Barely Contained Rage: An Open Letter to Danaher and Cepheid
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- MASSIVE UPDATE: Thanks to hard work by tbfighters.org and our many partners, DANAHER HAS AGREED TO MAKE 0 PROFIT ON THEIR STANDARD TB CARTRIDGES. Learn more about the deal, brokered by the Global Fund, USAID, and the Stop TB Partnership, here: www.theglobalfund.org/en/news...
Let Danaher and Cepheid know how you feel on social media:
danahercorp...
/ danahercorp
search/top?q...
LinkedIn: / danaher
In which John tries to control his rage at Danaher and Cepheid, the corporations that are using a printer-ink business model to overcharge for tuberculosis tests, thus resulting in millions of people going undiagnosed every year, many of whom will die.
Learn more: msfaccess.org/time-for-5
Thanks to Duck for the Pantone memes, Rosianna Halse Rojas for images and editorial insight, Dr. Carole Mitnick of Harvard for her help understanding this, everyone at MSF and PIH, and all the nerdfighters who worked together to make tbfighters.org
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MASSIVE UPDATE: Thanks to hard work by tbfighters.org and our many partners, DANAHER HAS AGREED TO MAKE 0 PROFIT ON THEIR STANDARD TB CARTRIDGES. Learn more about the deal, brokered by the Global Fund, USAID, and the Stop TB Partnership, here: www.theglobalfund.org/en/news/2023/2023-09-19-global-fund-stop-tb-partnership-and-usaid-announce-new-collaboration-with-danaher-to-reduce-price-and-increase-access-to-cepheids-tb-test/
This isn't the end of the work--the price on the XDR cartridge still needs to come down--but it is very, very significant.
Danaher's socials:
instagram.com/danahercorporation/?hl=en
twitter.com/DanaherCorp
facebook.com/search/top?q=danaher%20corporation
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/danaher/
Thanks for being here with us. -John
Is it internationally available? if i use the right prefix, of course
o7
@@ravenite-void Yes. Save some money and call this toll free line: 888.838.3222 -John
Will do! Thanks John
thanks a lot John!
I never say this, but: Please share this video widely. :) -John
Roger roger
Heard
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Roger that *grapple guns out of frame*
Heard, chef.
Ooph. I worked for a Danaher subsidiary for almost 10 years. This one hurts.
We'd have these quarterly update meetings where the CEO and other executives would get on the call and tell everyone how amazing the company is doing, stock price up, profits up, revenue up. And they'd even touch on all the amazing things the products were doing around the world.
But during question time, (brave) employees would ask questions like, "hey we make a bunch of water treatment products, are we doing anything to help the indigenous communities have better access to clean water?"
And the executive would squirm and give a wishy-washy political answer and then move on.
Excited to be a part of the pressure campaign, wish I did more when I was on the inside!
Thank you for being here with us and for sharing your experience. It sounds like you had some amazing co-workers. Glad you're part of the pressure campaign now!
Yours and a few other comments I've seen indicate there could be repercussions for employees who speak up. I wonder if you have any suggestions for how to approach it? Or maybe there's a way we can help bring employees together as a block, rather than more vulnerable individuals. Or maybe employees could point out publicly accessible information that we could focus on... 😉🤷♀️
Thanks for sharing!
@@shaidydreamerI don't think it was fear of repercussions, necessarily. I think it was just sort of a cynical understanding that it's all talk, no action with this kind of stuff.
Their company slogan is something like "Helping Realize Life's Potential".
But let me tell you, this 100-200% markup is standard procedure for all of their companies.
@@zcmini000 Having worked for one of their subsidiaries as well, I am not surprised. Gotta keep growing, right? Profits only up.
I worked for Cepheid for a little more than 5 years. I was proud of the fact that I felt like I was making a difference in the world. Danaher and Cepheid valuing profits over people is directly against their company mission and everything they tout over newsletter emails and quarterly reports. It pains me, and angers me to see the rotten leadership go too far.
Working in regulations, leadership would have us pull out of countries (aka not register the tests with health authorities, not allowing them to be sold) because either the cost of registration would be higher than the profit they could make, or it would simply take them too long to get paid by third party groups like the Red Cross or government agencies (because of course sales and finance wanted their money in the same month as the tests were sold).
Leadership always bragged about how we’re helping people. But that can’t happen if you can’t even sell the product in that country. It’s so depressing. On top of that, the CEO claiming record profits, then laying off 10,000 people in a day and shutting down a brand new multi million dollar manufacturing plant. Make it make sense Cepheid! Align your mission to your actions. Be the decent company you claim to be so you might actually go down in history as one of the good ones.
The actual mission of all publicly-traded corporations is to make as much money as possible. Anything else they say is a lie.
This is called "shareholder value". It involves a change in attitudes in the 80´s and a series of legal decisions since then, and it is - not joking - going to end the world if we can´t curb it.
"align your mission to your actions" - they just might. a la google ditching its "don't be evil" creed. might be unpleasantly surprised how much a good position can stop a mask off move from killing a company
Capitalism will always do what it does, regardless of the stated mission. The real mission of any for-profit company is to pay ever-increasing dividends to investors.
Thank you for sharing! I can't imagine how disheartening it must have been for you and others who got into it to help people, only to find your hands were tied by corporate greed.
Your efforts were helpful and mattered, despite the behavior of the execs. I hope you've found someplace that is a better fit for you.
In the show "Firefly", the main characters are hired to steal a crate without knowing what's inside.
They discover afterwards that it's medicine needed by a colony to treat a nasty endemic disease.
Their Captain, Mal, is in the process of returning the crate when he's found by the local sheriff.
The sheriff says something close to "A man in your position has a choice to make."
Mal replies, "I don't believe he does."
Possibly my favorite line ever spoken on television.
I understand that the corporations have to make money to continue existing, but still don't understand how there's any question here.
God, I miss Firefly. Mal was such a well written character - a soldier still fighting a war that was already lost by being a criminal in the most honest fashion. Forgiving, kind, a man of his word, and unquestionably loyal.
Also, Nathan Fillion is handsome as hell.
There's laws in place that require a company to make as much money for its shareholders as possible, no matter how unethically they have to act to make those profits. From what I know, a company can legit get sued by its shareholders for making decisions that could impact profity negatively, which is just a distopian nightmare imo.
@@beardiemomGenuinely, shareholders and the entire concept of the stock market was a bad idea. Remove that, and we might have a chance to turn this mess we've created around before we destroy ourselves. Keep it, and corporations drive humanity into the ground.
People are just greedy. When you’re trying to survive poverty or scarcity, acquisitiveness can save your life… but unfortunately it doesn’t get tamped down when you’re rich. Sometimes it actually gets worse because your social status has survival value too… and most of what rich people see as status is “How Big Is Your Number.”
Basically in order to curtail this human instinct with reason, we’d have to value emotional maturity a lot more and enforce it by law in some way (required psychiatric care maybe?). But a lot of the traits that make poor people’s lives hell - narcissism, Machiavellian manipulation, psychopathy - are hard to treat BECAUSE people with those traits actively resist the concept that anything is wrong with them. And since we don’t have a sufficiently collectivist society to punish that behavior, they all have the “liberty” to continue harming others.
Corporations have to make money to continue existing, but they don't *have* to exist in the first place
Holy crap, I work for Danaher! I will definitely be calling and voicing my concerns.
The call is coming from inside the house!
Yesssss!!! So glad you're here :)
Awesome
Good luck!
Thank you! Best of luck.
I'm here to chew gum and despise big pharma, and I'm all outta gum
Let's get this done 👍👍👍
glad to have you on our side, laundry hamper!
😂
Get some gum to refresh your mouth, and get calling! 😃
As an Infectious Disease specialist that battles TB on the frontlines, but was a nerdfighter before I was a doctor: oh God I love Nerdfighteria. Thank you John your efforts are noticed and highly appreciated. This saves lives!
Thank you for being a nerdfighter and for your work on TB! DFTBA!
I work for one of the operating companies Danaher owns but not one listed here. I plan on sharing this with my coworkers and saying something. Thank you John for spreading awareness I myself didn't know the situation and now I can do something about it.
Sending you and your coworkers the best of luck, stranger
Good on you for being willing to say something - we need more people who will speak up! But as a consultant that works on Danaher and all of its’ op-cos I’ll just say be careful in how you approach that conversation. They don’t play around with internal employees questioning their intentions or decisions 😬
This is your moment to help make a big difference in the world for millions of people. Go forth and slay!
My dad works for IDBS, another one of their companies. I’m gonna show him this video!
The concept that a private company recieves public funds to develop a product they make a fortune off with no requirement to give anything back in return is ridiculous. If research is done (that isn't a threat to national security or the like) with public funds it should be REQUIRED to be made public and not pattentable
It's like we have chosen to make a really inefficient socialized health system.
@@spanqueluv9er How did you end up watching this video? Your rude behavior doesn't seem fitting here.
The "give back" is that the machine now exists. No machine, no one benefits from the research. If products based on public research weren't allowed to be patented, there would be fewer products on the market, which would be a net negative.
The issue here is price.
@@robertbrennan8187 fools exist everywhere, we should ignore them and not waste our time on them
@@spanqueluv9erfound Danaher's CEO's alt account
I just called the first phone number and chatted with the person who answered! Though I was a little nervous, I took deep breaths and was able to articulate the reason I was calling and why I was concerned about their prices. I was redirected to Cepheid's phone number and by their tone, it sounds like they are getting a lot of calls!
Let's keep the pressure on!! Time for 5!!
As someone who has legitimate phone phobia I hope this sounds as sincere as I mean it - thank you, and I am proud of you. I’m about to do the socials and email. Will work up the ovaries for calling. 🎉
I just called the corporate office and they immediately knew what I was there for and said they'd just pass along the concerns. I'm afraid the call center workers will be getting sick of us very quickly. Time to set a timer and call again every hour.
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystarsI have phone phobia too! I tend to get the shakes 😅 it's okay! You just need to be polite and tell them It's Time For Five!
I did the same and somehow got tech support and we chatted for quite a while. We connected as "the little guy" and he said he would take my concern to management and actually agreed with what I told him. Now, he may have been lying to me, but it's all I can do.
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystars I have severe phonophobie (as I call it) and I am shaking like a leaf right now, but I called. It was a nice chat.
TIP! I have experience being on the side of receiving large amounts of emails from campaigns like this. It's really useful to change them up, especially the subject line, as they usually get filtered for these to stop them from going into the main inbox and getting automatically deleted.
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Every day I change the subject to "Good morning and Happy ________ (whatever day of the week it is". Today I wrote "Good morning and TGIF!" haha
It's late here so I'll definitely be calling in the morning. I worked customer service for a few years and it's really helpful to be kind, respectful, and compassionate to the person on the other end. I know everyone here understands that. Let's go change the world!! I'm ready to do my part!
Boosting this to the top
can someone give us tips on what to say? i sent an email but im nervous to call
@@firefancy9928 Yes, there are some lovely templates available at the tbfighters.org site, and the direct link for call templates is here (there are several options, don't feel locked in to the first one!): docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTh05tEoyCsh8oEWScWM9n41B1pcUeVNGFcUDqdlcILHvVUB2_LsK4voMTdKPdEQwmjMHRBaoalG259/pub#h.p2qolchk1zy8
@@firefancy9928if you look up at the top of the comment section there is a comment with a read more. In the read more is a bunch of links including one link to a template for both emails and phone calls
@@firefancy9928 The tbfighters link has templates for emails/phone calls, so you can look through those and pick one that you feel most comfortable with. Scroll down and the links are in the 2nd to last section.
@@firefancy9928checked pinned comment
“Building something is only valuable if the people who need it most can access it” -words to live by
I’m a lab tech in a hospital in a first world country and can attest that even my managers complain about the cost of these cartridges, I cannot imagine what it’s like to try to fund these machines in some of the poorest countries in the world
I used to work at a biotech company that manufactured antibodies and the cost to produce was similar, (under $5) while price to purchase was anywhere from $10-$200.
On the one hand you want to be part of the solution to curing these ills, but on the other hand, when it's clear that the people running the company are laser focused on profit, it's not something I could bring myself to support. The CEO used to frequently check in on sales to see if we'd had a "million dollar week" and at that point the avarice was transparent and I quit
This GeneXpert test costs about 250 ringgit (53.45 USD) in Malaysia...yes it can go higher for children.
Don't worry, they make up for it by charging the patient $300.00 for it.
@@theprecipiceofreason you act like they don’t already. I was literally billed this time last year over $500 for one of these quad cartridges. It’s atrocious
@@PoniesNSunshine I get it. Same boat over here. We love hearing them brag about the hundreds of millions they bring in that never gets turned into cost savings for patients or higher wages for employees /s
I called and talked to a wonderful customer service rep who was in tech support but got me a case opened up for customer service and helped me email my concerns and even gave me a confirmation number for my report. She was super helpful with giving me other email address that have been posted here to also hopefully get more visibility but like John said the people working for these companies care too and often are unaware about the atrocities being done by management so please be kind when you are calling in! DFTBA TO EVERYONE AND YOURSELF! 💕
Thank you for your efforts and to your customer service rep! It's so lovely when things work well. DFTBA!
Emailed and called only took 15 minutes! Let’s keep the pressure on them. This is the most amazing and engaged community so if they think we will back down they have a pleasant surprise coming. Thank you @vlogbrothers for your selflessness and humanity.
Sent an email! took about 10 minutes ! :o
We need a new charity: Engineers without borders who take devices like this, reverse engineer them and re-design them to get around patents, and then open source that information. If the Chinese can infringe on the worlds IP in the name of easy profit and get away with it, then surely a charity can do the exact same in the name of good.
Agreed. I'm very tired of everyone in the world capitulating to an ever-more-unreasonable system of IP rights. It's far past time for some high seas in the medical area.
I was thinking the same thing! Open source FTW.
Change laws, don't break them. The IP rights are the reason that companies spend so much money on researching treatments. If other people simply take those rights away entirely, then there is no reason for them to do that anymore. But the rights can be tailored by governments to balance what's good for the developers with what's good for society as a whole.
I'm sympathetic, but it's better if we can bend these corporate entities to our will without breaking the law. I hesitate to recommend an illegal course of action that undermines our social fabric when we can accomplish the same thing through action campaigns (as NerdFighteria recently demonstrated!). In other words, is the autocratic Chinese government really the best role model?
@@YvonTripperpart of the video did point out that a significant amount of the investment into products like this is publicly funded too, the investment wouldn't dry up overnight if IPs were harder to extend or had stricter requirements about reasonable cost, particularly when in receipt of taxpayer funds.
I'm living for this era of John Green going after greedy pharmaceutical companies
People have won nobel peace prizes for less
Same. It's great.
This channel is wild.
Last video: GIRAFFES MAKE NOISES AT NIGHT!
Current video: Let us pressure these evil greedy companies to save millions of lives.
10/10
Only on vlogbrothers! And agreed, 10/10. ^^
this is exactly the kinda content i signed up for those ~12 years ago, and they never stop delivering
All the news you need to know.
Tom Lum is looking for work if you know any software development positions.
I wonder if the VlogBs, the Greens, have a position.
I never, ever make CZcams comments. But I've been watching John and Hank since before the Deathly Hallows video. Been a Nerdfigher since before Nerdfighteria was a thing. And righteously angry John is and has always been my absolute favorite human on the planet.
You and your brother inspire me, John. For so many years and in so many ways, you've inspired all of us. Go get 'em. Esther would be proud.
hi! :)
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An excerpt from Danaher's sustainability report: "Access to healthcare, including access to innovative medical devices and other technologies, is a critically important focus for the global health community and our Company. At Danaher, we believe one of the most significant opportunities we have is to improve access to healthcare." Let's make them put their money where their mouth is.
This is exactly how you talk to corporates
Exactly! Words mean something! ✊
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Yes! I love the internet. These companies can't keep getting away with putting profits over the human right to health.
The sequel we've all been waiting for
It strikes me as intensely cruel to make this machine that poorer countries can afford and then BOOM they have the painful decision to budget how many test cartridges they can afford. The machine is THERE. The people are THERE. The money is not. These companies make money by playing on human suffering, essentially being funded by the charities that send money to help people. Unconscionable.
it is already making an impact on their FB page
I look forward to John's follow-up on Friday, where he announces Nerdfighteria came through and got this thing done.
@@geoffreymaher7169 This one's not gonna be easy, buddy.
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I work in this field, trying to make better and cheaper alternatives to the Cepheid machine. At some point, we heard that though the cartridges cost $10 for LIMC settings, that this was subsidized by global health charities, and Cepheid charges more like $50 in high resource countries. The machine is fiddly too. They might sell it for less than what it costs, but when it breaks down, repairs are often unaffordable.
Look up the 2021 paper "Public investments in the development of GeneXpert molecular diagnostic technology." I saw that mentioned there, too. It was subsidized to the tune of $11.1 million for a $10 price from 2012-2022.
Also, if you write fanfic, thank you, I love your work. I was surprised to recognize the username.
@@kaypgirl haha, I do! And thank you! I really appreciate hearing that!
The Genexpert is such an awesome but finicky machine. Cephied won't even reimburse my lab for the most common error our machine throws, so we are out of pocket for failed cartridges. I think they charge my lab more than $10 per cartridge tho ...
Thanks for sharing! I work for Cepheid and know how much it costs to manufacture those cartridges so hearing this makes me very sad. I will try to raise my concerns!
Please do, and thank you!
Tell us!
These are the days that make me feel less helpless bc I am reminded of the power we have collectively. Thanks for reminding me. Let’s do this!
Thank you. In all seriousness, seeing this comment helps me with this as well.
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You're not helpless at all
@@levipeterken4020 I didn’t say I was, just that I feel it. Feelings can be real but not true - that’s why I’m glad this video reminded me it isn’t true 🙂
We ride!
I just got diagnosed with TB as a 24 year old, healthy, non smoker, non drug user who has never left the US or been to any TB hotspots, and the only reason it got caught was because my doctor ordered the test on a whim while trying to identify a mystery hearing problem. According to my doctors this could have been in my blood for years before and many years after if I hadn't randomly gotten this test. Latent TB (the version of TB I have) is essentially just this time bomb in your system that can activate if your immuno-defense gets too low and it is very strange to think that when I got Covid a couple years ago (or any disease affecting my immune system) I could've died from a disease hidden in my body that I hadn't heard about being a problem in my country since the 1920's.
Wow. Wishing you a speedy recovery!
Holy shit, I'm glad you caught it!!
Thank you for sharing this!! All the best to you.
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Tb is so widespread in india it is assumed everyone has latent tb. Only active tb is treated.
Just a reminder for everyone to continue to do this over the next couple of weeks/months. Keep calling, schedule emails, whatever it is you want to do. If we do this over a week and then it fizzles out then they'll just sit it out and weather the storm, but we need to show them that this isn't going to go away.
Mr. Green, you have discovered the ultimate power of Nerdfightaria. The collective empathy is utterly mind blowing and now we’ve seen that together, with your guidance, we can really make a change in this crazy world. Never stop. We’re here for the revolution and after growing up watching these videos, I’m certain world peace is possible. You’re making it happen daily. Thank you.
When you said they owned Pantone my rage multiplied. They've turned Pantone into a subscription system, charging people to use their colours. This after making sure every graphic designer used their colours (because it was a free, precise way to denote colour). So I already hated them before I even knew about this. Bring on the hate.
Avarice Apricot, indeed 😡
As soon as he said Pantone, I thought, "Yeah, that tracks."
Same!!! When John mentioned that they owned Pantone, my instant reaction was "oh those f*cks"
Corporations don't exist to make consumers' lives better. They exist to own things and extract money.
And so many corporations exist to just buy, own, destroy, and discard other companies with meaningful and useful products.
Same reaction I had.
John, you may not have enjoyed being a CEO, but you are a wonderful leader. I hope you can embrace that because we nerdfighters are happy to have you.
I like to imagine how great a job John Green would do as a president - miffed all the way that his fans had had the pure, unmitigated gall to write his name on their election ballots.
YES!!!❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉🎉
@@theograice8080no doubt he'd be a good one, or at least striving to do his best, but I really wouldn't wish that job on him. he deserves to be the world's only ethically sourced unpaid intern and make memes in-between trying to save the world from TB
"It's time to put people over profits," is just wild because even at 5$ they would still be making a profit, just not as much, and CEOs/shareholders can't stand that. Thank you for making these videos. Honestly, something like this once every couple months, could be pretty powerful in changing the world. Rallying the troops together for a good cause, I love it. I hope we can make change together :)
Nerdfighter Community: Taking on barriers to healthcare due to corporate greed, across the board. We hear you and are ready to help! Thanks for being so awesome, John.
When professional shareholders' money is used to invest in stuff, they get control over it. When taxpayers' money is used to invest in stuff, we get nothing.
I had an aunt that had died of TB when i was maybe 12. I knew of TB as one of the Oregon Trail diseases and that was it. It never sat right with me that something so well understood for so long could still be such a problem.
Don’t forget to like this video! The algorithm needs this info spread around, unlike tuberculosis
the fact that they own Pantone makes the rest of this situation make way more sense because the graphic designers out there are all too aware how much of a rip off Pantone is, especially since the actual service is pretty useful
I was thinking the exact same thing
pantone is good as a color matching reference. and it has become a somewhat standard in several graphic design industries. yet i have never met anyone that actually uses the pantone ink. if there was a equivalent open source color matching system, i think people would use it. and maybe there is but it is not marketed (because there is no marketing funds) or the printed coated and uncoated pantone charts are easy to use. I just hate when coworkers misplace them and need to spend a fortune to get new ones.
Yea. My rage multiplied when he said that.
Oh yeah, me too. I’d heard about the Pantone nonsense. The fact that it’s the same parent company just FITS. Greedy corporations being greedy in new and/or obscure ways. Who woulda thought? *facepalm*
@@samplesandtests For what it's worth, Stuart Semple has a Pantone Adobe copycat library called Freetone. I haven't used it, but wanted to share.
as an epidemiologist, those Cepheid PCR panels have been a GAME CHANGER in the field of ID. Getting them across the world will be INCREDIBLE. We can not underestimate how important this is.
YES YES YES!
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Thank you for this!
Out of curiosity, what is so game-changing about the Cepheid cartridges? It looks like just a PCR test. Any lab could run their own. It's just a question of whether the cost of the cartridges is higher than the cost of labor.
¨ẅe cannot underestimate how important this is¨ ... fwiw... I thiknk youŕe saying that backwards... If we can´t underestimate, then however unimportant I propose it, you are saying it is less important than that.... I guess you mean overestimate?
I almost cried watching this. We face the inequality problem way too often, usually in situations where our actions, even though useful, are insignificant compared to the problem. This is one of the rare cases where we can actually help with one clear action and mesurable conclusions. Amazing video!
I wrote a lengthy email--not just to the investor relations email, but to as many of their top executives as I could source an email for. I hope this helps to add pressure 💪💪. Thank you John for caring about people, and thanks to all of you in the comments for rallying behind the cause
This is what influencers should be about. Not garlic kale smoothies to detox your liver, but this: compassionate, firm, rational, evidence-based encouragements for companies and governments and people to do better.
Thank you!
as john oliver very wisely put it: "corporations are people. specifically, sociopaths"
They certainly aren't the kind of people we would willingly associate with...
"Building something is only valuable if the people who need it most can access it." is my new favorite quote from you, John. Will will overwhelm them!!!
I work with one of their subsidiaries, they're a pain in the ass.
I think that should be their slogan though - Danaher, choosing profits over people.
Catchy, to the point, and finally honest!
Im scared to think what will happen when this man goes from barely contained rage to 110% unleashed rage
He destroys Tuberculosis with his bare hands
Beware the fury of the quiet man
"RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!"
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who would win in a fight; Hyper-Rage John Green or Ultra Instinct Shaggy?
WE RIDE AT 11 AM EST
So often I feel as an individual that there's these huge problems and how can I possibly be of any help... well I can send an email and post on socials about this very worthy endeavour! Thanks John for letting us know we are part of something bigger and can truly make change happen... and very quickly when we work together!
John, because of you I am currently taking a global and population health course in the final year of my undergrad. In this class we pick a population and disease at the beginning of the semester and write all of our assignments based on our choice. Also because of you, I've picked TB as the disease I want to research and write about and I hope that I'll be able to use my work to make my classmates more aware of the global issues being faced concerning TB. I hope to take this with me into the future as I try to pursue a career in medicine. I also hope that I can use the work I do in this class and will continue to do after to help me to change the system from within. I hope to be the kind of doctor that makes healthcare more widely available and accessible to all. Thank you for being such an incredible role model for those of us who want to see change in the world.
It’s people like you that restore my faith in humanity.
@@emmakane6848 this whole community restores my faith in humanity tbh
We have a Cepheid Genxpert at our hospital, I'm a biomedical engineer overseeing a regional laboratory and can confirm all of Johns statements in this video are factual.
Thank you John for bringing more awareness to this subject and Danaher's dishonest dealings.
So say hypothetically someone wanted to reverse engineer and offer bootleg tests... would that be possible? Asking for a friend.
@shouldb.studying4670
Reminder that stealing IP is a court case.
And that doctors without borders probably has that study published somewhere identifying the $1.50 in magic that makes the $3.50 cartridge worth more than the extremely cheap casing.
@@shouldb.studying4670 Probably not. It took a lot of money and even if they didn't enforce the patent, the know-how is very important. John mentioned in a livestream that there is another machine out of India that's a competitor to the gene xpert machine, that seems to be more willing to sell cheaper tests, but replacing all the still very expensive machines and scaling up tests is probably 10 years away. And lives can be saved now if the existing infrastructure is able to be used with more affordable tests.
@@shouldb.studying4670 possible? yes. Legal? Actually I don't think it's illegal but anyone manufacturing bootlegs would be at risk of incurring legal issues dependent on the reliability of the bootlegs.
"Genxpert"? The name comes straight out of a dystopian, sci-fi novel.
My dad is an opthalmologist who owns his own practice, so as a small business owner he's pretty laissez faire. But one thing that will get him HEATED is pharmaceutical companies. He told me recently about how a generic drug will be perfectly affordable, then it gets bought by a name brand company and the price shoots up! Most companies try to find a price point that will net them the highest number of sales for the highest possible price. These companies are literally pricing their drugs so that an "acceptable number of people" will be untreated while the rest pay through the nose.
Unacceptable.
You perfectly explained this horrid side of capitalism.
Worst part about brand name vs generic is some times people do NEED to take one or the other because they might use different dyes or preservatives that they may be allergic to and one being $100 s cheaper doesn't mean anything if it will also send them into anaphylaxis
The worst thing is they sometimes slightly change the recipe too. I haven't been able to get my perfectly working meds since 2018 because it got bought up and now the brand name gives me awful side effects, so I have to use less effective alternative medication :/
Thank you for letting everyone know about this. You and Hank and the community you have created are so very valuable. I'm happy to do my part!
@vlogbrothers, I am a teacher who trains Pharmacy technicians and after the Johnson and Johnson storyline, I've turned their attention to you! It is incredibly disheartening to see them start to comprehend how money driven the medical field is and see them questioning why they want to join such a selfish area of expertise, YOU give me and my students hope!!! Please keep up the good work. This CPhT and her trainee's are counting on you!
*waves in Pharmacy Technician*
Just called! It was relatively painless and I made sure to be polite, patient, and let the person I was talking to know that I wasn't angry at them, I wanted my concerns to be passed on to their higher-ups and someone who can actually make decisions within the company to do the right thing. Let's not be rude to call centre employees :) (and let's let them know about #timefor5)
As a call center employee myself (not with that company) I appreciate this very much 👏
I was fortunate to use the Gene Xpert machine as part of carrying out leukemia diagnosis tests for a program for people from LMICs. This project was a collaboration between Cepheid, Novartis and the Max foundation. There's no reason why these companies cannot work with world health foundations to bring last mile healthcare to millions.
Thanks for the good work you do!
This video lit a fire under my butt. I’ve just contacted Danaher. Thank you, John, for explaining the issue so clearly - and for caring. I’m happy to contribute and be one small part in this fight.
I did my part. I sent them several emails, got sent to voicemail twice, and on my third call I actually got a cepheid employee. I kinda freaked out because I wasn’t prepared, so I kinda just barfed out my spiel and hung up, but hopefully something I did helped.
Proud of you!
Presumably with the volume going up from more tests sold and more lives saved this would also reduce the cost of making the tests while also all in the aggregate making the actual loss in profit each year on these not as stark as it might first appear when cutting price in half. Although I suppose long term with more people treated and less spreading of the disease then sales go down, but that's a scenario I think all but the most heartless of execs would love to see play out. Everybody wins, except TB microbes. -Daven
Hi Daven! Nice to see you out in the wild. I agree. I think if they lower the cost to $5 they'd be making a lot more cartridges, giving them higher purchasing power which would lead to lower production costs. They might even consider, _gasp_ donating cartridges to the most needy of places and using that as a tax write-off.
In the end they'd have higher profits, more lives saved, satisfied shareholders, and happier people all around the world.
"Oh no, fewer tests are being sold because the disease is being eradicated? What ever will we do? Oh, I suppose we have all those profitable research products."
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Weird it's like a Quantity over Price model works for products that everyone would use more of if a lower price...
In a way, tho, the GXP is still a great tool with applications we haven't considered yet. The next covid could be nipped in the bud before it even makes headlines.
Nerdfighteria, let’s ride.
As my first year anniversary approaching I wanted to say something, when I found this community I thought it’s the best part about the internet, and now looking back, it’s gotten even better somehow and I don’t know how that’s possible. I want to say thanks y’all and thank you John and Hank for making us decrease world suck, it’s been one of the greatest joys.
Let’s do this.
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Be NerdFighteria Strong
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Thank you for being here with us! And Happy anniversary!!
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John, I am not your mother, I'm actually a fair bit younger than you but I am so proud of you and hank. What you're doing is more than thousands of people would achieve in a lifetime. Keep it up,
All the love,
A humble fan x
My dad is the lead firmware engineer for Cepheid, I doubt he can do much, but I'll be sending this video to him regardless.
Wait wait wait. This is the same company that just started charging subscription fees to access their industry standard color system after they got decades worth of processes dependent on it? I can't believe two things I hate are coincidentally part of the same company in such a convoluted way.
(Also, email sent.)
I have been trying to work out the continuities between the companies and you articulated this so well thank yoy
@@rosiannaI’m not 100% sure about this, but I know that the first modern antibiotic was created by a dye maker, when he noticed that a pigment he created would stain certain bacteria on a microscope slide, but not others. So, he set to work creating a chemical that could selectively kill bacteria without harming other cells. So, the early days of pharmaceuticals started with ink makers. I’m guessing the relationship is a vestige of that.
@@joshmaday1462FASCINATING
I cannot get over the “razor blade business models” bit - makes me feel ill
same.
I mentioned not just TB but a few other tests as well in my email. Fast and accurate tests can save lives with a variety of diagnoses, but only if people can afford them! Thank you for highlighting this need for me Vlogbrothers!
Too bad Hank lied about the profit margins though. With the numbers in the video, gross margin is 70%, not 233% lol
@@moose5445 John is in this video, not Hank. And his information is correct. It comes from the work Partners in Health, Doctors Without Borders, and other organizations have done.
@minimarker3 I trust the information reported is correct, but the profit figures are wrong.
($10-$3)/$10 is a profit margin of 70%. John says that the profit margin is 233%, or even 500%.
@@moose5445 it doesn't work like that. $10/$4.5=2.22=222% In the more extreme case: $15/$3 = 5 = 500% profit margin.
I'm a bit late in starting my efforts but I'm all in for the overnight run and day two. This is what happens when you live on the opposite side of the globe from most of Nerdfighteria. But for sure not all, because I've already seen international questions/answers in the comments to help me. I love this community and I'm so happy to do my small part when I can. DFTBA!
If we don’t keep up the pressure then they’ll just think this was a blip on the radar. By ‘being late’ you’re actually contributing to a more effective long term course of action.
Every bit helps! Don't feel bad for being "late." We each do what we can.
I was two days "late" on J&J, so I was shocked to discover that the problem had already been resolved by the time I learned about it by watching the video. That's the best case scenario though, as it means the campaign was extremely effective.
Good god this opened my eyes. I am a research assistant at a university doing signal transduction work and I do all of the ordering for my lab. I just discovered that Danaher owns the company we get our olgios from. Our university has a partnership with them and they supply PCR primers to the entire university. I’ve had sales reps from another one of their companies reach out to me to buy their kits. I’m looking for the email of their representative to the university now.
Good luck! Thank you for your efforts.
Hah, samesies! My thoughts: Eh, what power do I have, one lonely voice ::: looks at Danaher "who we are" page ::: ... who also happens to be a frequent consumer of custom IDT oligos. Maybe it's time to look into competitors.
Yeah, John said they don't own many public facing companies and I was like "Uh... I recognize a LOT of those names." IDT was a big one for me in grad school. I would guess a LOT of their customers are at universities and nonprofits, spending taxpayer dollars in their own efforts to improve human health. I wonder if scientists would be a receptive audience for this campaign.
Good work! I also recommend emailing Danaher pointing out that you'll be switching and why
It’s a really cool angle on the story. I know personally that hank and sci show played a huge role in getting me interested in science. I’m sure that there are lots of researchers in this community who’d be willing to find alternatives. Hell, I know sigma and thermo are no angels but they also have oglio partnerships with my institution
I work for a non-customer-facing company owned by a company made by Danaher. I’m not even sure most of my co-workers know that Danaher owns our company
Perhaps you could let them know?
Which company?
my best friend works at cepheid in tech support. she's been getting calls all day, which is good... i guess... to see that people care. but at the same time she's completely powerless. a woman literally called and asked "i have a question, can you help me?", my friend said "maybe, what's your question?", and the woman responded "about the mtb testing. can you make it cheaper so people will stop dying?" and hung up. so, guys, keep on the revolution but maybe please be reasonable with the tech support 'cause they get angry callers all the time and it's really not their fault, they're merely workers at cepheid and NOT responsible for anything like that
Thank you!!! My husband works for a call center (not related to this) and the amount of stress on call center workers is intolerable. They are often underpaid, micromanaged, and not allowed to deviate in order to help out or so what they want to say. I love this campaign and will be emailing, but *please* be kind to the call center reps!!!
John saying "nerdfighteria, we're stopping capitalists from making the TB problem worse" is my favorite category of VlogBrothers.
Of course they own Pantone. Can’t companies ever stop at just *one* evil business model?
evidently not this one! These ones?
I think it’s because early pharmaceuticals were developed by ink makers. It’s probably a historical connection.
Ronald Reagen's free market policies started these toxic developements which lead to many companies today acting down right egoistic and misanthropically all over the West.
Honestly it's the same evil business model.
We can demand laws so price gouging is better controlled
Barely Contained Rage John is my new favorite John, but I'll still be giving my respect to Pizza John at the end of the month. Thanks for holding big companies accountable and inviting us to join you.
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Nicely stated. Thank you as an ex-Cepheid employee who worked passionately on the TB innovation and platform.
Thank you for the work you did to help people!
Thank you for your work.
Thanks for sharing this. It is unbelievably important.
This is so crazy, I've used the GeneXpert so so many times! In my hospital in Costa Rica we use it for TB diagnosis (including the drug resistance) and for the detection of antibiotic resistance in bacteria!
It's a great machine, and even though we don't have nearly the numbers of TB cases as in the places you've visited John, it's still a life saver! I remember one case that was in a hospital ward filled with other patients, and because of the test we isolated the patient in an hour! And definitely saved lives.
And for everyone to know, the confirmation of a TB case takes approximately 8 weeks!!! We see it on the microscope as John said, but we also perform cultures growing the bacteria; and these take a maximum of 8 weeks for us to know! And even if at 8 weeks it's negative, we may have done a mistake because of the technique used! So this machine not only takes the confirmation time from 8 weeks to 1 hour, but it's also highly sensitive in the detection of the bacteria!
I was a laboratory scientist for years & we paid much much much more than $10 or $15 per test. We would have loved to pay that little.
It's the Walmart model of volume to lower cost. It's a great test platform but way too expensive.
They say it's to pay for development/research but seems greedy bastards strike again.
Thank you for explaining this! I don't know anything about healthcare or pathogens and I had no idea that a standard test could take so long, I assumed it would maybe take three days to a week. Not 8 weeks!
@@cheyennehawes Yeah, usually bacteria can be grown in culture mediums in usually 1-3 days; but Mycobacterium tuberculosis (the TB bacteria) is very very hard to grow. It needs a very special medium (called Lowenstein Jensen medium, it's very pretty actually lol, google it) with very specific pH and nutritional contents; and even when that's done correctly, it takes a LONG time to grow (up to 8 weeks).
So before PCR tests (such as the GeneXpert cartridge), we would take sputum samples (saliva), use staining techniques to see in the microscope and try to grow it in this medium. If, and it's a very big if, we saw them in the microscope, then the patient is diagnosed. But that is very very hard. Then we'd have to wait for the 8 weeks, and even then, we couldn't be 100% sure that they were negative. So yeah, PCR tests are a life saver.
If you wish to know more about this I can happily explain! It's my job lol
@@sdtayw oh for sure, I can't remember the exact price tag but we have paid definitely more than $100 per test. And we would do sometimes even 4+ per week day! That's $2000 per month. In my country we have the benefit of universal healthcare so the patient didn't really have to pay for this, but I can't imagine if they had to. It's a ton of money.
Eight weeks to an hour for results is just an insane improvement!
Overcharging for the antibiotic resistant tests is actively promoting their spread over no -antibiotic resistance strains!! It's insane how they're actively and knowingly doing this
I added a paragraph in my email about exactly this, because this was my first thought too.
Yeah and they couldn’t possibly benefit from that, a new low for them.
It is insane. It is also capitalism.
Yeah John! You line 'em up and we'll keep knocking 'em down!
I just want to say that these collective movement plans have inspired me so, so much. The way you've chosen two (albeit large) interconnected issues, the lack of hospital care in Sierra Leone, and the lack of balance and equality in tuberculosis treatment, and decided "This is Our Struggle. This is what we want to fight for, and we are going to apply our time, effort, and resources into fighting." Has made me feel so much more uplifted about the world.
There's a term I hear occasionally called "empathy fatigue", the idea that we see too many problems every day, and we can't care about everything, but I don't think that's true. The problem is we're expected to drop everything we're doing to care about the next problem, including the previous problem- We're whiplashed, being pulled in directions that we don't follow through on or are given no direction in following through on. This is how you solve that. By choosing a struggle, choosing a problem, and as you said, politely but impassionately fighting it to the end.
Thank you for the service you and Hank provide. It's so, so beautiful, and so, so, worth it.
It's almost like we shouldn't let private companies profit off this stuff in the first place...
It's almost like we shouldn't allow private ownership of the means of producing any of the things we need to function as a society...
In social-devil-communist Germany, Denmark, Great Britain, Canada, Norway, ... does it work so much better with health care
Agree, but for the moment we have to work within the system we have. People are dying now. There is a solution now. Total reform would be beautiful but pushing for an evil corporation to be less evil will save lives.
There’s profit and then there is unreasonable profit. Pigs get fed hogs get slaughtered.
@@troymcintire2423market consolidation has made sure that profit becomes unreasonable.
I was zero percent surprised to learn that they own Pantone, too, which last year held artists' work created in Adobe hostage if folks didn't agree to pay a $15/month subscription fee -- a fee instituted AFTER the work was done.
Seems price gouging and money grabs are corporate policy for Danaher.
Called them. Screw those people. I am so mad. Lives are beyond worth or cost.
The fight continues! Thank you John.
Keep it up team! Remember to be polite to the poor answering service reps. They are wage workers like us
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Yeah, just call and wish them a nice day. Ask if they can put you through to the CEO.
To the Danaher employees who watch this with unease: we understand you are not your company, but you are responsible for what happens next. Choose humanity.
👏👏👏
Pretty much this really.
well said
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I spent, like, two hours messaging and commenting on everything. Now I've started leaving comments on various news videos here on CZcams asking the channels to cover the story. Let's get Danaher's price gouging covered widely!
Love that! I didn't think to reach out to news videos here. Great idea.
Cepheid has been known as a difficult partner in Global Health circles for years and the market has been screaming for a strong competitor to pressure Cepheid into lower pricing. However, it is incredibly challenging for new market entrants to compete with the $9.98 price per test that was heavily subsidized in the early years and the costs of distribution, sales, logistics and support in low and middle income markets is often prohibitively expensive for many smaller companies. Also, the true cost of the TB test cartridge to hospitals, clinics, etc is closer to $20 in many cases, once shipping, taxes, and other fees are included.
This isn't including that if a TB test is positive or inclusive it has to be rerun. I extremely dislike the 5ml of sputum needed for the test.
Didn't expect to see something relevant to my work while watching on my break! Part of my work is related to cervical cancer research in Malawi and they use the Gene Xpert for HPV testing and access to these tests in LMICs are a challenge! This would be amazing if we can get Danaher and Cepheid to decrease their prices, it would save so many lives!
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Thank you for using your platform to make the world a better place!! I can't believe it's taken this long for TB to come into the public eye, but I'm glad someone's doing it. #timefor5
Thank you for bringing this to our attention - you all are doing amazing things in this world!❤
With $5 tests, they'd make a smaller margin on each test, but sell a load more of them, so the financial hit would be even smaller, all things considered.
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Also call your senators! Not sure if it will make a difference since even though the company is American, the people most affected aren't. But it does tie in neatly to a conversation that's already happening, especially on the Senate health committee, about price gouging on insulin and other prescription medications.
They might not have much that is customer facing, but turns out nerdfighteria includes people who work at medium sized biotch companies that give input on purchesing decisions. Forwarding this around my company.
This really needs to be heard about.
I am usually a silent Nerdfighter but I find the recent calls to action so endlessly inspiring! These companies will definitely hear from me!
Thank you for being here with us and for contacting these companies!
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If you are a university student, your institution may have direct relationships with Danaher subsidiaries (e.g. as preferred vendors). Similarly if you work in a health care system. Putting pressure on those relationships might be a way to put pressure on the almighty bottom lines. Your university or hospital has people who make decisions about which vendors are extra supported and which ones aren't and they have email addresses.
+++ A number of nerdfighters are doing this for their universities and hospitals, and hopefully more will join!
^^^ this is how boycotts work! this would be so much more effective than a week-ish of phone calls tbh...
If you are working in a lab, you can ask your PI and the people in charge of buying new equipment and supplies to not buy from a Danaher subsidiary or not use the services of a Danaher subsidiary
J&J part 2, leggo!! Thanks, John, for informing all of us.
Thank you for informing us about these injustices. I hope we can make a difference by telling them!
You touched on the thing that kills me most often, I make pharmaceuticals, every working day at my current job. I do it in public hospital. I know that every person I work with earns a fair wage that they live happily on. They make the medicine because they want to make medicine. We don’t make it to become super rich. I went to a pretty fancy uni and studied with lots of people who are now pharmaceutical researchers. They study those potential medicines because they want to make medicines, not to become super rich. Nearly every person I have met inside the industry wants a living wage, but I’ve met like one person ever who got into for becoming super rich. The whole industry (specifically the people who discover the drugs, make the drugs, who do the labour) is made up of people who want to make medicines. It’s just our boss’s boss’s boss who is obsessed with excruciating unsustainable profits.
I don't blame a good chef for rude management at a restaurant, friend
thank you very much for the work you do out there
"I know that every person I work with earns a fair wage that they live happily on"
You need to check yourself.
Great video, I work for a different Danaher company that makes automated microscopes for drug discovery research use. This topic comes up a lot in the development of the instruments. Fine line between creating something valuable to shareholders but also accessible to the masses. Thank you for spreading this awareness and will deffinetly be sharing it with my coworkers.
Thank you!
I work for a Danaher subsidiary and will try to raise this concern in the next all hands on call!
Thank you and good luck!
Thank you!
Disgusting that this company would price gauge people who’s lives are on the line. Thanks for taking the time to shed light on this.
I’m glad that you aren’t just like “this is bad” but you and your brother are actually doing stuff about it with your audience. I hope this gets as much attention as it did last time, that’s why I’m commenting