The MASSIVE Problem In Canadian Hockey
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When will we see a Canadian team lift a cup? What Is the Solution?
Never 😂 the solution is to move all the Canadian teams down to the USA
The Nhl would collapse with out the Canadian teams. When the Canadian teams head south they bring the Canadian fans south to watch the games to fill the stands. This is why there is so many back to back games through the Western US swing for the Canadian teams, its keeping these markets alive. @@jakearsenta2144
canadian dollar too weak for Canadian Team to with the cup, so never.
Sens or the habs seem the closet, there teams after rebuild are looking stacked
Contraction: Gary Bettman's worst nightmare and THE word no owner can mention at meetings in Bettman's presence.
Not only have Canadian teams won an MLS title, NBA title, and MLB title more recently than Canadian teams have won an NHL title, American teams have won CFL titles more recently than Canadian teams have won NHL titles. American teams haven't played in the CFL since the mid-90s
Oh man! I forgot about the CFL expanding into the states for a bit!
Has there been another win in MLB since 1992 that I'm unaware of? The last Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup was the 1993 Canadiens.
@@christenandersen65Blue Jays were 1993 World Series champions as well
Just Toronto has own that stuff 😂
@@mattm8108 you're right, I was wrong, sorry.
It’s beyond absurd that Bettman has been Commissioner for 30 years😮
He must be doing something right--30 years a good record and hockey is thriving in all markets, don't hate Americans so much - look at yourself?????
@@terryc.3624profit for owners. That's all that matters as a business. As a fan, there's more important things
Devils advocate: he’s done as much to make hockey matter here in the states and internationally. Yes he is a nebbish with a bad rug. Yes he oversaw the cancellation of one season and truncation of two others. The concussion issues aren’t going away. And his quixotic pursuit of Phoenix looks to be foolishness.
But unlike MLB he worked closely with Don Fehr to come up with a CBA that both the players and owners could live with. The league has expanded in Vegas and Seattle giving them a huge head start over the NBA. The latest TV contracts are a far cry from 1992 when the NHL had to sign a deal with SCA for $5 million the day before the season started. Thats $5 million for all rights. The game is fun to watch, fans are coming out….
As to Canada, why would he have punted on a market like Atlanta to allow Winnipeg back in the game? Another franchise who is thriving.
@@PGar58 and Quebec wouldn’t thrive?
@@terryc.3624 "All markets" Have you seen Arizona's situation?
Living in Quebec City and being old enough to have seen the Nordiques play in the early 90s, I wish the Habs well since it is the only game in town right now. But rest assured that my disposable income doesn't go to buying tickets to watch a hockey game 3 hours away from my hometown. Nor do I spend it on any NHL merchandise, whether it is Habs or legacy Nordiques jerseys for example. And nor will I change my spending habits about it as long as that leprechaun at the top keeps laughing at our market, taking it for granted or believing that we all resigned and converted to being docile, frenzy spending Habs fans. This is not cannibalism since the Bell Centre is always full with waiting lists for season ticket holders, getting a team in Quebec City makes just as much sense financially than putting a second team in the Grand Toronto Area.
I’m an Aussie but I also share your distain for the leprechaun. 30 years and it’s time to bugger off
You would still be market sharing. You are still canibalizing from the same market. While *you* arent spending money, plenty of your neighbors are. Any growth in Canada would be instantly dwarfed by growth in a market like Atlanta or Phoenix. You may attract a few more hockey fans by dropping in a new team (or reviving an old team) but most Canadians either watch hockey or don't, and their opinion is unlikely to change. And I realize hes probably been writing this script for a while, but look at what's happening in Winnipeg. Its a smaller Canadian market and they are fed up with losing and current economics and have the smallest NHL arena (obviously not including Arizona's Mullet Arena as it is not an NHL arena) and is now getting barely above 10k ticket sales.
But yes 30 years is far too long for one person to be in charge.
Quebec should of never lost the team they set it up for Colorado. It was a scam.
Wheres Quebec today. You know they want a third team in Atlanta, again. That's three and no Quebec. I'm all for a Quebec hockey team.
When they talk about having a team in Quebec and another in toronto all they are doing is playing the part.
I don't think the problem is the fanbase, I think the problem is finding the 700 million required for an expansion team. Bettman hasn't relocated many teams and the league makes way more from expansion than it does relocate
Quebec City is larger than Winnipeg. And despite recent attendance troubles the Jets sold out EVERY game between 2010 and 2020. Ten years straight. And Quebec City is LARGER than Winnipeg...
It would be great if the NHL cared about current fans, just a little bit, and not just imaginary new fans
So why give them your money and time? The on ice product amounts to glorified shinny played by millionaires. I can't even watch a game anymore and I grew up at the arena obsessed with the game. It's not the same game I grew up loving. Hockey died a long time ago when they Americanized it imo
3 on 3 is literal garbage
Bettman needs to dig a hole and get inside.
I always say this to people as well and they usually agree but still watch every game.
I have kind of given up on the game and it's fans. You can't cure stupid.
Yup, if only the league had 6 teams again so that Canada, specifically the Canadians, could win more often. The good news is that either way, Toronto, and their grammatically incorrect team (plural of leaf is leaves), would still be a non-factor.
@@TheFatGandalf
Agree w most of your sentiments but a Six team NHL would be even more irrelevant than today.
1993 - the last year a Canadian team won the Cup and the same year Bettman became commissioner. Coincidence?
Nope. Little Napoleon is toxic for the NHL IMHO.
It was literally explained in the video that it wasn’t a coincidence lmao
We can't talk about who he is here without punishment. Plus, people are too brainwashed anyway.
I prefer to blame Justin Bieber since he was born in that offseason and has never seen a Canadian team win
@@anonymous3637Bieber was born a year later in 1994
I'm starting to think that the day Garry Bettman steps down,, a Canadian franchise team will win the Stanley Cup.
how?
@@ciclanociclino266hopfully quits .
How exactly does Bettman prevent Canadian teams from winning? I hear this all the time, but never once hear an actual answer that explains it.
@@alexschneider8494 all sports are rigged, how is that not obvious
Maybe. But it won't be Toronto.
One thing that wasn't mentioned, In the early 90's with the fall of the Soviet Union those players began coming into the NHL. The Russian Five in Detroit winning two cups back to back in the 90's. Now all of a sudden the league is a bit less Canadian.
In order to win Stanley Cups Detroit had to trade several Russian players replacing them with Canadians…that’s when they won a few cups. Yes, they kept five of them. In their cup victories…Canadians won the Conn Smythe Trophy for best players in the playoffs. Almost always, only a few exceptions, the teams that win the Stanley Cup have mostly Canadian players. Look at Vegas for example, 2022 champions with 15 or 16 Canadians. And as I say this I’m talking specifically about players dressed and playing…not watching from the nosebleeds. Even multinational champion teams they have more Canadians than from any other singular country.
@@oldsingingstudentdougbillf1665 Every NHL team is in some weak sense "Canadian", if you go by player nationality.
The Russian five didn't win anything without Steve Yzerman leading the team
@@oldsingingstudentdougbillf1665 LIAR! LIAR!! LIAR!!! In 1993 Detroit had FOUR Russians (Bautin, Fedorov, Konstantinov, & Kozlov). Bautin played only 1 game with 0 points for the Wings & was let go when his contract ended. (FYI Bautin only played 3 seasons 132 games & 30 points in the NHL). In 1997 when Detroit WON the Cup we had FIVE Russians (Fedorov, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Kozlov, & Larionov) - the famous Russian Five! Detroit NEVER had to get rid of any Russian to win! We did not need more Canadians, what we needed was the Russian Five plus a Swede - Nicklas Lidstrom. Go back and check your FACTS!
Most Canadian NHL teams are half Canadian born the rest are Yanks and Euros...good for the US teams ---LV Tampa--great fans..
Gary Bettman. That's how. You think it's a coincidence that a Canadian team hasn't won since his first year as commissioner?? Canadian teams get screwed over by the officiating every single year in the playoffs. Yes, it happens to everyone from time to time but for Canadian teams? It happens constantly. Look at what happened the last time Toronto could have made it to the finals. Look at the Montreal/Vegas series where the refs were straight up trying to get Vegas to win the series in any way they could. Look at Edmonton getting absolutely screwed throughout the entire Anaheim series (including the tying goal which was clearly goaltender interference). Look at Calgary getting screwed in the finals where they CLEARLY scored a goal in game 7, but for some reason it was declared not a goal. Why the hell does Wes Mcauley ref every important Toronto game despite having an obvious conflict of interests? Bettman does not want a Canadian team winning. Simple as that.
Lol
Also most Canadian teams have been horrible managed over the last 20 years and whiffing on a lot of draft picks
Poor drafting (yakupov, virtanen, juolevi) and godawful management (the Oilers (late 2000s to mid 2010s), Leafs (mid 2000s to mid 2010s) and Canucks (early 2010s to early 2020s) Dark ages for example. And it looks like the Oilers might head back to the basement if they cant improve enough to convince McDavid and Drai to stay. Canucks need a miracle to become a contender after benning truely screwed us. And flames are looking like their future is bad as well. Even though Canadian teams didnt win in the 2000s. It was a golden age of (semi competitiveness) sorts with Oilers, Flames, Canucks and Sens all making the finals.
@@codybromley6906 IDK about horrible Canucks management in the 2010's. They did win more games than any other team in the league.
@@codybromley6906The run that the Canucks had in 2020 in the playoffs was pretty magical, but it may have been the worst thing in hindsight. It made us fans think we had a shot and stopped any potential rebuild. Those contracts Benning did were do bad. It's crazy the Canucks have gotten off to such a good start this year. I hope they are not just teasing us
That sums it up pretty darn good. Imagine the Leaf's getting Mathews then turning around and wasting 10 million on a geriatric from the Islander (Tavares) and trading a 2 million dollar player who walked away with a cup (Kadri).
Not like it matters. Even if you do draft well they will eventually walk, since they only care about money. Look at Gaudreau and Tkachuk.
Sadly for the hurricanes it’s true that success has brought the fans back. But I think the fact that the team was scrapping the bottom barrel for awhile makes it hard to keep hardcore interest. I’m a diehard hurricanes fan and I live nearby and I can say the fan base has really grown and I think it’s here to stay.
It also helps that our team is run competently now. Not only are we built to win now. But we have a strong prospect pool and truly built this team from the ground up. It’s been an amazing thjng to be apart of
Did the Canes winning a Stanley Cup albeit back in the mid 00’s help cement the team into the community at all?
@@zachhoward9099 It made them popular at the time but they were soon forgotten when the team was bad again. The reason the Canes are so popular is because Raleigh is full of transplants running from the high taxes and cost of living in New York and they have all brought their love of hockey with them. Its the same reason Canada will never be successful in Hockey again. High taxes and government regulation kill all growth and success and force people to get out.
@@daviddavis6975Go woke goes broke 😂
@@zachhoward9099Raleigh low-key has a huge Northern transplant population. Most of my neighbors were rooting against the Canes back then. I think the Canes have found an actual identity now.
Most Canadians with a home hockey team didn’t see Gary Bettman’s memo that read: As of 1994, there will be no more Canadian clubs winning the Stanley Cup.
I mentioned this to some Winnipeggers and their reply “I still rather have a team than no team.”
To your point about the Canes… yes the success of our team has brought a lot of new fans, but exactly 6 years ago, when we really started to peak, is when we changed ownership to Dundon and Waddell, and hired RBA as our coach. They have made marketing this team a priority with the introduction of the storm surge, the social media campaigns, etc. It’s not just because we’re good, and I believe a lot of our new fans will stick around even long after our window closes.
Your subway analogy seems great on paper. However, when teams like Edmonton and Calgary exist, and the league markets their rivalry as the “battle of Alberta”, I can’t see why they wouldn’t do the same for Quebec City and Montreal.
The anti QC talk is always just stupid. TVAsports want to own the team, that automatically means it'll be airing throughout the province of Quebec. RDS and TVA split Habs rights. There is no MLB/NFL/NBA in Quebec. When the habs aren't playing the TV's aren't on. You can't say Quebec is saturated by the habs when each network gets 41 games a year.
Agreed. But I’m referring to the modern day. Edmonton and Calgary came into the league decades before Bettman and their emphasis in growing the US. If only one team existed in Alberta, they would be in the same position as QC
Molson doesn't want any competition in his market .... the montreal Canadians are a tourist attraction for the province... no reason to be good when you have ppl coming from all corners of the province to see them play ...
The NHL did promote the Quebec/Montreal games as the Battle of Quebec. If you search on CZcams for the "Good Friday Massacre", you'll find that the NHL channel promotes it as a classic NHL game. For the uninitiated, the Cliff's notes version is at the end of the second period, there was a bench-clearing brawl. The ref's get everything sorted out and after the teams come out for the third period, there is another bench clearing brawl before the start of the third period. Old-time hockey at it's finest 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@roclenoir3202 You can only fit 20,000 into the Bell Centre. Centre Videotron would also be full.
I'll never understand the North-of-Mexico idea of one-team-per-city/province, etc. way of thinking.
An interesting thing to note. Last years cup finals saw the lowest TV viewership by far in over 10 years. Canadian fans are loosing interest in watching the playoffs when every year we only see one or two Canadian teams in the playoffs and they all seem to be eliminated in the first or second round. The lack of Canadian viewership in the playoffs in starting to eat away at profits. Canadian fans cant be ignored forever. Add to that (as a an oilers fan) it seems the one thing all Canadian teams can agree on is that we seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to officiating in the post season versus American teams. The Leaf's and Oilers both seem to have far more questionable calls and decisions go against them than for them in the post season to the point where its hard not to have a bit of a tinfoil hat. It makes watching American teams win a cup far less enjoyable. At some point things will have to change because Betman is slowly loosing Canadian fans, which are still the largest source of revenue for the league.
While both the TV deal and average ticket prices are clearly better in Canada. What I found online places that estimate closer to 1/3rd, and this was from a Canadian source arguing for more teams in Canada.
I wish you'd all get the espn coverage there. It's hilarious to hear them openly bash the crappy Toronto hockey media.
“Rig it for the Canadian teams please”
Haven't watched a game since the '04 lockout. My wallet has been happier ever since.
@@SnowmanTF2 "While both the TV deal and average ticket prices are clearly better in Canada." Hey genius didn't you pay attention POINT 5 at 12:40 death and taxes?? I'm a working canuck in South Florida. I watch Panthers games the glass 10 FEET from me and I pay $45. I go home to Vancouver, I have to pay $300 CDN for Canucks tix at rinkside. Explain to me again, how is that "better in prices"?
I can guarantee ya that toxic media and environment makes things worse. Ryan oreilly and Luke schenn signing in Nashville says it all. I actually spoke recently to schenn and asked him what he thinks of the media here in Nashville vs Toronto. “Night and day” was his response. The people of Nashville love bottom feeder players and embrace em like top 6 players all the time. All players want is to be loved just a bit with the media and fans.
I'm thinking that it's because USA identity does not hinge on hockey, but in Canada it really does... as in, if a player in Canada is not overall terrific, or plays disappointingly, it would, to Canadian hockey fans, reflect poorly on Canada and national morale of Canadian fans as a whole, whereas in the USA, they're still major league players and their success or failure does not cause nationalistic distress. The individual player is just a ripple in the pond here, not a national icon. As in, "this guy has a cool job! Let's take a picture with him! I wish I knew how to skate"
Thrashers moved because they didn't have an arena, not lack of fan support. Yes, support could have been stronger if they had more success. Other teams had less attendance then and are still in those cities. I'm glad Winnipeg got a team again but also find it perplexing that they are constantly trashed for existing.
They moved because of poor attendance, which caused the owners debt to rise and they bailed. The owners were also examples of people who bought an NHL team to make money, not because they cared about the sport
@@RobTalksHockeyNot gonna lie though, I’m seeing a lot of excuses for places like Buffalo and Winnipeg for their awful attendance due to “lack of performance” while the same grace was not extended to Atlanta who had a bottom 10 team in the standings for 11/12 years with the Thrashers.
Because they actually had a record of success.@@ErrisOfficial
Winnipeg doesn’t exist 😂😂
@@RobTalksHockey This is laughably false. The owners had debt because they were in court due to all the infighting. The court battle between Atlanta Spirit and Steve Belkin lasted roughly six years, and shortly after the Thrashers were sold to Winnipeg, the remaining owners then had to settle a separate lawsuit with an Atlanta law firm, King and Spalding.
If you don't know what actually happened for some reason, that's fine. There are tons of news reporting out there that'll tell you that information.
Can confirm on the leafs fan base. As a devils fan living in WNY, it's shocking to see so many leafs jerseys at nj vs. Buf games just to root against the sabres
You seen the waiting lists for Toronto games? It's the only way most of them can see games
They are a virus….
The Devils are crazy good.
@@seanstoica6301not to mention tickets are half as much and you can probably get a way better seat than you could in TO. TO also needs to get rid of the majority of the corporate owned seats and make them available to general public. You watch a Leafs game, look in the stands. Half the people are wearing suits and looking at their phones I swear.
Makes sense tbh Toronto is super close to Buffalo and leafs games are way more expensive also those Canadians who live closer to Buffalo than Toronto are gonna go to there
As a Chicago Cubs fan, I can tell ya that a media company owning the Habs is a big reason why they’ve struggled the last ten years. The tribune owned the Cubs for decades. It took until they sold the team to actually win something.
Go Cubs Go! ❤🐻⚾
Molson's own the HABS Bell sponsors as does Air Canada.
A bit of history is necessary here. In 1966 the NHL went from the original 6 to 12 teams. it was assumed that one of the new teams would be in Vancouver. It was therefore a real shock when all 6 new teams were in the United States. In 1968 when it became clear that the Oakland-California Seals, LaBatt Brewery offered to buy the team and move it to Vancouver. That resulted in a firestorm lead by the Toronto Maple Leafs using all sorts of dumb excuses to prevent this action. The real reason was the CTV-CBC television rights. Toronto wanted it all for themselves. However Vancouver finally got their team in 1970 and the NHL along with 5 other teams, all US. The to Canada was, no need to apply.
In March 1979 the NHL set a vote on admitting Winnipeg, Edmonton, Quebec (and Hartford). Once again the Toronto Maple Leafs led the opposition to this. In the vote that followed the vote was defeated by just one vote. In a press conference held right afterwards then NHL President mentioned his surprise that while almost all the US teams vote for their admission, all three CANADIAN TEAMS VOTED NO. That included the Montreal Canadians who had thought that this would be a secret ballot with no one knowing how they would vote.
In a massive show of national unity, people in Alberta, Manitoba and Quebec started a massive boycott of Molsons Brewery, the owner of the Montreal Canadians who had never thought that their vote would be against their admission. THE VERY NEXT DAY facing crippling massive losses Molsons pleaded with John Ziegler for a new vote. Toronto threatened legal action to prevent such a vote, but John Ziegler was able to get one done anyway and that is how Winnipeg, Edmonton and Quebec got in. The point is the teams in Canada are the major reason why so few teams from Canada are in the NHL
3 of the 4 teams in the Semi-finals in 2023 were teams that operate in States that do not collect State income Tax. Quebec is the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America. The Habs try to work with this by offering contracts that are heavily biased towards bonuses as opposed to salary, to reduce the tax payable for the Player. However, this comes back to bite them if the player does not live up to expectations or is on permanent LTIR and then they have very unfavourable terms to buy out the contract. Canuck fans will be reminded of this for several years to come with the Ehkman-Larsson buyout, now that they have just recently gotten over paying Loungo's salary retention.
With an uneven playing field like this, could the solution be to allow Canadian Teams a higher Salary Cap? What a tangled web that creates...
Add to the tax imbalance other attractions to play in the States, such as anonymity away from the rink, driving a Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari to work in 70 degree weather, dating Cali/Texas/FLA Girls...I don't see a Stanley Cup parade on St. Catherines, Young St, Robson St, etc, in the foreseeable future.
Salary caps should be based on net salary (post taxes) not rough salary (pre taxes)
Good suggestion, however...that would involve access to personal information, so the NHLPA and other privacy concerns would nix that. Leveling the playing field has always been a challenge in life as well as sport.@@Jet-ij9zc
I wrote a letter to Gary years ago telling him the games needed to be on a major network. He wrote back saying the model is for cable. Yes, some games are on NBC, but when the playoffs come, the NBA has more coverage. I try to watch the Panthers on Bally Sports and they'll have a basketball game on instead. You basically have to go looking for the games. If the Panthers are on Bally Sports, it's only because all the other Florida teams are not playing.
Luckily the NBA is looking into Montreal and Vancouver
Great video. My parents were midwestern, hardcore NFL/college football fans. Moved to LA in the mid-late 80s and suddenly hockey was on our tv several nights a week. Everyone wanted to check out this Gretzky guy. Totally agree he put hockey on the map for a lot of Americans. Moved to Vegas in the 90s and thought my hockey watching days were over, little did I know…
My hubby was born and raised in Washington and I’m from SoCal, and we met in almost 8 years ago. Everyone around here is into football, and the number 12 is everywhere! *(It’s even on the side of a mountain!!!)*
But, I got him into watching hockey and now he won’t miss a game, and football’s boring 😉 *I LOVE MY HUBBY!!!* 🥰😘❤️❤️❤️ #GoKingsGo
This video does a great job of explaining why I no longer have an interest in hockey.
And sports betting totally seals that deal.
Its hard to believe games arent fixed when you see the reffing. Why get invested in a league where money is the only thing that matters.
And these bed online stuff to are out of hand.
@@matthewgregory8218 What the heck are you trying to say here?
@@myronachtman4304 Whew. Thank you for questioning that. I'm old, and I thought I was losing my mind when I read it.
Yep, I haven't watched in well over a decade. And judging by the results I occasionally see on tv, much happier for it.
Another factor you missed was the value of the dollar. Also a couple of corrections, the Nordiques didn't move because they weren't successful, they moved because the league (among other parties) were having problems with the owner and Bell doesn't own the Habs the Molson family does.
When you continuously flood the country for over a decade with people from places that have only ever seen ice at the bottom of a drink glass, you sort of dilute your hockey fan base with a bunch of people who'd rather watch a soccer game or 'football match' if you will. That and nobody can afford to go to games anymore.
Then you have two of the worst and most hated fan bases in the NHL (Canucks & Oilers) being from Canada. Yeah, it's kind of a mess up there...but being a former Calgarian, nothing brought more joy to me in hockey lately than tonight. Thank-you Florida for shutting up every Oilers fan for at least a couple of minutes. 😂
The high stick by Wayne Gretzky against Doug Gilmore right in front of Kerry Fraser that he somehow missed so instead of Gretzky being out of the game there wasn’t even a penalty called and Gretzky scored the game winner in game 6
Football had a guy named Tom Brady, he had Gretzky privilege as well
Couldn't have an all canadian final , that just won't do lol .... Completely fixed ...
Players don’t want to play in cold climates, in a game played on frozen water
@@johnziegelbauer4999rigged llike elections and taxes.
Imagine plying all your life in winter hockey and getting an offer to play in Florida or L.A.
The NHL might kill the Golden Goose. The Golden Goose is the Canadian hockey culture which ultimately leads to elite Canadian players. It has already destroyed the world's biggest elite hockey player pipeline - Quebecois players.
Have we already reached the point of no return? Explicit stats of the annual draft shows less and less Canadian players in higher and lower rounds.
Everyone in quebec is disinterested in hockey because of the last few mediocre years. It is under Martin Saint-Louis that things will change
Bahahha Quebec sucks! None of the best players come from there. Get a grip
@@shuki1It's an inevitable takeover. I have been talking about this for over 20 years but the biggest problem by far is the complete indifference by Canadians. Canadians are an incredibly passive people whose game has been taken away from them right before their eyes. Where is the concern in the Canadian media? Everyone just wants to keep their jobs so they stay quiet and don't criticize Bettman or the NHL.
@@ScentsofStyle99tell me you don't live in Canada without telling me you don't live in Canada
1. Geoff Molson is the owner of record of the Montreal Canadiens.
2. The taxes assume that players are regular employees like someone punching a time card. They are contract entertainers who probably get compensated by their own overseas registered private corporations. We have no idea what their effective tax rate is.
Great Video Rob, glad to see your channel's success, did not realize you're almost at 100k, I think I still remember your first videos introducing yourself. Keep up the great work man!
I'd be surprised if the NHL returned to Atlanta. It would be like the failure of the NBA returning to Charlotte: general apathy and ownership that has no idea what they're doing.
People underestimate greatly the effects in the NHL of local taxes, weak Canadian dollar, the capped era, Canadian city size, the constant media and fan attention or in some cases the death of pre-junior/junior hockey, among other things.
No way in hell, that a Canadian team can compete with states like Florida for a player without overpaying them unless they are a local kids.That reality normally wouldn’t bother big Canadian markets but there is a cap, so by over paying they screw themselves no matter what.
When it comes to new teams in Canada, a 2nd in Toronto, or London/Hamilton or St-John or Quebec city … the cities sizes are a potential problem, not a problem to full an arena but for TV rights, because they mostly already are NHL products consumers since they are obviously all already sharing a market unlike the Jets or potentially St-John which is obviously too small. Small markets also means not a lot of extremely wealthy people to throw money at a project, the weak Canadian dollar also heavily diminishes that list to probably a few names, because everything in the NHL is in USD.
Finally a little rant about my province Quebec in hockey development, where is all the players we used to create/develop ? Not so long ago we could hypothetically of created teams that could rival the ROC, the USA or Russia, with historically top goaltenders, goal scorers and defensemen, what the fuck happened ?
What is this St John you keep speaking of.
I meant Halifax, my poutine filled french canadian brain somehow mixed the two together ! Ahahaha
To be fair, the people from Saint-John’s, Newfoundland and Saint-John New-Brunswick would probably be fans to an Halifax team over Montreal any day of the week.
Thanks for point it out !
A second team (even second and third team) in the GTHA/KW area is probably the only expansion into Canada that would carry no risk for the NHL.
Then why does florida suck for most of its history if canadian teams can compete with them????
You're on glue ffs
Winnipeg not selling more than 10k is a bad harbinger. If you want Canadian teams, support them.
I think a symptom of the NHL problems in Canada is the situation at Scotiabank Area, the home of the Toronto Maple Leafs. The *VERY* high price of the lower section seats in hockey configuration has (according to many people) priced out the more serious fans of the Maple Leafs and it has become the province of corporate _bigwigs_ and their clients, which are using those lower section seats more to conduct business than to cheer on the Maple Leafs. As such, the home environment for the Maple Leafs are *NOT* conducive for the Maple Leafs to play hard. Maybe it's time to reconfigure Scotiabank Arena for more corporate suites so the more passionate fans of the team can seat in the lower section seats for a change.
Give Canadian teams a tax benefit on their salary cap to help normalize it. But they wouldn't do that because this helps grow the American side.
That gets too complicated because then every American team with a state income tax will then want the same treatment, and their tax rates vary from state to state. Then teams will start citing the economic barriers they face in individual cities... it's a Pandora's Box you can't open.
@@bigdgoridersThey just need to do it based purely on federal income tax. Only reason american teams wouldn't want to do this is because it gets rid of a major advantage they have.
@willfeider2743 again, all of the states who have state income tax will also want an altered cap. And state income taxes differ from state to state as well. For that matter, provincial income taxes in Canada also vary from province to province. You would end up with an NHL where almost every team essentially plays by different cap rules.
You also pay the tax of the stadium you play in so it's not as big of an issue as you think
@@wrocha514 the building and salary cap are two different things though. Canadian teams have to overpay players due to taxes which affects how competitive they can be under the same cap as a country that has less income tax.
Would you ever do a deep dive on goaltending in Canada and why we don't produce top tier goalies anymore?
Strangely enough, Finland produces lots of goalies, even though their population is only 5 million.
Price, Fleury, Hart, Levi, just cause the game has grown internationally doesn't men we don't still have elite players too, just Like the NFL and NBA, Used to be very few or no colored quarterbacks and the best NBA player is Serbian
Id argue that Price and Fleury are from a different era the other two are still unproven, from Quebec alone we had Brodeur, Roy, Luongo, Turco, Thibault, Theodore, Biron, Potvin, Giguere, Crawford, Lalime, Bernier, Fiset and Garon, probably dozens of others i forgot in the late 80’s to around 2010. Then the legends started to retire little by little with barely any new comers picking up the torch.
Now whats Quebec top 2 goalies Fleury thats a few months from retiring and Montembeault ?
That’s only 1 province.
@@benoitrobitaille5235 Kuemper, Binnington, Reimer, Skinner, Ingram, Murray, some are on bad teams but the 3 have won a cup and they are all extremely talented, also Sebastian Cossa is a beast at 20, Matthew Kieper is 19, Hunter Jones 23, Nico Daws 22, Tyler Brennan 20, Carson Bjarnason 18, Ty Levy 17, Luke Cavallin 22, Marco Costantini 21, there's still lots of young talent coming up
@@benoitrobitaille5235 Levi is from Quebec and better then Montembault
Lower bowl tickets in Tampa are not $90, they're usually starting at $225
I remember a Bay Street guy analyzed southern Ontario and found support for about +3 franchises just as profitable as the Leafs. Idk if there's some quirk in the data, but common sense says that if Chicago can support two successful ball clubs, the GTA could house at least one more hockey franchise. There's the loss-leader long-game, but there's also cashing in long and hard.
People can laugh all they want about generation profit, but until Matthews and Marner came along, and the Leaf Fans acting like they have one hand already on the cup, the Saskatchewan Roughriders sold the most professional fan gear of any pro team in Canada, for the previous 25 plus years.
Fans have Not stopped buying Riders gear, they have just bumped up Leaf gear purchases to finally exceed the Roughies.
In terms of fan numbers, the Habs are double the Roughriders, with the Leafs coming a close third.
Excellent video, and a good analysis of the problem. Back in the 80s and early 90s, Edmonton, Calgary and Montreal all won cups. The Montreal-Quebec rivalry was a great one. The salary and tax differences have always been there, but unrestricted free agency has probably hurt Canadian teams the most, because it gives players much more freedom to choose a market that's congenial, thus handing an additional advantage to places like Florida. Still, I would like to see the Cup back in Canada some day.
Free agency while needed 20 years ago as team owners had the advantage has now gone the other way. US teams generally can pay more and then there is the fact that many players have no trade agreements as regards Edmonton and Winnipeg due to weather concerns for their families. Maybe time to form a Canadian Hockey League and forget the NHL. Consider that our teams have to deal in US dollars, some states have low or no state income tax.
Yes, a move to a Canadian only league would mean a huge defection of the big stars to the US but the way the Canadian dollar is headed down vs the US could mean a move of one or more to the south anyway.
Just like the CFL is second to the NFL, it may be time to do the same with hockey.
The threat of a Canadian hockey league might be enough for buttman to finally pull his head out of his ass. Canada generates immense moolah for the NHL and the league cant afford to lose those teams.
This argument that players can make more money in the US is a myth that people need to stop mindlessly spreading. All players get paid in USD even if they play in Canada, the tax differences aren't that different in most states vs Canada (outside of the states such as Texas and Florida that don't have a state income tax) and as an example, Alberta has a lower income tax than many US states. Player agents have spoken about this, financially players don't make substantially less in Canada.
The league is also full of Canadian players, this argument that most players hate Canadian cities is bullshit. Some may prefer playing with less pressure in a small US market, but that isn't the reason Canadian teams haven't won a cup since 1991. The teams are just horrendously managed and are seemingly all against doing full scale rebuilds no matter how god awful their rosters are.
@@BasePuma4007
Well I’m in total disagreement with all you’ve said. Yes the players get paid in US dollars which are a deal when living in Canada but even the Wpg media reports that many players save raw rookies have a no trade list that has Edmonton and Wpg at the top. Yes I know the Sheif and Connor resigned as they got the contracts they wanted. So, where does that leave the signings next year with some of the players due to become restricted or non restricted free agents. And with the Canadian dollar at -.30 American it’s a drain on revenues. Granted the Chipmans have deep pockets and hopefully will continue but should our dollar go any lower ??? I’m 83 and grew up in Mb and saw many sports franchises both major and minor leagues
go down in The Peg. Remember the Triple A Whips baseball, WHA hockey teams 2 times, Basketball, Soccer. Even in the days when the Moose were the only pro team in the 90s-2000s they drew only mediocre crowds.
Sorry Wpg your trying to play in the bigs when your lot is minor league at best.
@@DavidMScott-cs8pp Well, I think the primary reason for Edmonton and Winnipeg being unwanted destinations is largely due to how cold they are in the winter (Chris Pronger left for that reason, so did Gretzky). Calgary is a bit better weatherwise than Edmonton and a lot better than Winnipeg, and seems to attract more free agent talent - they signed Blake Coleman (from Texas) and Markstrom recently. Calgary is also a larger city, and I believe it is a nicer place to live overall than Edmonton or Winnipeg. Ottawa is honestly not that interesting of a city, and is not very big. That leaves the other big three: Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal, all of which are nice cities to live in if you're wealthy, but as I mentioned, some players dislike the pressure of those markets, especially Montreal and Toronto. I think the whole premise of this video is silly, frankly. There is huge hockey interest in Canada, lots of money to be made in merchandise, ad revenue, ticket sales, and other sponsorships. The future success for the NHL in Canada as a business is not up in the air, this video is just mindless CZcams filler in my mind.
Another thing to consider; there is less live sports competition in Canada than there is in the US, so the US based American teams have a higher incentive to build contending teams that will captivate fans and generate more merchandise sales and better TV ratings. This is most notable with Vegas, where they are extremely demanding in their players and coaches about winning a cup and being competitive because there is so much live performance/entertainment competition in Vegas. That kind of rigorous motivation to be a contender does not exist with any of the Canadian franchises, hence why so many Canadian GMs seem content with maintaining teams that may make the playoffs here and there, but lose in the first round if they do make it. They don't want to commit to a rebuild (because that will cut into revenues), but they don't care if the on-ice product is disappointing or boring. They don't compete with anything else and hockey will always be of interest in Canada. It took the Flames ownership group half a decade to finally commit to a rebuild in the early 2010s, Vancouver has been a bad team for the last decade because they also never wanted to commit to a rebuild, Toronto and Edmonton were in the same boat for about a decade as well. Plenty of free agents sign in Canada, Calgary was voted "the most livable city in North America" by The Economist writers in 2022, Toronto and Montreal are major culture and entertainment hubs, and Vancouver is one of the more beautiful cities in the world. It's not that players don't want to live in Canada, most of Canada's major cities are very nice places to live.
If the NHL is going to evolve the sport of Hockey into a full global sporting industry with Soccer, MLB, NBA, NFL etc there is zero room for small market team such as Winnipeg, Ottawa, Calgary etc. These smaller sports markets offer the League very little in terms of viewership appeal in the US and cant generate the Revenue, from all sources, to keep pace with the accelerating value of the Franchises and the costs of maintaing competitive franchises. Its no longer just about Bums in the seats. The future of Sports is about partnership with Gambling, TV Revenues, and the maximum number eyeballs in front of the Sport.
"Its no longer just about Bums in the seats." finally someone else gets it.
Garys big concern for growth is within the television viewing market. When it comes time to put broadcasting rights up for bid, adding Quebec City to the current market pool doesn't add near as much viewing power than Atlanta
Let’s point out the obvious. Bettman isn’t the reason why the Vancouver Canucks lost two Game 7’s in Stanley Cup finals. However, to build on your thoughts, I would add 2 teams in Toronto metro area and 1 more in Montreal. Even though those areas could support more teams, the Maple Leafs and Canadiens would block those ideas. Whether we like it or not, Bettman works for the owners and is doing what they want.
We really need to manage the tax situation, why would a player want to play in Canada and give up a large chunk of their salary. We are constantly going to lose generational players the longer this continues
So true
And yet AustOn and Connor McJesus continue to stick around with the teams that drafted them.
Alberta taxes are solid and auston is loyal to the team like kobe I guess. his contract is up there not like mcdavid but getting paid good @@SGBassplayer
here's the thing: this is not up to the NHL to fix
Why would a player not chase the money in the US then live like a king back in Canada
If you’re fed up with the state of the NHL. Stop watching and buying shit. It’s not hard Canadians.
Hockey is OUR game, we eat, drink and breath hockey. Even with our much smaller population we produce more hockey players. The problem is we haven't won a Cup since Buttman became commissioner. With the online and in game gambling brought in by Buttman, the games are being officiated to suit the gamblers NOT the actual hockey fans. Teams will win according to Buttman's plans.
Canada's best chance at winning a Stanley Cup is to have one of our teams rebrand themselves as the Mississippi Turtles, or maybe the Alabama Southerners.
I am an American hockey fan ( NY Islanders), who favors putting an expansion team in QC or Hamilton, Ontario.Why? They will support a team unlike Atlanta ( who one year did not sell out World Series games). Houston or Salt Lake City are places that make sense however. One problem going forward for Canada and hockey are the demographic changes. Soccer and basketball are more popular sports for kids in areas like Toronto ( not to mention the inexpensive cost to play those sports ( particularly compared to hockey when rents are high in places like Toronto). Throw in immigration to areas like Vancouver ( along with the rents) and you have a problem. Is all lost? No not at all. Lots of players still love playing in Canada. Look at Austin Matthews. He is an American, yet he signed for 4 more years in Toronto. Domi took LESS money to go to Toronto when he was a free agent.
I think it would be interesting if the league could figure out a way to get around the issue of tax variance between countries and states to mitigate that issue for players' desire to play in Canada.
But i do think that the increased spotlight and pressure from the media and fans on players of Canadian teams is always going to be a factor for players preferring to play in the US.
The salary cap should allow for the difference in tax and should adjust with the CDN $ versus the US $. That would be fair.
The salary cap was by design, as well as bias referees, to make profits in the U.S. Even if a Canadian team does well in the playoffs, they know bad officiating will take them out. And the Canadian team players? Know they'll make more money losing as success in the U.S. will raise the Cap, which will lead to bigger profits than if they won.
It’s actually not as big of a deal as you think. There is a thing called a retirement compensation arrangement that any decent tax planner can set up to help players walk around that issue in Canada.
@@samalexander5236the players should not need to deal with that, the main issue is the salary cap.
It's actually quite simple. They balance team incomes with transfer payments so they could apply the same methodology to salaries. Have a higher salary cap for Canadian team to cover the extra cost of our devalued dollar and tax burden.
But you'll never see that happen so long as Canadian teams remain profitable. Because any team money spent on a higher salary cap for Canadian teams to level the playing field would take away from Bettman's give away's to unprofitable teams in the US. So don't expect a Canadian team to be able to keep it's talent and win a cup under the current system.
Also, so long as the poorer owners keep receiving handouts from the league to the detriment of the more profitable teams (see Canadian and Original 6) they'll keep Bettman in power.
The commissioner is a figure that seems to be universally hated in all of the US pro sports leagues. I wonder who's the most hated: Bettman, or Goodell.
Many agents have come out and said the taxes thing is way overblown. With the numerous tax incentives it's very easy for a player in Canada to come out with similar taxes as one in the US
The humourous part in all of this is: some (not all) Canadian fans with an NHL team know Gary Bettman doesn’t want a Canadian team to ever win another Stanley Cup. These knowledgeable fans will still pay outrageous ticket prices plus insane prices for beer and hotdogs that they can barely afford hoping to prevent their team from relocating to say, Houston, Salt Lake City, Atlanta (again), etc.
Take Winnipeg for example: this season so far, home attendance has been averaging 11,250 in an arena with a capacity of 15,004. That’s around 78% of capacity, a money losing corporation. If the co-owner David Thomson wasn’t worth $57 B CDN, this team is in serious jeopardy of relocation.
The nordiques (and Habs) do attract fans from everywhere in the province, not just from the city
True dat. When you talk hockey in Canada, you gotta look beyond metro areas
I moved down for work to Silicon Valley from BC a few years back ... Sharks scores come on the news channel down here after highschool football numbers ... and normally are the last thing mentioned before a happy story of a goat in pajamas. Thing is the weather is great, nobody will harass you on the street, AM radio doesn't care, there is absolutely no pressure to perform and you are paid serious bank. Why the hell would you want to play in a place where you are yelled at when at the Safeway or have 24/7 radio calling for your trade if you have an off game. As Rob said, the owners don't care about the product, because win or lose Canadian fans will show up. So if owners don't care, and players like it down south, what can be done to make a Canadian Stanley Cup Team?
I'm some areas in and around Atlanta, the NHL blackouts games from Nashville Carolina and Florida....., make that make sense to grow a game. Also you can't access two of those teams on any cable packages
Up until this year, VGK games were only accessible on a channel you had to have DirectTV to get. As a result I didn't get to watch my local team for all that time without going to a casino's sportsbook. Thankfully this year, they got a new deal with an air channel. Streaming through the app is $70/season since like most people we don't use air channels, but at least I can finally watch the games. Seats all throughout have had big price tags too. Terrible way to grow a fan base. But I was a fan of the sport for 25 years when the team started out so I was gonna watch anyway as long as there was a way.
I envision that within five years, the Flames will be back in Atlanta. In Canada, hockey is becoming unaffordable for mid-size markets, especially where the corporate clientelle is negligible.
I agree 100% Jets back to Atlanta as the Thrashers and Flames to Portland.
You just have to see how was reacting Gary Bettman when he announced the move to the Jets. The dude was riled up at the press conference in Winnipeg and basically threatened the fanbase to better show and buy tickets or else. Not this year, the attendance is down in Winnipeg and already the question arise : will winnipeg keep his team. It's fucking ridiculous..
Yeah Winnipeg has crowds in the 13,000 and we are hearing rumblings of the Jets leaving!? Absolute BS. Now that the Coyotes are playing in a Junior hockey arena, no one in charge in the NHL can ask any other team for bigger crowds. Gary re-wrote the rulebook for Phoenix and this will now apply to any other city. Winnipeg is safe.
@@bl8782 I'm not saying they're valid. I'm saying i've already seen multiple piece of media about the low attendance for the Jets and what it means. And the book isnt the same everywhere. Phoenix is part of the 6th largest television market in the US. It doesn't matter if they got asses in their seat, Bettman will die trying to make it work there. Same reasons why the NHL want to have a third look at Atlanta.
“And this will apply to any other city” oh that’s cute you believe that
I wouldn't be surprised to see Arizona Coyotes wind up in Houston next season. Largest North American city without the NHL. Arizona Coyotes is an eyesore that the NHL doesn't need. They shouldn't be playing in a college arena, and Houston is ready with an NHL caliber arena. Salt Lake City will likely get an expansion team.
@@wayneanderson7852 they should’ve been in Houston 5 years ago. Bettman wants to keep Arizona from moving & have Houston as team 33. Winnipeg might get moved at this point while they keep Arizona put
7:55: The Coyotes are playing in a 5,000 seat college arena temporarily by plan until a new 15,000 seat arena is built. This is a totally bogus comparison. Their average attendance in the last year at their previous arena was 11,600. That 15,000 attendance for that minor league team would vanish if an NHL team comes to town.
More points = more attendance. Shocking revelation 😂
I think there would be plenty of butts in those seats if Quebec came back to the NHL. I'm no market analyst, but I just have a hunch!
I live in Quebec and trust me the barn would be packed
It would be packed, QC is three hours from Montreal, not everyone just up and picked up the Habs as their team
butts in the seat, but not enough money in the bank
@@zachhoward9099 There isn't one Nordiques fan under the age of 34,35 anymore.
As much as Canada has a hockey problem, it was going to happen no matter what once they expanded the league. When the CFL and NFL were competing for talent in football they were able to maintain parity until suddenly they couldn't and it was sports market shifting from relying on fillings seats and instead filling TV slots and making the money from the broadcast rights. At the same time the ability to leverage those TV rights was heavily influenced by how much larger the US market is compared to Canada's. Its ten times the size and because of that all the contracts shifted to USD and eventually as the 1980s came and the 1990s rolled in the decline in the Canadian dollar hurt so much the profitability of Canadian teams that there was an honest worry that the Canadian teams would have all fold or move to the US. Thankfully a good enough TV deal and some interest in owning the teams in Canada's largest cities ensured they stayed over the smallest, however Winnipeg and Quebec City had to lose out.
Great overview. Coloradoan who liked hockey before the Nords came to town, here. I quit watching NHL not long after the TV timeout became a thing: money is the driver to the sport. I never liked sports because of money and fanfare. Money is the driver to all the big leagues. I quit on the Broncos when they stole the stadium from the community. It's all about The Benjamins now. Eff them.
The tax issue is a bit of a misnomer. Star players on Canadian teams who take a lot of their money in July 1st bonuses, only pay the corp rate on that amount-15% not 53%
Here's an idea, Give Canadian teams a higher salary cap to compensate for the higher taxes. Level the playing field when it comes to player salaries.
There’s no incentive. That’s the point. Canada has higher taxes and their currency is worth less and they generally have smaller fan bases, and yet they still are profitable.
That might be one of the dumbest comments I've read.
First of all there are still a number of american states/cities with high taxes ie New York and California.
Secondly there is already monetary incentive for players to play in Canada, they get paid in American dollars and spend in Canadian dollars, usually equating to a bump of about 25-35% in actual dollars spent in their day to day lives. Most Canadian cities also have a lower cost of living for players for this reason as well.
Thirdly the salary cap is for the owners, not the players. Every single player would be happier without a cap on their earnings so by changing the cap for Canadian teams you'd have to get all the american owners on board. Good luck with that
@@FS71625 First, do you seriously think there are not provincial and cities in Canada where you have to pay taxes as well?
Second, do you seriously thing European and American players spend the entire year in Canada? And if you think Canadian cities have a lower cost of living then you are truly deluded.
Third, I do realize the salary cap is for the owners, the same Canadian owners who are complaining that they are not competing on a level playing field. Would you like me to give you examples of players wanting to be traded out of Canada?
YOU are the last person to be calling anybody stupid.
So then do that for state income tax? I mean Florida has zero income tax but California 13.5 income tax?
Gary Bettman is the WORST thing that EVER happened to the NHL and Hockey in general .
And he is not well.
There are a lot of 4rth liners making a million bucks that would disagree with you.
Bettman is doing what the owners wanted him to. That’s why he is still there.
It’s our 75 cent dollar that is our biggest problem.
From a canadians point of view thats true, but the NHL owners love him and it wont change anytime soon as long as fans fill the arenas and more teams pop up in the US
@@eagledriver5546 Most of those fans are there on corporate giveaway tickets . The real fans have been priced out and the game has been taken away from them .
@@Bushman9there paid in American Einstein.
Why don't we ever hear about the horrendous odds of any team winning the Stanley Cup? It's a less than four percent chance that your team will win a Cup in the next 32 years! If one team wins two cup in in a decade, that means your team may win it once in 64 years. With 32 teams, good luck winning anything. Problem in all major sports now with so many teams in a league.
Damn and I thought MLB with their lack of parity was bad
@@zachhoward9099 MLB and NFL its tough just to make the playoffs. NBA and NHL half the league makes it. Doesn't matter if you win 8 games or 80. They need 8 teams per conference.
There are 7 Canadian teams meaning Canada on average should win 22% of the time making the drought a pretty big statistical anomaly over 30 years
@@danstevens6515 watch, Ottawa wins it again. Albeit in another 30 years
Omg. Like house prices everywhere anybody on this thread could have run the NHL and multiplied its value. It was a good product and it was naturally growing. I’m of the mind that way more people would be fans if there was a commissioner who actually wasn’t disliked by so many. People know when they don’t like something. I trust the fans - it seems so universal.
Great video. I still have my cherished Quebec Nordiques jersey hanging in my closet. I sure miss those old Adams Division games against Boston, Buffalo and Montreal. Lost of great action, end to end.
I agree with your point but people would love to watch the habs and nordiques play again. Even if there isn’t 100% attendance, it could open up “battle of Alberta” style marketing for the nhl and people will watch that. For the Atlanta team, nobody will really be too invested early on, and people won’t be as excited to watch them. But I agree with the other issues you raised.
True. I didn't follow the Nordiques-Habs rivalry too closely but I heard it was pretty intense back in the day, akin to Edmonton-Calgary. The Frenchies can be pretty emotional at times. 🙂
The point is that fans would be a fan of either of those teams if the other didnt exist. They are not new customers...they go to one subway or the other no matter what. The analogy is that a new subway in a new town brings new customers so the market cap is higher
@@flerglnergl The "Frenchies?" Jeeezus.
not enough fans in Quebec City
@juliansmith4295 You too woke for that phrase? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Excellent video :) Growth is the most important thing, but I don’t think Atlanta is the right market for a relocated team. Expansion teams failed there, and those tend to have more fan affinity than relocated ones. Houston might be a safer bet or even try a new market with no teams
It's like a guy who thinks going to a bar with lots of women is fish in a barrel, ignoring the army of chads found in that bar. It's also on the moronic fallacy that the metro matters, it's the viewing audience that matters. In the states the metro is the audience because only people who see the team live become fans, in Canada the entire province of quebec would be watching games on nights alternating with the habs.
Agreed. I don't see why the NHL wouldn't expand to Houston and Portland before Atlanta. Sometimes you just have to declare a failure and cut your losses. Yes they had bad ownership in Atlanta but let's be honest - even with good ownership you're fighting a battle for people's interest, not to mention look who you're competing against.....the Braves have been a fixture in Atlanta for years, as have the Falcons of the NFL, not to mention all the NCAA and other college football teams that people are crazy hardcore into - plus NASCAR is for some reason a big thing in the US south.
If you were a billionaire would you invest in an uphill battle like that? Personally I wouldn't.
6 millions people in the Atlanta metro area but you can be certain that an NHL franchise will always be dead last when the NFL, NBA and MLB have long established franchises and loyal fanbases to compete against.
@@flerglnergl Portland doesn’t make sense given you have both the Kraken and Canucks in the PNW, but Houston is a very safe sports market with relatively solid and consistent fanbases
@@vinceslapchopper issue is less so that and that Atlanta’s fanbases are very fickle. Falcons and Braves fans are usually pretty solid, but Hawks fans are super fickle and the Thrashers fans were the same, with most of their games being filled with opposing fans
I live not to far from the Honda Center and have seen people wandering around Canucks jerseys around noon on game day. I have heard that it's cheaper to fly down to So Cal and get a ticket to the game then it is to just get a ticket in Vancouver and you get to see a Stanley Cup banner.
Here is a suggestion, include a sister city plan in the expansion so if Atlanta gets a team, Quebec City can be anointed sister city and maybe have Quebec City be their AHL team and maybe have the NHL team, Atlanta Sudiques, play some pre-season games and have travel packages so they can fly down and watch the Suds in Atlanta and a few other snow bird locations. Win-win-win!
I think capspace should be adjusted depending on the amount of taxes of the city/province/state a team is located at. This would ensure that everyone has the same amount of cap space to work with. This wouldn't fix all issues, but it would at least make things a bit more fair.
and adjust as the CDN $ fluctuates.
@@xAnAngelOfDeathx They're paid in USD, even in Canada.
@@elomellow1623 Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
Thanks for this video! When I do my STATE TAXES IN ARIZONA next spring I'll tell them RobTalksHockey told me there's no state tax in Arizona, so I'm not paying😂
Lmao fair. To be fair, AZ state tax is peanuts compared to Canada
If you cut provincial/federal taxes and lowered the cost of living.. Canada would start winning cups again. Players would want to play in Canada.
government is too greedy to do this
Some good points here. I remember when Gretzky went to L.A. The NHL thought hockey would be the next big thing in the south, but it was Gretzky, not the game, that drew the fans. I lived in Texas for a while and I was able to buy good lower bowl tickets to a Dallas Stars game the day of the game, and it New Years day at that. This was just a couple years before they won the Cup so they had a good team. But Texas is NASCAR and football. That is just the reality for most cities across the southern U.S.
Yea that’s a damn shame, it’s mostly due to the media in Dallas. They’ll always cover Cowboys over any other sport regardless of their current record. 2-12 cowboys will get more news coverage than a Stars team lighting up the league. Thankfully the Stars have built a huge following in and around Texas, so they’ve flourished in spite of the media.
A factor in Gretzky's trade was his wife wanting to act in Hollywood movies.
Saw them both.Not sure if I preferred police academy 5 or the 2 min of a league of their own she was in.
Janet was a F list actress even in her “prime” in the 80’s.
😂😂😂😂
Quebec is also shafted because no Easter Conference Team is going to go West to replace the former Arizona slot.
Excellent analysis! Thank you Rob! 😊
The Canes had a lot if success early. If not they wouldn't have worked out. I have gone to at least one game every season since they moved to Raleigh in 2000. They were in the cup in 01 and won in 06. They made the conference finals twice outside of those seasons before your graph started. Without that success (and zero sports competition in Raleigh) they wouldn't have succeeded
Gary Bettman takes care of his little American expansion teams. They have every advantage much like Tampa Bay, Vegas and Seattle.
Canes were in the 02 Cup final.
@@anthonylacy8374 01-02 season. Yep
This team had a terrible record when they were the Hartford Whalers. In their entire NHL history in Hartford they won only one playoff series. Most years they didn’t even make the playoffs, at a time when there were only 21 teams and 16 advanced to the playoffs. So it’s not surprising that attendance wasn’t good most years. We can only wonder if things would have been different if the team had done as well in Hartford as they have done in Carolina.
It's criminal Quebec City doesn't have a team, greed be damned.
Criminal? The population of Québec City is only like half a million or so. It's a tiny market. I'm not sure the economics would ever work there and It certainly didn't work the first time. But a million times over, it would always make more sense to put a team back in Winnipeg than Quebec City. Which is ultimately what happened.
Canada has aprox 30 million in general population. The US is 11x bigger than that. From a numbers perspective, it makes sense why the NHL wants a bigger US presence.
As Canadians we need Atlanta to keep on getting teams so that they can move to Canada after they fail.
Im 35. Im a Canadian and NFL is my main thing watch every Sunday. I watch the Cfl playoffs too. I watched all the Raptors playoff games and win the NBA title. That was cool. If the Leafs win one more cup before im dead id be surprised. Lol. They dont care about winning just raking in money from all the devoted boneheads in Canada. 300 dollars a seat min to watch them stink half the time. Lol No deal.
The thing is - a long playoff run would rake in lots of money. Players are paid in the playoffs from a playoff pool. A long playoff run gets you a lot of money without paying the huge salaries. The playoffs are where teams REALLY make the money. So it really isn't true that the Canadian teams don't care about winning.
As a Cowboys fan, I can understand and sympathize with Leaf’s fans. To watch your once great organization be ran into the ground year after year with poor management and sub par performances. Funny that the Cowboys and Leaf’s are two of the most expensive franchises in their respective leagues.
Vegas took massive risks to reep massive rewards. Trading out the franchise goaltender and the most popular player on the team was rough. No Canadian team would do that with the risk of blowback from the fans. Vegas has looked at the game as a business and treating it that way.
More like the casinos that populate Vegas - they've gone in every year and while it paid off for them last season, I'd say look for them to fall off the map at some point.
Every team falls off the map at some point. Not every team has a cup for their efforts. Full marks to Vegas for making their shot count.
Pff, Vegas was given every advantage possible and still almost screwed it all up. Many expansion teams in the past were not given a fraction of what the Golden Knights received during the expansion draft and let's be real, many teams panicked and gave Vegas draft picks and prospects to avoid losing veteran players. They also have the massive benefit of playing in a no state income tax, they were able to stack the deck with big star players and circumvent the cap heavily last year by burying Mark Stone contract during the regular season. If American franchises must succeed on the ice to be financially viable, it's not a good market for the sport because there are only so many teams that can make the playoffs every season. The argument to have more canadian franchises is even stronger then.
@@vinceslapchopperI wouldn't say Vegas almost screwed it up. A cup, a cup final, a WCF, and a semi-final in just their first 6 years of existence are my definition of success. There seems to be a lot of jealousy towards Vegas because of their excellent management.
@@haysbrickell9579 everything they did before they won the Cup was vindicated but let's be honest, had they failed to win it all last season everybody would have laughed at how management handled their assets. Especially with all the advantages they received during the expansion draft. Because at some point, you run out of draft picks to trade for rental players, your farm system gets bone dry, your core star players age out, your window of opportunity is gone and it's only a matter of time before you have to rebuild. I will give them props on how they handled the Eichel situation though, it was just stupid from the Sabres to not let him get his neck surgery of choice and Las Vegas took a calculated risk that paid off big time.
Either lower the cap in the states or raise the cap in Canada to make it a more even playing field
I don't really agree with the Subway analogy when it comes to adding a team to either Quebec or Atlanta because pretty much everyone has either had or at least knows what subway is. I think a better analogy would be a shop that sold beaver tails. People in Quebec know all about how deliciously sweet they are and would happily support the new store while very few people in Atlanta would know of or even care about beaver tails to begin with.
NHL is in deep deep trouble. Baby boomers are dying off. Minor hockey numbers are falling . It’s simply to expensive to play or go see a game. I feel sorry for the kids. All greed by various unions and owners.
Excellent video, I would just add that you should look into profit sharing in the NHL. If a franchise is struggling, there is a redistribution of revenue from high income teams to the lower income teams. Since Canadian franchises tend to be high earners, they have to pay for unprofitable American teams. What does this ultimately mean? Well, when a struggling American team is in town, it's literally in Canadian owner's financial interest for the away team to win to try and build hype and a fan base for that team. I believe this is another reason Canadian teams never win championships, their owners would rather have Vegas or some other growing American market win so they don't have to share their own revenue if such a team were to have financial troubles.
Here in QC, we acknowledged that the Nordiques will never return since Vegas got theirs and called us "deferred". They've been simply using us as a bargaining chip. Well, we're fed up. Instead, we commit on other things instead of beating on a dead horse. The NHL would have to work so hard to get a hand in our pockets now.
Repatriate the Cup and have our own league. People can say it would be a bush league all they want, but on average the Canadian clubs are valued higher than the US clubs on average.
I hope ATL gets a new team...then they can move to Canada. Maybe Quebec.
The inside talk is that Phoenix moves to Quebec City and then both Atlanta and Phoenix will get expansion teams with the most favoured expansion draft in the history of the NHL. D*ckman will subsequently turn around and say I told you so about the two markets.
Quebec Remparts isn't a minor league team, they're major junior.
Most people believe that NHL-AHL-ECHL are the only professional leagues, everything else is minor.
True. It’s common to refer the AHL and CHL as minors, but you’re correct
1993 was the highest scoring season in NHL history as well. The 94-95 lockout changed the game completely. The trap-era started, thats why from 95-03 the only teams winning was NJ, Colorado, Detroit and Dallas. The teams with best forwards, a top 5 goalie and solid defencemen. Plus these teams could pay the players salaries, Canada had no chance with loonie.
Then, 2004 comes around. Calgary makes it! But loses game 7. Right after that, another lockout. How convenient. The game will never be like it was, just like MLB.
Amazing video. I'm an aspiring hockey creator as well and watching your videos is honestly inspiring! Keep it up, we need more like you in the hockey community!
Should move Winnipeg to the Pacific, it would help attendance in ~12 rinks and maybe hurt attendance in 4 (?)
Who doesn’t love yourself some RTH
He's cool 😎 Defo top 5 hockey CZcamsr imo
Canucks had two chances after Bettman took over. 1994 and 2011. Flames in 2004, Oilers in 2006. Montreal in 2021. The problem is wealthy US owners vs Canadian owners, but also how the draft works.
Why play in Canada and get taxed to death or play in texas or Florida and make more money in beautiful weather
@@thearmyofgreatness yup, or las vegas and meet lots of hotties.
Bettman took over in 1993. Vancouver was in the 1994 cup final against New York . Not to be a homer but the calls were lopsided. I spoke to a prominent player and asked him about it. He had his suspicions. Regardless, Bettman is a New Yorker.
Canadian teams have definitely been getting better. I was a Vancouver fan for their cup run in 2012 and you know, I wonder how these types of videos would changed if they won the cup then.
Couples things you didn't really mention that I think fit:
Hockey is the "luckiest" sport of the major sports, meaning there is less correlation between winning and star power than something like the NBA. This adds two factors:
a. NHL team building process in this weird tension between depth vs. star power. Is it better to have a forward core of 6 million players? Or one where theres a top line of 9-12m, second of 6m, third of 3m, fourth of 1-2m (almost like a moneyball calculation)?
b. Upsets happen more. I can thing of two major cup runs in the last 5 years from vastly underpowered teams; Candiens 2021 and Florida this year. Aplayer like Bobrosky can be BAD, then come out of whatever hole he sleeps in and post insane save percentages. And in the first rounds, I think they happen more. I know both the Chicago and Winnipeg series were serious bummers for the Oiler - "should wins". It just adds a level of inconsistency thats hard to account for. And when the Americans have 24 (?) teams vs. 8.... the stats are just on their side that the dice rolls in their favour.
Gary Bettman has rigged the game against Canadian teams during the playoffs
Tiny hats ruin everything.
@@Kenny_Marsyou’re a clown if you believe that
Yep, biased refereeing is one of the things in the league's control to ensure american team success and they use it.
you’re a clown if don,t believe that
One Saturday the CBC decided to saturate the network with all day hockey: pond hockey, floor hockey, and anything else they could drag in as a venue. That was the last time I watched a hockey game.