It’s almost like he deliberately tested the adults in his life the day of the shooting by seeing IF THEY (parents and councilors from hs, admin) WOULD EVEN CARE ENOUGH ABOUT HIM TO CHECK HIS BOOKBAG FOR ANYTHING DANGEROUS…. This really screams out to me…especially as a seasoned teacher 😢 Just so so very heartbreaking and sad all around…
I can cleary see, how Ethan always walked the hallways and did the lunches. Alone. Nobody ever paying attention to him. Seeing him. Noticing him. Talking to him. Saying 'hey' to him. Just the silent kid. Never in any trouble. Never a headache to any teacher. Just invisible. Always his head down, like in court. Covid. Virtual learning. Grades got worse. Ethan barely made 9th grade. While his grades were always A's and B's. Starting 10th grade. Ethan sees everybody interacting/laughing/ connecting/ etc and still Ethan is invisible. Fools his parents, that everything is fine. No worries. Parents think, Ethan is doing better. As a familything, going to the shootingrange, because that is what Ethan likes. Ethan doesn't tell, that he liked torturing babybirds in May/April. Ethan doesn't tell his parents, that he wants to drown little kids. Ethan doesn't tell, desire to shoot up the school. Ethan is manipulating his parents, to get the gun. I really think, after always being ignored in the hallways of the school, by everyone, he finally felt powerfull with his gun. That teacherlady, who spoke with him, and said: "I couldn't believe it was Ethan", that lady, who knew him from 3rd/4rd grade, snapped Ethan out of it. Ethan could have killed her. But he didn't. She spoke to Ethan. Snapped him out of his rampage. His 'videogame'. His mind. A friendly voice. Who noticed him. Saw him. Said to him: "Ethan are you okay?". While he was the shooter. And did the horrible things, what he did....
@@belleblaas3843 Your empathy for this killer sure speaks volumes about your state of mind. I bet you would be willing to visit him in jail and have his baby. How pathetic. You should have your own head examined because you need mental health help. Something is not right with you. Sadly far too many people like you here making excuses for a murderer. Clearly the victims mean nothing.
Seeing the father of one of the murdered boys with tears in his eyes. Shocked at what he was watching on the screen seeing just how much pain Ethan was in after the shootings just how seriously his mental illness effected him. Maybe that’s why they made the choice to charge the parents because the victim’s family felt some kind of empathy for a child who needed help asked for help many times without receiving it.. Seeing this could have been prevented.
I had the same reaction because even that he killed his child is as a father watching is heartbreaking to watch and hear him too. Is just like watching the parents were told your child is dead is heartbreaking too. Today his mother got held accountable and guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Now after watching his mother’s trial and going back and watched his now I see the negligence. This doctor explained really good the negligence at home. I pray for all of them.
Ahh man! That judge is married. Good for his wife! What an exceptional human he is. Lucky woman he’s got. Thank you Judge for taking your job seriously and i hope other judges are watching you and taking notes
No kidding. I thought Jennifer’s defense attorney was not playing with a full deck or this was her very first case ever. However this defense attorney badgered a witness in part 3 so badly I was yelling “make her stop!!”
Horrifying upbringing, filled with parental neglect, parental cruelty, as shown when the parents force md EC to dispose of his dog, as well as being told to "suck it up" whenever he expressed pain, stress, feelings of being overwhelmed. In short, his parents gave no fux about EC.
Keep in mind, a lot of textmessages are to his friend. Kids overexaggerate. I'm still wondering about, what did the friend answer, while Ethan was so enthusiastic about killing babybirds April/May. Did the best friend encourage him? How did the best friend react? With trials, we didn't get to see, the answers of the best friend. Logic. The kid also probably 15. But were they sharing stories? Biding up to each other? How terrible their lifes were? My son also 'hated' me, when he was 15. Everything my fault.....
He knew no one would search the backpack bc he knew no one cared or took him seriously. It breaks my heart for everyone involved. Everyone failed this kid and they failed those who were killed. Every adult has failed this kid miserably
I can't imagine struggling with horrendous intrusive thoughts and hoping someone will see my red flags and help me yet person after person fails to act. I imagine at some point you'd feel either that nobody cares so you might as well do it, or that because nobody is acting the universe wants you to do it. And not only were adults failing to act but he actually says that he believes his parents would be angry if he tried to seek help on his own. This situation was such a powder keg and unfortunately it blew
Yup. The parents are most culpable obviously but even all the school administrators pass the buck like "that wasn't my role to make that decision" to help him. Please.
Your empathy for this sick murderer is disgusting. I am a lawyer, I worked as a paralegal in New York before moving to Europe. This is how American trials go. THROW THE PARENTS UNDER THE BUS NOW IS THE STANDARD DEFENSE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE FACTS PRESENTED ARE ACCURATE. There is AMPLE evidence from Jennifer Crumbley´s trial that they were a normal American family. In fact more like your own family than you might think. But critical thinking and logical discernment are just not your thing. I can gather a bunch of ¨experts" chosen by me and sit you in a room telling you biased and skewed sob stories and lies for days to convince you of something even if it is completely untrue. YOU @nettialmquist8285 would fall for it 100 percent. That is the problem with cases being decided by ¨jurors¨ that are essentially any moron picked from the streets such as yourself. I have studied international law and I can tell you ONLY AMERICA puts justice in the hands of idiots off the streets. In every other developed country on Earth, juries are made up of Jurists, actual legal experts who are not swayed by emotions and hearsay or biased media like you morons are. Nikolas Cruz the Parkland shooter threw similar fits. This guy just picked it up from the standard playbook. These things are EASILY FAKED. BY the way.
I wish his mom if not both parents would have been able to hear this Drs testimony about Ethan's results so she knew that they were terribly terribly wrong in not getting him help for his mental health. If they would have gotten him help whenever he first started having episodes this wouldn't have gotten to where it did in 2021.
At first, I didnt see the parents being held responsible for manslaughter. I now feel they need to ADD neglect of a minor child to those charges. This child was raised by the internet and the school system, and we all know how horrible the school system is! ( not the teachers , per se, but the system itself! The parents and the school administration failed this child. So sad. He will spend life in prison, and deservedly so, because he took innocent lives, and that was wrong. Sad, because never really had a chance to realize what real love and security, not to memtion stability is. I do believe there may be Brain Injury. My brother suffered from TBI, traumatic brain injury, and it totally change his personality, changed his life. He died 17 years ago, by taking his own life, because he couldnt bare not being able to function as a grown man, and he knew he would never have a family, nor anything he dreamed of, because of his disabilities the brain injury caused. Psychotic breaks happen even with TBI. My brother had support, and love and security, this child had nobody to give him that! He is one of many children raising themselves…….this is heartbreaking. So many lives lost, and changed, because parents neglect the most important responsibility they have: their child!
I don't know where to draw the line. On the one hand, I believe some people are just born evil, on the other, total neglect could cause hatred to overwhelm a weak character. I don't know, my opinion shifts with every witness.
It took me a long time to type this so I'm sharing it everywhere: My husband called me a softy because I'm having second thoughts regarding Ethan’s punishment. His parents did absolutely nothing to help their son, even when he told them he needed help, that he was hearing voices and having hallucination. Knowing his teachers were concerned with his growing fascination with guns, bullets and shootings, his parents bought a weapon more suited to carry out his mission. I remember being 15 and the psychical and emotional rollercoaster I was on. Your body is developing in ways you don’t quite understand. Fortunately, most have parental support. Unfortunately, Ethan was born to two self-centered losers. Ethan mentions a friend who is no longer in school. I sense he didn’t have many friends and, sorely lacking in parental guidance, he might have been floundering on how to deal with these changes. The influx of hormones leads to emotional responses like anxiety, depression or extreme mood swings. One can begin withdrawing, not doing things once enjoyed, isolate from friends and family. Increased testosterone may cause moody behavior, emotional outbursts, and withdrawing into oneself. Human brains don’t fully mature until 25 or 35 yro. Unmatured adolescent brains can act on impulse, misread or misinterpret social cues and emotions, get into accidents of all kinds, get involved in fights or engage in dangerous or risky behavior. Also, they most likely will act before they think, jump into situations before considering consequences and not realize their actions are dangerous or inappropriate Taking all this it account, perhaps 25 to life might have been more suitable for Ethan. I don’t know if they acquitted or convicted mom and dad. The penalty for involuntary manslaughter is up to 15 years in prison. They need to do some time and pay restitution to the victim’s families or get hit with a wrongful death suit. I’m finding them as culpable as Ethan. Unless he is a psychopath or sociopath.
His mother and father failed him, the school system failed him and the mental health system failed him! This is a horrendous and terrible situation involving all that failed this boy. It was at if he wasn’t given any attention or taken seriously. I pray that he gets the attention from a qualified therapist. He showed signs that he was disturbed! Why did he spare the life of the woman assistant principal whoever she was that was talking to him after he killed that young man she was trying to save???
Did he act like that every day, in school, at the store, etc. I doubt it. So where does the acting end and reality begin. I do believe his parents did not take proper care of him.
As i was a "feral child" too i can assure you he knows what he is doing but there is a bubbling anger and rage that goes on inside of him...his brain and maturation is stunted. Even at my age of 50 i still feel like an 8 yr old. He can be rehabbed, but that is impossible in jail, and thats where he should be
At 08:20 in the video - how can the prosecuting attorney claim that there is no evidence that Ethan ever had a brain injury? Are they forgetting the security camera footage from when he was 14 years old and fell and hit his head at the diner where he was working? You can find the video of that fall online, and it had sound. Ethan hit his head on the metal leg of that metal food service table so hard you could hear the metal ring like a bell. Anyone who has ever worked in a commercial kitchen, or in an anatomic pathology lab, can tell you that those industrial tables are made of very sturdy stuff and you don't want to hit your head against them. The restaurant owner, being an actual responsible adult, called this 14-year-old employee's parents to come pick him up, assuming that they would take him for the appropriate medical care at the emergency room or urgent care center. Did this set of selfish neglectful parents, who let Ethan down every step of the way when he needed psychiatric care or lots of other things, actually take him to get evaluated? I don't think there's any evidence of them taking him anywhere to get checked out after that head injury. He was staggering a bit before he fell, and the parents blamed that on Ethan not having eaten enough food that day. Once again, why didn't these parents make sure their kid had eaten enough food before he went to work at a very physical job? So not only should he have been taken for evaluation and made sure he didn't have a concussion from the fall, they should've also started a work up to find out why he fell in the first place.
I knew that there was a search about how to dispose of a dead dog. I didn't realize until now that Ethan did that search because his idiot parents made him carry his own dead dog outside and told him to figure out how to dispose of the body! He was so attached to that dog, and it was his best friend - especially considering that he only had the one human friend, and even that friend moved away. The death of the dog was traumatic enough. Ethan being the one to find the dog's body was another terrible trauma. But the parents making him dispose of the body goes beyond their usual level of neglect. That was deliberate and severe emotional ABUSE. This expert is also going into much greater detail than I have seen before about the times that Ethan was left alone as a little boy, and how he was reaching out to his one human friend for help, and the details of text messages to the friend and the parents, etc. Just absolutely heartbreaking. I thought that some of these earlier Miller hearings were the worst I was going to watch on this case. But I can tell this is another one that's going to have me in tears repeatedly over the next hour. He is guilty. He needs to be in prison. But it didn't have to be this way. He was a smart and sensitive little boy, terrified because he was alone both emotionally and physically. And then he became an even more mentally and emotionally disordered preteen and teenager. And they never bothered getting him any kind of help. They would just insult him and laugh at him. And then they bought him a gun on top of it all. At least Ethan will now have psychiatric care. But it is too little and too late. Lock those parents up too!
47:50 -- What? There was a time that Ethan **lost consciousness** after a head injury as a younger boy?! This was also not something I had heard in previous testimony. Again, how can the prosecution object to hearing this expert testify about brain injury with respect to this case? There were absolutely instances where he could've had a brain injury, but his parents never bothered to get him checked out after these events. Add several more items to the list of how the parents completely failed this kid, and allowed him to become a murderer.
1:15:00 -- He was hoping they would search his backpack and find the guns so he would be arrested. Just like he was hoping that somebody at school would see his disturbing social media posts and notify a grown-up. It was one of the many ways he was hoping to get psychiatric help because he knew his parents weren't going to get the help for him. He wanted somebody to stop him. He saw himself as a demon, but he wanted somebody to intervene. And those videos at the jail when he was first arrested, that they showed just before this point in the testimony, he was crying and wondering why God didn't stop him either, and why God didn't save the victims. This is a very sick young man. He needs to be in prison for the rest of his life and the crime he committed was horrible. But the adults failed at every step to prevent this: the school by not searching his belongings, and the parents by neglecting him in every possible way from early childhood onwards.
Love the U of M professor yesterday talking about the brain, and then today, Wayne state, professor talking Michigan represents some talent, some education⬅️
His parents need to be punished! For the neglect caused to this child! May he find mercy and somehow be able to experience someone showing him love and compassion!!!
@maryerichardson8302 I don't think anyone is debating whether or not he is mentally ill. The issue is should he, as a 17 year old who did all these things at 15 year old, be sentenced to life without parole. If he had been 22 and committed these horrific brutal murders it would be life without parole no question. The question is since he was a minor, do they think he can be rehabilitated or not
This young man pretty well raised himself. Closed up in a house every day at some stage, on his own, while his parents tended to horses, had their affairs and Lord only knows what else. Their $$$$ went on horse feed, instead of doctors for this young man. Their lives were simply too busy to be bothered with how he was coping. Parole after a set amount of years, with rehab and after care.
There is a difference between being mentally ill and not being criminally responsible. To not be responsible for the crime it would have to be proven that at the time of the crime you didn't know you were doing something wrong, at least in most states. This kid is unwell, but he knew what he was doing was wrong, and thus he is responsible.
Mentally ill does NOT always equal insane! He is mentally ill, for sure, but they’re trying to push that he was and is sane and fit for trial, because of earlier “insanity defense” issues.
I really don’t think mental heath matters at all anymore in US courtrooms. It seems it doesn’t matter it people prove their clients have mental health problems. It used to matter. Many cases In the 60’s 70’s maybe other times. Maybe some felt they couldn’t keep society safe when people get released within a few years of the crime. 🤷🏼♀️
I admire and respect this judge! He is intelligent and kind!! But how about just giving him kudos for being an amazing Judge! Not just an educated black man! Same with the doctor! Kudos for his intelligent mind! No matter their color.
Prosecution and Defense is using this Miller Hearing to prove his parent's should be convicted on the Manslaughter charges. Which I agree with. Life without Parole for EC.
Agreed completely. A lot of other people posting under the videos about this case are upset by testimony about the neglect that Ethan experienced, his parents' failure to seek proper psychiatric care for him, and so forth, because they are misinterpreting it strictly as the defense attorney trying to persuade the court to find Ethan not guilty. But that isn't what is happening at all. Ethan is clearly guilty, and deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. And if you want to make sure there isn't much wiggle room for Ethan to file an appeal, then it is actually in the state's best interest to make sure that Ethan has competent and thorough defense representation. And that includes testimony about how the adolescent brain functions differently from the adult brain, and how someone with a mental illness might have different thought processes from someone without a mental illness. What you understand that most of the other people commenting seem to miss is that the testimony here will ALSO be very useful in the case against the parents. And I think manslaughter is very appropriate for the parents, not only because they didn't get the proper psychiatric care for their child, which could have potentially prevented this outcome, but they even went so far as to **arm him with a deadly weapon** and did not use enough caution in keeping that weapon locked up at home. In addition, this is a perfect case to use as an example for why we should have mandatory safe firearm storage laws in every state of this country.
I think the parents deserve life without parole also. They caused this child to be isolated, and how in the world do we expect to see a different outcome, when everyone around him ignored ALL of his symptoms and signs of something being wrong ( including the school! ). His behaviors changed alot the last year before the incident. This could have been prevented, to a point. We will never truly know. If we could prevent things, my brother would not have ended his life 17 years ago. As much as we were there for him, as much as we helped him, he couldnt bare things mentally anymore, and ended his life unexpectedly……. We really never know what anyone is thinking from one moment to the next!
@@ValorWarrior5258 -- Sorry to hear about your brother. You and your family did what you could to try to help him, which is what normal caring people do. Ethan's parents on the other hand are not normal caring people. I doubt prosecutors would be able to get something like life without parole for the manslaughter charges that the Crumbley parents should be facing. But they definitely deserve extended jail time, and not just the amount of time they've already been in jail, waiting for the various hearings.
@@TakenTookbut what is weird is that the most important evidence imo didn’t make it into his mothers trial. This Miller hearing evidence is way more enlightening. Prosecutions closing statement in his mothers trial focused on stuff like how EC’s bedroom was kept messy. Maybe the defense blocked a lot of evidence that would have been deemed prejudicial, I dunno what happened in that trial. But in my opinion, the evidence in the Miller hearing is strong, and the evidence in his mothers trial was weak, and I’m saying that as someone who believes that she probably deserves to be convicted
I don't know about the effect of his head hits. I had some myself through major physical abuse by my father after being abandoned by my mother at 7. We never received medical care as we were poor and received so many derogatory comments over my development, they are hard to erase. The sexual abuse by an older brother and an overly religious grandmother that had me kneel in the corner on pebbles from the alley.. Constant torment by classmates because of my poor appearance and it never crossed my mind to harm anyone but my father...which I never did nor think I ever could have. It took me years to forgive my father but accompanied him throughout his last days in hospice because I felt no one should die alone. I dunno folks. I would think there would have been more of a defect in his brain, rather than something that can be normalized with medication. I'll leave that to medical professionals.
Shasbuiness who strangled her victim and chopped him up, was also mentally ill and she received life in prison without parole. Ms Vallow who killed her two children is mentally ill and she received life without parole. I believe this defendant should he given life without parole also. He planned this shooting weeks in advance. Premeditated. Not your typical mental case. He thought this out very carefully. Maps and everything.
@@kayemm1973 Juvenile defined by age only. Sorry, but this person pleaded guilty and should be sentenced as an adult for these senseless murders of someone's children.
@@edwardf6229 juvenile as determined by the fact that his brain isn't fully grown yet, it's like expecting a kid to drive a car, their feet don't even touch the pedals, he's not capable of fully understanding the enormity of his actions, and that's without even taking into account the neglect and mental health concerns.
I have major depressive disorder, among other mental illnesses and brain damage from a stroke, yet, like majority of the population, id never consider mass fkn murder!
He was left home isolated with shooting games. That combined with head injury, neglect, lack of care, and multiple losses, burying your own dog, and then he gets a new gun. We were left alone, but we only had Atari pong, pitfall, adventure, and frogged…. Not evil input. Input=output
We were left alone and no TV, no radio just books and bike, ball, some coloring books. No money but plenty imagination. We use to play outside with other kids till get dark. As far it gets dark we come inside to an empty house by yourself the freaking anxiety pickup.😢
This Wayne State doctor is brilliant he’s spot on. This is a child having a medical episode. It could be from the two head blows of one of them. Shame on these parents for not getting him the help he so needed. This could’ve been prevented this poor kid is suffering.
There are WEIRD People who grew up in wonderfully loving stable homes with all kinds of support also. I know one of them(my oldest sibling) Some people are just born that way.
That’s what this case is about the parents dismissed every single psychosis episode he had they could have prevented and got him the medical help he needed those children would still be here.
@bellavita3097 Perhaps you ought to watch the kids trial: Psychiatrist said he has NO Mental Ilness. Like Nikolas Cruz the florida school shooter this guy is a fraud he just belongs in jail that is all. This trial is about guns.
Best defense expert. The statistics really made me rethink how much school overlooked and it ties in with the testimony of school deputy who said she didn't believe it was him who used the gun.
Oh my God he’s having a mental episode and they’re putting him in a straight chair and a mask. That’s horrible. He needs to be in the hospital and treated medically. This is horrible. The whole entire system is failing this boy this could’ve all been prevented if he had medical treatment and this is how they subdue him in jail when he’s going through a medical episode, it’s horrible 100% unacceptable.
Did you happen to read his journal entries or texts or hear about him torturing baby birds to death or writing about this shooting for months ahead of time? This little psycho was bound to kill at some point, the parents just made it easier by buying him the gun. He doesn't deserve any sympathy or remorse, no matter how culpable the parents are!
In the video of him being restrained by the police where he is saying “you didn’t stop it” repeatedly. Clearly no one taught him how to manage anxiety I really hope that the jail was able to provide mental health services in that moment. Minimally He needed medication to calm down.
He’s suffering from a disease called depression, severe depression he’s calling out to God saying god why didn’t you stop it? Why didn’t you stop the voices in his head he’s talking to God this kid was let down severely by his parents. He needed medical help if your child is diabetic, you get them into the doctor. If your child has heart disease, you get him into the doctor. His brain doesn’t work normally. This poor kid Could’ve been saved if his parents would’ve got him into the Dr. for help.
This video is the only emotion I have seen ever of this defendant. Every time the camera is put on him in this hearing that I have seen so far he hasn't shown any emotion or empathy for what he did other than his physcosis episode or did I miss it?
Ethan was begging for this kind of mental health evqluation and treatment but it took 4 dead children and his life spent in jail for him to get it. I am so glad his mother had been held accountable and his father no doubt will be too. I'm amazed to learn his parents not only neglected his mental health but his physical health too. I cant fathom my child blacking out not one, but two times and deliberately making a choice to not get them any medical attention. This kid, and because of his actions, all of the kids at that school were failed by his parents neglect and the school admins failure to act. I really hope at least something is learned here to prevent this someplace else.
His little meltdown seems pretty exaggerated, probably trying to milk the whole insanity or psychosis claims. He knows exactly what he did and should be held accountable. Why do we coddle mass killer??!
If you watch day 6-7 there is a video recording that EC made! He’s actually pretty intelligent I was shocked by some of the things he said. All that said he knew exactly what he was doing. He planned and carried it out. He’s a monster!
I would arguably take that as an act. He had the whole thing planned out, even how he would surrender, etc. I’m sorry but I just don’t find this young man believable.
His only act or manipulation was in that he showed many behaviors at school hoping that the school would get him help. He even hoped that with all the concerns expressed by the teachers over those last 2 days of school that they would have caught on to his plan. I don’t think the school knew he had access to guns. I don’t understand why they didn’t ask him or the parents that question. Laziness? Incompetence?
@@pambrown8535 they did catch on to his plan and he still executed it!!! He was in the office for over 2 hours presented with an opportunity to help and he said nothing!!! They brought his backpack in, he had his chance!!! Sitting back hoping to caught will never be an excuse in my eyes . This boy deserves zero excuses. He was playing everybody around him. He knew exactly what he was doing, what he was writing and the narrative he was trying to paint because he was going to execute that shooting no matter what.
I think this is the very first time I have ever felt any sympathy, empathy, sadness or sickness for a defendant in this kind of situation. Those parents were absolutely neglectful, and just mean to him. They never nurtured, cared or loved their child. He was subjected to neglect, terror, abuse, and punishment his entire life. The many times he mentions to his parents the voices in his head, his pleading for a therapist. Those scenes where they show that child suffering while in the hands of the law, immediately after the shootings, was very hard to watch. Asking God why he didnt stop him. The boy wanted so badly to be found out just so he didnt have to do what he planned, just so he could get the help he so desperately wanted for so long. The trauma and fear of the victims was not lost on me either. No child should ever face death yhe way his cictims faved their own deaths. Rip to the victims. My heart breaks fir everyone EXCEPT HIS SCUMBAG PARENTS !!!!😢
They appealed to the Supreme Court which ruled they will stand trial for manslaughter but I haven't found any scheduled Court appearances for them yet. I believe ethans sentencing is scheduled for December 8th and I assume the parents trial will come after that.
Wouldn’t that fall at work where he hit his head link to possible brain injury?..there for being relevant to this Dr. Mentioning his experience with brain trauma?? Did they research whether defendant had any other history of brain trauma???
Not everyone knows that....look at some of these comments as an example. Mental illness is still stigmatized and not treated with the legitimacy of more physical illnesses.
I know what Ethan did was horrifying. I had a traumatic childhood also. My parents were alcoholics, beat each other. Constantly screamed at each other, threatened to leave, threatened to kill themselves, anything you can think of. I had very few friends growing up, and was bullied all through school. The only differences I didn’t have the influence of violent video games and the Internet. I lost myself in books and developed a deep love of literature. I became determined to make something of myself and went to nursing school, paying for it, and supporting myself by working three part-time jobs in addition to going to school full-time. My heart aches for the broken child that Ethan is. of course I am not excusing what he did. It was wrong, and he knew it was wrong. I’m just not surprised by it. He was failed by everyone, and most of all by his parents.
For something like this he would have been suspended in Italy. The kid was silently screaming for help, and all the adults around him basically ignored his " cry ". And he is the only one paying for this tragedy. Together with his parents. Only a gun control law can stop this. Nothing else. There is no need to own guns for "normal" people. No need.
I as well grew up with drug addictive parents who I’ve witnessed at a very young age do many criminal things and at the age of 16 emancipated myself and chose different. I agree with your comment.
I loved this dude but I gotta say I got these "walking into class with my new Lisa Frank binder" vibes from him at first, then the prosecutor said "I just want to know what's inside that binder," and the rest is history
Blessed be the Lord! Finally this doctor states a very important fact. Ethan's brain is not fully developed! This doesn't justify the crime nor dies it excuse consequences but it does beg the court to taje it into consideration & give the kid an opportunity for parole.
There should be more power/responsibility to report all these types of red flags to be reported to authorities. AND GET HELP. Even a parent is limited to getting help or determining health care for their kids.. Now days a four old can determine if he is transgender! Who is nuts today?
Ok so i watched the mothers trial and immediately was concerned about the school not completing basic safety checks we were taught was required for suicidal/homicidal concerns. It's like drilled into any therapy/social worker s head. They did none. To hear that he had ammo on his desk and the teacher did nothing. The other teachers are expressing serious concerns. As per the counselor testimony, he didn't follow through until the gun drawing. I believe the mom and Ethan (one of the few times I did) that the counselor gave the choice to keep him at school, minimized the incident, joked about the heavy backpack , and really just handed her a therapy pamphlet with not much more. Mom and Ethan both said he joked about the bag being heavy. You know those two aren't colluding. But the counselor minimized that too. Ultimately he failed Ethan too except in my mind he is more culpable because he is a trained professional. Finally to hear Ethan say well they searched the Hispanic kids stuff for suspecting drugs so they have to search mine too is just heartbreaking. It's a perfectly reasonable belief. I hope the school is liable. Also I think Ethan needs to be committed to a mental hospital.
1:24:24 … but he went there for hours and hours at a time because he was at home, not in jail… in jail it’s against the rules and he’s being supervised, he knows that he can get punished if he does that… if he was at home and not in jail, maybe it would have been for hours and hours. I feel like it’s not fair to compare the amount of time spent in one free environment (home) to in a restricted environment (jail)
I don’t know if you can say that’s a sign of progress because it’s now in a controlled environment… there is more controlling him than just his own resistance to do it.
Ethan felt forsure they were going to look in the back pack.??HE SHOULD HAVE JUST TOLD THEM. HE WAS TESTING THE ADULTS. BUT LEFT THAT OFFICE AND WENT AND SHOT UP THE SCHOOL. THE POLICE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED FIRST...COULD HAVE SAVED A LOT OF LIVES THAT DAY. 4 OF THEM FOR SURE.
The slip and fall may urge cause a brain injury that contributed to his mental illness...yes. We won't get to know if there was an injury or to what extent from that particular incident though since his neglectful parents never got him medical treatment.
What I see is a teenager with psychosis who has not been medicated for his disease yet, asking God why He didn't stop the gun or the bullets, and why He didn't save the victims, because Ethan is delusional. Yes, he is guilty of these murders. Yes, he needs to be in prison. But you clearly ignored the testimony of this expert and the ones who came before about how his mental illness played a significant role in this deadly outcome. If his parents had done the right thing, and taken him in for psychiatric care long before that day, those other four kids might still be alive. Had his idiot parents not bought him a gun on top of it all, those four kids would absolutely still be alive
This judge is pretty good, still a very distant second to the judge on the Letecia Stauch trial. However, head & shoulders above the shooter's parents' trials.
Lord, I know he hurt people and took lives he had no right to take. But he’s just a baby. His 15yo mind was possessed and he needed someone to love him and actually see him so he could get help. The people can’t say one moment that he took lives of “children” and not see him also as a child. I know that I will receive hate for this comment because people are so mad that he did what he did and they want him to be punished. But, for one moment, remember when you were his age and tell me that you thought/felt the same as you do today. Yes, I know, you didn’t do what he did. But we can’t just lock them up and throw them away; he needs to have mental healthcare.
I’m so sorry for Ethan and the ones who died. I believe the only guilty ones are the system and his parents. His parents obviously didn’t care for him as I watched the whole parts. People that are commenting hates just shut up, you have no idea how this mentally people are like, the only ones who will understand him is the one that is in his shoes; like me. I say it’s system’s fault the most because right now we are going through the similar situation but the only difference is I and my parents are caring a lot about our sister who has psychosis mixed with schizophrenia. She is 34 and she stopped her meds, it’s been a month we cannot do anything because the hospital thinks she is fine, although she attacks on people and tries to poison my mom and her daughter . She sees and hears thing that makes her control. When we call the cops they are like “ ooh we can’t do anything unless she hurts someone” wtf why can’t you just put her in the fcking hospital, why does the system waits someone to kill or hurt? Anyways.. somehow we made her go to the hospital and she only stayed there for two days and boom she got out with her craziness again, we can’t talk to doctors because they are telling us that she is older so they can’t communicate with us unless she gives permission. My mom took care for her 34 years we all know when she is better but she is not, she has to stay longer term in hospital but no body can hear or listen us. She is at her house God knows when she will do something to someone.. we can’t sleep we can’t do anything! Can you imagine someone going near to her house quietly to check on her thru window every morning and night, my mom does that just because so she won’t hurt her 10 year old daughter and someone else. I’m so overwhelmed with everything, why can’t the hospital send someone at least send someone to check on her because she is danger to others. I don’t understand this system
Although I absolutely believe Eathan needs to receive 4 life sentences, his parents paid no attention to their child..Seems had the idea that they weren't needed in his life now that he is a teen. They are very responsible for neglecting this child, although he was clearly screaming for help and attention!
First.. This prosecutor is extremely well prepared.🇺🇸 His clarity, attention to facts & his persistence for an honest answer from Dr King is amazing. Second.. Where in this world did they find this so-called Dr King????? Thank goodness this prosecutor was patient & determined.🇺🇸✌🏼⭐
Im watching this & i can say that i was driving cars & Trucks & Realized then at age 12 Be Careful as this is Illegal & Parents in Trouble if i Mess up. I never Did so this is bull
They interviewed everybody but his parents for this . What do the parents have to say about how they felt they raised him? Not making excuses but it’s a one sided story.
It’s a bit too much excuse making for me - especially when it came down to that backpack. This whole time he’s just sitting back waiting on someone to read his mind. To say there was a lack of counselors, he ends up in the counselors hours prior, he doesn’t say anything. They ASKED what was in the backpack, he says nothing - but at the same time he was hoping to be caught. Like come onnnnn. This testimony completely tries to relieve him of responsibility + I don’t like that.
That temper tantrum he did was because he didn’t want to be held down, to me he does a lot of acting to get away with what he did, he isn’t crazy he knew exactly what he was doing, he googled everything and using that, I don’t believe he’s mentally unstable just trying to get off w a insanity plea which was already thrown out, he sounds like a kid w bad adhd/ maybe on the Lower spectrum, he never got the attention he needed and discipline, the crying why didn’t god stop save her or whatever he was yelling was trying to get away with it, bet he never got a spanking in his life they need to throw away the keys and never let him out
Then!!! Come to find out, that was a recorded episode from 6+ months later!! I’ve always thought that took place immediately after the arrest. It just looks to me like he thought he was down to spend his life in prison + he’s really that’s not as easy as he tried to make it seem!
Yep that why he was tied up and out in a white bag, thats how it is, complete unethical. It's torture for what he did, its evil but we all know it happens and theres nothing we can do about it, but hope it never happens to us.
He was out of control. It's standard procedure for an inmate to be restrained, including a hood/spit guard, so no one gets hurt. Unpleasant for everyone. Correction officers don't enjoy restraining a prisoner. Ethan has panic attacks, according to his shrink.
I think their are several factors at play. Ouija boards, whether it's a toy or not, is a sign of spiritual warfare imo. Searching for connection with the dead and dealing in the spiritual realm, outside of a connection with our maker opens the door for all things evil to enter. Spiritual warfare can wreak havoc on the mind, Satan's playground. I'm not saying it's the cause of mental illness, but there's a correlation. Ethan clearly had no spiritual leadership in his family. James and Jennifer are clearly fighting their own battles which trickle down to Ethan. Obsessing with violence and video games are a sign to me, that Ethan was overwhelmed with having no control over his life and these things are outlets for his anger and gave him a sense of power. Honestly, I don't think anything in this world will change until people start taking spiritual health seriously.
I admire this judge. I look up to him. Very polite, calme and listens well to all parties.
Agreed 💯
Agree! This judge is one of my favorites… on Court tv..🫣🤦🏻♀️
It’s almost like he deliberately tested the adults in his life the day of the shooting by seeing IF THEY (parents and councilors from hs, admin) WOULD EVEN CARE ENOUGH ABOUT HIM TO CHECK HIS BOOKBAG FOR ANYTHING DANGEROUS…. This really screams out to me…especially as a seasoned teacher 😢
Just so so very heartbreaking and sad all around…
I sadly agree. It certainly appears to be that way
I can cleary see, how Ethan always walked the hallways and did the lunches. Alone. Nobody ever paying attention to him. Seeing him. Noticing him. Talking to him. Saying 'hey' to him. Just the silent kid. Never in any trouble. Never a headache to any teacher. Just invisible. Always his head down, like in court.
Covid. Virtual learning. Grades got worse. Ethan barely made 9th grade. While his grades were always A's and B's.
Starting 10th grade. Ethan sees everybody interacting/laughing/ connecting/ etc and still Ethan is invisible.
Fools his parents, that everything is fine. No worries. Parents think, Ethan is doing better. As a familything, going to the shootingrange, because that is what Ethan likes.
Ethan doesn't tell, that he liked torturing babybirds in May/April. Ethan doesn't tell his parents, that he wants to drown little kids. Ethan doesn't tell, desire to shoot up the school.
Ethan is manipulating his parents, to get the gun.
I really think, after always being ignored in the hallways of the school, by everyone, he finally felt powerfull with his gun.
That teacherlady, who spoke with him, and said: "I couldn't believe it was Ethan", that lady, who knew him from 3rd/4rd grade, snapped Ethan out of it.
Ethan could have killed her. But he didn't. She spoke to Ethan. Snapped him out of his rampage. His 'videogame'. His mind. A friendly voice. Who noticed him. Saw him. Said to him: "Ethan are you okay?". While he was the shooter. And did the horrible things, what he did....
@@belleblaas3843 Your empathy for this killer sure speaks volumes about your state of mind. I bet you would be willing to visit him in jail and have his baby. How pathetic. You should have your own head examined because you need mental health help. Something is not right with you. Sadly far too many people like you here making excuses for a murderer. Clearly the victims mean nothing.
Seeing the father of one of the murdered boys with tears in his eyes. Shocked at what he was watching on the screen seeing just how much pain Ethan was in after the shootings just how seriously his mental illness effected him. Maybe that’s why they made the choice to charge the parents because the victim’s family felt some kind of empathy for a child who needed help asked for help many times without receiving it.. Seeing this could have been prevented.
I had the same reaction because even that he killed his child is as a father watching is heartbreaking to watch and hear him too. Is just like watching the parents were told your child is dead is heartbreaking too. Today his mother got held accountable and guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Now after watching his mother’s trial and going back and watched his now I see the negligence. This doctor explained really good the negligence at home. I pray for all of them.
Ahh man! That judge is married. Good for his wife! What an exceptional human he is. Lucky woman he’s got. Thank you Judge for taking your job seriously and i hope other judges are watching you and taking notes
What a difference between this defense attorney and judge of Ethan compared to Jennifer.
Exactly! And she is court appointed!! I guess it's a good thing JC isn't that intelligent because hiring SS was a bad move.
Omg…..what a difference!
No kidding. I thought Jennifer’s defense attorney was not playing with a full deck or this was her very first case ever. However this defense attorney badgered a witness in part 3 so badly I was yelling “make her stop!!”
@@asdfghjkllkjhgfdsa1022omg her atty was completely non professional, unprepared, ditzy and plain ridiculous
Horrifying upbringing, filled with parental neglect, parental cruelty, as shown when the parents force md EC to dispose of his dog, as well as being told to "suck it up" whenever he expressed pain, stress, feelings of being overwhelmed. In short, his parents gave no fux about EC.
Keep in mind, a lot of textmessages are to his friend. Kids overexaggerate.
I'm still wondering about, what did the friend answer, while Ethan was so enthusiastic about killing babybirds April/May. Did the best friend encourage him? How did the best friend react?
With trials, we didn't get to see, the answers of the best friend. Logic. The kid also probably 15. But were they sharing stories? Biding up to each other? How terrible their lifes were?
My son also 'hated' me, when he was 15. Everything my fault.....
He knew no one would search the backpack bc he knew no one cared or took him seriously. It breaks my heart for everyone involved. Everyone failed this kid and they failed those who were killed. Every adult has failed this kid miserably
But he is also a sociopath which can't be cured with love and attention. He already killed small animals. That is not curable.
Yes, I feel the same way 😢
@@Michele-zn5yi Probably not such a good idea to give a 15 year old sociopath, in crisis, access to a 9mm with ammunition though, right?
I can't imagine struggling with horrendous intrusive thoughts and hoping someone will see my red flags and help me yet person after person fails to act. I imagine at some point you'd feel either that nobody cares so you might as well do it, or that because nobody is acting the universe wants you to do it.
And not only were adults failing to act but he actually says that he believes his parents would be angry if he tried to seek help on his own. This situation was such a powder keg and unfortunately it blew
Yup. The parents are most culpable obviously but even all the school administrators pass the buck like "that wasn't my role to make that decision" to help him. Please.
Dr King is super confident and can back up everything he says. Impressive
Hurts me so much to hear his deep sadness anis agony. God,please help him
Your empathy for this sick murderer is disgusting. I am a lawyer, I worked as a paralegal in New York before moving to Europe. This is how American trials go. THROW THE PARENTS UNDER THE BUS NOW IS THE STANDARD DEFENSE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE FACTS PRESENTED ARE ACCURATE. There is AMPLE evidence from Jennifer Crumbley´s trial that they were a normal American family. In fact more like your own family than you might think. But critical thinking and logical discernment are just not your thing. I can gather a bunch of ¨experts" chosen by me and sit you in a room telling you biased and skewed sob stories and lies for days to convince you of something even if it is completely untrue. YOU @nettialmquist8285 would fall for it 100 percent. That is the problem with cases being decided by ¨jurors¨ that are essentially any moron picked from the streets such as yourself. I have studied international law and I can tell you ONLY AMERICA puts justice in the hands of idiots off the streets. In every other developed country on Earth, juries are made up of Jurists, actual legal experts who are not swayed by emotions and hearsay or biased media like you morons are. Nikolas Cruz the Parkland shooter threw similar fits. This guy just picked it up from the standard playbook. These things are EASILY FAKED. BY the way.
I wish his mom if not both parents would have been able to hear this Drs testimony about Ethan's results so she knew that they were terribly terribly wrong in not getting him help for his mental health. If they would have gotten him help whenever he first started having episodes this wouldn't have gotten to where it did in 2021.
At first, I didnt see the parents being held responsible for manslaughter. I now feel they need to ADD neglect of a minor child to those charges. This child was raised by the internet and the school system, and we all know how horrible the school system is! ( not the teachers , per se, but the system itself! The parents and the school administration failed this child. So sad.
He will spend life in prison, and deservedly so, because he took innocent lives, and that was wrong. Sad, because never really had a chance to realize what real love and security, not to memtion stability is.
I do believe there may be Brain Injury. My brother suffered from TBI, traumatic brain injury, and it totally change his personality, changed his life. He died 17 years ago, by taking his own life, because he couldnt bare not being able to function as a grown man, and he knew he would never have a family, nor anything he dreamed of, because of his disabilities the brain injury caused. Psychotic breaks happen even with TBI.
My brother had support, and love and security, this child had nobody to give him that!
He is one of many children raising themselves…….this is heartbreaking. So many lives lost, and changed, because parents neglect the most important responsibility they have: their child!
😂😂h😅😊t
I don't know where to draw the line. On the one hand, I believe some people are just born evil, on the other, total neglect could cause hatred to overwhelm a weak character. I don't know, my opinion shifts with every witness.
I always said they need to be charged with neglect.
It took me a long time to type this so I'm sharing it everywhere:
My husband called me a softy because I'm having second thoughts regarding Ethan’s punishment. His parents did absolutely nothing to help their son, even when he told them he needed help, that he was hearing voices and having hallucination. Knowing his teachers were concerned with his growing fascination with guns, bullets and shootings, his parents bought a weapon more suited to carry out his mission.
I remember being 15 and the psychical and emotional rollercoaster I was on. Your body is developing in ways you don’t quite understand. Fortunately, most have parental support. Unfortunately, Ethan was born to two self-centered losers. Ethan mentions a friend who is no longer in school. I sense he didn’t have many friends and, sorely lacking in parental guidance, he might have been floundering on how to deal with these changes.
The influx of hormones leads to emotional responses like anxiety, depression or extreme mood swings. One can begin withdrawing, not doing things once enjoyed, isolate from friends and family. Increased testosterone may cause moody behavior, emotional outbursts, and withdrawing into oneself.
Human brains don’t fully mature until 25 or 35 yro. Unmatured adolescent brains can act on impulse, misread or misinterpret social cues and emotions, get into accidents of all kinds, get involved in fights or engage in dangerous or risky behavior. Also, they most likely will act before they think, jump into situations before considering consequences and not realize their actions are dangerous or inappropriate
Taking all this it account, perhaps 25 to life might have been more suitable for Ethan. I don’t know if they acquitted or convicted mom and dad. The penalty for involuntary manslaughter is up to 15 years in prison. They need to do some time and pay restitution to the victim’s families or get hit with a wrongful death suit. I’m finding them as culpable as Ethan. Unless he is a psychopath or sociopath.
?? What are you attempting to say?
I love this Judge
me too. I wish all hearings had judges that operated like him
His parents were probably raised the same way, crummy childhoods, same way they raised Ethan ~ A couple that should've never had children.
Couldn't agree more.
I agree! & the fact that she called Ethan her "oopsie baby" says it all to me...he was never planned, & their concern for him was evident. Very Sad..
Jennifer Crumbley's parents are both teachers. I hope they are not as vile as their daughter.
Dad seemed like a laid back wimp and mom seemed like she never wanted kids.
He needs to be in a hospital, not a jail. That video of him breaking down was just heartbreaking.
He doesn't deserve a shred of sympathy or remorse.
I agree. The system is whacked. Life isn’t black and white like we treat it 😢
His mother and father failed him, the school system failed him and the mental health system failed him! This is a horrendous and terrible situation involving all that failed this boy. It was at if he wasn’t given any attention or taken seriously. I pray that he gets the attention from a qualified therapist. He showed signs that he was disturbed! Why did he spare the life of the woman assistant principal whoever she was that was talking to him after he killed that young man she was trying to save???
Because she wasn't a target. Ethan knew who he was going to shoot. The popular kids.
The assistant principal testified she also was an elementary teacher of his.
He knew her. He also didn’t shoot the girl who aided Phoebe. They also knew each other.
No amount of love and attention can fix a sociopath. He killed small animals.
Nope!
Did he act like that every day, in school, at the store, etc. I doubt it. So where does the acting end and reality begin. I do believe his parents did not take proper care of him.
As i was a "feral child" too i can assure you he knows what he is doing but there is a bubbling anger and rage that goes on inside of him...his brain and maturation is stunted. Even at my age of 50 i still feel like an 8 yr old. He can be rehabbed, but that is impossible in jail, and thats where he should be
Bet that friend and his parents are happy they moved away before this crazy kid killed these people.
At 08:20 in the video - how can the prosecuting attorney claim that there is no evidence that Ethan ever had a brain injury? Are they forgetting the security camera footage from when he was 14 years old and fell and hit his head at the diner where he was working?
You can find the video of that fall online, and it had sound. Ethan hit his head on the metal leg of that metal food service table so hard you could hear the metal ring like a bell. Anyone who has ever worked in a commercial kitchen, or in an anatomic pathology lab, can tell you that those industrial tables are made of very sturdy stuff and you don't want to hit your head against them.
The restaurant owner, being an actual responsible adult, called this 14-year-old employee's parents to come pick him up, assuming that they would take him for the appropriate medical care at the emergency room or urgent care center.
Did this set of selfish neglectful parents, who let Ethan down every step of the way when he needed psychiatric care or lots of other things, actually take him to get evaluated? I don't think there's any evidence of them taking him anywhere to get checked out after that head injury.
He was staggering a bit before he fell, and the parents blamed that on Ethan not having eaten enough food that day. Once again, why didn't these parents make sure their kid had eaten enough food before he went to work at a very physical job?
So not only should he have been taken for evaluation and made sure he didn't have a concussion from the fall, they should've also started a work up to find out why he fell in the first place.
Also childhood neglect is a brain injury
@@Augfordpdoggie-- Absolutely!
I knew that there was a search about how to dispose of a dead dog. I didn't realize until now that Ethan did that search because his idiot parents made him carry his own dead dog outside and told him to figure out how to dispose of the body!
He was so attached to that dog, and it was his best friend - especially considering that he only had the one human friend, and even that friend moved away.
The death of the dog was traumatic enough. Ethan being the one to find the dog's body was another terrible trauma. But the parents making him dispose of the body goes beyond their usual level of neglect. That was deliberate and severe emotional ABUSE.
This expert is also going into much greater detail than I have seen before about the times that Ethan was left alone as a little boy, and how he was reaching out to his one human friend for help, and the details of text messages to the friend and the parents, etc. Just absolutely heartbreaking.
I thought that some of these earlier Miller hearings were the worst I was going to watch on this case. But I can tell this is another one that's going to have me in tears repeatedly over the next hour.
He is guilty. He needs to be in prison. But it didn't have to be this way. He was a smart and sensitive little boy, terrified because he was alone both emotionally and physically. And then he became an even more mentally and emotionally disordered preteen and teenager. And they never bothered getting him any kind of help. They would just insult him and laugh at him. And then they bought him a gun on top of it all.
At least Ethan will now have psychiatric care. But it is too little and too late.
Lock those parents up too!
47:50 -- What? There was a time that Ethan **lost consciousness** after a head injury as a younger boy?! This was also not something I had heard in previous testimony.
Again, how can the prosecution object to hearing this expert testify about brain injury with respect to this case? There were absolutely instances where he could've had a brain injury, but his parents never bothered to get him checked out after these events.
Add several more items to the list of how the parents completely failed this kid, and allowed him to become a murderer.
1:15:00 -- He was hoping they would search his backpack and find the guns so he would be arrested. Just like he was hoping that somebody at school would see his disturbing social media posts and notify a grown-up. It was one of the many ways he was hoping to get psychiatric help because he knew his parents weren't going to get the help for him.
He wanted somebody to stop him. He saw himself as a demon, but he wanted somebody to intervene.
And those videos at the jail when he was first arrested, that they showed just before this point in the testimony, he was crying and wondering why God didn't stop him either, and why God didn't save the victims.
This is a very sick young man. He needs to be in prison for the rest of his life and the crime he committed was horrible.
But the adults failed at every step to prevent this: the school by not searching his belongings, and the parents by neglecting him in every possible way from early childhood onwards.
Love the U of M professor yesterday talking about the brain, and then today, Wayne state, professor talking Michigan represents some talent, some education⬅️
His parents need to be punished! For the neglect caused to this child! May he find mercy and somehow be able to experience someone showing him love and compassion!!!
He doesn't dedeserve love or compassion. Prison life is too comfortable for this little psycho.
So what happens if they let him out eventually and he quits taking meds and he kills again?
Unfortunately that happens every day !! Police n then some get extremely irritated 😢
Race shouldn’t have anything to do with this at all 😢
@@lisabosnak7581 Who said it does?
@@itsjustme7487 when this happens where it looks like something doesn’t add up. I’m assuming something has been erased 🤷🏼♀️. Just for a heads up lol
@@AMYV3 Thanks Amy.
How can these prosecutors not see that Ethan Crumbley is mentally I’ll? Of course he is criminally responsible AND he is mentally I’ll.
@maryerichardson8302 I don't think anyone is debating whether or not he is mentally ill. The issue is should he, as a 17 year old who did all these things at 15 year old, be sentenced to life without parole. If he had been 22 and committed these horrific brutal murders it would be life without parole no question. The question is since he was a minor, do they think he can be rehabilitated or not
This young man pretty well raised himself. Closed up in a house every day at some stage, on his own, while his parents tended to horses, had their affairs and Lord only knows what else. Their $$$$ went on horse feed, instead of doctors for this young man. Their lives were simply too busy to be bothered with how he was coping. Parole after a set amount of years, with rehab and after care.
There is a difference between being mentally ill and not being criminally responsible. To not be responsible for the crime it would have to be proven that at the time of the crime you didn't know you were doing something wrong, at least in most states. This kid is unwell, but he knew what he was doing was wrong, and thus he is responsible.
Mentally ill does NOT always equal insane! He is mentally ill, for sure, but they’re trying to push that he was and is sane and fit for trial, because of earlier “insanity defense” issues.
I really don’t think mental heath matters at all anymore in US courtrooms. It seems it doesn’t matter it people prove their clients have mental health problems. It used to matter. Many cases In the 60’s 70’s maybe other times. Maybe some felt they couldn’t keep society safe when people get released within a few years of the crime. 🤷🏼♀️
Ooh yesss look at those educated black men🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽❤️
Yes I love it
The judge is Bomb
The Dr is a defense Hack
Never miss a chance to bring race into it.
I admire and respect this judge! He is intelligent and kind!! But how about just giving him kudos for being an amazing Judge! Not just an educated black man! Same with the doctor! Kudos for his intelligent mind! No matter their color.
Grow up , silly remark .
Prosecution and Defense is using this Miller Hearing to prove his parent's should be convicted on the Manslaughter charges.
Which I agree with.
Life without Parole for EC.
Agreed completely. A lot of other people posting under the videos about this case are upset by testimony about the neglect that Ethan experienced, his parents' failure to seek proper psychiatric care for him, and so forth, because they are misinterpreting it strictly as the defense attorney trying to persuade the court to find Ethan not guilty.
But that isn't what is happening at all. Ethan is clearly guilty, and deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. And if you want to make sure there isn't much wiggle room for Ethan to file an appeal, then it is actually in the state's best interest to make sure that Ethan has competent and thorough defense representation. And that includes testimony about how the adolescent brain functions differently from the adult brain, and how someone with a mental illness might have different thought processes from someone without a mental illness.
What you understand that most of the other people commenting seem to miss is that the testimony here will ALSO be very useful in the case against the parents.
And I think manslaughter is very appropriate for the parents, not only because they didn't get the proper psychiatric care for their child, which could have potentially prevented this outcome, but they even went so far as to **arm him with a deadly weapon** and did not use enough caution in keeping that weapon locked up at home.
In addition, this is a perfect case to use as an example for why we should have mandatory safe firearm storage laws in every state of this country.
I think the parents deserve life without parole also. They caused this child to be isolated, and how in the world do we expect to see a different outcome, when everyone around him ignored ALL of his symptoms and signs of something being wrong ( including the school! ). His behaviors changed alot the last year before the incident. This could have been prevented, to a point. We will never truly know. If we could prevent things, my brother would not have ended his life 17 years ago. As much as we were there for him, as much as we helped him, he couldnt bare things mentally anymore, and ended his life unexpectedly……. We really never know what anyone is thinking from one moment to the next!
@@ValorWarrior5258 -- Sorry to hear about your brother. You and your family did what you could to try to help him, which is what normal caring people do. Ethan's parents on the other hand are not normal caring people.
I doubt prosecutors would be able to get something like life without parole for the manslaughter charges that the Crumbley parents should be facing. But they definitely deserve extended jail time, and not just the amount of time they've already been in jail, waiting for the various hearings.
And he needs to be in a forensic unit
@@TakenTookbut what is weird is that the most important evidence imo didn’t make it into his mothers trial. This Miller hearing evidence is way more enlightening. Prosecutions closing statement in his mothers trial focused on stuff like how EC’s bedroom was kept messy. Maybe the defense blocked a lot of evidence that would have been deemed prejudicial, I dunno what happened in that trial. But in my opinion, the evidence in the Miller hearing is strong, and the evidence in his mothers trial was weak, and I’m saying that as someone who believes that she probably deserves to be convicted
I don't know about the effect of his head hits.
I had some myself through major physical abuse by my father after being abandoned by my mother at 7. We never received medical care as we were poor and received so many derogatory comments over my development, they are hard to erase. The sexual abuse by an older brother and an overly religious grandmother that had me kneel in the corner on pebbles from the alley.. Constant torment by classmates because of my poor appearance and it never crossed my mind to harm anyone but my father...which I never did nor think I ever could have. It took me years to forgive my father but accompanied him throughout his last days in hospice because I felt no one should die alone. I dunno folks. I would think there would have been more of a defect in his brain, rather than something that can be normalized with medication. I'll leave that to medical professionals.
Wait until the CTE sets in.
@@realone7488 was he, you or are you referring to myself regarding CTE?
Shasbuiness who strangled her victim and chopped him up, was also mentally ill and she received life in prison without parole. Ms Vallow who killed her two children is mentally ill and she received life without parole. I believe this defendant should he given life without parole also. He planned this shooting weeks in advance. Premeditated. Not your typical mental case. He thought this out very carefully. Maps and everything.
Agree 💯
I agree
Slight difference, Ethan was a child with all the limitations that entails.
@@kayemm1973 Juvenile defined by age only. Sorry, but this person pleaded guilty and should be sentenced as an adult for these senseless murders of someone's children.
@@edwardf6229 juvenile as determined by the fact that his brain isn't fully grown yet, it's like expecting a kid to drive a car, their feet don't even touch the pedals, he's not capable of fully understanding the enormity of his actions, and that's without even taking into account the neglect and mental health concerns.
I have major depressive disorder, among other mental illnesses and brain damage from a stroke, yet, like majority of the population, id never consider mass fkn murder!
He was left home isolated with shooting games. That combined with head injury, neglect, lack of care, and multiple losses, burying your own dog, and then he gets a new gun. We were left alone, but we only had Atari pong, pitfall, adventure, and frogged…. Not evil input. Input=output
We were left alone and no TV, no radio just books and bike, ball, some coloring books. No money but plenty imagination. We use to play outside with other kids till get dark.
As far it gets dark we come inside to an empty house by yourself the freaking anxiety pickup.😢
This Wayne State doctor is brilliant he’s spot on. This is a child having a medical episode. It could be from the two head blows of one of them. Shame on these parents for not getting him the help he so needed. This could’ve been prevented this poor kid is suffering.
There are WEIRD People who grew up in wonderfully loving stable homes with all kinds of support also. I know one of them(my oldest sibling) Some people are just born that way.
His suffering what about the people he shot and the people he killed and their families…
That’s what this case is about the parents dismissed every single psychosis episode he had they could have prevented and got him the medical help he needed those children would still be here.
@bellavita3097 Perhaps you ought to watch the kids trial: Psychiatrist said he has NO Mental Ilness. Like Nikolas Cruz the florida school shooter this guy is a fraud he just belongs in jail that is all. This trial is about guns.
Best defense expert. The statistics really made me rethink how much school overlooked and it ties in with the testimony of school deputy who said she didn't believe it was him who used the gun.
Oh my God he’s having a mental episode and they’re putting him in a straight chair and a mask. That’s horrible. He needs to be in the hospital and treated medically. This is horrible. The whole entire system is failing this boy this could’ve all been prevented if he had medical treatment and this is how they subdue him in jail when he’s going through a medical episode, it’s horrible 100% unacceptable.
Don’t feel too sorry for him
Did you happen to read his journal entries or texts or hear about him torturing baby birds to death or writing about this shooting for months ahead of time? This little psycho was bound to kill at some point, the parents just made it easier by buying him the gun. He doesn't deserve any sympathy or remorse, no matter how culpable the parents are!
In the video of him being restrained by the police where he is saying “you didn’t stop it” repeatedly. Clearly no one taught him how to manage anxiety I really hope that the jail was able to provide mental health services in that moment. Minimally He needed medication to calm down.
He’s suffering from a disease called depression, severe depression he’s calling out to God saying god why didn’t you stop it? Why didn’t you stop the voices in his head he’s talking to God this kid was let down severely by his parents. He needed medical help if your child is diabetic, you get them into the doctor. If your child has heart disease, you get him into the doctor. His brain doesn’t work normally. This poor kid Could’ve been saved if his parents would’ve got him into the Dr. for help.
agree i think he’s possessed from that Ouija board mom provided smh.
When was the freakout filmed?
This video is the only emotion I have seen ever of this defendant. Every time the camera is put on him in this hearing that I have seen so far he hasn't shown any emotion or empathy for what he did other than his physcosis episode or did I miss it?
He did cry during Mrs Gibson-Marshalls testimony. The assistant principal.
That’s how they want you to see him.. I’ve seen many videos showing emotion and empathy.. He was (is a child) who needs help not jail !!
Ethan was begging for this kind of mental health evqluation and treatment but it took 4 dead children and his life spent in jail for him to get it. I am so glad his mother had been held accountable and his father no doubt will be too.
I'm amazed to learn his parents not only neglected his mental health but his physical health too. I cant fathom my child blacking out not one, but two times and deliberately making a choice to not get them any medical attention. This kid, and because of his actions, all of the kids at that school were failed by his parents neglect and the school admins failure to act. I really hope at least something is learned here to prevent this someplace else.
His little meltdown seems pretty exaggerated, probably trying to milk the whole insanity or psychosis claims. He knows exactly what he did and should be held accountable. Why do we coddle mass killer??!
If you watch day 6-7 there is a video recording that EC made!
He’s actually pretty intelligent I was shocked by some of the things he said. All that said he knew exactly what he was doing. He planned and carried it out.
He’s a monster!
@@meganbaldwin1699agree
He’s also a coward. Big man with a gun but his other fantasies relate to baby birds, children & women
He’s also a coward. Big man with a gun but his other fantasies relate to baby birds, children & women
what meds was he on ?
47:02 the judge is like “hold it right there sir” 😂 🍳
Heartbreaking
but, I don’t think it’s a fair defense to say that someone is less guilty for committing murder because other people didn’t stop them
True we could dig in anyone’s life and find trauma. Myself included except I literally can’t kill a fly… It’s not an excuse either.
Volume...can't hardly hear
This is gut wrenching to watch
What sticks out to me is the birds 😢 and him saying mommy when can I get out and when will you be home IN 2016!!!!!. Shame on you!!!
"God why didn't you stop it?" Is that psychosis or him continuing to put the blame on something besides himself?
His psychiatrist did not diagnose him with psychosis.
@@sansserif8839 I was referencing the witness saying he was having a "psychotic episode" while he was screaming that.
I would arguably take that as an act. He had the whole thing planned out, even how he would surrender, etc. I’m sorry but I just don’t find this young man believable.
His only act or manipulation was in that he showed many behaviors at school hoping that the school would get him help. He even hoped that with all the concerns expressed by the teachers over those last 2 days of school that they would have caught on to his plan. I don’t think the school knew he had access to guns. I don’t understand why they didn’t ask him or the parents that question. Laziness? Incompetence?
@@pambrown8535 they did catch on to his plan and he still executed it!!! He was in the office for over 2 hours presented with an opportunity to help and he said nothing!!! They brought his backpack in, he had his chance!!! Sitting back hoping to caught will never be an excuse in my eyes . This boy deserves zero excuses. He was playing everybody around him. He knew exactly what he was doing, what he was writing and the narrative he was trying to paint because he was going to execute that shooting no matter what.
I think this is the very first time I have ever felt any sympathy, empathy, sadness or sickness for a defendant in this kind of situation.
Those parents were absolutely neglectful, and just mean to him. They never nurtured, cared or loved their child. He was subjected to neglect, terror, abuse, and punishment his entire life.
The many times he mentions to his parents the voices in his head, his pleading for a therapist.
Those scenes where they show that child suffering while in the hands of the law, immediately after the shootings, was very hard to watch. Asking God why he didnt stop him.
The boy wanted so badly to be found out just so he didnt have to do what he planned, just so he could get the help he so desperately wanted for so long.
The trauma and fear of the victims was not lost on me either. No child should ever face death yhe way his cictims faved their own deaths. Rip to the victims.
My heart breaks fir everyone EXCEPT HIS SCUMBAG PARENTS !!!!😢
When will the court transition to digital documents ?
Very interesting Doctor and well spoken...He definitely knows his career and identify This child who was clearly neglected.
Anyone able to give me any info on the trial of the parents?
Has that been already? Ifso what was the verdict?
Or still waiting?
They appealed to the Supreme Court which ruled they will stand trial for manslaughter but I haven't found any scheduled Court appearances for them yet. I believe ethans sentencing is scheduled for December 8th and I assume the parents trial will come after that.
@@DeedeesJourney thank you
The mother's trial is going on now (as of 2/1/204) and the father's trial is in early March. (It's not going very well for Mom, btw.)
@@ruthcassidy6052 thank you so much for the update
The jury is deliberating now in the mom’s case. This is their second day of deliberations.
Wouldn’t that fall at work where he hit his head link to possible brain injury?..there for being relevant to this Dr. Mentioning his experience with brain trauma?? Did they research whether defendant had any other history of brain trauma???
Let’s not forget Mom provided an Ouija board… my kids know don’t you dare touch those.
🤔 1:04:17 is this expert witness really gonna say “Mental illness is real” ? I hate that phrase 🤦🏻♀️. Of course it’s real, we already know that.
Not everyone knows that....look at some of these comments as an example. Mental illness is still stigmatized and not treated with the legitimacy of more physical illnesses.
Omg. I couldn’t stand the videos. I couldn’t stop crying 😢
I know what Ethan did was horrifying. I had a traumatic childhood also. My parents were alcoholics, beat each other. Constantly screamed at each other, threatened to leave, threatened to kill themselves, anything you can think of. I had very few friends growing up, and was bullied all through school. The only differences I didn’t have the influence of violent video games and the Internet. I lost myself in books and developed a deep love of literature. I became determined to make something of myself and went to nursing school, paying for it, and supporting myself by working three part-time jobs in addition to going to school full-time.
My heart aches for the broken child that Ethan is. of course I am not excusing what he did. It was wrong, and he knew it was wrong. I’m just not surprised by it. He was failed by everyone, and most of all by his parents.
What was the strategy here? Blame the parents? I wonder what contact EC had with his parents. So so sad all round.
For something like this he would have been suspended in Italy. The kid was silently screaming for help, and all the adults around him basically ignored his " cry ". And he is the only one paying for this tragedy. Together with his parents. Only a gun control law can stop this. Nothing else. There is no need to own guns for "normal" people. No need.
He's broken, and you can't fix him...😵💫
We cant completely blame others for our behaviors and actions. If that is the case, i should be a criminal. That is all i was shown growing up
I as well grew up with drug addictive parents who I’ve witnessed at a very young age do many criminal things and at the age of 16 emancipated myself and chose different. I agree with your comment.
Hot judge in the court room
I loved this dude but I gotta say I got these "walking into class with my new Lisa Frank binder" vibes from him at first, then the prosecutor said "I just want to know what's inside that binder," and the rest is history
Short definition of implicit bias: making an assumption based on first impression.
Insane Asylum.
Fabulous explanation of mental health
Blessed be the Lord! Finally this doctor states a very important fact. Ethan's brain is not fully developed! This doesn't justify the crime nor dies it excuse consequences but it does beg the court to taje it into consideration & give the kid an opportunity for parole.
WHAT!!!!??????
THIS IS HIS CONCLUSION ONLY
Typically courts have microphones for all important people 😢
There should be more power/responsibility to report all these types of red flags to be reported to authorities. AND GET HELP. Even a parent is limited to getting help or determining health care for their kids.. Now days a four old can determine if he is transgender! Who is nuts today?
Ok so i watched the mothers trial and immediately was concerned about the school not completing basic safety checks we were taught was required for suicidal/homicidal concerns. It's like drilled into any therapy/social worker s head. They did none. To hear that he had ammo on his desk and the teacher did nothing. The other teachers are expressing serious concerns. As per the counselor testimony, he didn't follow through until the gun drawing. I believe the mom and Ethan (one of the few times I did) that the counselor gave the choice to keep him at school, minimized the incident, joked about the heavy backpack , and really just handed her a therapy pamphlet with not much more. Mom and Ethan both said he joked about the bag being heavy. You know those two aren't colluding. But the counselor minimized that too. Ultimately he failed Ethan too except in my mind he is more culpable because he is a trained professional. Finally to hear Ethan say well they searched the Hispanic kids stuff for suspecting drugs so they have to search mine too is just heartbreaking. It's a perfectly reasonable belief. I hope the school is liable. Also I think Ethan needs to be committed to a mental hospital.
If you are so.concerned.with.kids why don't you dedicate your time with kids in schools
Ethan can't be violent due to the fact that he's restrained. Many different points of restraints, keep him from being violent.
1:24:24 … but he went there for hours and hours at a time because he was at home, not in jail… in jail it’s against the rules and he’s being supervised, he knows that he can get punished if he does that… if he was at home and not in jail, maybe it would have been for hours and hours. I feel like it’s not fair to compare the amount of time spent in one free environment (home) to in a restricted environment (jail)
I don’t know if you can say that’s a sign of progress because it’s now in a controlled environment… there is more controlling him than just his own resistance to do it.
His head is up today
Strange how it started as soon as the defense brought in the first witness. 🤔 I may be totally off but might be a silent cry for help.
Ethan felt forsure they were going to look in the back pack.??HE SHOULD HAVE JUST TOLD THEM. HE WAS TESTING THE ADULTS. BUT LEFT THAT OFFICE AND WENT AND SHOT UP THE SCHOOL. THE POLICE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED FIRST...COULD HAVE SAVED A LOT OF LIVES THAT DAY. 4 OF THEM FOR SURE.
Quit making excuses for him
Baby birds… it goes on and on starting in 2021 so it was either a head injury, the Ouija board, or puberty.
A slip and fall turned him into a mass shooter 🙄🙄
The slip and fall may urge cause a brain injury that contributed to his mental illness...yes. We won't get to know if there was an injury or to what extent from that particular incident though since his neglectful parents never got him medical treatment.
1:06:38 Right where this worm belongs. Forever.
What I see is a teenager with psychosis who has not been medicated for his disease yet, asking God why He didn't stop the gun or the bullets, and why He didn't save the victims, because Ethan is delusional. Yes, he is guilty of these murders. Yes, he needs to be in prison. But you clearly ignored the testimony of this expert and the ones who came before about how his mental illness played a significant role in this deadly outcome.
If his parents had done the right thing, and taken him in for psychiatric care long before that day, those other four kids might still be alive.
Had his idiot parents not bought him a gun on top of it all, those four kids would absolutely still be alive
This judge is pretty good, still a very distant second to the judge on the Letecia Stauch trial. However, head & shoulders above the shooter's parents' trials.
Lord, I know he hurt people and took lives he had no right to take. But he’s just a baby. His 15yo mind was possessed and he needed someone to love him and actually see him so he could get help.
The people can’t say one moment that he took lives of “children” and not see him also as a child.
I know that I will receive hate for this comment because people are so mad that he did what he did and they want him to be punished. But, for one moment, remember when you were his age and tell me that you thought/felt the same as you do today. Yes, I know, you didn’t do what he did. But we can’t just lock them up and throw them away; he needs to have mental healthcare.
I’m so sorry for Ethan and the ones who died. I believe the only guilty ones are the system and his parents. His parents obviously didn’t care for him as I watched the whole parts. People that are commenting hates just shut up, you have no idea how this mentally people are like, the only ones who will understand him is the one that is in his shoes; like me.
I say it’s system’s fault the most because right now we are going through the similar situation but the only difference is I and my parents are caring a lot about our sister who has psychosis mixed with schizophrenia. She is 34 and she stopped her meds, it’s been a month we cannot do anything because the hospital thinks she is fine, although she attacks on people and tries to poison my mom and her daughter . She sees and hears thing that makes her control.
When we call the cops they are like “ ooh we can’t do anything unless she hurts someone” wtf why can’t you just put her in the fcking hospital, why does the system waits someone to kill or hurt? Anyways.. somehow we made her go to the hospital and she only stayed there for two days and boom she got out with her craziness again, we can’t talk to doctors because they are telling us that she is older so they can’t communicate with us unless she gives permission. My mom took care for her 34 years we all know when she is better but she is not, she has to stay longer term in hospital but no body can hear or listen us. She is at her house God knows when she will do something to someone.. we can’t sleep we can’t do anything! Can you imagine someone going near to her house quietly to check on her thru window every morning and night, my mom does that just because so she won’t hurt her 10 year old daughter and someone else.
I’m so overwhelmed with everything, why can’t the hospital send someone at least send someone to check on her because she is danger to others.
I don’t understand this system
I don't know how lawyers can defend people that hurt others.
Hearing voices? This child is not well. He does not belong in prison for life. Within the right surroundings he can reabilitate.
He claims to hear voices. But he did a lot of research on mental illness symptoms, too.
I think his Dad is suffering from whatever he is
Best witness on the stand for the prosecutions side 🤷🏼♀️🫶🏼. So sad tho, my dear God, this is just a peak into the future of kids raised by GTA 🙈👀
Although I absolutely believe Eathan needs to receive 4 life sentences, his parents paid no attention to their child..Seems had the idea that they weren't needed in his life now that he is a teen. They are very responsible for neglecting this child, although he was clearly screaming for help and attention!
Not a Child at 14
First.. This prosecutor is extremely well prepared.🇺🇸
His clarity, attention to facts & his persistence for an honest answer from Dr King is amazing.
Second.. Where in this world did they find this so-called Dr King????? Thank goodness this prosecutor was patient & determined.🇺🇸✌🏼⭐
I also found this Dr witness to be strange.
Im watching this & i can say that i was driving cars & Trucks & Realized then at age 12
Be Careful as this is Illegal & Parents in Trouble if i Mess up.
I never Did so this is bull
1:11:28 🤔
They interviewed everybody but his parents for this . What do the parents have to say about how they felt they raised him? Not making excuses but it’s a one sided story.
I don't think they A) wanted to testify and B) were allowed to because of their own trials. As in, their counsel probably advised against it.
If you want moms side, go watch her trial. She was just convicted of manslaughter. Dads trial is coming up soon so you can get his side then.
@@desirae3455 I watched her trial. I was saying their side for the sake of this miller hearing, not just for the sake of my own knowledge .
It’s a bit too much excuse making for me - especially when it came down to that backpack. This whole time he’s just sitting back waiting on someone to read his mind. To say there was a lack of counselors, he ends up in the counselors hours prior, he doesn’t say anything. They ASKED what was in the backpack, he says nothing - but at the same time he was hoping to be caught. Like come onnnnn. This testimony completely tries to relieve him of responsibility + I don’t like that.
That temper tantrum he did was because he didn’t want to be held down, to me he does a lot of acting to get away with what he did, he isn’t crazy he knew exactly what he was doing, he googled everything and using that, I don’t believe he’s mentally unstable just trying to get off w a insanity plea which was already thrown out, he sounds like a kid w bad adhd/ maybe on the Lower spectrum, he never got the attention he needed and discipline, the crying why didn’t god stop save her or whatever he was yelling was trying to get away with it, bet he never got a spanking in his life they need to throw away the keys and never let him out
Thank you. I’m not buying this.
Then!!! Come to find out, that was a recorded episode from 6+ months later!! I’ve always thought that took place immediately after the arrest. It just looks to me like he thought he was down to spend his life in prison + he’s really that’s not as easy as he tried to make it seem!
Yep that why he was tied up and out in a white bag, thats how it is, complete unethical. It's torture for what he did, its evil but we all know it happens and theres nothing we can do about it, but hope it never happens to us.
He needs to cooperate and not lash out and spit on people.
Acting out behavior that’s what we watched. God will be his final judgement.
The polices treatment of this boy is horrendous! They bound him up in a wheel chair and put bag over his entire body!!😢😢
😢that child needs to be in hospital not jail 😢
That's far nicer treatment than he deserves...
He was out of control. It's standard procedure for an inmate to be restrained, including a hood/spit guard, so no one gets hurt. Unpleasant for everyone. Correction officers don't enjoy restraining a prisoner. Ethan has panic attacks, according to his shrink.
Have you ever had to deal with a person in the midst of psychosis? Its for Ethan's safety as well as theirs.
I think their are several factors at play. Ouija boards, whether it's a toy or not, is a sign of spiritual warfare imo. Searching for connection with the dead and dealing in the spiritual realm, outside of a connection with our maker opens the door for all things evil to enter. Spiritual warfare can wreak havoc on the mind, Satan's playground. I'm not saying it's the cause of mental illness, but there's a correlation. Ethan clearly had no spiritual leadership in his family. James and Jennifer are clearly fighting their own battles which trickle down to Ethan. Obsessing with violence and video games are a sign to me, that Ethan was overwhelmed with having no control over his life and these things are outlets for his anger and gave him a sense of power. Honestly, I don't think anything in this world will change until people start taking spiritual health seriously.
I 100% this is when the demons came in and took him over.
And to think every chat I've been in everyone said he had no mental problems.
Evil Kid thats it thats all folks
Race baitor