What’s GOING ON in the US?!
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- čas přidán 17. 11. 2023
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Is there something wrong with the aviation industry in the United States? Is there a systemic problem there, that continues to cause close calls at random, in busy American airports?
Well, the country’s airline industry is undergoing some changes that are actually quite interesting. But in aviation, we often say that… it’s better when things are routine and even a bit boring. If things get INTERESTING, then it’s because something unexpected happened, that could cause mistakes. What do I mean by that?
Stay tuned!
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.
• Airline meltdown
• What does it take to b...
• Inside United's Pilot ...
• United - Captain your ...
• Airline wants to cut h...
• Pilot training hours c...
• Two planes narrowly av...
• NTSB releases image of...
• Passenger says JetBlue...
• United Airlines flight...
• Relive the A320neo’s h...
• Early retirement reque...
• To Our 137 Senior Pilo...
• Flying during the pand...
• American Airlines anno...
• Retraining of the Cock...
• United - San Francisco...
• How Airlines Park Thou...
• Passenger says JetBlue...
• Blocked radio transmis...
• NTSB: Near-collision b...
• What It Takes To Be An...
• Airport Eyecatchers #2...
• In a Blink: Denver | S...
• Video
• Tweed-New Haven Airpor...
• Tweed New Haven Airpor...
• Avelo Airlines Announc...
• How Airlines Can Survi...
• Explaining the air tra...
• Boeing 737 MAX 9 Compl...
• Relive the A320neo’s h...
• Tucker: People will di...
• Southwest Airlines: 73... - Zábava
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The world is also experiencing never before seen narcissism!
@@Vmaxfodder ?
Gatekeeper role is far too important for that. Yes, for now. But that is the problem isn't it. I have personally seem merit take a back seat at an South Australian pilot school for "diversity and inclusion". This cancer is slowly weeding it's way into the aviation industry at the grass roots level. It may not be at the large transport companies just yet but it is definitely happening. All it takes for the check pilots to no longer permitted to block diverse pilots over meritorious ones is a simple company policy change.
Please don't dismiss this as a problem as it certainly is.
A funny thing you can do with a VPN: if you like foreign languages you can get CZcams and other places to serve you ads in that language. It also helps if you hate political ads in your own country. I’m in the US and I do NOT want to see those. 😂
Fox News got sued and lost for $787 million for false information provided to viewers ... funny that you showed Fox News "making drama".
What we're seeing in the States, is decades of well-meaning policies that on the surface seemed to raise standards for safety, but in reality, only mask the deeper institutional and systemic problems now coming back to bite us. Examples include the 1500 hr rule, age limit in hiring ATC, raising the retirement age for pilots from 60 to 65, and etc. In short, "standards" have been raised, but quality-of-life for people who work in aviation have not.
I agree that the first two are a problem, but I'm a bit confused why you're including the increased age limit for pilots from 60 to 65 - we really need to reckon with the fact that 60-65 is now an age where good health is the norm, rather than the exception - not in the same way as your prime years, but good health regardless.
What do you mean age limit for ATC? Excuse my ignorance.
Good points
@@Lime61318you have to start training before you turn 30, or you’re disqualified, and there’s an extremely low forced retirement age
@@MentourNowintresting news and very informitave as usual...thank you again for yet another fantastic video,sir.👍👍👍👍
Corporate pilot here retired 15 years ago. One thing I liked about European airports was the taxiway lighting system that would put a red bar at a runway intersection until you were cleared to enter or cross the runway. I don't know if they are doing that in the US but it is a good system to help prevent runway incursions. Human beings' performance is reduced by fatigue, distraction, task overloads, lack of information, lack of training or lack of experience and external stress caused by non-work-related factors, or just flying with someone who is not a good crew fit with you, so somewhere in there is the problem. Sometimes I think two well trained, wide awake but low experience pilots just might do better than one inexperienced pilot flying with a self-proclaimed admiral of the air, or two admirals of the air trying to out do each other. Ok, I'm rambling!
Haha 'Admiral of the Air' is a perfect title for some people 😆
Are you sure there is space for me in this cockpit, your ego is taking up most of it. 😆
Major airports in the USA have that system.
But you speak the truth.
Please ramble more.....
maybe, but what you are saying sounds true, and besides Ramblers were good cars
The first thing that strikes me about the Boston incident is "yes we are ready" is not "we are cleared for take-off" so to me that's a break down in communication equally shared between the PIC for using potentially misleading words and the F/O for not asking for clarification. A lot of similarities with the Tenerife disaster. Happens all the time in the railway industry where I work
imprecise language is a factor in sooooooo many industries/situations 😮😢
It is due to diversity hires.
Which have been happening for ten years now.
Would you sign off a substandard pilot?
Knowing you will be sacked if you don’t - the answer is obvious.
Of course you would.
R
makes me miss Kennedy Steve alot
It's just kind of funny how angry dumb people can't just be mad about real things they have to invent some, forced diversity, flat earth, anti vax, great replacement, all completely whackadoodle and delusional but people get so riled up
Training an ATC here in Europe takes 2.5 to 3 years from a "random guy from the street" (who passed 4-level interview process where roughly 1 in 100 applicants is chosen) up until a fully trained, licensed and independently working controller. And the success rate in the training is roughly 50 %. Even a controller with previous experience from a different area has to train for at least half a year for the specific sector they are going to control. At least you are not paying for the training yourself (unlike CPL / ATPL). Still, any hope of rapidly filling vacant contoller position is a castle in the sky.
It’s about half the time in the US. But can be longer depends how long the on the job training period last to get approved for all the ATC positions at your assigned facility. The interview and selection process is still very tough in the US. It has multiple tests physical and mental tests and some interviews. The exceptance rate is very similar.
@@DontUputThatEvilOnMe depending on the facility that you are training at, 2.5-3 years from off the street to fully certified is actually about the same in the US. Obviously some facilities can get you there faster if they are slower or have less overall stuff to learn.
@@joshh2705 cool thanks.
It is due to diversity hires.
Which have been happening for ten years now.
Would you sign off a substandard pilot?
Knowing you will be sacked if you don’t - the answer is obvious.
Of course you would.
R
What are you waffling about? Me and my bro did the opposition in January and almost complete with the Atc license we already got our destinations too
Something you dont mention is there are a HUGE amount of incidents with 15,000+ hour pilots - it seems like they get overconfident with their skill until they encounter something they haven't before.
I’ve found THAT to be far more risky than letting younger people fly.
@@MentourNow Any health & saftey can tell you that complaceny is a killer. Ages bettween 45 and 65 in UK are the dangerous years.
I don’t think they are saying age and experience is inherently dangerous, but that hubris is. One on the issues with pilots that I’ve been hearing is they fly so much on autopilot, they get out of practice manually flying. I think the solution is instead of assuming seasoned pilots have sharp skills, verify this regularly in simulator checks where they have to practice emergency procedures. If they pass with flying colors, great, if not then you know where there’s an issue that needs attention.
Not selling anything, @@ZERO-911, i'm just a mechatronic engineer making an observation based on hundreds of incident reports.
If you want to discuss operational policy you are better of taking it up with the check pilot with decades of experience above. I'm sure he can sell you something cool, too.
But as a general rule - safety comes form observation - not rash assumption and prejudice, and complacency is the biggest killer.
Its not even just hubris, @@benhart16 - totally different field bur the day you stop thinking a metal lathe is about to k!ll you is probably the day you should quit.
The worse thing about ATC shortages is that they were told in 2020 by ATC associations and unions they needed to keep training new controllers or face staffing issues that would last as much as 10 years to get out of.
Union thugs
But covid!
But Covid was a good example of being reactive and demand driven. Few flights during COVID, so we won't hire ATC. The after COVID, instead of restricting flights until ATC capacity can increase to handle it, they allow as many flights as airlines want and overwork the existing ATC.
@@liam3284 some quit because they didn’t want to take the injection. Therefore, there was a problem for the airlines
@@gaylealleluia8392 I think that was rescinded after they quit... thank the current administration for both poor funding for ATC as well as being reactive rather than proactive. Mentor should be testifying in Congress.. he's got a perspective and pulse on what should be the focus here right now.
I would add that the newer "line up and wait" clearance has the same number of syllables as "cleared for takeoff" and the additional similar tonalities of "wait" and "take". There was absolutely nothing wrong with "taxi into position and hold". It was clear, concise and completely different sounding than a takeoff clearance. This change for the sake of change did the flying industry no favors and in my mind actually made things less safe.
respectfully disagree.
you cannot get clearer than 'line up and wait'.
'position and hold' is too ambiguous.
'Line up and wait' is standard ICAO phraseology while 'taxi into position and hold' is not. It is as simple as that. If 'line up and wait' and 'cleared for take-off' is really easy to mistake we would be seeing incidents like these regularly outside the United States.
@@davebaton8879 Perhaps you are a bit too young and/or inexperienced to know why this happened, so let me refresh you. 30 years ago Europe had a distinct problem with America dictating international avaition phraseology. They then inculcated something new to show their relevance: and the net result was “line up and wait”. The distinctive error of their ways plagues us to this day.
@@adamdriver1016 No disrespect taken, but you are obviously not a serious pilot nor an air traffic controller.
@@bwalker4194
15'000 hours on the Airbus.
Hold a TRE rating.
That serious enough for you darling?
I worked at an FBO in the late 80's refueling 727/737 aircraft for USAir at one of their hubs. What I don't understand with pilots is, how you have a runway incursion when crossing a runway. We had it drilled into us that when crossing a runway (in our fueling trucks), we a) had to get ground tower permission, but then b) ALWAYS looked both ways up and down the runway to be sure there were no aircraft on the runway, on short final, etc. Just like you're taught when crossing the street as a child... look both ways.
Unfortunately, at least 3 of the mentioned incidents involve a plane approaching from behind or above, which gives pilots zero visibility.
Don't forget that the runway is the natural habitat for airplanes while it is getting even near it is an exception for fuel trucks.
@@alexlowe2054 From neither a pilot nor a controller: Is there any work going on to let pilots "see through" the airplane in all directions? I realize that collision avoidance systems are what is designed to surveil the surrounding skies, for aircraft that have those systems. A third person would be needed to monitor the 360-degree surveillance as I am imagining it. (I wish they never stopped having a third professional on the flight deck in the first place, but this for other reasons - not to watch for other aircraft - and I realize that at present there is a shortage of pilots.) I know I'm like a little kid asking weird questions.
@@Jeff-dv9jlnot really. I think the F-35 has something like that. The pilot wears AR goggles which display camera views below and behind the airplane. But that's an expensive system for a military aircraft.
@@bbgun061 Got it - thanks for replying.
Props to the Learjet 60 captain for giving what seems to be an honest answer, "In my head we were cleared to take off, the only thing I can think of is that it was cold, I was not completely well and had a stuffed nose," That doesn't sound like an excuse, which many people might be prone to give when they're put in the hot spot for causing a dangerous situation.
Incidents often have a long chain of small annoyances or mistakes that by themselves seems insignificant but all add up to a higher stress level that cause a big mistake. I'm not surprised at all that it can start with a stuffed nose. There have been tests that shows that driving with a cold have the same effects as driving while drunk, in regards to general awareness, ability to make correct decisions and also slower reaction times. Pair that with a bit of expectation bias and you have a recipe for a serious accident.
@@haqvorwith a stuffed nose you’re irritated and probably get less oxygen, and that’s gonna have a bad effect without a doubt
Sounds like an excuse to me:
"Yeah I know I didn't do my job but my nose was stuffy. Not my fault..."
@@robgrey6183 ah, Mr. Faultless joins in.
The expectations are higher. That explanation was publicly deemed as a poor excuse by at least one peer. So either you are fit for flying or you find a sound reason for what you do
another factor that we should keep in mind is that before 2020, there were 10 incidents a year and we heard about 2, while now, there are 20 a year and we hear about all 20. so yes, the number of near misses has doubled, and that is cause for concern, but the amount of media attention has multiplied by five, and we need to remind ourselves that the number of incidents has only doubled.
Exactly, and I did make this point in the video.
@@MentourNow ah, I missed it, then.
I think you pulled those numbers out of your own butt.
lowering of standard in USA is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how much this guy try to downplay it, perhaps for political reasons (Perhaps he is, as many Europeans are, led to believe by the media that anyone right of Kamala Harris in US is a far-right-extremist-little-Hitler )… Every cooperation in US has a large chunk of its investments determined by Diversity-Equity-Inclusion scores , all of which are in essence metrics to see how much less straight white men they are hiring.. And racial quotas that discriminate against white males are still in effect in the federal sector , (I'm not a white man, so I have no dog in this fight, but its a fact)
Yes, all pilots and ATCs has to pass exams, but there's a difference between barely passing and being well versed, experienced and good at a career... Think of good lawyers and lawyers who has barely cleared their bar exam. when you deliberately make your hiring pool smaller (most DEI metrics demand at least 50% women and racial/ sexual minorities be hired to lucrative federal positions in USA, while out of the total applicants only a minority would be such individuals ), the statistical likelihood of having to select sub standard workers among them increase...
I LOVE my local air traffic controllers. I fly in and out of a very busy area of the East Coast, and our guys handle a massive workload of airline, GA, cargo and military operations so smoothly that I'm often amazed. I've called in and been told that I am sixth in line to land and somehow, they keep us all sorted. On top of all of that, they are eminently friendly and courteous. I love those guys!
Sounds like the rest of the industry should take some lessons from your guys and gals.
Must be atlanta approach.
NYC traffic controllers speaking fast can lead to misunderstanding. This is especially true when they are speaking to pilots who have only a minimal command of English and who are struggling to understand controllers with a New York accent. However, have you heard the arguments these controllers sometimes get into with pilots? That wastes time and is even scarier.
NYC attitude is often a problem.
What, you gotta problem wit dat?
Another problem with talking fast is radio channels are rarely clear, and are band limited, so some components of speech will be missing.
@@liam3284 Agreed!
I’m a student pilot in the US right now and just the other day I was taking off doing a touch and go and I had a small business jet was go around and ended up about 100’ over my right shoulder as I was climbing out. There may be a pilot shortage but there is a huge Air Traffic Controller shortage here and worse most all of them have never flown a plane themselves as thus are less equipped to understand the needs and requirements of piloting an aircraft. They do a hard job and I thank them for it but from what I can tell there needs to be more of them
Welcome to the whimsically whacky world of aviation! Us pilots have been commenting about non-pilot ATC for decades. The best way to help that issue is to schedule a trip to the tower and meet the controllers face to face. That helps us as pilots have a better understanding of how and why they do what they do, and they can learn from us to streamline their job as well.
ATCO in other countries are not tipically private pilots. This was mostly a US thing and there is no numbers to say it's an advantage. You also have Pilots on frequency doing crazy stuff you would say a pilot would never do. It's just not a factor in this.
@@paulis7319 Both trips for pilots to the tower and also the reverse - ATCOs jump seating in airliners - would definitely be helpful. The latter used to happen, but, from what I understand, this has also be a casualty of the ATC shortage, at least in the short term.
I'm surprised they don't shut airspace down if there aren't enough traffic controllers.
I thought that was the norm.
about 15 years ago as many people were looking for work, I and many others tried hard to get into the ATC world. We studied, traveled and did the tests, and got great results - only to not be selected. The government had their chance and they couldn't anticipate that they'd need more than the bare minimum staffing levels. Huge mistake.
The FAA shut down ATC training during covid with no plan. Training instructors had hours reduced and or put on furlough. And when everything ramped back up there wasnt enough training capcity to make up the shortfall causing staff shortage. Same is true of pilots. Serious fatigue issues are starting to become dangerous and days away from becoming deadly.
This. Shutting down training for a short time at the start of the pandemic was understandable. But completely shutting down training for 2 years is unforgivable. Schools and businesses figured out how to keep functioning in a fully remote environment. The airline industry should have worked to at least keep some sort of remote online-only training running. Even if it didn't 100% qualify people, continuing some sort of remote-only training would allow the industry to pay their training staff and be prepared to resume training after the pandemic.
Instead, the airline industry stopped paying their workers, which meant many people moved to different job. The entire industry lost the capacity to train new personnel because they lost their training staff and all the people who were in the training programs. It was a catastrophic failure, and we're seeing the effects now. It'll take years to undo the damage, and the industry will need to offer better pay and benefits to attract people after this loss of trust.
FAuci…. & Dirty Dems Done Dirt Cheap.
Shutting down the country did more harm than good.
As someone from the US, “what is going on in the US” is something I ask myself every day 😅
I’ll say this from jump seating weekly the past few months.. there’s not enough ATC controllers. Multiple airports ATC would vector us in, and tell us to defend to the run way, only to forget us. Pilots had to call them and tell them hey, I’m at 2000ft or whatever and then they’d clear us to land. Separation was also another issue. Seems things are always seconds away from disaster. There needs to be more controllers, more runways at many airports and more time between flights
That's where the early landing clearances are dangerous. They forget you're coming and have been cleared.
“xxxx, yyyy tower. Continue visual approach runway nnn. Report two mile final.”
“Two mile final, runway nnn. xxxx.”
“xxxx, cleared to land runway nnn.”
This dialogue isn’t a problem.
But “hey, I’m at 2000’” isn’t so useful.
@@amazer747 :
Yes. It’s much better that controllers forget to clear you than to clear you then forget you and clear another aircraft.
A landing clearance shouldn’t be issued so early that it could be forgotten by the controller or the pilot.
Pilots often forget too.
He got to that part near the end of the video, stating there's currently a ~20% shortage. You're right, there are a lot of improvements that the aviation industry needs, but the FAA is driven by money rather than facts.
I know more adults over the age of 30 who want to go into ATC than I know people who want to become pilots at all, but the age cut-off to start ATC blocks all of them.
I feel that. I got my dispatch license because i was months past the cut off age.
Changing the age limit wouldn't do anything anyways, there's plenty of worthy applicants every time a bid goes out. The FAA can't get them through the academy efficiently enough.
60% of all new ATC quit or don't make the grade within a year.
@@shrimpflea this is untrue. I'd say maybe 1/3 don't make it at the academy, but that's the point of the academy.. you can't screen for this job via a simple aptitude test. Retention is pretty good, few people quit unless they are sent to one of the facilities with multiple year training backlogs, there aren't many like this. As for success rates, even where I work, one of the most difficult to certify at in the NAS, the people who can't hack it are retained and sent to easier facilities where they almost always are successful. Hiring older individuals won't correct this anyways, age has nothing to do with ability and we have plenty of applicants. The cutoff age is due to the forced retirement age, which believe me, shouldn't be touched.
It's not just the pilots that are the issue, it's ATC.
FAA, the government has a monopoly with no demand to improve.
And guess what the hiring practices are of the federal government.
Privatize ATC like Europe & Canada did. Take our ridiculous self grandizing polititians and inept government out of the picture!! Our current "government" thinks "bigger government" and "more government" is the better solution.
That's exactly what the video said! You must not have watched it!
@@deans178 I commented before he got to that part, sorry if that hurt your fefes
Covid did a number on the US in different fields. It caused a percentage of more experienced people who were also getting closer to ending their time in those stressful jobs to go ahead and retire from that work, and that went along with the big drop in demand. Two years later the amount of people on the job wasn't nearly enough. Something like this EVEN THOUGH you could say is foreseen is STILL hard to deal with when you have a sizeable amount of people leave a specific career.
All of these jobs require very attentive people, who are also well educated and good communicators, so the different companies/agencies losing a significant amount of people like this caused real harm. So, through all the cutbacks the companies/agencies needed to do because of the dropoff of the flying public along with people leaving those fields I'm not surprised.
When I need to fly to Asia, I'm still going to fly. I have faith in the airline industry that things work correctly WAY more times than they don't and I face MUCH more danger getting in my car when so many people can't even stay in their own lanes because they're looking at a smartphone instead of the road.
"Safe and effective." "Sudden Runway Incursion Syndrome." Nothing to see here folks. Move along, and get your boosters.
After listening to this ATC clips available on the web from these incidents, my imo about the causes is:
1. US aviation relays on to much VFR. If they used more IFR and fixed flight path (especially STAR, SID and standard Go Around) much of these close calls would be prevented bc everybody follows pre planed flight path in and out of these busy airports/ airspace's. Just look to London, UK where everybody follow the same path/ fixes and everybody knows exactly where they should go and what altitude. You never hear about near misses like you hear in etc NYC. Both of the every busy airspace's with lot of airports.
2. ATC standards. From that I hear on these tapes US seems to use every much nonstandard international ATC protocol and phraseology which could confuse pilots (especially foreign which may not be so good in English). It would also help for ATC to speak slower and shorter instead of fast and long clearances.
3. As other has mention it may also come with poorer training of both pilots and ATC controllers.
Loved the way to took a multifactorial approach to a complicated problem. Retired ATC and I strongly agree with your analysis. One (main) problem is our Congress and funding allocation. This leads the FAA without adequate funding to shoot for the 80% level and predictably hitting 70%.
You probably have seen the latest Runway incursion here in the U.S. the actually ended in a collision between 2 business jets a LUAW that took off without clearance.
Juan at the blancolirio channel had a video about the initial report on that just a day or two ago. A Hawker took off without clearance and clipped a good part of the horizontal stab of a landing Citation.
Yes and in the audio it sounds like the Hawker pilot tries to blame the controller.
@@wb6anp Confirmation bias is a very powerful thing. I don't think that the Hawker pilot purposefully took off without a clearance. He was probably completely convinced that he got the clearance and just followed the instructions he had been given. That should of course never happen but apparently it does, so for me it highlights a situation that needs better margins that either eliminates the situation or that the procedures should be changed that allows for reasonable mistakes that doesn't get any serious consequences.
Lots of controllers have retired over the last 15 years, I’m one of them. I am one of the few that flew corporate while a controller and I still fly now. Covid hit and traffic dropped it training continued so many newer controllers were not used to the volume of traffic that was present pre-covid. I fly into the NY area, mostly KFRG and KTEB and it’s fun but requires precision and clear communications. Make me wonder if that intensity makes folks pay closer attention than other less dense places. It’s not a one issue problem but many a faceted problem. I devour accident and incident reports and this channel to stay aware of the pitfalls in aviation. I’m single pilot IFR in complex twin piston and turboprop aircraft and try my best to be thorough, use check lists, and minimize risk. Love your videos, keep them coming. (I agreed the US 1,500 ATP standard now is BS).
Is it true that beginning in 2012 the FAA started hiring ATC's based on a "personality test"? There are rumors that the personality test was to weed out white people and exclusively hire black people.
The 1500 hour rule hasn’t changed anything at all or made life more difficult for new pilots. It is just a really tired excuse by young pilots. Major airlines didn’t hire 200 hour pilots before the rule. “Time building” has always been a thing. The only thing new is increased demand for pilots and a more impatient younger generation.
@@kimchristensen3727…..this is so true. I had 2,300 hrs before my first 121 regional. 4,200 at my first mainline. The new breed expects to hit mainline at 1,500……and the sad thing is that they are getting it!!!!! (With all light aircraft experience)
I hate to admit this but my brother in law, a man with military fighter jet experience, who transitioned into commercial flying has been a check pilot for many years. He retired earlier this year before he planned to. His main reason for it was pressure from the airline he worked for to “ease up” on his evaluation of new pilots. I live in Germany but he lives in the states.
Ouch!
As well as the point to point model, don’t forget that Europe has trains! That takes a chunk out of the domestic aviation market that simply doesn’t exist in the US. Birmingham and Manchester to London used to be busy air routes , for example, and now… not.
I love the way you analyse stuff effectively; looking not at the surface causes but also the deep roots of a problem. This is the only channel where this happens with any reliability and I absolutely LOVE it. Keep doing what you do - it's very much appreciated.
lowering of standard in USA is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how much this guy try to downplay it, perhaps for political reasons (Perhaps he, as many Europeans are led to believe that everyone right of Kamala Harris in US are a far right extremist little Hitler as the media has made you believe )… Every cooperation in US has a large chunk of its investments determined by Diversity-Equity-Inclusion scores , all of which are in essence metrics to see how much less straight white men they are hiring.. And racial quotas that discriminate against white males are still in effect in the federal sector , (I'm not a white man, so I have no dog in this fight, but its a fact)
Yes, all pilots and ATCs has to pass exams, but there's a difference between barely passing and being well versed, experienced and good at a career... Think of good lawyers and lawyers who has barely cleared their bar exam. when you deliberately make your hiring pool smaller (most DEI metrics demand at least 50% women and racial/ sexual minorities be hired to lucrative federal positions in USA, while out of the total applicants only a minority would be such individuals ), the statistical likelihood of having to select sub standard workers among them increase...
@@kurger100 The actual fuck are you talking about?
It is how all investigations into aviation happen
Not only runway incursions but lining up for landing on the wrong parallel runway or taxiway - just happened with AA at JFK recently. Victor had the ATC on that.
Just to clarify, though, it was a biz jet, not AA, that lined up on the wrong runway. AA was where they were supposed to be.
@@vbscript2 True but it was also a biz jet that took off without clearance at Logan forcing JetBlue to go around and another at Houston Hobby resulting in a collision with another biz jet. Point being you can't preclude mistakes by the smaller types impacting a commercial at larger hub airports. One reason why I still can't understand why KMHT was totally abandoned by Delta (as were some 20 other feeders) and others. It used to relieve some of the pressure from Logan but the fares are astronomical.
@@ajg617 Oh, yes, it's still very important and impacts the airlines. Not trying to dismiss its importance at all.
As for major airlines pulling out of smaller airports, they've all been doing that and it's mostly for two reasons: the pilot shortage (they need those pilots to be flying bigger aircraft) and ATC shortage (the FAA has requested airlines to reduce flight counts in some regions due to the lack of sufficient controllers available, with the Northeast being one of those.) United and American have been doing the same thing. A lot of small airports have seen reduced or eliminated service over the last 3 years.
Having small airports with a few RJ services around doesn't really noticeably decrease required flight counts at big airports like Logan. Instead, it just creates more work for the TRACON and ARTCC. It might slightly reduce passenger count at Logan, but quite unlikely to be enough to matter, especially with Logan being a hub for Delta.
You hit close to home with this episode. I live in Sarasota (SRQ) where we went from about 1 million annually passengers before the pandemic to more than 4.3 million projected for 2023. We were served by 6 airline to 8 locations, dominated by Delta with spoke service to basically to Atlanta. The growth started with Allegiant which served over 20 secondary and small market airports. Then Southwest returned after canceling service to SRQ when they bought Air Trans (they are now the #1 airline at SRQ). We are now served by 11 airlines including all the new style airlines like Allegiant, Breeze, Avelo, Frontier and Sun Country with service to 54 destinations.
Of course with this growth has come growing pains. Our 13 gate terminal space has maxed out with 5 new surface gates to be finish at the end of 2024 (Allegiant is taking all 5 gates). We also had a similar near miss in February 2023 with an Air Canada A321 cleared to take off while an American 737 flight was cleared to land on the same runway. This episode really targeted SRQ, covering all our local issues to a tee.
I'm not so clued into the industry, but wow, that is a huge increase in a very short time period. I didn't realize demands were increasing that much. Also will look up the incident you mentioned. I'm in Canada but somehow didn't hear about this March incident.
Dude I flew into Sarasota the other week and couldn’t believe how busy it was.. when the last time I flew out of there in 2008 it was like no mans land.. I also flew out of smaller Punta Gorda airport recently which Allegiant flys out of and it was stunning how busy that little airport was the line just to get in took me awhile and then the airport was absolutely packed.. and this airport doesn’t even have a gates ,, you walk out and onto steps and then into the Plane..Also, I’ve noticed there aren’t as many direct flights for whatever reason so you now have way more connecting flights all over the place
You see this is almost all U.S. industries where profit and stock prices are the most important thing, as well.
1: They hire specialists to improve their efficiency and save money.
2: The "Experts" tell them that their largest expenditure after new construction ( or planes in this case ) is payroll. So they "trim" payroll or decide to not hire replacements for what they see as non-critical roles.
3: ATC personnel are seen as basically glorified customer service by management. So they have to take extra shifts or wear more hats as it were. Note that the U.S. average is about 35K a year - they are paid like customer service as well. The FAA could easily hire more but they are obviously seen as non-critical by management if they are being overworked and under-paid like that.
4: Rather than lower the number of flights at an airport due to low staffing, they pack in every last flight that they can anyways as profit is everything. Which leads to understaffed, over-worked, and doing more than their original job entailed ATC people making mistakes as flights take off and land every minute, all day long. You never see airports or airlines cancel flights due to staffing issues, barring a complete lack of personnel for some reason. Understaffed that day means just doing more work. As anyone who has watched planes coming in at a major airport knows, there is an endless queue of planes landing all day long and ATC people are basically a call center at that point - juggling customers as quickly as possible. Way too many planes way too close to each other.
5: They do the same with pilots as well, pushing them a little more and and little more and oh, just this once, a little more, which results in more late and early flights when they might not be as awake/having problems staying fully alert.
Because communist countries are so much more safe and efficient, LOL. Go fly on Cuba's airline and get back to me, comrade.
Then why does the us not have privatized airports and privatized ATC like Europe where these issues aren’t happening?
@@benchoflemons398 Good question. My guess is that many decades ago it was like that and the government found that a lot of mistakes were being made. This government controlled system works well until budget cuts and 20 year old salary tables are repeatedly not updated. Most ATC are making $15-$20 an hour, and in many states like California and New York, just a couple of dollars an hour more than minimum wage. It's one to the worst paid government jobs in the U.S. when you compare the training, duties, and stress.
Thanks for saying this. This is rampant not only in the airline industry but everywhere. You and Gail Peterson said what we're really thinking about this situation.
@@nty3929 Note that "25 to 50 an hour" in Government-speak means that that's the pay range for that pay grade based on time spent AT that pay grade. Meaning that you start at 25 an hour, no haggling, no options, 100% of the time, at year 0. Then you slowly work up to the highest range after .. not making this up.. 20 years. This is what I meant and thought was understood. Government wages are horrendous unless you are one of the lucky few who has been there for 20+ years in a position. For new people, the starting wages of 17-25 an hour is the reality, depending on the state. They have to put in many years to get to the top of their pay grade and for people entering NOW, it's not going to keep up with inflation versus other options. (plus what person under 25/this current generation wants to have the same govt job for 20 years?) So they have a hard time attracting young workers. Older workers like myself see little value as we get 0 credit for other government positions. So a lateral move is not an option.
There was a recent collision in HOU Hobby airport where a corporate jet departed without a clearance and clipped a landing citation jet. No one was hurt.
I just read that there's a maximum age at time of hire of 31 for ATCs. That doesn't help with filling the vacant seats.
‘Just general aviation’. Ouch! We’re pilots too!
Wow. Excellent, thoughtful video. This brought a lot of ideas together in one place. I love hearing the opinion of someone close to the action. The brief recaps of some recent incidents was a good addition.
lowering of standard in USA is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how much this guy try to downplay it, perhaps for political reasons (Perhaps he, as many Europeans are led to believe that everyone right of Kamala Harris in US are a far right extremist little Hitler as the media has made you believe )… Every cooperation in US has a large chunk of its investments determined by Diversity-Equity-Inclusion scores and racial quotas that discriminate against white males are still in effect in the federal sector , all of which are in essence metrics to see how much less straight white men they are hiring.. (I'm not a white man, so I have no dog in this fight, but its a fact)
Yes, all pilots and ATCs has to pass exams, but there's a difference between barely passing and being well versed, experienced and good at a career... Think of good lawyers and lawyers who has barely cleared their bar exam. when you deliberately make your hiring pool smaller (most DEI metrics demand at least 50% women and racial/ sexual minorities be hired to lucrative federal positions in USA, while out of the total applicants only a minority would be such individuals ), the statistical likelihood of having to select sub standard workers among them increase...
One thing they need to change ASAP in the US is giving a landing clearance when there is other traffic on the runway!! Or phrases such as “Number 2, cleared to land”. Cleared to land should simply mean you are actually cleared to land now!!
Your suggestion isn’t addressing a safety issue. There is no safety issue when controllers issue landing clearances to multiple aircraft.
Also, issuing a landing clearance along with something like, “where are you parking” so the pilots at times don’t even read back the landing clearance.
You are 100% correct. Never did I refuse and landing clearance when told number X when flying nor did any pilot refuse a landing clearance when told number x that I used working in the Tower. It is very safe.@@danhamilton2676
Hard disagree. This allows controllers to plan ahead instead of waiting until the aircraft is 100ft off the ground to assign a landing clearance. Just because you are cleared to land doesn't mean things can't change into a go-around instruction. Also, if I remember correctly, not all airports are able to do this, depending on what type of equipment they have in the cab.
Totally they put the onus on the pilot. Whereas most other places in the world you can’t get a clearance to land on a runway that isn’t clear 😂😂 such a stupid way of doing things.
One thing that I've noticed listening to ATC/Pilot communication is the change of terminology used now compared to when I started flying over 50 years ago. When I got my Commercial and Dispatcher License, "Position and Hold" was used instead of "Line up and Wait." "Position and Hold" sounds more like a command while "Line up and Wait" sounds like a request. "Hold" would probably stick in your mind better when the frequency is busy.
What about 'line up and hold'?
@@xeldinn86 "Line" is also used by Ground Control like in, "Get in line behind the Company passing you now and follow to the gate."
I would argue that in some cases the 1500 hour rule LOWERS the quality of new commercial pilots. They become fixated on doing anything they can to get hours, rather than quality flying.
Experience is no substitute for old fashioned lQ, unfortunately.
I doubt if it’s recruitment. Many of the pilots screwing up are very experienced. I think it’s a mixture of things. Taking things for granted, short staff in the control tower, more flights. Etc.
Another excellent topic. Here’s a suggestion for another video: the increasing numbers of GPS jamming and more recently GPS spoofing events encountered in eastern EU and Middle East due to the spreading of the current conflict zones.
The current fleet of aircraft is barely equipped to face/detect such type of threat (as military equipment are more advanced and readily available) and I personally experienced a couple of concerning events (Map Shifts, loss of GPS capabilities, spurious GPWS warning in cruise, etc…).
Worth an investigation to raise public concern IMHO
Is the position data in an airplane computer not interconnected / checked with the the IMU data?
"…The gatekeeper role is far too important for that." Those are nice ideals, but one's ideals can quickly dissolve under corporate pressure or fear of losing one's job. "If I don't follow these metrics closely, I'll lose my job and my ability to provide for my family."
In my opinion situation awareness matters more than the flight hours
There is a correlation between experience and situational awareness
Yes, but how do you measure that. Flight hours are a consistent standard you can measure
I think the “quality” of hours is much more important. I’d rather fly with a 700 hour King Air driver compared to a 1500 hour instructor. These instructors don’t know shit but think they do, that’s the main issue IMO
@@Rblazeryeah instructor hours count for nothing in my book. Basically have 200 hours
@@chrisstaples182 yep agreed with you
I enjoy how MentorPilot has such a good, professional, and yet easily understandable approach to speaking about the airline industry. One question I have after seeing this video is what is MentorPilot’s take on what happened to the Air Traffic Controllers (ATC) beginning on August 5, 1981 that affected the airline industry when Reagan fired the 11,359 air-traffic controllers who had not returned to work after Reagan broke up the ATC union. For the record, Regan also declared a lifetime ban on the rehiring of the strikers by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). One would assume that this had to have had an affect on safety at that time in the airline industry. But, to what extent. And how if in any way does this compare with what is currently happening with the hiring and appropriate training for ATC hires? When I was in the Air Force, many years ago I used to have a friend who worked in the Denver Stapleton ATC tower. I visited him there once. That is a very challenging job to do as you have so much responsibility for so many lives and you cannot afford to make any mistakes. Ever since then I have had the greatest respect for those working in ATC.
lowering of standard in USA is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how much this guy try to downplay it, perhaps for political reasons (Perhaps he, as many Europeans are led to believe that everyone right of Kamala Harris in US are a far right extremist little Hitler as the media has made you believe )… Every cooperation in US has a large chunk of its investments determined by Diversity-Equity-Inclusion scores , all of which are in essence metrics to see how much less straight white men they are hiring.. And racial quotas that discriminate against white males are still in effect in the federal sector , (I'm not a white man, so I have no dog in this fight, but its a fact)
Yes, all pilots and ATCs has to pass exams, but there's a difference between barely passing and being well versed, experienced and good at a career... Think of good lawyers and lawyers who has barely cleared their bar exam. when you deliberately make your hiring pool smaller (most DEI metrics demand at least 50% women and racial/ sexual minorities be hired to lucrative federal positions in USA, while out of the total applicants only a minority would be such individuals ), the statistical likelihood of having to select sub standard workers among them increase...
A very well thought out analysis when it would have been easy for you to just slam the system. It’s refreshing to see there are still people like yourself capable of making balanced, intelligent arguments. Breeze flies to my hometown and I didn’t even know they flew ERJ’s. I’ve only ever seen the A220’s. Good stuff!
It's getting to the point that line up and wait is going to have to be eliminated. If it gets much worse airports will have to put gates up like those at a train crossing!
Retractable bollards, like we have on many city streets.
And people STILL end up on train tracks 😵💫
Have you seen American drivers at train crossings?
LUAW is not allowed at many airports in the US.
The "cancel if its not profitable" also is a good way to have poor customer relations - I know a few people who have sworn to never take some of these small airlines or avoid some airports because they got stranded for days of cancellation the one return flight a day and had to finally rent a car to drive back over a few days. If you can't depend on your flight happening you can't risk taking the flight.
That would be difficult near the arctic circle and in countries like Greenland. -We just accept that weather conditions are the bosses of any flight. If I'm to translate to the bigger picture the climate change events will be the bosses of everywhere. We all have to adapt to that reality and get used to interferences and that flights are canceled and rebooked.
Petter, I'd rather listen to you rant than anyone else's "facts". I'd consider you calling something "bullshit" to be something I'm taking seriously. Positive attiude, brother.
Thank you
@@MentourNowplease read my comment.
lowering of standard in USA is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how much this guy try to downplay it, perhaps for political reasons (Perhaps he, as many Europeans are led to believe that everyone right of Kamala Harris in US are a far right extremist little Hitler as the media has made you believe )… Every cooperation in US has a large chunk of its investments determined by Diversity-Equity-Inclusion scores and racial quotas that discriminate against white males are still in effect in the federal sector , all of which are in essence metrics to see how much less straight white men they are hiring.. (I'm not a white man, so I have no dog in this fight, but its a fact)
Yes, all pilots and ATCs has to pass exams, but there's a difference between barely passing and being well versed, experienced and good at a career... Think of good lawyers and lawyers who has barely cleared their bar exam. when you deliberately make your hiring pool smaller (most DEI metrics demand at least 50% women and racial/ sexual minorities be hired to lucrative federal positions in USA, while out of the total applicants only a minority would be such individuals ), the statistical likelihood of having to select sub standard workers among them increase...
Petter keeps talking about Czech airmen, what about Polish or Spanish Airmen?
Groan!
FAA requirements are ludicrous which has left a large lack of controllers. Same with pilots. Ever been treated for depression? Nope, you're done. It's nuts.
It’s called hub-and-spoke. This operating model in the US refers to a system of air transportation in which local airports offer flights to a central airport where international or long-distance flights are available. Each airline has their own “hub” airports. For example United Airline’s largest hub is Denver International Airport. And its second largest hub is Chicago O'Hare. Other hubs include Newark (NYC region) and Denver and Washington
Thanks for the very interesting video, Petter. Just a minor comment: WestJet is a full service airline serving almost every Canadian province, much of the US and also some European cities. It isn’t a leisure airline.
There was a close call at LaGuardia on Thursday.
As an ATC in the UK it blows my mind to hear a tower controller in the US clearing multiple aircraft to land at once. Maybe it's my naivety of being an area controller not fully understanding the requirements of tower controllers but it seems to me that you should only "clear" an aircraft to land when it is actually CLEAR to land. I feel like this is a huge problem when you have 3 or 4 a/c on the ils on approach and all are cleared to land
You are soooo right...👍
2:30 - nancy bradshaw (united) was almost 100hrs into OEI (almost 3x the average) and managed to destroy the crown of a 767 on a clear calm day. They had many previous failures in heavies and check ride.
ATC talking like auctioneers or horse race commentators! You nailed it, Mentour 😊.
Indeed.
Not just near misses. In October there was a high speed collision at HOU between 2 business jets.
18,000hr bizjet pilot here. Instead of “line up and wait”, which I find a little loose, perhaps “line up and hold”. Seems more direct, like an order. In our cockpit, we only turn the landing lights on once takeoff clearance has been received. Currently flying a G650 and I have to say the line checklist is a little long, so there is a “hurried” atmosphere generated by the crew to get items done before power up. This creates a situation where the crew is involved in checklist items, Important, and ATC instructions, REALLY important, but there is a distraction going on. Cockpit duties, and ATC instructions. Juggling both balls so to speak. On another note, you mentioned that the landing Citation was given a clearance to land early on. This is a age old ATC thing in the USA. If memory serves me correctly, it is in place for the reason when radios were first installed there was a high rate of failure with them. So, ATC decided that as soon as an aircraft makes contact with the control tower, they will clear you to land in the event of a radio failure, lost comms. They did not want you wandering around the sky figuring out what your going to do. Instead, go straight in and land.
As a training Captain I fully agree that we would not sign off on any pilot who doesn't perform to standard, even if we don't chose the new hires we do have a say if they get released into the line. There was yet another close call with a landing aircraft and another one taking off without clearance, this involved two business jets that actually did have a mid-air. Miraculously both landed safely. In my humble opinion the majority of these cases involved missed or misunderstood communications. This is the major factor that needs work and solutions.
"Industry inspected itself and industry is fine"
The other day I was doing touch and gos at Tucson international and the tower controller sounded like he was gonna fall asleep at any second. The good news is a new controller came in after around 20 minutes.
Great video again! And truly detailed! However, I would like to mention that these new strategies also have to do with huge economic rules: slot values, less airport taxation for carriers, less congested airports (which means on-time arrivals and departures), less complicated ruling for the passenger regarding loyalty programmes, access to lounges, etc, passengers satisfaction with the carrier (with repeating experiences), less crowded queues at the security check, and many more (I do not wish to extend myself).
That issue was kinda an odd one, let me explain, south west is known for taxi and go, they don’t wait once clearance is given. As this kinda became the norm in most airport they operate in. The problem is also the key word, as most controller would’ve probably gotten used to it, during high operation they might given clearance to southwest thinking that they would start take off roll immediately upon entering the runway but this was not the case in this incident. The pilot has the final say on when to start their take off roll and the controller played in to complacency, thus the human error strikes again.
I can imagine that a different way of communicating some messages might be a real big benefit. Right now, essentially there's a hard limit on the amount of instructions that can be transferred in a sector, since only one person can be communicating at the same time. It would be interesting to see what it'd be like if some communications (for instance heading, altitude and change frequency) could be communicated through text.
Perhaps a telemetry type duplication of critical instructions like landing/ takeoff clearance and runway numbers.
Just like many other industries the pressure to meet deadlines/ profit can affect good decision making. The difference in aviation is that the consequences can be catastrophic. Will the paying public accept a higher price ticket to reduce the number of flights to a safer level ? If there is a risk the plane I'm on might be side swiped by an incoming jet then I'd pay.
I for one would. Commercial flying has become too mainstream. I’d happily fly less/pay more for higher safety standards. This may very well be the only way forward if they can’t recruit/train quality professionals quick enough.
We need 'Check Policeman', 'Check Journalist' and more than anything 'Check Presidential Candidates'.
Good point...I agree with you 👍
I recall being told there's a cut off age for HIRE at as an ATC when I thought about becoming one in my mid 20s and was told the clock was ticking. It's just like with many police forces and fire departments around the US where they cut off age of hiring in the late 20s.
Best aviation channel I love learning about aviation I could watch and listen to you for hours you explain things so well and make it easy for everyone to understand thank you so much for all your amazing work ! Sending love from Quebec City Canada ! ❤️✈️
Having flown heavy freighters all over the world I have noticed this issue with US controllers. They are enormously talented but I do find their rapid fire, cocky "Maverick-style" radio style to be at times confusing, arrogant and oft time condescending. This is especially to foreign crews who may get confused by rapid fire instructions and then complete comprehension breakdown when slang, and tongue lashing takes place. Btw, I'm an American pilot.
Not once have I ever had an issue overseas with attitude. Oft times there may be an accent issue or unfamiliarity confusion but this was always handled professionally, calmly, in a conversational tone that did not require speed listening and writing skills.
other issues in US, crossing runway arr/dep. Trying to squeeze in one more..., no standard taxi routes at many places and too much hand holding by controllers...use SIDS and STARS and only speak when a conflict exists.. would lead to a lot less talking over one another.
These last couple months have been a real eye opener in regards to ATC. The SFO/Lufthansa incident was over the top.
This video really highlights the potential dangers of near collisions on the ground in aviation. It's concerning to see how the current system may contribute to these close calls and how different the EU and NA systems work to each other. I hope that the aviation sector gets some more ressources and attention from the US and the Govermentsectos. Thank you for shedding some light on this issue. Safety should always be a top priority in aviation!
To qualify my opinion below I'll include a little bit of a personal backgrounder.
I'm a retired career air carrier ATP. who was fortunate / unfortunate enough to be seconded to serve for several years as a 'Participant Investigator' on a Government led major air carrier accident investigation team.
And although I'm no longer actively involved in the industry, I do continue to maintain an ever keen interest in everything related to aircraft operations.
I subscribe to this channel because I appreciate the informed, fair & balanced perspective presented and especially the approach to analysis followed in all Mentour productions.
However, a comment / attribution was made during the current discussion which was intended to place 'Check Airmen atop a high pedestal, which I believe is largely undeserved.
While there have always been class acts within 'all' pilot ranks, in practice, like Line Pilots most Trainers / CP's are technically average at best and far too many of Trainer / CP's are appointed to fulfill some sort of quota, but will never have the ability and knowledge base to contribute much of anything positive towards the advancement of the Profession.
I do not think that the 1500 hour rule for pilots is necessary. You want experience not time. Also I believe that the standard of ATC trying to push departures and arrivals closer and closer is getting out of hand. I mean it’s not all the controllers fault they’re trying to keep traffic flowing in a busy airport. The FAA needs to think over some rules. Love your vids man keep it up 👍
It’s refreshing to hear some cursing come from you. Strong language is indeed necessary sometimes
Earned my first job in aviation in Europe flying with LX. Now work for a major US carrier flying 737s since 2016. Both systems have their blind spots. 28 years in the industry and have seen a lot. Love your videos.
Great research and superb presentation. Back when I was flying with the USAF, I made a point to visit a local ATC facility a couple of times and watch controllers. What an incredibly difficult and high stress environment even a local facility was -- 40 years ago! These people are dedicated and special, and not just anybody can do the job. Their minds have to have the rare capability to hold "the picture" of all the things going on. As someone earlier pointed out, only about 1 in 200 makes it through the process. I would love to see a Mentour Now presentation on ATC and on controllers (really two different-but-related topics), but it might take several installments. The way you put your presentations together, I believe the results would be fascinating.
Memories.... a story that horrified me in New Haven
Like any other kid, I wanted to become a pilot but mom vehemently opposed the idea. So I saved up for my license, and finally had enough when I was a collage junior. Called and setup an orientation with a flight school at this very airport in New Haven. Paid my $20 gas fees and off we go. After take off, the instructor was explaining things and I listened as if I didn't already know. Then he asked if I wanted to try it. "SURE" I said. We were going south, so he asked me to turn the plane north to go back to the airport. For about 10 minutes, I was doing great and he just sat there looking at me smiling. Then he asked if I had done any flying before? "Yep, I've logged an hour plus in MS Flight Simulator on my IBM PCjr 😂".
I couldn't make out the airport even though he was pointing at it. Then he took control and lined up with the runway to land. But when we were below 100 feet (I think), crosswind kicked the mosquito 30-50 feet away from the runway. He quickly lined up again, but below 50 feet gust did it again but not as far as the last time. He again lined up and continued his descent. That's when I asked in horror: are you still gonna land?
A few seconds later he slams the plane onto the tarmac and says "yep, today is a nice day to fly!!! ".
As soon as we got off, I hightailed it outta there and never looked back.
Mom was right, it's a job for (people on a mission😄). Sorry Petter, but who in his right mind would want to do this every day, for a living!
It's like a roller coaster ride, you enjoy doing it every once in a while but not every day.
Flying as getting dangerous, it's a matter of time before a major disaster.
Breeze was always planning to have a fleet of a220s. The E-jets were a way to get the airline started prior to receiving new planes.
Having both FAA and EASA licenses, EASA/CAA does it better 100%, especially ATC. Seems here in the States ATC have an authority complex and also need to learn standard ICAO phraseology. Had a controller on a 5am departure in HNL (nobody on frequency) speaking faster than Eminem's "Rap God", just to add to her "cool" factor I guess, a totally useless and unsafe practice we see too often in aviation today. Cool is flying your whole career without an accident/ incident, flying under the radar, and retiring alive.
Absolutely, once stopped the B777F on a taxiway at JFK because the NY gnd controller was incomprehensible in his Brooklyn accent and mile a minute banter. When asked why I stopped I said I didn't catch is last instructions as they were so fast no one could understand if they weren't ready for the call and he didn't pause a second afterwards. I just figured he would eventually get back to me.
Europeans like to think their airports are busy but look up the busiest airports by aircraft movements: 9 of the top 10 are in the USA. You have no idea how many more planes US controllers handle and how good they are at moving traffic.
A good example is the Lufthansa A350 into SFO a few weeks ago. LH says their pilots aren’t allowed to do visuals at night and the controller purposefully put them into the hold until they were forced to divert to avoid a fuel emergency.
There has been a massive shortage or personal, be it pilots, mechanics, etc and the FAA is weakening the standards to push more people through. I just experienced this with AMT school, as I was graduating the FAA switched from the PTS system to the ACS system, and changed alot of the curriculum and while some of it makes sense some is pretty stupid. 1 of the things I witnessed a few months ago with the change in curriculum was that during reciprocating engines class, they are no longer disassembling an entire engine and learning all the parts, and looking for issues, and having to search for the parts in the IPC or having to rebuild it, all with proper torques and specs. Which just blows my mind. I spoke with 1 of my instructors who told me more of the changes and he said theyre putting alot less emphasis on the practical side and more on the knowledge side. And when I asked why wouldnt they want the newbie to get as much hands on experience as they can while at school so they dont have to put taught basic mechanical things once they start work, and he said because some idiot desk sitting teachers, and administrators think they know best. Its bad enough most of the people going through these schools are moronic, weed smoking jack@$$es but now they get even less experience.
lowering of standard in USA is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how much this guy try to downplay it, perhaps for political reasons (Perhaps he, as many Europeans are led to believe that everyone right of Kamala Harris in US are a far right extremist little Hitler as the media has made you believe )… Every cooperation in US has a large chunk of its investments determined by Diversity-Equity-Inclusion scores , all of which are in essence metrics to see how much less straight white men they are hiring.. And racial quotas that discriminate against white males are still in effect in the federal sector , (I'm not a white man, so I have no dog in this fight, but its a fact)
Yes, all pilots and ATCs has to pass exams, but there's a difference between barely passing and being well versed, experienced and good at a career... Think of good lawyers and lawyers who has barely cleared their bar exam. when you deliberately make your hiring pool smaller (most DEI metrics demand at least 50% women and racial/ sexual minorities be hired to lucrative federal positions in USA, while out of the total applicants only a minority would be such individuals ), the statistical likelihood of having to select sub standard workers among them increase...
@@kurger100 So we're supposed to believe you, a random person on CZcams who did not provide a single peer-reviewed source for your "facts", over Peter, an actual pilot with years of experience both flying and training? I don't think so.
@amyparker9816 or you could do some research and find out for yourself
If this seems bad, look at UK ATC. It is TERRIBLE. In typical 80-90's UK style, the government invites private capital to fund a public service. The result is today NATS is 45% owned by EasyJet, BA, LH and other airlines with the notable exception of Ryanair - which is Europe's biggest airline and NATS biggest customer. NATS is a shitshow with staffing levels which have reduced activity at Gatwick and a HUGE outage in August which left 100's of thousands of passengers stranded for up to a week and big costs to airlines which have a duty of care to passengers but with no control over the cause of the outage!! O'Leary says out loud what the other airlines are thinking: NATS systems are rubbish and strategic errors have been made. Why don't the other airlines say this? (EZ whispers it) They are shareholders in the outfit, approved the management appointments, sit on the board and a loss in value would also reflect on their books. It is the worst of all worlds. O'Leary is correct!
Interesting. I was in that gate keeper role as a truck driver trainer. I was informed by my dispatcher that if I kept failing students I might lose my trainer status. I needed the money. I passed drivers who were technically okay but I had doubts about. One of them killed a person in a crosswalk. He had a green light. No charges. But I knew he wasn't very good with observation or reaction time. That's me. If I could do that I imagine others could too.
Great video! For the San Diego Incident, that controller was working tower, ground and clearance at the same time. Also VASaviation has all of the audio for these and that could be a helpful place to analyze these accidents too.
With the incidents happening frequently, it seems that the passing minimum bar for both pilots and ATC should be increased, especially for radio communications. And the method of having two planes share the same runway (one landing and one about to take off) should be stopped.
This is exactly the sort of thinking that led to the ATC and pilot shortage in the first place. Ironically, increasing qualifications results in less qualified people higher up in the organization. Increasing requirements means fewer qualified people available to fill these positions, which is why pilots and ATC controllers with moderate experience are finding themselves promoted into highly experienced positions much earlier in their career.
The problem isn't lax qualifications. The problem is a general staffing shortage. There aren't any entry level positions available anymore. The push for more strict requirements means there's a dramatic shortage of people to staff those positions. Which leads to sleep deprivation, overworking, and other stress that makes even the most experienced people make these kinds of critical mistakes. No humans can operate without mistakes for years in an environment with high stress. This is clearly seen in one of the incidents, where the highly experienced 30k hour pilot made a bad call because he was working while he was sick. Increasing requirements will only make those types of incidents happen more often.
Really, what the industry needs is a pay increase and better recruiting and hiring programs to bring in fresh recruits. And better retention programs to keep their most experienced pilots from leaving, like so many experienced pilots did during the pandemic. The pandemic was a rare event, but it exposed critical failures in the airline industry to hire and retain qualified people. The staffing shortages and stress-related incidents are the real problem, not the requirements for hiring those people.
As Mentor Pilot mentioned, the incredibly high hourly requirement means there's a dramatic shortage of people who are even bothering to try and become pilots. Ironically, reducing the hour requirement for flying would allow more people to try and become pilots, which means airlines can afford to be more selective about who they hire. The current 30% staffing shortage is what's causing airlines, pilots, and ATC to be less strict about who they hire, in spite of the rules that tell them to be strict. Reduce the hour requirement for pilots, pay them more, and suddenly you reduce the stress that's causing many of these incidents.
What about enforcing ICAO communication and phraseology rules that already exist??
@@mangos2888 ICAO will likely never be used in the US, despite it clearly being a far more superior and easy to understand phraseology.
@@alexlowe2054 I understand that increasing the minimum bar cannot fix things if you're willing to let things slip.
If minimum bar is raised and if qualified staff cannot be found, the airport must be closed. Nowadays you let the minimum requirements slip because you're "forced" to do that.
If the legislation in the US cannot prevent overworking or sleep deprevation, that legislation must be fixed, too.
Here in Finland, some professionals are arguing that the legislation is too strict and they feel that they could do longer workdays but the legislation doesn't allow that. I guess the optimal regulation would be somewhere in between but at least the regulation here results in safety.
@@mangos2888 The question is *who is going to monitor and enforce* the ICAO communication and phraseology rules?
The FAA appears to be very out to lunch on a number of issues including pilot training, ATC workload/staffing/congestion and pilot mental health. I fly for a Canadian airline and it is definitely interesting seeing the differences in ATC procedures. You'll be cleared to land the instant you check in with Newark or Boston tower with an airplane on approach ahead of you and one just touching down. A couple hours later come back to Canada and the tower controller will not clear you to land until the preceding arrival has exited the runway or departing aircraft has lifted off.
When I saw this vid, immediately remembered the vid about the San Diego incident. Lots of folks in the comment section talking about how these incursions and close calls are happening more frequently, calling out controllers doing these Line Up and Waits or quick launches with another aircraft already on in the slot on close final.
In another vid from 74Gear's CZcams channel, he mentions Southwest's cultural reputation for being fast with the line up and immediate take-offs with their usual narrow body aircraft, so (some) controllers do it with Southwest, and those pilots are down with it to keep things moving, save taxi/idle fuel, etc. Money is the underlying dynamic.
When corporations push DIE policies, they mean it
Another brilliant video, with easy-to-understand explanations, presented with confidence and no click-bait. Truly excellent. Thank you.
Hotel-Victor-November!!! Love the convenience of the Avelo flights. Just picked up my wife and son last night. Probably not fun living in the neighborhood. And the short runway makes for rough landings.
But it’s still my home airport-where I even logged a few takeoffs and landings a long time ago.
I have no direct knowledge, but have read that the US Federal Government gave money to airlines so that they would not layoff pilots. The story is that the airlines took the money and then offered voluntary retirement packages, which many pilots took. This action, apparently not anticipated by the government, was allowed.
The whole talking point about "we're seeing shittier pilots because of diversity metrics" is deeply rooted in a belief that less represented demographics (women, black people, brown people etc) are somehow inherently less skilled and capable than their more prevalent counterparts. We've had this rubbish in medicine as well (I am a doctor). I'm happy you pointed out the stupidity of this argument immediately.
Excellent comment sir......
White and Asian men are inherently more likely to be skilled at this, just a fact. Sorry, reality is racist
Always fascinating topics! You mentioned something (NY ATC speaking rapidly) that I've always wondered, the understandability of communications between pilots and ATC. I appreciate that ultimately, they learn how to communicate effectively with each other. But it seems nearly impossible to understand and in any stressful conditions, would be even more so. I'm not sure which is more unsettling between that and and bad penmanship on prescriptions. Kinda joking but not really...
Honestly, it's *typically* not a problem for most of the traffic (there is the occasional controller that's problematic to understand, but that's true pretty much everywhere.) The bigger problem (especially at airports like JFK) is when they try to talk like that to foreign pilots, especially those from some parts of Asia. Unfortunately, there is also a real problem with certain Asian airlines hiring pilots that realistically aren't anywhere near the level of English proficiency that ICAO requires them to have for international operations... and then they send these pilots to some of the most dense and complex airspace in the world, such as JFK. Most controllers there will automatically speak more slowly when communicating with those pilots, but sometimes they will still speak quickly and it will be difficult for the pilots who already don't have the required level of English proficiency to understand.
I would also note that what you hear on LiveATC isn't necessarily representative of what the pilots are actually hearing. The planes and ATC facilities typically have an unobstructed line-of-sight to each other's antennas, especially when the aircraft is airborne. The LiveATC receivers are on the ground, though, so often have buildings or even the Earth in between them at ATC's transmit antennas, so their reception is often much worse than what the pilots have. While aviation radios are definitely not crystal clear (for lots of technical reasons,) they're much clearer than it might seems from listening to LiveATC recordings.
@@vbscript2that's a really good point about liveATC that I hadn't considered. Cheers!
There are a very regulated vocabulary and phraseology that is used to minimize the risk of misunderstandings. Each clearance always uses the exact same phrases so everyone knows what to listen for and what to expect.
@@haqvorYes, that's how it should be. But listening back to many of these incidents that's seemingly not always the case.
Would somebody please explain to me why "line up and wait" continues to be used? If "hold short of runway x" were always used instead, followed by "cleared for takeoff", wouldn't that avoid (a) planes sitting on the end of the runway and (b) pilots imagining they are cleared for takeoff when they were actually ordered to wait?
"Line up and wait" and "hold short" mean different things. Line up and wait means get onto the runway and sit there awaiting your clearance, hold short means wait on the taxiway off the runway
@@canadaman301 Yes that's exactly what I said. Having planes sitting on the end of the runway seems like a bad idea, plus apparently pilots told to line up and wait have a tendency to get confused and imagine they are cleared to take off. Hence some of these near collisions. Eliminating the line up and wait by telling them to hold short and then giving them takeoff clearance (meaning "move onto the runway and then go immediately").
A UK perspective (I'm a UK ATC controller) on the 'cleared to land' on an occupied runway:
In the UK we can't do the whole 'number 4, cleared to land' thing that happens in the US, I assume that it is the same for Europe as well. I get that in the US ATC is using anticipated separation, ie the previous landing aircraft will have vacacted the runway before the next one touches down. Provided that the approach controller has done a decent job sequencing on final approach this should never be an issue. It might get tight but not unsafe as the vacating aircraft will be further down the runway. The closest thing we have to that in the UK is the 'land after' instruction which puts the onus on the pilot to land with something vacating further down and certain visual parameters are satisfied. There's also 'land after the departing' which is used at Heathrow and Gatwick, which again, has strict weather parameters and the departure has to be already rolling and a certain distance down the runway.
What I cant understand is a landing aircraft being cleared to land, when the controller still has an intention of lining a departure up and clearing them for takeoff. It's not failsafe for either party if the controller becomes distracted or forgets the situation (like the San Diego example). There's quite a big assumption here that the everything will go to plan. Luckily the arrival saw that the runway was occupied and initiated their own go around, but if it was worse weather, or the aircraft on the runway was a tiny C152 or something.
I don't buy the fact that these procedures are necessary in the US because things are busier. Heathrow and JFK have very similar amount of aircraft movements (450K-480K per year) and use a similar runway setup (one for arrivals, one for departures, I know that JFK has 4 runways but I think I'm right in thinking most of the time they operate in pairs). For arrivals, they are both operating at max runway occupancy for most of the day. Yet Heathrow manages with clearing each one to land one at a time, using the land after instruction sparingly.
Gatwick is the busiest single runway operation in the world and they would never clear anything to land with a departure lined up sitting on the threshold without a take off clearance. It's busy, but they manage just fine.
I have to disagree with the basis for this video. I have been flying as a passenger since the early 1960s, and have taken sharp notice of the changes surrounding air travel in this country. In America, all airlines originally operated on a point-to-point system or direct-route system until the U.S. Congress deregulated the airlines in 1978; allowing them to set their own fares and routes. Following deregulation, most of the country’s major carriers adopted a more economical hub-and-spoke route system, which allowed for multiple spokes, or routes, to connect to designated hub airports.
This hub-and-spoke system was very successful and economically sound for the major carriers until the numbers of American air passengers increased exponentially in the late 1980s and 1990s, making upstart low-cost airlines like Southwest Airlines and US Airways extremely versatile and successful when they reintroduced the more European point-to-point system.
To address what I believe is causing the uptick in near accidents around US airports has little to nothing to do with pilot training, numbers, or quality. Unlike Europe, the US does not have an established passenger rail system that is able to move passengers to remote sectors of this huge and diverse geographic area. Therefore, while Europe may have a greater overall population, there are more Americans traveling by air than their European counterparts and the supporting infrastructure is beginning to feel the strain.
US Statistics: www.statista.com/statistics/197801/total-us-airline-passenger-enplanements-since-2004/
European Statistics: ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Air_transport_statistics
To manage the continued increase in passengers served in the US, current hub and regional airports are going to have to be expanded and technologically updated, additional qualified ATCs will have to be trained and hired, and perhaps the institution of a temporary hold on new routes being approved by the FAA should be considered until the first two issues are resolved. 😎
Cheers,
Gail Peterson
Exactly, lots of commies in these comments don't remember air travel before deregulation. Because government is immune from the failings of mankind that occur in business! 🤣
Excellent analysis, thank you. I completely agree. The U.S. has no other real infrastructure like high speed trains to move people around in a timely manner - and now the system is at it's limits or over.
When politics become policy.
You can tell me forever that Check Airmen take their job seriously and would never allow an unqualified pilot to sit in the cockpit... but your own video library has examples where people who were wholly unsuited for the job due to personality issues ended up causing incidents and even accidents. So you really can't convince me that the gatekeeper job is perfect.
Since the gatekeeper job is not perfectly handled, I must presume that changes in hiring priorities will indeed be the change that allows people entirely unsuited to flying to slip by.
I always appreciate your in depth and calm videos like this, which provide important context to these incidents, and how the industry might address the causes.
A twin-engine Hawker H25B departed without permission from Runway 22 @HobbyAirport houston TX. at 4 PM Oct. 25 when it collided with a twin-engine Cessna C510 that was landing on Runway 13 Right.
Good analysis overall.
I would also note that one of the things that has likely been slowing down properly filling the ranks of ATCOs in the U.S. recently has been an unfortunate trend of hiring (or trying to hire) unqualified leadership at the highest levels. The current U.S. Secretary of Transportation is a politician who previously had literally no experience in transportation beyond dealing with city streets as Mayor of the small-to-medium-sized town of South Bend, Indiana and has been using the job more as a platform for campaigning for future elected office rather than for actually managing the nation's transportation needs, including the FAA staff shortage. He's been quick to grand stand about any problem the airlines may have, but has barely addressed the problems his own organization is facing. Then, to make matters worse, someone with virtually no aviation experience (nearly his entire career was managing local transit in Denver and LA) was nominated to be Administrator of the FAA as a political favor because he worked on the current President's campaign. Even quite a few in his own party (which controls the Senate) thought he wasn't qualified and waited quite a long time to even begin confirmation hearings, which he ultimately failed. As a result, the FAA went quite a long time with no Senate-confirmed Administrator to run the agency, with lower-ranked agency official having to fill the roll on an extended interim basis.
Painful, but factual.
Youve made me an aviation enthusiast. Watched every one of your videos. Really intersting and well explained. Thanks mate