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Is Kyle Dubas a Fraud or a Hockey Genius?
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
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Is Dubas a fraud, or did his team let him down?
Dubas is a fraud AND his team let him down.
Well, the Leafs are going full send this season. A lot of UFA's next year.
hes a fraud
Team failed him in TOR, in PIT he sheded multiple terrible moves from Hextall & Co.
At the end of the day, Dubas is still an upgrade over Hextall
in 2009, the pittsburgh penguins had 17 players with the minimum league salary at 700k, and they still won the cup
That was 2009🤦♂️
And that's not entirely true either because many players received hefty bonuses on top of the min salary, which factors in after the season, counting against the following year's cap
@shaggyfrankdizzl close, but wrong.
While performance bonuses count against the salary cap, teams are permitted to exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses, to a maximum of 7.5% of the Salary Cap.
If a team exceeds the Salary Cap due to performance bonuses, then any amount over the Salary Cap is considered a Bonus Carryover, and counts against the cap in the next season.
Signing bonuses are paid up front or on July 1 of a contract year.
@@kyledalton8501 you said exactly what I said, just wasted more time.
Thanks for nothing, we are all dumber now having read this.
Lol if you seen the bonuses they got...you'd retract this comment bro.
If the Toronto Maple Leafs do not win during the Matthews-Marner-Tavares-Nylander era, this can be looked at as a cautionary tale of why you shouldn’t ruin your chances by signing the most expensive FA to make a splash
As a leafs fan. Trust me they aren’t winning shit lol
It should be seen as a cautionary tale that you can’t win in the playoffs with a soft skill laden top 6. Your top 6 has to have tough skill. Marchand, Tkachuk, Bertuzzi, etc.
It will be a cautionary tale of the importance of quality depth and why failing to get the right pieces around the stars results in perpetual failure
@@Dylandontplay as much a chance as any team. especially in the east
It should be a cautionary tale on not hiring a gm who's only experience is a few years in junior
Genius = inheriting the best young team in the league after a rebuild and winning 1 round
Blame Shanahan
You can give the Leafs the best team in the world, they'll fuck it up.
Ignorance. Dubas was AGM from 2014-2018. He had a big say in the draft process and like always, worked his ass off more than most
and signing them all to humongous money, thereby handcuffing himself. Then not bothering with goaltending or a number 1 D.
@@jonah.donohuewhy blame Shanahan? Because he should kept Lou but gave the keys to the castle to wonder boy Dubas? It’s hilarious how many Dubas defenders there are and yet he did absolutely nothing to get the team under the cap (that was LL) the drafting were slam dunks and all he really had to do was fill a roster and not get run over in his young stars initial contracts.
He spends like a drunk cashing their paycheck at the bar on pay day. He’s been horrible.
As much as I hate Pittsburgh as a rival, Dubas did undo most of the damage done by the Hextall-Burke era with the Karlsson trade.
To add on, is it really Dubas' fault that Matthews and Marner basically disappear come playoff time?
No, but it's 100% his fault for not adapting to the situation. He is naive and stubborn.
@@eriklakeland3857 For the reasons stated in the video I am thankful Dubas was finally fired as Leafs' GM. He should've been after the embarrassing loss of a 2020 playoff series to the Blue Jackets as he'd learned NOTHING from the loss by the Leafs of the playoff series before that (an opening-round one to the Bruins).
@@wainber1 That's more of an indictment of Sheldon Keefe's coaching than Dubas.
@@eriklakeland3857he said he was changing the core then got fired lol
@@TotalCruiserBabe What about Dubas, or even President Shanahan? Yes Shanny overall earned on average over ½ point per non-preseason NHL game during his career as a winger but as an exec with the Leafs has overseen so many players who haven't reached the level of achievement that he did.
With Dubas gone, Keefe is indeed on a short leash although whether that means Keefe will have to find a new job in the hockey world at some point during or before July 2024 remains TBD. Who's to say that the hire by Raps' Prez Ujiri of Darko Rajaković to replace Nick Nurse as head coach will do wonders to improve team culture? Sure Sid Seixeiro, on a mid-April episode of City-TV Toronto a.m. show Breakfast TV (video titled "'Embarrassing' - Sid shares his thoughts on this Raptors season," posted on the Breakfast TV CZcams channel), claimed Nick Nurse had been part of what'd ailed the Raps last NBA-NHL season but problems with that team, evidenced by a blown lead in a play-in game to the Chicago Bulls (the Raps and Bulls having respectively finished 9th and 10th in the East on winning %, thus needing to win 2 straight games just to get to finish, for playoff-qualifying purposes, 8th and thus qualify for the final playoff spot in that conference), are on the team that Bob Webster (GM) and Masai Ujiri (Prez) assembled. It was thus no surprise Seixeiro claimed that the Raps' having last season had "no bench" had rested at Ujiri's and Webster's feet.
The above leads me to the title of a recent episode of Locked On Raptors (part of the Locked On Sports' pod network) titled "What should Toronto Raptors head coach Darko Rajakovic's top priority be to open the 2023-24 season?" That question is interesting because the Raps' team that only in June hired him looks quite different than the one that'd lost that April play-in game. That includes the departure of point guard Fred VanVleet, something I hope Leafs' GM Treliving will learn from by trading AM34 or Nylander to get something for either forward, but ideally both.
Life long Leafs fan here. And I agree with what you’re saying, somewhat. I see the correlation between the deals you’re talking about. But I truly believe Dubas could not do what he really wanted to do in Toronto. I would bet my life savings he did not have the final say in Toronto. That said, I don’t think he’s anywhere near genius, but I don’t think he’s a bad general manager by any stretch.
Either way, interesting piece here, Rob.
Adding to this, it's not like this offseason has indicated any change in direction despite the GM change. Not that its been a bad offseason by any stretch, but the makeup of the team itself doesn't really hint at things changing in a major way now that Dubas is in Pittsburgh. Core 4 is still there with seemingly no plans to trade them, Keefe's still in charge despite his record in the playoffs, even the guys they brought in are similar to ones they let go, even if they're improvements on the same tyle. If Dubas was the one in control why would they fire him only to keep taking pages from his playbook?
He's far from perfect, I see him in the good-but-not-great category of GMs in the league right now, but as you said I wouldn't be surprised if at least a handful of his more problematic deals weren't necessarily ones he would have made on his own
@@violetbluejayFirstly, the off season moves by tre were marginal at best to laughable at worst.
Secondly, we only need to see Dubas' handy work in Pitts to ascertain his skill level as a GM. i've been watching pitts all year, what a MESS.
We know that dubas was insecure avs inexperienced when he started. So, it looks like shanahan had a hand in his work.
I dont think Letang is very comparable to Burns in this example. He'll be 37 by next postseason, and lowering his TOI I believe was part of the Penguins plan anyways. Will be better suited in a 2nd pair/PP2 rule as time goes on. I'm very excited going into this season for the Pens
Too bad they're missing the post season again
This goes to show how horrible his contract is going to be if true. He is just starting year two of a six (!) year contract where he eats up 6.1 millions of cap space. That's a lot of money for a 2nd pairing defenseman, and given his age, it will only get worse
@@estellegrignon doesn't matter, it's all context, in 3-4 years Penguins will be tanking for first overall. Having veterans on high salaries just make the rebuild faster. But the time Penguins is ready to compete again all those players will be gone/retired.
@@estellegrignonLetang is the 43rd highest paid defenseman in the league…that contract is not bad.
Burns will be 39 next postseason. I do agree with Letang maybe needing a bit less minutes though
Dubas' time in Toronto is definitely one that had its up and downs, but I think you can hardly say he has been bad in Pittsburgh already. Virtually every move he's made outside of Karlsson has been a depth trade or signing. I know people like to call the Jarry singing a bad deal, but ultimately he was the best goalie on the market and he was only going to sign if it was long-term.
We have ZERO idea whether he's been good or not in Pittsburg. It's a result based job, being successful as a team, in its objectives and expectations given the team's window.
Outside of Toronto, something that was "GOOD ON PAPER" or not has NO value. For every other teams and their fanbase/local media, if you have to say that something was "gOoD oN PApeR!1", it means that it sucked in reality, that the move was bad, that the contract was bad, that the team is bad, etc., etc. It's common sense.
So unlike what went on in Toronto, he'll be judged for actual RESULTS, meaning DEEP playoffs runs AT LEAST.
And BTW, getting into the Conf semi-finals and win a SINGLE game is NOT a deep playoff run.
And having only ONE 2 round playoff game win to show for it after an half-decade of a team's compete window is an unmitigated FAILURE.
At least it would be in ANY other franchise. Fans in Toronto really need to stop that cult of personality worship, their victim mentality/conspiratorial BS, and willful blindness, seriously.
THANK YOU Robs; with how huge and insane that fanbase is, you're the only one with the balls to actually show the data and make the obvious conclusion.
Dubas wasn't hired in Pitt because he was good or because of his performance, no, he's part of the good ol' Boys Club now, and so will be part of the lifelong CONSTANT ROTATION of the same few coaches and GMs that sucked everywhere they went. Nepotism is turned to 11 in the NHL eh.
@@Unholy_LouieRealistically we also don't know how much his hands were tied in Toronto. The issues with that team go far beyond anything Dubas did or didn't do, it starts with locker room culture and ends with upper management/ownership.
That being said, I think we can look at what he's done "on paper" with Pittsburgh so far and say that they look much more solid than last year and should be a playoff team again if the core stays healthy.
@@chrismdb5686 Alright. It made me laugh because I know you did it on purpose and yeah it's funny lol
BUT. If you please. Can we talk about the man for ONE SECOND without bringing what freaking is or isn't good "ON PAPER" lol? Come on. :P
It's not even the correct question to ask imho, especially not in the context of Rob's video. He never said that the team wouldn't be better after his moves than it was last year (or in Toronto langage, that it isn't better "on paper" than last year).
No. He said that his move to bring Norris K wasn't THE BEST ONE, wasn't the CORRECT one given what the team has, what it needs, and how his bad cap management completely murders any chance of improving the team elsewhere, places where they are the weakest (or at any point in their window).
It's easy to have a team that isn't as bad as it was the year before dude, especially when ALL players who matter were signed already lol... Come on.
But Rob's point is that it wasn't the best way to do it, and that it's the same type of BS he did in Toronto.
EVEN THEN, like I said, whether it "on paper" or on my left ass cheek, I personally want to wait and see how the team does before calling the move bad or good; although it's certainly an alarming pattern of decisions (you know just as well as myself that all is erased if the team wins the cup, even if it makes the team horrible for years later on, etc...).
As for the first part of your message, you don't know that for a fact, simple as that.
Even then, do you know just how many teams employ both a GM and president just like the Leafs? Are those dozens of GMs also not responsible when their team fails during their window? Fail at their objectives and expectations? Even if it's all within their job description to manage?
Come on dude, it's confirmation bias to the extreme.
And if your shot in the dark turns out to be even close to be true, it would put his management into question all the same (but for different reasons), and even his work ethics.
It doesn't matter anyways, because we have no evidence that his management was any more negatively influenced than for any other GM in the same structure.
Let me ask you this :
IF Toronto had been successful during Dubas' tenure, would you then be saying that it wasn't mainly because of Dubas, and he should thus get very limited credit for the team's success?
I don't think you would if you're honest here. That's called having a strong bias (which is okay; we ALL have some of those). While you don't have to justify yourself in any way, it makes it harder to have a fact based and honest discussion TBH...
@@Unholy_Louie I'm not saying Dubas is absolved of anything regarding his stint in Toronto. What I am saying is that the organization smells rancid, and removing Dubas did nothing to remove the stretch, if you catch my drift. The organization is rotten to its core and needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt before it'll see any success regardless of who's at the driver's seat.
Ups and downs? Ups and downs?! They have some great players who played well but from a GM standpoint he absolutely bottled it, he let amazing players go and massively mismanaged the players and picks he had. From a team standpoint? Yeah, definitely ups and downs. From a GM standpoint? Bottom of the league
He was gifted a promising young roster rimming with high end talent and just entering their prime. The Leafs had Blue Chip prospects and Draft picks. In Pittsburgh it's the opposite. He's saddled by a aging roster who's best years are far behind them. I think committing to the current core (Crosby,Malkin,Letang) played a role in him getting the GM position in Pitt. Pitt has not much as far as draft picks and prospects right now. I think Dubas is set up to fail in Pitt. They will be good and maybe contend for a season or two still, but that means trading away more assets. in a few seasons it's gonna get ugly.
An NHL team needs to hire you, Rob. Your knowledge of the game and understanding of how all the pieces fit together is so impressive!
Professional sports teams belong to the corporate world.
Corporations don’t want knowledge, they want yes men.
Schmucks if you will.
Like Dubas
Lmao
As a Sens fan, the Toronto moto is to try to win now, they don't seem to have any interest in developing anyone else at the moment which seems to fit with the number of trades they have made in the last few years or loss of youngsters to free agency. Going to be interesting this one with Dubas as I think that he's signed up for more of a project with the Penguins in the next 3 years when all the stars retire, going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Great video as always bud.
He is a stats geek. Never played the game at a high level, thinks hockey can be a moneyball situation. You can’t measure hard work, determination, being hungry on pucks, smart plays under pressure etc. William nylander is the perfect example of this. Good stats but he is a very incomplete hockey player.
Nailed it. As a Leafs fan, I’m glad we got out from under the this guy. There are others from that “FA losses” list as well, Ryan O’Reilly, Noel Acciari, and Luke Schenn most recently, all of them were with the team for just a few months, with picks/prospects going the other way. I love Nylander, but I think letting him go would help the team ultimately, and at least create an opportunity to strengthen the D core.
Toronto has losing in their DNA. He was never gonna win there.
Dubas should've been fired the moment he gave Marner $10.9M per year as an RFA, especially when you consider that Rantanen (who had better numbers) signed for $1.5M less a week later. Just an inexcusable overpayment that handicapped the team
Especially when you consider that he wasn't able to get max term.
There is a contingent that absolutely worship him. I have no clue why. He has been there for good Toronto teams, but they haven't won in the playoffs. Plus the most important parts on that team weren't drafted by him, and he overpaid them.
A genius would win a Stanley Cup.
Big time stinker, he messed this team or at least Shanahan messed up by giving the job to a kid. He had lamorello, this video is spot on. Gives away first round draft picks for UFA and nothing to show for it . Don't get me started.
good question. im leaning more towards fraud. he drafts well, but he signs terrible deals, always shoots for top stars, and doesnt build depth, trades away later draft picks to balance out his mistakes. he'll focus so much on one side of puck in toronto offense, there is no payroll for defense or goaltending.
I feel the EK signing is good, you are dealing with a different type of team in Pit, they know how to win and EK and Letang on the back end well its just like Sid and Geno upfront the one two punch it should give other team fits, hopefully
They'd be great in the retirement league
this was actually one of the most interesting hockey videos i’ve seen in a while. good job :)
Yeah I was glued to the screen it was awesome
I'm very grateful for having Moritz Seider on my team. Probably one of the few defenseman who can do both roles as an quarterback and as a pure defenseman.
I agree with your break down, I think it would be really interesting to see you do a similar break down/ retrospective of Bowman’s effect on the Blackhawks vs what was left behind by Dale Talon.
Nice video. There are a lot of prospect and prediction videos in the summer so It's nice to see something deeper like this that lays out an interesting opinion for a hockey discussion. With Dubas I like to think about what position the Leafs would be in if he didn't trade picks and just kept most of the young(when he became GM) guys on the team together. They probably would be better off in a sense without a GM and instead just had a contract negotiator. That's a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point that the talent pool he had when he came on to the team was what carried Toronto much more so then his impact on the team.
Great analysis. You hit the nail on the head! Dubas is a fraud. The MapleLeafs will never win the cup, because it is a team effort. Three players who hold 40,2% of the cap cannot be successful. Toronto has no quality on the bottom six, this might suffice to gain a playoff spot, but among the top 16 teams you need four quality lines, a decent defence and a reliable goalie. Many games have been decided by third line, fourth line players, because the top lines neutralize themselves. Vegas has shown it twice (managed to reach the finals to loose against an even deeper Capitals team and now got the cup).
Imo they'll play Letang and Karlsson on the PP at the same time with EK being the QB and Letang playing almost like a forward. I don't deny this hypothesis would be correct in a lot of other instances but I think this instance will be the one that works out finally. I hope it doesn't cause I hate the Penguins 🤣 but unfortunately I think Penguins will look a lot better than people think.
He's a fraud genius, but real average.
I think its a little far fetched to call Kyle Dubas a fraud, but his time in Toronto can definitely be seen as a failure. Despite the failure I don't think that makes him a phony.
I think Dubas assembled a fantastic team. My opinion is hubris. How can so many superstars play together and still suck? Pride!
You can spin this story anyway you want, but the bottom line is when you give most of your money to 4 players, you arent really getting that much with what you have left. Every team needs a couple of big time goal scorers, but the rest of the roster needs ro be good defensemen and 200 foot players if you want the cup
I was neutral towards Dubas, but I hated the JT signing. Not the player, just the AAV. Leafs lost too many good depth pieces. Bringing in Kerfoot and Barrie was unnecessary. Trading away Brown was a bad move, the Sandin trade didn’t need to happen. Leafs would have had a really solid group. The team could have had Brown and Hyman in their top 6 forward group still.
idk my guy, JT has been the only one worth the money so far.
Not to mention Kadri when he was traded to Colorado, had what was perhaps the best valued contract in the league.
The sandin trade was baffling to say the least
@@mitchelsullivan3118Agree or not, it isn't a puzzle. Sandin, as of now, is not a good defensive player. The Leafs needed to slot in more experienced and defensively minded players. Sandin just didn't fit what they needed at the time.
Yup JT signing killed this team
A bit of the issue, in Toronto, was that Shanahan held a lot of control over all aspects of the team, even over the GM. With Dubas holding all of that power, in Pittsburgh, now, we'll see what he can do. A big difference between Pittsburgh, and SJ, is that the Pens have the personnel to field lines 1A and 1B, as well as defensive pairings 1A and 1B, thanks to the Karlsson acquisition.
I don't see that trade negatively affecting, either, Letang or Karlsson, other than decreasing some ice time, and the likelihood that they get stuck on the ice for far too long.
I’m not worried about Karlsson in Pit. Or that Letang won’t be a good top 4 defensemen. However, NHL teams today are heavily restricted from the salary cap, and having 17 million dollars tied into 2 offensive defensemen is a bit of a head scratcher.
I would argue that Shanahan needed to go. Getting rid of Lou for a rookie GM the year of the biggest signing of the team's future makes no sense on or off paper.
Dubas isn't a genius nor a moron. He's a very decent, average GM. Can find cheap depth, can have great hits on trades but also big misses, but hasn't had much success drafting.
In all fairness to Dubas, the only reason the cap hasn't jumped significantly was due to Covid. There's no possible way anyone could have predicted. Which had a huge impact on Toronto's ability to retain depth. With that said, he absolutely overpaid for Tavaras and probably should have been more firm with Matthews and Marner. Granted, I don't think he was getting either to take much less considering their respective seasons when their contracts were up. Not to mention, both knew how important they were to the Leafs.
I also think blame needs to be shared between Dubas and the players. Toronto had no business whatsoever losing to Montreal. And I say that as a Habs fan. Even the Boston series, they more or less choked at the last minute. So I think a consideration of blame needs to go around. Pittsburgh, in my opinion, will be the real tell of Dubas' career. If they crash and burn, he'll go down with them.
I agree not seeing enough people mention how much the pandemic made those contracts look even worse than what they were when he signed them. Very interested to see how he does with Pittsburgh this year
Nobody can predict the future which, is why you should never put your team in a position like Dubas put the Leafs.
His tenure in Toronto was a case study in arrogance and hubris.
What's this nonsense about the cap not rising?
The cap rises and falls for all teams.
If a team has 40million dollars in 4 players then that team's ability to pay for depth is reduced regardless of the cap.
BECAUSE THE CAP RISES AND FALLS FOR EVERY TEAM!
I’m so excited for the dubas era in Pittsburgh, I’m it’s gonna be a rollercoaster for sure, but I’m here for it
Hot take: I think Dubas is still a top 10 or even top 5 GM in the league and the Leafs have just been a very unlucky franchise. His Achilles heel, however, is contract negotiations.
Hahahahsha. Shanny spoon fed him his career. And he blew it. My wife wears the pants.
depth and goaltending
You could also have talk about Goalies. Dubas was not able to find a decent number 1 goalie in his time with Toronto. One of his first move arriving in Pittsburg was to sign injury prone Tristan Jarry to a 5 years, 25 millions deal.
Campbell in 2021 was more than you could of asked for, but the team let him down
Extremely important point! Leafs got stellar performances from good goaltenders but never committed to investing in the position.
Best goalie on the market (without trading for Helle) and would only sign to a deal with term. Jarry's problem is that he IS a decent starter, rather than a stellar one.
What number 1 goalies was available for Dubas to acquire? Jarry is still a multi-time all star, that is not an unmovable contract by any means
thats why some gm have balls and can trade a good player that has value for what he need.. hellybuck for nylander for exemple .. movee like that make you stanley cup champ.. and paying 3-4 guys 10 m each is dumb
Dubas shouldnt get as much credit as some give him for their regular season success or as much blame as he gets for their failures Shanny is still in charge and clearly limiting what he allows hid GMs to do. Dubas isnt a top tier GM or a bottom one. We wont really get to see what he actually is until the Pittsburgh stars retire and he builds his team from the ground up. He needs to stop having a hilarious bias to former Soo Greyhounds though
Great comment! Shanny spoon fed him, built him up, and...he had to check with his wife, and his options. Options? Like you don't owe Shanny? Omg. Not a leafs fan, but wow.
you put kerfoot into the wins category, but they lost him to free agency this year
Thank you Rob, you really don't accept BS and it's a rare thing. Given the extremism in that fanbase lately, to the point of going into the defense of a failed GM that doesn't even work for their team anymore, not many other prominent NHL creators would have the guts to do this video.
Maybe it will help some of the insane cult of personality worship fans to gain a bit of self awareness...
I highly doubt the decision to sign Tavares and resign Matthews and Marner were Dubas' alone. You don't give away that much money without ownership involvement. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was told to get those guys at any cost. They're marketable superstars in the biggest hockey market. I suspect Dubas' hands were tied
As a Sharks fan I'm pulling for Pittsburgh to finish with a top 10 pick this year and then win the lottery for 1st overall next year so the Sharks can use it to draft Michael Misa.
I think this is going to work in Pittsburgh, because while Letang scores points on the PP, he's not a great QB. He excels in zone entry but isn't an elite distributor. Malkin QBs more than Letang, but likewise isn't great at it. He's better as a half wall trigger man. The best QB we have had since Gonchar was actually Kessel from the half wall, and he's gone. I expect to see a PP with Karlsson at the top of the umbrella, Malkin (LHS) and Letang (RHS) to either side above the face off dots as trigger men, with Crosby and probably Guentzel down low near the net mouth. Guentzel might be swapped out for Rakell, Smith or even O'Connor for fit. That should be ok
THANK YOU !! I have only been saying this since they signed Tavares. Should have just stayed the course. NO FA's.
In the last 10 years, no team has won more playoff games than the TB Lightning. No team has appeared in more Stanley Cup finals than TB. This generations standard for winning culture is located in Tampa Florida, and they aren't done yet.
The fans are 26% of the problem.
That a low number
For the record, 9:45 you said "The Penguins & Boston Bruins have created the best winning culture in this generation." 🤔🤔
I can agree with Pittsburgh, but Boston!?!? I'm fine with you mentioning Boston but not even including Chicago!?! (who took home 3 Cup's IN 2+ less seasons than PITTSBURGH!!!) Chicago; 3 in 6. Pittsburgh; 3 in 8.
Like, bruh Tampa fans should be pissed too, they've seen much more playoff success "this era" Than the Bruins! And usually I'm the one sh*ting on Tampa fans who think their team is somehow on the same level as what Chicago & Pittsburgh has done "THIS GENERATION". 😅💀
The first round losses make perfect sense. There is no "analytics" that can advance you through the first round. It takes something that can't be measured. HEART, which they are sorely lacking
Lou signed Zaitsev for 7 years x $4.5m after 1 in the NHL season. The leafs had to give their cheap depth in Connor Brown to dump him. Kyle also had to undo Uncle Lou's signing of Marleau by giving up a 1st round pick.
The one key difference between Karlsson/Burns in SJS and Karlsson/Letang in PIT is Sidney Crosby.
Dubas' big mistake in TO was signing Tavares
The problem with your analysis is that you don't control for anything. Was San Jose bad because they had 2 offensive defensemen, or were they bad in spite of them? Prove that, and it will take more than a comment to my post or a 13 minute video just to accomplish that because your video doesn't go anywhere unless you isolate for that.
And your argument also fails because Karlsson was likely recovering from injuries during the last few years - something your very video ignores completely. It's not like Karlsson's power play minutes were low - he had as many as many top players when burns was there and when he wasn't. Even in Karlsson's lowest point total seasons, he still played more than say Mitch Marner and others. That's not exactly warming the bench. He had more than enough opportunities to get Norris consideration/trophies - his injuries were likely the much more limiting factor here, not Burns. This is a fact. Also, San Jose's rebuild state of not making the playoffs probably allowed him to be more risky with his plays as well - the coach likely didn't care anymore and gave him the green light.
Also, there are advantages to having multiple offensive defensemen on your team, especially if injuries and age are a concern. Toronto got destroyed by Florida because they lacked more offensive puck moving defensemen, which is why they got Klingberg and were in on the Karlsson rumours as well. Dubas would also be well-aware of this as this was a major criticism from top coaches around the league.
I think it's fair to say that a lot of the bad decisions Dubas made were probably not made by Dubas alone and Shannahan had a lot to do with it. It's important not just to put sole blame on a GM when you know that organization doesn't give full control to the GM anyway. Toronto hasn't give full control to a GM in quite some time.
Also, shame on you for expecting GMs around the league to predict a global pandemic that usurped cap growth expectations given by the league the year before. Shame on you. That is so dishonest.
Overall, your video is poorly researched and is just click bait, intended to be taken in by the masses who don't think about this that much. But you and I know the truth - this is a poorly researched video and is probably dishonest just to create clicks.
I can't understand how anyone would ever think signing the most notable players will win you championships. Building a competitive team has ALWAYS been about finding the RIGHT person for the position.
Re: Burns & Karlsson: “We already have a George”.
Burns is underrated 2-way player. Man averaged 2 min pk in the Canes.
Hockey is a TEAM sport first and foremost... yes it is nice to have star players, but if you don't have the right people around them it doesn't matter. Toronto and Edmonton have both demonstrated this in recent years. It's not about having two guys or even two lines that can score goals, you also need a solid 3rd and 4th line, solid defense and a good goaltender. If anything, it seems every team making a cup run in recent years has had a goalie who catches fire at just the right time to help carry them... but even a good goalie can't do their job if the defense isn't there to help them out.
ofc the vegas team knew how to manage their money and salary caps
I disagree. Some of those free agent "loses" is because they thought they had a shot at going deep in the playoffs (O'Reilly), and McCann didn't even play a game for them, was only acquired to be taken in the expansion draft so he could keep his other roster players.
could’ve ditched holl and kept mcann was a bad move to let him go
@@3flavourscornetto237 hindsight is 20/20
@@adamjosey1543 everyone thought it was a bad choice right as it happened
@@3flavourscornetto237 it was actually to protect or replace Kerfoot. They were allowed to protect 7 forwards 3 defense 1 goaltender.
@@adamjosey1543 32 thoughts, sdpn, chris johnston all said it was to protect holl
I don't agree with that Vegas analogy. Sure, when they were expansion, they were really deep but that was just by default due to the expansion rules. Since then, they've been major players plucking the big names every year. Stone, Pietrangelo, Eichel, Lehner
Letang and Karlsson are very different and I don't see there being a problem and both of them have expressed they don't see there being any problems
I don't know. I feel like when you have Tavares, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, and Rielly, treading water and giving them a chance in the playoffs every year is the best thing you can do.
Not saying I agree with everything Dubas did in Toronto, but trying to judge his time with the Leafs will always have a massive asterisk due to the fact that the current salary cap is just missing a minimum of $6 million extra dollars that should've been there if it wasn't for Covid... And that's the bare minimum, in reality the number would probably closer to $15m of extra cap.
Tavares and Matthew's are two entirely different players
And yes the cap would have gone up, once in a 100 year event... guess everyone should bet on that happening again
Man the irony in what you just said. It was almost exactly 100 years after the Spanish flu, so yeah it was literally a 100 year event conisiding with the Tavares signing. But the point of this video is that it is absurd to bet your teams future on an external factor you have no control over, and I'm dying on this hill haha
The cap would only go up for the Leafs or for every other team too? Tampa would've swept the Leafs this year if they didn't lose half of their team because of the cap.
@@RG-lr4pk Exactly, I'm a Leafs fan but the argument of "well the cap would've gone up without COVID" - yes it would've for all the other teams too. Other teams would've still out competed the Leafs for depth
Bottom line is everyone knows what the Pens have needed for years now is A)Better Defense B) Steadier Goaltending and C) More Depth.
Karlsson offers them none of those and he ensures they won't be able to acquire A, B or C in the near future.
So I guess they are going with "Scoring Wins Championships".
We shall see.
And rudolfs balcers keep haunting them to this day
I don’t fault him for signing JT. Tavares was one of the top centers in the game at the time and before signing him our top center was Bozak. Tavares has produced at a point per game every year, so I don’t get why his contract is seen an an albatross.
Losing Hymen to the Oilers was a huge L.
The reason it didn’t work out in Toronto is because the core players are so greedy and the salary cap being flat screwed things up big time. Pittsburg has better core players at much lower cap hits and the cap will start going up lots more next year
There are a few really fuckin cold takes here.
1 - there has never been a cup winner without at least a few decent stars on it. So no, depth alone does not win cups. You need depth to compliment stars and good goal tending. End of story.
2. You can not blame Dubas or any other GM for not being able to predict a once in a hundred years pandemic would come along and put a full stop on the salary cap for going on 3 years.
This is all just criticizing from a historical view point with the advantage of seeing how things turned out.
Every single trade or signing or draft pick in the history of sports is just rolling the dice to hope things turn out right.
Toronto was a major bust but I can't place that blame on Dubas at all.
Tampa, Colorado and specifically Vegas, have proved that smart hockey minds can construct well balanced championship caliber teams. This formula has been proven, of course you need stars, Vegas also proved that when they acquired Eichel and signed Petro. But they were the missing pieces. If a guy is being paid millions to roll the dice, then man sports has a way to go
yes its 100% a roll of the dice.
The Bruins just had the best regular season in history and lost to the number 8 seed.
This is literally what makes hockey so great. You don't win the games on paper, you have to actually go out on the ice.
Once its on the ice, even the best team can lose to the worst team. Not sure what else to tell ya here.
@@RobTalksHockey
@RobTalksHockey why u always forgetting about Chicago?
The nerd glasses make it hard to tell. So slappable.
Very good analyses!
You are one of the very few critical about the EK transfer - so am I.
You mention correctly that Dubas gets things done - the question just is - are these good things he got done?
Dubas paid today's money for yesterday's shiny object! I am a firm believer in building teams through the middle starting with the #1 and #2 center and then at least one very solid starter goalie. All alongside 4 plus 20 goals wingers and 4 solid defenders who can skate and support the offense and all work their behinds off when the money is on the table.
I have zero worries about Crosby - what a player and he sincerely deserves all the support for another cup run- but EK ain't it. A top goalie or better puck-moving defenders and some forwards with a little higher footspeed would help a lot.
Did anyone ever wonder why the Sharks got so little in return? Because the market did do its research and the Sharks simply had to let him go for very little, just for the sake of getting rid of him. EK is a genius moving forward - but he is slower than Ovi going backward. I would not be surprised if the Sharks coaching staff told him to just skate forward last season so he makes a million points and not to care about his +/- so he becomes the shiny object. Bedard draft chance in their view...
I am really curious to see how the Penguins will do this season - I just think they are way too slow on all positions. If Chino or Sidney are injured - sayonara Pens...
well. we've seen. they stunk.
i didn't like the ek trade
Dubas rightly predicted that that NHL was moving towards a faster, softer, more skilled game and he experienced a lot of success building a team for that NHL. However, he wrongly believed that the playoffs would mirror the regular season, being faster and softer. Hence his success in the regular season and his lack of success in the playoffs. He is good a building regular season teams with a focus on scoring. Defense and toughness still win playoff series though.
Im a Canucks fan, I hate everything TO...That said our new front office better start start making some smart "hockey" decisions.
Dubas read the back of the movie Money Ball. He told execs that he watched the movie. He lied that day.
Biggest problem with Dubas when he has draft picks he gets long shots vs a guy who could be a plug-in bottom 6D who will be cheap young and defensively responsible.
Can't judge him on players like McCann. He wouldn't be the player he is today if he stayed in Toronto or even Pittsburgh. He would have been buried in the depth chart, a good player, a decent value, but not a first line player getting fifteen points a year on the power play. Had he gone to another team that put him in a third line center role with zero power play time very few people would miss him.
Hi-five your editor. The sound/music placement in this video is phenomenal.
hi-five myself 😎for real though, I appreciate it. I have been working very hard on the music side of my videos
I don't know.
But I think he looks just like Rachel Maddow.
Vegas literally did trade for and sign the best players on the market. Petro was the best D-man to hit the market. Eichel and Stone were the best players on the block when they were traded to Vegas. Barbashev was one of the best centers on the trade block last year. These players would fit well on just about any team in any scheme.
letang is a very different player from burns brother
The maple leafs made a huge mistake firing him
I am not sure why you say Dubas' career in Toronto was unsuccessful. His teams were always near the top of the standings during the regular season. Toronto sold out every home game. The fan base was excited willing to purchase merchandise and show up in the thousands to watch a game outside. From the owners' point of view this was success. So much so they offered him a new contract to "run it again". To the people that owned the team he was a genius at making them money.
Good point! But this video was focused on team success. EA Sports and many companies that struggle with corporate greed, make a boatload of money. I personally don't respect that idea of thinking
I find it funny that the Sharks are still paying Burns and Karlsson to score points for other teams.
he's a better gm than 2/3s of the other morons running teams rn. not sure why he's getting singled out
Two offensive D means you need two stud Ds to cover them. It's why San Jose failed. Ultimately you could have 2 strong power-play units. How often do you feel like your team wasted their power-play as soon as the first unit leaves the ice?
Analytics genius/ not even close. Live by analytics and you’ll never win
You can never win with just star power you need chemistry. Vegas(2017) was a great example of that
Vegas this year to lol
@@antoinepallascio3944 im talking only about Vegas's run in 2017 they looked like a beer leauge team on paper. This year they weren't like that at all
Monday morning coaching on Vegas, saying they did it right because they were successful. Mark Stone could just as easily not been able to play at all this season, jack Eichel might have never recovered from his neck surgery, the wheels might have fallen off Pietrangelo. Well constructed team, sure, in hindsight and only for now as some of those contracts are scary. But this is also a team that won a cup with exactly 1 [ONE!] player that they drafted themselves in the regular lineup. That has NOT been the way in the cap era. Need to see a bit more proof that the Vegas system of ruthless roster change (so long Reilly Smith) sustains a contender better than a blackhawks/lightning/penguins model of solid drafting (and a sprinkle of superstar). Dubas just didn't build a good enough team outside his lottery picks, especially on D where Morgan Reilly is way over-leveraged as top D.
I get questioning having letang n karlsson on the pens. But dubas had 2 fix hextalls blunders. Had to move petry, granlund contacts to give crosby another shot at a cup. I think in any other situation, this move wouldn't have happened. As it is, id rather deal with letang and karlsson than players with the same cap hit that do nothing. Love your content rob!!
Dubas from face value has made much better trades in his short tenure. But fixing another mans mistake with a big bandaid is questionable. At the end of the day though, they want to give Crosby a team and I respect that.
How could he be considered a genius? What has he accomplished?
Heres all that heeds to be said......Expansion draft and he had a choice on which 2 to keep between Kerfoot, Holl, or Jared McCann. DUmBASs decided to not protect Jared McCann who ends ups scoring 40 goals..as much as matthews that year. I wonder if that was the turning point of Leafs future success....By the was Kerfoot and Holl are no longer with the Leafs.
Look spending entirely HALF of the cap on 4 guys is going to leave you with holes. It isnt rocket science.
A smart FO comes at their guys and says "Look, we want to put the best team out there, we will spend every dollar allowed, but if you want solid teammates, we need you to take ($8.75m instead of $10.5, for example)". Its called The Tom Brady Strategy, and it leads to unparalleled success (for anyone not paying attention the last 20+ years)
But hey..Dubas gonna Dubas. Im sure his Jerry Jones "Just Buy" style will continue to work wonders.
Dubas takes part of the blame. The cap hits on their top players were a problem that can be blamed on dubas.
The other part has to do with their tough opponents….. MOST years.
"The Penguins and Boston Bruins have developed the best winning culture this generation"
Penguins, perhaps. Boston though? Look at their playoff record for the last 15 years. They've consistently choked away critical games when they needed to win them the most, aside from 2011 when Vancouver somehow out-choked themselves. And regular season success doesn't exactly paint a generous picture either, after the best season in league history with 65 wins they couldn't make it past the 17th ranked team.
Nobody was celebrating Tampa's culture in 2019 when they tied the league record for wins and lost to Columbus, and for good reason. To say that Boston has a winning culture after all they've put us through for over a decade is just a critical inaccuracy.
Kings fan here, it’s spelled Sean Durzi but is pronounced Derzi, pretty easy to miss honestly
One thing you never mentioned ONCE in this video was that the salary cap after Dubas signed those contracts was immediately flat because of the global pandemic. I'm not saying they were good contracts but the cap would be easily 10-15m more now if the league continued on the path that was expected in 2019, that would have completely changed who they were able to keep and acquire in free agency and I don't think you can blame Kyle Dubas for not predicting this once in a generation pandemic that ruined the cap space. It made those contracts go from not great to absolutely terrible.
I mean yeah this is why I hate that now he's being called a fraud. He's far more intelligent than someone who is literally just using hindsight to say what was good and bad now. He was agm from 2014-2018, he had a major hand in the draft process, he helped build this team, and then he made a gamble in which he never got to see if it would pay off. He's really not a fraud, anyone with a brain knows Shanahan was sckn off JT to come to Toronto as well, everyone was. And for 10 mil, it really wasn't bad until the cap didn't move, and your young players got older. Is that really his fault, guess one could say shouldn't have gambled but I say he went all in with a flush just to get beat by a royal disaster
Pretty obvious the issue is with the way the team was coached. The Leafs needed a respected coach with a winning history, Keefe just cannot get it done.
I respect the Pens for giving it once last charge up the hill. I really do, sadly it will be the charge of the light brigade. Toronto should have traded Marner, now they are stuck. Not many teams want to pay Willy, 10 million. They can wait till the trade deadline. Dubas was hamstrung by the cap, he brought in good players. He wanted to win, that is not a bad thing.
Certainly the most interesting GM
Another great video my guy.