I'm a bowhunter and we did this test 30 years ago in Australia, when at a Hunting Fair held at an Army base. The army guys stirred us up about our toy bows and arrows and Junior "Robin Hoods". So we invited them to a similar test. We were shooting through sand bags with a 50lb recurved and the army were using a 303 rifle, at 20 meters. Well we had the last laugh, with the bullet going in only half a bag and the arrow going through three bags and kept going out the back. They weren't so sure about our toy bows then and we're amazed.... (lucky they didn't use solids) The boy is a very effective and humane piece of hunting equipment for sure. Chris Williams.
The penetration of the bow is better simply because of pressure = F/A. The tip of arrow has a much smaller area than a rounded bullet, the bullet tip gets even bigger as the mushroom shape increases whereas the arrow head stays the same, thus the arrow applies pressure to a very small area and the bullet applies pressure to an ever increasing area.
It could be interesting to repeat the same test with target a 30 or 50 meters for bow and rifles and see the results for shoots at the same distance. Thank you.
@@IdahoSewing absolutely not. Max velocity is as the nock releases from the string. Same as the bullet, the first millimeter outside of the barrel is its max velocity. Arrows have more surface area, which equates to more drag. This reduces its ballistic coefficiency. Penetration would absolutely decrease, not increase.
Nice test, but in Germany we'd call it "Comparing apples with pears", because you changed the factor of the distance. An arrow from 10m delivers more energy than one over 20m, ofcourse. Second: the cutting edges of the hunting tip open up the buckets without deforming - so you should have used FMJ bullets instead of deforming softpoints. 🙂 Third: The penetration might be higher in this case of testing scenario, but don't forget the disadvantages of an arrow shot - the animals can hear the loosing sound and start to move before the arrow hits their body. Especially on higher ranges above 30 or even 40m... Fourth: Remember to the cavity effect a bullet produces because of it's expansion. The pressure wave rolling through the body is massive. With ballistic soap or gel you could have seen the outstanding difference. Nevertheless: a nice video and an interesting topic. Thank you for your time and effort. 🙂
Assuming a broadside shot approximately through the center of the lungs, I am confident the arrow will put the animal down sooner than the bullet more often than not. This is based on my personal experience of many successful hunts using rifles and bows. It may seem hard to believe given the power of a large rifle, but I have seen it happen many times. I doubt the game he is hunting will jump the string.
Great test Pedro and very interesting. The only factor that complicates such a comparison is the reality of the actual difference in the hunt, between the rifle and the bow...with the rifle you can be a reasonable (safer) distance from your target species than with the bow. This implies very different hunting/tracking/bush skills...to safely get 10 to 20 meters from a buffalo with a bow takes hunting to a different level, as you would know. You and your dad must enjoy the hunt👌🏻
As far as penetration goes, how much does distance actually affect the results? We can easily use a ballistics calculator to determine the retained velocity of the bullet at extended distances. At 200 meters, this bullet would still retain about 80% of its velocity. I'm not sure about calculating retained velocity of the arrow. It would be nice to see the test repeated at 100 and 200 meters, but I would guess that the arrow would still go very deep. The challenge would be hitting the buckets at those distances with the arrow.
@@IdahoSewing It won't be wery drastic up to 100m at least, because arrows are made to fly with very low drag. They will retain their speed better than a bullet. I have seen people shoot at 75m and the arrow barely slowed down on its way. One thing to keep in mind for penetration: A hunting bullet is made to disintegrate, to dump most of its energy into the target and break everything there, an arrow is made to cut through tissue. I bet the test would have a different outcome when using steel core ammo. It would probably still be close.
@@kinanshmahell8065 Any bullet made for hunting rifles is made to dump its energy fast, be it hard cast or full copper bullets. They either mushroom, fragment or tumble, the result is the same, a big energy dump within the first 20cm/10" of the targets soft tissue and less penetration depth. This creates a big temporary wound cavity that disrupts organs an blood vessels quite far away from the bullets trajectory. Not even steel core penetrator rounds are immune to tumbling when hitting soft tissue, but they don't deform (as much) and thus lose less energy and can go much deeper. A .22lr round nose will penetrate as deep as a 9mm hollow point into gelatin, but the 9mm is much more destructive. Tissue destruction is wanted in hunting and self defense, penetration not so much. I am not saying penetration does not matter, but you normally want as much damage to occur in the vital organs of the intended target for it to go down for sure.
@@IdahoSewing The arrow here as a whole is 3 times heavier than the bullet used. This weight difference is very advantageous in penetration power. The tip of the arrow penetrates with a force of approximately 4 tons at a distance of 80 yards. This force will pierce any skin.
My guess is that the 375 goes through all 4 and the bow goes through 3 buckets. Either way, both weapons are fully capable of putting down a Cape. Great video man!
I've seen a test like this before. The bow/arrow usually wins at close range. Why not test from the same distance? Shoot 20m for both? I still think the bow would do better but it would have been nice to see the comparison. Or for that matter, how about doing a similar test with only a bow and use different distances. I think most would like to see how much affect distances has on a bow.
Think it's going to be the same.. soft tip ammo splatters on impact as soon as it hit the target it gets bigger and stops. The arrow conserves it's shape. Unless you are going out of range effectines for the arrow compare to the bullet.
As an archer that regularly shoot a 70'ish lb compound with about 470'ish grain arrows, I'd be interested in seeing you put a few different arrow weights to this same test. I'd first he interested in the same arrow younhad setup, minus the 93 gr insert to see if that still give you enough penetration m, but gives you a bit extra speed for a bit flatter trajectory. It wpuld still be about a 570'ish gr arrow and heavier than your average hunting arrow. Then maybe a test with a 3rd arrow that is around the 450 gr weight. It would interesting to compare the velocity, energy, momentum and penetration of all three arrow builds assuming you could use the same broadhead for each one (to try and keep that variable the same), or maybe same broadhead but a lighter weight if they make them. Just an idea. Cool test. A lot of people forget that with the right arrowhead, midevil archers were able to pierce aknight's armor, and chainmail(i.e. the bodkin head). They were also flinging even heavier wooden arrows a couple hundred yards, or so!
@Travis Minton The testing for light vs heavy arrows is skewed to get the desired results you want. Simply put, in a uniform medium the arrow with the highest kinetic energy (KE) will out penetrate the arrow with a lower KE, all else being equal. This is due to the fact that KE is the ability of an object to do work. However, if you use an inconsistent medium with varying angles of impact and densities, the heavier arrow will generally do better. The problem with this is that there is no way to make this test consistent. Therefore, the results are inconsistent. What I can say with 100% certainty is that an arrow with its center of gravity closer to the poin (FOC) will deflect less than an arrow that is balanced more near the middle. The deflection of an arrow will hemorrhage its potential energy, KE, making it penetrate much less. A heavier arrow will have more momentum than a light arrow as well. Momentum is the ability for the arrow to stay on its course at its current velocity. It will be entering the medium at a reduced velocity compared to the lighter arrow. It sheds its velocity slower than the lighter arrow and will penetrate the same as the light arrow, providing it has the same KE. Once again, if you put angles and inconsistencies in the medium, the heavier arrow will divert less from its original track. Thus increasing its penetration in a straight line over the lighter weight arrow. Essentially, both arrows with the same KE will travel the same distance. One will just do it in a straighter line than the other, minus the drag on the shaft of the arrow if the diversion is enough to allow for that to occur. I know this is a long-winded response, but it's the simplest way I can explain a very complex thing.
The arrow here as a whole is 3 times heavier than the bullet used. This weight difference is very advantageous in penetration power. The tip of the arrow penetrates with a force of approximately 4 tons at a distance of 80 yards. This force will pierce any skin.
Pedro, gracias por tus videos. Aprendo de armas, animales, su caza y costumbres, lugares preciosos de caza . . . todo con simpatía, camaradería y cultura. Es un placer. Ah! y clases gratuitas de inglés. Sigue así. Un saludo desde Daroca (Zaragoza)
The bow is important to be accurate and not to spook the animal. The temporary cavity that happens when a bullet goes through an animal does a lot of damage unless you are more than 200 yards or more out (depending on the cartridge). A metal jacket bullet penetrates better but also does a ton of damage with the temporary cavity it causes because it maintains more velocity as it travels through the mass it hits. Soft bullets make bigger exit wound if it makes it through. An animal takes time to go down with an arrow.
Broad-headed arrows, especially if they hit the internal organs, will kill the animal before it realizes what hit it. An arrow sheds much more blood than a bullet.
Folks, I think the point that Pedro is making is that a bow is very capable of making a clean kill on a buffalo. Yes variable this and that but I think he made his point.
Cool My fav is the bow The most lethal if one understands the anatomy and the sequence of events with a heart or lung shot, massive drop in blood pressure, especially the heart. Like you told it how it is, the arrow is the most important thing and the head with least resistance. Almost all heads will penetrate but many present too much friction, the simple "broadhead" in my humble opinion is still the best unless one plans on hitting bine which is not the right way forward for a good hunt/dispatch. Just found your channel and will subscribe. Fellow bowhunter from Australia.
Exactly as I expected. I didn't know how many buckets the bullet and arrow would go thru, but I knew the arrow would fare better. This test medium is very hard on the bullet & that too, a soft bullet at very high speed. A heavy hard solid at moderate speed will do much better, but end of the day, it doesn't really matter for the purpose of your demo. This gun-bullet combo is known to be adequate for buffalo and you have shown that your bow-arrow combo is in the same league from a terminal ballistics perspective; in fact better in terms of straight line penetration. Nicely done 👍
Finally some one does the power to show standard and even near semi high caliber hinting ammo vs a good compound bow Love to see the .308 at the bow set to 60lb-65lb that's seems to be a standard hunting draw weight. Maybe even the north american minimum 44lbs dar and again .180 Remington. Or 5.56mm/.223
Penetration does not matter at all. But the transfer of Kinetic energy is the important factor. It has to be the rifle the winner. Now I watch the film.
People nowadays don't believe in the technology that a hunting bow has, many still think it's something indigenous, my father when he saw my bow he laughed and told me if that would really kill a pig
It is not clear how heavy a 77-pound compound bow is to be drawn for those who haven't tried a compound bow before. I believe it's fair to say, It is heavy enough to prevent you to shoot many arrows on a training day as an experienced bow shooter. And as an unexperienced bow shooter, there's no way you even can draw it back once 🙂
An arrow shot with traditional Turkish horn bows can pierce plate armor at a distance of 300 meters.With modern roller springs it can be shot at long distances and if you can hit it it will pierce lethally.If you're a Serb or Croatian, you might like a sniper rifle better. That doesn't mean you're smarter or more knowledgeable.
@@miroslav_zink4312 The answer is simple; it takes 12 years to make bows and arrows, there is a difficult construction process that requires mastery. Training an archer is a life-long job. However, making a rifle is easy, and using a rifle is also easy. If archers who lived in the 4th century had lived in the 19th century The outcome of the wars would have been different.Does this result show that using a bow and arrow is worse than using a rifle. Until the second half of the 19th century, the arrow's rate of fire, range and effect were more than rifles.
I have shot a fair number of buffalo. In each case the bullet was found on the other side just under the skin on a broadside shot. Now, in just about every case the bullet went through a rib (all were double lung shots). I wonder how an arrow would handle hitting a rib first, whether it would deflect or slow down etc.. In fairness I was using a .500 NE double rifle not a .375.
This experiment was evident before doing it. The projectile has a hydrostatic effect that the arrow will never have, this effect is accentuated if you do it with a soft point projectile as is the case. If you're looking for penetration, do it with a monolithic tip.
As you say, the arrow is very different from the bullet. I would guess that with a non-expanding bullet, the H&H would be similar to the arrow? The arrow has tremendous sectional density, because it is smaller frontal area than the bullet, and twice as heavy. Also, it is sharp. The arrow's weakness is its side-friction. Also, it creates very little "splash," which gives stopping-power. I agree with your choice to avoid extreme over-penetration. This reduces danger to the non-targeted animals, and also insures that the bullet's energy is deposited in the target. Considering that you are depositing around 4,500 ft. lbs. of energy, this should have an effect if placed correctly. As always, anyone can miss anything, but we wish you good success!
I had it exactly the other way round. 1.5 buckets for the broadhead and 2 buckets for the bullet. Incredible penetration from the arrow. The only thing I would say is that with the drop off of performance of the arrow in flight, over distance, is 10m the distance you will be taking the buffalo at or will it be longer? If it's longer, my guess the bullets will eventually show better performance than the arrow, and that could easily be from 30m. Your opint is well made, though. In the right hands, at the right range, bow hunting is incredibly effective and lethal. An enjoyable test to watch, thanks!
Im so happy ive come across your channel, the first i saw was your adventure in Scotland, now im hooked. From someone who's never hunted or know anyones that hunts, i find it so interesting and natural. As for this test i cant wait to see, i would guess the bullet would be best. But lets see
I liked this test, but. There is a video out there showing the difference in penetration of arrows vs bullets in sand that says this test is skewed to favor the bow. Bullets won't penetrate as far into sand as an arrow. Todds Workshop did the arrow side and I believe Demolition Ranch did the bullet side of the test. That being said, I am a bowhunter too. Tho I only hunt small game with a traditional style bow. And usually use blunts on birds and othe small game. Good luck with your hunt! Jorge Sprave demonstrated some broadheads designed for African big game that some doctor came up with that I think you should try out.
Hi Pedro, great video. With bows you get expandable broadheads which will not have the same penetration as fixed broadheads. With the rifle .375 h&h there would be a different penetration depending if you use monolithic solids or soft nose which you used. Try the penetration test with the same arrow and broadhead but use a monolithic solid in the rifle.
I would've used a solid bullet in the 375..... the DGX is designed to exand and dump energy, this ultimately reduces penetration. Still a cery cool test
I like to shoot with the rifle ,and the test was not taken on the same distance, i think the result won't be the same. Thank you for this beautiful video.
Lo importante es el poder de parada o detención del animal al momento del impacto. Es claro que se puede cazar cualquier animal con un arco, pero puedes detener una carga (ataque) de un animal peligroso (bufalo) con un arco? NO La penetración de las flechas es un asunto impresionante, pero no para cacería. Desde mi punto de vista debemos abatir el animal con el menor sufrimiento para él. En Africa nunca te dejan cazar un animal peligroso con arco si no van contigo de apoyo uno o varios rifles por decir poco. Buen video. Saludos
Cool test but we know that slower, heavier is better penetration in general. Faster and lighter equals more energy on target. You would rather that arrow slip through your gut than the bullet liquifying your organs. I like that this is sand and not the same old water jugs or gel blocks. Nice to see something different.
Genial vídeo Pedro.!!! Muy ilustrativo y le has conseguido dar un dinamismo que lo hace muy atractivo visualmente hablando. Sería interesante ver penetraciones de otros tipos de flechas y con otras potencias de arco. Gran trabajo!!!!
Hola Pedro. Aunque te sigo desde hace mucho tiempo en los dos canales, creo que nunca me he decidido a comentarte . Pero en este caso tengo que decirte, que estoy y no estoy de acuerdo contigo, y ya te comento de antemano que no soy arquero. Me explico: Creo que para la caza es tan importante el poder de parada como la penetración , pero en este caso quitas mas importante sea la cavitacion que produce la fuerza de una bala en un animal como el que cuenta , ello es decisivo para que no te de un buen susto. Si me pongo a clavar un clavo y me doy en el dedo con el martillo , me reventare el dedo , los huesos y lo que pille dependiendo de la fuerza del impacto, puedo hasta perder el dedo, pero si emcambio se me desliza el clavo y me lo traspasa, tendre el daño que la hemorragia pueda producirme. Se que el sangrado que produce una flecha en el interior tocando órganos principales, hace que el celebró del animal termine colapsando, pero eso tiene un tiempo y contra mas fortaleza tiene un animal, mayor también su capacidad de aguante . Se que tanto el arco como el rifle lo pueden matar, pero en piezas tan grandes, con tanta fortaleza y tan peligrosas, soy más de la opinión de tu padre. El año pasado fue una cacería magistral y este estare encantado como siempre, de ver el estupendo trabajo que siempre nos traes, confió que con tu experiencia logres una bonita pieza y una excelente caceria, pero aparte de la suerte que puedas tener, ten mucho cuidado. Un saludo. José Manuel
The Bullet is constructed to transfer most of it's Energy without! penetrating too much, you want to damage the vitals and you want the impact shock, the momentum of the bullet. The Arrow is exact the opposite. It's constructed to penetrate as deep as possible, because you want it to cut as much flesh and blood vessels as possible. Because you never have an arrow with such an impact shock like a bullet and the killing effect is the massive blood loss. Sometimes an Animal, hit by an Arrow, don't flee but stand still and you are afraid you missed, but you see the massive blood loss. But some seconds later it slowly goes down and thats it. It seems that the arrow not even have the slightest impact shock. And it also seems, that is it not extremely painful. So I think it's stupid to compare the penetrating power of these both weapons, because they are build to have very different effects.
Sounds like a fun trip. What broadhead is that? That's a solid setup with that bow and the VAP SS arrow, but if I were going after buffalo with my bow I'd be looking at a monolithic broadhead made of tool-steel, not a two piece with an aluminum ferrule.
Yes you will shoot the buffalo with the arrow. But the PH will finish it of with a gun. I hope it is not the case for you and you finish it with the bow. Enjoy the hunt.
Muy interesante el video, pero si lo realmente lo probado era penetracion exclusivamenehubiera estado bien probar con balas FMJ en el 375 HH y en ell 308 win. Un saludo.
77 libras, tu si que eres un búfalo! Impresionante la penetración de la flecha y yo creo que sin pluma hubiera pasado el tercer balde. Deseando ver el vídeo de Uganda! Saludos
Excellent technical comparison...But real flesh temperament and adrenaline is the great equalizer. A man living in Phalaborwa, a mining town bordering the Kruger National Park, shot and killed a Buffalo bull in his garden using a .22 rimfire...so it's possible under ideal conditions etc etc. However, as Peter Hathaway Capstick so eloquently wrote " Cape Buffalo don't read the ballistics charts" In my 46 years of managing/ culling/ and persuit of wounded dangerous thick skinned game, may I offer a little advice, which you can use or lose ...Don't play with bows and arrows and small calibre weapons when dealing with Africa's thick skinned game. Show them the respect they deserve and despatch them humanely with the best tools at your disposal. For every Buffalo killed with an arrow, many more run off wounded only to be despatched days later with a rifle. In Robert Ruark's words ( not mine) " Use Enough Gun"
665 grain arrow and 77 lbs Bow is already a massive Combination. Not many people can handle a 77 lbs bow. Btw. Arrows better get through sand than bullets
Too many Variables for a test like this. An arrow with a broadhead is designed to slice with the least ammount of resistance where as a bullet is desgined to dump as much energy into an animals cavity as possible (hydrostatic shock). Different bullet compounds/weights along with different broadhead cutting diameters and weights would all change the results drastically.
All you learned was the differences of arrow vs rifle penetration on sandy dirt. Just like the Winchester designers of the original SilverTip found out when they used duct seal as a test material, they ended up designing a projectile that worked really well in duct sealant, but sucked in flesh.
eu sei da penetração melhor do arco,mas temos mais aspectos a serem considerados,a precisão,afinal duvido fazer grupos com o arco igual a do rifle a 40 metros por exemplo,segundo,a capacidade de transmitir energia,que alias é mais importante em termos de segurança que a perfuração e finalmente o mais importante,a morte limpa e justa ao animal,a quanitade de tiros de arco com morte imediata é minma versus o rifle...abs
Great test. Question … I wonder if a solid bullet would perform differently ? The 300 grain bullet is designed to mushroom and stay inside the animal. A Broadhead isn’t designed to mushroom. Good luck !
Excellent tests Pedro. For shooting ( I'm not a bowhunter ) a heavy for calibre projectile, with good SD and bonded, or core locked construction, travelling at Moderate speed, will give the best penetration. In my experience. I think the test medium is way too hard and could be replaced with something more akin to real flesh.
Por poco y te llevas la ceja 😊 con e rifle de tu Padre. Por cierto muy bonito rifle que tiene tu padre. Me gusto la prueba que hiciste entre la flecha y el rifle. Fue excelente video. Muy buena información. Saludos desde Houston, TX U.S.A
Hace mucho cuando compre un arco recurvo mire un video antiguo en blanco y negro del ejercito de Estados Unidos probaron arcos vs pistolas y fusiles en latas con tierra y el arco era el unico que logro traspasar todo.Por eso usan en guerras armas como arcos y ballestas en operaciones en la junglas.
Experimento super interesante, pero con la punta que le has puesto a la flecha vas a necesitar una pluma más alta que las blazzer, que funcionan muy bien, pero estabilizan mejor unas plumas más largas y altas, con helicoidal, para conseguir estabilizar la flecha y que sea bien precisa. Aún así, si te funciona bien con las blazzer pues palante, pero planteatelo porque con el drag que va a generar esa punta, la precisión puede verse comprometida con ciertas plumas.
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I'm a bowhunter and we did this test 30 years ago in Australia, when at a Hunting Fair held at an Army base. The army guys stirred us up about our toy bows and arrows and Junior "Robin Hoods". So we invited them to a similar test. We were shooting through sand bags with a 50lb recurved and the army were using a 303 rifle, at 20 meters.
Well we had the last laugh, with the bullet going in only half a bag and the arrow going through three bags and kept going out the back.
They weren't so sure about our toy bows then and we're amazed.... (lucky they didn't use solids)
The boy is a very effective and humane piece of hunting equipment for sure.
Chris Williams.
The penetration of the bow is better simply because of pressure = F/A. The tip of arrow has a much smaller area than a rounded bullet, the bullet tip gets even bigger as the mushroom shape increases whereas the arrow head stays the same, thus the arrow applies pressure to a very small area and the bullet applies pressure to an ever increasing area.
Exactly!
It could be interesting to repeat the same test with target a 30 or 50 meters for bow and rifles and see the results for shoots at the same distance. Thank you.
Bow's penetration would increase more and more till about 40 yards where it will then start decreasing.
ele pode errar...rs
@@johnayliff2464 Does the arrow go faster and faster after it leaves the bow, or what causes the increased penetration?
@@IdahoSewing absolutely not. Max velocity is as the nock releases from the string. Same as the bullet, the first millimeter outside of the barrel is its max velocity.
Arrows have more surface area, which equates to more drag. This reduces its ballistic coefficiency. Penetration would absolutely decrease, not increase.
@@johnayliff2464 Lol of course its not because arrow loses kinetic energy with increasing distance same as bullet.
Nice test, but in Germany we'd call it "Comparing apples with pears", because you changed the factor of the distance. An arrow from 10m delivers more energy than one over 20m, ofcourse.
Second: the cutting edges of the hunting tip open up the buckets without deforming - so you should have used FMJ bullets instead of deforming softpoints. 🙂
Third: The penetration might be higher in this case of testing scenario, but don't forget the disadvantages of an arrow shot - the animals can hear the loosing sound and start to move before the arrow hits their body. Especially on higher ranges above 30 or even 40m...
Fourth: Remember to the cavity effect a bullet produces because of it's expansion. The pressure wave rolling through the body is massive. With ballistic soap or gel you could have seen the outstanding difference.
Nevertheless: a nice video and an interesting topic. Thank you for your time and effort. 🙂
Assuming a broadside shot approximately through the center of the lungs, I am confident the arrow will put the animal down sooner than the bullet more often than not. This is based on my personal experience of many successful hunts using rifles and bows. It may seem hard to believe given the power of a large rifle, but I have seen it happen many times. I doubt the game he is hunting will jump the string.
Buenisima la prueba aunque me hubiera gustado ver al 375 con bala blindada solida Saludos!!!!
Yo pienso que hubiese atravesado mas
Great test Pedro and very interesting. The only factor that complicates such a comparison is the reality of the actual difference in the hunt, between the rifle and the bow...with the rifle you can be a reasonable (safer) distance from your target species than with the bow.
This implies very different hunting/tracking/bush skills...to safely get 10 to 20 meters from a buffalo with a bow takes hunting to a different level, as you would know.
You and your dad must enjoy the hunt👌🏻
As far as penetration goes, how much does distance actually affect the results?
We can easily use a ballistics calculator to determine the retained velocity of the bullet at extended distances. At 200 meters, this bullet would still retain about 80% of its velocity. I'm not sure about calculating retained velocity of the arrow. It would be nice to see the test repeated at 100 and 200 meters, but I would guess that the arrow would still go very deep. The challenge would be hitting the buckets at those distances with the arrow.
@@IdahoSewing It won't be wery drastic up to 100m at least, because arrows are made to fly with very low drag. They will retain their speed better than a bullet. I have seen people shoot at 75m and the arrow barely slowed down on its way.
One thing to keep in mind for penetration: A hunting bullet is made to disintegrate, to dump most of its energy into the target and break everything there, an arrow is made to cut through tissue. I bet the test would have a different outcome when using steel core ammo. It would probably still be close.
@@Snarlacc hard cast is used for large animals
@@kinanshmahell8065 Any bullet made for hunting rifles is made to dump its energy fast, be it hard cast or full copper bullets. They either mushroom, fragment or tumble, the result is the same, a big energy dump within the first 20cm/10" of the targets soft tissue and less penetration depth. This creates a big temporary wound cavity that disrupts organs an blood vessels quite far away from the bullets trajectory. Not even steel core penetrator rounds are immune to tumbling when hitting soft tissue, but they don't deform (as much) and thus lose less energy and can go much deeper. A .22lr round nose will penetrate as deep as a 9mm hollow point into gelatin, but the 9mm is much more destructive. Tissue destruction is wanted in hunting and self defense, penetration not so much. I am not saying penetration does not matter, but you normally want as much damage to occur in the vital organs of the intended target for it to go down for sure.
@@IdahoSewing The arrow here as a whole is 3 times heavier than the bullet used. This weight difference is very advantageous in penetration power. The tip of the arrow penetrates with a force of approximately 4 tons at a distance of 80 yards. This force will pierce any skin.
My guess is that the 375 goes through all 4 and the bow goes through 3 buckets. Either way, both weapons are fully capable of putting down a Cape. Great video man!
Bullets are designed to dump energy. Arrows are designed dto carry the energy.
I've seen a test like this before. The bow/arrow usually wins at close range. Why not test from the same distance? Shoot 20m for both? I still think the bow would do better but it would have been nice to see the comparison. Or for that matter, how about doing a similar test with only a bow and use different distances. I think most would like to see how much affect distances has on a bow.
Think it's going to be the same.. soft tip ammo splatters on impact as soon as it hit the target it gets bigger and stops. The arrow conserves it's shape. Unless you are going out of range effectines for the arrow compare to the bullet.
As an archer that regularly shoot a 70'ish lb compound with about 470'ish grain arrows, I'd be interested in seeing you put a few different arrow weights to this same test. I'd first he interested in the same arrow younhad setup, minus the 93 gr insert to see if that still give you enough penetration m, but gives you a bit extra speed for a bit flatter trajectory. It wpuld still be about a 570'ish gr arrow and heavier than your average hunting arrow. Then maybe a test with a 3rd arrow that is around the 450 gr weight. It would interesting to compare the velocity, energy, momentum and penetration of all three arrow builds assuming you could use the same broadhead for each one (to try and keep that variable the same), or maybe same broadhead but a lighter weight if they make them. Just an idea. Cool test. A lot of people forget that with the right arrowhead, midevil archers were able to pierce aknight's armor, and chainmail(i.e. the bodkin head). They were also flinging even heavier wooden arrows a couple hundred yards, or so!
@Travis Minton The testing for light vs heavy arrows is skewed to get the desired results you want. Simply put, in a uniform medium the arrow with the highest kinetic energy (KE) will out penetrate the arrow with a lower KE, all else being equal. This is due to the fact that KE is the ability of an object to do work. However, if you use an inconsistent medium with varying angles of impact and densities, the heavier arrow will generally do better. The problem with this is that there is no way to make this test consistent. Therefore, the results are inconsistent.
What I can say with 100% certainty is that an arrow with its center of gravity closer to the poin (FOC) will deflect less than an arrow that is balanced more near the middle. The deflection of an arrow will hemorrhage its potential energy, KE, making it penetrate much less.
A heavier arrow will have more momentum than a light arrow as well. Momentum is the ability for the arrow to stay on its course at its current velocity. It will be entering the medium at a reduced velocity compared to the lighter arrow. It sheds its velocity slower than the lighter arrow and will penetrate the same as the light arrow, providing it has the same KE. Once again, if you put angles and inconsistencies in the medium, the heavier arrow will divert less from its original track. Thus increasing its penetration in a straight line over the lighter weight arrow. Essentially, both arrows with the same KE will travel the same distance. One will just do it in a straighter line than the other, minus the drag on the shaft of the arrow if the diversion is enough to allow for that to occur.
I know this is a long-winded response, but it's the simplest way I can explain a very complex thing.
The arrow here as a whole is 3 times heavier than the bullet used. This weight difference is very advantageous in penetration power. The tip of the arrow penetrates with a force of approximately 4 tons at a distance of 80 yards. This force will pierce any skin.
Pedro, gracias por tus videos. Aprendo de armas, animales, su caza y costumbres, lugares preciosos de caza . . . todo con simpatía, camaradería y cultura. Es un placer. Ah! y clases gratuitas de inglés. Sigue así. Un saludo desde Daroca (Zaragoza)
Gracias Rafael!!!
The bow is important to be accurate and not to spook the animal. The temporary cavity that happens when a bullet goes through an animal does a lot of damage unless you are more than 200 yards or more out (depending on the cartridge). A metal jacket bullet penetrates better but also does a ton of damage with the temporary cavity it causes because it maintains more velocity as it travels through the mass it hits. Soft bullets make bigger exit wound if it makes it through. An animal takes time to go down with an arrow.
Yeah... Look at that bucket movement hit by the bullet...
Not really that much different depends on arrow placement
Broad-headed arrows, especially if they hit the internal organs, will kill the animal before it realizes what hit it. An arrow sheds much more blood than a bullet.
Folks, I think the point that Pedro is making is that a bow is very capable of making a clean kill on a buffalo. Yes variable this and that but I think he made his point.
Exactly! Thanks Daniel!
Cool
My fav is the bow
The most lethal if one understands the anatomy and the sequence of events with a heart or lung shot, massive drop in blood pressure, especially the heart. Like you told it how it is, the arrow is the most important thing and the head with least resistance. Almost all heads will penetrate but many present too much friction, the simple "broadhead" in my humble opinion is still the best unless one plans on hitting bine which is not the right way forward for a good hunt/dispatch.
Just found your channel and will subscribe. Fellow bowhunter from Australia.
Exactly as I expected. I didn't know how many buckets the bullet and arrow would go thru, but I knew the arrow would fare better. This test medium is very hard on the bullet & that too, a soft bullet at very high speed. A heavy hard solid at moderate speed will do much better, but end of the day, it doesn't really matter for the purpose of your demo. This gun-bullet combo is known to be adequate for buffalo and you have shown that your bow-arrow combo is in the same league from a terminal ballistics perspective; in fact better in terms of straight line penetration. Nicely done 👍
Finally some one does the power to show standard and even near semi high caliber hinting ammo vs a good compound bow
Love to see the .308 at the bow set to 60lb-65lb that's seems to be a standard hunting draw weight. Maybe even the north american minimum 44lbs dar and again .180 Remington. Or 5.56mm/.223
Penetration does not matter at all.
But the transfer of Kinetic energy is the important factor.
It has to be the rifle the winner.
Now I watch the film.
People nowadays don't believe in the technology that a hunting bow has, many still think it's something indigenous, my father when he saw my bow he laughed and told me if that would really kill a pig
comprou aonde? to querendo um, mas não sei como comprar aqui no br
@@leandrocosta4245 go to Google and type buy a bow you will find
Fun test, and educational! Glad you did it! Thanks!
It is not clear how heavy a 77-pound compound bow is to be drawn for those who haven't tried a compound bow before. I believe it's fair to say, It is heavy enough to prevent you to shoot many arrows on a training day as an experienced bow shooter. And as an unexperienced bow shooter, there's no way you even can draw it back once 🙂
Nice, and now lets try both weapons on 300 yards :D
An arrow shot with traditional Turkish horn bows can pierce plate armor at a distance of 300 meters.With modern roller springs it can be shot at long distances and if you can hit it it will pierce lethally.If you're a Serb or Croatian, you might like a sniper rifle better. That doesn't mean you're smarter or more knowledgeable.
@@altugafat9543 why Turkish soldiers switched to muskets?
@@miroslav_zink4312 The answer is simple; it takes 12 years to make bows and arrows, there is a difficult construction process that requires mastery. Training an archer is a life-long job. However, making a rifle is easy, and using a rifle is also easy. If archers who lived in the 4th century had lived in the 19th century The outcome of the wars would have been different.Does this result show that using a bow and arrow is worse than using a rifle. Until the second half of the 19th century, the arrow's rate of fire, range and effect were more than rifles.
Thats friggin amazing Pedro, I have an even higher respect for the penetration capabilities from these new bows, great test, thx!!
I have shot a fair number of buffalo. In each case the bullet was found on the other side just under the skin on a broadside shot. Now, in just about every case the bullet went through a rib (all were double lung shots). I wonder how an arrow would handle hitting a rib first, whether it would deflect or slow down etc.. In fairness I was using a .500 NE double rifle not a .375.
Both are very effective ! they just go about it in a different way .
Brawo Pedro, ein super guter test das der Coumpaund Bogen stärker ist.Lg Franco
Thanks for watching!
This experiment was evident before doing it.
The projectile has a hydrostatic effect that the arrow will never have, this effect is accentuated if you do it with a soft point projectile as is the case.
If you're looking for penetration, do it with a monolithic tip.
As you say, the arrow is very different from the bullet. I would guess that with a non-expanding bullet, the H&H would be similar to the arrow?
The arrow has tremendous sectional density, because it is smaller frontal area than the bullet, and twice as heavy. Also, it is sharp.
The arrow's weakness is its side-friction. Also, it creates very little "splash," which gives stopping-power.
I agree with your choice to avoid extreme over-penetration. This reduces danger to the non-targeted animals, and also insures that the bullet's energy is deposited in the target. Considering that you are depositing around 4,500 ft. lbs. of energy, this should have an effect if placed correctly.
As always, anyone can miss anything, but we wish you good success!
I had it exactly the other way round. 1.5 buckets for the broadhead and 2 buckets for the bullet. Incredible penetration from the arrow. The only thing I would say is that with the drop off of performance of the arrow in flight, over distance, is 10m the distance you will be taking the buffalo at or will it be longer? If it's longer, my guess the bullets will eventually show better performance than the arrow, and that could easily be from 30m.
Your opint is well made, though. In the right hands, at the right range, bow hunting is incredibly effective and lethal.
An enjoyable test to watch, thanks!
Nice test hunted pigs with bow out to 48 + metres pig dead after run 5m no sign of arrow muzzy 125 grain arrows FMJ 6mm 65 pound bow 26 inch length
Im so happy ive come across your channel, the first i saw was your adventure in Scotland, now im hooked. From someone who's never hunted or know anyones that hunts, i find it so interesting and natural. As for this test i cant wait to see, i would guess the bullet would be best. But lets see
Welcome! Thanks for watching!!!
I liked this test, but. There is a video out there showing the difference in penetration of arrows vs bullets in sand that says this test is skewed to favor the bow. Bullets won't penetrate as far into sand as an arrow. Todds Workshop did the arrow side and I believe Demolition Ranch did the bullet side of the test. That being said, I am a bowhunter too. Tho I only hunt small game with a traditional style bow. And usually use blunts on birds and othe small game. Good luck with your hunt! Jorge Sprave demonstrated some broadheads designed for African big game that some doctor came up with that I think you should try out.
Hi Pedro, great video. With bows you get expandable broadheads which will not have the same penetration as fixed broadheads. With the rifle .375 h&h there would be a different penetration depending if you use monolithic solids or soft nose which you used. Try the penetration test with the same arrow and broadhead but use a monolithic solid in the rifle.
Good job! Good test, good music and video shooting. Good luck hunting now!
Thanks for watching!
Do the same distance with bow and rifle and use solids on the .375 and check results
I would've used a solid bullet in the 375..... the DGX is designed to exand and dump energy, this ultimately reduces penetration.
Still a cery cool test
I'm going with the bow on this one..
I like to shoot with the rifle ,and the test was not taken on the same distance, i think the result won't be the same.
Thank you for this beautiful video.
Lo importante es el poder de parada o detención del animal al momento del impacto. Es claro que se puede cazar cualquier animal con un arco, pero puedes detener una carga (ataque) de un animal peligroso (bufalo) con un arco? NO
La penetración de las flechas es un asunto impresionante, pero no para cacería. Desde mi punto de vista debemos abatir el animal con el menor sufrimiento para él.
En Africa nunca te dejan cazar un animal peligroso con arco si no van contigo de apoyo uno o varios rifles por decir poco.
Buen video.
Saludos
Cool test but we know that slower, heavier is better penetration in general. Faster and lighter equals more energy on target. You would rather that arrow slip through your gut than the bullet liquifying your organs. I like that this is sand and not the same old water jugs or gel blocks. Nice to see something different.
Of course both weapons are extremely capable in expert Hands thank-you 😊
When I take up bow hunting I be using cold steel cheapshot bone saw & a bow recurve 47lb.
Put both at 50m and use a solid ( mono metal 300gr bullet) and then share the results.
Arrow win.
Wrote before test.
Impresionante Pedro .....gracias por la comparativa
Genial vídeo Pedro.!!! Muy ilustrativo y le has conseguido dar un dinamismo que lo hace muy atractivo visualmente hablando.
Sería interesante ver penetraciones de otros tipos de flechas y con otras potencias de arco.
Gran trabajo!!!!
😮WOW! 😃👌👍Bow mashine! 😉
Para mí ha quedado clarísimo,muy buena demostración
Hola Pedro.
Aunque te sigo desde hace mucho tiempo en los dos canales, creo que nunca me he decidido a comentarte .
Pero en este caso tengo que decirte, que estoy y no estoy de acuerdo contigo, y ya te comento de antemano que no soy arquero. Me explico:
Creo que para la caza es tan importante el poder de parada como la penetración , pero en este caso quitas mas importante sea la cavitacion que produce la fuerza de una bala en un animal como el que cuenta , ello es decisivo para que no te de un buen susto. Si me pongo a clavar un clavo y me doy en el dedo con el martillo , me reventare el dedo , los huesos y lo que pille dependiendo de la fuerza del impacto, puedo hasta perder el dedo, pero si emcambio se me desliza el clavo y me lo traspasa, tendre el daño que la hemorragia pueda producirme. Se que el sangrado que produce una flecha en el interior tocando órganos principales, hace que el celebró del animal termine colapsando, pero eso tiene un tiempo y contra mas fortaleza tiene un animal, mayor también su capacidad de aguante .
Se que tanto el arco como el rifle lo pueden matar, pero en piezas tan grandes, con tanta fortaleza y tan peligrosas, soy más de la opinión de tu padre.
El año pasado fue una cacería magistral y este estare encantado como siempre, de ver el estupendo trabajo que siempre nos traes, confió que con tu experiencia logres una bonita pieza y una excelente caceria, pero aparte de la suerte que puedas tener, ten mucho cuidado.
Un saludo.
José Manuel
Haha thats amazing, what a shot
Air rifles can achieve FPE and velocity higher then compound bows using broadhead arrows too.
That’s why I use heavier arrows for hunting with a solid two blade broadheads
Some of the newest high end crossbows are doing 500+ fps. It’s crazy
Hey man shoot different things to show a bows penetrative power , I'm an olympian archer and people really don't understand how serious a bow is .
Before i continue watching: i bet the arrow does more damage. Its slower, but more heavy and much bigger than the bullet. Greetz from Austria 🇦🇹
Loved this video!
I saw a video where the latest model of Barnett crossbow could pierce a vest anti bullet.
The Bullet is constructed to transfer most of it's Energy without! penetrating too much, you want to damage the vitals and you want the impact shock, the momentum of the bullet.
The Arrow is exact the opposite. It's constructed to penetrate as deep as possible, because you want it to cut as much flesh and blood vessels as possible. Because you never have an arrow with such an impact shock like a bullet and the killing effect is the massive blood loss. Sometimes an Animal, hit by an Arrow, don't flee but stand still and you are afraid you missed, but you see the massive blood loss. But some seconds later it slowly goes down and thats it. It seems that the arrow not even have the slightest impact shock. And it also seems, that is it not extremely painful.
So I think it's stupid to compare the penetrating power of these both weapons, because they are build to have very different effects.
Hay queda eso. me encanta como gestionas estos temas una pasada de comunicador
350 grain .375 is a good penetrator, but if you want cutting in the bullet, look to Impala SA made ones as they are made for that .
Excellent!
Howard Hill took down elephants with an American flat bow and wooden arrows. OK, he was an exceptional man but it does show the power of an arrow.
But a bullet spreds on impact, not the arrow. But yeah very pertinent and cool video! 👌🎯👍
Would like to see comparison with a standard weight hunting arrow 300 spine with 125gn broad head please
Amazing video man !
Sounds like a fun trip. What broadhead is that? That's a solid setup with that bow and the VAP SS arrow, but if I were going after buffalo with my bow I'd be looking at a monolithic broadhead made of tool-steel, not a two piece with an aluminum ferrule.
Yes you will shoot the buffalo with the arrow. But the PH will finish it of with a gun. I hope it is not the case for you and you finish it with the bow. Enjoy the hunt.
Good video but it would be fair if you try both from same distance and that would show justification. Try next time.
Muy interesante el video, pero si lo realmente lo probado era penetracion exclusivamenehubiera estado bien probar con balas FMJ en el 375 HH y en ell 308 win. Un saludo.
Super intéressant, merci Pedro !
Bow forever ;)
Super interesting test
I love this kind of experiments
Que bueno Pedro, me ha encantado la prueba y la explicación. Fantástico, haz más vídeos como este son muy didácticos!!
77 libras, tu si que eres un búfalo! Impresionante la penetración de la flecha y yo creo que sin pluma hubiera pasado el tercer balde. Deseando ver el vídeo de Uganda! Saludos
My favorite youtuber posting again 🎉 how are you?
You shoot a buffalo at 10m ? I wanna see that too !
Seguramente tenga más penetración la flecha, otra cosa es el poder de parada de la bala. Un saludo Pedro.
The arrow will win😊
👌👌👌👌💪💪💪💪 perfect bow
The bullet dumps its energy on contact, the arrow keeps most of it
Tasmania needs to see this. Give the government a reality check
Excellent technical comparison...But real flesh temperament and adrenaline is the great equalizer.
A man living in Phalaborwa, a mining town bordering the Kruger National Park, shot and killed a Buffalo bull in his garden using a .22 rimfire...so it's possible under ideal conditions etc etc.
However, as Peter Hathaway Capstick so eloquently wrote " Cape Buffalo don't read the ballistics charts"
In my 46 years of managing/ culling/ and persuit of wounded dangerous thick skinned game, may I offer a little advice, which you can use or lose ...Don't play with bows and arrows and small calibre weapons when dealing with Africa's thick skinned game. Show them the respect they deserve and despatch them humanely with the best tools at your disposal. For every Buffalo killed with an arrow, many more run off wounded only to be despatched days later with a rifle. In Robert Ruark's words ( not mine) " Use Enough Gun"
665 grain arrow and 77 lbs Bow is already a massive Combination. Not many people can handle a 77 lbs bow. Btw. Arrows better get through sand than bullets
Too many Variables for a test like this. An arrow with a broadhead is designed to slice with the least ammount of resistance where as a bullet is desgined to dump as much energy into an animals cavity as possible (hydrostatic shock). Different bullet compounds/weights along with different broadhead cutting diameters and weights would all change the results drastically.
All you learned was the differences of arrow vs rifle penetration on sandy dirt.
Just like the Winchester designers of the original SilverTip found out when they used duct seal as a test material, they ended up designing a projectile that worked really well in duct sealant, but sucked in flesh.
It would be nice to compare all of that to a genesis bow and arrow.... 20lbs
interesting!!! the arrow barely moves the buckets while the bullets push the first bucket. can we try this with a normal tip arrow?
great test
eu sei da penetração melhor do arco,mas temos mais aspectos a serem considerados,a precisão,afinal duvido fazer grupos com o arco igual a do rifle a 40 metros por exemplo,segundo,a capacidade de transmitir energia,que alias é mais importante em termos de segurança que a perfuração e finalmente o mais importante,a morte limpa e justa ao animal,a quanitade de tiros de arco com morte imediata é minma versus o rifle...abs
Try ballistic gel instead of sand.
Great test. Question … I wonder if a solid bullet would perform differently ? The 300 grain bullet is designed to mushroom and stay inside the animal. A Broadhead isn’t designed to mushroom.
Good luck !
Excellent tests Pedro. For shooting ( I'm not a bowhunter ) a heavy for calibre projectile, with good SD and bonded, or core locked construction, travelling at Moderate speed, will give the best penetration. In my experience. I think the test medium is way too hard and could be replaced with something more akin to real flesh.
In buffalo hunting, remember that the ribs overlap, so it may be necessary to penetrate two ribs in order to reach the lungs?
Use a solid brass insted of a soft point and see the difference
Por poco y te llevas la ceja 😊 con e rifle de tu Padre. Por cierto muy bonito rifle que tiene tu padre. Me gusto la prueba que hiciste entre la flecha y el rifle. Fue excelente video. Muy buena información.
Saludos desde Houston, TX U.S.A
Before even watching it, I am calling the arrow gets better penetration through the sand!?!?
Called it!
Subbed
Súper test! Fantástico Pit!
2.5 buckets for the soft point 375
3.5 buckets for the arrow
That sand has some serious stopping power, how wrong was I. That's why they use sand bags to stop bullets I suppose.
Great demo, thank you.
Hace mucho cuando compre un arco recurvo mire un video antiguo en blanco y negro del ejercito de Estados Unidos probaron arcos vs pistolas y fusiles en latas con tierra y el arco era el unico que logro traspasar todo.Por eso usan en guerras armas como arcos y ballestas en operaciones en la junglas.
Es física del proyectil no es el arco en sino la energía cinética añadida por el vástago de la flecha al impacto
Experimento super interesante, pero con la punta que le has puesto a la flecha vas a necesitar una pluma más alta que las blazzer, que funcionan muy bien, pero estabilizan mejor unas plumas más largas y altas, con helicoidal, para conseguir estabilizar la flecha y que sea bien precisa. Aún así, si te funciona bien con las blazzer pues palante, pero planteatelo porque con el drag que va a generar esa punta, la precisión puede verse comprometida con ciertas plumas.
Yeah it is know that arrows goes throught sand more than bullet.
But bufallos are not made of sand x)
As an archer myself, I know damn well what's gonna happen.
You should test with a hard, non-expanding bullet.