I noticed your fingers is wrapped up take care of your fingers sir thats how you make your money working with your hands we need you around for long time praying for speedy recovery 🙏
I've been hearing people say smaller woofers are more punchy and not as good for lows compared to larger woofers since I was young. In my opinion, 12's have the all around best sound. Whereas I really really like the dual 8 inch horn box I purchased I wish I would have gotten a dual 12 inch horn box. 12 inch subwoofers can dig deeper easier in the lows and still give the punch when needed. It sits in the middle of the common subwoofer sizes for a reason. 8's, 10's, (12's), 15's, 18's. Best of both worlds kind of thing. Imo
Depending on the subwoofer and it's frequency because I have two 3500 series Dd The 12s frequency was 34 hertz and then when I changed to 15s the frequency went up to 38 hertz so the 12s got lower than the 15s now my 99Dd 18 frequency is 26 hertz it gets low and it can play up in the high 40s because it has a wide frequency range
I have not read anyone's responses but what you are referring to is surface area; and I agree with everything you've stated. WINISD clearly demonstrates efficiency gain as it relates to extended bass shelf with larger drivers. It's like how birds with larger wings fly higher and don't flap their wings at all traveling LONG DISTANCE like BASS. The same could be said for a humming bird, but it's EXERTING so much more energy and has to survive off of sugar water! lol 6.5"
Sorry, to add this but I forgot. It's transient response too, which is what led me to increase my port area per your videos as it relates to port compression @ POWER.
I swapped out my DC M4 2ohm for a G7 2ohm 8 in a T line single sub setup and let’s say Day and night difference! The G7 in the t line is 3x louder! The G7 is very musical, bass is much deeper and I can play any genre of music with it. I have a DC 1.2k on it originally was running a full DC. I don’t regret the decision at all. The DC M4 is a good sub it just didn’t fit my needs for the single 8 build. I went with the T line for the musical/low output it has, the G7 delivered
I think the surround played a major part in that . That fat roll surround is just not musically balanced. Fat roll kills lows for sure but sucks higher frequencies. I told Rusty this. Stay tuned DC listens to consumers and adjusts.
I believe you're correct. It extends to higher frequency drivers as well. Tekton Design makes High-Fi home audio speakers. They use a patented 6 1 inch tweeters array instead of a larger midrange. This gives a very clean and accurate midrange sound virtually eliminating distortion. Every reviewer says the same thing, "best mids of any speaker at any price." Keep in mind this is used in a couple thousand dollar speakers in a world where speakers costing tens of thousands is common.
Also the weight of the moving parts is heavier on a larger driver given they are the same series of the same manufacturer. It is easier to change direction on a lighter mass than a heavier one so the smaller one should be better controlled and more accurate.
Put them in a sealed recommended sized enclosure and you will notice the difference. A ported enclosure is catered to customizing the sound reproduction to suit the listener. A sealed enclosure will give you the quality of the subwoofer. With that said. A perfectly built box like what MBE builds will make any subwoofer sound good.
Before this starts.. based on title alone.. NO! Dampening power, efficiency of the driver and the ohm load you run at has WAAAAY more to do with this then the size of the driver. The box also plays a lot into this.. if you overdo the port too much the driver will be very slow to respond. If you under do the port it will be super responsive but lack lows.. The same goes for box volume. Too big a box vs too small.. works the same and imop even more then the port being too large or small.. I’m I’ve the opinion much like what is being said here a larger driver is more accurate and tighter by basic design cause it moves more air on less power as well as it’s generally a more efficient driver.. Side note.. there some kids having a blast in the background 😂.
Thank you!!! Just started this video but man, everyday I’m wondering how to get my L7 15” to the most accurate enclosure. I bought a 2.6 cube prefab but that’s too small, trunk of Nissan Sentra with large trunk opening… eclipse 8 volt rms output to a JbL A-1000. , 1000 watts at 2 ohm and L7 is a dual 4… I may have a winner here ! Il have learned much more from this channel! Love the channel I will buy a box one day, I’m rising in my career just got a raise. May God bless all y’all! ! MBE is the TRUTH!
That looks like a pretty legit amplifier. Keep in mind that when you're wired to 2 ohm your going to have impedance rise that's probably going to put it closer to a 4 ohm load. It's not going to output it's full power, but it should run cooler and draw less amperage. If you wanted to, you could pick up a second amplifier from the big A store for $200 and strap them together for 2,000 watts at 4 ohm. Another suggestion, if you really want accuracy you might try sealing your 2.6 cube box. You'll have less maximum output, but it might give you the sound quality you're looking for. If you really need the higher output of a ported enclosure then you should look into a bigger box. A bigger box will give you more output at the very low frequencies.
@@JasonWW2000 thank you! I had an older model L7 15” 15 years ago on a kicker 1200.1 which is 1420 watts at 14.4 so right at 1200 watts at 13.2 in a very small sealed… but it wasn’t loud enough, I’m just going to install this and build a 4 cubic foot net, 52 square inch port 30 inches long, that’s right in the middle. I wonder what would be tighter bass , the 6 cubic foot box, or the 4 cubic feet box ? Probably the 4 foot box right ? I feel that’s a good compromise. Thank you for helping! Any other suggestions welcome. God bless from Little Rock Arkansas
@@JayBeezy31I don't think I'm qualified to answer what's going to give a tighter bass sound. (I've only used sealed and infinite baffle setups for the last 30 years. I've only been experimenting with ported enclosures for 2 years.) If you call Kicker during normal hours I'm sure they could recommend an enclosure size that would give you the type of sound you're looking for. In my experiments the bigger net box volume is going to shift the output curve to deliver more low end bass and less upper bass. So if your looking for more output at 30hz, more net volume is the way to go. Tuning frequency is also important. If space is a premium for you, I'd recommend an aero port. A 6" should be plenty. Not only does it take up less internal air space, but it's also easily tuned. You can tape together different lengths for different tuning frequencies and when you find your favorite you can glue it solid. If you want to get really technical you can buy a DATS that will let you measure the impedance curve and it'll tell you the exact tuning frequency. It's quite easy to use and I like knowing the exact frequency. You can save a little money with a slot port, but it's hard to change the tune on it. I've also noticed a lot of software programs that tell you how long to make your port to get a specific tune can be off by quite a bit (3 to 4 Hertz). Even without a DATS and not knowing the specific tuning frequency, you can still play around with the aero port length to find what sounds best to you.
I’ve learned that I don’t need more power. Barely use half the power I got with my 8s, but I do sense I’m missing some lower frequencies. So I increased cone area and sensitivity with 10s. Prolly need to upgrade the amp too.
What happens is that the larger driver the cone wobbles alot so the bass doesn't sound as good and tight but you can fix this with carbon fiber cone. That's why SVS uses carbon fiber on their woofers especially the pb ultra 16.
You are right with your explanation. Smaller driver sound tight because they have more control of the cone which of course less distortion. Larger drivers like a 12 or 15 needs a larger voice coil to help with control. That's why SVS uses an 8 inch voice coil in their pb ultra 16 woofer. Tight bass and extremely low distortion from a 16 inch driver that sounds better than anything I've heard even from a small driver.
I concur. There are a few drivers that use a larger coil (5” greater) the help keep the cone rigid by lessening the distance from coil to cone edge. My neighbor has a SVS sub. But that is a home audio setup. Sounds impeccable. Yet a environment would kill the greatness of it. And you need a very clean dampened amplifier. Here I’m talking of car audio and the subwoofers there.
Very intuitive topic you brought up. I would like to ask though, in your explanation, you mentioned the outside forces(open air) being a concern to the accuracy and tightness of the bass. If you could control the environment wouldnt the statement then be true the smaller subs, no matter the brand, would be more accurate and tighter? Like in the case of inverted subs. You are know the subs parameters, and you build a box to the specs. By inverting the sub, wouldn't you now control the environment the displaced air is coming from, and be able to use less power? Hope my question makes some sense to you or the community.
This is simple physics. The smaller the sub, the more it has to move further in and out to produce the same sound a larger subwoofer does. Doesn't matter what you do with the box or environment, this fact never changes. So ask yourself a simple question. Is it easier to control something moving further in and out? Of course not, how could it. How can a smaller sub be tighter when it's moving more? How can it be more accurate if it's moving more? The more a speaker moves, the more opportunity it has for distortion, which means how can a smaller sub ever be better? They can't and never will be.
This myth MB is referring to is known as “Attack & Decay”. Attack is the speed at which the cone goes outward into excursion. The Decay is the speed at which the cone moves inward scientifically speaking. But the way u explained it is exactly what’s going on . I personally have 8s -21s and can say all of my 18s and 21s move well especially the way I build my boxes and how well my amps perform (damping factor) also contributes to this theory but it is definitely easier to control the mechanical force and physics within a subwoofer with a smaller cone diameter…
When I'm driving down the street and playing some heavy bass notes I noticed my 99Dd 18 it looks like waving from side to side but thing about Dds they make their subwoofers to handle deep bass with control You don't see their surrounds flopping like sundown fi or deaf bounce subwoofers They keep their gap tight around their voice coil 😂😂😂
It doesn't wave side to side, you don't have one, no woofer looks like this in real life, your talking about how one looks that you saw on the internet that was filmed in a phone .
Praying for some healing on you brother.
I noticed your fingers is wrapped up take care of your fingers sir thats how you make your money working with your hands we need you around for long time praying for speedy recovery 🙏
Very articulate explanation MB👍I always had the same notion that smaller drivers had a tighter reproduction of bass, I thought I was tripping.
I've been hearing people say smaller woofers are more punchy and not as good for lows compared to larger woofers since I was young. In my opinion, 12's have the all around best sound. Whereas I really really like the dual 8 inch horn box I purchased I wish I would have gotten a dual 12 inch horn box. 12 inch subwoofers can dig deeper easier in the lows and still give the punch when needed. It sits in the middle of the common subwoofer sizes for a reason. 8's, 10's, (12's), 15's, 18's. Best of both worlds kind of thing. Imo
Depending on the subwoofer and it's frequency because I have two 3500 series Dd The 12s frequency was 34 hertz and then when I changed to 15s the frequency went up to 38 hertz so the 12s got lower than the 15s now my 99Dd 18 frequency is 26 hertz it gets low and it can play up in the high 40s because it has a wide frequency range
I have not read anyone's responses but what you are referring to is surface area; and I agree with everything you've stated. WINISD clearly demonstrates efficiency gain as it relates to extended bass shelf with larger drivers. It's like how birds with larger wings fly higher and don't flap their wings at all traveling LONG DISTANCE like BASS.
The same could be said for a humming bird, but it's EXERTING so much more energy and has to survive off of sugar water! lol 6.5"
Sorry, to add this but I forgot. It's transient response too, which is what led me to increase my port area per your videos as it relates to port compression @ POWER.
I swapped out my DC M4 2ohm for a G7 2ohm 8 in a T line single sub setup and let’s say Day and night difference!
The G7 in the t line is 3x louder! The G7 is very musical, bass is much deeper and I can play any genre of music with it.
I have a DC 1.2k on it originally was running a full DC. I don’t regret the decision at all.
The DC M4 is a good sub it just didn’t fit my needs for the single 8 build. I went with the T line for the musical/low output it has, the G7 delivered
I think the surround played a major part in that . That fat roll surround is just not musically balanced. Fat roll kills lows for sure but sucks higher frequencies. I told Rusty this. Stay tuned DC listens to consumers and adjusts.
@@M.B.Enclosuresit’s still beast 8!
That G7 though man I can play decaf it doesn’t matter.
I believe you're correct. It extends to higher frequency drivers as well. Tekton Design makes High-Fi home audio speakers. They use a patented 6 1 inch tweeters array instead of a larger midrange. This gives a very clean and accurate midrange sound virtually eliminating distortion. Every reviewer says the same thing, "best mids of any speaker at any price." Keep in mind this is used in a couple thousand dollar speakers in a world where speakers costing tens of thousands is common.
I would say the enclosure has more to do with accuracy than size of the woofer.
Have to agree especially after you listen to a true sq car running 12s, 15s. It’s box, design, tuning.
Always laying down the actual factual 🤘🏼
Also the weight of the moving parts is heavier on a larger driver given they are the same series of the same manufacturer. It is easier to change direction on a lighter mass than a heavier one so the smaller one should be better controlled and more accurate.
Put them in a sealed recommended sized enclosure and you will notice the difference. A ported enclosure is catered to customizing the sound reproduction to suit the listener. A sealed enclosure will give you the quality of the subwoofer. With that said. A perfectly built box like what MBE builds will make any subwoofer sound good.
Hey man sorry to see your hurt heal up bro
Before this starts.. based on title alone.. NO! Dampening power, efficiency of the driver and the ohm load you run at has WAAAAY more to do with this then the size of the driver. The box also plays a lot into this.. if you overdo the port too much the driver will be very slow to respond. If you under do the port it will be super responsive but lack lows..
The same goes for box volume. Too big a box vs too small.. works the same and imop even more then the port being too large or small..
I’m I’ve the opinion much like what is being said here a larger driver is more accurate and tighter by basic design cause it moves more air on less power as well as it’s generally a more efficient driver..
Side note.. there some kids having a blast in the background 😂.
Thank you!!! Just started this video but man, everyday I’m wondering how to get my L7 15” to the most accurate enclosure. I bought a 2.6 cube prefab but that’s too small, trunk of Nissan Sentra with large trunk opening… eclipse 8 volt rms output to a JbL A-1000. , 1000 watts at 2 ohm and L7 is a dual 4… I may have a winner here ! Il have learned much more from this channel! Love the channel I will buy a box one day, I’m rising in my career just got a raise. May God bless all y’all! ! MBE is the TRUTH!
That looks like a pretty legit amplifier. Keep in mind that when you're wired to 2 ohm your going to have impedance rise that's probably going to put it closer to a 4 ohm load. It's not going to output it's full power, but it should run cooler and draw less amperage. If you wanted to, you could pick up a second amplifier from the big A store for $200 and strap them together for 2,000 watts at 4 ohm. Another suggestion, if you really want accuracy you might try sealing your 2.6 cube box. You'll have less maximum output, but it might give you the sound quality you're looking for. If you really need the higher output of a ported enclosure then you should look into a bigger box. A bigger box will give you more output at the very low frequencies.
@@JasonWW2000 thank you! I had an older model L7 15” 15 years ago on a kicker 1200.1 which is 1420 watts at 14.4 so right at 1200 watts at 13.2 in a very small sealed… but it wasn’t loud enough, I’m just going to install this and build a 4 cubic foot net, 52 square inch port 30 inches long, that’s right in the middle. I wonder what would be tighter bass , the 6 cubic foot box, or the 4 cubic feet box ? Probably the 4 foot box right ? I feel that’s a good compromise. Thank you for helping! Any other suggestions welcome. God bless from Little Rock Arkansas
@@JayBeezy31I don't think I'm qualified to answer what's going to give a tighter bass sound. (I've only used sealed and infinite baffle setups for the last 30 years. I've only been experimenting with ported enclosures for 2 years.) If you call Kicker during normal hours I'm sure they could recommend an enclosure size that would give you the type of sound you're looking for.
In my experiments the bigger net box volume is going to shift the output curve to deliver more low end bass and less upper bass. So if your looking for more output at 30hz, more net volume is the way to go. Tuning frequency is also important.
If space is a premium for you, I'd recommend an aero port. A 6" should be plenty. Not only does it take up less internal air space, but it's also easily tuned. You can tape together different lengths for different tuning frequencies and when you find your favorite you can glue it solid.
If you want to get really technical you can buy a DATS that will let you measure the impedance curve and it'll tell you the exact tuning frequency. It's quite easy to use and I like knowing the exact frequency.
You can save a little money with a slot port, but it's hard to change the tune on it. I've also noticed a lot of software programs that tell you how long to make your port to get a specific tune can be off by quite a bit (3 to 4 Hertz). Even without a DATS and not knowing the specific tuning frequency, you can still play around with the aero port length to find what sounds best to you.
I’ve learned that I don’t need more power. Barely use half the power I got with my 8s, but I do sense I’m missing some lower frequencies.
So I increased cone area and sensitivity with 10s. Prolly need to upgrade the amp too.
What happens is that the larger driver the cone wobbles alot so the bass doesn't sound as good and tight but you can fix this with carbon fiber cone. That's why SVS uses carbon fiber on their woofers especially the pb ultra 16.
You are right with your explanation. Smaller driver sound tight because they have more control of the cone which of course less distortion. Larger drivers like a 12 or 15 needs a larger voice coil to help with control. That's why SVS uses an 8 inch voice coil in their pb ultra 16 woofer. Tight bass and extremely low distortion from a 16 inch driver that sounds better than anything I've heard even from a small driver.
I concur. There are a few drivers that use a larger coil (5” greater) the help keep the cone rigid by lessening the distance from coil to cone edge. My neighbor has a SVS sub. But that is a home audio setup. Sounds impeccable. Yet a environment would kill the greatness of it. And you need a very clean dampened amplifier. Here I’m talking of car audio and the subwoofers there.
@@M.B.Enclosures yes
💯
Fact, not fiction. Cone area is king. Subwoofas live clean powa. Mumble mumble. Gotta eat. Got dem 15's. Yea, baby! Amen.
love these lessons. really do but please get a mic on your shirt or close by to make the audio field a little more even
Very intuitive topic you brought up. I would like to ask though, in your explanation, you mentioned the outside forces(open air) being a concern to the accuracy and tightness of the bass. If you could control the environment wouldnt the statement then be true the smaller subs, no matter the brand, would be more accurate and tighter? Like in the case of inverted subs. You are know the subs parameters, and you build a box to the specs. By inverting the sub, wouldn't you now control the environment the displaced air is coming from, and be able to use less power? Hope my question makes some sense to you or the community.
This is simple physics. The smaller the sub, the more it has to move further in and out to produce the same sound a larger subwoofer does. Doesn't matter what you do with the box or environment, this fact never changes. So ask yourself a simple question. Is it easier to control something moving further in and out? Of course not, how could it. How can a smaller sub be tighter when it's moving more? How can it be more accurate if it's moving more? The more a speaker moves, the more opportunity it has for distortion, which means how can a smaller sub ever be better? They can't and never will be.
I think its all in relation.. and what someone is doing or demanding from the woofer..
All other things being equal
What are your recommendations for a reasonable priced 8" subwoofer. I've seen several on your channel. Best bang for your buck, if you will.
This myth MB is referring to is known as “Attack & Decay”. Attack is the speed at which the cone goes outward into excursion. The Decay is the speed at which the cone moves inward scientifically speaking. But the way u explained it is exactly what’s going on . I personally have 8s -21s and can say all of my 18s and 21s move well especially the way I build my boxes and how well my amps perform (damping factor) also contributes to this theory but it is definitely easier to control the mechanical force and physics within a subwoofer with a smaller cone diameter…
Why are you always going to extremes? You didn't have to tie the stick to your fingers. You could just use the regular pointer.😅
ok you cant be waving your hand round like this with out telling us what the hell happened
What size sub can you run in a 2006 Toyota tundra?
Literally anything you want. Just make sure you have a good tuned box
My homie has 4 - 8's in a ford f-150 and that shit sounds like 12's....tundra and f-150 are about the same size
Body size yes but,under seat they are night in day different.
When I'm driving down the street and playing some heavy bass notes I noticed my 99Dd 18 it looks like waving from side to side but thing about Dds they make their subwoofers to handle deep bass with control You don't see their surrounds flopping like sundown fi or deaf bounce subwoofers They keep their gap tight around their voice coil 😂😂😂
And the cone of a proprietary mixture that Jassa keeps improving
It doesn't wave side to side, you don't have one, no woofer looks like this in real life, your talking about how one looks that you saw on the internet that was filmed in a phone .
@@M.B.Enclosures That is correct sir
@@skateboardkid420I didn't say that it is wavy I said it looks like it is wavy
The bigger driver have more mechanical noise.
Why would you say that?
Also false, you and mbe don't have any idea what your talking about
So we're just not gonna talk about motor force? Just the edge of the cone, bro you have no idea what you're talking about. Cone flex lol.