timeline, and basically the games in that "timeline" would just be squeezed into there
When it comes to the Zelda Timeline, I'm starting to feel like the most accurate variant is the Doctor Who interpretation of the timeline - it's all just a big bowl of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.
I believe another issue is I’m only in one game!
Personaly I'm a fan of the theory that says the "fallen" timeline is actually the "abandoned" timeline, the timeline in wich Link rewinded time to after Ganondorf's atack to get in the Kakariko well and half of the desert temple; and where Naboru got kidnaped but not rescued (in other words the gameplay of young link after unlocking the mastersword).
After link defeated Ganondorf he was sent to before Ganondorf first atacked.
What hapened to the events after Ganondorf's betreyal in that "young link gameplay" timiline?
You can't erase a world like that. Matter cannot be destroyed let alone a time-frame.
It was as if Link was the one erased from that timeline (just like in the adult one). Without a hero it was a matter of time before Ganondorf took over, basically a defeat for the hero.
I can see where one can get a timeline with via, "Link has to go forward in time to save Nabooru; therefore, child timeline Nabooru is left hanging." but as is said in the video, Link isn't teleported through time but rather in torpor for 7 years, which implies that Nabooru's rescue will always happen-- the adult timeline doesn't begin as an adult, but rather after child Link meets Zelda and begins his quest for the other Spiritual Stones. The timeline splits with Link going back in time and choosing to out Ganondorf instead of undertaking Zelda's quest. The game pushes this direction both with urging the player to watch Ganondorf bow to the King through the window as Zelda tells you her dark visions, as well as with various characters in the Adult Timeline calling Zelda's choice (including Zelda herself at the end of the game) "foolish".
Basically, kidnapped Nabooru exists in the adult timeline, not in a separate one.
@@Gamingderpmonglers I didn't considered that every time you go back in time you go to the exact moment Link got in front of the master sword as if he never did but eventually will wich means he is in the adult timeline like you said. To explain myself better, from the perspective of someone just standing there indefinetly (like most NPCs) they would see Link coming over and over to the temple awkwardly walking to the sword and then going away for no reson.
Sorry I can't explain it better.
@@alejandroescartinmartinez6718 what you said is true, every time links goes to the sword he gets his knolege from the future and backs away before touching it, from the outside would look like he backs off for no apparent reason, we know that Fi doesnt let him grab the sword just because he is to young and small to propperly use the master sword(hinted by how he can't even use the hylian shield right) and link doesnt grab the sword because there is still somethings left to do in the past, this back and forth goes on until everything is ready and then link sleeps for 7 years, the thing is when link eventually grabs the sword and sleeps he gets a vision of ganondorf giving thanks for opening the door to the sacred realm, so there is a conundrum, was ganondorf aware of zelda's plan all along like he says or he was made aware because of all the back and forth link did as a child that blew the plan?
i mean young link only had to be able to do so much until at least 1 ganondorf minion would report a green tunic kid going around the temples and then returning to the temple of time constantly, ganondorf had the town at his control with inside help and guards on his side given how in one of the side streets there is one wounded guard that warns link about the castle battle but no other guard says anything about it
if he knew from the start it would be funny to imagine ganondorf in the shadows sitting waiting for link to take the master sword, only for link to back up and run away, come back later to the sword and back up again for no reason multiple times and ganondorf being blue balled every time link doesnt pull the sword jajaja
my hypotesis is that all the OoT game is the adult timeline as every time loop is closed, every time starts at young link and ends with grown up link as it should because link doesnt "travel" to the future he sleeps and grows normaly, the loop is broken by zelda making link go back again outside of the original closed loop to before link did all the side quest and before the very fist time he backed off, this made a world without the hero and the trifore of power shattered so when ganon broke from his seal there was no link to help(thank you, zelda you dumb bi-) so he won and WW flood happened, zora being from unsalted waters could not survive on the sea so living on land became rito somehow because fuck walking if i can't sweem i rather fly
now in the Child timeline where link was thrown back, link knows everything that happened, that zelda regretted the plan, what needs to be done to stop ganondorf and that he had the tryforce of courage, the way he came back made the triforce of courage go to link again and the remaining peaces go to zelda and ganondorf without them knowing yet, link now knowing all of ganondorf plots and that tap to the power of the triforce he could catch ganondorf minions and beat them without the need of the master sword, clensing the temples and saving the sages in the past himself without returning to hyrule town in a single swoop so ganondorf could not respond in time nor get outside help making him flee, ending on the garden of the credits meeting zelda after she could return
and now the "fallen" or "abandoned" timeline might be the adult timeline in a sense, the triforce is beyond time and space same as the master sword, so regardless of timelines zelda sending link back like that made the triforce separate before it should, OoT time travel was always a closed loop in itself without touching the triforce because it did not awaken until the last fight with ganon where all the 3 parts reunited and resonated with each other , what zelda did sending link back like that was not a loop but an straight rupture given that link did not followed the same steps, now think about the original adult timeline without the intervention of zelda, an "abandoned" timeline if you will, when ganondorf noticed about link going back and forth from the temple of time, because the triforce separated early around the first time link backs off the master sword, link doesnt know about and he continued his quest like in the game, both ganondorf and link are clueless until ganondorf get's close to link in the shadows and, then the triforce resonates, ganondorf knows what that means because that is what he wanted, but link doesnt know anything about it yet, so ganondorf realizes he has not need to enter the sacred realm anymore so just kills link there at the temple of time and gets the triforce of courage out of him, it would not be easy but without master sword and being still a child link loses, ganon in selebration destroys the temple of time forcing raoru to take the master sword and run, hyrule get's lost again but it is worse now with an even more powerful ganon, the zora go feral with the corruption of ganon in zora's domain and his useless king, on the run zelda shatters the wisdom triforce so ganon can't get it, time pases and then the first LoZ happens, it is stated this link came from outside and impa hires him to save what remains of hyrule(maybe because of the resemblance with link), raoru is the old man that gives the sword to that link, the triforce get's whole after ganon dies but now the triforce is on the human realm so that causes a lot of conflict
sorry for all the text, could not help myself lol
If Ganon kills link, he gets the Ocarina, goes back in time to kill link before anything happens, gets the triforce, mirror image from the real events if you win, ganon rules, downfall timeline is created ?
I saw this in another comment once and have since come to believe that the fallen timeline is not specifically if OOT link died to Ganon, but is rather the series of events that will befall any timelines should the hero of that time fail. So, technically, there's 2 timelines and one alternative reality for each timeline. The games from the fallen timeline will occur at whatever branching point marks where the hero failed
Yeah, the downfall timeline should either become the "forgotten timeline" like you proposed in the other video, or be integrated with the other ones.
The biggest issue i have with the "downfall" timeline is that the very first game in it flat out states in its backstory that no downfall actually took place. If one has access to A Link to The Past's instruction manual the events prior to the game are clearly laid out. Ganon finds the Triforce while wondering around with his band of magic thieves. the relic beckoned to the men promising to bring about the deepest desire of the one who held the mighty relic. Ganon mercs his entire bandit party and claims the Triforce for himself.
I don't think this is an issue because none of that information is ever stated in the game itself. Old game manuals are known for misprints (see: "Gannon") and canonical errors.
Even in the likely case that information was the intended truth at the time, many aspects of A Link to the Past's backstory were retconned during Ocarina of Time's development.
@@snuffles504 and besides, it can also be possible that the story told in the manuals could be seen as "legends", meaning that all the information from the story are either incomplete or were changed within the decades/centuries. So not everyting has to be taken seriously/as canonically as it should be
Remember a detail in Wind Waker? How they make boys wear the green garb on their 12th birthday?? Which was to honor OoT Link, who was actually 9/10 years old. But technically defeated Ganon at 16/17. Yeah something similar might have happened there too Specific info like that got lost over time.
@@ghoulchan7525 In a weird way you kind of made my point more solid. While it is true that no one knows how old the hero of time was when he slew ganon. it is also true that many people know how old the hero was when he started his journey. one could argue that the outset island tradition is more about the start of the hero's journey and less so about the end of it
@@ghoulchan7525 i think that even someone high placed at nintendo did confirmed that the age of the hero of time got lost during the centuries, hence why ww link is 12 while oot link started at 10. so yea it's completely possible that info got lost over time
In my opinion the downfall timeline is actually a dimensional split. Since Link to the Past/Triforce of the Gods occurred in a time before anything related to Ocarina of Time was even thought of. Yes Ganondorf got the Triforce and became Ganon, but that was because he found a portal to the Sacred Realm with his fellow thieves after doing much research. After walking in and beholding the awesome Triforce, he killed his followers and then touched it himself. He wished to rule the world. That wish warped the very nature of the Sacred Realm and it became a dark mirror of Hyrule. So Link to the Past and the games below it belongs on their own timeline.
There was a vid I watched, I don't recall who it was but one thing stuck with me all this time. Ganondorf does defeat adult link with the giant stone block in the spirit temple, but only going back in time does that change things. The hero of time was defeated, but can be conquered with the help of his younger self
Brooo, I've never gotten to a video a minute after it uploaded 😆😆
Well, looks like a solid theory! Let’s see, my favorite game has to be Twilight Princess. In my opinion, I love story and lore a little bit more than gameplay, so TP takes the podium. Keep going, Bandito!
(But, if we’re looking at gameplay, it’s gotta be botw.)
At some point nintendo basically said that it's timeline placement is up to the player's interpretation. I really like MatPat's theory that it happens after Hyrule Warriors. I've adopted that as "my interpretation", with Hyrule Warriors being canon and botw taking place after Hyrule Warriors.
I liked this!! Very well done, and makes sense!
I've always thought that the "fallen hero timeline' happened when link traveled to termina. There was no hero to stop ganondorf so he just took over, whose to say that it was link who ganondorf defeated, remember the heros shade in twilight is suppose to be the hero of time who no one remembered that's why he still lingers on
Well when you think about where link was going link's awakening taking place before the oracle games kinda makes sense his boat was probably destroyed while he was on his way to either labrina or hollow drum depending on which oracle games you play first
It's apparently a different Link though
Except the Oracle games canon ending literally has Link getting on a small sail boat, like the one we see in Link's Awakening, and setting sail, so it makes the most sense that these games lead directly into Link's Awakening.
@@RedGalaxy00 then how did he get to hollow drum and labrina after the events of a Link to the past because in Oracle games he washes up on shore and is rescued by either Din or Nayru in their respective games.
@@lowesgameing2003 If I remember correctly, doesn't the opening scene of both games show Link arrive to check on the triforce, only for it to teleport him?
@@lowesgameing2003 in both games, no matter which order you play, link arrives to the countries via magic teleportation
Great video and well explained
I said this on one of Hyrule Gamer's videos too, but since you brought it up I have a theory that the downfall timeline split is something we are not explicitly shown. The two "good" branches involve Rauru / the goddesses using time travel in the first place to send Link forward (this is somewhat contradicted by what you say in the video about Link not actually time traveling, but I think they both could work). The "bad" branch is if they didn't. As in, child Link pulls out the Master Sword, hears an evil laugh, turns around, and has a short fight hopeless against Ganondorf before dying.
With the way the timeline seems to work it would be completely possible to make all three timelines merge back together. The meeting of the Ocarina of Time and The Master Sword in the hands of the Hero of Time seems to cause an event known in the Elder Scrolls series known as a dragonbreak. Where time splits into many different timeline and then the timelines come crashing back together and all event within those timelines happened in the main timeline. This is recorded twice in the Elder Scrolls where the first seemingly for no reason at the start of the mythic era when the continent of Tamriel in first being settled by the races of the world. The second happens when a dwemer construct powered by the heart of Lorkan is activated by Talos and both the Dragonbreak and the Construct are used to his advantage to conquer all of Tamriel. A similar thing may have happened in the Legend of Zelda seeing as how all the events of the three timelines seem to be referenced in BOTW.
Also known as, Hyrule Warriors.
Bruh, do you even CHIM!?
Yes, the Fallen Hero Timeline IS literally by definition a “what if” scenario based on an alternative version of Ocarina of Time. Yet we know it is also a *canonical* one, because the Zelda devs say so. Which would also by definition, then, make it a parallel universe. And that’s not a problem because we already know the Zelda series takes place in a multiverse as it is (see Termina, the World of the Ocean King, Lorule, etc.)
Why only at that one moment? Why are there not infinite branching timelines based on any of the moments Link could possibly die? Because the Zelda devs say there’s only this one. The creators determine canon.
I always factor it as anytime Link failed and died, the world would progress to the point of the Sealing War regardless of what he did or didn't do. Link fell, and with it Hyrule did to.
I could be a possibility that, while there would be different Timelines if the Hero fails in other games, or even if the Hero of Time dies at the wrong times even in Ocarina of Time, but those Timelines would be dead-end Timelines were the world ends up destroyed or something like that. There's also Ganondorf returning from the Sacred Realm after obtaining the Triforce as he does in Ocarina of Time or failing to return from the Sacred Realm after obtaining the Triforce as mentioned numerous times in both the English and Japanese of both the SNES and GBA versions of A Link to the Past.
@@enforcerridley158 I think there are technically infinite timelines, we just haven't seen them because there haven't been any games taking place in these timelines
@@rickrogan2355 That’s a cool way to think about it, too. I like that idea. But doesn’t the timeline in Hyrule Historia specify that it was specifically when the Hero of Time fought Gabon at the end that he falls that leads to A Link to the Past? Or am I misremembering?
@@enforcerridley158 So this theory would entail that there ARE potentially infinite worlds for each way Link could die, but that every single one leads to total annihilation, and so only the Fallen Hero Timeline is presented, as it is the only one in which Link dies that actually lasts? 😳 That would certainly be bleak, haha. The Zelda series is actually millions of dead, unseen universes 💀 I think I prefer the less gruesome, and simpler, assumption that it’s just the Fallen Hero Timeline that exists alone of worlds in which Link dies 😅
A well thought, easy to follow, persuading video. Good job. I also never understood why they made a "the hero fails" timeline.. I mean every game ends with you winning
The "downfall" split didn't happen after OoT but before. FSA is actually that game's parallel to the events of OoT, but with Vaati and the Four Sword still around.
Proof:
- FSA and LttP have identical maps.
- FSA and LttP both have the Quake and Bombos medallions
- FSA would be the only non-"downfall" appearance of the Trident of Shadows. Instead, placed before LttP, it's simply the origin of Ganon's signature weapon for that timeline.
- 7 human maidens, 7 human sages.
- The Zora are feral, like in all the "Downfall" games.
- Ganon keeps the Four Sword in his pyramid in the Gameboy Advance version of LttP, like he kept the Light Arrows in his castle in WW.
- Just where the heck were the FS and Vaati chilling out while all the Child Timeline stuff was happening?
- Kaepora Gaebora appears in both of these games.
- The Mirror of Twilight was destroyed in TP, it can't show up again in the very next game in the timeline!
- FSA contains several of the same structures as FS that show up in none of the other games, such as the Tower of Winds, and the Sanctuary of the Four Sword.
- And more, but you get the idea. There is *no* connection between FSA and TP that would suggest one follows the other, or even that they occur in the same timeline!
This means the timeline split before OoT, likely before FS, and even likely before MC, and suddenly things begin to make sense.
Another excellent video my friend!
....
Or is it?!
See, there is a reality out there in which you DIDN'T upload this video
Long have I believed that there should never have been a "timeline" for the franchise. Sure, it was nice seeing a couple sequels to OoT come from separate directions. Sure, it was interesting to play with the idea of aLttP somehow being a prequel to the first two games, and only end up asking questions as to how they connect. But at the end of the day, the Legend of Zelda is a legend, and I will always regard it as such.
Which is literally what happened, the entire timeline has been officially retconned in the botw books, now everything in the past is just myths and legends.
@@thechugg4372 which to me is lame AF. I just don't care about myths and legends where everything is up to imagination. To me there is no fun in that. You can't do anything real with just "stories of old" They don't effect anything, they have no rules, and so you can't make them interact with anything else without destroying any semblance of meaning in the main game.
My head canon theory for the downfall timeline is that it happened first with Link and Zelda being unprepared for Ganon. At the end of ALTTP when Link wishes on the Triforce it sent the premonitions Link and Zelda had back in time to give them a second chance which was the events of OOT, but like with the Adult/Child timeline splits, the downfall timeline continued on with the restored Hyrule and the events of the games that followed leading to 3 timelines. It isn't the most perfect theory, but just how I see it working.
The hero falls timeline functions simply because the problem here was ocarina of time itself, if you look at the game, all the things that happen are almost completely disconected from the hero falls timeline. If you remember, the first zelda released before ocarina, so yeah, the problem is because of ocarina, all the games that released before are now considerated almost uncannon, what i think that happens here to this timeline works is that, SOMEHOW they made link travel to the past in his last adventure of the hero falls timeline, if you look at the timeline, this one starts a bit above the other two, wich can make it happens first, however the only way to make this canon is by link traveling back to ocarina after his defeat and beat gannon
My theory of the "fallen hero"-timeline is, that this timeline has nothing to do with the original Link.
Instead those are the adventures of Mido as a Link impostor.
After the events in OoT, Mido was depressed that his love disappeared and so did his rival (or Link simply had better things to do than looking after his nemesis no 1^^)
In memory of Link he wandered the land as “Link” to help others and being a hero himself.
Mido’s true idendity was somehow discovered yers later and that's why in Zelda 2 is a town named after him.
That still rests on the "if" Link is defeated, as opposed to "when" Zelda sent him back, so that theory doesn't actually address the main point of the video.
Yeah the fallen timeline never really sat well with me either. I just don’t like the implication that there are incarnations of Link that are defeated and die by Ganon’s hand. Call it cheesy but I much prefer the traditional prophecy that good will always triumph over evil.
Coincidentally, I prefer the games in the two “good ending” timelines over the fallen timeline games but that’s more about my personal preference for 3D Zelda over 2D.
The reason why there is the possibility of Link dying against ganon is simply due to the fact of the parts of the triforce. The most likely thing the Triforce of Courage is granting is something akin to semi imortality, and it would stand to reason that the only thing able to beat that would be the power of another part of the triforce, in this case the triforce of power. Basicly it was only possible for link to die once and that would be in the fight against ganon, not his human form because he wielded the power but did not absorb it yet.
That breakdown was simple and easy to understand. I never thought of it that way.
Not the first comment
It doesn't necessarily mean that there are infinite time lines, it's just that there is the possibility of Link getting killed in his fight with Ganon, possibility that doesn't exist in the other games.
It makes some sense if you think of the adult and child timelines as collectively a pair of timelines that exist always together, and the downfall timeline as its own timeline that can't exist while the other two exist, and vice versa. Which kinda makes sense, in a way; if Link lost that fight, then the other two timelines would never have existed because they both rely on him winning, and if he won, then the downfall timeline couldn't exist since it relies on him losing. So I think that all the timelines COULD exist, but in any particular game, either only the downfall timeline exists, or only the adult and child timelines exist, but never all three at once.
I'm terrified every time you drop a timeline video because last time I dragged my heels you made the Abandoned Timeline video which uh... was exactly what I was working on. So to see you flirt so heavily with my next video, I'm happy to see you only... briefly, touch on it, which gives me clearance to keep moving forward. As for everything else... yeah, super frustrating to work with that damn 'Fallen' reality.
That's an absolutely great point. You can't have a canon timeline showing only 3 different timelines, if there are alternate realities involved, since that means the book itself would need to be expanding infinitely to show this complete timeline. There is always a when, until for some reason they forced in an if
There is a channel that explains that the Fallen Hero timeline is better defined as “abandoned hero” timeline.
When as an adult link goes back to the past to solve some issues, he can’t simply go back to where he left off. (In the game that does happen just because of gameplay, but logically that wouldn’t be able to happen.)
So the timeline that he “abandoned” he can never go back to save.
When he returns to the future he actually returns to a new timeline. The “triumphant hero” timeline
This is a really good summary!
The "fallen" split exists purely to stop the Majora on timeline from having almost every game but the Wind Waker games
I wanna see the timeline where link just stays in bed and falls under Ganon rule.
Bandit, the Zelda Timeline is CANON. ALL OF IT. You have to deal with it.
It didn't really matter if they switched Link's Awakening & Oracle of Ages/Seasons.
They were always interchangeable & sort of bled into each other from either end.
Link's Awakening was always a dream so it can be moved.
The boat ending of the Oracle games could be the intro to Link's Awakening...
OR it could reference that Link's desire to sail the seas as he already did before in Link's Awakening.
The timeline is left open for a reason. They might want to stick another game inside a portion of the timeline later.
The REAL answer is that the full story of Hyrule has not been told yet. We don't know all aspects of Hyrule's history.
We only have the chapters in front of us. There's still much more story to be told.
A Link Between Worlds proved it. The Triforce has split again which proves Ganon came back after the Oracle games.
Breath of the Wild's timeline placement will be further understood once the sequel comes out next year.
It is a convergence but we don't know how it converged or what made it converge.
We know a lot about The Legend of Zelda but there is STILL so much more to learn as Nintendo reveals more of this world to us.
The Fallen Timeline is simply I think a nice way to put all the most older games and wrap it up, and it's also why they put BOTW at the end: to put all this timeline confusion behind and move on with a now-renewed single timeline. Still, nice video Bandit
You know it's a messy timeline when even the creators say that it'll likely change again, like thanks guys really assuring
The source of the fallen timeline can easily be explained thusly: When child Link takes the master sword, he opens the door to the sacred realm and enters it, finding himself in the Temple of Light before Rauru and the Triforce. As we know, Ganondorf was following close behind. Ganondorf takes the Triforce, and realizing that the Triforce of Courage went to Link, attacked him. Link was no match, he was defeated and the master sword was lost. Rauru saw this, and zooped Link back in time to when he first entered, and immediately sealed him away so that he was safe from G. Thus Rauru split the timeline, one where G kills child Link in the Temple of Light, and one where Link is sealed away safely for 7 years.
Simply put: The games were never planned ahead, and meant to be placed chronologically at any point. And this "timeline" is just Nintendo trying to solve a non-existent problem, for fanservice purposes and to sell books, obviously.
Ah yes, someone with common sense. Developers just confirm there's a timeline to please the whining fans that want ilogical answers to ilogical questions
Why is it that when Final Fantasy make references to previous games nobody tries to make a timeline out of it and yet with Legend of Zelda.... they're just references for god sakes
I know its a bit of a copeout but I really like the idea that the inconsistencies in timeline happen because the games we play are retellings of the same story told by contradicting or unreliable narrators who have incomplete information, as if "the legend of zelda" is a legend, a story being told to us to pass down, its a sorta nice narrative
Inconsistencies happen because of bad writing
There is no over-arching (all encompassing) time line. Nintendo takes a great idea/story and changes it a little adding new game play each time to make MONEY. There is no time line. Also, and I'm probably alone or in the vast minority on this... I do not acknowledge anything "Four Swords", or "Minish Cap" as part of the official Zelda universe. In fact, I believe these stories being SO different are a further evidence that there never was any cohesive time line. My opinion..
I have always felt the fan obsession over the timeline was misguided because Nintendo never cared and neither should we. The "Legend of Zelda" is just that; a legend. It's a story re-told by different authors who each make their own embellishments or changes to suit their own tastes and that of their audience, as well as the story itself being distorted by time and place. Sure, we know that some of the Legends about Zelda are connected in some way and imply a linear sequence of events, but it's pointless to go digging. It will never all add up or make sense because when Nintendo wants to make a game, or someone wants to tell a story, they will just tell the story they want to tell. It's not History and so isn't bound by evidence or logic or facts.
I agree with you though that the "fallen" timeline is dumb and makes no sense at all. Sure, I do agree that the canon of Ocarina of Time does mandate two timelines from that point onward, but that's the only case and is justified in the plot. A Link to the Past following this Fallen timeline doesn't work even on its own because ALTTP doesn't say anything about a Great Hero being defeated. It is pretty explicit that Ganon found the Trifroce, invaded the Kingdom, and was defeated and sealed away... that last part being directly referenced in Ocarina of Time with Ganon even promising to someday hunt down the Sages descendants and break the seal.
I'm not aware of ALTTP ever giving us a direct quote of how long ago the Imprisoning War was, so there is plenty of room there to imagine that what we are told is distorted a bit. The "reality" is that Ganon found the Triforce, invaded from the now corrupted Sacred Realm, and ruled Hyrule for seven years before he was defeated by the Hero and sealed away by the Seven Sages. It's not hard to imagine to how these two events; the invasion and his defeat; being separated by a period of seven years was lost at some point and so the narrative in ALTTP's era is that it was all one great battle.
Great video!
I love that we kinda have a say in the timeline and what might be in the games. It’s a world we love and want to be apart of. I think it’s awesome that the creators value, and are even impressed by our theories and fan creations.