Twitch: Their Own Worst Enemy
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2023
- Twitch bans multi-streaming on different platforms and several different forms of monetizing streams. After major backlash and threats of a boycott, Twitch backed down - at least partially.
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LMFAO, all social platforms are currently trying to self-destroy by monetizing their customers and are competing among each other to see which one goes to bankruptcy first. This has been the most entertaining show this season or even this year and we don't even have to pay any kind of subscription fee to watch it unfold.
Though the thing is that a good chunk was already operating on a loss, they just took a little bit too long to realise that it's really hard to take something away from someone who already had it
They are now seeing who can get away with the rugpull to get money
Because they cant self fund through venture capitalists with high interest rates anymore. They actually have to try to be.... Profitable
Well, as some CZcamsrs say: "Someone has to foot the bills". It's just that the average Joe doesn't want to be that specific someone.
@@krazycharlieclownfish TV, not just some youtuber
Social platforms could be profitable easily if they weren't so bloated. Growth for growth sake is unsustainable but its what everyone does to appease the stock market and investors. Seems the term living within your own means is a foreign concept nowadays. They make money through advertising and selling their users' data, but that alone would not be enough for the type of endless growth that corporations lust after.
It truly feels like Twitch is run by people who have never in their life watched a live stream on Twitch. Also, it'll always be hilarious to me that corporations' response to "creators are using another platform because it's a more reliable source of income" is never "be a more reliable source of income" but "prohibit creators from using that platform".
one of my distant relative is one of the main investors. He once take us to the headquarters. It was really cool. However he never used twitch.
Well the Twitch staff that do watch live streams, go into them to harass and argue with the streamer. See Harris Heller’s recent example.
It’s run by people who can read a graph. Watch hours are still extremely high even with these decisions, they dip, but then people come back. So why worry about it when it doesn’t change anything. 😂
If viewers leave, they will listen, but they will won’t.
Twitch is trying real hard to show us that "too big to fail" doesn't exist.
2021
I see that they're competing with Reddit to be the first to show us that
Twitch isnt even near approaching large enough to be considered for a second too big to fail.
twitter tried, didn't fall somehow. That rule applies still sadly. It'd be nice to see actual trillion follar companies fall to nothing
@@c0mplex564
It's not too big to fail in the sense used for banks circa 2007-2008, but it did at one point hold such a commanding lead in the world of streaming that it was difficult to imagine how it could lose that market share.
Netflix kills shows after two seasons or so because the writers fees go way up as more seasons are produced. They do this on purpose. The lure is "hey look, ultra talented writer, for the fifth season we'll pay $1 million." Then they cancel at two or three.
Oooh, that suddenly makes so much sense.
Talented writers? Where did you see any. All I have seen lately are ESG diversity hires with zero talent.
800 a month?! that cant even pay the lawyer to sue twitch lol
That couldn't even pay for a student practicing to be a lawyer to submit the paperwork to start legal action. yeah i don't think LTT would feel any loss from dropping twitch
16:00 Great strategy. Problem is, these social platforms have a habit of just not honoring grandfathered contract language and telling you to pound sand. Vinny intentionally held off from signing new deals with Twitch because he had an old deal that allowed CZcams. Twitch's response was to just forget about the deal two years later, enforce their no-simulcast policy anyway, and claim that Vinny had agreed to new terms by continuing to use the platform at all.
Social media consists of one proposition, to wit: that there are people that the ToS protects but does not bind, and that there are people that the ToS binds but does not protect.
Gotta love how contracts with individuals mean nothing if you are a company. Corporate contract law is nothing more than a grift.
Vinny from vinesauce?
@@tonnentonie2767 Yes. Vinny "Terminal 7" Vinesauce. Vinny "Pizza Pasta" Vinesauce. Vinny "who the fuck is gura" Vinesauce.
8:00 I happen to know an individual who was part of starting Twitch and it isn't just that they left. A lot of people who didn't want to play ball with Amazon were actually forced out after the buyout happened. It's not that they didn't want to stay, but the new management at Twitch pretty much turned the entire company against anyone who had spoken out against selling to Amazon.
I think the reaction to new baked-in ad rules now is so different than CZcams in 2015 because the level of trust that the community has with Twitch is non-existent. It really doesn't help when Twitch throws out their announcement in a Tweet in the middle of the night as if hoping no one would notice.
I just feel bad for whoever made the neat infographic, it was well made and clearly outlined the rules. Which is probably why the reaction was so fast... makes you think that maybe social media platforms being as vague as possible with the rules is a feature, not a bug.
Timezones
"in the middle of the night"
There is more than just america in this world.
Critical Role also has a contract that lets them stream on youtube and twitch at the same time as well.
Honestly a contract that forces a streamer to only stream on one platform should be illegal.
@@jeremydale4548 Honestly, if you're a partner and they're paying you they could argue that you're an employee and they have the right to limit you engaging in a conflict of interest (streaming on another platform). However, if you're making literally zero dollars, that argument completely fails. But, it's also their platform and they have the right to refuse service to whoever they want.
@@CalculatedRiskAK depends. Unless streamers are W2'd they can not claim them as employees of the platform legally and there is little argument. However as Contractors twitch can tell partners "streaming on other platforms invalidates the contract" and threaten dubiously legal fines and refusal of access to site.
@@CalculatedRiskAK How could they argue that they're employees? That makes zero sense.
1. Employment is a legal status, not an argument. By definition Twitch streamers are independent contractors.
2. Why would Twitch EVER want to make streamers employees? If Twitch streamers were employees they'd have to provide tens of thousands of people health insurance and pay them a salary.
If they want to treat streamers like employees then let's see some benefits, 401k, etc. Until then Twitch is just using them as contractors and they can get bent with any non-competes
Cancelling Altered Carbon really pissed me off. Of all the SciFi shows that could theoretically go on FOREVER no matter who's the main actor, Altered Carbon would have had the best excuse. Need a new actor? Just say (s)he was resleeved. Nobody would bat an eye. The entire cast is modular, and it's completely within the universe to expect someone to be in a different body.
And then they cancel it after two seasons......................
cyberpunk doctor who
I'm with you on this one.
First season was so fucking good. They fucked it. FUCK.
For me personally season one is one of the best sci fi series of all time, season two was just okay but it would have deserved a third season to at least finish up the “envoy-ark” by probably destroying the stack-technology
Thing is, that makes the show reliant on good writing, which most studios are very reluctant to invest in.
CZcams having these same rules and not enforcing them is just as bad, that means they quietly and selectivity enforce the rules, on people they don't want on youtube. Twitch was probably trying the same thing, all they did was bring their rules on par with youtube
I still don't think KICK is going to be "the deal", but with the fracturing it might be able to carry a portion of the load and "streamers" will be spread out across multiple platforms. It is kinda like going back to specific forum sites for specific topics rather than one place for all your interests. Seeing this with the whole reddit thing.
Did you see the clip where a Twitch Employee, afaik the Twitch Creative Director, goes into a live stream and starts gaslighting the streamer and basically tells him that everything he said about Twitch is wrong/a lie?
The twitch creative director part is miss-info. He is the creative director of 'twitch rivals' events. A much MUCH smaller division. It also explains a lot about how horribly organized and implemented every twitch rivals event is.
oh was that Harris heller's stream, cuz that shit was weird.
@@Welshmanshots Yep that's the one!
I don’t even get how it’s legal for a US company to say “if you use our platform you’re not allowed to use any of our competitors.”
I love how LMG has grown past the point of giving a F about twitch potentially banning them... That said, I think LMG could make their own streaming platform and it would be better than Twitch at this point lol. Keep it up :)
LTT said they wouldn't do live streaming as there is no money in it and it takes way to much money to maintain
@@jshklsn Yeah. Luke even talked about that this stream. Saying that a free streaming service would be really difficult to do, as they're not that profitable.
I mean, they stream on floatplane, that's close enough
Linus has been saying this twitch thing for a decade now, he never cared if he got banned on twitch
@@jshklsnKick is full of the worst streamers to be fair. They’ve got a justified rep for taking people banned from Twitch for disgusting behaviour. Like who wants to share a platform with scum like Adin Ross?
Yea Derefevil was quite a bad example since Netflix didn't even make the show, it was made by Marvel Televison & ABC studios, Netflix just had the exusisve streaming rights and then Marvel Televison was folded in to Marvel studios the next year and the streaming license lapped in 2022 so the shows were removed from netflix and put on Disney +.
Yes agreed but there are a good bunch of examples where they did do this . right now the only Netflix show I actually am invested in is YOU . I hope it ends correctly its so close hope they don't fuck it 😢.
The twitch user experience is horrid with the amount of ads. At least tv is different because when you get an ad you don’t completely miss what you were wanting to see. Even a pre roll ad isn’t bad because you weren’t invested in what was going on just yet. After getting 8 back to back ads while watching somebody play in a final circle of apex I left twitch for good.
For what ever reason media company seem to get this bad idea in their head that their brand name is the content people want and not the content it self. So they do really stupid things like try and increase profits by cutting it out of the people actually making the content, which makes creators leave which means their less stuff to engage with, which mean less people come, which means less money.
It has played out so many times and these company never seem to learn that they need to keep their creators on board and that their creators content not their brand name is in fact the thing people are engaging with.
Twitch literally just wants a bigger piece of the pie.
They don't want people to make money off their platform if they also don't get some of the money the streamers make. Twitch introduced bits for a reason, because they were angry that people donated to streamers through stuff like Paypal and they weren't getting any of the money.
the thing i don't get with that theory is that none of these new rules makes twitch even a penny more. if anything, it runs people off. the exclusive streaming mayyyybe might theoretically bring more viewers in. but all that stuff about the ad policy? twitch doesnt make money on that change unless they introduced a baked in alternative (like the bits you mentioned)..
i do wonder if this is push from advertisers not wanting to have their midroll ads run on content that has banners and ads or sponsorships baked in for other products? or something? or maybe some rule about advertising to minors? (i dont know the laws on that). i just think there is some kind of push from another entity, government or ad companies or possibly app stores? (remembering apple and tumblr) that is pushing for changes like these... but if thats the case, theres been no transparency on that afaik
@@TheSilverInfinity my theory is that they think by limiting sponsorships, streamers will run more in-app ads to compensate, in which they take a 55% cut, leading people to either subscribe to their streamers to skip ads, where they take a 50% cut, or subscribe to Twitch Turbo to skip ads, where they take basically all of it. This is Amazon we're talking about. They think that the world is their oyster and refuse to acknowledge the fact that viable competition exists and we will gladly leave.
TL;DR: Amazon's ego is so big they think "why not milk streamers? Not like they would leave our platform."
It’s all going the way commercial television went
We'll have to see if Twitch's rules on multi-casting would apply to large corporations. Apple, Nintendo, PlayStation?
As someone who started streaming I think I will just switch to CZcams. Not like i have a following or anything. Oddly enough I do have more views on my CZcams archives. More consistent at the very least.
CZcams has a way better system to discover people so its probably for the best, of course making edits of the streams and uploading those might even be better, as you then have shortform content that is also an ad for your stream.
@@paybuck1237 guess I could start with some compilation cuts. Most gameplay is a lot of nothing happening. For TOTK it would probably be good to put together a compilation of shrines or something. Done less than half of them so far, but it would also be good to pull them into parts. It would also be a chance to hear what I actually sound like.
@@paybuck1237 You joking? CZcams is SHIT at recommending content.
To be a successful steamer you've allegedly got to get a following elsewhere first and also during the stream keep viewers engaged every 7 seconds. Good luck 🎉
at 13:00 it shows that linus isn't a weeb. Any anime fan knows that a new series could take 10-15 years and it wouldn't surprise anyone
It is fucking stupid but we are so used to it
The boon and the curse of seasonal productions.
You nailed that right on the head Linus regarding TV shows - if there are only 2 seasons or less, I won't even bother watching it at all and you are so right about shows just being up and cancelled way too often - if they set 5 season minimum contracts - that would be far better. Gues they are going to learn the hard way as users continue to evaporate the platform to other rich sources of entertainment. Watching only 1 or 2 seasons of any show is usually a complete waste of time and ends up in frustration beyond belief - Firefly anyone - easily one of the very best SciFi shows serves as a perfect example of a complete failure of management ...
"Twitch chat, I love you... but you don't matter". That was brutal
Props to LTT for not getting shafted by contracts back in the day. It's always difficult to stand your ground on this stuff
According to a Google search, they showed that Kick's interface doesn't actually include any of Twitch's code, using a different framework and such. That makes sense to me, as otherwise there would be an obvious lawsuit.
That's really funny because I watch all of these on CZcams, I don't ever watch any of this on twitch or anything. It doesn't come up in the show often enough I didn't even know you guys streamed this on twitch.
Guess it's not odd CZcams lowering monetization requirements Before it was 1k subs, 4k watch hours or 10mil shorts views to get monetized, now it's 500 subs, 3k watch hours or 3 mil shorts views
that isn’t true
@@smile4cs no that is true but to earn ad rev you still need 1K subs an 4K watch hours
to earn money from ads you still need 1K subs and 4K Watch hours.
They say Riley is still updating the script to this very day
At this point Twitch is a vending machine for my Prime rewards and nothing more
They "rolled back" they didn't do shit! Guys... Just leave twitch. It's not worth the headache. They have been toying with streamers for such a long long time man
Isn't kik a platform that swingers and people looking for "casual encounters" use?
Kick, not kik
My man
Kik is (possibly was) a shady direct messaging app. Kick is a competitive streaming service.
No, Kick is an alternative streaming platform built by casino companies after Twitch stopped allowing them to sponsor streamers
@@vexedpixels "competitive" is a strong word.
I want to ask LMG Group a question. Is it possible that you can text your videos? I fully understand if its to much work or takes to much time. (The Auto text doesn't work that well) i lost my hearing 1985 during the invasion of Afghanistan. I expect that you doesn't going to se this but I love your videos! Its shimmer of light during a dark time! Пока!
This is how bad it's got, I've seen streamers on twitch asking MS to bring back Mixer...
Mixer was great, that's why. It sucks that it failed, but the platform was much better than Twitch.
Microsoft gave up way too early on Mixer. They should have kept the easy setup to stream via your Xbox. Also it was a great place to find smaller streamers, until they started to dole out the big bucks for a few top streamers.
"Twitch chat doesn't matter"
I laughed sooooo hard 😆😆
That aside about Netflix: oh man, I feel your frustration. It was the Ash vs Evil Dead show that did it for me.
Lol 13:15 blue remote.
Twitch: "can we forget about the things I said when I was drunk."
i stopped netflix because they keep canceling my favorite shows.
I'm only on twitch because of 2 creators... Once they leave, I will! Twitch is a goddamn nightmare
its been many months since ive been on twitch, youtube has everything i could really ever want now
Throwing It All Away by Genesis is like the theme song of social media companies and their users right now. Facebook, Twitter, reddit, twitch, heck even CZcams has been toeing the line for years.
"we cannot live together, we cannot live apart. And that's the situation, I've known it from the start. You know I know baby, I don't wanna go. But you're throwing it all away, is there nothing I can say to make you change your mind"
Signed up for floatplane earlier today and just now realized LMG clips aren't on there. Why not?
I can barely tell that Luke isn't in the studio!
Twitch literally just edging destroying their own platform
Sad part is. Twitch is going to be around long after this. All the bigger streamers will leave and then the lesser known ones will be left behind and ether florish or suffer.
Lol. No mention of Netflix losing customers from the child porno flick Cuties.
Well. Shows being cancelled without a resolution has always happened.
Whomever did the thumbnail did an amazing job! 😂
TBH I don’t think any platform should be allowed to have those kinds of limitations on how you’re allowed to monetize your own content without being classified as editorializing, so long as the way of monetization is both legal and would otherwise fall within the TOS. If Twitch wants a piece of that pie, they should find a way to make something in which they can manage the sponsorships for the creators where it adds clear value to the creator to use.
the biggest problem with twitches new sponsorship policy is that smaller streamers who rely on twitch as their income suddenly wouldnt be able to afford food or rent if those policies were to be implemented and they would lose too much of their audience if they were to switch to a different platform so for those smaller creators the options are to stay on twitch and not eat, switch to a different streaming platform and not eat until they can rebuild an audience, or just quit streaming
Twitch got too many ads on it, i reflexively close twitch whenever one comes on.
Just looked in to this, and kick does not use any of Twitch's leaked source code. The only thing people have to go on is that there was "embed code" on a page on kick, but this is just a URL that points to embed related twitch stuff, not any indication of identical use of backend servers.
Its these Silicon Valley wackos running the party.
Is it silicon valley wackos, or general wall street? Because Wall Street has been ruining good things for decades in the interest of making a buck.
Id say it’s more of the greedy investors who want their money since they see the economy slumping
@@Airwr3ck private equity has also been on a tear lately, and not for the better.
LOL sure buddy, the engineers are the problem
ah the old adds because of side top & bottom banners is why i started using ublock origin
This is how I found how that Ninja's real name is Richard and his middle name is Tyler? So now I only have Tyler1 as famous people named Tyler.
(Yes, and Tyler Joseph, which is why I have to hide my middle name, but that's it)
Maybe youtube is keeping that term on the back burner for use here soon.
"They kind've always sucked. How is it that we're just kind've figuring it out now?"
Reminds me of the peeps that didn't realise early on who the bad guy was in House of Cards. It was obvious to some - but to everyone else only obvious in hindsight.
Champion thumbnailing there
CZcams premium went from 50 million users to 80 million this year. Amazon prime has 130 million users not all of which are twitch users with twitch having 140 million active users in total. CZcams also doesn't have to share with a whole e-commerce business, just it's music streaming service.
CZcams music is really nice, and the YT Premium and Music combo is also nice.
I kind of run a family sub for a good chunk of my family.
If they started enforcing IP adress limits like Netfix, no bueno. I'd have to migrate. I alone travel for 3 months out the year, not to mention the rest of the crew...
I only even have Netflix because I got it for free with my phone subscription, and I'm kicking it the second it isn't.
$800 is close to what I have to live with each month.
i love the cardboard cut out
YOU BETTER PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN THIS IS BASKET OR YOU'RE DONE YOU'RE OUTTA SCHOOL D'ASS.
I've been in the partner program since it started. This is so sad....
Support the competition.
Twitch cliffhanging RN!
Usually I'm pretty critical of Linus hogging the airspace and not letting Luke get in a word edge-wise*, but man, I feel for him with this audio delay.
*As only someone who struggles with the exact same compulsions can be
whoa, luke has been losing weight
Yeah, he's gotten paper thin!!
Deadass: CZcams, the OG, is most DEFINITELY seeing a lot less of me. They clearly dgaf what I feel, so why should I about them?
I was gonna start multistreaming my YT Streams (the few I do) to Twitch again soon...welp gonna multistream to a different platform them
There is an alternative: Owncast
You know... Perhaps if Mixer was still around, they would probably be riding this wave of twitch refugees
people aren’t going to Kick, they’re just not watching Twitch until they find something else to get mad about
Netflix is its own poison. If they didn't produce everything in one big dump they would see want seasons are worth keepinying and which ones will flop. They killed all the hype in so many anime because you cant have a discussion when its all about binging the whole season.
Netflix kind of sucks now mostly due to the fragmentation is streaming services. Basically have to Google to find what streaming service has the show I have in mind. It's ass.
I can't believe 2015 was already 8 years ago...
1bc was 2023 years ago 😭
@@spagootest2185 IKR????? 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
CZcams should have went through with that
10:52 Kijiji
If you read the terms of service for youtube they're pretty much the same as to what twitch changed it to. Switching for that reason is dumb. If your argument is that youtube takes less of a cut? Sure. If your argument is that twitch is overstepping, and that google cares more than amazon does...well you're just wrong. I'm not saying that jumping ship is wrong. I'm saying doing so for that specific reason is dumb.
New C.E.O having a heart attack every WAN show.
Disney has lost a lot of god will with their woke propeganda.
Twitch's problem is they have too many useless content creators. They really need to set thresholds to how high the resolution that a streamer can stream at based on their follower, subscription, and affiliate status. However what really hurts the Twitch experience is the ad mechanism which does not track you across streams so switching streams can result in a flood of new ads. With Turbo now costing more than Amazon Prime, D+, and most levels of Netflix, they have priced the content outside its value.
I seriously doubt many have left Twitch and found success unless they already had it on Twitch.
That's exactly what I was thinking, just nuke streaming resolution and bitrate for anyone making content deemed "low effort".
@@Gabu_ So twitch gets to nuke streaming reso and bitrate for anyone THEY deem "low effort"? How about fuck no. That's just improving the status of bigger streamers and makes smaller creators have a way harder time to raise in the ranks, even if content is good. Not even talking about how it gives this monopoly site a way to "shadowban" unwanted people. Say a word of dissent against amazon or its affiliates? BAM, you're a "low effort" -content creator. Say a word of dissent against the political views of a major stockholder? BAM, low effort.
Twitch's problem is what is every other major company's problem. Stock owners. People in these companies aren't interested in creating the best site for something, but making as much money as possible. Any way they see they can make more money, they'll take it.
No one can stop Linus.
I'm pretty sure normies are going to struggle to join Kick, considering most people's first impressions of Kick is when Aiden Ross showed a bunch of minors porn on stream, and restreaming the super bowl while saying "Kick allows me to do this, Twitch doesn't." Whether he's right or wrong about Kick's rules doesn't really matter in terms of first impressions.
Rip designated survivor...
facebook's 'goodwill' is unassuming boomers who dont know the next thing about facebook's next big controversy
Anyone remember Google-Plus? Too soon?
13:13 lol nice
Blizzard has been trying really hard to make themselves hated lately...
GG linus. I was watching your video while playing genshin impact and pulled my first wish. I got qiqi.
Vague rules are a feature, not a bug.
All these platform being destroyed by a modest rise in interest rates (historically, I get it's high for last 15y or so) is hilarious. Basically all these companies are just trying to look profitable for a qtr or two so the CEO and higher ups and can check out with huge financial package.
Ive noticed more streaming here on youtube..
The best thing from netflix.. leading me to make a plex server.
I have never used or went/watch Twitch, same with Reddit, Facebook and CZcams alongside Instagram and TikTok is more than enough crap for me lol
They rolled it back the next day, a la WotC.
Didnt they backpedal and take back the changes just a day or two later?
They mentioned that. It wasn't a full backpedaling so much as a "sorry we were caught" type of situation.
I pay for youtube premium to not see ads for products like Ridge Wallet, Rage Shadow legands, Dbrand. VPNs water bottles, boxer shorts, backpacks, screw drivers. It's annoying as a consumer lol. Stop it lol. Get some help lol.
I want a new season of inside job
Most big social networks seems to have forgotten wich goose that laid the golden egg.
I know business need to grow but they seem to be forgetting the square cube law.
at some point growth becomes unsustainable. i see the logic in expanding into other fields but pretty non of the social media apps have succeeded this far (because they all seem to think that cutting off their own legs is the best way to move forward)
yes it is easy to begin charging money for a "free" service (they still get a lot of data and marketing information wich is in somesence scarry but also a form of compensation).
Most of these services seem to forget that being "free" was the original reason we began using them ( i am cynical enough to admit it the companies are not gonna stop they cannot accept a world where they only get a slice of the cake and would therefore rather risk no cake at all if it means even a minute chance of getting the whole cake)
By slowly pushing the limit of what is acceptable the unacceptable suddenly becomes just another trifle
I do not have a solution i just needed to vent a bit