Troll VS Undead - Classic WoW: Best Priest Race?
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- == Troll VS Undead Pros/Cons ==
▼ Timestamps:
0:57 Intro
1:21 Shadowguard
5:00 Hex of Weakness
6:49 Berserking
8:52 Misc/Cons (Troll)
12:30 Undead Intro
13:07 Will of the Forsaken
14:02 Touch of Weakness
15:16 Devouring Plague
19:21 Misc/Cons (Undead)
23:17 Outro
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I'm glad that you give the trolls some love here. They're an endangered species after all
You forgot to mention regeneration for Trolls. Insanely good for priests while leveling because it increases on spirit. Which you have tons of as a priest while leveling due to spirit tap.
Thanks for the vid Kala! Very informative, keep the good work up :)
Finally, been waiting for this one.
Just wanted to go to bed and you drop this bad boy...
Damn I wish I had seen this before starting my undead Spriest, nice video
Thanks for video
Very informative! love it. Any update since 2 month ?
This is the best comparison I've seen of the two. Rational, logical and legit. I love UD so much... but troll have amazing racials for exactly these reasons.
Hey mate appreciate these videos! Any chance you might do an update video on how you are liking troll? Also, possibly any videos on shadow priest pvp match ups versus different classes? :)
People either love or hate trolls. I love them, and their over-the-top animations. Kamehameha!
So Kala, have you made your choice ? Sticking with UD or switching to trolls ?
Can you do a more detailed version of the troll build you have. Abilities, skill tree and such
Hey Kala, I hope you can help me with this. I am struggling with the Spammable Wand Macros, I've tried few of them, they are working fine, but sometimes they get bugged/non clickable. Do you have one 100% working fine ?
Nice video. Wondered what professions u recommend for pvp? I know engineering is king but what else with it? Being first toon on classic would have to be mining wouldnt it? Otherwise how can we fund buying the resources necessary to lvl engineering without it. Thanks man.
hey master kala! for my prof as troll shadow priest i was thinking maxing tailor for truefaith, then droping it for engineering, im just wondering what other prof would be gogly combo. I was thinking maybe herb ? to farm for herb in the open world pvp, what do you think ? or do herb while leveling then drop it for alchemy, idk.
So... you mentioned several times about the difference vs uncoordinated (world pvp) vs coordinated.
You also mentioned that as people's knowledge grows, the power of devouring plague get's worse.
Do you think Undead still eek out ahead in uncoordinated PvP with that taken into account?
Trying to decide between the two - will mostly be pveing and world-pvping over nodes.
Does anyone know what addon he was using that tracks debuffs and buffs?
NOTE: Pre-bis isn't 100% accurate in this video, and I will be releasing exactly what I'll be looking for in phase 1 in the near future
Any updates on this content on classic live?
Berserking is pretty great for wanding too. Get to about half health, pull, dot and zerk -> wand.
Damn it! I didn't know that Trolls had that many pros... It kinda makes me wonder if maybe i should roll one :P
Good video man, all the info was there. I still think Troll is better tho ;)
omg i kinda wna switch to troll now... omg its so hard to decide between...
what is the name of the add-on for showing the debuffs on the enemy as bars?
addons for this: Weakaura, Raven, Cronometer, Nug Running
To me not being able to will out of magic dust (you will be the target because you can dispel other targets) is a huge weakness of troll in coordinated PvP, and especially relevant if you're healing.
Undead starts with neutral reputations, I know it's not relevant but for me is another cons
Hex of Weakness is so underrated as well. I've noticed most people don't even know it exists or what it does and healing classes are destraught by it. Even Druids who could dispell it but just don't because they're uninformed.
I watched this. It was awesome. I'm still not sure what to do. Haha. Will UD looks and animations win? AAGAHGRGH
Is it possible dat succub charm can proc stun from shadowguard?
I do believe touch of weakness also procs off any physical damage such as bows or guns? I'm not 100% sure but I thought it did
Hi Kala, i really like your videos. I have a question for you cuz i am having a really hard time deciding. What race it's best for holy priest (pvp and pve). From a healing point of view i believe the choice it's between Will of the forsaken and Berserking and maybe hex of weekness.
Hey Kala, will you do a chat with ooze priest? Interested in hear both of your opinions on endgame priest
Sure thing, just get him to send me an invite!
What to do when you hit 60? Ditch shadow for holy? Finding groups as shadow for dungeons/raids seems really hard and even the tiergear sucks for shadow. And no pvp gear available until phase 2, so what to do? Heal and wait?
A sin spec maybe?
10 dsic 10 holy 31 shadow. You still have the faster cast time, imp renew imp fortitude.
Basically you have a 2nd set of gear and simply lie to everyone :)
u can easily find a dungeon group as shadow if u group up with a resto druid, for raids its pretty hard if u dont want a casual group bcs 1spot is max for most people and some also rather have a holy priest specc into SW
My man Kala speaking the TRUTH
I guess good thing im in absolute love of male troll look/animation/lore/emote
Troll hunter, mage,warrior and now priest 💪
Chugga chugga, chugga chugga, chugga chugga, CHOO CHOO!
Kamehameha / Hadouken animations ftw!
Good job, this is my biggest internal debate. My brain says choose undead yet my heart says troll
undead looks like shit tohugh.
@@kerenton5897 like your mom
For everyone complaining about the Trolls look; have you forgotten Noggenfogger Elixirs? Shadowform Skeleton > Shadowform Undead
cant mount big suck
As I'm mostly gonna heal on my priest, both in PvE and PvP, troll is the obvious choice for me.
5 points in Blackout is no biggie to drop for serious PvP as a healing priest.
Oh, and I'm rolling male ofcourse.
Troll isn’t worth it at all if you arnt deep shadow
Guys i have a question. I tested SP on a vanilla private server and i had huge mana problems. I was basically oom aftrer every little fight in bgs and that is with BiS gear at around 7k mana. I dont even want to know how it is with normal gear. Will it be like that when classic goes live?
Yes it will, that's why Shadow is basically a duel spec.
It should be noted that the spell coefficients for touch of weakness and shadowguard are likely wrong. They should both be much lower. That can be inferred from some old pvp videos from 2006. We will know for sure once classic launches.
Exact values are wrong, but only by 5-6% percentage points iirc
@@Closecall30 Well that would be acceptable, but may I ask where is your source for that 5~6%?
ToW only scales 10% in bliz servers. In pservers its bugged. Shadowguard scales at ~33% per orb so it will hit like it does on pservers in classic. But people always forget that trolls can Zerk + Heal or Manaburn for offensive power vs casters and healers. It makes troll Spriest much more dangerous against healers in general.
Yeah, well did you test the 33% Shadowguard coefficiency yourself on beta servers? I know it's 33% on Pservers, but I could not find a reliable source or anyone who can prove it is also true on the Blizz servers.
@@konnektlive replying late but based on what wowhead says,
ToW is 10.71% -> 25%*(1.5/3.5)
Shadowguard is 26.67% -> 80%/3 (same as lightning shield)
any confirmations ?
Thanks for the nice video and the informations.
I'll play undead 100%, because i love the look and the movement etc...it's so damn cool!
Same here, as disc/holy. Undeads are the stronger model for me too, and i'm nowhere near good enough to play at a level where racials can determine outcomes :)
If anything, the wotf racial will give me more of an advantage as a noob because of it's simplicity.
@@sparkoceanic every spriest video from vanilla rank 14 is an undead. I don't think I've ever seen a troll.
I feel a big con for troll priest is how hunter and warlock pets eat up charges 😢 Thoughts?
For whatever reason this choice has been stressing me out, because I too am not much into troll. Like you said, sounds like the differences aren't too bad in unorganized pvp, and I think that's where I'll mostly encounter it. So I'm definitely more likely to play Undead now. Definitely wouldn't want to ruin my experience playing with animations I don't like.
I'm also reminded of how much I hate the raptor mount, and how much it bounces annoyingly fast. I know I can get other mounts too, but a lot of time will be spent on a raptor as a troll.
Please make a video with BiS gear and rotation for starshards. I hear the problem with shadowpriest in end game pve is mana, and I hear an "arcane" sort of build deals similar damage to shadow but it would be way more mana efficient, but I don't think anyone cares enough to waste time and min max starshards, so if you could try that even for fun would be interesting to see.
Might be able to, likely not though. I also don't think that the mana issue is as big of an issue as everyone says it is
Sorry because my english is not ok ,so can you tell witch better for pvp tyy ❤
holy shit tysm i really wanted to justify making troll priest over undead but this video helped me realize its even better
Nice sponsors bro
Around 13:24 you say that you can use will of the forsaken to be immune to an incoming cc. Would that prevent that cast of the cc from suffering diminishing returns? It may be better to just eat the spell and instantly WotF
Potentially, but preemptively activating it also lets you continue to Mindflay or Mindblast through the cc
Depends on where your global is at. Also a fight will end before DR on fear ever really becomes relevant
hi bro
do you have discord server for wow?
do you play wow now?
2 trinkets will always be better than one, especially with the way CC works in Classic.
what server you rolling on?
Faerlina
Feel exactly how you feel towards undead, always have really -unfortunately i can't help but still play undead 100%
What rank mind flay
You forgot to mention that berzerking also affects ur wand speed which is huge for lvling and good in some situations later on
Lil Anxious it does, but your want can never get faster than 1.5 seconds
@@Kalattv Sure? When I tried it I got my lesser magic wand down to 1.33, at least for the tooltip. Seemed like it was shooting faster as well.
@@PelFox Sorry, should have specified. Your wand can be 1.1 second cast time, but it triggers GCD and can't cast more than once per 1.5 seconds unless I'm boosted?
Kala pretty sure the cooldown it triggers is based on your wand speed
What about the 2 extra int and 4 extra spirit that undead have?
like 30 mana, 4 spirit and 1+ healing
I wanna play troll so bad cause of shadow guard but the no shoes really kills it.
@@0mnicideEnded up running with a Female troll lol.
Ran to Deathknell to get the undead vibe and work up for an undead mount
Apotheosis Females trolls look better than the males lol
@@0mnicide animations are a big plus for trolls what do you mean lmao
Shadowguard sounds pretty op for leveling, but wouldn't it break the 5 second rule? Like.. 3 charges are up and you are wanding, do you just not cast shadowguard again or do you break the 5 second mana regen rule?
Good point. Does anybody know?
That is a very good question! Anyone?
that's it i will play a troll !
Pretty good video. I agree with your analysis for the most part. Just a couple things I do want to point out:
1. While it's true that devouring plague is basically useless in coordinated pvp, the vast majority of pvp in classic is uncoordinated so you'll still get pretty good usage from it. There are no arenas or RBGs so BGs will be pugs most of the time. It's also pretty rare to run into coordinated groups in wpvp but it is possible.
2. I think your fear about every player having jungle remedy is just paranoia lol. Pservers and beta were full of knowledgeable people and even then most weren't carrying jungle remedies all the time. There will be a lot of casuals and new players when classic actually does release. Most people won't be carrying them.
Denkart fair point about Jungle Remedy. Thanks for watching!
A lot of the classic playerbase are veterans. They know about min maxing and especially about pvp advantages from simple to farm items. As for fights against bad players, you will win even as a Night Elf priest with crap abilities, as shadowpriest is so strong in general. It only matters against good players and they know how to negate DP and make you waste 980 mana.
+1 if you think most people are going to be bad you can just play/do whatever u want if youre good and it wont matter at all
Anyone else think the audio is extremely low?
thank god for tmorph :>
For da voodoo!
How is the skill ceiling with a spriest? Also how viable are they in pre-bis? In pve and pvp.
DP costs alot of mana indeed. No doubt about it.
But I feel noone talks about this:
Let's say you duel someone as a Troll Priest, you are probably going to use the Shadowguard spell ATLEAST 5 times in a duel. That's more than 1000 mana combined. Which is more than what DP costs.
Sure, you probably get more out of Shadowguard than DP. But it's worth noting in this discussion, when it comes to mana efficiency and mana cost.
What server is this? Would like to test some things as well
So are you keeping to undead? Or are you trolling?
What happened to the vids?
Probably not noteworthy but the fact that the Undead being able to hold their breath underwater comes in very handy. A buddy of mine who played UD priest told me a story of an alliance warrior who was more geared and higher level trying to gank him so my buddy dove deep into a lake where the warrior chased him. When the warrior realized he was running out of breath he turned around and headed for the surface. Thats when my buddy gave him the mind flay to slow him down and the warrior drowned.
Undead master race reporting in
Druids can't dispel diseases, only poisons and curses. Agree with all the rest ;)
Yes, I actually scrubbed through looking for this part because for some reason I thought I said it, but couldn't find it again. I'm insane. Druids CANNOT dispel disease lol.
Haha, it happens! Nice content, keep em coming!
Hey Kala,
Are you going to play shadow priest at endgame PvE?
Yep! I'll be the Shadow Priest for , you may have seen our guild name in the beta.
Thoughts on undead female???
People push alliance to play dwarf but on horde side they don’t see trolls are clearly 10 times better than undead
“But but I like how undead looks” so shut up about dwarf priests then
people push for Dwarf because a single skill called Fear ward nothing else . or if they pvp because stoneform is one of the best racials in game wich combined with ward make dorfs priest the best on alliance .
@@santiagopeligros4768 best priests, period imo!
Eujekas It’s becouse alliance struggles with things like onyxia fear since no tremor totem.
@@santiagopeligros4768 How can i enjoy being fuhrer ugly for the entire time of my classic experience ?????
What race would you pick for a Disc/Holy Priest?
Troll is superior for that as well. Berserking to heal faster. You could also go a hybrid spec with 5 points in Blackout to self-peel using Shadowguard.
Quality content
What about PvE? Which one you think is the best?
troll. Devouring is way too much mana and WOTF is useless. Berserking is best for PvE. EASILY.
Do you still have the same opinion for trolls for TBC given that all priests have fear ward. Are trolls even better in TBC?
You've talked a lot about PvP but you didn't really mention the pros and cons for PvE, Raids, Dungeons, etc.
Wish I could deal with the troll look. But UD is just too slick
Female is okay, has decent casting animations.
@@PelFox yeah, but they waddle like constipated penguins
@@abbrah Yea, Im sticking with Undead also, even if they are weaker on paper.
Did you consider the usage of wotf against engineering items that everyone should have like you said. Also I don´t think too many people will fill up their bags with remedies while lvling, where the fun world pvp is happening. I dont want to grind rank 14. I want alliance not getting to 60 easily :D
Troll time mon
I love your videos. Trolls ftw! Although undead aesthetics are legitimately awesome.
Kala how did your undead priest have both Gnomish and Goblin engineering? Did you learn one and then relearn engineering again from 0?
Yes!
Hey Kala do you still play?
Yeah I do, just haven't been streaming or making videos :(
Troll all the way no doubt about that.
but 3K healing from Devouring plague vs classes that can't dispel it. is huge. since your other option is drop out shadowform (lost 15% damage 15% reduction cost big mana to get back to).
Shadow guard is only good with really high spell dmg + blackout and it's dispelable, the fights that it does help you in DP is even better, DP double dips with Vampiric embrace for an absurd amount of healing. If you land a clean fear with VE +DP, you can just cannibalize or bandage and you're all the way back to full hp in a few seconds. Double DoT's on a target running away will always be better than one that requires people to hit you.
Most of these arguments in the vid are perfect world scenarios and as someone who has taken priest to Rank 14 (plus a druid to Rank 13 as an FC), I can assure you that's not how it plays out, especially against teams with non standard comps with extra warlocks. If you are following behind your Flag runner and your team gets fear bombed, if you already burned your insignia, then that is GG. WOTF alone is better than the entire troll priest toolkit, especially when on defense and trying to keep the FC alive.
the tldr is that in pvp undead racials are good in certain situations while trolls are good in almost all situations.
also the thing for people who dislike troll looks and feel, if your willing to spend a bit more coin you can look like a male undead or male human if you use noggenfoggers or savory deviates and they are great for pvp too for other reasons.
Sorry but that is clearly a biased tldr from you xD
kala pretty much summed it up well, there are some match ups where devo plague and wotf are not used but troll racials are always used
@user-gw5bm2xj7q What are u talkin about, hex is a 20% healing reduction. Clearly better than touch. Lesser potion heal, lesser bandage heal and less spell heal!
Damn, now I gotta switvh my created UD to Troll...Hope no one swipes my name lol. #notThex
Love the content! For me it will be undead 🤘
The other con is that Undead have slightly higher spirit and intellect baseline... STILL gonna roll a female Troll SPriest IDGAF
Also on the looks front, I actually like Female Troll looks, whereas Undead has a big thing I don't like about Male Trolls which is their Hunchback-ness
Undead for OG spriest look, Troll if you are an actual gamer. Also Shadowguard looks cool asf.
Undead ftw
i wanna roll shadow priest but im kinda scared i dont get an raidspot :(
Definitely not in phase one, unless they dont have 14 debuff slots already.
@@tiggerknowsbest6817 I went holy disc to get my raid spot, got benediction, and then farmed shadow pre-bis. Just ask efficient. No guild is looking for a spriest rn.
did he end up going undead?
If looks really ruin it for you guys that much you can always just get pirate costume or Noggenfogger lol. Shadowguard and Berzerking are too good to give up, especially since all priests get fear ward in TBC.
Play w/e you like imo UD looks better
7:56 I wonder if you could make a macro to take off all +stamina gear and take it back on (which will lower your health%), and then use the berserking?
9:00 kind of missleading to use beasts to test damage from your passive damage skills since trolls do 5% more dmg to beasts
do you think this is accurate since you did not test this on a live server?
Only that that would potentially change is the spell damage coefficient on shadow guard, everything else should be spot on.
Fliptality everything I discussed was actually tested on beta! The only thing was Shadowguard coefficient as I mention, but I’m 99% sure that’s not changing
@@Kalattv It is, but not much. Coefficient in classic is actually 26%, still really good. Whereas coefficient for touch of weakness is overtuned on private servers and is only 10% in Classic. Huge difference.
Kala cheers
@@CAiNiAC Well, where is the source for the 26%? any link? Also between 33% and 26% there is a 7% difference! That is not insignificant at all. I mean if it's only 26% then Undead's DP would get more weight in comparison ^^