I live about 45 minutes from Fort William Henry and am actually a descendent of a man who was in Colonel Phineas Lyman's 1st Connecticut that was raised to help relieve the fort. Back in 1998-1999 I worked as a reenactor/tour guide at the museum, which is pretty much on the same spot as the original fort. One thing I can tell you is that living in the Adirondack Mountains, that the terrain is pretty rugged, and if you're lucky, you might get a shot where you can even see 100 yards between all the trees, the brush and the fact that nothing is very flat even in the mountains. It is very hilly, there are few spots where it is level from one area to another to where you can see. The longest shot I've ever made on a deer has been 65 yards or so, even our local gun range only goes to 125 yards because that's as far as they can go in between the trees and the brush from one area to another. In the film he was firing towards the woods end of the fort, away from the lake. I can tell you that the fort is also not as tall as they made it look. It's more or less the height of a two story house at best and it was built to the original plans. So given all the trees, even at best Hawkeye's shot would probably have been 100 to 125 yards at best with all the terrain. It's hard to judge the Village of Lake George where Fort William Henry is now because it's now a tourist town so there are few trees, but look at photos of nearby Prospect Mountain, only a couple miles away and you get a very good example of what the area looked like in the day.
Oh wow! I've always wanted to visit that part of the country. So much history there. As for the range problems, that is something that I've often read about but being from Kansas too many trees and mountains as to not allow for a long enough range was never really a problem out here lol But it does bring up an important point that I plan to bring up in the future when talking about smooth bore muskets versus rifles and why a smooth bore musket often gets a bad rap. But in all honesty, when you can't shoot out past 125 yards and I found the maximum effective range of a (musket to be around 150) It does make you think doesn't it. I did a little deer hunting last winter with my smoothbore Charlottesville on the medicine lodge River which is as close to the thick woods if back east that we can find out here and I found that it was just as easy to get a shot with a smooth bore musket as it was with a rifle. Do to the limit in the line of sight. PS. I heard a rumor that they actually brought up the mortars from fort Ticonderoga for that movie. Was wondering if there was any truth to this?
Buzzard, thanks for the "on the ground" perspective. Experiencing first hand as much as possible is the best way to understand history. Sometimes we have to experience it vicariously through someone else's first hand experience. That's why videos from channels such as yours and Ethan's are so very important to our community. Thanks for adding to the discussion. TC
I can easily recall the silk part in the movie. I didn't believe that was actually true because of my experiences shooting muzzleloader firearms. Your presentation was great and showed the truth of silk and don't believe all shown the movies. Kudos to you for this one. Keep it up!
The Rogers Rangers served here at the Fort and Fort Edward which was their base camp. The US Special Forces come directly from him and his troops. A lot of what he taught is still in the manual they use. This area is steeped in the French and Indian war and America Revolution History. I live just down the road from the American Revolution Saratoga battlefield where the Americans forced the surrender of a complete British army in he field. Thus got the French to come support us which was a crucial thing.
Not surprising that the silk is burning through. The powder charges for the big guns on battleships were bagged in silk because it would burn away completely and leave no burning embers to ignite the next powder load without having to sponge the bore like they did on the wooden ships. One of my grandfathers worked at the Army Ammunition plant in Charleston, IN where they bagged and canned the powder charges for them.
That was fun Ethan! Thanks for doing that. I've been shooting traditional muzzleloaders for 45 years, and I've never seen anyone try silk for patch material. As for the movie, there is actually a scene just pryor to that one (if my worn out old memory serves me correctly) where Nathaniel actually acquires the silk from Cora, so it all works to create a memorable part of the whole movie. As for being accurate muzzleloading practice, it's Hollywood; what do you expect??? Lolol.😂 Having said all that, I REALLY enjoyed the video! Leave it to 11 Bang Bang to keep it interesting and entertaining! TC
Yeah I kind of expected it wouldn't work too well anyhow. Still wanted to try it. I was hoping maybe I'd be pleasantly surprised like I was with the sharpe loading method but I think the difference is there that. Bernard Cornwall the guy who wrote the sharp series of books had actually found some references to spitting the ball down the barrel. As for using silk to patch with, I don't think that was in the books. However, I have read a book on last of the Mohicans as a child but it was heavily abridged. What I do remember and it was in the original book is the way Hawkeye tracked a cannonball that he had found on the ground... (that's right. He tracked a cannonball lol) back to fort William Henry As for James finimore Cooper well, let's just put it this way. If you want a good laugh, go read Mark Twain's thoughts on the accuracy of the processes used in James fenimore Cooper's books. It's pretty funny.
I think the excess fouling from using silk happened because the silk is too slippery and not providing enough resistance for a good powder burn. A patch grease that is too slick can also ruin accuracy and consistency. Silk, then, neither promotes accuracy nor improves effective range, logic dictates the exact opposite. The patch burning through and either blowing out ahead of the ball or the ball running through it would explain the wild misses because a bare ball in a rifled bore can get some really odd and high-speed spins imparted to it that will arc it off in odd directions like a bad golf slice.
Nice to see you shooting the Kibler Woodsrunner. I ordered a Woodsrunner in 45 cal and it has been shipped. It will be like Christmas day when it lands on my door.
I've noticed this in that movie. I always thought it odd. Wouldn't it, the silk be consumed? The big 14" & 16 ," guns in those turrets of WW2 battleships were loaded with 6each bags of powder weighing 110 pounds each. The bags themselves were made of silk so they would be completely consumed. So I've always wondered if a silk patch would be consumed
I'm going to go out on a limb say it was Michael Mann/Christopher crow I can't remember if using silk for patch was in the books but just a little FYI. If you want a good laugh on the ridiculousness of some of the processes used in James fennimore Cooper's books just look up what Mark Twain thought about. James fennimore Cooper's writing it's pretty funny
Great video, love the rifle, love the channel name. I was a 91B myself but spent all my time with 11 bang bang, 2/16, 1/41, 3/7…. It was an interesting movie, I love not far from where it took place (not where the movie was shot) and I knew they were going to Hollywood the entire thing when they started the movie with him running down a European Red Deer…in New York. Nope… Outstanding job proving them wrong
Very interesting. These types of demonstrations are very useful. I am sure most musket shooters don't consider the patching to factor in the performance of the ball. It''s an after thought at best. But as you have shown, there appears to be some relevance to the type of patching used. Well done my Friend.
Interesting experiment. A couple of comments from one who built his own flint rifle .50 about 40 years ago and a few since: Especially the last few shots, the lock time on that rifle is really slow. Most rifles, and muskets, are practically instant. Mine have no delay. Zero. I know that can be a whole topic by itself. The other is that powder is shooting very softly. At 90 grains that .50 should bark a whole lot more. That's the softest powder I've ever seen. I shoot Goex always and it performs way better. Probably not what you wanted to hear. I ran the muzzleloader activity at our range every weekend for about 6 years. I had a dozen shooters at least each session and we had over 30 active members shooting everything from .40 to .75, flints, caps and a few matchlocks. I've shot and watched a lot of black powder shooting. While a .50 ball can carry 300 yard, I seriously question an effective range of 300 yards. Effective range is more like half that at most. You might hit a man but it won't be a very effective terminally. I'd suggest you chronograph these loads and use the camera to check the lock times against other guns. I like what you're doing here and encourage you to continue! Thanks for listening. Pete
All through this video, I’m thinking of Hawkeye’s line in the movie “In case your aim is any better than your judgment.” I wonder who and how makes up these detailed myths for movies. “silk, for another 40 yards”.
It's my experience that Hollywood tells a few fibbs to make a great story. It's always nice if it works that is a bonus. But who knows they used everything available for patching. Leather, cotton,silk, Lenin, paper. As you guys know you need good conscienced powder and tight patch ball combo great job fellows keep burning powder
James Fenimore Cooper was not a frontiersman. He wrote The Last of the Mohicans (and, eventually, the Leatherstocking series - Leatherstocking being one of Hawkeye's other nicknames) because he and his wife would take turns reading aloud to each other in the evenings and, on one occasion, Cooper supposedly became disgusted with the quality of the book they were reading and said that he could write a better book than that. His wife asked then why didn't he, Cooper decided he would and The Last of the Mohicans was the result. At the time Cooper has apparently never even seen a Native American.
Cooper also never mentioned silk patches in The Last of the Mohicans book. In The Deerslayer he references using leather to patch bullets which Duelist1954 has tested on CZcams
I'm one of your Patriots and I believe in the American way and I have to shoot muzzleloading rifles because with my severe reading disorder that I have I had to go with muzzleloading guns because the ammunition is getting so high for cartridge guns and so many regulations on cartridge guns that I have to have someone fill out the paperwork or read the paperwork to me so I can write down what I need to write down on it easy just buying a muzzleloading rifle or a cap and ball pistol out of a catalog because it's like a a bottle of Tylenol on a counter shelf
Silk doesn't melt. Polyester, nylon, etc do. I tested a corner of a silk scarf, it burnt fast, but got it put out to save the scarf.I think mine burned even faster than yours. Be careful with silk around fire. Silk is also warm considering its weight. Nice to see the silk didn't completely disintegrate in the barrel. Maybe the multiple layers of patch is causing loss of accuracy?
He was wrong in the movie, the extra 40 yards achievement is actually unlocked by running through the woods shirtless with your flowing locks streaming behind you. 😁
No what he was saying was the tighter the weave of that patch that he was using is gives it a little bit more than another 50 yd in range tighter the patch and the weave in that cloth around the projectile makes it a little bit more tighter seal for it to hit down range with more about 50% more accuracy and gives it a little bit more range than normal patches I've noticed when each time that you used a pillow taking and everything that pillow taking is the same type but it's not as dense and it's not as smooth and shiny as silk where it goes down the barrel faster and it and it gives it a little bit more open to that musket ball so it gives it a little bit more power because I also use silk in my rifle for shooting round balls and it's a very potent combination if you're using a Kentucky long rifle and out of about 50 caliber Hawken rifle it's a pretty devastating projectile with that type of round and you're shooting a heavy duty round ball like 175 grain round ball and it does a lot of damage with that silk and it's faster to load without using a quick load without using a bullet starter is what he's saying and it also it does amendous knockdown power
Well done Ethan! I remember that from the film and wondered. Nice to see an expert test it. BTW, Have Caleb and Garret fix the base of the table; since you moved from the old range it developed the wobble.
That actually happened a couple of days ago. We had about 30 head of cattle on the pasture with the range on it and they wreaked havoc on the range over the past week including flipping the table over
@@Real11BangBang LOL been there, Cattle are SOOOO stupid... we had angus herford cross or "white faced angus" as they were called. good breed against pink-eye but DUMB. I got a permanent mark on my leg from a kick in the leg by a little bull once. Got even though; I CASTRATED him! Only one I ever felt good about :)
Oh, you were talking about patch material. When reading the title, I thought we were supposed to wear silk undies when shooting flintlocks. Never mind ......
I love the scene in "April Morning" when Robert Urich is teaching the kid to load under fire. I pretty sure the red coats were using paper cartridges, which would have been faster. He tells the kid just to dump what feels like the right amount of powder. Then he has the kid grab a handful of lead shot. He normally would use a certain number of round balls (he has a smoothbore). Then he asks if it feels right. He counts and he's close. Urich tells him to remember that feel when he loads. Makes sense. Hell, your probably gonna die soon anyhow...
Loved the BLK powder fun, broke up my day😂😂. Spit and elbow grease never looked so " revelutinary" . Thaught only cowboys used silk scarves,on their necks. When in doubt use Xmas wrapping paper, ( as a turkey hunter, surplus shooter and just plain curious)🧐🧐used Elmo once, still got a dirty look. January at Walmart, cheap big wht on back, don't let the misses see you packing it😂😂😂 just trust me. Save ammo and time, and possibly win the bet. Staple gun in hand.
Hello to all. Watching this a second time reminded me of a box of HORNADY .490 BALLS I purchased couple years ago. Couldnt group any shot, knowing I could make that happen of 1 inch at 100 yards. I then checked the balls, if anyone was not looking very closely, they would have missed, as I did initially, the balls were not perfectly round. The whole groups of boxes checked out to be slightly oblong. Went & purchased some more again, they had the accuracy I was expecting. Basically, what I'm mentioning is that some batches may be of poor quality, with other batches better than balls being used. A lesson I learned. All remaining boxes i had were melted down & cast into .648 balls. Hope that helps someone out there.
Now you need to try leather patches, I've read a couple books mentioning leather patching for rifles from 18th early 19th century America. Speaking of books, Southern Frontiersmen story of General Sam Dale, is a fantastic book.
Ties from the thrift store are a good source of silk, if you just need a small piece. Most ties are a single weave, which is the thin silk many people think of. There are silk Jacquard ties, however which are thicker, as they use multiple layers of silk to form a heavier woven pattern. If you try a silk Jacquard, the results might be different.
having good powder that burns with few foulings was crucial back in the day, if you have to shoot in battle... accuracy aside, the fact that (as i tought) the silk did not build up pressure as good as the patch means that a dirtyer barrel will stop beeing "loadable" in less shots... so yeah, not a great idea.
The patches are all still at the range. I'm going out there to film today. I'll go collect them all up and demonstrate what a good patch burn looks like versus a bad patch. But to make a long story short, if you have a hole burnt through your patch, that is generally a bad sign of either A. to loose of a fit in the bore B. over pressure or C. You're using silk and it's burning away lol
I don't recall whether or not the "silk" trick is actually from the mind of Cooper, or is an invention of a screenwriter, but it surely is consistent with Cooper's more "mystical" attributes he ascribes to his leading characters. If you've never read Mark Twain's scathing critique of Coopers writing style and "tall tale" telling, it is WELL worth the read!
Great experiment! I'm reading the first book. Was this line "silk for another 40 yards" in the book? Or just something they added to the movie. Either way, the book is fiction, so is the movie!
Another weave around patch that you can use and it's a lot better weave for your 490 diameter round ball it's kind of a unorthodox way of using it but you ever thought of using I mean they threw them away but you can use them as as wanting I know it's kind of odd but you're dealing with a muzzleloader and it's it's kind of an odd rifle anyway but I have found out if you wash them and let them dry and cut them in certain ways you need to cut them women's underwear yes That is probably the best round patch for that rifle that you ever seen it has the right thickness and it's easy to go down the barrel easier and you don't have the problems that you have with certain things because it's already made out of the material that you really need like silk but you want to go with white type underwear and you know how people have thrown their underwear into a box or something they use as a cleaning rag or whatever get into that and try some of those type of material because I've used that material and I still use it and that's why I'm saying that's silk in that type of underwear is real good and it's not real shabby and just cut it up in strips and it's very kind of elastic tight material but it's very strong material One thing you can do with that silk material soak it in boar butter and everything and it'll be a lot better to have and it's also really excellent When you got loading blocks because it doesn't dry it out and it doesn't rip and it still has the consistency of sliding that projectile down in that barrel better than normal and it's a really excellent load as well yeah can't believe it women's underwear huh find an old pair of the old grandma's undies and cut them up it's kind of unorthodox but really I mean what can you do it's just old rags you know
You wraped the ball....so that might have huge effects...repeat but do it like a klassic Patch, just behind the ball. The fouling might happen because the silkpatxh was still not thick engough
One thing about it is with that with Daniel Day Lewis's rifle that was in that movie That rifle had a really good rifle twist it had a one in 166-in rifle twist and that type of a rifle was a large caliber probably a 50 or 58 caliber and with that type of a rifle twist that would really help that rifling out those old pair of underwear of women's underwear they're already silk and it would already be perfect because it's soft and everything you don't have to wet it You just slide it in the barrel or you can put more butter on it to keep it from what do you call it burning from the powder You can do that but I wouldn't wet it with your mouth because it just it slows it down it slows the it going out of the barrel I would never wet it with my mouth I would use use it like it is dry or I would put some more butter on it and that's all I would do I wouldn't use anything else and you'll see the difference try it and I guarantee you you'll have a lot more fun and a lot more accuracy and that rifle that you're using is not a Pennsylvania rifle like Daniel Day Lewis's Kentucky long rifle that he was using That Kentucky long rifle that you got in 45 caliber try it with that with 110 grains of powder and you will see the difference in what you can do with that projectile and I guarantee you you're talking about accuracy it'll do it use a 457 diameter round ball and 45 caliber and I guarantee you you'll put a lot of deer on the table with that rifle with 110 grains of powder
I was told a long time ago the right powder charge for your rifle will produce a ”crack” sound, as apposed to a boom or K'thud sound. I don’t know how accurate this info is.
I thought that rifle twist, velocity and bullet weight was a combination to get right, if the silk is not holding the ball to get the correct spin then the accuracy fails, if your velocity is under then that will fail. I found when pistol shooting rolling my own, you can get good accuracy with light low velocity rounds, using the same bullet type you can get good accuracy with high velocity at the other end of the spectrum, but in between mid velocity the accuracy is wild. You have to find the balance of the three. I think the ball silk combo and ball size is a factor for crap velocity. Did you chrono you normal patch loads against the silk, that would reveal if you got your extra 40 yards.
It wasn't the velocity that was causing the holes. We did some further testing with some lighter charges and it caused the same exact problem. The silk is just far too flammable
Well first off the silk would have to be thick enough to fill the rifling when compressed just like linen or cotton. 15 to 18k works in most rifles. A thin scarf material of just .10k wouldn't do.. If too thin you would get lots of burn through and shredded patches.
Keep in mind, the vast majority of the movie-going public doesn't know shit about guns and shooting and even less about black powder firearms. The script writers hear and see things out in the world or one of them remembers once hearing Grandpa saying something about guns and figures it would sound cool in the movie. Now that it has been shown in said movie, people have heard it and now believe it. Just like "the .44 magnum is the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off". I actually had someone tell me that just the other day. I asked him how much shooting he does and he said none.
Typical movie screen writing. I don’t remember anything like that said in the novel. About the time this version was being produced, there was this myth regarding Teflon coating giving a bullet extra velocity, lethality, and even the ability to penetrate body armor. Kinda like the armor piercing hollow point bullet that was also being bandied around at that time. I’m thinking the writers used a little poetic license, based on these myths, to make it more interesting or insert an uninformed opinion. Awesome video.
Yeah I didn't think silk would work well but it was interesting that first round is still didn't burn perhaps it was the way you chewed on your wadding look like a dog with a chew toy happy Mother's Day to your mother and all the women in y'all's family
@@Real11BangBang I think you have the decimal point in the wrong place. The patch surrounds the ball, no? So if is a 0.18 patch it would be 0.18 on one side of the ball and 0.18 on the other, and that makes 0.36 (not even counting the patch wrinkles). Now 0.36 is more than a third of an inch, so if your gun is 50 caliber the largest ball you could shoot with that patch would be smaller than .20 caliber. I don't think so! Now a .018 patch I could believe but that is a very different thickness. Where you put the decimal point really matters! (BTW, back in the Dark Ages I used to tutor math.)
@11BangBang weave of the material / thicknesses to match historical examples differ from modern machine made products. Not practical to obtain examples of 18th century handmade items for the purpose of the experiment, but the manufacturing of textiles has changed. Powder quality used in that era is unknowable, therefore an unaddressed variable. Lead hardness is another. Was it spit patched? Does the amount of moisture in a silk patch change the rate at which it is consumed by an expanding cloud of burning gasses being released down the barrel of a firearm? I'm honestly comfortable not knowing. I agree that the premise of the silk patch offering another 40 yards is likely false. I just don't see any way of addressing it from 266 years forward of the actual materials involved. I can't even recall if the silk patch vs pillow ticking occurs in the novel or was invented by the screenwriters, (which I suspect to be so) in which case the entire controversy is even more pointless. In that case, it's simply a macgoffin (a plot device used in films or books that sets the characters into motion and drives the story) that you are meant to ignore and accept while experiencing a state of suspended disbelief.
Where’s the chronograph??? The whole concept is the silk is stronger and provides a better seal or otherwise allows greater velocity. There aren’t many ways beyond velocity to get extra range with a round ball??? I just feel like accuracy isn’t the idea??? I mean how would silk improve the accuracy???
Ok im a total noob, but just to prove how ignorant i am, do you (everyone) spit on the patch no matter the material? Or was it just the silk? If it is on all the patches, then a lot of people dont show that particular part. Lets just say im confused.
I don't have to wet it at all or anything then you're really going to be in trouble That's why it's made silk because it goes into the barrel better than licking it or having a wet patch Big mistake
I've never had any problems with the what I'm doing with mine I'm using old pairs of ladies underwear and they're made out of silk and I'm doing everything right The only thing I do is I put bore butter on them or I just leave them dry and I don't have any problems with anything and I'm still shooting a little further than normal The pelotaking is a little hard for me to put in my rifle because it's a little bit tighter it takes a little longer but with that silk I don't have the problem and with it doing what it's doing it's shooting on much better pattern with a hawken rifle with my 50 caliber Kentucky pedersoli I ain't never had any problems with it doing that but one thing I like shooting out of my Kentucky is carnacle bullets and if I can find some 490 diameter 245 grain buffalo bullets that was the best rifle round for my rifle out of my Kentucky long rifle and it was very well made projectile for that rifle with 110 grains of proyder RS gunpowder was a very potent combination for deer hunting which you cannot find those anymore That silk was really good when I went to my grandmother's house in the old rag box I would grab my old grandma's old underwear that she threw away in there because Grandpa was a mechanic and he used the old rags to clean his equipment better because of the weave it grabbed hold of material much better and I started using them and my muzzleloading rifles and they are very handy for as musket watting for the round ball and I didn't even have to lube them packed them tight down on the thing and way we went and I would bring him down more deer each year between 100 to 150 yards up to 200 yards with those round patches of old underwear with silk but I think is because your wedding it that's why they're having problem I never wedded mine I just let them into the gun dry That's why I had better accuracy or a lubricated them with bore butter and that was the only difference that I did
we have a chrono but the idea is to look at it through 18th century eyes. but since they didnt have a chrono i guess you wouldnt care what the guys that actually used these guns think
I live about 45 minutes from Fort William Henry and am actually a descendent of a man who was in Colonel Phineas Lyman's 1st Connecticut that was raised to help relieve the fort. Back in 1998-1999 I worked as a reenactor/tour guide at the museum, which is pretty much on the same spot as the original fort. One thing I can tell you is that living in the Adirondack Mountains, that the terrain is pretty rugged, and if you're lucky, you might get a shot where you can even see 100 yards between all the trees, the brush and the fact that nothing is very flat even in the mountains. It is very hilly, there are few spots where it is level from one area to another to where you can see. The longest shot I've ever made on a deer has been 65 yards or so, even our local gun range only goes to 125 yards because that's as far as they can go in between the trees and the brush from one area to another. In the film he was firing towards the woods end of the fort, away from the lake. I can tell you that the fort is also not as tall as they made it look. It's more or less the height of a two story house at best and it was built to the original plans. So given all the trees, even at best Hawkeye's shot would probably have been 100 to 125 yards at best with all the terrain. It's hard to judge the Village of Lake George where Fort William Henry is now because it's now a tourist town so there are few trees, but look at photos of nearby Prospect Mountain, only a couple miles away and you get a very good example of what the area looked like in the day.
Oh wow! I've always wanted to visit that part of the country. So much history there. As for the range problems, that is something that I've often read about but being from Kansas too many trees and mountains as to not allow for a long enough range was never really a problem out here lol
But it does bring up an important point that I plan to bring up in the future when talking about smooth bore muskets versus rifles and why a smooth bore musket often gets a bad rap. But in all honesty, when you can't shoot out past 125 yards and I found the maximum effective range of a (musket to be around 150) It does make you think doesn't it. I did a little deer hunting last winter with my smoothbore Charlottesville on the medicine lodge River which is as close to the thick woods if back east that we can find out here and I found that it was just as easy to get a shot with a smooth bore musket as it was with a rifle. Do to the limit in the line of sight.
PS. I heard a rumor that they actually brought up the mortars from fort Ticonderoga for that movie. Was wondering if there was any truth to this?
Buzzard, thanks for the "on the ground" perspective. Experiencing first hand as much as possible is the best way to understand history. Sometimes we have to experience it vicariously through someone else's first hand experience. That's why videos from channels such as yours and Ethan's are so very important to our community. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
TC
I can easily recall the silk part in the movie. I didn't believe that was actually true because of my experiences shooting muzzleloader firearms. Your presentation was great and showed the truth of silk and don't believe all shown the movies. Kudos to you for this one. Keep it up!
The Rogers Rangers served here at the Fort and Fort Edward which was their base camp. The US Special Forces come directly from him and his troops. A lot of what he taught is still in the manual they use.
This area is steeped in the French and Indian war and America Revolution History. I live just down the road from the American Revolution Saratoga battlefield where the Americans forced the surrender of a complete British army in he field. Thus got the French to come support us which was a crucial thing.
Not surprising that the silk is burning through. The powder charges for the big guns on battleships were bagged in silk because it would burn away completely and leave no burning embers to ignite the next powder load without having to sponge the bore like they did on the wooden ships. One of my grandfathers worked at the Army Ammunition plant in Charleston, IN where they bagged and canned the powder charges for them.
Love this! Well done.
Thank you, Santee
One of my favorite books (& movies). It's always worth the read and a little myth busting on the range is still time on the range! 👍👍
THE PILLOW TICKING IS 0.018 AND LUBED WITH BLACKIES GUN BUTTER. TARGET IS 100 YARDS AND WE ARE PRIMING WITH 2F.
Good morning from Syracuse NY brother and everyone else thank you for sharing your adventures in muzzleloader shooting
Welcome to the group!
I have been here watching ever since finding you CZcams my friends
Good morning
Asking the important questions.
So glad I stumbled on this channel.
That was fun Ethan! Thanks for doing that. I've been shooting traditional muzzleloaders for 45 years, and I've never seen anyone try silk for patch material. As for the movie, there is actually a scene just pryor to that one (if my worn out old memory serves me correctly) where Nathaniel actually acquires the silk from Cora, so it all works to create a memorable part of the whole movie. As for being accurate muzzleloading practice, it's Hollywood; what do you expect??? Lolol.😂
Having said all that, I REALLY enjoyed the video! Leave it to 11 Bang Bang to keep it interesting and entertaining!
TC
Yeah I kind of expected it wouldn't work too well anyhow. Still wanted to try it. I was hoping maybe I'd be pleasantly surprised like I was with the sharpe loading method but I think the difference is there that. Bernard Cornwall the guy who wrote the sharp series of books had actually found some references to spitting the ball down the barrel.
As for using silk to patch with, I don't think that was in the books. However, I have read a book on last of the Mohicans as a child but it was heavily abridged. What I do remember and it was in the original book is the way Hawkeye tracked a cannonball that he had found on the ground... (that's right. He tracked a cannonball lol) back to fort William Henry
As for James finimore Cooper well, let's just put it this way. If you want a good laugh, go read Mark Twain's thoughts on the accuracy of the processes used in James fenimore Cooper's books. It's pretty funny.
Thanks. I teach a lot of Rev War living history and you saved me from having to do the same.
I think the excess fouling from using silk happened because the silk is too slippery and not providing enough resistance for a good powder burn. A patch grease that is too slick can also ruin accuracy and consistency. Silk, then, neither promotes accuracy nor improves effective range, logic dictates the exact opposite. The patch burning through and either blowing out ahead of the ball or the ball running through it would explain the wild misses because a bare ball in a rifled bore can get some really odd and high-speed spins imparted to it that will arc it off in odd directions like a bad golf slice.
I did try this some years ago before YT, it shredded the patch and accuracy was out the window. Cool video Ethan. Keep them coming...!
Thank you!
Nice to see you shooting the Kibler Woodsrunner. I ordered a Woodsrunner in 45 cal and it has been shipped. It will be like Christmas day when it lands on my door.
Is it coming via pony express? 😂
Yes it will be like Christmas. You won't regret it. They are good. Shooters
Great video , was a question I had ever since I saw the movie. Good job
Flintlocks in period correct garb...that's dedication.
You might consider putting up a piece of cardboard about 6 foot square and do it again.
Theories? Yes! I wanna know if a revolutionary musket can actually heard around the world! 😮
All right, you twisted my arm lol
Well, in 1775 it was because it sparked off the continuation of the first truly world war
I loved the theme song, which is a traditional Scottish song, not American.
same thing ;)
I've noticed this in that movie. I always thought it odd. Wouldn't it, the silk be consumed? The big 14" & 16 ," guns in those turrets of WW2 battleships were loaded with 6each bags of powder weighing 110 pounds each. The bags themselves were made of silk so they would be completely consumed. So I've always wondered if a silk patch would be consumed
Well at least the part that is exposed to the burning powder will it seems
When I heard that statement about the silk in the film, I knew is was theatrical BS. But that's Hollywood for ya....
I wonder who put those words in ol' Leatherstocking's mouth James Fenimore Cooper or Michael Man/Christopher Crowe
I'm going to go out on a limb say it was Michael Mann/Christopher crow I can't remember if using silk for patch was in the books but just a little FYI. If you want a good laugh on the ridiculousness of some of the processes used in James fennimore Cooper's books just look up what Mark Twain thought about. James fennimore Cooper's writing it's pretty funny
Try raw silk as was common in the 18th century. It's a bit more substantial.
Great video, love the rifle, love the channel name. I was a 91B myself but spent all my time with 11 bang bang, 2/16, 1/41, 3/7….
It was an interesting movie, I love not far from where it took place (not where the movie was shot) and I knew they were going to Hollywood the entire thing when they started the movie with him running down a European Red Deer…in New York. Nope…
Outstanding job proving them wrong
Very interesting. These types of demonstrations are very useful. I am sure most musket shooters don't consider the patching to factor in the performance of the ball. It''s an after thought at best. But as you have shown, there appears to be some relevance to the type of patching used. Well done my Friend.
Thank you very much
Interesting experiment. A couple of comments from one who built his own flint rifle .50 about 40 years ago and a few since: Especially the last few shots, the lock time on that rifle is really slow. Most rifles, and muskets, are practically instant. Mine have no delay. Zero. I know that can be a whole topic by itself. The other is that powder is shooting very softly. At 90 grains that .50 should bark a whole lot more. That's the softest powder I've ever seen. I shoot Goex always and it performs way better.
Probably not what you wanted to hear. I ran the muzzleloader activity at our range every weekend for about 6 years. I had a dozen shooters at least each session and we had over 30 active members shooting everything from .40 to .75, flints, caps and a few matchlocks. I've shot and watched a lot of black powder shooting. While a .50 ball can carry 300 yard, I seriously question an effective range of 300 yards. Effective range is more like half that at most. You might hit a man but it won't be a very effective terminally. I'd suggest you chronograph these loads and use the camera to check the lock times against other guns. I like what you're doing here and encourage you to continue! Thanks for listening. Pete
thanks for the input
All through this video, I’m thinking of Hawkeye’s line in the movie “In case your aim is any better than your judgment.”
I wonder who and how makes up these detailed myths for movies. “silk, for another 40 yards”.
lol some script wrighter thought... that sounds cool and lets be honest.... it did
It's my experience that Hollywood tells a few fibbs to make a great story. It's always nice if it works that is a bonus. But who knows they used everything available for patching. Leather, cotton,silk, Lenin, paper. As you guys know you need good conscienced powder and tight patch ball combo great job fellows keep burning powder
You guys sure have good taste in music. I could listen to that all day long.
James Fenimore Cooper was not a frontiersman. He wrote The Last of the Mohicans (and, eventually, the Leatherstocking series - Leatherstocking being one of Hawkeye's other nicknames) because he and his wife would take turns reading aloud to each other in the evenings and, on one occasion, Cooper supposedly became disgusted with the quality of the book they were reading and said that he could write a better book than that. His wife asked then why didn't he, Cooper decided he would and The Last of the Mohicans was the result. At the time Cooper has apparently never even seen a Native American.
Cooper also never mentioned silk patches in The Last of the Mohicans book. In The Deerslayer he references using leather to patch bullets which Duelist1954 has tested on CZcams
That was a cool experiment
Thanks snapper
I'm one of your Patriots and I believe in the American way and I have to shoot muzzleloading rifles because with my severe reading disorder that I have I had to go with muzzleloading guns because the ammunition is getting so high for cartridge guns and so many regulations on cartridge guns that I have to have someone fill out the paperwork or read the paperwork to me so I can write down what I need to write down on it easy just buying a muzzleloading rifle or a cap and ball pistol out of a catalog because it's like a a bottle of Tylenol on a counter shelf
I like that, trust in God and keep your powder dry. Great video sir, thanks for the info.
Silk doesn't melt. Polyester, nylon, etc do. I tested a corner of a silk scarf, it burnt fast, but got it put out to save the scarf.I think mine burned even faster than yours. Be careful with silk around fire. Silk is also warm considering its weight. Nice to see the silk didn't completely disintegrate in the barrel. Maybe the multiple layers of patch is causing loss of accuracy?
I've been wanting to watch this for a couple of days. I was able to catch it this morning before work over some ☕.
Myth: Busted
He was wrong in the movie, the extra 40 yards achievement is actually unlocked by running through the woods shirtless with your flowing locks streaming behind you. 😁
Now this is the true superpower lol
No what he was saying was the tighter the weave of that patch that he was using is gives it a little bit more than another 50 yd in range tighter the patch and the weave in that cloth around the projectile makes it a little bit more tighter seal for it to hit down range with more about 50% more accuracy and gives it a little bit more range than normal patches I've noticed when each time that you used a pillow taking and everything that pillow taking is the same type but it's not as dense and it's not as smooth and shiny as silk where it goes down the barrel faster and it and it gives it a little bit more open to that musket ball so it gives it a little bit more power because I also use silk in my rifle for shooting round balls and it's a very potent combination if you're using a Kentucky long rifle and out of about 50 caliber Hawken rifle it's a pretty devastating projectile with that type of round and you're shooting a heavy duty round ball like 175 grain round ball and it does a lot of damage with that silk and it's faster to load without using a quick load without using a bullet starter is what he's saying and it also it does amendous knockdown power
Well done Ethan! I remember that from the film and wondered. Nice to see an expert test it. BTW, Have Caleb and Garret fix the base of the table; since you moved from the old range it developed the wobble.
That actually happened a couple of days ago. We had about 30 head of cattle on the pasture with the range on it and they wreaked havoc on the range over the past week including flipping the table over
@@Real11BangBang LOL been there, Cattle are SOOOO stupid... we had angus herford cross or "white faced angus" as they were called. good breed against pink-eye but DUMB. I got a permanent mark on my leg from a kick in the leg by a little bull once. Got even though; I CASTRATED him! Only one I ever felt good about :)
Oh, you were talking about patch material. When reading the title, I thought we were supposed to wear silk undies when shooting flintlocks. Never mind ......
Haha well it let you run another 40 yards comfortably
Well, I've wondered about that one for a long time. Thanks for doing the test.
What's the twist rate in that barrel?
Many movies they never measure powder, just chug a bunch straight out of the horn
I love the scene in "April Morning" when Robert Urich is teaching the kid to load under fire. I pretty sure the red coats were using paper cartridges, which would have been faster. He tells the kid just to dump what feels like the right amount of powder. Then he has the kid grab a handful of lead shot. He normally would use a certain number of round balls (he has a smoothbore). Then he asks if it feels right. He counts and he's close. Urich tells him to remember that feel when he loads. Makes sense. Hell, your probably gonna die soon anyhow...
Loved the BLK powder fun, broke up my day😂😂. Spit and elbow grease never looked so " revelutinary" . Thaught only cowboys used silk scarves,on their necks.
When in doubt use Xmas wrapping paper, ( as a turkey hunter, surplus shooter and just plain curious)🧐🧐used Elmo once, still got a dirty look.
January at Walmart, cheap big wht on back, don't let the misses see you packing it😂😂😂 just trust me. Save ammo and time, and possibly win the bet. Staple gun in hand.
lol
It may not be worth the effort but I might try using a lubed felt wad over-powder and a .495 ball.
Amen...trust in God! That was a fun experiment. It seems pretty easy to "debunk" Hollywood these days....Thanks for sharing.
thank you very much for watching!
Recently found your channel. Very informative. How long is the barrel on your Woodsrunner?
i beleave it is 39"
Very interesting test. Great video, looks like you should not use silk. Thanks for sharing.
lol i think that was the jist of it
Hello to all. Watching this a second time reminded me of a box of HORNADY .490 BALLS I purchased couple years ago. Couldnt group any shot, knowing I could make that happen of 1 inch at 100 yards. I then checked the balls, if anyone was not looking very closely, they would have missed, as I did initially, the balls were not perfectly round. The whole groups of boxes checked out to be slightly oblong. Went & purchased some more again, they had the accuracy I was expecting. Basically, what I'm mentioning is that some batches may be of poor quality, with other batches better than balls being used. A lesson I learned. All remaining boxes i had were melted down & cast into .648 balls. Hope that helps someone out there.
Now you need to try leather patches, I've read a couple books mentioning leather patching for rifles from 18th early 19th century America. Speaking of books, Southern Frontiersmen story of General Sam Dale, is a fantastic book.
Like watching your videos from uk
Thank you
Stay tuned in the upcoming year You should be seeing quite a bit on Great Britain's first combat rifle. The pattern 1776
Ties from the thrift store are a good source of silk, if you just need a small piece. Most ties are a single weave, which is the thin silk many people think of. There are silk Jacquard ties, however which are thicker, as they use multiple layers of silk to form a heavier woven pattern. If you try a silk Jacquard, the results might be different.
having good powder that burns with few foulings was crucial back in the day, if you have to shoot in battle... accuracy aside, the fact that (as i tought) the silk did not build up pressure as good as the patch means that a dirtyer barrel will stop beeing "loadable" in less shots... so yeah, not a great idea.
Maybe he meant corn silk lol.
It gave you an extra 40 yards... around the target.
lol yup
Sounds like you're dead on Duke
Could you describe for everyone the reason we check our patches after firing and the different things we may find out about our loads? Thank you!
The patches are all still at the range. I'm going out there to film today. I'll go collect them all up and demonstrate what a good patch burn looks like versus a bad patch. But to make a long story short, if you have a hole burnt through your patch, that is generally a bad sign of either
A. to loose of a fit in the bore
B. over pressure
or C. You're using silk and it's burning away lol
@@Real11BangBang Too much powder vs too little, etc.
@@williamschlosser77pretty much
@@Real11BangBang 😂
I don't recall whether or not the "silk" trick is actually from the mind of Cooper, or is an invention of a screenwriter, but it surely is consistent with Cooper's more "mystical" attributes he ascribes to his leading characters. If you've never read Mark Twain's scathing critique of Coopers writing style and "tall tale" telling, it is WELL worth the read!
lol oh yeah o have had a good laugh over the indian missing the keel boat that is bigger then the river myself
@@Real11BangBang Oh yeah! An 18 ft. wide keel boat on a 20 ft. "river" and they STILL can't get aboard! ;-)) Too funny!
Great experiment! I'm reading the first book. Was this line "silk for another 40 yards" in the book? Or just something they added to the movie. Either way, the book is fiction, so is the movie!
im not sure i dont recall if ot was in the book
@@Real11BangBang I found out it was not. It's pure Hollywood!
Another weave around patch that you can use and it's a lot better weave for your 490 diameter round ball it's kind of a unorthodox way of using it but you ever thought of using I mean they threw them away but you can use them as as wanting I know it's kind of odd but you're dealing with a muzzleloader and it's it's kind of an odd rifle anyway but I have found out if you wash them and let them dry and cut them in certain ways you need to cut them women's underwear yes That is probably the best round patch for that rifle that you ever seen it has the right thickness and it's easy to go down the barrel easier and you don't have the problems that you have with certain things because it's already made out of the material that you really need like silk but you want to go with white type underwear and you know how people have thrown their underwear into a box or something they use as a cleaning rag or whatever get into that and try some of those type of material because I've used that material and I still use it and that's why I'm saying that's silk in that type of underwear is real good and it's not real shabby and just cut it up in strips and it's very kind of elastic tight material but it's very strong material One thing you can do with that silk material soak it in boar butter and everything and it'll be a lot better to have and it's also really excellent When you got loading blocks because it doesn't dry it out and it doesn't rip and it still has the consistency of sliding that projectile down in that barrel better than normal and it's a really excellent load as well yeah can't believe it women's underwear huh find an old pair of the old grandma's undies and cut them up it's kind of unorthodox but really I mean what can you do it's just old rags you know
You wraped the ball....so that might have huge effects...repeat but do it like a klassic Patch, just behind the ball. The fouling might happen because the silkpatxh was still not thick engough
You should have used white silk instead of red because that dye in that red will go up faster and it will cause problems but die is the problem
One thing about it is with that with Daniel Day Lewis's rifle that was in that movie That rifle had a really good rifle twist it had a one in 166-in rifle twist and that type of a rifle was a large caliber probably a 50 or 58 caliber and with that type of a rifle twist that would really help that rifling out those old pair of underwear of women's underwear they're already silk and it would already be perfect because it's soft and everything you don't have to wet it You just slide it in the barrel or you can put more butter on it to keep it from what do you call it burning from the powder You can do that but I wouldn't wet it with your mouth because it just it slows it down it slows the it going out of the barrel I would never wet it with my mouth I would use use it like it is dry or I would put some more butter on it and that's all I would do I wouldn't use anything else and you'll see the difference try it and I guarantee you you'll have a lot more fun and a lot more accuracy and that rifle that you're using is not a Pennsylvania rifle like Daniel Day Lewis's Kentucky long rifle that he was using That Kentucky long rifle that you got in 45 caliber try it with that with 110 grains of powder and you will see the difference in what you can do with that projectile and I guarantee you you're talking about accuracy it'll do it use a 457 diameter round ball and 45 caliber and I guarantee you you'll put a lot of deer on the table with that rifle with 110 grains of powder
this rifle is 1 in 66 and in 50
Dry balling does suck. Had to use the corkscrew from a $1.00 knife to get the ball out of that revolver.
Good thing about Flintlocks is I can generally shove some 4F down the touch hole and make it push the ball out the barrel
@@Real11BangBang had to do that with a different gun. Watched the ball plop out about 6 feet in front of the barrel.
Maybe try my method.
I sometimes use leather with my own grease. 2 pts bee wax and 1 pt bacon grease.
I was told a long time ago the right powder charge for your rifle will produce a ”crack” sound, as apposed to a boom or K'thud sound. I don’t know how accurate this info is.
The magic of Hollywood.
Brother you need to put up just a big piece of cardboard so that you know where those impacts are.
I thought that rifle twist, velocity and bullet weight was a combination to get right, if the silk is not holding the ball to get the correct spin then the accuracy fails, if your velocity is under then that will fail. I found when pistol shooting rolling my own, you can get good accuracy with light low velocity rounds, using the same bullet type you can get good accuracy with high velocity at the other end of the spectrum, but in between mid velocity the accuracy is wild. You have to find the balance of the three. I think the ball silk combo and ball size is a factor for crap velocity. Did you chrono you normal patch loads against the silk, that would reveal if you got your extra 40 yards.
It wasn't the velocity that was causing the holes. We did some further testing with some lighter charges and it caused the same exact problem. The silk is just far too flammable
The function of the patch is to grip the the ball to the rifling. Silk is way to slippery, you should check the balls for rifling marks.
Well first off the silk would have to be thick enough to fill the rifling when compressed just like linen or cotton. 15 to 18k works in most rifles.
A thin scarf material of just .10k wouldn't do..
If too thin you would get lots of burn through and shredded patches.
Are you saying that
Daniel Day-Lewis lied to me?!?!
lol no never! hawkeye lied!we all know when Daniel day lewis steps into a roll Daniel day lewis ceases to exist
@@Real11BangBang 😂
Keep in mind, the vast majority of the movie-going public doesn't know shit about guns and shooting and even less about black powder firearms. The script writers hear and see things out in the world or one of them remembers once hearing Grandpa saying something about guns and figures it would sound cool in the movie. Now that it has been shown in said movie, people have heard it and now believe it. Just like "the .44 magnum is the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off". I actually had someone tell me that just the other day. I asked him how much shooting he does and he said none.
Yeah that's pretty much how it is. There's a lot of fake experts out there as Paul Harrell would call them
Typical movie screen writing. I don’t remember anything like that said in the novel. About the time this version was being produced, there was this myth regarding Teflon coating giving a bullet extra velocity, lethality, and even the ability to penetrate body armor. Kinda like the armor piercing hollow point bullet that was also being bandied around at that time. I’m thinking the writers used a little poetic license, based on these myths, to make it more interesting or insert an uninformed opinion. Awesome video.
thankyou. well it least they gave us an interesting topic to tack about for a few decades
If Cora gives you some silk you shoot the silk! :)
lol oh yes
Greased patch does not burn like dry.imo
If it were true we all would have been doing it
yup
Yeah I didn't think silk would work well but it was interesting that first round is still didn't burn perhaps it was the way you chewed on your wadding look like a dog with a chew toy happy Mother's Day to your mother and all the women in y'all's family
That could have had something to do with it. Also thank you. I will tell Mrs. Woods That is that you said. Happy mother's Day!
You should be using raw silk not the type your using. Big difference.
Don't believe everything you see in the movies! Or the internet :)
A point one (.1) patch? I don't think so! That would be a 1/10th inch patch. Pretty damn thick, no? Maybe .01, one hundredth inch, No?
point 0.18 audio cut out
@@Real11BangBang I think you have the decimal point in the wrong place. The patch surrounds the ball, no? So if is a 0.18 patch it would be 0.18 on one side of the ball and 0.18 on the other, and that makes 0.36 (not even counting the patch wrinkles). Now 0.36 is more than a third of an inch, so if your gun is 50 caliber the largest ball you could shoot with that patch would be smaller than .20 caliber. I don't think so! Now a .018 patch I could believe but that is a very different thickness. Where you put the decimal point really matters! (BTW, back in the Dark Ages I used to tutor math.)
Interesting, but too many variables to be insightful as to the viability of the original premise.
What are some of the variables that you would like to see me eliminate and let's see if we can make it happen
@11BangBang
weave of the material / thicknesses to match historical examples differ from modern machine made products. Not practical to obtain examples of 18th century handmade items for the purpose of the experiment, but the manufacturing of textiles has changed.
Powder quality used in that era is unknowable, therefore an unaddressed variable. Lead hardness is another.
Was it spit patched? Does the amount of moisture in a silk patch change the rate at which it is consumed by an expanding cloud of burning gasses being released down the barrel of a firearm?
I'm honestly comfortable not knowing. I agree that the premise of the silk patch offering another 40 yards is likely false. I just don't see any way of addressing it from 266 years forward of the actual materials involved. I can't even recall if the silk patch vs pillow ticking occurs in the novel or was invented by the screenwriters, (which I suspect to be so) in which case the entire controversy is even more pointless. In that case, it's simply a macgoffin (a plot device used in films or books that sets the characters into motion and drives the story) that you are meant to ignore and accept while experiencing a state of suspended disbelief.
Where’s the chronograph??? The whole concept is the silk is stronger and provides a better seal or otherwise allows greater velocity. There aren’t many ways beyond velocity to get extra range with a round ball??? I just feel like accuracy isn’t the idea???
I mean how would silk improve the accuracy???
to be honest if it were a thing accuracy would be all they would really have to go on as cronagraghs were not a thing back then
You mean I can't get an extra 40 yards to kill tyrants and aquire freedom (in the revolutionary war of course)
Ok im a total noob, but just to prove how ignorant i am, do you (everyone) spit on the patch no matter the material? Or was it just the silk? If it is on all the patches, then a lot of people dont show that particular part. Lets just say im confused.
only if it is not a pre lubed material
Great test. It's just me but when I see somebody pound a ramrod on a charge..I cringe.
dont ruin my child hood lol
lol sorry
I don't have to wet it at all or anything then you're really going to be in trouble That's why it's made silk because it goes into the barrel better than licking it or having a wet patch Big mistake
I've never had any problems with the what I'm doing with mine I'm using old pairs of ladies underwear and they're made out of silk and I'm doing everything right The only thing I do is I put bore butter on them or I just leave them dry and I don't have any problems with anything and I'm still shooting a little further than normal The pelotaking is a little hard for me to put in my rifle because it's a little bit tighter it takes a little longer but with that silk I don't have the problem and with it doing what it's doing it's shooting on much better pattern with a hawken rifle with my 50 caliber Kentucky pedersoli I ain't never had any problems with it doing that but one thing I like shooting out of my Kentucky is carnacle bullets and if I can find some 490 diameter 245 grain buffalo bullets that was the best rifle round for my rifle out of my Kentucky long rifle and it was very well made projectile for that rifle with 110 grains of proyder RS gunpowder was a very potent combination for deer hunting which you cannot find those anymore That silk was really good when I went to my grandmother's house in the old rag box I would grab my old grandma's old underwear that she threw away in there because Grandpa was a mechanic and he used the old rags to clean his equipment better because of the weave it grabbed hold of material much better and I started using them and my muzzleloading rifles and they are very handy for as musket watting for the round ball and I didn't even have to lube them packed them tight down on the thing and way we went and I would bring him down more deer each year between 100 to 150 yards up to 200 yards with those round patches of old underwear with silk but I think is because your wedding it that's why they're having problem I never wedded mine I just let them into the gun dry That's why I had better accuracy or a lubricated them with bore butter and that was the only difference that I did
Not sure which is sadder: Hollywoods idea of facts or those who believe it.
Last of the Moehikkins......😅
lol
Teeth are not tools.
lol every military that has ever used paper cartridges would disagree with you
@@Real11BangBang truth. Point made. I guess the Brits liked people with teeth to "recruit" .
I’m disappointed. I’ve been lied to by Hollywood. Who can I turn to for valid information?
lol
TLDW: SILK patch bad...accuracy ruined. TVM.
lol yup
Well Ethan…. thanks for ruining my favorite movie for me lol
haha still a great show
@@Real11BangBang it’s not the same anymore 😂
Its a movie. Its not real life, just made up to make a story.
No chrono, no care.
we have a chrono but the idea is to look at it through 18th century eyes. but since they didnt have a chrono i guess you wouldnt care what the guys that actually used these guns think