How Prince of Persia Defeated Apple II's Memory Limitations | War Stories | Ars Technica
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2020
- For today’s episode of War Stories, Ars Technica sat down with Prince of Persia creator Jordan Mechner to learn about the challenges he faced while bringing his ambitious vision for the game to life. As the 1980's wound down, Mechner found himself fighting against not only the limitations of the Apple II hardware but the impending death of the platform itself. Decades later, Prince of Persia remains a classic example of how the constraints of early gaming led to solutions that advanced the artform.
Directed and Produced by Justin Wolfson
Edited/GFX by Parker Dixon
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How Prince of Persia Defeated Apple II's Memory Limitations | War Stories | Ars Technica - Hry
It was huge fun to record this interview in January 2020, and the ArsTechnica team did an amazing job producing and editing it. The story of Shadowman's creation has never been better told than in this 20-minute video.
Jordan Mechner you are a true inventor and exceptional creative mind. Thank you for all your and for our childhoods. Your every game are pieces of art and should be placed at hall of fame of computer gaming.
Wow. Thank you for this interview. That was brilliant!
Thanks, Jordan. Your work on this game blew my mind as a kid. Watching the clips of your bro run in this vid was pretty incredible too. It was like an indelible image of my childhood had suddenly sprung to life right in front of me.
Your ambition is a true inspiration to me. Thank you for your hard work!
I have come to learn that limitations of computers and gaming systems in the 80s and 90s are what spurred creativity, and why games from that period, while sometimes can seem dated, can still be fun to play and had heart and soul. Same for movies and animation from the 40s and 50s. That's why Disney "classic" movies and classic Nintendo and PC games still have magic. That is also why most games and movies now just don't hold that spark.
that is so crazy to watch the old video tape of his brother and instantly recognizing the Prince's jump
yes just make ur brother jump
My thought about this is exactly the same.
Yes! My jaw hit the floor.
Yep, it was surreal! Wow!
As a programmer and a kid from 80s generation, I will say that Prince of Persia is an all-time masterpiece.
another whitewashing
Got me into gaming. First game I ever played on PC
@@AC-mp7cx wah wah this game setting isn't PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@ichirosuzuki2252 yes
@@ichirosuzuki2252 You seem to be the lazy kind who doesn't watch the video (nor knows what they are talkng about). I'll save you the time: czcams.com/video/sw0VfmXKq54/video.html
That jump is engraved in my memory, it's so iconic, there was no games back then with that type of realistic animation, even tho it was a few pixels, it conveyed the action
It was" Another world " game a few years later
There still aren't games with that type of realistic animation. It is still ahead of its time. Not only was it realistic motions ... the example of realistic motions was above and beyond what most actors put out... it was some Buster Keaton level acting
@@bogdanradulescu870 And Flashback after Another World.
fighting the shadow man and then realizing that I had to put away my sword, was one the most awesome moments for me playing videogames
I remember clearly my friend Matt and I slaving away playing this game struggling through every level. We finally get to the Shadowman then we spent the same amount of time trying to figure out how to beat him. I'll never forget accidentally putting the sword away and realising I had solved it (complete fluke). The joy, I remember it so well lol
It is a good analogy to life actually. And, to this man's struggle with making this game.
Sometimes you gotta notice when you are malicious to yourself, and embrace yourself instead.
I still remember the frustration I felt because I couldn't defeat shadow man no matter what I did when I was a kid so after couple of days maybe (because I didn't know there was a save-load system in the game so I had to start from the beginning every single game session) I just emotionally gave up and put down my sword and then he did the same!
It was a total surprise and I can still feel the excitement of finding the solution because it felt more like a revelation to me. It was purely accidental since I gave up trying and surrendered for him to kill me but it also immediately made sense. It was a magical moment and maybe the most satisfying feeling I got from a computer game. It was literally the moment of pride and accomplishment!
Cagri Caglayan There is a quest in the Witcher 3 inspired by that Shadow Man. Master of the Arena quest ;)
Nowadays you'd have a quicktime event telling you to hit X to put your sword away. Yay, fun...
Things like that are the reason why I find myself going on a retro-rampage, replaying some of those old games every now and then. :)
That's so great to hear! Such a happy accidental discovery is what I hoped for.
There was a load-save system in Prince of Persia? Seriously? I never finished that game as a kid after restarting so many times.
awesome story dude, just give me goose bumps
Prince of Persia had character animation fluidity and sense of body weight like no other game in it's era. As a teenager I remember just admiring the animations everytime I played the game. Sword battles were also very well executed. Warm memories abound. Kudos to Jordan, epic achievement!
I remember playing this on a friend’s home computer as a kid. There was an anti piracy system in it where you needed the manual to get to the 2nd level. You had to drink potions with letters on them that coincided with a certain location of a word in the manual. They lost the manual so we played that first level over and over just guessing random letters at the end and dying. One day, we guessed right and I was so excited to see more of the game. It all made the game that more mysterious.
Haha, we had similar experience on SEGA, when we just guessed the code to level 5 I think.
usually one could find the hacked level codes via some online resources or printed in some computer magazines game sections ... bet you didn't know that until now, did you? ;-)
@@dadautube it was a unique situation sometimes in the early 00s, in a remote village in Siberia, and not much else except the platform and this cartridge 😂
One could even say we were guessing that code to survive the death.. of boredom))
lol ... all you had to do was use "megahit" in DOS prompt and use Shift+L to move to next level :P
not sure how I knew about this, but as a 11 yr old kid, that was probably my first cheat code :D
I remember, by pure luck, being able to hack the copy protection level with ResEdit. I had the game on original disks and manual, but didn't like the need of the manual to play the game. With a single character change I managed to add a floor plate that opened the exit door without any potion drinking. I felt like some kind of genius when I pulled it off! 😂 30(?) years later, I still remember exactly how I did it 😅
Ah, the feeling when I beat the shadowman for the first time was amazing!
When i see his brother jumping and running was so prince of persia that i feel scared
Exactly what I thought too when watching it.
Imagine how Reza Pahlavi feels. He didn't even know he had another brother.
@@RFC3514 lol
Scared? Huh?
It is scary
This guy has it all: Technical prowess, extreme creativity across multiple mediums, and he's articulate and likeable to boot.
exactly my thought
But he can't pronounce "Karateka" :)
also he looks like he is 35 but must be like 60 years old
@@Alfa4 Ha, good point.
A man who deserves to get laid.
12:23 Mad respect to him for crediting Toni for her persistence in requesting combat and her idea of reusing the hero’s animation for enemies. His trick of XORing two shifted frames of the hero to make the shimmering Shadow Man instead of a straightforward negative filter was also fantastic, and so was his idea to elevate the nonviolent theme to such an iconic choice in a boss battle.
It’s really cool to see the programming tricks used to get around early computer’s limitations, like Super Mario Bros’ 16x16 sprite sheets used to reduce the levels’ memory size and render a frame bigger than the RAM
As an fyi, that woman you reference, Tomi Pierce, passed away in the year 2010 due to complications with ALS. I know it doesn't directly pertain to your comment, but I think this news does kind of add impact to the credit since it's honoring the legacy of the deceased.
@@UndertakerU2ber Thanks for that bit of info, yes, this does put more weight on his tribute of her - though he seems the kind of person who'd do that anyway for whatever else help and inspiration he got. And what a mind and creativity, too! These war stories are the bomb.
This comment needs more combat.
whitewashing game
@@UndertakerU2ber That is even sadder than her apparent lack of a Wikipedia page.
I remember this game being insanely difficult as a kid
And insanely cool :) It had that special atmosphere. But yea, I never finished the game either. Back then, part of finishing a game was usually to master its gameplay and the get a bit of luck. You couldn't save the game in the middle, and the clicking time in this game didn't make it easier heh. I played the PC-version but was envious of the cool looking prince in the Mac version :P
Me too, I seem to recall not even being able to get past the first couple of screens.
This was the first game i played in my life, the DOS version, in smt like 1999 or 2000. I never managed to fininsh it, always got stuck in upside down level until the time is over. I kept playing for a year or so, then i found that PC also had Dangerous Dave, so i gave up from prince of persia for good
@@DogmenHardcastle me too 😂
Getting chopped in half was pure nightmare fuel at the ripe age of 6
5:56 that jump is so iconic.
Thanks Jordan Mechner’s brother!
Guy was pioneering motion capture acting before Andy Serkis 😆
@@dingomatic He's a really good Go player, too. 5-dan amateur!
It's pretty cool that his brother is the Prince of Persia.
I know, right? If you freeze the jump at a certain point then you can clearly see where some of the frames from the game came from. So cool!
His brother is now immortal and will live forever as prince of persia
As an early 90's kid growing up in South America, the highlight of going to school every day was to play Prince of Persia during our computer classes.
The teacher was the only person we knew that had successfully finished the game. The rest of us kids dreamed of finishing the game, but try we did.
Your game made a positive impact in my life and I will always be eternally grateful for that. Thank You!
Same... Me too...
Same for me, this was probably the first videogame I played on our school computer (IBM 286). I couldn't even finish the first two levels for the first few weeks. Good times. :)
Same here in hungary elementary school. 286 PCs with Hercules dotted monitors :) It was remarkable time. There was Stunts car simulator game what was revolutionary too. And Street Rod 2.
The teacher was the only one is my fav part of it, lol. Seems he was such a dedicated grown up, 😂
Yeah, I remember those days, whoever said he achieved the most, and had some kind of proof of what he saw, they'd had be respected for life.
Prince of Persia blew my mind when I first saw it way back when. To see the clips of your brother doing the original movements was absolutely unreal! :)
You have my deepest respect and admiration!
It's kinda amazing that everyone who saw or played the game in action essentially is watching his brother do these animations himself. We all watched his tape :)
I was too young to articulate it at the time but looking back this was one of those games where you realised that video games were truly an art form
The clip of his brother doing the now world-famous and historically important PoP jump...now that's something.
If there are genius game designers - Mechner is one of them. I’ve played both Prince of Persia and The Last Express for the first time *decades* after their respective releases and - to this day - I consider them to be some of the finest games I’ve ever played. Not just historically, but in general.
When is the next video coming? Just joking. Great to see you here too, man :D
@@Empowerless Oh, we'll see ^_^ Glad to see you too! :)
He is definitely a great. Though I can't help, but feel nowadays devs like him are hard to come by because A) Games have gotten so large in scope you truly need massive teams. B) ambitious game aren't as safe as tried and true designs.
So nowadays AA and Indie devs need to prove concept for new game mechanics working which is hard without lots of money, and talent.
One example would be the whole Battle Royal gametype. Started out as a mod for a fairly popular, but niche game ArmA 3. AA devs decided to develop it into stand alone. It got much more popularity and then everyone one started to copy it with their own twists.
Hopefully the same thing happens in regard to Project Reality and Squad which are Battlefield games in scope of map and player count, but much more teamwork and realism oriented.
@@GeorgGreat_GameReviews btw my next game project is Command & Conquer style RTS game. Hopefully you can review it when it is done :D
@@Empowerless Sounds like a cool idea! Do you have a devlog or patreon or anything to follow the progress?
Jordan is a great story teller and props to Ars Technica for producing such a clean and uninterrupted video
Seeing his brother doing the jumps just blew my mind. One of the coolest things that I liked about POP was the very unique way that he jumped.
That iconic jump was his brother. Legendary.
Great episode. Karateka (and later POP) were early influences on my own game making (including Crash Bandicoot, also featured in this series). My partner Jason and I loved the lush animations (and you can see that influence in Crash). Jordan and I met a couple times in the 90s (GDC or E3 orr such), but more recently as a huge history reader I have wondered whether he was influenced by the saga of dynastic transition from the Persian king Cambyses II through to Darius the Great. In the semi-official story Bardiya, the younger brother of Cambyses is killed and replaced by a "shadow" clone (created by an evil magi) who Darius has to vanquish with the help of the Lord of Light. Now really, this is likely a case of more terrestrial dynastic struggle and the story was written by the ultimately victorious Darius... but when I read it, made me think instantly of the original POP.
Andrew Gavin That’s a great call Andy. I would be surprised if it wasn’t influenced by that!
Andrew Gavin also really cool to hear about how this influenced your own great games.
Andy, you're smarter than I was! I did read up on Persian history and legend, finally, 20 years later as research to write Sands of Time (game and movie). In those Apple II days of making the original PoP, my knowledge of Persian culture didn't go much beyond the "1001 Nights" and its Hollywood derivatives like "Thief of Baghdad."
So glad to hear that you dug Karateka and POP back in the day!
Jordan Mechner haha. I also was an Apple II guy, having started in 80 on one. And when POP came out I still had a IIGs half gathering dust next to my Mac SE and PC. But I remember running out to the mall to get it 😀 and that it was odd to be playing a game in the familiar old orange and blue again. Loved it though. 1001 night by the way, if I remember correctly, is routed in stories from the Sassanian period (contemporary with late Roman / early Byzantium and ended with the Arab conquest). Persia ruled the Tigris Euphrates valley for much of that era. Later editors added some Muslim veneer.
Andrew Gavin I read your blog about the making of Crash Bandicoot and it has been inspirational for my game making too. Thank you!
Early gaming history is all about memory utilization 🙂
Hardest historic game to play !
This is such an amazing video. We need more interviews like this with game devs from the 80s and 90s.
Absolutely, before they start withdrawing or even passing away. This is a fantastic interview.
Thank you to whoever started this "War Stories" . You feed us, gamers who truly care about games, how those games changed our lives. Whoever you are, you understand what makes a game timeless. Thank you.
Shut it nerd
@@ColonelMetus I wish youtube had downvote like reddit.
@Steven Jackson Your country is on fire and that is how you spend your time?
@Steven Jackson Be safe, protect the laughter, it is what keeps us humans
Prince of Persia provided me with one of the most memorable gaming events of my childhood. I would play while my sister watched (she was too scared to play) next to me. We played on an Apple 2cx! Anyway, we had gotten to the part of the game still in the dungeon area where you run past a skeleton in one direction and then come back the same way after opening a door or something. When we ran past the skeleton on the way back he unexpectedly re-animates and jumps up to attack you! We were both so surprised and shocked we started screaming and ran away from the computer! My parents were then shouting asking what was wrong and we were both screaming "a skeleton came!" I don't think we ever got past that part of the game because we were so scared of that skeleton and didn't know how to kill him!
However, looking back now 20+ years ago, it was an amazing moment of bonding with my sister. Thanks Jordan. :)
Awesome
5:55 holy sh*t that actually looks like the movements in the game
You don't say.
🤣
@@thorham1346
Don't you say?
@@fajaradi1223 You say don’t?
@@m.g.2313 say don't You.
I clearly remember how fluid and lifelike character motion was in POP. It was like no other of its day. Its fascinating and not surprising to see how much effort was put in to it. Thank you Jordan and the producers of this video.
In the hot summer of 1993, I have memories of coming home from school, cracking open a cold can of coke, and sitting in the air-conditioning playing Prince of Persia. It was on my parents’ 16MHz IBM PC. It’s those little joys in life that are fondly remembered.
I got Prince of Persia for the Amiga and that was it. My number one game of all-time.
This video is such a gem. Prince of Persia on DOS was the first video game I ever played at a friends house. We had to switch the Turbo Button on a PC Tower larger than the table. A huge heavy and loud machine. Then type in some weird lines in DOS, which we didn't understand as children, but were written on a paper by my friends brother. The game would boot up and we were immediately sucked into this world of butter smooth animation. Unlike anything you had seen at the time. People these days might not get it, but it was a truly mind blowing experience. We had no idea how the characters and movements could looks so fluid and believable.
After we finished playing the game we usually ran outside and reenacted the sword fights of the game, haha.
probably "cd prince" "prince" or "cd games" "cd prince" "prince".
that's not weird, that's literally opening a "folder" (directory) and running the exe, like when you double click on something.
@@pelgervampireduck it was the whole process from dos to running the game that we didn't understand as 5-6 year olds.
Did the PC look like this? czcams.com/video/dmoDLyiQYKw/video.html
I love that era of PC, it was the golden age!.
It was pretty awesome!
After over 30 years, I finally get to meet the creator of this game. Mr. Mechner, you don't know how many hours I've spent playing your games of Prince of Persia 1 and 2! The games were addictive and fun, and now looking back at it, I have so many memories during that time! Thanks for creating such an awesome game! My friend and I stayed up until 3am on some nights while we were in college, and yet, we still managed to graduate ☺!
For those that didn't grow up with an Apple II/IIe Karateka was a really, really, big deal. The animation was second to none and revolutionary. It's great to see the process described by Jordan himself! Back in those days, information was spread through BBSes and magazines, and I remember reading story after story on what was done for the motion capture. The visuals shown are what I expected to see, it was like looking back in time and extremely impressive! (Maybe there was a Nibble article with pictures?) Jordan, thank you for sharing your notes and stories with us!!!
Watching this video, I have a better appreciation for how important Karateka was to the creation of Prince of Persia. Sure if Karateka was a flop there would be no PoP and we can easily see the carry overs in story and animation. But trying to distance PoP from the combat of Karateka was news to me, I had no idea combat was a reluctant late addition. It is critical to story line and made the game more like an interactive movie. (I loved combat in Karateka!) The advancements in animation along with the tricks and traps in the PoP story would set the stage for game development for decades to come. It's hard to believe it almost didn't happen!!! I appreciate the back story including seeing the original videos used for mo-cap! Jordan's brother made a great and believable young hero, you can clearly see him in the final animation and that's awesome! While I'm late to this video I can't wait for my copies of the books to arrive.
pure brilliance is how he solved all these issues that create what we view as standard features in games. Watching this series always makes me appreciate games much more when I play them. As 90's kid seeing the step before the first generation of games I played makes me appreciate my childhood even more.
Same here, so happy to try it all! (in Those times) :)
Not only his own brilliance. Don't forget his team. Robert came up with the mirror for the creation of Shadow Man and without Tomi-san's nagging for combat, Prince of Persia would have languished.
@@LarixusSnydes Obviously
15:37 "My first attempt was to film myself and my officemate Robert with a sword doing fencing. Unfortunately that didn't work" I can see that 😄
It is amazing to see how the fluid movement were created. I spent countless hours playing this game. Knowing it was made by one guy is also out of this world.
Quake was also basically done by one guy (John Carmack, God of programming). That one impresses me much more.
Thanks Jordan for making my childhood unforgettable with those two games. I wish there's a 2022 version of Prince of Persia
I had really liked the animation when the character turned around at speed, had that little bit of a slide. Characters in other games before would just instantly be facing the other direction, but in this one it really felt like there was momentum and weight.
Interesting observation! There's lots of modern games being released right now that still lack that realism. Rotating a character in place or coming to a stop after a run still often feels like you're controlling a weightless character. Possibly because they prioritise "responsiveness" in most cases.
@@xemy1010 Responsiveness is a huge deal for a lot of games, but often it's acheived at the expense of the sense of weight and momentum, instead of being combined with it. Prince of Persia managed to be responsive while also retaining the feeling of weight. You didn't have your character slow down to a stop then turn around, losing responsiveness to maintain the feeling of momentum. Your character turning changed pose and slid believably - you got the immediate response of the turn, but also the sense of weight because the movement direction didn't change the instant the animation facing did.
Yeah, I remember super mario 64 did this too
Yes!! this added so much realism to it. I remember playing it as a toddler on my dad's 286 computer, only knew enough to type 'cd prince' and whatever the executable was named. I felt so proud the day I beat the game, no kid at school believed I had done it. I even found a trick to get to the second level in about 1-2 min without getting the sword, found out many years later it was a widely known 'trick'.
I remember doing that move as a kid. I'd love to see Jordan's brother's recording of it!
R.I.P Tomi Pierce (1953-2010) your insistance of combat and encouragement to jordan mechner make a promising idea into a classic game that will live forever.
I grew up with _Prince of Persia_
I love this game 😍
This was a great interview and a parable about adversity, patience and persistence. Well done Jordan! Tomi would be proud.
Defeating shadowman by putting away your sword is DEEP, I LOVE THAT. Something profound can be said about that solution, unfortunately i'm not the one to do it. If i had experienced that solution as a kid in the 80s, my mind would have been blown. It still holds up to this day, I'm impressed.
exactly - and to this day, the "nega" - or "evil self" opponent, has been taken for granted by millennial society -
@@DCAbsolutJohn1 It's a well-established ancient idea, but I wonder if Mechner was the first to use it in a video game.
I did that right away, it just happened that by mistake I pressed the Down key (it happens duringvintensive fighting)... and as it turned out that was the right move! 🤣
@@squamish4244 Prince of Persia released 2 years after Zelda II, in which the final boss is Dark Link, so no.
The way he talks, I feel like I could listen to him for hours.
Just watching this takes my breath away - Jordan Mechner is/was a God to me when I was younger. He grew into a mythical figure thanks the Prince of Persia - it shakes me up to see that he is an ACTUAL person- I idolised his games (and saw his name in-game for so long). Amazing!!!
Same reaction here, bro. I'm awestruck.
the jump at 5:56 and 5:57 matches the game so well. Jeez.
I love the dedication shown by Mechner and the discipline. Scanning all those photos of TV screens, tracing them and then programming it into code was not easy work. It's not glamorous either. He had a lot of late nights creating this game while other ppl were out partying. But it looks like he had the last laugh.
I am fascinated that this comes from the creator of your channel. The internet never ceases to impress me.
Wtf
@@stuporman It still stands that the guy managing a soft porn account replies to something as far as this.
he actually programmed everything in assembly language which is mind bendingly painful experience ... so kudos to jordan
@@cartergoodrich6404 soft porn? yeah, they sure are plump as pillows. lol
My mom could finish DOS Prince of Persia with ease on our old PC.
The sound came from inside the computer tower and the intro screen looked beautiful on a PC CRT, it was my first true contact with videogames.
Impressive, can't imagine my mom doing that. I played it as a kid too, but I never made it past the copy protection on level 1.
I could never finish the damn game.. Respect to ur mom!
Oh gosh hell yes! So did my mom! Her and her younger sister were absolutely crazy about PoP and determined to finish it. And they did, many times over! Now she plays MMORPGs and she's in her 60s. xD
Go moms!
This guy is an inspiration to all of us developers.
Listening to Jordan really makes you realize how much we take for granted with all these latest overpowered devices. Constraints really do lead you to clever solutions
I had an unspeakable honor to meet Jordan Mechner in Belgrade, Serbia in 2012. Me and my two friends sat down with him and his partner Whitney in an old Serbian tavern called The Question Mark for drinks and some food. He told us pretty much the same story as in this video. That experience was life changing, in the very least, for young and aspiring game developers like us at the time.
I remember that! Really enjoyed meeting up. Hope you're well.
@@JordanMechner Whoa, what a surprise! Great to hear from you at this thread, Jordan. All good on this end, thank you. Hope you're well too, it'd be great to catch up sometime. Until then - enjoy and stay healthy!
Problem solving: This is the very essence of programming and what makes it so appealing to so many people. This was especially true back then when, like Jordan said, there were virtually no tools for doing anything (other than compiling the actual code, but even that was quite limited compared to today). Guys working on their own for 6 months to a year or more on those old 8 bit systems were really inspiring to me.
Jordan Mechner is a true legend. There's some more discussion from him about making this game, here: czcams.com/video/CjE4JyfMVLc/video.html
Oh, and *Thank goodness for Tomi pushing you!*
Yes, and it was addicting--because the early micros were both your playgrounds and your teachers. You learned by doing, like in a game, except winning is far more rewarding.
@@joesterling4299 If this aspect of problem solving on retro computers interests you, there's an excellent series here on CZcams about the creation of and programming for the original Atari 2600 (VCS), called "Stella at 20". Here's a playlist: czcams.com/video/CNJ51okNKqI/video.html (This is from 1997 when the VCS was 20 years old).
Anyway, for those who don't know, the Atari VCS had EXTREMELY limited hardware specs, as it was originally intentioned to just play "Pong" type games, but the programmers managed to figure out how to get the absolute maximum out of the system over the years. It had:
- Only 128 bytes (yes, BYTES) of RAM
- No video buffer as we know it - You had to switch what the video chip was about to draw, on the fly as it swept down the screen
- Could only natively access (I think) 8k maximum (it had a limited version of the 6502 called the 6507)
Anyway, BECAUSE so much of what the system could or would do was up to the programmer, it opened up many possibilities, which is one of the reasons this seemingly limited system lasted as long as it did. Just to show you what is actually possible with this system, check out this homebrew version of Donkey Kong someone made for it: czcams.com/video/_Y6vhLDN3dI/video.html and compare it to the "official" version: czcams.com/video/IzI1RBdK2_g/video.html
As like a 4 year old playing prince of Persia, one of the things I loved so much about it was the animation of the dudes jump, and the climbing....all of the characters motions were so lifelike.
I never could beat that game. :(
We were there together, Jordan. But I was on the other side of the shop at 17 Paul Drive helping debug some Amiga stuff. My buddy Jason Swartz (Smooth Font Mover among other things) called me over and we hovered while watching you do some gameplay. I heard whispers that "he digitized his brother" while listening to you use terms like "easy step". Those were good times. So that and Print Shop and Carmen and all that were incredible. I always felt our claim to fame at Broderbund was both use of the hardware given, interoperability, and a product that shipped bug-free. Thanks, Jordan.
"But there was not enough memory for another character"
"Lol nevermind i just downloaded 12 more K of memory"
Awesome video
No he was just not aware of the language card trick until later. the Applesoft BASIC ROM was 'mapped' on part of the 64K address space, but you could actually 'map it out' and access the memory that was hidden there, memory that was lying there completely unused in most use of the Apple II.
I remember playing 'tricks' with that at school, where I was copying the ROM into it's corresponding RAM map, then go and 'patch' a few things and confuse the teacher to hell because his BASIC program didn't work on 'my' machine.
@@buserror "No"
Well, thanks for info but that was a joke. I think he wouldnt download more RAM to Apple II even if he wanted to.
@@buserror The Atari 800 has a similar issue with BASIC. It maps to the upper 8K of RAM, so BASIC programs have a 40KB usage limit. But *real men* only programmed in 6502 assembler back then, and BASIC was on a cartridge, so it can be pulled out of the system. (J/k about the "real men" thing, if it wasn't obvious. But Atari BASIC is an interpreter, not a compiler. Slow as molasses at 1.79 MHz.)
@@joesterling4299 *Shakes head* Please don't appease the shoulder chippers!
@@buserror He does don't mention that the game requires 128K though, it does not run on Apple II machines with only 48K of memory.
The animations of the character was really revolutionary during the time! I remember playing it on dos. Great game, great story, great video!
0:51 This sentence is enough to get a standing ovation
This guy is a true genius and perfectionist! I never got to finish the game, not without using the Megahit cheat that is, but one way or another, this game remains as one of all time favorites even today in 2022.
Absolutely read his book "The Making of Karateka" - it's basically his journal from being in College. It's absolutely amazing to read about him having a choice on a weekend to see the new Star Wars or Indiana Jones movie (in the 80s). So fun!
I remember how my father played it and my mom and I looked at it. I was scared of the blades (dying sequences) and everyone we knew played the game. The graphics looked so beautiful. But I was the one who found out how to defeat the shadow. And I was the one who finished the game years later.
I remember being so overwhelmed by this game that I didn't even bother to save the progress. I would restart from level 1 over and over again. Great times.
I can remember playing this game for the SNES, it was much more polished with all the extra bells and whistles. I had no idea how it was done but I always thought the character movements were so much smoother than most games.
The SNES version is best because of the excellent music.
I remember being obsessed with this game. So nice to find out so many years later that it was all made by one really nice bloke : )
This series consistently puts out some of the most captivating interviews I've seen.
Loved Prince of Persia, really surprised that's how it became what it did.
you made me watch a 20:42 min video. That's how much this game meant to me in my childhood. I used to sit in the chair as a 3 year old and watch my dad play this next to me. We never really crossed the 6th level without dying or the time running out. And each time we had to start over. Thank you for this game. It's big part of my early childhood
same for me, I can't recall the last time I watched a 20+ minute video without resorting to 2x speed. Played this game when I was 7.
As a solo game developer and huge fan of retro gaming, I really enjoy hearing these stories about the old classics, they really inspire me! Lorne Lanning was one of my favorites, and I should say that it shares a few similarities with this one when it comes to the concept of the project, it's really cool!
Great piece! Jordan Mechner this game is part of the fabric of my adolescence. Thank you for your contribution to PC gaming in the 80's. PoP and Karateka are hall of fame worthy.
Thank you!
I played Karateka on the C64. Graphics were nice but slow - apparently, the C64 version did not take advantage of sprites (and rater line Interrupts) to get fluid motion. "The Way of the Exploding Fist" which, IIRC, appeared much later (as well as "International Karate") had much better motion, but lacked the story.
Prince of Persia used less pixels for the character and was therefore much more fluid, but it never appeared on the C64...until 2011, so I missed it completely.
www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Prince_of_Persia
www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/Prince_of_Persia
I remember playing this on the school computers when I was 13. There wasn't anything like it, this was peak gaming technology and it blew me away.
I also sucked horribly at it, but I was still in awe!
While playing the Prince of Persia game I never realised how much of hard work goes on making the game. Gameplay was so good, fluid motion in bitmap graphics and a great gameplay on just 48kb of memory. Lots of respect and love ❤️🙏
Hello Jordan; I discovered the Prince of Persia I on PC, and now that I'm 52, still fills my hearth with emotions. Games like this, are unique ! genious work, ... how I envy you !!! The video was very funny and interesting, the perfect example of "if you want, you can"... A great inspiration.
This War Stories series is amazing. Thank you!
dude looks good for being in his 50s
right? i didn't understand at first, i was like "did this guy, in his late thirties or early forties, design PoP"?
That's just what not being overweight and working out looks like.
clray123 really ? Could have sworn he was fat
@@clray123 not necessarily at all mate. Some people just don't appear to age as fast. Everyone that's been in good shape their whole life won't look like that when they're almost 60.
I am 52 most people think I am about 40. I have never been over or under weight,so I am still a 32" waist as I was at 18. I exercise most days as cycling is my mode of transport,and I do manual work. I feel 52 at times,but I don't mind people thinking I am younger. He did look well for his age. I thought it must be old footage,until he mentioned that it had been 30 years since prince of Persia release.
This man is the single reason of my gaming addiction today.
I remembering my best friends dad used to do TV repair in communist romania and he somehow had a computer.. not sure if it was IBM or Apple but it had a 5.25 drive and a green computer monitor. I'd spend hours playing and replaying Prince of Persia, the only game he had. It's crazy to think this was made by one man. I had so much fun playing this game! The new versions don't do it justice.
It's incredible to see how that unforgettable, signature animation of my youth was actually created. Those days required genuine ingenuity from developers. To see that it was all invented by one man brings on some serious nostalgia.
This series is legitimately one of the most interesting things I've ever watched.
Karateka was such a hit. Definitely one of my all time favs on C64., with lode runner ; simplicity, beauty and efficient exploitation of thethin resources of the machines. That was a golden age for technical talent and creativity.
The story of shadowman is beautiful!
Insane story. Man, glad he found this solution. Prince of Persia was one of the first computer games I remember playing. The start of my journey as a gamer. Now Warrior Within is one of my favourite games of all time.
This game aged like wine, the character's "weight" is remarkable and still unique.
Prince of Persia on DOS was one of the first games I ever played and it remains one of my favorites. Great balance of puzzle and action. I loved the dynamic with Shadowman. I still remember the first time I came across the mirror and then all the times Shadowman messed with you. I didn't beat Shadowman until the 3rd time because I tried to beat him by conventional means the first two. I still go back on DOSBox occasionally to play it.
This was also one of the first games I played. I started trying to speed run it while I was at uni and managed to complete it in 26 minutes (still nowhere near as good as any recorded speed runs I've watched). But competing against my own best times was a lot of fun. Also until today I didn't know the name of Shadowman, I used to call him the mirror man because he appear from the mirror.
One of the most memorable games I played. So much imagination that was put in this game.
That mirror sequence where you spawn shadowman is brilliant. Truly shocking for an Apple II game.
The first videogame I've ever played. It's a masterpiece.
I played it on a flip phone. It's a really fun game.
Interesting, I might just have to pick up a copy of that journal book, makes me want to write more journal entries about game development for my own little project. (...dreaming of grandeur and future generations clamoring to read my game journals 30 years from now...)
Ha, you'll find plenty of delusions of grandeur in my pages! No journal would be complete without them.
Good luck with your endeavors :)
What a game it was. The first realistic game that gave me chills. I literally was not able to watch the character die, everything felt soo real. Its amazing to see what the designer had to go through to create this amazing piece of work. Thanks for this great work & thanks for this interview.
I was blown as a kid by the smoothness of the character's movements. GENIUS how it was done.
Man I needed this, I needed some escape form Corona.
You and me both man. This was a great piece
This is the rhythm of the night
The night
Oh yeah
Bring those Coronas to me. I need a beer.
@DPAD-FTW It's a serious pandemic.
@DPAD-FTW Dude screw you. I work front desk at a major bank in a large European city and have astma. You know what COVID does to someone with astma?
These developers are so inspirational they have done so much hard work and efforts...and if you look back at the technology they had it feels almost impossible. Young developers like me are struggling in learning such small things and we think we have accomplished a lot but when i see these developers i feel like i have a lot to learn. The dedication they had is just amazing.
Didn’t realize until years later the Apple II version was the original. Considering the limitations and having seen that version before makes the game even more interesting.
Had a lot of fun with Karateka years earlier which was a mind blowing game at the time. The first crop of fighting games were hitting the arcades. Beat ‘‘em up Kung Fu Master made a statement also. To see a game like Karateka with cinematic moments and character animation was not like anything else at the time.
Prince of Persia was the first time a character on the screen actually looked human by the way it moved across the screen. Seeing it the very first time was a moment I have never forgotten. It was a technical breakthrough!
One of the greatest men in history of video games. His true masterpiece, The Last Express, sadly, never got the recognition it deserves, because of organizational difficulties that resulted in zero pre-release marketing.
These war stories are some of the best content on the internet. They break down monumentally complex achievements into human bite size pieces. I love hearing how great minds overcome great obstacles.
Don't be sad czcams.com/video/pfuvhCE-AEs/video.html ,,
Another fascinating dive that never shifts the focus from the subject and their inspirations. Great work guys, you are my favourite game documentary creators by a long stretch.
1985 I was gifted my first computer, a Tandy 1000. That summer, I was enrolled in a computer day camp at the local college. They had Apple II clones. One kid brought a Karateka disc. It was the biggest hit of the whole week. Everyone wanted to play it, and most got a bit of play in. I got the game for myself the next year when the PC port was available. One of the all time great games. Prince of Persia, I played on Amiga when I got one in 1990.
I grew up with Karateka..but when Prince Of Persia...I was hooked on it... Felt the game was ahead of its time.. My friends came over and saw me playing it on the pc and they were blown away of how the platform , the movement of the character, the level... Price of Persia 2 was another favourite... Just nostalgia... Thank you again for sharing this.
This is the game that started the prince of Persia series. Mind-blowing that even back then it has the elements that made the sequels great
Wonderful. Prince of Persia was my very first videogame when I was 3 y.o. and I've always wondered how it had such wonderfully accurate animations compared to the average game. Mechner is a goddamn genius.
Amazing, amazing!... Everyone should see this! It's such a shame that Prince of Persia was not originally released on ZX Spectrum. Probably because that platform was never really popular in the US. The game was ported to Speccy by a group of Russian programmers in the 90-ies though. :) BTW, I never knew it was originally written for Apple IIe, in my childhood we played it on IBM PC.
The Apple II also was not really popular in the USA. They never had that come computer craze of the 1980s to begin with. That is why Prince of Persia was developed starting in 1985 and released in 1989(wtf?), on a computer with even worse graphics than the speccy but that did cost more than 10 times as much. While the Mac and ST were already out and the Amiga about to follow. None of them selling in big numbers like those of Europe. I also thought the game came out on PC first.....
I've been playing PoP on Raspberry Pi ROM. I assume it is the original game, the biggest pain in the arse is that when you die you go right back to the beginning. So I got bored lol, but i appreciate the amount of work that went into this game, well done Jordan.
"Oh god theres no way I can get another character in this game"
"oh look I found a workaround to make a negative of the player character to fight so it wont take up more memory"
"oh and also I added the grand wazoo, guards and we added skeletons"
I was thinking the exact same thing...
He said he found 12k of memory in the auxiliary memory card of the Apple II for the additional characters.
Except only the Apple ][e supports auxiliary cards and it's a 64K system, not 48K.
And there's no such thing as any "hidden 12KB" on them.
The ones from Apple were either 1K or 64K.
@@Daniel_Klugh lol nerd
@@Daniel_Klugh reading the Wikipedia page for the Apple II says the regular Apple II had seven standard expansion slots, and that the 16K Language Card was frequently used to increase the base memory by 16K. So that would be where he got the 12K from that he used, is my guess.
PoP is the first game I ever played and is what sparked my lifelong love of videogames. Thanks to your passion and ingenuity!
Prince of Persia was the reason I became a PC gamer. Back in 1990 I saw someone playing this game at Radio Shack. I bought my first 386 PC with windows 3.1 but the game run smoothly on MS DOS. I still have the original floppy disk. The game was so satisfying that when you die and start from the very beginning, you don't mind because there is always something you want to explore or try differently.
This was my childhood. I remember me and my brother running home after school. So whoever was home first could play first.
Good memories.