Harley Can't Void Your Warranty Anymore For This! EFI Tuners? Lawsuits?
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- čas přidán 17. 10. 2023
- Recently, there have been many lawsuits between customers, the EPA, Harley-Davidson, and aftermarket exhaust and EFI tuner companies such as Vance & Hines. It all stems from the EPA cracking down hard on these companies. The EPA claimed these companies were not in EPA compliance in regards to their exhaust systems and EFI tuners. That's all changed now and I'm here to tell you about it.
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HD makes a fortune off of these upgrades and then voids their over-priced warrantees. HD is a disgrace.
own a 2020 CVO Limited, called Vance and Hines they recommend the FP3 due to it having more options! or they just wanted to clear their Warehouse? either way installed and the process was not plug and play! had many issues! biggest was the bike would not start after installing! lets just say the swear jar was filled! Good new finally got V&H tech on the line and he was able to re-flash the bike install the tune and the bike is running well! Thanks Vance and Hines that was really A+ customer support.
Great Information! Thanks for another great video.
I used the SE tuner like the one in the video on my 2022 street glide st and so far no issues. I used this tuner to keep my warranty but good to know that there is more options now, thanks for the great info, ride safe✌️
Thanks for sharing
If you are using the “EPA” compliant tuner, I doubt it’s any different than the screaming eagle tuner
Accept our experience is that the FP4 is not so glitchy and frustrating as the SE tuner. Good luck to those that choose that tuner.. And like I say in the video, you are stuck in the Harley ecosystem only with the SE tuner. FP4 gives you other aftermarket options.
@RyanUrlacher I had the FP3, it was awsome. I'll probably give the 4 a shot. Thanks for posting.
FP4 according to website is EPA compliant in 49 states. CA is the outlier, ironic as Vance & Hines is headquartered in Santa Fe Springs CA. Thanks CARB……
Great vid Ryan. I have to add a scientifically accurate comment. I would wish that the EPA would stay away from the aftermarket. If they must they should only require the manufacturer to comply to “their standards”. When a customer chooses to change their bikes exhaust, cams and other customizable accessories they should tune their bikes for the best running engine they can. This is because a well tuned internal combustion engine not only runs cooler and lasts longer, they are more efficient. The engine will use less fuel if it is tuned properly which is a positive goal for both the bike owner and the EPA. I get the whole idea of how a abnormaly hot running engine may burn off more unburned fuel and or hydrocarbons but in reality the properly tuned engine will use less fuel and run cooler. Excessive heat in an engine will cause cylinders to warp and excessive blow by will result burning more oil and become less efficient leading to a failed engine which leads to an engine dumping more crap into the atmosphere. So, EPA, please leave our bikes alone since they are not the majority of gasoline burning machines out on the roads. And please don’t forget that America is probably one of the cleanest countries in the world and that China is probably one of the dirtiest ones which we sadly do way too much business with.
Well said!
I just got mine for a 2007 Sportster 883 and it work very well
Because I bought the Screaming Eagle tuner trying to save my warranty because every dealership that I have called including Harley Davidson corporate, they all say they can avoid our warranty if we go with any other tuner
Great info man. Thanks for sharing.
You bet
I dont know. If you read 5) just above the ine you highlighted it says damage caused by non HD components. This still gives HD an out if they can prove the non HD component caused the malfunction.
Interesting. In Canada we don’t have the EPA. I need to find the warranty fine print. Nice work Vance and Hines. Smart fellers right there.
Good to know stuff.
Bought my '20 Road Glide Special that already had a stage 2 performance kit installed with a 447 torque cam but it already has a SE tuner in it.
I don't think there's anything I can manipulate on it myself.
Yes, if someone is comfortable you can definitely manually change things in the SE tuner. Same with the FP4.
Appreciate the time and research you put into these videos, but you left a much better option out. Why didn't you cover TTS Mastertune or power vision? They both blow screaming eagle and fuel pak out of the water. As far as warranty goes the Harley one is garbage. You'd be much better off getting a DESP warranty which covers all after market mods and upgrades.
I would highly recommend the TTS Mastertune as it offers a ton more tuning variables to really dial it in.
Forget to warranty just go with power vision and be done
I don't get an extended warranty, personally. But many do, so I wanted to share the information. And for those under manufacturers warranty. We've installed and tuned Harleys using both the Power Vision and Fuelpak 4.
In your opinion does the Power Vision have advantages if the bike is out of warranty ?@@RyanUrlacher
Is this now for a fact not going to void the HD warranty? Thanks for your great video
I've looked at the terms of the HD warranty and I couldn't find anything that mentions that they will VOID the warranty for using a non-EPA tuner. I did see that they can deny a claim. VOIDING a warranty and denying a claim are two completely different things.
I can’t resist. Great video. Always good stuff from you.
I bought the new tuner from Harley… what can I say? Once you get past the firmware update, the constant drop in connection, the multiple pairing attempts, and the very basic interface, what’s not to like? It lets me reset my HD O2 sensor CEL every once in a while from my phone. So that’s a good $500 well spent. No need to hold my selector switch and do it the old fashioned way.
FP4 may be the way to go. Do you know if it’s working with the Harley wideband sensors?
Can you use a denial can- smart with tuner ? I believe they use the same plug ? I love my lights. And control of lights with stock switches
Thank you Ryan
U betcha!!
Grat to hear that an EPA tuner will not void the warranty.
With the price these bikes cost they should already come with wide band O2 sensors and an ECU that can Auto-Tune.
A V&H Rep once told me that the FP3 tuner could be removed once the bike is tuned with it. In fact, in AZ where it gets really hot during the summer, he stated it could be a good ideal to remove it once the map is set to ensure the heat wouldn't eventually cause it to fail. True? Would this be true with the FP4 as well?
Is the new store open yet?
@RyanUrlacher - 2021 Road Glide Limited - getting my VH Eliminator 400s today (thanks LAB Store!). Will order the FP4 from LAB as soon as I decide on the intake - VH Naked or HD Ventilator. When you did the SE Stage 1 on the PD bikes, did you have to take off the fuel tank as stated in the installation instructions for the HD Ventilator? Also, is that rain sock an issue for the guys (always on, leave it off, LOSE IT lol?).
Hey Ryan, does the FP-4 tuner support the 55mm aluminum intake manifold from Harley-Davidson so if I decide to replace the plastic one, I’m good to go? Thank you in advance!!
I have currently done a stage 1 kit on my 22 Road Glide Special. I just bought the Stage2 torque Cam kit. The problem I'm running into it that is was able to get a dynojet power vision tuner from a company that was able to send it to California.
Now that I need a custom tune from dynojet they can help me.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Hi, please help me choose the best tuner. I have a 2017 114” M8 FLHTKSE. The only things I’ve done so far is decated the head pipe, installed the SE 55mm intake, K&N filter, and slip on no name mufflers. I don’t plan on a cam anytime soon, but I think a tune wouldn’t hurt. What’s your opinion?
are things the same now as they were in 10/ 23 or has it become more restrictive with the EPA and how does removing cat converters play into all this?
I have a new 2023 Road Glide Limited. I live in Utah and purchased the bike here. After sale I was informed that it was a "California" bike and that a tuner could not be installed. They now tell me one is available. Is there really such thing as a "California Bike"? Am I able to choose the FP4 or locked into the Harley product?
This thing doesn't work for the new cvo road glide and street glide. I assume next year the new bikes will have the same problem. I called Vance and Hines and they indicated they are unable to unlock the ECM at this point on the new bikes.
Yah, CVO's with VVT. Soon they'll be able to. they always do.
If if EPA compliant , it still sucks. Haha
I have the FP3 for my 2022 XL883N, it works okay for now. On my next bike and the XL after I punch it out to 1200 will be dyno tuned at a shop. EPA and factory HD want you to run lean which is not good for the longevity of your engine. They run too hot from the factory because EPA. Where I live, motorcycles are smog exempt so V&H and others aren't doing me any favors in the area of getting the most out of my Harley in performance or longevity. When the FP4 came out, all the FP3's sold out. I say bide your time, figure out all you want to do with it. build it out, and dyno tune it at a pro speed shop once. It costs around $500 to do a real dyno tune and there is no better way to go because it is done directly with your bike, no two engines perform identically. Do it right and do it once. A canned tune is a one size fits all, a dyno tune is custom fit.
All true and that will certainly work for some and others it won't. Each rider has his/her own needs. Thanks for watching and commenting!!
Just because you install an aftermarket tuner, doesn't mean your entire bike warranty is voided. (This is from Harley) I have a Thundermax ECM on my 22RGS and had my GTS radio go out. Harley still replaced my radio because the tuner had nothing to do with the electronics failure.
Yah, that's correct. Engine is what we were dealing with in this video since we were talking about EFI tuners. Thanks for watching.
Rating on the iPhone app is only 1.7
FP4 only supports stage 1. Not practical. How is that better than HD tuner?
Great info. Do you know if the FP4 can disable the Speed limiter on 23 & 24 CVO & RG?
Would love to know that also nobody seems to want to answer
As of right now, no one has a tuner for the new 23s and 24s. H-D made it more difficult to access the ECM, and for good measure, they repinned the plug.
EPA compliant…. Will it tune an aftermarket header with no cat? I think I know the answer since it’s not compliant
You didn't address non cat headers. Will it tune that set up and will that set up kill your factory warranty?
My personal experience is that non cat headers does not affect the warranty. Unless you get a weird dealership that tries. I see nothing in the literature.
My local dealership has refused to work on my bike because I have some custom work I did myself and there new policy is they do not work on custom bikes..
So will all the tunes that have been available for FP3’s remain available or will they all also all be EPA compliant? What about the powervision 4?
I talk about that in the video. Backwards compliant. Tunes for older pipes etc are still in the FP4. Just can't purchase those older model pipes etc.
So when does the non EPA compliance ban start? Everything that’s always been available is still available today. Also, isn’t it true that Vance&Hines was at least one of the people pushing for this change? I won’t support a company who’s responsible for changes I didn’t want and hope others feel the same way I do.
How about the TTS Mastertune?
So is the FP4 suck now ?
And all limited in what it can do ?
ALL TUNERS are ending up that way, unfortunately. EPA is cracking down on ALL companies over time. I give a detailed explanation of changes and capabilities in this video.
That is one major problem living in California No tuner’s allowed nor cams, exhaust pipes, Hahaha nothing to do but just smile!!
So they have 1 that is only sold for racing. If we use that 1 here, could it void the warranty ? I'm thinking if just having it shipped to another state.
Isn’t there more than one Harley tuner? And if so what’s the difference? I have seen the one u showed and also one Harley tuner that is a larger one.... what’s the difference?
The other bigger tuner from HD is for is you are converting to wide-band O2 sensors. If your not then this SE unit is fine.
If I was to get this shipped to CA and used it, could that void my warranty here ?
It likely would not even work bike once it sees a California VIN
You said it that should not void your warranty. but it not guaranteed.
Like I said, you'll have to talk to your dealership and properly educate them. Some of the better dealerships will already know the FP4 is approved.
Thank for replying, there are some you tuber out their that don't even reply, the only thing they want is to subscribe and give them thumps ups. @@RyanUrlacher
My local dealer gives a life time warranty. Granted you have to take it to them for everything $$$. No thanks I do the work myself. Not worried about warranty 😮
Me neither. Do all our own work.
Is power vision EPA compliant.
Not to our knowledge. From their website "Our power vision tuner is made to optimize your power for more speed on the racetrack". Racetrack use means its not. **We can't find another EPA compliant EFI tuner at this time. Only the FP4 & SE.
so this is just a FP4 commercial.
@@RyanUrlacher
My question is the the pv4 by dynojet says it’s epa compliant yet also says you can use to completely tune the bike. How is it possible they were able to get it compliant?
2022 Ultra limited. Bought Harley tuner for stage 1, what a wimpy EPA POS tune. My old 103 stage one probably faster to be honest.
So what about if you’re not running a cat anymore?
Tune it with the FP4. Good to go.
Removing the cat was one of the best thing I’ve done for rider comfort. A good tune and almost no heat felt. Went from the rear cylinder turning into an air pump at every stop, to a smooth cooler running/riding bike.
So what about us California people that need this will their be an special part number for us or are we shit out of luck as usual????
Unfortunately, as you'r likely aware, California has become its own nation so to speak~~ LOL. There are no EFI tuners allowed or compliant in California (CARB), not even the new Fuelpak 4. 49 State compliant only......I'm sorry. Under current California laws, no tuners will be allowed or sold to residents. Sad.......
I think being EPA approved doesn't necessarily make it Harley-Davidson approved.
Its written in their own warranty terms. Thanks for watching.
No tuners replace a proper dyno tune
lol,most dyno tuners use power vision software
@hellonwheels1er823 smh, that's not what I mean, it's tuned with a dyno not an emailed tune
Yah, each rider to their own for sure. Some don't need or want a Dyno. Some do. Something for everyone.
hell with that warranty. Drop hell in it and crack the throttle. 😂
They never could right out the gate, that's a lie perpetuated by misinformed people. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act places the onus on the company, not the consumer, to prove that a given aftermarket modification caused premature failure, allowing the company to void the warranty.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is in place. That's correct. Unfortunately, customers end up spending lots of money on attorneys and lawsuits to pursue a civil suit against Harley if they choose to not cover a warranty. That's what has happened. Thanks for watching and commenting!!
Even if the act is covered you and you win the case but you’ll spend a lot of money on attorney fee’s is what you’re saying? Or you won’t win the civil suit and lose more money paying attorneys?
Either way, whether you win or not, it will take well over a year if you're lucky to even reach any settlement. Civil suits sometimes take many years to conclude. The consumer foots the Attorney bill in the meantime. If you do actually win, part of the settlement may or may not be Attorney's fees. It's a gamble you take.
This is a situation where a class action suit makes sense
Its not a question of the modification causing the failure, its a matter of EPA compliance and HD/EPA consent decree. Non compliant, no powertrain warranty is
in effect.
Looks like we in CA need to file a lawsuit and take this to the SCOTUS LOL
This is BS
2 months ago I did stage 2 with the Harley crap .. had a veryyy good tuner who worked it in the dyno for a while. So the bike runs beautifully and makes good numbers for a 107 with 447 cam
96/111tq
I’d have loved catless head pipes tho but the SEPST won’t do it and it’ll ride like shit ..2023 bikes won’t fly with that unless PV tune
We just tuned two 2023 Police Electras we put stage one kits on and they are running great!!
On my latest ride, I said to hell with the Warranty, EPA, and Harley and just had it dyno tuned to the max, voided my warranty for the motor (but not the rest of the bike components), and if the EPA wants to come after me, they better come with level IV plates. Government is out of control.
lame
Buy a indian motorcycle instead and hey u yube freedom of speach
You say Harley can’t void our warranty anymore they keep telling me they can so what do we do about this?