4B11 vs 4G63? | 1170HP & 53 PSI++ Of BOOST Worlds Fastest EVO X! [TECH TALK]
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 23. 08. 2024
- 4G63 vs 4B11, best turbo back pressure ratio and is the biggest turbo you can fit the best? Let's find out!
Running 1170HP, 680 ft-lbs of torque and in excess of 53 PSI of boost, the English Racing Mitsubishi EVO X is pushing the boundaries and leading the pack to be the fastest Mitsubishi Evolution X in the world. Driver Myles Kerr discusses some of the challenges that come with pioneering a newer platform and where he sees the 4B11 being superior to the proven but now dated 4G63 power plant. Despite what a lot of people think, it does take more than just a healthy bank account to get this done đ€
This Extreme Turbo System built EVO X runs Golden Eagle sleeves, stock stroke GRP Connecting Rods, a modified factory crank, GSC Power Division valvetrain and S3 cams, a Precision 7685 turbo and the MoTeC M150 with John Reed Racing modification brings it all together. The team had some huge drivetrain issues before getting the weight down and the car now runs a Graf h-pattern 5-speed dog box, Shep transfer case, Driveshaft Shop shaft and rear axles with a Mitsubishi 300GT rear diff. The power is currently a fixed 50:50 split and in the clutch department, an Exedy triple carbon clutch and Magnus Motorsports slipper system keep the launches consistent.
Andre and Myles also discuss why the biggest turbo isnât the best, where there is still more weight removal to be done, the 4B11âs advantage of the 4G63 at low to medium power levels and the sweet spot for turbo back pressure when it comes to drag racing.
At the TX2K 2019 event, Myles and the EVO set a new record with an 8.167-second pass at 180.79 MPH so the team is on track and creeping closer and closer to that 7-second pass.
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Who else learnt to count to 10 in Roman numerals thanks to Mitsubishi? Asking for a mate - Taz đšđ»
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I've had 3 Evos: a 2008 X MR in the US, a 1997 IV here in a Japan, and now another 2007 X GSR w/TC-SST, also in Japan. I love the X as a street car. Yeah it's heavier than the 8/9 but it also has a better AWD system which makes it faster in the twisties. Using an Evo X for drag racing, is, IMO, like trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole and complaining it doesn't fit. The 4B11T is an awesome engine and under-utilized by Mitsubishi and the other companies in their conglomerate.
I always learn something new from each upload. Two of my favorite companies in the same video!
Nowhere else on the internet do I learn as much about modern racecar technology. Keep up the great work.
Myles preaching the truth 4g guys hate all you want I love the 4g but the 4b11 is great and hold/produce fully stock internal 500hp reliably vs a stock 4g63. Graf 5 spd dogbox ftw đȘ
Didn't waste 1 second getting here
Interesting to see the 4b11 progress and how the 4g63 is still moving forward
4G6x is still going to be around. As factory heads and blocks start to become harder to find, the aftermarket will step up. The tuner market in general is woefully behind the V8 market. That is mostly because these are entry level cars and most people as they get older move on, especially when they start having wives and children. 4B11 is a world engine, it is shared with the Caliber SRT-4 and Genesis Coupe. Minor differences in all but Exo X community has a hard time living with that very real fact and hate the other platforms especially the Caliber since it was more CUV than car.
@@dj4monie well they do make billet heads and blocks for the 4g63 so if you can't find factor heads or blocks oh well pay some more hello billet đ.
Anthony Thomas V8s have nearly 60 years over turbo 4cyc cars
Really the modern golden era of Japanese performance engines and cars of this nature is only 20-30 years old
They have gone faster in a shorter amount of time vs all the years and head start the V8 has along with power and development
Turbo era was the first of true power in the 4 cyc world. Again still very very young and new.
@@dj4monie evo definitely isnât a entry level car lmao..more lik a s2k or rx8 is something entry level lol
@@ChristopherWB there is no way u said thatâŠ.
This was great! Covered everything I wanted to know. That "slipper" was interesting.
I feel like a better Evo X owner just for watching this video. Thanks for all the great insights! \m/
you are the best car host around at the moment, i really love this technical talk
Cheers Beau! I'll pass your comment onto Andre, I'm sure he will appreciate it =) - Taz.
love the EVO content, keep them comin! 4B11 the future!
âMylesâ ahead of the competition. Ha.
I love the 'Kerr' that went into this comment. Top pun job! - Taz đšđ»
I always love videos like this! thanks for sharing with everyone!
Liked.. *hit that button while the pre adds were playing, I just knew some Mitsubishi talk was gonna be the goods
Great interview as always!!
These interviews are great! Thanks for providing such good content.
Can you explain the less than 1:1 back pressure and how that works? Seems physically impossible to me.
It's not, sizing your turbocharger correctly, along with cylinder head flow, exhaust flow and exhaust camshaft will all play a roll getting 1:1. It is not impossible but unlikely with the vast majority of home and even professional builders of 4 cylinder engines. It's hard to do in the V8 world... Just live with a little backpressure, everybody else does and still manage to go quicker and quicker.
Hey Scott! This is on Andres list for an Instagram post. Keep an on out via HPA101- instagram.com/hpa101/- Taz.
I wonder if the 4B11T will become the same thing the 4G63 is today in about 10-15 years. Great video
Yes I was pondering the same thing. So many different factors play a role in that right from the basics like availability through to the demand for aftermarket development. Time will tell - Taz.
@@hpa101 Well in overall availability. The engine was seen in the Hyundai Genesis Coupe and Dodge Caliber SRT-4. But I believe the 1.8L and the 2.4 N/A (R/T) engines in the Caliber all use the same engine block and are both DOHC I believe. So with millions of Calibers on the road, there is a ready supply of engine blocks. The Caliber SRT-4 had variable valve timing on the intake only I believe, I don't know about the Genesis turbo engine. Another factory in development is the fact that both Diablosport and HP Tuners are available for the Caliber SRT-4. Only about 5,000 cars were built though and given the tiny community we're talking a handful of people are even interested in going over 500 hp. I've always wanted a Caliber SRT-4 after my Neon SRT-4 because I like creature comforts and the Caliber is a tech wonder compared to the very basic and bare bones Neon SRT-4. Most of the really fast FWD Hondas employ clutch slipper valve as well, however that memo hasn't made it out to the rest of the FWD drag racing community, it's an EGO thing...
@@dj4monie Hyundai helped design the 4b11 with Mitsubishi and Chrysler that's why the genesis coupe motor is similar but also it's a lot different
@Anthony Thomas: I was also referring to 4g63 availability too with that comment. As I mentioned, so many factors. We'll see =)
@rushking19: I believe the 4g63 was in a number of Hyundais too, or at least some license built version. Coincidentally I can hear a 4g63 powered Hyundai rally car on the dyno right now - Taz.
@@hpa101 If you've ever seen the yt channel Jafromobile he has a "4g63" Hyundai elantra it's really a Galant block with a Hyundai 1.6 head but it's all the same parts as a 4g63 because Mitsubishi casted parts for Hyundai apparently
The reason he stopped bending rods is because when he cut down the rod journal (most likely honda diameter) it effectively lengthens the rod a bit improving rod ratio putting less stress on it.
Exceptional as usual !!!!
Awesome as always, he seems like a really nice dude!
Evo X went 8.16 @180mph at Houston Raceway in March so think this video is from a few months back.
This interview was before the run at the same event ;)
From the description: "At the TX2K 2019 event, Myles and the EVO set a new record with an 8.167-second pass at 180.79 MPH so the team is on track and creeping closer and closer to that 7-second pass. "
Great result! - Taz.
Great content! Thank you for clarifying things đ
Great video đ
Thanks mate! - Taz.
Such a cool video
Please make a tech talk with Extreme Tuners Evo 9
If we see the car at an event we're at and they're keen to chat, we sure will =) - Taz.
so much knowledge from the host
Crank journal sizing is a big key especially in the vw aircooled world
Canât wait for domestic Vs import this year đ€đŒ
Thanks for another great video.
Andre would you recommend the Haltech Elite 2500 over the G4+ fury? I've noticed you guys use both on your channel! For a street car Subaru STI. Thanks!
Alex
Can you elaborate more about the turbo back pressure below the boost pressure topic? I do not know it is achievable while 1:1 ratio is known best ratio you can get.
This is on Andres list for an Instagram post. Keep an on out via HPA101- instagram.com/hpa101/- Taz.
Can some of this engineering be applied to the 4B11 derivatives like the G4KD engine to make reliable power or would it be better to just swap the G4KD for a 4B11 once off?
This 4G versus 4B argument over the years is getting old tbh if you ask me. Itâs called the Evolution for a reason. Whatâs the point in calling it an evolution if itâs not gonna evolve? It always evolved from first evo to the 10. Changing the motor design meant evolving. In my eyes, itâs an upgrade.
Yes, but there is also the element of comparing a stock engine from the factory to one that has been modified, and what is available in the aftermarket for each option/the problems that need to be overcome etc etc etc - Taz.
Loving all the information. What's happening with the reduction in big end bearing diameter, how does this allow for a stronger rod?
This was a great video, the only thing I didn't understand was why did the bigger journal bearing bend the piston rod. Was it the reciprocating mass putting too much force in the ROD ? I remember back in the day it was the opposite.
This probably the only big TQ evo X I have ever seen
Smaller rod journal, you can make a bigger rod on the Big end
@@andreasanai3542 I kinda under stand that logic but shaving down a mm to get mm in stroke is going to prevent the rod from bending is where I don't understand.
Stroke is the same, the rod is physically bigger - Taz.
@@hpa101 ohh so I am guessing the bend was at the weakest part of the material ?
I like to hear all the details about the engine build. đ€€
I'm part of a family owned Mitsubishi dealer where the family and most employees are car people, and I deal with many Evo Xs, so that makes me especially interested whenever your videos or lessons cover these kinds of cars. The last thing I did at work today see one the family's 1G Eclipse Turbo cars make it's maiden drive after a 600hp build that's been a few years project I've spent considerable time overseeing. What's interesting is how incredibly reliable the Evo X is as long as it's stock.
Ive been very reliable at 550whp stock engine and drivetrain.
@@WynterK Great to hear, mate. They are really great cars that I'm glad you've had the pleasure of enjoying. I'm just getting word in that it runs great, pulls hard, and no leaks or issue checking it out on a lift after and hour long drive.
@@WynterK Yeah and Caliber SRT-4 owners were grenading them left and right because they lacked control over the management of the engine. Now they have control and most of the owners are ignorant of this so platform development had died. I want to revive that and plan on buying one very, very soon. The stock turbo will do nearly 400whp, it is because of that head. Glad to know it will hold 550whp....
As a dealer/part of a dealership, what do you mean when you say you "oversee" the build of something like that?
In Australia if you modify your car, you're considered to be the spawn of satan in a dealer's eyes. They want to get as far away from you as possible. It's even worse if you own an import.
@@pyrhoe We are the rare dealer that is completely reasonable about modified cars because most of us that work there have them and are into that sort of thing.
Overseeing that build means: My friend/co-worker who owns that car is not a mechanic but does his own work. Especially with a car like that, one needs to generally understand forces/clearances/stresses and mechanical interaction between parts to build something like that. I hangout and do my own thing when he's working on it, but watch/advise/teach as he works to make sure critical things don't get overlooked and are properly assembled and installed.
Badass video
Thanks mate! - Taz.
@@hpa101 by far the most in depth import interviews keep it up!! Would love to share our drag mr2 build with you
We'll be back to TX2K for sure if that's something you race at yourself? - Taz.
@@hpa101 unfortunately were in Ohio and tx2k wont be an option for us this season but were trying desperately to be at world cup finals
Would love to see some in house HP Acadamey tuning of the evo x!
Good job to the whole team building this beast!....there are still evos which can run high 7's tho...
Yes it's quite a feat and we're excited to see what comes next. There are also other cars in the 6's that are much faster than EVO's with the same engine capacity. Where you do draw the line of what is an OK comparison to a different build and engine? đ- Taz.
Isn't valve acceleration faster and more aggressive cam profiles be used with the Roller Rockers ?
Andre and Myles look related.
Awesome video. Why still H pattern?
No need for it yet I guess =) - Taz.
I'm not sure if you have made a lesson on it, but can you do a lesson on using ECUflash, I'm still having issues on making definitions for my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer. I'm able to make modifications to my maps, but I've been told my definitions are out dated some how
It's on the way, however, we won't cover making your own definitions, we'll only cover the tuning side of things. You need a completely different skillset to define your own maps - Taz.
Great car, but why is ACD being compared to a variable torque system like ATTESA? ACD cant actively bias power front to rear, it only controls difference in slip between them up to maximum available clamping force of the clutch plates. It's still a fixed 50:50 split mechanically.
Two smart cookies right there...
supercarsuspect need something like this
Is ayc active yaw control?
Yes.
Rewatch the video, it's been removed.
That minivan sure does move out ;)
Minivan? What is wrong with people like you? It's a larger car than the previous gen Evo but in lots of ways much better. I remember the first DSM cars, I remember when the Evo's first appeared in NA. Ya'll were breaking things left and right, so don't get all high and mighty because other people have spent time and MONEY to figure sh*t out so you don't have to.
@@dj4monie lol gahdamn it was a joke. I've taken Ls to a couple Xs in my 700hp IX. They can be very fast (with lots of work & $). But you don't see many over the 550awhp for very good reasons.
Why would the flat tappet buckets of the 4B11 be better than the roller cam on rocker arm of a 4G63? Just looking at the GSC S3 specs, the roller cam has much more lift in a shorter duration, and the R2 has a greater major intensity and even more lift with even shorter duration. My V8 experience is that lifter diameter is important and roller cams blow flat-tappet cams, like the 4B11, away. Why would this be different here?
Sidebar: don't F1 engines have rockers with a de facto roller cam, instead of a roller using a DLC-coated rounded contact on the rocker, directly over the valve?
Rocker arm got ratio
this reminds me of k series vs b series, the k series flow better but the b series has that lower compression and you can turn up and turn up and turn up the boost
i forgot you can take more weight out of a awd car then you can a rwd or fwd car
The best
No hate. Iâve been saying it.
kinda odd how RWD cars seem to launch like beasts while the AWD ones have more trouble with launches
lockjawjak no awd is worlds faster off the line.
@@chriskarsseboom2200 Maybe I just haven't seen them, I see a lot of insane horsepower AWD cars fairly hesitant off the line, maybe its one of those things that because it isn't so brutal looking it seems slower
@@stevenly4085 yeah that must be it, that and gearbox as well. Twice the traction must be rough as hell on the box and cases so they just have to take it smoother rather than launching the fuck out of it and controlling the wheel spin like RWD hahaha
Bagus semua mobilnya Hadir nyimak ya
It's pretty fast , but still a long way from the 4g63 DSMs
I agree
đ
Good video but WTF happend to him at 5:04
đđđ
I dnt even care what mitsi engine is in it, if it can be built solid to do as many passes possible with all the mods under the sun applied to it?.....I'd happily stuff it into Andre Simons old blue Evo đđ€đŻđ€
I wish my evo ran sivins bro
One day bro, one day - Taz.
4B11 should have been a iron block with the new head just saying
Subaruâs were still first to 7s đđ» ahaha all jokes aside, always learning new things watching these and taking it to my own car to help improve my car
Where? When? Evo 3 went years ages ago lol
Rozay CA white bullet. Look it up on 1320 video they covered it all
Andy Forrest was actually the first 7 second AWD Subaru. White Bullet was the first 4 cylinder a few years later.
Here's Andys car which ended up doing Time Attack: czcams.com/video/s4F1TTmiy58/video.html - Taz.
I'm tryna remember the name of the evo 3 that ran 7.9 like more than 10 years ago. Will tell you shortly, but that was the first 7 sec car
High Performance Academy I should have been more specific
7sec frome greece
That's an older 4g63 powered EVO, this is a different chassis and engine, but yes it is very fast =)
Coincidentally English Racing are also only .019 milliseconds off that record with their other EVO too - Taz.
www.dragimportnews.com/top-10/quickest-awd-evo/
eye contact was way more intense in the last vid... I'm disappointed...
We'll work on it again for the next interview ;) - Taz.
Motec e150 ecu
M150, but close ;) - Taz.
High Performance Academy thankyou! Had to remind myself to look it up and get corrects in case I misheard đ
We generally make sure there are proper subtitles on there and not just auto ones too, they can help if something is said really quickly or in a 'weird to you accent' just for future reference as well ;) - Taz.
High Performance Academy oh okay, I didnt notice so thats great to know! This channel earned a like, sub and future viewer! Glad I found it!!
4G63T FTW..... No one can mimic it.....
Older, fatter, faster
ĐĐ”ŃĐ”ĐČДЎОŃĐ” ĐœĐ° ŃŃŃĐșĐžĐč !
I would if I knew more Russian :) - Ben
Driver mod duhh lol
4b11 vs 4g63 reminds me alot of k series vs b series. k series is a better engine that flows alot more and is stronger from factory (possibly the only difference from iron 4g vs aluminum 4b) but we still see b series on top in the turbo world. love these tech talks
Another major diffrence is the valve train, 4B11 has shimbucket valves. Vs 4G63 hyralic lifter/rocker arm style. A huge improvement when it comes to high preformance engines.
@@blu3flare25 tru that. k series got a vtc system to go with the traditional vtec which would modulate timing too for a smoother vtec changeover and power area under curve. i-vtec vs vtec but i still prefer old school
Laughing how the Evo X is just getting crapped on lol. I owned one, and wish I didn't.
How come?
Josue Aguilar the car itself is a VERY heavy car. That hinders the power to weight ratio. The handling is also unlike the 8/9 to where it is more tamed. I also couldâve made more power with what I put into it if I had a 8/9. I live and learn, and it was a good learning experience.
@@colinbarrineau3102 the x is 1sec faster around test track the evo 9
what do you mean you idiot?
the fastest evo is from greece
Yep thanks. We know about Extreme Tuners. This is the fastest EVO X :) - Ben