Forget about PEI beds - we've got PEY now!
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Thanks to Private Internet Access for sponsoring this video! Check them out at piavpn.com/Toms3D
You can get the printbed I showed in the video from AliExpress:
H1H (Holographic lines) go.toms3d.org/H1H
PEY (Holographic circles) go.toms3d.org/PEY
PET (Carbon Fiber texture) go.toms3d.org/PET
PEO (Polygon texture) go.toms3d.org/PEO
(The names really seem to have nothing to do with what material they’re made from, they’re just different textures as far as I can tell.)
Product links are affiliate links - I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases (at no extra cost to you)
Models shown:
Portable Cable Organizer / Winder by squinn www.printables.com/de/model/5...
Fast-Printing Modular Drawer System (Vase Mode) by LR3DUK www.printables.com/de/model/1...
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:23 Sponsor
2:55 Unboxing
5:57 Setup
7:10 PLA prints
8:10 PLA results
10:08 PETG prints
10:24 Explanations on how these beds work
11:37 PETG results
12:35 ASA prints
12:55 Conclusion - Věda a technologie
Thanks to Private Internet Access for sponsoring this video! Check them out at piavpn.com/Toms3D
Is there anything you found on Aliexpress that piqued your interest? Let me know below!
You can get the printbed I showed in the video from AliExpress:
H1H (Holographic lines) go.toms3d.org/H1H
PEY (Holographic circles) go.toms3d.org/PEY
PET (Carbon Fiber texture) go.toms3d.org/PET
PEO (Polygon texture) go.toms3d.org/PEO
(The names really seem to have nothing to do with what material they’re made from, they’re just different textures as far as I can tell.)
Interesting I honestly didnt expect such tiny details like that of holograms to be transferable to the molten plastic tracks. Doesnt sound impossible just not expected.
I wonder if we can somehow transfer this tiny structures on to a PEI coating? That way we have both function and form?
IF you order a PET build plate surface with a "carbon fiber" pattern, why would you call it "fake carbon fiber" as if you were expecting "carbon fiber"? Why is it that Europeans and Americans use the term "fake", even for open source devices whenever a Chinese company sells them? I don't ever this term used whenever they come from any European or American company. I can understand you using the term "fake", IF the seller were advertising it as "carbon fiber", but I'm sure they didn't.
@@kenwoo3601 The applied science channel got this effect to transfer to chocolate!
thank you for your video , you are the best ! :D Happy Xmas
And why do you take such dodgy sponsors? Do they have bots upvote your scam ad?
All of these PE(random letter) print beds are just marketing terms. All of these are Polypropylene material, their whole adhesion comes from texture, unlike with PEI. Those have been in multiple discussions on r/3dprinting in the last year and someone made a mass spectrometer analysis on them somewhere.
well I knew that pey wasn't a material but those being pp is new to me
If they pp, isn't that make them very for pp filament?
I can't believe anyone takes AliExpress descriptions seriously.
Yep, this essentially. Plus more often than not, they get freaking wrecked over time. Even more so than PEI beds.
Laughs with my PEG bed (Probabl E Glass)
I'm gonna hold out and wait for PEZ
PEZ candy print bed pattern
😂
Too late we're at QAA now.
I have the 'carbon fiber' and wacky geometric ones. I used to hate them until I discovered you need to print a little hotter (50c) and lower your Z by -0.04 (I use the 'Textured PEI' bed slicer setting with my Bambu, which does this). It provides more adhesion and squish into the bed pattern.
The other thing is washing the heck out of it with dish soap right before printing. I've had consistently better results with all materials washing with dish soap.
Your mileage may (will) vary.
Forget about 3D printing, these are perfect for what I'm looking for. Been on the edge between getting holographic foils or tapes, as substrates for silicone molds. But these are just perfect for casting silicone molds. I'll just 3D print the outer edges of the shape/mold and without even separating them from the build plate I can just pour in the silicone. Awesome find, thank you, and yes at least the PEI back of these will still be useful for conventional 3D printing.
Could use magnets embedded in the 3D printed mold to hold it tight to the surface. Would you need a gasket to keep the silicone from pouring out the bottom?
I think we have today's winner. Happy Holidays! :D Big up!
show us your process because i kinda didnt understand D:
Got a PEY holographic star plate off Aliexpress recently. Had to crank up the bed temp to 70 to get decent adhesion. It's pretty subtle in normal non studio lights but a lovely touch imo.
I kept yelling at the screen "try increasing the bed temp!". Good to know i had the right intuition.
I think these sheets are a nice addition. Nothing essential, but it can make stuff stand out a bit.
SO GLAD you covered these. I've been seeing them for a while now and have always been curious about them!
Huh, bout time there were actual "beds" for this effect now. About a year ago in printing groups the rainbow reflective pattern of the print at 1:20 was the craze. People were gluing down a form of vinyl onto their PEI bed for the smooth reflective effect. One person used window-blocking film with a stained glass appearance to create it.
I printed a tabletop game console enclosure a while back. All the visible surfaces were bed facing. Some of those patterns would look great in that application! Thanks for showing these.
I'm glad to have thrown this idea to a manufacturer. 😁 Since they were just starting doing textures in aliexpress i told them why not Holo pattern?? It has a glass transition like chocolate so it should in theory capture holo. I'm obsessed with holos and sure enough in a month they started producing holo! Now i see all sorts of holo patterns 😊 ofc, more holo patterns wouldn't hurt 😅
My other idea, is a "moving" texture that looks like it shifts at different angles. Similar to 5D shift and in theory, it should also capture into the first layer. Haven't shared this one though. It may be more prone to damage if the nozzle is too low.
Thomas, your video of these print surfaces really caught my eye so I purchased several different ones for my P1S, MK3 and K1 and they do work well and I I can say they look really nice. I didn't have any adhesion problems, but I normally set my print beds to 70C for PLA, PETG, ASA filaments. Thank you for reviewing these.
The micro-texture, more than the material, seems like a real promising idea. Going from an incidentally produced and carefully controlled surface texture to one that can be designed. These are different materials so it can't be a 1 to 1, and the holographicness seems like it would be material specific based on viscosity and molecular size, but I can imagine normal materials with non-holographic circular patterns doing a better than random job of resisting forces in all directions, and long parallel or near-parallel grooves or really high aspect hatching could be really good on long thin parts, to increase the hold strength perpendicular to the long axis. I'd really love to see normal printbed surfaces with "engineered" micro-textures rather than artistic ones.
I really did not expect the textures of these beds to transfer so well, and even be shiny and stuff on the part. Neato
Yeah. That explains why tool and die (mold) manufacture is so damn expensive.
Thank you for sharing your findings. I do a lot of user-facing textures and find that these will be useful in introducing some variety!
Sounds perfect for two dimensional prints, like wall decorations. Thanks for the video Thomas!
I could see the brighter holographic surfaces being popular for 3d printed cell phone protectors.
Great video! Sometimes it's so hard to pull the trigger on things like these, and it's so nice that you tried them out first.
Optical engineer here: these color effects are caused by 2D photonic crystal. Repetitive structures on the scale of ~100 nanometers.
I love it and would be awesome for demonstrations!
Thank you for this explanation, I think we've all thought something like this but couldn't put legit words behind it.
Will the pattern wear out? Is it an imparted property or a transferred structure?
I often 3D Print "extruded" letters for interior signs. These would be perfect to use for the face of the letters to produce a unique look. Imagine walking in your company conference room and not only seeing your company logo on the wall, but upon further inspection of the letters you can see hologram shapes... Not for everyone, but worth it to have a few laying around for a little extra pop on a project. Even people knowledgeable in 3D printing might question how it was done... that alone is almost worth it.
I've been working with these alternative beds for a while and agree with Thomas' points. I have products that benefit from these textures, but there is a price to pay on bed adhesion. The texture has lasted for hundreds of prints. On the plus side, I found the plain PEI side to be good quality and these are cheap enough to experiment with.
I love holographic stuff and when these dropped I went and bought them all too. You have to get your bed pretty levelled for it to stick well, and you can't use glue it'll kill the holo, but otherwise it's been great. If you print things like lids and flat stuff these are the dream. No more ugly first layers meant to be hidden.
I have several holographic and patterned plates. I’ve found that first washing them *gently* with dish detergent works a treat, never had adhesion issues.
I literally just got one from Temu in the mail today. Can't wait tonsee how it prints.
Got the diamond shaped one and came pretty much to the same conclusion. Inferior adhesion compared to PEI but sufficient for most parts and it gives a nice surface.
Also, as you mentioned the textured PEI on the backside is quite fine, which i really like compared to the coarser one i already had.
Hey Happy Holidays! :D Can I ask you, how quick they wear? Glue or not, to be safe? Thank you!
I went on Ali express right after this video and bought these. They really do work well. I have not used any glue stick and with PLA, PLA+ and Silk so far no issues with warp or corner adhesion. Plus the textured look is great. Even on a 10hr print it held fast.
I have all of these beds, and quite a few more. I simply refer to them as “diffraction beds”. The carbon fiber one is very useful (for my application) however it wears down the quickest and shows imperfections quickly. The adhesion is relatively the same for all of them if you’re using PLA or PETG but you’ll need to bump up the bed temp 5-7c higher.
The CF Pattern sheet at least used to say only up to 80C bed temp, so I'm impressed it worked okay for ASA. I find that one has the worst adhesion.
I honestly started buying these mostly for the high quality gold powder coat on the other side because it was the cheapest way to get them.
Thanks much for being the tester. I ran across these in Nov and couldn't find reliable info!
best video on these plates, been looking for this thank you
I have one with stars. It's a 220mm x 220mm. I use quite a bit of squish for the first layer and wash the plate with dish soap before every couple of prints. I've only used it with quite small PLA prints.
I've found that increasing the first layer nozzle temp (240) and reducing the bed temp (55) helps with the PLA warping on the PEY. not eliminated on large parts but its a step in the right direction.
It's been a good 5-6 years since I've 3d printed. I watched Tom back then, and I gotta say the quality of the videos are still 10/10, but your new "Rizz" in front of the camera makes this much more fun to watch a full video!
I think with the availability of enclosed printers, printing even PLA in a warm enclosure is the way forward. This should prevent the slight warping we're seeing here. I like them! Now just to find one in 500mm. 🙂
I know nothing about what these are actually made out of. However I can tell you they work great. I have been using them on my Bambi P1S. Adhesion has been excellent and the pattern transfers well.
I'm amazed those patterns carry over into the pla!
I've just received my AliExpress order, printing on the prismatic sheet now! Man the sheet just looks so cool on it's own
Loved the review! I ordered a few to try them out for the different finishes. I have a few prints in mind I think they would go great with.
Hey thanks for taking the time to do this video man.
Thanks for the great video!
These beds look cool, I definitely need to get some.
Interesting results. Plain cut mirrored bets have been my go-to for the last few years with a small coating of PVA. However whilst printing a project a few weeks back I wanted the CF look on the print and decided to use some of the CF wrap that I was going to use to cover the back side of one of my beds. The results I got came out nothing short of outstanding. I actually found that the prints in my case stuck slightly too much in some instances and did not release as well as they did when the glass cooled down compared to just normal glass or mirrored beds.
If I am honest and not knowing the quality of the wrap material that has been used in those on the video I would be tempted to just used good qualify wrap material on an existing planing bed or even on the back of an existing bed. The good quality stuff I have used can be got for not much money in a 1M lengths and for about the same money as buying a pre-made bed with the bonus that you get a whole lot more to wrap others / replacements.
I have been using some of these for a few months.
The bed adhesion isn't as good as regular PEI, yet still good for PLA, but your prints obviously don't have enough squish on the first layer as even the infill direction is very obvious but it should be smooth. Either add ~5% flow for the first layer, or use lower first layer height. I have printed huge parts on those without warping. The colorful ones do stick a bit worse than those with patterns but all of them are good for regular PLA.
The only time I had trouble was with PLA-CF and PETG-CF and using a 0.3mm extrusion width with a 0.4mm nozzle (not enough squish). You can use a very slight spray of 3D LAC on those without impacting the pattern.
I really like these, and I run them from time to time. I have also noticed slightly less adhesion when using them.
Thomas does like these plates! Very cool video about these plates! I have seen them last month during the Black Friday deal on Ali, but didn't want to spend money on those plates and get the things I really needed.
I used these on my 35cm^3 voron...large projects were failures.. but i still love the textures.. it can really enhance certain projects
I just got a PEO sheet with the triangular pattern cant wait to test it out and see those cool effects on my prints! Great video wasnt sure if i could use petg as well so thats good to know it works as well
My PEO sheet looks good with PETG, and I was surprised to see him 'cleaning' the sheets before use, I suspect that's what made them stick less, my PETG sticks very well, but I get corners and edges lifting slightly with all material.
My PEO sheet looks good with PETG, and I was surprised to see him 'cleaning' the sheets before use, I suspect that's what made them stick less, my PETG sticks very well, but I get corners and edges lifting slightly with all material.
@@ljadfwhat’s wrong with his cleaning?
@@ljadfwhy would cleaning with isopropyl alcohol cause less adhesion? I’m a car wrapper and we always use ISO on each vehicle prior to wrapping and it definitely increases adhesion.
These have certainly made the rounds. Maybe a little over a year ago, an Aussie who was streaming their Bambu had a PEY bed and basically everyone did a double take. Being in Australia, shipping anything to them is expensive so they often go to Aliexpress and spotted one of these and gave it a try. Fast forward, lots and lots of people use them and their very popular with model sellers as an added eyecatching element when someone looks to see if they want to buy the model. I'm glad you explained the letters, because I didn't really find things explaining what they all meant. Now I know it's really just the pattern (and one of the commenters explained this is Polypropylene).
I've been using all these crazy beds on my X1C for a few months. When printing with the holographics I just go up to 65 or 70C and that's usually enough to avoid the warping. Textured PEI or PEX work at 55-60C. It's nice to just have all the options depending on the print and what will look best with it. My wife always wants everything printed on the holographic circle or flake beds... Plus if you gouge one of your textured PEI beds on accident, well you have 10 more since they all have a good PEI surface as well.
Thanks for saving us testing time (and money). I actually will buy new plate thanks to this video, but it will be satin PEI (maybe glossy too, but I already have FR4 for that).
I think these plates are quite nice as a little gimmick. Not super expensive and could be fun to have around. Especially for stuff like handles, even rougher surfaces could be interesting. So you get a certain feel while not having to print texture into something.
Very useful review of these things. I probably would never have tried them, as the most gimmicky stuff on aliexpress usually is wasted money. But I might give it a go now.
Just found your video. Got the entire collection as well, and ordered from Juupine as well! Excellent customer service in message center. The holographic and non-holographic effects rock. Depending on the filament color they can be feignt to very obvious!
Very interesting. Once the build quality is better and more testing is done I might try one.
Ah this is cool. At last we get to see a real life comparison of these different bed materials. Thanks a lot! On top of that I am glad to see you get sponsored by PIA. It is indeed a great VPN service. Highly recommended compared to NordVPN for instance.
I love the look!
I had not seen that carbon fiber version yet. Have most of the others and love them. If you use hairspray they still leave the effect and get more than adequate adhesion.
The drawback the surfaces are extremely fragile and any maring will permanently be imprinted into your parts
I've been using "PEY" holographic print surface a couple years and they work strangely very well. Print adhesion and release has be as good or better than textured on most of the prints I've thrown at them. Not all material types will pick up the holographic effect. ASA didn't as much but ABS did. I printed a bunch of V0 parts and none lifted.
It's nice being able to buy these easily, finally. For years, the only source was to DM a random guy in HK through a translator.
I bought the last few though a couple of the major 3d printer sellers in Ali. PEY one side and nicely textured the other. Cost is likely going to jump after the increased coverage. I got my v0 sized plates for 7USD each shipped and the mk2 and v2.4 for around 15 and 20-something.
The big question is how well they hold up over time.
For what it's worth, the holographic surface is technically a textured surface, just that the texture is at the scale of visible light.
The H1H looks really awesome, I can imagine a lot of prints where this holographic pattern would look great.
I think the polygon pattern looks really beautiful. Nice addition actually, if one can handle the lower adhesion.
A perfect video for Boxing Day, what with all those boxes and all. I’m impressed how much of an impression those diffractive impressions actually make. I’m definitely inclined to get a few for the extra cool factor they add to any print. If the surfaces aren’t quite sticky enough, we can just add a massive brim, I suppose, like we did in the before before times. What obscure 3D printing accessories will you be trying next?
I have a couple of these and they do transfer but it flakes off the build plate after a short time to printing on it. So you end up with bare spots. The PEI side is recommended to scuff up but do amazing at printing and work great for ABS/ASA
Very cool hotbed plate with the pattern in the 3d printed parts!!awesome discovery!! merry christmas from Montreal,Québec!!!
Merry Christmas!
yo thanks for this video! i was already contemplating these sheets, this sold me on them.
I actually like that the printed part gets that holographic look with all the different color reflections,
I like the music with the Scarface feel to them.
Thanks for the video. This is the first I've heard of these types of print beds.
Many industrial machines use actual carbon fiber print sheets.
I've been printing with the circles PEY for a couple of months now. If I use IPA, it fails regularly. If I use just dish soap, and dry with very clean microfibre, I get zero issues. Not one lift or warp. These things hate paper towel, I suppose they're like a grater against the paper with the fluctuations.
I've been waiting for this test !
Yes, it looks great on the paits.
I really like how these look. The triangular one is my favorite since it's not too tacky and would work with pretty much anything. The hexagonal one looks really cool for the right kind of print. They all look cool, the carbon fiber one is the only one I don't like that much. For certain decorative items, these are all great.
I figure over time, the microscopic pattern will get clogged with filament which is impossible to clean properly, and the patterns won't look as nice anymore, that's just to be expected. At least they're pretty cheap.
I bought the H1H and PET ones.They look nice, I hope the effect will stay after a few prints or wash.
Do kind of wish these held up to printing a bit better, would be a nice option to have for certain Prince; but hey, there's always the potential for improvement, so maybe we'll see some better stats in the future
I started using the holographic ones on some of my prints to easily see oil contamination, from say, fingers on surfaces I'm about to glue or double sided tape I'm about to put together, this works really well with fixing the no stick stickyback problem
❤❤❤Great video. Always wondered about these sheers. Mahalo for sharing!
I use AprintaPro PrintaFix Basic on all of my beds (I put a bit of Isopropanol on the bed, than two ort three times pressing the spray button of Printerfix and whiping the mixture with a whipping towl). The adheason works great than.
However, even with outo-z-offset, remember sensors like BL-Touch or loadcell or tap probe the surface. On textured PEI powdercoated bed the top is measured, but to get a close surface also the valeys of the coat have to be filled, while a flat furface like PEI sheet or the new holographic effect surface have no valley to fill.
To get the pefect filled but not oversqueezed first layer, you have to compensate this difference. There are two ways to do so: Increase the first layers flow rate a bit to fill the valeys, or put the nozzle a bit closer with textured beds. On my X-Max 3 (using BL-Touch), the z-offset between using textured or flat surface differ about 0.06 mm.
Also, to get optimal effect, you need a very precide leveling probe. The mk4 load cell works quite nice. However, on my X-Max 3 9 magnets are embedded into the bed. As a BL-Touch is used, wich uses a Hall-Effect Sensor, theese magnets effect the detection a tiny bit. While you can not see it on textured beds, on theese holographic beds you see the errors in the mesh.
So if you want to use this, make sure the bed leveling works as perfect as possible. On my X-Max 3 I increased the density of the mesh to 15 by 15 points. Also I think about replacing the integrated magnets by an magnetic foil.
Thanks, I was curious about those but I always waited to pull the trigger untill someone tried them. I think I will buy one or two just for a bit of fun.
actually just bought a bunch of these for K1 Max from Kingroon and was wondering about their performance before they arrive. so perfect timing :)
THis been very interesting. I might just buy the polygonal and carbon fibre surfaces. They looks cool.
That's so cool! Surprised it worked as well as it did. Guess maybe there is a heat distribution issue?
Whenever I run PETG, I don't run the cooling fan for the first 50 layers and never have adhesion issues (like corner peeling). No border/brim either.
I moved on from PEI to Pertinax (FR2) flex sheets for commercial printing a couple of years ago because you can print all filaments (TPU, ABS, PLA, PETG and nylon) it. (some filament types like TPU need some glue stick as a separator on the surface to stop it sticking to much. I use a very thin and water diluted solution of Magigoo PC brushed on it for all filaments Best of all you can also sand it to refurbish surface after a couple of years use.
this is almost as exciting as the klipper upgrade i just did. cant believe how well the holographic stuff works.
I am using a G10 bed, works very well with adhesion and release of prints.
So nice to have options.
I've been using these for my prints, and it's more of a novelty, but they do stick well enough so I don't have to use adhesive. I crank up my first layer to 70° then 65° for the rest of the print.
I have been printing with these build plates for as long as they have been on the market . The first build plate I got worked great for about 3 prints and then after that i could no longer get anything to stick , so after 2 months of trying to get my money back I got an email from the company telling me I was using it the wrong way. They said to never use isopropyl alcohol to clean the build plate because this is why its not sticking . All you have to do to prep the bed is to clean the build plate with dish soap and hot tap water, and dry with paper towel . Now everything i print sticks 100% . I do not understand why this works but after over 400 prints , there still working as if there new. Hope this helps. I use PLA,PETG,ABS, EPA-CF with 100% success, and I now own 12 of these build plates.
I picked up one of the polygonal peo type. Definitely puts a cool pattern on the first layer but in general doesn’t have perfect adhesion. Still pretty cool though 👍🇦🇺😊
I had no idea how the colours worked. Thanks for providing the explanation and testing... I guess I'll stick with my PEI 🤓
Funnily enough I just ordered the carbon fiber and the holographic circles one last night and then have just come across this today. I was really hoping you weren't going to say they were crap at the end (as I just got the "we shipped your order" message like an hour ago haha)
very very cool. while it'd be a challenge to get proper adhesion - barring there's a goldilocks zone between bed temp, filament, and object design - i can easily see myself enjoying the creative decision of deciding which holographic finish i'd want on - lets say - a keyboard case, or something to prominently display the effect!
Amazing solutions, thanks!
I am so happy you tested it on Prusa and have Voron in the background. I am noticing so many people at least have Bambu somewhere in the back if not at front nowadays.
They are so aggressive I am starting to hate them.
They are neat!
i got one of each for my bambu, completely satisfied with all of them accept for the carbon fiber, nothing wants to stick to that.
Note, you can't print TPU on the textured PEI sheet. Those holographic or textured design ones I believe are more suited for TPU.
That polygon look is so good
and here i'm still just rockin my creality borosilicate glass plate with whatever the stuff is, printed on the surface. 'composite microporous coating'. yeah because thats super clear.
oh well, works fantastically. pop it off the heatbad and run it under warm water, like new in short order. no fancy scrubbing needed, just my finger tips.
when my prints are done, i let the bed cool, and the prints basically just pop off with minimal lateral force. if i'm in a hurry, or don't want to try and twist the piece, i use a super smooth polished wood chisel to gently slide under the leading edge of the print and it pops in a few mm of insertion.
Id like a basic, uncoated spring steel sheet cut to size and shape that i can apply my own buildtack sheet to. When the sheet wears out i just peel it off and apply a new one. No point in replacing the steel sheet if it is still flat.
I've been using the polygonal style about 2 months ago. Adhesion is meh, but not bad as mentioned. But after about 100 prints it's still putting the pattern in well !
Been happily using peo with triangles for several months. It's just great, but requires 70 degrees for sunlu pla+ to stick.
H1h look very cool !
I use hair spray , the strong hold type. It works really well !
I've been running kapton sheets on my ancient Flashforge creator knockoff (Microcenter house brand version) and have never really had any issues other than really small parts with very little surface contact with the platter. I thought about getting a plate like these just because the removability is nice and because weirdly the screws that hold the plate down are exposed, but never have committed.