Do You Really Need A Tuner For A Harley Davidson | Air Cleaner & Exhaust Install
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2022
- Here I discuss and test whether you really need to have a tuner on your Harley-Davidson with an M8 engine when you have either a slip on exhaust muffler or a new air filter air cleaner separately or even together. When is the tuner really needed and what would be the best practice depending on what equipment you have own the bike and what kind of riding you would wish to do.
#RevelatorAlf #HarleyTuners #AirCleaner&Exhaust
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I installed Screaming Eagle High Flow Air Kit and Rinehart 4.5 inch slip ons on my 2018 Ultra Limited and no issues, no loss of power no back pop! No engine lights.
Have a twin cam 88 on a 05 Electra glide. Put on SE slip ons and K&N air filter which resembles the stock filter. Debated getting a tune for a couple of months. Had a lot of decel pop and some throttle lag. Just bought a Power commander 6 and installed it. Made a huge difference. Pulls really strong while passing on the freeway now. Very minimal decel pop now but I don’t mind it. Gives the bike character. Quite honestly it runs much better. Local tuner wanted $800. The power commander from Fuelmoto was $400. Money well spent.
Thanks for sharing your opinions. I was thinking whether or not to get a V&H FP4 for my Sportster 883 until I saw your video.
I put K.N filter and added an other hole in my stock filter cover added SE street cannons and bike is fine done 200 + ks so far goes a lot butter..i will get a tuner when i get a Cam. ....2021 Ultra Limited..... 114...
On my previous bike , 2012 Road Glide, I put on a Cobra power flo air filter and Cobra duels exhaust, no tuner and the bike ran like a champ.m
You don,t have to do anything after exhaust filter fitment but new mapping (not new bcu ) does really help yesterday on me PA nice smooth curve no gltches cooler running engine.
Yep 👍
I have a 2020 low rider from new with V&H eliminator slip ons and a screaming eagle high flow filter. I had an Fp3 fitted with a base map at the dealers with the warranty retained. Up until this year most insurance accepted this with no issues now on renewal I am finding more and more want big uplifts for anything considered not a factory fit item and want to consider any tuner a stage one. If I didn’t have any other mods I would take the map off to save the extra insurance cost as in truth it does very little other than stop a bit of popping and banging.
I changed the exhaust to a set of short shots on my 2010 Iron, stock air box, and the bike began to run extremely lean. Idle was boggy and extremely rough. Had to get it tuned properly, and all was well afterwards. Have the video to show it, too.
DK did a couple videos with tests. The answer was you didn’t need a tune. With both slip on and filter together. Watch it and make the decision for yourself. I have neighbor haters on now and a air cleaner on the way.
How has that been in regards to this video? Works without tuner?
Hello there
Would you recommend a black short pipes exhaust for my softail standard 2022 , that can be installed without the need of tuning the bike ?
Thank you in advance 👍
I have a 2011 road king classic. I added a cobra hi-flow air cleaner and cobra 909 slip on mufflers. I rode the bike and it felt ok. I then used a V&H tuner and...what a difference!! Much more low end and mid-range increase in acceleration! The ECM's o n the 2011 Harley's do not have the O2 sensing range ( due to the narrow band O2 Sensors).
I've put on some S&S slash cuts on my 2022 Heritage with no tuner. The pipes have a removable DB canister so I removed them. The pipes are much louder but still no CE light. I road on trip of about 1700 miles without the DB killers. The bike was very comfortable but he sound took a little out of me. I reinstalled the DB killers and rather enjoyed not having the loud sound. I'm thinking of reinstalling the stock pipes because I think the bike looks better with them on and it is just as loud as the S&S pipes with the DB's installed. I might have put some pipes on sale.
I have a Rinehart exhaust on my RG 2022 no tuning, but the management light is on all the time.
From what I understand any changes you make to increase air flow to your motor witch is what you are doing by changing air cleaner or exhaust it leans out your fuel to air mixture, From what I understand this creates much more heat in the combustion chamber and running a motor too lean could cause loads of problems down the road. And Knowing our great EPA I know that the requirements push the boundaries about as close as they can with stock air cleaner and exhaust, I wouldn't trust it for very long without getting a tune on it.
I originally fitted a rinehart slip on to my Sports Glide (great note) and I wish I’d stopped there. I’m now on a stage II tune with a torque cam and it has become less and less like a Harley. So just change the exhaust you don’t need to do anything else.
ah that's interesting, cheers
Got a 2019 Sport Glide and changed to Rinehart slip on. After 100 miles , check engine light appeared. HD said it was an air leak in intake manifold and also wouldn't hurt with a tune. Got new manifold under warranty and did a tune and no issues after 500 miles. Could see how new slip on could cause this as stock muffler very restrictive.
Interesting as Rinehart state you don’t need a tuner.
2021 onward you definitely do. O2 sensors in muffler need removing.
Yep
Before I got a Heritage Softail I had an 07' Sportster 883 XLC installed a Cobra fi2000 tuner added to match the open Cobra slash drag pipe slip-ons ...NO performance but they looked good and was LOUD!the one where you plug and go...no mapping or computer set-up...PRICEY TO SAY THE LEAST... didnt notice any improvement for getting that ox-cart to go faster from a dead stop at a traffic light or any noticeable pick-up in acceleration whole cruzin down the road either...problem was I was dealing with 47 rear wheel adjusted HP stock...but I didnt get any pop or daceleration which is good but all that money for what? And the big question is...how do you consider these fuel tuners performance when before I did all that stuff with stock I got 45 MPG and post install with the stage 1 air filter and pipes and tuner I goto 39-40 MPG! Tell Revelator Alf thank-you for warning these newbies dont waste your money...save it for more important upgrades like hydraulic cam tensioners or better yet maybe some gear driven cams & high pressure oil pump for your Heritage Softail. Greetings & Salutations Goodnite!
Got a 114 Breakout 21 model ,it's got sensors in silencer's , going to put on v&h eliminator 300's on ,needs a fuel pack on ,Harley dealer going to put power commander on latest software for M8 engine ,FP 4 got problems ,harley dealer doing all work £1200
I'm more concerned on the 22 street bob 114 I want a vance and hines radial system keeping the current filter as it's stage 1 applicable, so I was looking at the fp4 but its the o2 sensors i have four on my OEM exhaust 2 on front and 2 on the back and not sure how to sort those out, as the check light will come on if I swap out no UK vids on swapping out on these systems yanks don't have the rear o2 sensors
Is it bad to have aftermarket pipes and no air change and a tuner
Nice rumble .
The M8 engines have a much better air/fuel ratio than the twin cams. You can run a high flow filter or high flow slip on without a tune. A tune will definitely improve the performance. But it is not necessary.
Yes indeed
The one question I never see answered anywhere is whether or not this holds true for a bike that comes stock with a high flow intake, like the Breakout... will adding slip ons then require a tune since there's already a high flow intake in place, even though it's "stock"? Thanks.
@@notonyourlife7939 you can get away with one or the other without a tune... not both. with that said, an aftermarket tune will make the engine happier by running cooler and more efficient. the EPA is cracking down on retailers who sell aftermarket tuners here in the US. some small businesses have been fined extremely to the point they can no longer stay in business. I am on my 3rd HD with the M8. my plan on all 3 has been to run them stock and get rid of them within 5 years with no more than 20-30,000 miles. my second M8-114 sumped and exploded at 8500 miles. unfortunately, I do not trust these engines. I never had that concern with my previous Japanese cruisers. my current 107 is doing okay after 1800 miles. time will tell.
If I swap my exhaust and air filter at home, would I still be able to drive to the nearest tuner without damaging my bike? It's a 15/20 min drive.
I have a 2021 Softail Standard (107). If I install a full exhaust and leave the stock round air filter, do i need to tune right away? Or will it cause damage? Its the V&H 2 into 2 Big Radius Exhaust.
You don’t need a tune with just slipons
Ok, So ya started it up in the driveway and ran it 20 seconds, And no Check Eng. light.. So what about riding in it? Then how many months of riding it like that.. Did the light ever come on yet??
how much difference did your fp3 make after autotune had finished Alf?
I had to run it a few times and may do it again but it runs really nice now. Not noticeably more performing but just smother in the RPM range I'd say
@@RevelatorAlf did you notice any drop in mpg?
No you do not need to get a tuner that will cause you to lose your warranty anyway, unless it's a SE. On a twin cam or sporster you do however. The M8 has the ability to keep the air fuel ratio in the proper range. It will run fine without changing the tune. Now if you go any further, higher lift cams, bigger pistons, change displacement you will need to tune, on a dyno to max the effect, hp/torque capability from those mods. That said, if you only change pipes and intake and don't tune you will get a very minimal, if any effect from the modification. But if it's the sound you want, on M8, it is not necessary to tune, the AFR will stay in range and not damage the engine. I have done this myself, even a whole exhaust system and intake. Never a issue, and I have had several M8s. Those of you that say it will run too lean, you need to do your research. There are lots of videos you can watch and see to prove it gets the correct mixture. The truth is, shops make a killing on simple low hanging fruit mods, "stage 1" normally 1500 to 2500 dollars, for nothing more than a few bolt ons and pluging in a tuner. Save yourself the money, and your warranty, put it on yourself minus the tuner. And when you go out of warranty and want to change the cam, get a tuner your mechanic recommends, one that he can change, like a Powervision.
Thanks for saying this I been holding on to a v&h hi flow for 2 years not wanting to pay the 1500 for a stage 1 I kicking myself for believing dealer now
@@rugersauer5424 is your bike a M8? And have you changed out your exhaust?
These newer Harleys run way to lean to begin with, thats why they run so damn hot. You need a tune to get more fuel to help cool the engine
well said! i agree 100% so will my mechanic at his own shop
I did the aircleaner and exhaust on my streetglide. Bought a Vance and Hines FP3 Went through the mapping and saw no change. And never got a check engine light before or after. Money wasted.
The ecm supposedly can manage + - 10% afr change.
Without increasing air flow into the aircleaner your not getting much of an improvement over stock. Something K&N doesn't mention.
Bruh....
Got the lowriderS, 2020....
It's got short shots..
And a k&n too....
Wasn't even gonna bother you, until you said k&n...
So my question is this..
I've been putting new pipes on my bagger....
It's a 103 twin cam, and all four Harleys, have been getting k&n, oil, and air...
Filters...
But only my fxlrs, got the Harley tuner.....
Ok, maybe this is the real question...
Do you think, I'm messing my bagger up..
Im ask this to you...
Because I, honestly feel, like you're, the most honest...
CZcamsr, that I'm subscribed too...
So far.........
.............\o/..........
Just because your sportglide,
Was the next best thing to the lowriderS...
But you did get them sexyass rims...
Oh, and them bags...
Please, believe me, when I say...
I know what the moco, is putting out...
That's the reason for the, new lowrider with the bags....
And the fxr is to blame, fer that ugly faring...
Punctuation is hard, but I know it's important.....
Just hit play again@ minute forty five...
Just wanna say that the curve of the sport glides exhaust....
The way it sweeps forward like that.....
That's, what I like.....
You got the hand guards, already...
But I, think you'd really like the road warrior fairing...
Nah! Depends on that K&N air cleaner. If it's close to stock, then 'no'. But if its truly similar to SE air cleaner then 'yes'.
Check engine light not necessarily relevant, Yr running too lean. Note that more recent M8 come with a high flow air cleaner so. If you are swapping out that just for a different look, and you put a high flow exhaust,. Then not necessary as ECU can already manage it. But your bike did not come stock with a high. Flow Air cleaner.
Yep agreed
Modern motorcycle engines are so tuned so lean for emissions you're really playing with fire doing things to increase air flow without "tuning". Adding a high-flow air filter is a waste of money without tuning. Changing mufflers will at least improve sound, but without a tune will probably lower performance a bit. EFI tuning is the heart, the most essential part, of any engine performance upgrade.
Only on sportsters and twin cams. The M8 will compensate to keep the AFR correct to prevent engine damage.
So its ok for a sportster not to install the fp4 after chaging the exhaust?
@@Fortis_Reptiles no, it will run like crap, unless it's a slip on with baffles. But if you do air box, headed pipes and mufflers, you will need a tuner.
Only on a M8 can you get away with no tuner.
@@Fortis_Reptiles ... Most V-Twins will be okay with only replacing the mufflers.
With a slip on, no. With full exhaust, yes. It's not so much about the check engine light but more about proper air/fuel ratio. The manufacturers setup most bikes to run fairly lean from the factory to meet emissions and fuel standards. Any deviation from that is going to require a tuner or ECU flash to compensate for it as it is going to suffer from fuel starvation and get some nasty popping on deceleration.
I have replaced the air filter with a K&N, also slip ons without baffles. Just put 200 miles on it the first day of the change, ZERO issues.
Run it m8 and then read your plugs. but you should be fine.
If ya got the "bible" there will be a section on how to read the plugs in the tune up maintenance section
Ha ha yep
Muffler change only tuner not really required , full exhaust system and hi Flo air cleaner yes you will...once you alter fuel/ air you need a tuner... otherwise your bike will run lean/rich ...and the Vance and Hines fp3/fp4 tuners are great and easy to use also the power vision by Dyno jet... definitely worth investing in..
Yep 👍
I replace the exhaust with a shortshots do i need a tuner?
Yes If you wannna it to destroy your bike in a long term