Camping Trip Gone Really Wrong | Trapped in a Desert Canyon at Carlsbad Caverns NP
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- In August 1999, Dave Coughlin was embarking on a cross-country move to California to attend graduate school, and his best friend Raffi Kodikian decided to come along. Dave, recalling advice to visit Carlsbad Caverns in the Chihuahuan Desert, realized it was on their route west, proposing a detour through Phoenix on Thursday. They decided to camp in Rattlesnake Canyon for the night and continue on tomorrow to visit the caverns and on West. In the morning, they packed and headed towards the car. But as they headed to the trail back, they realized they were lost and couldn't find the cairns to navigate. Now, a simple overnight trip was now turning into a fight for survival as the friends ended up lost in the canyon with no way out. As the days went on, and hope waned, the friends lost all will to live, and the ultimate question lingered...
0:00 Introduction
0:33 The Chihuahuan Desert
2:08 The Raffi Kodikian & Dave Coughlin Story
24:41 Lost & Found
28:43 New Mexico v Raffi Kodikian
33:21 Epilogue
35:43 Conclusion
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This story was sourced from the book "Journal of the Dead: A Story of Friendship and Murder in the New Mexico Desert" by Jason Kersten
Much of the script and information was sourced from the book
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Music by Scott Buckley "Omega"
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A lot to take away from this story. I suggest reading the book for all the details. If I included the complexities of the relationship, this could've been well over an hour. Thanks to Chris P Bacon for bringing this to my attention.
First thing you have to ask yourself, what would you have done? I know for a fact there's no way I could stab my best friend to death under any circumstances. Especially after just a few days lost. I know it's easy for my to say not ever being in that situation. And no one can really know how they'd react. But I just couldnt' see myself stabbing my friend. I thought about the Nguyen-Orbeso situation. From everything we know, they survived for a few days and Orbeso had a gun, which is a lot easier to do than stick a knife into someone. For these two, although a permit isn't a sure thing, it's still something for people to know where you're at. If Raffi refused, they would've been found alive. At first, I was for sure this was a mercy killing. But as I researched and produced this video, I was going back and forth on if I thought there was some malice in this. But I think it's just likely these were some city slickers who had no idea and had no respect for the environment they were entering. To trek up a hillside with limited water was a terrible decision, and ultimately cost Dave his life. If they had not did that, I'm sure he still has the will to persevere. Anyways, what are your thoughts? Thanks for watching!
Thanks for taking my recommendation. Great job covering the story.
@@SkiSkillsMontana No, thank you for bringing it to my attention! I read the book and was fascinated by this story. Definitely one of the most interesting stories I've produced. I'm still perplexed by this whole situation. Great recommendation.
I have a lot of thoughts but I'll just say "Ditto with a side 👀."
Such a heart broken true story.. will buy the book to do list. God bless. His soul r.i.p.
I absolutely agree with your opinion that these were two city slickers who thought they knew it all, and had no respect for Mother Nature. They started their hike by not doing what the Park Ranger told them to do: take enough water, per person, with them. Whoever heard of using the last of one’s drinking water to boil a hot dog in? It was astonishing that a person would do that! Also, they didn’t prepare for the trip. No compass, couldn’t read the map, no signal locater that people can locate you with if you get lost, and of course, not enough water. If you get lost, the best thing to do is stay at your campsite with your gear. The chances are very good that you will be found at your campsite. But wandering all over the place is a bad idea; the wilderness is vast, and you can’t bring your stuff with you, so what are you really accomplishing. Always camp at the campsites that have been provided by the Park Department. These campsites are usually near the trail. Don’t leave that campsite to find a “better” one way off the trail. Finally, if the main trail has a turn (it’s usually called a branch), take a picture of that turn (area), and include a distinguishing feature in the composition of the picture; for example, a gnarled tree trunk. Finally, don’t kill your friend, not even if he asks you to.
If you're gullible to believe you need boiling water to cook a hot dog over a fire... Everything in this case is plausible. 🤷🏽
If they’re foolish enough to believe that just a couple of pints of water is enough for traveling through a desert, that also adds plausibility to the events detailed.
They should have saved that hot dog water. Sure it wouldn't taste the best but it's even better then just water it has a little bit of energy from the hot dogs left.
@@charliekezzathey probably dumped it right after they used it lol
@@peggedyourdad9560 Until you've lived out west, it's easy to underestimate the dangers. East of the Mississippi the population density is such that your "fear" level is low... you think help is never really far away. Climatic conditions also are not so severe that generally speaking, you will find water somewhere in the terrain. Elevation gains as you go west increase both sun expsoure and dehydration. It's a different beast in the west, and even those who live here often make critical, lethal mistakes. A false sense of security is provided by being in a "state park" that has rangers staffing it as well..... sad and tragic....
@@trailrunner925 In 1999 I would say many people in the world know you can cook a hot dog on a fire. TBH, I've never even seen a t.v. show where boiling water was used, at a camp, to cook a hot dog.. The only place that I know uses boiled water for a hot dog is Costco. I don't think that decision was limited to the region.
What I always take away from these watching from the UK, is how many beautiful and diverse wildernesses you have in the US. You're very lucky, it's lovely to see them and learn about one's we've never heard of over here in the main. All the best.
I definitely feel lucky to live in the Western US. Every type of wilderness you can think of can be found here. I'm so used to living around mountains when I visit flat areas such as the eastern part of the US, it bothers me for some reason. Thank you very much for your comment and watching!
And you're lucky living in a country whose only dangerous creature is the black adder.
Here I am thinking the same thing about your country..the moors and castles and history and the infamous Strid, would love to go to the U.K.
@@jackiebulmer515they have werewolves in London
@@jackiebulmer515 ha ha very true and not much weather here apart from alot of rain!
Im always saddened the instant there is mention of starting out a trip into the wilderness without enough water.
What a sad story. Thanks for telling it so eloquently.
It's mindboggling how naive and unprepared they were for such terrain. No compass, scant water (!!!!), and believing you need to use your scant water to boil hotdogs is utter stupidity. (Doesn't EVERYONE know that at camp you roast them?) Killing your companion just blows it out of the park. Who were these people?
Outdoor incompetence to the extreme.
Boiled hotdogs are the wurst
Odd they didn't eat the beans. After 1 day I would have smashed the can with a rock if I had no can opener.
These hikers were a couple of city dwellers attempting to hike in a land foreign to them with no motel 6. They knew nothing about survival in that vast desert region.
I call it natural selection. Nobody can be that stupid.
Just 3 PINTS of water? Good heavens. That’s pretty frightening.
I take more than that when I go fishing for a few hours in the cold UK lol
It's stupefyingly ignorant. Entitled even.
As a retired Army veteran I can say that with 100% certainty that even if you have a topo map and don't know how to read it or terrain association its completely worthless. Many unfortunate but avoidable circumstances on this.
I remember hearing of this. It is heartbreaking to me considering that I did quite some Boy Scout camping in that area and later in life a lot of field work while in the Army at Fort Bliss. I know how to live and survive in this area. They did not. First bring enough water. If you find a road or trail it has to lead somewhere. Where plants grow there has to be water. Don't travel so much in the heat of the day. Wait till night and look for the glowing lights of a city. Walk in that direction. Look to the bottom two stars of the Big Dipper to point to the North Star. That way is north.
Lack of backcountry experience is a bugger.
My heart feels for both these young men and wish then peace.
You don't kill someone, even if they're begging. You comfort them and push them to carry on. City slickers shouldn't ever go hiking in the wilderness without a more experienced person. One can of bright colored spray paint could keep a lot of people from getting lost. It's easy to mark a trail. There's no excuse for any of this.😮
Mark a trail with spray paint? You can't be serious. These city boys were in way over their heads. Their naivety came back to bite them. It's not Disneyland.
I've been an "outdoors person" all my life, but I have only been lost two or three times in my lifetime, and it is one of the most helpless, hopeless feelings in the world! I would NOT do anything to invite that feeling again! I no longer hike alone in wilderness or rugged mountain areas alone, although I did years ago; it just isn't safe anymore. Although most people have a cell phone today, there may NOT be a cell phone tower within reach of your device's signal!
It may be the same feeling when you experience your child is lost. Indescribably hopeless, powerless and the emptiness feeling, how awful! Thankfully, my little babies just stepped into the next yard behind the house, not easily visible.
-my kids have paws ...-
I'm a solo female hiker and have gotten "lost" many times in the Pacific NW, quite often due to snow. Usually it's a matter of going down ie--to the N.Cascades hwy or following a river ie--Elwha, or going back in the direction you came; mindful of the dicey stuff--snow bridges. hidden cliffs, going down where you can't get back up, etc. Looking back, I loved all those adventures & hiking in real wilderness, but I should've told someone where I was going :) for sure!
I used to like the solitude of hiking alone. I lost the trail in the deep snow high in the mountains for half a day and it was a dreadful feeling as the afternoon sun began to fade. What a relief to find the trail, knowing a big storm was arriving a day later. I agree it's not safe anymore to hike alone, because of bad characters. I never relied on a cell phone ever in the wilderness. If a person needs a cell phone they shouldn't be out there. GPS is useful. They were dead before they left their car with that insufficient water. Must've spent their time playing video games instead of learning about the world.
It’s odd to me that such young men would give up so quickly. Very sad.
This was an excellent telling of this tale. The details and data were beyond any other I've encountered. I've lived and adventured in the west, nature shows no mercy.
👍❤️❤️
Thank you! What stands out for me is never having experienced these conditions, it is hard to imagine the "pain" people experience while living through these conditions. This isn't the first that we have heard of people in so much pain that they want to die even after only a few days. I can't judge this one. The mental and physical toll...I live in California where during summer it reaches 100-110. It's miserable...but then we run for the air conditioning. Not having that, and continued relentless heat with no water...I know when it gets this hot even the nights are still hot and when they chose to stay in their tent during the heat of the day...I think most people would think that the end isn't far off.
"pain ?!" 🤔🤔🤔 (0 off pl) 😁😊
I am not justifying it, I am trying to understand it.
When you go without water long enough, your joints and muscles start to ache, and combined with hunger, soreness, boredom and mental anguish, it can be very physically painful.
@@b.p.879 Thank you! I did not know that!
A few years ago, I got sick and due to the cold meds irritating some reflux issues, it became impossible to eat and difficult to drink. After several days of barely sipping a bit of water or Gatorade (like averaging less than 8 Oz a day for a few days) even that stopped. My husband had wanted me to go to the hospital for the past 2 weeks because I was having bad breathing issues but what ended up driving me to going was the pain that I learned was from the dehydration. And I generally do fairly well with pain. I've given birth twice, both times waited until I was several hours into labor before going to the hospital, I've suffered from blinding migraines for the last 2 decades, tension headaches (which, unbelievably to me until I experienced them, are even worse) for over 10, ovarian cysts for the past 35 years- and those the docs usually just say "nothing we can do, just go home and take Motrin. It'll burst eventually and be gone/it just burst so nothing to see here", crippling menstrual cramps that cause me to actually vomit and make walking impossible (and hurt way worse than my labor did), etc. About 20 years of ulcerative colitis- no picnic, I can promise. The pain from the dehydration was right up there with some of these- the headache from it was pretty fierce and it was kind of like having the flu where your whole body aches but multiplied by 25. And you know it's just going to get worse if you can't get some fluid in you. Luckily I was able to go and spend a couple of hours with some IVs- they gave me 2 full ones and some stuff to calm my stomach and made sure I could ingest fluids on my own before releasing me. I could definitely see wanting to check out if you knew that pain was the only thing you had to look forward to. That and getting munched on by a big nasty bird.
“……Wear your scars like badges of resilience….” Absolutely powerful❤️
I have to conclude that not having been in that situation, under that stress, I cannot know what guided him to that act. But sticking a knife into anyone's heart seems so unthinkable to me!
I couldn't agree more. Much easier with a firearm. But with a knife? Ugh.
This is an harrowing story all the way around, with all due respect, unfortunately many individuals who venture into the wilderness have absolutely no idea what the are getting into-
I've lived and worked in several National Parks in the intermountain west, and I would always tell visitors, "we are surrounded by awesome beauty, but it can also be lethal danger"
To anyone who might read this comment; Be safe, don't take any unnecessary risks, and more importantly remain acutely aware and cognizant of your surroundings and location-
Thank You for another articulate, professional well produced presentation-
Many Blessings>
Well said 👏👏👏
These 2 young men had ZERO Common Sense!
What a genuinely sad, tragic story. I realize how much has changed in 20+ years since I download all my trail maps onto my phone and can navigate most anywhere without worry of getting lost. If only those guys had chosen to camp on the canyon rim, not the bottom, or any number of small decisions that could have altered the outcome. Just sheer tragedy.
Wow, what a case for the moral scholars. What a powerful story. My jaw is on the floor as I’ve no idea what it must’ve been like for them both!
I agree. It's so easy to get lost, no matter if you're in desert or forest. Panic sets in real soon. I've done it, I was 100 yds. from my truck. but i listened a bit too much to my buddy. I went with my gut, and what a relief. be careful who you take with. they might inadvertently pluck yer shit up. but ya, what a conundrum . Funny, Canada, loves mercy killing. it's called MAID. I'm pretty sure they would have thrown a parade, if this happened in Canadah. He certainly would not have spent a night in jail. They would have put him up in a a 4-5 star hotel with free room service.
Hi! Just 5 minutes into the story, and it's already very interesting!!! 🙂 Again, thank you sooo much!!!! ❤
So sad..never give up, ever !!
Your words at the end were extremely poignant. It was so fitting after this story we listened to. These guys just were not prepared and just gave up. If Raffi just refused to kill him, Dave would be alive given the ranger found him just 7 hours later!
Idk what to think about this. We really dont know how we'll react in this type of situation. Im sure the ordeal was painful. But i find it hard to see myself killing my best friend, especially by stabbing him. Combined with staying hopeful, and selfishly not wanting to have to live with knowing i killed my friend, regardless of the situation, I just couldn't do it. Thats why theres a part of me that believes something was more to this. Stabbing is much more intimate and intense than shooting someone. But all the everything points to just a couple ill prepared young men who just gave up. But the investigation did ask some good questions like how did Raffi have the energy to bury him. With that energy, wouldnt you try again to get out? Anyways, this was a great video OD. Your content never fails.
Thanks OJ. Well said. I had similar thoughts as well.
O shit dd !! 😵😵💀
I think the answer to your last question is that Raffi had completely given up on the possibility of escape or rescue and felt that attempting to escape would be more of a wasted effort than burying his friend.
I wouldn't have given up and killed anyone...no matter how thirsty or in pain he was...the fact thst he was in pain meant he was alive
@@nolanteegee9499 couldn't agree more
The best way to make a signal fire is to use green foliage and branches. It gives off black smoke which is much easier to see.
You do need to start it with dead wood tho, get a big fire going then start putting on branches straight off trees.
That's great to know!
There are no trees in this area for miles.
Yeah the problem with the fire idea is, that area is desert. You wouldn't be able to find wood to put on it. I live in that area about 100 miles east of that place. Yeah, it's desert.
@he7is7at7hand oak springs is very close with plenty of trees. But they weren't aware 😕 also lots of drinkable water. Great oasis!
Got to be a hot, fairly big fire to burn green stuff too. Moss and leaves make a lot of smoke and don’t require as much heat as a green live plant would
I grew up hiking in the California deserts, canyons and forests. I think that has giving a really great sense of direction. I cherish those memories but I have no desire to ever go into back country or even hiking alone. The silence out there is majestic and terrifying.
Thanks for taking my recommendation and making this video .I was living in the park a mile or two away when this happened. And have been to the place where it happened several times.I still can't figure out how it is possible to get so disoriented there.
Just looking at maps of the area and watching videos of people treking this trail, it seems so odd. I've been out to way more confusing places and never had been lost. Were they really just so green to the western environment? Idk, I still have many questions about this. Raffi is either diabolical or just plain one of the worse outdoorsman ever. Didn't bring enough water. Trek a big hill with no enough water. Getting lost and not taking mental notes of landmarks to find his way back. And worse of all, refusing Dave's request to stab him. So odd. Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I thoroughly enjoyed diving into this story. It was so fascinating.
Maybe this is what elephants are doing when they remember their dead?
What an incredible and sad story. I couldn’t imagine being placed in that kind of situation. Heat and dehydration are dangerous and people don’t recognize how much it can affect you. Plus, it affects people differently. I’m glad the judge saw it for what it was and I liked the way he worded his ruling. Cheers for another great video, friend! Top notch as always!!
I liked the silver lining in which the family wanted to fund loaner GPS locator devices for campers. Was this done? I think this would be a great policy for the NPS in all of their domains. When you think of the expenses and risks for mounting search operations, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to provide a panic button?
That’s crazy. But I don’t think I could “mercy kill” someone. I like to think I’m decently skilled outdoors, I was also a game warden for 5 years. I hope I wouldn’t end up in one of these stories.
Outstanding job with this episode. One of the best so far!
Somehow college tends to instill a sense of confidence that is ill found. Experience and training are paramount.
Yes, so true! Am a boomer who has experienced both the outdoors since childhood ... and how higher ed makes people stupid ... it does not teach one how to be a critical thinker but how to believe they are beyond needing to do so.
He is right, it’s a life sentence. This man will have to live with that decision for the rest of his life. I feel like it will eventually destroy this man.
When researching this video, I found out that Raffi is still in the financial industry and has a blog on medium discussing finance. Seems to be doing well.
That's the best written conclusion from you yet. It is metaphorical for life in general. Thank you!
Wow, thank you!
I was thinking I could definitely live with these words to help me deal with the chronic pain I have from a nerve disorder
Yes! And also when you want to reach goals in life @@ElizabethGrindon
I listened to the last segment 3 times because I felt the same. Inspiring words, especially for these times.
I find your closing thoughts in your videos incredibly inspiring! for any challenge I seem to be facing! You are the best!
I try! Some are survival tips. Some are just words to heed.
The MOST beautiful narrating. Patent your brand of storytelling---riveting with that music. ....Settling in to listen to the rest of the video. Thanks for the upload.
Thanks for listening!
I got to “three pints of water” and my jaw hit the floor. I’ve never camped in the desert and even I know that would be insufficient even for a single day.
No killing your best friend. Ever.
What? Not ever? Not even occasionally?
I'm sure the dogs were precooked, these folks were crazy.
They had a one day overnight pass and nobody started looking for them until 4 days later?? How does this happen, unless the system is broken. Rangers should have been sent out to look for them on day 3 at the latest!
That ending speech makes me want to get lost in the wilderness and almost die 🥲
By far your best exit poetry!
🥇. Thanks for starting my week with mystery.
Any time!
Kind of odd that they were both weak yet he had tge energy to dig a hole and carry heavy rocks to place on top of his friend's body.
he had energy but they both lost hope and felt the impending death. you don't know how they felt 3-4 days without water lost in the desert under scorching sun.
Imagine killing your best friend. Yea that dudes whole life is a jail sentence of guilt & shame
Every video from this site IS an Emotional Roller coaster Ride.
WELL DONE ❤
Thank you!
This is tragic, but it also plays like what dumb and dumber would be like if it was tragedy instead of comedy. I'm a country boy myself, but I'd a city person told me I'd need to take $8 worth of quarters with me into the city,that's what I'd do, not $4, not $6 but $8. I don't have a frame of reference, but I'm not stupid and figure ill need it if those that survive there say I do. Taking less than recommended water is inexcusable, even if the rest of the blundering could be forgiven.
They needed water to boil the hot dogs? ..... what!? 😅 Wtf is right.
Same thought. Not only was this obviously their first time camping… it was also their first time cooking.
Hot dogs are cooked before they leave the factory
@@drdrew3they still should be fully heated before eating due to the risk of listeria.
Right
Great telling of a tragic story. We never know how we'll react in situations like this...With their situation, knowing you have a 1 day permit and it's only been 4 days...as tough as being thirsty and dehydrated is, you would have to think Rangers would eventually search for you..that alone.. I want to think would give me enough hope to not give in. Great content as usual.
A story I read about, the 1967 Danali disaster, could be something to cover if you haven't already done so... A group of young inexperienced climbers trying to climb Danali. I would love to hear your take on it. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! I'll take a look at it.
I wonder why Dave did not pen or sign a note in the journal re the impending final incident in an effort to ensure his ‘BFF’ would be exonerated, as it seemed he still had some semblance of presence of mind at that stage? 🤔
There's something very peculiar about that. When reading the book, the author discusses the sentencing hearing in detail. And one thing that did happen was that the handwriting was sent for analysis. But for some reason, it was never mentioned again in the book. I looked everywhere for results on the handwriting analysis and I didn't find anything. I thought that was very weird, since if they could prove that was Dave's writing in the journal entry, then that would exonerate Raffi. My only conclusion is that neither the defense nor the prosecution found the results helpful. It was still illegal for Raffi to do what he did. Raffi admitted he killed his friend. Maybe if it was a trial, then we would've known the results. But I can only come to the conclusion that it wasn't helpful to either side. IMO, I think the family knew it was Dave's writing, which is why they believed Raffi didn't do it in malice.
@@outdoordisasters We love your work 💯
@@willowstree7670 🙏🙏🙏
I hope they fired that ranger who failed to look for over due hikers not just once and then he should have spotted the fact that the exit signs for the trail was not there RIP coughflin, I do not understand if they had maps?
Interesting story disturbing and sad ❤
It really couldn't had said better than you did.
I love that old desert. But you've gotta have water.
YOur word and statement is very very professional like a story your selling. I do realize the story happens for real....
Amazing sad story..for both friends💔
What a tale! 😢
Ah my home. I live in the Chihuahuan desert in TX very close to Carlsbad, it's one of the places where my husband fracs. God is so beautiful here.
Life is hard! It’s allot harder when you’re stupid……John Wayne
@@randyroyston2461 hey it's the mayor of retardington d.c. , can I have your autograph?
It's hard to watch people make the wrong decision over and over.
Great survival advice at end of video
It seriously makes me want to test my mettle against ability to survive in nature with little resources 🙏
I once took an afternoon hike in a small nature reserve. It was on a plateau hilltop in Bush a few feet higher than me. The trail markers were painted footprints on the near side of rocks at short intervals. But the trail itself had not been much used and was faint. About a km in i battled to see the markers. Eventually i decided to retrace my steps. It was a scary nightmare trying to find signs on the far side of their rocks and not a landmark anywhere. I really felt for these two greenhorns unable to find any cairn in that deadly heat. They must have felt mad with fear . It was amazing they survived so long. Why did the ranger take 4 days to go search?
Ahhhh this is sooo sad. They just had to hold on a little longer!!! How devastating. Raffi must be having nightmares daily, about stabbing his friend. I hope he gets the help he needs.
Powerful Story
I'm just happy to know that some of the people i taught topo maps to would be better prepared than these cats were.
This is so tragic because they made so many basic mistakes...
Those cairns seemed like poor markers since there was no way to tell which way lead out.
I just want to lend a little insight. Im an rn and been a nurse for 16 years. Ive also been hospitalized for acute dehydration that nearly killed me, last spring actually.
Dehydration is extremely painful and causes severe mental status changes.
If these were generally healthy young men suffering from their 1st acute, severe illness in the heat out here... because i live in west tx very close to Carlsbad; i know this guy was asking for his friend to kill him.
I remember begging for hospice when i was admitted to the hospital because the pain was so severe and i mean ive given birth and have an extremely rare condition known to be the most painful to affect mankind, moreso than even amputation without anesthesia.
They were not prepared for the heat and the demands said makes of the body. They paid dearly for it and that's where they went wrong but the killing that took place was absolutely understandable; albeit grossly misguided and misinformed.
Great insight here. Thank you for sharing.
Raffi ended David’s life, but what actually killed him was the loss of hope.
Mr. OD, as usual, this video is intriguing, entertaining, and visually excellent. I need to comment, however, that the account of Dave and Raffi's prior relationship (before the hike), regarding the women they were involved with, was very confusing. The way the story is laid out, it's quite difficult to track the timing and connections among Sonnet, De Decu (sp?), Kirsten Swan, Dave, and Raffi. Normally, this wouldn't matter much for a wilderness survival story, but since the relationship angle became an issue in the trial, it takes on more importance. So, are we supposed to understand that Kirsten Swan had a relationship with Dave at some point after she broke up with Raffi (they had "grown closer," you reported, and Raffi was ok with it)? But how does this intersect with the relationship Dave had with his girlfriend Sonnet? Just after you tell us about Dave and Kirsten, both Sonnet and Kirsten are seeing Dave off on his big trip....
I understand. But to go over the relationship in detail would make the video much longer and not very relevant to the meat of the story. I suggest reading the book if you want to know more about the relationship and the complexities of it. I know it sounds confusing but that is exactly what this whole thing was. Dave did have a girlfriend before the trip (Sonnet) which I should've made clearer.
@@outdoordisasters Certainly what you say is true. This was just some input about trying to simplify that part of the story (or similar types in the future), or avoid possible misunderstandings.
Damn !! Interesting-bizarre story !
Common factors in most tragedies; free will-bad choices, unprepardness, no one placed a gun... ☝️😮💀
Someone's been watching too many cowboy movies where their dying breath is cursing at the circling vultures that they're not dead yet, damn it!!!! Vultures don't circle around, waiting for humans or any other living creature to fall down and die so they can eat them. They've got more important thing to be expending all their energies on. They're not stupid.
I have seen vultures form a circle by a live sitting cow and take bites out of it from different angles
@@JO-lx9bx I never knew cows sat. Are you sure about what you saw, lol! You won't find anything in the literature that studies vulture behavior that speaks to vultures attacking live animals.
@@isabellind1292 they lay down to chew cud. And well it happened. They also peck out newborn baby cows eyes if the mother isn’t there to defend it. Lots of one eye blinded cows from that. Why would a vulture care if somethings live or dead if its not putting up a fight
@@JO-lx9bx You're the one who said the cow was sitting so it's not my fault that's what you said. I'm not a mind-reader.
And I challenge you to find anything in the annuls of vulture behavior that talks about eating animals alive. I've done my research and I see absolutely nothing that speaks to what you're talking about.
@@isabellind1292a quick google search provides numerous articles and research on vultures eating live prey so its actually a well established fact
The hideous purple prose is more unendurable than the situations these people found themselves in.
From another, more detailed video, on the second day the 2 were reportedly furious they rangers hadn’t arrived yet to rescue them, and saying that once out, they were going to report how bad the park staff was. I don’t bring up to be disrespectful, but they were simply young, inexperienced and unaware of the risks and that when you go into the wilderness…the park staff will try to help as a back-up, but your safety is your responsibility.
Always look behind you as you travel and mark your trail so you can find your way back. Triangulate your position. Avoiding getting lost is extremely simple! But do people listen to advice? Nooooo...!😮
Exacly.
It is way too easy to get lost.....period
I’ve been backpacking since I was 10. Being 76 now I still backpack in Idaho, Montana, Washington and Alaska for weeks at a time. For these two guys to get lost in such open terrain demonstrates their inexperience and stupidity. They should have stayed in the city where they belong.
Pain can trigger a death wish. They had reached a very low point.
Pretty sure the narrators voice is AI generated, but I don't even care because this channel is absolutely fascinating.
God bless them both, what a horrible predicament that man was in. I can't imagine what he lives with every day having to make that awful decision. God bless all of the people affected by this tragedy. I wouldn't wish any of this on my worst enemy. Our justice system is terribly flawed, there are real murderers out there that never get convicted and then there is this poor man that's punishment is living with murdering his best friend. I just don't believe that the tax payers money needed to be spent on a trial and incarceration of a young man that has to live with this the rest of his life. I think that the prosecution should be ashamed of themselves for putting that kind of effort into convicting him. They need to go after the real murderers out there not the awful decision this young man made. Our justice system is a completely flawed mess and it's an embarrassing mess that needs to be seriously revamped so criminals have less rights and victims have more rights.
What a hard case! But killing someone with a knife is not merciful….idk how you can do that. I can’t personally judge that man harshly though. He wasn’t in his right mind I suppose.
Curious of the uran trick. Many have done it. An Australian guy lost for 81 days drank his for 2/3 of his time. But was ok.
I wonder if they have improved the Trail markings in Rattlesnake Canyon. That's ridiculous that they expect a pile of stones to be good enough for people to follow.
They have now. They put up signs
Its just so sad.that 2 mates went through this ordeal. I think Rafgi should have made one last push to find his car leaving his pal to wait for help, and if he really was near death it would have occurred naturally. I could have never killed my best friend when there was still
a chance to get out alive. Neither took charge of the situation, which is what was needed in such a situation. Shame
His friend should have begged him to "hold on". Instead of suicide. Although we don't know those details.
Damn!! Talk about being in a tough spot!! Its funny how "civilized society" still collects its "dues" :/
**Outdoor Disasters~~Its been fun watching your channel grow!! Keep up the great productions and content;)**
Thank you so much for your support!
Another great video! Your words at the end were beautiful. It is too easy to let go of hope in difficult circumstances.
But I'm like you, I couldn't see myself doing that to my best friend under any circumstances. I also couldn't see asking my friend to kill me - that would mean leaving them alone. If I was by myself, maybe I'd "check out" myself... Maybe... If things were bad enough. But not after a few days, especially with food sources on hand (the cactus fruit and beans).
This one leaves me unsure what to think.
I don’t agree he needed incarceration for this! I stand with the belief it was in mercy he ended the suffering of his best friend!
Wtf. So the ranger showed up just a few hours after he offed his BFF?!? It's like that movie The Mist. The end of that movie is nightmare fuel!
This is an interesting story and I am sure to read up on it and visit Rattlesnake Canyon. I cant believe Raffi received life imprisonment in NM for what Canadian healthcare does as a service.
However at 17:02, I really thought Ebert became a desert guardian and left them two , but in true Ebert fashion he drank it all and left empty bottles
haha hilarious
He did not receive life imprisonment was out after 16months. He just said he has to life with this guilt for life which is even worse than prison.
Damn. This one was brutal. A case of stupidity and dehydration. If someone wants you to end their life, what would you do?
I think both of them didn't understand that Dave could've survived for a few more days. Raffi should've refused until it was absolutely no chance. It would've been hard for me to stab my friend to death compared to if I had a firearm. Even then, I can't see myself doing it.
@@outdoordisasters Agreed. The sheer brutality of stabbing my friend to death in a situation where there was still a chance is incomprehensible....
@@pegacorn13 For sure. Thanks for commenting! I love discussing this story, probably the most bewildering story I've produced on this channel.
Its hard to believe, they only took 3 pints of water, planning to spend the night in the Desert? Plus hiking ... in the desert. A full gallon isn't enough. Plus they wanted to use water for cooking. Don't know if more water woulda helped these two guys. Very strange even tho i get why he killed his friend but.. i suspect neither of them were thinking clearly.
I am not clear on why nobody went looking. Also why did the ranger need permission from a volunteer?
idk that was weird. I forget, but it explains it in the book
Vommon Sense 101; Why would anyone Camp in a Desert if you have never even experienced the Desert before? Parents need to teach the outdoors to their Children! Thats why my Daughter was in Venture Crew where she learned outdoor skills. Even 100% prepared, there are always risks!
About 5 minutes into a jeep tour of the Arizona desert I looked around and realized that place could kill Mr in about a day. Hot, dry, no shade and rugged terrain that goes on forever. GPS and satellite phone for me
Cairns lead many astray
I thought it was Karens haha
Maybe he had planned it all along, so he went before hand to bury his supplies before he took his pal? He wasn;t in that bad of condition when they found him.
I want to go hiking but I don’t want to end up like these people
The buzzards were riding thermal air currents and just happened to be there.
It’s much appreciated if you don’t include such rocky and moving camera shots as it really gives some of us motion sickness. I understand you want to show they were dizzy but just a little would do. Thank you
He was horrible for killing his friend!! That isnt a mercy killing especially when they had food at the end.
Why didn’t they drink the bean juice wtf?
When you have lived in safety all your life the first step to surviving danger is to take it seriously. Take more water when the person who knows the area tells you to.
So, did they have bottles, or not? At 10:20 "[...] Feeling the first pangs of thirst, they regretted not having containers to collect water [...] 10:26 [...] They observed water pooling beneath rocks and swiftly improvised, kneeling over the puddles they slurped gritty water, spitting it back into empty bottles[...]".