Creality PEI sheet vs Carborundum glass vs Soft magnetic self-adhesive platform
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Let's compare Creality 3D printing bed surfaces, which one has the best adhesion to the first layer? PEI Sheet or Carborundum glass or Soft magnetic self-adhesive platform? Soft magnetic self-adhesive platform arrives with Ender-3 Pro or Ender-5 Pro printers. Carborundum glass arrives with most popular printer in this year: Ender-3 V2. PEI sheet is accessory for Creality printers, but this surface is standard option for 3D printers like Prusa or Voron.
Equipment used in the video (affiliate links):
Creality PEI Sheet: www.banggood.com/custlink/3GK...
Ender-3 V2: www.banggood.com/custlink/GGv...
Ender-5 Pro: www.banggood.com/custlink/3D3...
Sunlu filament dryer: www.banggood.com/SUNLU-FilaDr...
Mentioned in the video, installing PEI Sheet (Kywoo Tycoon):
• Kywoo Tycoon 3D printe...
Contents:
0:00 Introduction
4:07 PLA on Carborundum glass
5:25 PLA on Soft magnetic self-adhesive platform
8:13 Unboxing PEI Sheet
9:35 Installing PEI Sheet
11:22 PLA on PEI Sheet
12:35 PETG on PEI Sheet
14:09 PETG on Carborundum glass
15:37 Conclusions
#peisheet #creality #carborundumglass - Věda a technologie
Your videos have been very, very helpful! Got the ebox lite dryer because of you and looking at these plates next. Thanks so much again.
I'm one of the few people who prefers the flexible magnetic sheets. I really like the texture it leaves on the first layer.
I used to have adhesion problems until I started wiping it with isopropyl alcohol after every few prints. Since I started doing that, I've never needed to use anything else to make a print stick.
It does seem to be a little more sensitive to the z-offset than other print bed types, though.
Useful experience. Thx.
Sorry for the late reply. I also prefer the flexible sheets. Strange enough I had no problem with adhesion from the start on with my Ender 5. Later on I used a short spray with 3DLac, and I can print several prints without renewing. After some use it's best to clean up with some simple lukewarm water with a very small drop of dish soap. After drying and a short spray with 3DLac you are ready to go again.
I had 3 glasses (2 cerality, one ther brand). They was ok, but if i printed bigger thins with ASA filament I couldn't detach from the glass and glass got damaged. Once the printout itself shrank during cooling down and broke off a piece of glass. Now I use only PEI without any problems. When printing TPU I use hairspray with vitamin A to reduce adhesion
this helped a lot sir, thank you!
recomendation for all surfaces dont release when hot, pei may form boubles and carborandum will degrade if remove hot, also dont use IPA neutral soap and water gives amazing adhesion on carborundum
I agree with you, to remove objects when bed cool down. For this experiment I had to do this way, because during printing bed is hot (what I tried to measure)
The best video on CZcams about this subject. And with evidence :)
Great video! quite informative as always!
But I have a 3D printing unrelated question, what is the name of the music that comes up with the PLA on PEI sheet section?
In the description of the PEI base is mentioned it is also intended for printing ABS (I have my doubts..) did you try to print ABS material on the PEI base?
with a rough print surface like the pei or buildtak its much nicer to use a microfiber cloth to wipe it with IPA as with papertowels you´ll often have liitle bits of it sticking to the buildplate. As you´re not removing any real dirt ( just a bit of residue and oils) you can use that cloth for weeks, before you have to wash it, very convenient.
I use my mini vacuum to pick up the little bits. I will try a microfiber cloth. TY
Definitely go with a lint free cloth on any surface, as even the smoothest surface wil get bits of paper from paper based sheets., but be careful with Microfibre as a lot cause static build up and this can affect print quality and adhesion
I like the fan cover on the ender 3 v2. Do you have an STL for that that I can use?
I use a Ender 3 S1 it came with the magnetic pad glued to the heated bed pre installed. I also hate that magnetic shit that comes stock on Ender 3 S1 mine was adequate for about 5 prints then no adhesion. I now use and creality carborundum glass bed on top. Fantastic adhesion But you have to be careful removing the glass bed as it creates a vacuum seal with the magnetic bed. Thanks for the video I’m really looking forward to trying PEI magnetic flexible bed your video convince me to give it a shot.
Didn't look like a fair z-offset for the flexible ender sheet. I use that surface all the time and haven't had a print like that detach so easily. I believe this happens when the Z-homing probe registers the top of a bump but the plastic really needs to be squished down into the valleys of the texture.
I agree, similar on my Prusa textured vs smooth sheet. Only for comparison I used the same z-offset. But you got the point
Just got one of these flexible print beds for my cr-10s and the middle print bed is sagging making it unable to print without a raft any idea on what to do?
@@drewcarll5431 I'd recommended some sort of auto-bed-leveling system for a warped bed. You could also do assisted manual mesh leveling, but that gets tedious very quickly.
@@RubixB0y I saw some recommendations for a wedge but it also said that I want to be careful on where to put it so I don't destroy the sensor which I have no clue where it is.
@@drewcarll5431 You've lost me, I've never heard of anything like a wedge(unless you mean a shim) fixing a warped bed or what sensor your referring to. If you just mean to use shims under the bed, then that might help by raising up the low spots. I've noticed my bed topology changes with temperature, so ABL was the way to go.
i think u need to maybe redo that test with just clean the bed really good with soap and water
For anyone interested in products for adhesion; a company called vision miner makes an adhesive that works extremely well. it's expensive for a full size bottle, but you can get a sample size for $5 which should last plenty of time. SO worth it in my opinion
I stopped trying to lift the parts off my carborundum textured glass using the spatula, I now hit it with a plastic rod (then spend 10 minutes trying to find it on the floor). Big parts are really hard if I don’t wait for it to cool down. I use a glue stick more and more to get consistency on small are objects.
Since I installed the manual bed levelling software on my ender 3v2 I stopped worrying about where on the glass to print, my carborundum textured glass isn’t perfectly flat. Tricky to deal with sometimes.
That's why I moved to a flexible build surface from wham bam. The glass works great though... I've had to use some glue stick on it just so it would release a little easier/sooner.
This is an interesting test.
I never use any addtional bed adhesive. I find on my Ender 5, on Glass PEI or the supplied flexible surface, that adhesion is not an issue as long as temperature and z-offset is dialled in properly, but I know some people do have issues with adhesion where glue stick or hair spray or similar works pretty well. I mainly print PLA and PETG so it may vary with ABS or others.
I usually find that relevelling the bed is definitely needed every time you change bed surface, otherwise you end up with spaghetti. I've not had the issues you had with adhesion to the stock flexi build surface
your z-offset is too high for the flexible. try leveling by hand. chep has a nice g-code that you can use. once you know how to do it you get great results from flexible plates.
I used to print on 0,8mm carbon fiber board. It was pretty good wrom what I remember. At least as good as PEI.
In my experience the PEI print bed is not as great and I usually need to print with a raft.
Don´t forget the weight of the glass is also important, Glas is much thicker and heavier thus reducing print speed further if you use a I3 style system, but those are shitty anyway.
Hi Igor, have you used the Creality PEI bed sheet any further? How did you like the first layer finish that it gives? I have just installed mine and I'm missing my glass (carborundum, Ender 3 V2) finish, on both sides.
My favourite is powder coated PEI sheet, gives nice textured bottom surface (but I don't have it on Ender, only on Prusa printer)
Pls note the following:
E3V2 stock glass is not available as a replacement. The replacement version has the same finish as the E5 (more matt) Hairspray coating sorts that out and then behaves just like stock glass. Let it cool down first before removing (PETG)
Furthermore, on stock glass, no additives required for PETG, just clean and print. On the replacement version, a coat of hairspray between prints is just perfect. magnetic sheet. A wiping of sugar water is perfect for PETG. Keeps sheet clean and part pops off when cool easier than without sugar water.
The Ender 5 glass bed can be used upside down if you want smooth glass. The texture is only on one side, like the Creality PEI build sheets. Adhesion is a little more tricky on the smooth side, but get it clean and use a little adhesive and you will get mirror smooth bottoms on your prints. The Ender 3 V2 glass, if I recall, is also smooth on the reverse side.
After many failed adhesion attempts, the best thing that's worked for me is a GizmoDorks Boro Glass with a 3m PEI sheet that i sanded with a 600 grit sandpaper. It was expensive ($40) , but worth it in the amount of plastic it has saved me. One thing I like about it, rather than those magnetic steel sheets that come with the PEI , is that the PEI is much thicker and I don't have to worry about damaging it when removing parts.
Thank you for the videos! I know that it is hard work.. How often do you manually set the z height if you have a cr touch on ender 3v2.? Do you have a Check list that you can give me to use before every print? Do you manually adjust the z offset every print? Thank you. I'm sorry for so many questions.. Again thank you for all your hard work. Peace
No need to adjust z offset every time, only when you install the cr touch (or replace the nozzle and similar). PEI every time cleaning with IPA
@@MyTechFun IPA's are tastier than lagers.
the way you can see the 3 lines on the skirt means for me your z-offset is too high. compare with the skirt on the golden PEI, you cant see a gap between the 3 perimeters ;)
Z-offset was equal, but yes, probably these surfaces need different settings. Only for comparison I used same values.
Anyone tried 3mm sanded polycarbonate sheet? I am using it for a month now and I really forgot I had bed adhesion problems. Almost all the filaments stick to it very well. More sanding means more easy to remove. But the catch is, the printed object should be removed when the bed is still hot. I use hair dryer if it sticks too hard. Lowering the bed temp also helps to get the part easily in cases like PETG. You can also flex the sheet to remove bigger parts. Another advantage is, if you got power outage, the part sits on the bed rigidly even when the bed is fully cooled and can continue to print again when the power is back.
The best part is, ABS filament sticks to this surface the best than any other filaments. This sheet itself is pretty cheap (about $1/ sq.ft) and you can buy it from your local hardware store.
I see you're using satsana fan duct. Is satsana provide symetric airflow?🤔
Just because , the right blow tunnel has shorter way , and thats why I thinking about it has asymetric air flow to the nozzle(compare right and left blower)
I didn't measure it, but approx visually, according to "water test" it's 40-60%
When my Ender 3 V2 bed cools down the object just pop off. Using no adhesive product. Clean bed with isopropyl alcohol from time to time.
I want to replace the build surface with PEI Spring Steel but I'm still confused about choosing the PEI smooth or textured one for printing ABS and PLA. do you have any recommendations for me?
Smooth, has better adhesion. Textured better for PETG.
You missed the best one of all, powder coated PEI, works better than all three, all you need to do is prepare the surface with a green chux scrub and some warm soapy water, then dry with a paper towel and it will work like a charm, they are so good, I apply Magigoo or similar as a release agent due to the part sticking down to good. Advice: Do Not Use IPA to clean your build surface, use warm soapy water and rinse properly, IPA will leave some residue, dishwashing liquid will remove all oils.
So you tested the magnetic bed on the aluminum plate? Because when the part gets bigger, the print head will easily cause the bed to lift and flex at the base of the part as it slightly pushes the part side to side. If magnetic beds were that bad, they would have bankrupted Creality when they used it for Ender3pro.
Hmm.. That's probably a good explanation of what was happening. That magnetic bed works perfectly on my Ender 5, so I was surprised to see those failures. The magnetic bed is simply not stiff enough to mount with clips on a non-magnetic surface.
I’m wondering if anyone can give me some advice. Bear with me: I bought an ender 3 S1 pro, it comes stock with a magnetic bed with a spring steel PEI sheet. The actual bed is warped, so I took off the spring steel and put a creality glass bed from Amazon on top. Held it in place with clips, but now just basically sticks to the magnetic sheet, although I can separate the two if needed. The issue is the glass actually holds on a little too well, difficult to get some parts off sometimes. Would actually like to put ANOTHER magnetic sheet on top of the glass and add spring steel on top of the glass. So my question is, is my build plate starting to get too heavy for my stepper motors? The sandwich is now: original aluminum plate with magnetic film, then glass bed, then additional magnetic film, then spring steel PEI. Thanks for your help!
I love the Creality glass bed. The surface is designed so that if you let it cool down to less than 30 degrees Celsius it will "let go" of the print and requires no force to remove objects, even large ones.
I noticed, that Creality carborundum glass is different form order to order. At home I have one (presented in video) with very good adhesion (sometimes too good). But on my workplace we bought a new E3V2 and it arrived with more grey color glass, with very poor adhesion.
I have the same darker glass that Tech Fun has, and i hate it. It does not even want to release the object below 20°C. I had to trash a good PETG print because it stuck so bad to the glass that it deformed rather than releasing from the glass. My friend said that you should hear a click and its done, i never had such experience with it. Every single print i had, stuck soo bad to it that i had to freeze the glass/object or use hard force to remove it.
Isn't that soft flexible surface a magnetic bottom? Then how is it fair to put that on an aluminum bed held by only the edges?
Please make an update after many hours of printing on those surfaces.
I can already write, that my smooth PEI sheet on Prusa works fine almost 3 years now. Only once I reactivated the surface with acetone. Of course this is different PEI sheet, I will see if it will perform similarly
I just bought the magnetic sheet that has a measuring grid on it, I couldn't imagine using glass as my original mat sucks I could hook a tow chain on both ends and pull 2 cars with it my prints get stuck that bad. But even if you have glass you better have that printer heat and speed dialed in for sure.
You may be a pro at the designs and such that you print, but I figure this like my CNC plasma table tons of others runs theirs different then I do and I do know glass isn't something for me.
You need to adjust z-offset when changed from glass to flex-mat surface, also you might need to re-level the bed if print on difference temp.
No, the probe has always the same Z-offset. He does not have to re- level it because he prints only in the center.
ive never had any issues with flexible!
thx
You should scratch up the PEI surface a little bit with steel wool. Also you shouldn't print PETG on smooth PEI without glustick since it can damage it. Energetic store has a double sided one that compatible with PETG and TPU on the textured side. Amúgy jó lett a videó :)
Köszi!
@@MyTechFun I want to replace the build surface with PEI Spring Steel but I'm still confused about choosing the PEI smooth or textured one for printing ABS and PLA. do you have any recommendations for me?
@@MyTechFun Sok dologra ha rákerestem, a Te videóid jöttek fel. Szerintem jól csinálod, hajrá! :) Szépen belerepültél a nyomtatásba Te is, ahogy látom :D
Hi, great videos......do you tell me What temperature do you use in bed? For petg? And glass bed? Thx
PLA 60°C, PETG on Prusa 90°C on Ender printer(s) 80°C
You used the magnetic sheet in the wrong way. Because its flexible it needs to be held down by magnets else it can bulge in the middle, dislodging prints. Even so from experience I think its pretty poor for adhesion compared to the others and over time its surface degrades. Its not bad with gluestick but id always pick the glass or textured PEI over it.
What is your retraction settings on using swiss extruder?
usually 1 mm
What did you spray on the PEI sheet?
How do you clean your PEI sheet? I have one that I clean with 91º Isopropyl Alcohol but I printings won't stick anymore
PEI sheet has to be cleaned with isopropyl alcohol (I use 98%). But 91 should be ok too. I don't think this is the reason. But try with 98-99 just in case. First wash the sheet with soap (just once). If nothing helps, theoretically with acetone you can reactivate the PEI, but be carefull with this, because life time reduces with this. Or try with "000 steel wool" as described here: whambamsystems.com/install
@@MyTechFun Thank you, I washed the one I had issues with it with Soap and it worked, now I'm starting to deal with the Creatility PEI. Question: If I have issues again do I wash it with soap again or I should never wash it with soap again?
Oh and can I use Nail Polish Remover or Do I have to use pure acetone for reactivate the PEI?
@@andreojuegosyestrategia1266 I am not familiar with Nail polish remover. But stay with a soap. You can wash it with soap any time. Try to avoid acetone if possible. Only if you are sure that nothing else helps..
@@MyTechFun Thank you very much!!!
my PEI plate suddenly had zero adhesion anymore..form one print to the next, it was ridicolous, like a curse. Its a doublesided PEI sheet, that makes it even weirder, because i only used 1 side and thought, well im just gonna turn it around, but that one didnt stick either. ISOpropanol treatment helped nothing. The printsheet still looks like new, but zero chance for PLA to stick. Its incredible. It worked fine for a few weeks.
Try to reactivate the surface with steel wool (read more on WhamBam website)
mi a neve annak a sprének? nekem CR 6 SE van, és ott se akar erre az edzett carborundum üveglapra leragadni, már egy hónapja küzdök, még a ragasztó stifttel vagyok a legeredményesebb
Printafix (3djake-nél vettem)
great job
Good video. Is your PEY still working fine?
Yes, still my favourite until I don't have some textured PEI sheet (like on Prusa)
@@MyTechFun Do you like textured PEI ?
i have found that ISO doesnt work as well as just dawn dish soap for cleaning the beds, i have a spray bottle with water and dawn soap in it i spray a little on a paper towel and wipe the bed then a wet towel to clean off soap let it dry
IPA has worked just as good, if not better then using dawn dish soap. On borosilicate glass, PEI and mirrors. That's going for at least 2 years now.
@@br0k3nilluzion it doesnt work better than just cheap soap and water, think what are you trying to do when you clean the bed is get all the oils from touching it off and dirt dawn dish soap works very well at getting rid of oils and what little bit of dust may be there the main thing is getting oils cleaned off and dawn dish soap does that very well why spend the extra money on something u dont need when u can use something u already have in the house
@@3dprintingcave778 IPA works just as good. It's cheaper, can be bought at the dollar store for under a dollar and lasts for a long, long time.
@@br0k3nilluzion lol but you dont need to buy it you already buy soap i hope to clean your dishes use that no extra money spent not even 1 dollar lol
@@3dprintingcave778 i have 26 printers not counting the resin printers.
Dish soap helps when using mirrors and Aquanet/glue but IPA works just as good.
I like Aquanet more then Gluesticka when it's needed.
But on PEI I can clean it with a spray of IPA on a papertowel, wipe and be able to move on in seconds
Sugar and water on glass works well ☺️
I have both Ender3 V2 stock glass bed and almost the same with Creality branding - and they both are terribly bad, only barely works if flipped to glass side. For me it is even difficult to believe in your test results of them! Switched to PEI sheet from Two Trees - and literally have zero problems since then.
i fought with this for 2 weeks after installing bl-touch. Z-offset was wrong. I havent cleaned my bed over a month and it still sticks perfectly. I highly recommend 3DLac. you will never ever think about adhesion again
@@gmergulhao I don't think about it anymore and do not use any additional stuff, PEI for the win.
That's exactly what I was talking about in conclusions. E3V2 glass works perfectly to me, similar with glass on Voxelab Aquila (E3V2 clone) but horrible on Sermoon D1, and lot of commenters mentioned problems with their E3V2 glass. PEI quality more constant.
I use the creality glass bed for pla and pei sheet for petg.
Thanks for the video. As a printing noob, I'm confused by the results with the flexible magnetic bed (that comes with the ender 3 pro), as I've never had any issues with prints sticking. I clean after each print with alcohol, manual bed leveling with a piece of paper, and using 50c bed temp it's been golden.
I've read countless threads around the internet from people who can't get things to stick and I'm wondering if maybe creality has changed the bed to something better? My printer is fairly new, so maybe or maybe not... But it's confusing anyway.
That's what I mentioned and also noticed from other comments. Soft magnetic and glass may work good, but product quality is not constant. PEI sheet more reliable
@@MyTechFun With PEI for the perfect adhesion you need to scrub it with rough side of a kitchen sponge or fine sand paper...
@@syty9928 Not with every PEI sheet (wham bam PEX or PEI requires this). Prusa PEI not for example.
i have "PLA on Soft magnetic self-adhesive platform" it is way better than "PLA on Carborundum glass" i dont get it why this is not working on your video.
Thx for the info. That's what I mentioned in video too, quality of the glass and soft magnetic plate variates. PEI is more constant.
something is not doing right. pei larvelo with soapy water (not with alcohol) assured him that the grip of the pieces is greater than that of glass.
The new pei does not stick very well I suppose because of grease or polish ... But if it cleans with soap, hot water and green sponge etc What is used to clean dishes etc.
can't watch the entire video. but which surface is your favorite?
PEI
Carborundum glass, it has given poor bed adhesion for me. We always use prit-stick with it. Temperature doesn't help. Utter crap.
Recently on my workplace we bought E3V2 and it arrived with very poor bed adhesion carborundum glass. The version I got for the review (almost 2 years ago) has very strong adhesion, but also the color is different. So Creality changed it in the meantime.
fuck, just bought the magnetic ender black one thinking it was better than the glass one. Haven't installed yet, I think I won't just lost my money hahahah it is what it is
no shit you gotts lower the z-offset for a thinner bed
Ender printers always look Tonka.
NO NO NO NO NO ! ... by placing flexible magnetic sheet on non magnetic surface, you totaly ruin your test, because you make your sheet to raise with your model you're pulling.. and when it flexes, it just pop the thing off the plate.