How to Stop being Vegan with Colleen Patrick- Goudreau
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2022
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Millions of people are choosing veganism all over the world. They value their health, have compassion for animals, and are concerned about the environment, and yet despite the personal benefits they experience, a lot of people revert back to eating meat dairy and eggs. Why is that? I have been looking forward to this episode since the creation of my podcast. One of my most passionate topics is this conversation surrounding why people stop being vegan, how vegans respond to people who stop being vegan, how non vegans use the stories of ex-vegans as proof of justification for this or that, the complexities of our own stories, lenses and experiences that shape our decisions, and so on.
To break down this topic, I shared a conversation with Colleen Patrick-Goudreau who is not only a decades long OG vegan, but also a thought leader on the social, ethical, and practical aspects of living compassionately and healthfully. She’s a speaker, cultural commentator, podcaster, and author of many books, including “The Joyful Vegan: how to stay vegan in a world that wants you to eat meat, dairy, and eggs” and her perspective on the many common reasons why people stop being vegan are compelling.
In this episode we cover
- What the data shows is the main reason people stop being vegan - is it health reasons or more social and cultural?
- The social and cultural pressures that impact our lifestyle choices
- The external factors that make veganism socially difficult -and emotionally exhausting-to sustain
- feeling the pressure (often self inflicted) to be perfect
- What being realistic about food and health looks like
- The double standard that our society holds plant-based eaters and their health to compared to any other way of eating
- Breaching values and sabotaging goals in the process
- The problems with ex-vegan stories - both how they are presented and how people respond to them
- Anecdotes & social media influencers who quit being vegan
- if I ever consider stopping being vegan
- when plant-based diets don’t work
- our biological design to thrive
- Why you’ll never see videos called “why I quit the ancestral diet” or “why I quit the paleo diet”…is it because no one quits those diets or is it because of something else?
- How health is so much more than just food
- Division & hatred on both sides
- the hidden complexities of our modern day agriculture system
- how to respond compassionately to everyone’s viewpoints
- if vegans’ righteous anger when people fail to meet their expectations is justified or helpful
- finding supportive community and bringing people together
- Loving everyone through their own journeys, stories, and no matter how they choose to eat.
WHERE TO FIND COLLEEN PATRICK-GOUDREAU
Instagram: / joyfulvegan
Website: www.colleenpatrickgoudreau.com
Her book: www.amazon.com/gp/product/194...
WHERE TO FIND ME:
Get my ebooks: www.ellenfisher.com/ebooks
My instagram: / ellenfisher
LISTEN to these episodes on Apple Podcast or Spotify: link.chtbl.com/ellenfisherpod
Family CZcams channel: / ellenfisher
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One of the most frustrating (and honestly motivating) aspects of learning more about veganism, factory farming, the agricultural industry, etc. is realizing how much we've been lied to. I'm no genius, but I consider myself a fairly intelligent individual, and I remember having my mind blown when I heard for the first time that female cows don't just produce milk all day every day. The same goes for this conversation and hearing that chickens, like all birds, don't naturally lay eggs every day. How did I go my whole life without knowing this? It seems so obviously ridiculous now to think these animals just miraculously evolved to be the perfect commodity for the standard human diet. Thank you for sharing the basic information that we should all be taught from day one about where our food comes from!
This comment right here! The fact that i thought, for so many years, that they are not Dairy cows. That they are just mamas. Watching Earthlings on CZcams was my awakening moment. I was mind-blown at everything in the documentary. 💚
Couldn't have put it more perfectly! Thank you x
I am definitely one that went plant based for health reasons after reading How to Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease. Then I got ADDICTED to watching all the different plant based doctors, so I firmly believe it's the healthiest way to eat. That lead me to watching vegan youtubers, such as you and your sister, and that lead me to watching Earthlings and Dominion and I'd never be able to go back to eating animals after seeing that. Vegan for life!
I have no vegans around me, so following vegan youtubers is very important to me. I did hurt in the past when I saw vegans go non vegan, because for me these people are my peer group.
I love this! Colleen is fantastic - I have been vegan for 7 years after doing her 30-day vegan challenge and listening to her podcast. She has a special place in my heart. My whole family is now plant based as well as my close friends. The ripple effects is amazing. Thank you for this episode xx
I am still vegan🤚🏼
16 years
I haven’t heard her answer some of these questions Ellen is asking. Like, I also have heard accounts of people I know who were plant based who lost vitality, even eating WFBP. I have felt a loss of vitality eating WFPB during nursing and pregnancy. I’m not vegan but I want to be, but I also think when people hunt their own food or raise their own food and have a connection with the animals and with the death that it sort of makes it okay to eat them. And I really crave meat when I’m nursing. I think we vastly eat too many animal products as a society but I don’t know if it works for everyone to be plant based physiologically especially in colder climates. I hear her saying people just makes excuses but I don’t feel that way? I feel like they are genuine concerns and I want someone to walk me through it.
Ex vegan here! Now eating Paleo and feeling sooo much better. Take a look at Dr Ken Berry, it's important to hear other voices, even if we don't like what they are saying. Your body knows better if it's asking for other nutrients. Good luck.
Carnivore MD is a great resource as well
One of the best youtube channels would be Nutrition Made Simple. He's a doctor who specializes in diet and nutrition
Sooo awesome! Loved this convo so much! And vegan for almost 8 years with healthy vegan children and husband!
Basic truth that Colleen cites: "meat is murder, first for the animal then for you". Saturated fat in animal flesh also drives insulin resistance that drives America's obesity epidemic.
I was vegetarian and primarily plant based for 3 years. This January I heard your interview with dr klapper and also attended a Tony Robbins seminar about identity. Through those Tony Robbins experience I learned that if I wanted to make a lasting change, I need to make it a part of my identity. Through your talk with klapper, I learned that consuming animal products doesn’t align with who I am as a Christian or mother / feminist. I haven’t even been tempted in the slightest ever since. This is what lasting change looks and feels like. I love the talk about conviction.
That's such an acute observation. Identity is one of the things I talk about in The Joyful Vegan. One of the things I talk about is how the data show that the more people make "being vegan" or "being vegetarian" or "not eating animal products" (whatever you want to call it) part of their identity, the stronger their conviction, the higher the likelihood that they'll stay vegan (or vegetarian, etc.).
@@joyfulvegan I can totally understand that! It really is a game changer. Totally stoked to checkout your book!
Fellow sister in Christ here, and I’d like to remind you that you find your identity in Christ alone, not in what kind of diet you adhere to. I encourage you to go watch or listen to the podcast Cultish. It is a Christian podcast that interview people who were in cults. They also break down the way cults work and how people fall prey to them. Veganism is a cult. I’m sorry but it is. This video should clearly be a large red flag. Anything other than Christ that you need to find your identity in, especially a diet, should be raising red flags.
Also, a bit confused about how eating animal products doesn’t align with who you are as a Christian, considering that we see the first animal sacrifice in Genesis was done by God Himself. He also ordained this as a means of sacrifice in the O.T. before Christ. It is well known God wanted the best of His servants’ livestock and harvests as tithing. Anyways, I’d also like to agree with one of the previous comments, “Christian and feminist? Hmm” lol
I encourage you to leave veganism because it genuinely looks like starvation after you do it long enough. There is no other diet where MANY people who try it end up being VERY nutrient deficient. If it was THAT NATURAL and THAT good for us then all those people would not have had dire consequences. Surely all vegans will say the other hundreds who did it for years weren’t doing it right.
Either way, God has no qualms with anyone eating meat. The only specification we have is from OT laws that Paul was clear were done away with, and we have Paul’s writing about new Greek believers being bothered by buying meat in the market place that could have been previously sacrificed to idols.
Wow! The sound of her voice just brought me back 12-13 years when I became vegan!!! Colleen truly spoke to my appetite for using language in a way to expound upon topics that are not comfortable to talk about. Ugh! YES! Good job for this one
Would love a follow up of EX vegan talking about why they are no longer vegan!
I was a vegetarian and dairy free (so i ate eggs on and off) for 15 years and 2 months ago I began eating (quality wild or organic) meat again... my body was in dire chronic conditions and within 2 days I saw my symptoms begin to go away. Happy to chat about it any time !
Recently watched an interesting podcast on this from Carnivore MD interviewing an ex-vegan influencer. czcams.com/video/Ld0mg2MPatc/video.html
I could not maintain my iron and blood levels. I was at a point in which I was requiring infusions not just supplements. My body even with a 95% whole food vegan diet was full of inflammation. My markers were always sky high and my joints and body was so painful that I could barely get out of bed in the morning. I was tested for everything under the Sun and all of my providers said it was simply my diet and nutritional deficits (even with supplementation). As a mom of 4, a wife, and a registered nurse I could not function.
I was vegan for a few months. It was brutal by the end. I had tried tweaking my diet, eating many calories, getting minerals, etc and could not do it. After about a week of introducing wild caught salmon, organic pastured, eggs, and red meat once or twice a week I was 100% again. I actually believe that vegan diets work well for some people and it doesn’t work for others. I still eat a lot of whole plant foods. But I won’t go back to full veganism. I have 3 children btw.
@@novasmotion Your story echoes mine - I tried veganism twice, each time I managed to last 6 months, I'd meticulously planned my diet for sufficient protein and minerals according to the plant-based nutritional advice, was ensuring I was eating the necessary fortified foods etc and my body still ended up lacking in nutrients! The first time I tried I failed due to horrendous cravings for animal products by the end (which I'd not really experienced during my previous years as a vegetarian eating eggs, cheese etc) The second time I tried around a decade later, the cravings came back plus this time my periods dwindled away to nothing - I was clearly malnourished! I just think some people are physiologically more capable of being vegan than others, and some of us need some animal products to function well. Scale that to the wider population and it probably means that we're never going to see a totally vegan world, maybe just one where we eat more plant-based meals and animals are (hopefully) treated more respectfully.
Love Colleen ❤. She taught me the harsh truth of meat and dairy. It was listening to the really tough episodes that I made the change. A switch was flipped and I wanted no part, and I had a choice. Thrilled to be vegan 12yrs husband too. Thank you Colleen, your message and delivery changed my life. I'm certainly not a perfect person It's just one thing that's been a big positive shift in my life.
Hey Ellen! Would you every consider doing an episode about religion and veganism? I know there are citations of Jesus eating fish and drinking milk, and would love to hear a deeper dive into reconciling your secular moral beliefs with your religious moral beliefs.
Colleen is just amazing. I love her podcast, it has taught me so much, her voice is also very soothing. Kind, compassionate and understanding. Her books are also great.
It's important to have people like this, being vegan can be very challenging when it's just you. It's almost six years for me, and not one friend has really been happy for me. For me it was "what's the least amount of animal products i need to consume". Reducing it I found difficult, but starting from zero and adding made more sense to me.
I have been vegan for over 15 years now, I really enjoyed listening to you and Colleen in this episode. Thanks Ellen!
Amazing conversation. Thank you for facilitating these chats to take place Ellen!
thank you for tuning in and im so glad you are enjoying these conversations!
I think there are a few reasons people use the health excuse to stop being vegan. One is that those people are already looking for an excuse to go back to eating animals. Whether it is convenience, societal pressure, or just missing the flavor. If they use the term health reasons they justify it in there own mind and feel they have a valid reason. I'd guess the second reason is because they really didn't feel good and rather than putting in the work to correct their diet they go the easy familiar route. I'm sure there are other reasons but those are my top guesses.
There are legitimate health aspects you cannot (or very difficult and not realistic or attainable) get from eating purely plant based. I also hope all vegans realize eating good quality locally sourced meat is 10000x better than eating a HIGHKY processed food such as an impossible burger. If your body craves meat, it is for a reason. The same way raw milk is so much more nutritious than any nut milk filled with guns and fillers, it’s better to have homemade nut milks but still not nearly as nutritious as raw cows milk.
@@asdfghjklasskdfghjkl how realistic is it for everyone to eat "good quality, locally sourced meat"? Impossible burgers are best for people that are new to veganism. I think most of us don't really crave meat anymore.
@HI HEY HELLO who needs supplements? The only thing I take is B12 and probably don't need it as soy milk is fortefied with it.
@@asdfghjklasskdfghjkl everything you have stated is not based on any evidence.
@@anotherashleytoo just because it is not realistic for everyone on the planet to be fed that way, it doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge what is healthy and what isn’t.
20 minutes in and I love it already!! Thank you so much for this episode! ❤❤❤
really interesting conversation, loved this ep!
wow thank you!
I am very isolated as a vegan in my community and I have a very hard time watching people eating animals, so I don't go to restaurants and I find social gatherings difficult. This is not judgement on my behalf, but rather a repulsion that I suffer when seeing people eat flesh. But nothing, and absolutely no amount of my own suffering will ever cause me to go back to supporting violence against animals. Even if a WFPB diet were not the healthiest diet (and it's just a bonus that it is), I would never return to eating the bodies of animals. Never. For any reason.
I'm the same girl :) I can't even eat in the lunch room at work. It's hard sometimes, but there are lots of us! I'm also Canadian vegan - on Vancouver island xx
I loved reading this. I feel the same way.
That is actually quite self destructive and bordering mental illness imo. (To stay vegan against all odds, even if the health suffers).
@@carolinesmith9489 On the basis of one paragraph you're diagnosing me mentally ill? What laughable and astonishing arrogance. I am extremely healthy as a vegan, eating a whole-food plant-based diet. I look 15 years younger than I am and I'm fitter than most other women my age. But all of this is just a bonus, because I'm vegan for the animals.
@@vegancolleen Calm down. I did not diagnose you. What I said is that if one is obviously getting sick of a vegan diet, it is self destructive and bordering mental illness to deny oneself foods that will make one healthy. I don't know you or your health and have said nothing about such. I said that acting out on the statement that one won't "for any reason" eat animal products again, even in a case where it is medically necessary, is really destructive.
Colleen is so emotionally and spiritually intelligent!!
Thank you, Hannah. Very kind of you to say. xo
Isn’t she !😍
There is SO much incredible information in this episode. I'm listening to it a second time today just to make sure I caught it all. Thank you both so much!
Thank you. :)
In my understanding, veganism is a moral stance and an ethical commitment based upon a sense of justice and compassion for animals. It is NOT a diet - in that it does not dictate what TO eat; it rather determines what NOT to eat. So, I do not understand how a self-professed vegan, suddenly one day either loses or chooses to abandon their moral, ethical vegan principles, to which they had previously committed. If the answer is "health" concerns, then that individual is putting these supposed health concerns OVER the moral principles to which they had supposedly committed. This is why I tend to believe that these people were not likely really ever truly vegan. Still struggling with this.
I don’t think it is sudden for most people. But a gradual shift in their view of life and themselves.
One thing I am sort of believing now, is that to be truly healthy you can’t be vegan. And of course we will disagree on this. But just assume for a second that it’s true, wouldn‘t that make our natural and optimal diet non vegan? And if that were the case, I have every right as a being on this planet to put my own self, my own health over the lives of other animals. Because it would be part of the natural order.
When I was vegan (7 years) I always thought the ethics side of it mattered more to me than health. But I realized, that if it is not the natural diet for humans, I don’t feel morally conflicted to stop being vegan. So in the end it does come down to health and not ethics for me.
You speak as if "health concerns" were minor problems you don't have to take too seriously or that you'll be able to solve without reintroducing animal products, which unfortunately often isn't the case. And then the problems get bigger and bigger and at some point everything your life is is hard and heavy until you realize or not that compassion towards other beings won't automatically safe yourself.
@@MB-yb3lh May I politely suggest thst you please do more research. And find out why the Academy of Nutrition and Diatetics, representing thousands of nutritionists has made an official statement that a well-planned vegan diet (as all healthy diets need to be planned) is healthy at all stages of the life-cycle. Look into The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, again representing thousands, who wholly endorse whole-food plant-based eating.
@@vegancolleen don’t worry, I won’t stop doing more research on nutrition - as I have been doing for the past 9 years or so. Continuing to learn more about it is what made me change my mind about veganism. Because I didn’t stop looking at nutritional science, after accepting and internalizing the vegan “truth” on health, I am no longer convinced that it is best.
I felt the same way but I think what happens is that people actually change their morals to justify what they believe they need. So while they probably could have been vegan, they maybe changed their moral stance once they believed they needed to eat animals. I do think there is some misuse of the word vegan and I know people who went plant based for a diet but called it vegan and then they never stuck with it.
one of my favourite episodes by far! I love how passionate Colleen is!
Love this talk, I’ve been waiting for you to comment on this Ellen! What a wonderful guest to have on for this topic 🤍🤍🤍
I love Colleen! I've been listening to her podcast for many years and am so happy she was on yours!
I love how you are passionate💗🌱
Me too! I love it when Ellen goes off! Can definitely feel her energy!
CPG is awesome. ❤️ Always appreciate her.
I used to be vegan and I really want to go back to it and actually stick to it this time. I feel when I got married, my husband is allergic to so many of the plant based proteins like beans, legumes, peanuts, and other nuts. So it was hard for me to cook our meals to fit his dietary needs while making it vegan. Does anyone have advice for someone who wants to eat vegan but has barriers such as having allergies to so many plant based foods?
This is a great question! I also am interested in the answer to this. I don’t really hear people talk about this much
@@meepmoopmeep1 yeah I don’t hear it much either! Like my husband said even if he wanted to go vegan he really couldn’t because he’s allergic to so many of the plant protein foods that help keep people staying vegan. Maybe that’s when survival vs thriving comes into play..
I'm also from Indiana, and I don't know any vegans in person, so this was really interesting to delve into the difference between social media and the real world. Thanks! 💚
Thank you for this!👏🏾
1) at 17 minute mark- in reference to someone who hunts animals you said either they have been desensitize or either are flippant and don’t even care they are hurting “somebody.” Well… for starters an animal is not “somebody.” A human being is somebody. An animal is an animal; while yes, it’s very creepy and weird when kids or adults abuse animals, hunting to eat or clothe yourself or other human beings is not the same as killing an animal for no reason or abusing an animal for fun.
2) I did not have to be desensitized to hunting and I am a female. I loved animals growing up. Had sooooo many pets. Reptiles, amphibians, dogs, fish, all at the same time that I cared for. At a very early age I was exposed to deer being skinned. I was not traumatized at all. It’s a deer. An animal. I had what I guess you could say is common sense.
Loads of good points 👍
This is a great conversation, and I'm excited to hear you say you're going to be talking to a nutritionist about the physical reasons why someone might give up veganism. Several years ago I was vegan, and I hated to give it up but it was not giving me the energy I needed for my autoimmune disease. And I was eating all the right things - this was a very healthy plant-based diet done under the guidance of a naturopath). Even now I have experimented with going back to it, but now I am in my 40s and require so much more protein to maintain my weight and my blood sugar. I hate eating meat, but I just cannot get enough protein otherwise (soy makes me break out with hormonal acne, and highly processed foods like seitan are not great for me). I would LOVE to hear what a nutritionist has to say about eating a vegan diet when your body is begging for things you don't want to eat. It is really difficult to make peace with eating this way when I truly believe a vegan diet is healthier.
Also, it was lovely to see Collen Patrick-Goudreau. Her books were some of the very first ones I read about going vegan, and she was a huge inspiration for me.
Hello!👋 How'd you see this wonderful episode?
I would LOVE for you to do a podcast with Carnivoremd2.0. I think bouncing facts with a dr.. not just an influencer from the complete opposite outlook would be so fascinating and informative!
I would love something like this too!!!! If anyone can do it respectfully, I feel like Ellen could make it happen. Maybe not even someone on the opposite end of the spectrum, but just someone promoting an ancestral diet.
awe thanks guys id love to do a discussion like that, but did you know that carnivoremd2.0 (Paul Saladino) is a psychiatrist? He's not exactly the person I am looking to have on my show but I would love to moderate an opposing views episode with a plant based nutritionist vs another nutritionist or dietician who advocates for more of what they call an "ancestral diet". I have some ideas for who I'd like to have on but will take some time to coordinate :) But stay tuned for an EPIC opposing views episode coming out on the 21st of this month! It's not about diet but something else. it's going to be incredible.
@@theellenfisherpodcast what about Shawn baker
@@theellenfisherpodcast or asra conlu and her husband
I stopped eating plant based(vegan) after many years of "doing it right". I homecooked all my meals, all organic, no sugar, lots of fermented foods, made my own tofu/tempeh, tons of salads, juice, smoothies, high fat foods like coconut meat/avocados, never ate processed foods or used vegetable oil. I even took handfuls of supplements to make sure I was getting everything but I still didnt feel as good as I do now incorporating animal foods! I only eat animal products that are local from people I know and love.
After adding in animal products( it has been many years now) I no longer deal with anxiety/depression, I am much more grounded, so much stronger! My acne completely cleared and my skin is just GLOWING. I am so much more calm and peaceful I attribute this to just finally feeling nourished. There was something that I just wasn't getting being vegan.
We all need to eat whenever makes us our best! I don't feel the need to "prove" my way of eating is the "right way" because I understand it is ONLY right for ME. I have customized it to give exactly what I need in each moment. Everyday looks very different. Some days I am plant based, otherdays are the opposite.
We are all individual and our bodies all need different foods at different times. No one diet is best for everyone.
LISTEN TO OUR BODY. Trust your own intuition! NEVER feel guilt or shame for giving your body what it needs!
Lol
Clicking not for the click bait title but because I already love CPG
Gave it a like before I even watched it - so excited for this one OMG I love colleen 😭 such a treat
1:20:00 I find this part an interesting dilemma where she advises to not tell people to go vegan. She says instead to tell them to be as kind and healthy as possible and to explain why she went vegan. I do understand that people don't want to be told what to do, but many times in conversations, when people were not guided to the right answer they would come to a much worse conclusion such as "i'll sign a government petition and keep my diet exactly the same" or "i'll just buy expensive "high-welfare" meat". I guess I don't trust people to reach the most sensible conclusions.
Awesome episode Ellen!! I lpve all your content! I loved the statement of if you wouldnt drink your own species breast milk why would you a cows.
Hi there!👋 Awesome episode too... How'd you see it?
A mazing dis cussion❣️
Amazing episode
MY FAVORITE VEGANS! Cant wait to listen to this one
I adore you ellen🥰
thank you Ellen!
Love your podcast! Such a great episode. I love the reminder that there is compassion in all of us. If you're looking for an opposing view, I'd recommend Dr. Terry Wahls if youre interested in interviewing an ex-vegan who now eats animal products for health reasons. She is at the forefront of clinical studies for a strict paleo diet for MS and auto-immune management.
Funny listening to this now after your previous guest Sophia Esperanza had to make ONE HOUR long video where she's explaining herself why she's no longer vegan. Really loved this conversation. Colleen is amazing and so easy to listens to.
Love Manscaped and Buffy. ;)
I cannot wait to listen. Can someone tell me what an "og vegan" is, please? Thank you in advance. 🙏
One of the first people to become vegan or since the beginning basically😊
original gangsta
I just bought her book, im so happy❤️
You should listen to Bonny Rebbeca's story. She literally tried EVERYTHING for the health problems she and her boyfriend had. I don't think it's okay to say that people find excuses so they can eat meat again :( It might not be name-calling but it's not better.. Maybe you can thrive on a vegan diet because you live in a warmer climate. Some people genetically can't convert beta carotene to retinol well, for example. I would also be really curious if you could share some blood tests, with retinol and all the vitamins and minerals, and also a hair mineral test, metabolic markers like basal temperature and pulse. I have been vegetarian for 15 years + but I can't do it anymore. My body was asking for fish and meat and I didn't listen to my intuition at first. Eventually I tried some fish. I then stumbled across you podcast with kori meloy, started following her and literally all the things she shared were making sense. All my symptoms, why I lost so much weight.. everything. Then in just a few weeks after trying to eat more pro metabolic, my temps got up, I sleep better and I'm finally gaining some weight.. I wish I could be vegetarian but I don't think it's possible for me. I still cry when I think about the animals I now eat. My ayurvedic constitution is also vata-pitta so it's really difficult for these constitutions to be a vegan/vegetarian.
What issues did your bloods show & why do you think you lost weight? Did you suffer & lose weight for the entire 15 years? I've definitely had concerns about the conversion rates & bioavailability of various nutrients & veganism can definitely be a challenge for certain people. What do you think your problems were as a vegetarian that were fixed by eating meat & fish? It seems to be an emoitional subject for you so I'm sure you've tried all alternative options
Hello!👋 How'd you see this wonderful episode?
Hi Nina I'm there with you! I loved being vegan for almost 6 years, I even had 2 amazing vegan pregnancies. But there were health issues I was facing towards the end of my vegan journey, like severe iron deficiency, and being underweight. The worst was that I had terrible IBS, which meant a lot of vegan proteins caused me severe stomach pain, things like garbanzo beans, kidney beans, and even onion and garlic irritated my stomach. I put up with all of this for the sake of being vegan, until one day after a doctor's appointment I just couldn't anymore, I had gotten too sick. I still don't do dairy (for IBS reasons) or pork or beef, and I still keep certain days of the week fully plant based, but things did get better for my health once I allowed some eggs, fish, and poultry back in. My face even cleared up, which I took as a sign of my gut stabilizing from my constant IBS. I wish everyone well on their vegan journeys but i completely understand when it doesn't work out.
Too me it's all about how imaginative we are , eg if we can't imagine , how we are connected , what happen , before the animal is on the plate, imagine its life ,ext. If we become to rational we suppress our imagination.
So lack of imagination , takes away , our care
Have watched and read thousands of hours of vegan content, learned a lot of new thing from this, particularly why people need to announce they are not vegan
I’m a little confused why it’s called the title. Like it is insisting on not being vegan anymore or am I just getting it totally wrong and not how it’s supposed to be articulated?
1:03:58 :)
Likewise,am confused too, as the topic of nit being vegan??
I loved all the talk about willful blindness and cognitive dissonance. However I felt CPG had a real judging tone against vegans that didn’t want to eat with others eating non vegan meals. When I first went vegan, I had no problem eating with others who ate meat, milk, eggs. But now, it makes me sad and uncomfortable, so I don’t. That doesn’t mean I’m judging them, or feel superior. I’m taking care of myself. I can opt out and be kind. Please give vegans the benefit of the doubt and stop judging them as “acting superior” when maybe they’re not…,
I think Ellen is referring to younger girls and women being influenced by online & social media. It seems Colleen is underestimating 53:09 how much the younger generations are more tied into online influencers than they are with their peers in real life.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I have a serious question. Please don’t attack. I understand why not to eat commercialized eggs. But why is it wrong to eat home raised chicken eggs?
The biological purpose of hens laying eggs is not for human consumption.
Why do you feel entitled to take what’s not yours?
Well, it's not sustainable to stock grocery stores with home raised, well loved chickens' eggs. So it wouldn't work on a grand scale. But as a vegan I'd not be too offended if you helped yourself to one of those eggs occasionally. Certainly less suffering. The bigger the operation the more suffering that likely would be introduced. I personally avoid using animal products. But I also have accidentally ingested animal products and use modern medicine/vaccines so there is not a 100% purity. My husband and I just choose vegan because we want to. It's important to us. I'm sorry if I didn't give a good answer. It's an interesting question. Vegans avoid using animals. If you're eating her eggs you're using her. Just a simplification. I'll say I'd not want to be seen eating eggs or wearing fashionable clothes made of leather for the sake of not wanting to make it normalized or make it fashionable. Not that I eat eggs or wear leather. And not that I have any influence. Lol
I’ve been vegan for 12 years now. And for the first time ever I’m not so proud to share with the world that I am vegan. The reason is because of the woke vegan ideology that I don’t agree with. I know from experience that this lifestyle is healthy for me and my family. But I don’t walk around a s a proud vegan anymore.
Thank you for your attitude change. Healthy diet is like religion, the more you force your ideals upon another the more people reject the idea.
what do you mean by the 'woke vegan ideology'?
@@hannahmitchell87 Look up, That Vegan Teacher! That should explain the extreme of woke Vegan. Lol
@@MindfulMusings1 Ahh, right... Yeah she doesn't help the cause imo
@@hannahmitchell87 Exactly, anytime we gain superiority and lack humility, we are woke vs awaken.
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One thing, veganism isn't a diet its philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
being social animals isn't a good justification for not being vegan.
So.... a religion. Got it.
@@bobcharles7933 sorry were did you see the word religion? and what god do we follow?
@@tobygosling1653 : You said veganism is a 'philosophy and way of living'. Say hello to the definition of religion. (Hint, no invisible sky-daddy needed to have a religion).
@@bobcharles7933 you might want to look up the definition of religion again lol
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
try again.
@@tobygosling1653 : Religion can be defined as a relatively-bounded system of beliefs, symbols and practices that addresses the nature of existence, and in which communion with others and Otherness is lived as if it both takes in and spiritually transcends socially-grounded ontologies of time, space, embodiment and knowing.
Even most of my fellow atheists are religious. Bhuddism is widely considered to be an atheistic religion. And veganism's reliance on philosophies of 'compassion' and condemnation of what it considers exploitation are all religious tenets of a kind. Even political philosophies can become religious. Humans are religious animals.
Most people disagree with the mistreatment of animals, I’m one of them. Cruelty is an objective wrong, but there is another side. Hunting, is necessary for the health of our ecosystems and therefore, the entire planet. Not only that, but if anyone reading this has spent any significant amount of time in nature, or even watched the discovery channel for 20min, you will see that nature can be brutal. Dying “naturally” in the wild, can be, and often is, way slower and more horrific than a bullet or an arrow, which is a quite merciful way for them to go in comparison. I believe there is a balance. Killing an animal for food and clothing is not wrong. It’s merciful, but should be done only as necessary and with reverence, gratitude, and respect. I personally prefer eating plant based, but I like to see the good in everyone’s decisions and looking into the perspectives of others pragmatically and not just emotionally.
So where does the compassion of an ex so-called vegan go????
Towards themselves. Self-compassion is as important as compassion towards others.
@@suziezurfreiheit6825 That sounds nice, but could be just a convenient rationalization. When one's 'self-compassion' requires one to support the unnecessary and unspeakable suffering of the most innocent, vulnerable beings, I struggle to understand how the benefits of this self-compassion erase the guilt and discomfort that must surely also arise if one has any empathy or compassion for animals at all. Once you know, you know! And you can never un-know. I must assume that so-called ex-vegans must never have watched the hours of animal ag and slaughterhouse films that I have. They leave you with no choice if you have any compassion at all! And as hard as it is to be vegan in a non-vegan world, I show myself compassion by giving myself the daily joy of knowing that nothing on my plate screamed and died in terror. It's a tremendous relief and has been a source of some peace for me in this casually vicious world.
If you stop being a vegan, wouldn’t that suggest you were never a vegan but only someone that is leaving a plant-based diet? I mean, how does someone stop caring about the torture of animals, destruction of the environment, and poor effects on health?
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I stopped eating vegan after three years, because it was so hard during my pregnancy. I was always hungry and it was so much easier to eat some animal products like eggs and joghurt and be full a little bit longer. Now I eat vegeterian food. I still use oat milk and often choose a vegan version when it is available. In Germany the bakeries are really great when you are on your way and hungry and want to eat something small and not so expensive. But eating vegan, most of things in the bakeries were not an option, because they have milk, eggs or chees in it. And I really don't like cookies or crackers. So I could choose between preparing sweetpotatoes or a salad and bring it with me or starving. For me it is fine that my diet changed. I think it will change many more times in my life. As a todller I ate meat, milk and eggs. From the age 8 to 13 I ate vegeterian food. Then my teenager years untill 25 I ate meat again. Then I didn't eat meat at home, because I dind't enjoyed it. Only on rare occasions like barbeques with friends, then I ate only vegeterian food, then I ate vegan for three years... I just think it is easier not to identify to much with it, because your diet can change and it is not so easy to explain when you are fully comitted in the first place. I learned this early in my life and it allows me to change my diet often without guilt. When I am asked about it, i say at the moment I don't it meat... for myself I really hope I will never eat meat again. And I am still very interessted in the vegan lifestyle. But I also know that I am a human and my values and opinions can change.
Lol ok.
I resist becoming vegan because this type of diet does not give me vibrant health. All the fiber and plant toxins make me feel bloated and with an unhappy gut. It is much more difficult for me to maintain a healthy weight on a vegan diet, I believe my body does not handle so many carbohydrates. There were so many health issues that developed for me even being determined to design a well-balanced vegan diet.
It is very hard to listen to Colleen's superior sounding issues of "assaulting" animals, desensitizing, sociopathic, etc. It would be helpful to have a discussion about the death of our foundation of life on our planet - our soil - by our pervasive mode of growing vegan food, monoculture. Many small animals, (don't they count) are slaughtered when growing grains, bean,vegetables. So disingenuous to talk others down while building up her own viewpoint. One of my friends is native american and a designated hunter for his tribe. I have hunted with him and have never seen someone take the life of an animal with more respect and spiritual depth. He tells me "Something needs to die for you to live, regardless of your diet"
Why does she keep talking about people who make different choices about their food as making excuses. She says this over and over. I feel absolutely no need to make excuses for the way I chose to eat.
Ellen, you speak about the non-vegans being the ones that speak most negatively about diet choices. I found Colleen's conversation (especially the part about the morality of taking the life of an animal) to be one of the most negative judgemental conversations I have ever heard about diet. How can she describe someone else's values as "cultural bias" or "willful blindness". So judgemental! How can she state that it is morally inferior to choose to kill an animal out of respect and love? I found it almost unbearable to listen to her say, praying and blessing an animal whose life you are taking to feed your family is just a ritual to mask your discomfort! Such a narrow, blind, conceited judgement. Does she believe all the animals that are killed and the decimation of the soil that takes place with monoculture of plants is more ethical because she doesn't even have to acknowledge that she is is also taking life to sustain her life and choice of diet.
I have appreciated your conversations with so many people, Ellen. You are usually so consistently choosing people who are not putting down other viewpoints while elevating their own. I think you chose someone this time that did not fit into that profile!
More from the guest, a lot less from the interviewer who constantly focused on one area and acts like a 12 year old.
Give me STEAKS! Y’all look hungry!
The original sin brought upon us in the beginning is what put us in a position to sacrifice animals and eat them. Not everyone has the privilege to be a vegan in this world. God does not care what diet we eat. He cares about our heart and our relationship with him.
You cannot know what "God" exactly wants from you. Also if you believe in "love your neighbor as yourself" it extends to all beings of God's creation. Of course your diet is up to you, but not if it includes cruelty towards God's creation.
With so many followers why do you only keep the vegan comments?
i can imagine if this is true, its not a matter of vegan comments, just perhaps assholes are commenting.
I haven't deleted a single comment, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
No need to justify anything to anyone. Go hunt, fish, and eat animal protein. Those animals would be eaten by other animals anyway. Just because some people might be angry when you consume animal protein, it doesn't mean that you should care how they feel.
This is like saying we should kill humans because we will die anyway😂
Utter hogwash.
Two amazing people having such a deep, intellectual conversation about strategies on how to help animals and people. I really enjoyed this talk. Colleen Patrick-Goudreau is always such a delight to listen to. She have helped me become and stay vegan in 2012. And I'm actually new to the host Ellen Fisher but I am a new subscriber and would love to follow her on Instagram if there's an account made. I wish everyone in the world can see this video and listen with open ears and an open heart. Thank you both! ♥