IS IT RIGHT TO BREED FANCY GOLDFISH? (why I no longer have goldfish)
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2021
- In 2016 I was asked by a viewer if I thought pearlscales and bubble eyes were too genetically modified. At the time I said no, I didn't think they were. But as you'll see in this week's video, my opinions on that have changed a lot after being deeply immersed in the goldfish hobby for 10+ years- seeing how they are bred, breeding them myself, learning about certain problematic grooming practices, and experiencing first-hand the heartbreaking health issues they often have.
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I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic too, so let me know what you think in the comments.
Let's keep the conversation respectful please. 🙏 And don't forget to subscribe because I post new videos every Thursday! 😉
What about ryukin
I think the lack of protruding features (like telescopic eyes, bubble eyes, or a wen) helps them a lot, but the extreme body shape is not good for them. They're also one of the older varieties of goldfish, so perhaps a little less inbred. Although we just keep taking their body shape to greater and greater extremes, so swim bladder issues will still be common among ryukin.
I’m very sorry you had to witness that terrible,
Horrible, haunting monstrosity of fish abuse. Also does that mean I’m mean because my oranda and ryukin started breeding
I'm not here to judge anyone for what they choose to do. Just sharing my thoughts and the knowledge I have and you can decide for yourself.
Ok I just wanted to know. And do my goldfish have swim bladder if there floating on top
Its hard the come to terms with something that has defined your life as something you no longer agree with. Proud of you. This has had to be hard for you.
Big respect for making this video, things only change when people are brave and speak up. Humans have a habit of taking things too far before backtracking. Let's hope goldfish are bred with health in mind in the future!
Its you! Carl and Alex are gorgoues great homies
@@CocoKoi321 thank you :)
God bless you and God bless anyone reading this! Hope you have an awesome day! Seek him while you can! Jesus is the way and the only way and he is returning soon! Whenever you think you aren't loved... Remember the ultimate sacrifice was for love! ENDING YOUR LIFE IS NEVER THE ANSWER!
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 KJV
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Seek God today before it's too late! Today could be your last day on earth!
Have a blessed day!
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Dios te bendiga y Dios bendiga a Todos los que estan leyendo esto! Deseo que tengan un hermoso dia! Buscad a Dios mientras pueda ser hallado! Jesus es el camino y el unico camino y regresa pronto! Recuerda cuando te sientas que no eres amado... el mayor sacrificio se hizo por amor! EL SUICIDIO NUNCA ES LA RESPUESTA!
Porque de tal manera amó Dios al mundo, que ha dado a su Hijo unigénito, para que todo aquel que en él cree, no se pierda, mas tenga vida eterna.
S. Juan 3:16 RVR1960
La paga del pecado es muerte (infierno) pero Cristo pagó nuestra deuda en la cruz para nuestra salvacion! Debemos volvernos a Dios y apartarnos de nuestros caminos pecaminosos, confesar que Jesús es el Señor y creer con nuestro corazón que fue resucitado de entre los muertos por Dios, y debemos de ser bautizados en el nombre del Padre, del Hijo y del Espíritu Santo y vivir por Su palabra y mandamientos! Confia que Dios ayudara con el resto!
Busca a Dios, antes de que sea muy tarde! Hoy podria ser tu ultimo dia en la tierra!
Que tengas un hermoso dia!
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Fancy goldfish are the Pugs of the fish world :(
But if pugs were skinned or kept in tiny cages. 😢
@@kwalenz Pugs, Frenchies and Bulldogs routinely need their nostrils cut open surgically just to breathe. They need the roll of skin over their nose and tail removed because the folds stay permanently damp, which harbors bacteria or yeast.
@@AutumnalAussies don't forget the VERY shallow eye sockets of pugs and even Boston terrier's at times for sure leaves their eyes unprotected and at a higher risk for injury as well. And pugs are prone to their eyes pooping out of socket just from sneezing. Sure it doesn't happen to them all but it happens enough that on most pug forums it's seen as a 'normal' pug thing when their eyes poop out of their sockets. Not to mention the spinal issues of pugs and French Bulldogs as well to due to breeding them for such short compact bodies
@@AutumnalAussies and their trachea and soft palette often needs surgery as well to as many brachial breed are prone to Laryngeal collapse, Hypoplastic Trachea on top of all the issues coming from BOAS issues that are directly caused by breeding for an extremely flat face. Hydrocephalus is also happening more and more and more in pugs and frenchies to and imo that's also due to the extreme skull and facial features humans bred for
@@SnugB83 let's not forget the elbow dysplasia, luxating patella, and excruciatingly painful chiari malformation and syringomyelia where the brain is too big for their skull. Estimates of upwards to 95% of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels have CM and over 50% have SM.
Now open the can of worms with Bettas: longfins, double tails, kois, dumboears, and the list goes ON AND ON. Thank you for your honesty ❤️ you learn as the years go on what mutations have done to our pets. I didn't learn this about my own Bettas until I bred them myself over the years. I've watched 4yr old males literally suffer because their fins are too large for their bone structure to support so they constantly break. Yes BREAK. It's the sad truth of our pets but glad someone spoke up on it.
I'm not super knowledgeable on fish, why are the breeds you listed problematic?
I agree. I don't think I will be getting any long fin Bettas anymore. But I'm curious about what's bad about kois? Is there an issue with them if they're koi plakats?
So the short answer for longfin fish is imagine swimming around a in a big wedding dress. The older you get, the harder it is for you to carry that wedding dress. Bettas are originally shortfin fish with streamline bodies that actually aren't that appealing to most keepers. Their bone structure was never considered when we bred heavier and heavier fins on them. This is why males have issues as they age and also why I didn't keep longfin males in large tanks.
Kois are actually new to me for breeding but I've had 4 to 5 spawns last year. The one thing I noticed was the "yellow" koi doesn't breed true. I dug for the answer to this and it actually made sense after my spawns...the grandfather (yellow Betta) has to be bred to his granddaughters(black koi) to make true yellow koi. Not always the case but the percentage of true yellow koi goes up this way. I ended up with a lot and I mean A LOT of deformities to make a true yellow koi line. I stopped at the 3rd generation spawn. The cellophane fish coming from the yellow line ended up with perfect body structure but they seemed to have swim bladder issues. Next deformities were crocked jaws and what I would call depth perception issues. Mind you the answer to this was coming from more experienced breeders. Sibling and relative spawning is a true thing in breeding and exists in many different types of fish, not just Bettas and Goldfish.
Also look up samurai Bettas. They're known for going blind and breeders know this.
And this isn't just my opinion, this what I experience first hand. It's a sad truth and I love breeding and keeping Bettas but I've taken a step back from it so I can gain more knowledge on it.
@@morrigan4490 Double tail bettas can have issues from compressed spines. Many bettas are now bred to have fins so large they can't swim well (some resort to self-mutilation and bite their fins). Dragonscale and similar bettas can have the dragonscales grow right over their eyes, blinding them. I've had issues with the fancy ones beyond the standard veiltail and crowntail bettas. My "opal" betta had vision problems and could barely find his food. My elephant ear couldn't swim that great and died of unknown causes just a few months after I got him. They also seem to have weaker immune systems. All due to inbreeding.
Usually when people talk about breeding problems they tend to mention dogs like pugs, not enough people talk about the fish part of the dark side of breeding
I live in Germany where many goldfish breeds like "bubble eyes" are not even sold because it's so cruel.
However we do have many other breeds that have round bodys, big eyes and long fins. As a child I always asked my dad to get some of those "cuter, prettier" goldfish instead of the shubunkins and sarassa goldfish he chose for our pond.
He pointed out how weak and sickly these overbred fish looked compared to the hardy "normal" goldfish and told me those would die very easily or tend to get sick (he's been keeping all sorts of fish for a very long time and knows a lot about the hobby)
Now I am 21years old and very thankful about him not letting me get any of these fish and teaching me about the cruel practises of those breeders because it really just is not worth it! 🤔
Thank you for speaking up about it even though you have been in the hobby yourself, I bet it was pretty hard to admit to yourself and everyone online! 😊
ah yes germany,the land of sensitive snowflakes
@@humanbean392 yes. we need more and more sensitives and highly intellegent people rather than stupids who call others "snowflake" bcs of their immaturity and lack of mannerism.
@@humanbean392 just wondering, what does not supporting animal cruelty have to do with being a "sensitive snowflake" ? 😂 I think not allowing people to keep fish in tiny bowls and banning the sale of sick fish breeds is a sign of intelligence 🙂
@@jensenbensen8260 If you've ever owned a Pet of any kind ever you have taken part in animal cruelty. Birds, dogs, cats and fish all have the same genetic issues when domesticated.
@@saltybulldog3241 that's a bold claim to make without providing any sources lol
I won't keep fancy goldfish, for that reason. Honestly, I won't keep ballon, long fin, painted, or dwarf versions of any species. But the common goldfish are acceptable. They just grow much larger!
I had goldfish time ago and despite following all the recommendations about the proper care about them like.orandss ranches and rukins also I gave them plenty of space with water changes every week with good filtration and good food like home made gel food I just couldn't keep the healthy they were fine for one month and then started to develop swimming bladder issues ending in dropsy .. I spent lot of money in medications .. even medicated food and also take one to the vet one time but he doesn't survive .. I just switch to bettas .. also I prefer goldfish commons they are pretty also and have more health bodies
What about shubunkin, they are a cross between comet and a calico?
@@cheapskateaquatics7103Long fin versions of Goldfish, guppies, bettas, plecos, barbs, and so on, all seem to struggle compared to their natural fin tankmates. Especially if you use high gph filtration.
I felt this was a well thought out and objective analysis of goldfish ethics. I got my first goldfish a few months ago (a ranchu I named Tater,) and despite my years of experience with tropical aquarium fish, the first ranchu I brought home died within 12 hours! It was heartbreaking. I totally understand what you mean when you talk about their health issues. I was surprised to hear about some of the farming techniques too; the scales thing was very tough to watch/hear about but as you said, I think its important that people know about it. Thank you!
It really is so sad how that happens so often, I'm sorry you had that experience Melissa. :(
Probably cause you had a small tank or uncycled tank
My rancus are the hardiest beasts ever I got from Goldfish Island too
@@CocoKoi321 lol no. I have plenty of experience and know how to cycle a tank properly. After contacting an aquatic vet, I found out that they were simply very low quality and highly inbred. I simply didn't know what a "normal" ranchu looked like, and fell for an unethical fish shop owner who asserted they were imported from Thailand!
@@limelightaquatics where did you get them from?
The scrapping and throwing unwanted fish onto the road to suffocate literally made my heart hurt. I didn’t think I would change my mind THIS much after this video. I have two goldfish one pearscale and one ranchu and they are the cutest together🥺 they share food and play around I can’t imagine if anything bad would happen to them. In fact I loved them so much I wanted to get more in a bigger tank but after seeing this I guess I’ll just have to share my love with these two only and make sure they have the best life.
@Karen Sperling I REALLY wanna avoid swim bladder problems what should I do?
@@rosebon9875 I once heard that feeding smashed peas can help prevent issues like that but I am no expert.
@@user7516 I feed them that once a week mixed in my home made gel food
Nobody would throw em in the road is the thing lol
If at some point I had to cull I would use clove oil and put them to sleep (I have not bred fish tho)
I think that, just like dogs, we can go back. There's some pretty horrendous stuff that is being done, like the scraping of scales and confining their movements, that can be stopped immediatly (but we all know won't unfortuntly) and other things like bug eyed fish or balloon fish that can be bred back down to a reasonable amount. Personally for me I've never enjoyed the rare breed goldfish, I've always loved the commons and regular fancies, and try to avoid fish that have been modified to their detriment in general, like balloon mollies.
Same here . Thanks, You saved me the effort of writing my own comment 💖.
Why breed them back when the bred back version already exists? It's a normal common goldfish.
As longest people keep buying them, they’re not stopping anytime soon.
Unfortunately there are some dogs we can't breed back. The English Bulldog needs to stop being bred and the breed needs to die out. And they *will* die out, because they can't even breed on their own. It's sad but it's humanity's fault and needs to stop.
English bulldogs and french bulldogs are mostly bred via c-section. We can't go back...seeing more of these dogs now than before especially of how "cute" they are. What about ear cropping and tail docking? This is basically the same thing as the scale scraping of the fish.
I love goldfish, they are lovable and intelligent and long lived. I cried so hard because i know what u said is true. I only bought unwanted goldfish so they could live out their years with a loving owner. I do everything for my goldfish. They are absolutely the most abused and mistreated of all the animal kingdom. We goldfish lovers know the challenges they face and we want whats best for them, and we all know it is not death. I will love and care for all my fish to their end as best i can and i know you did it too. Jenny u were mine and my husbands obsession because you were the only youtuber who shared a deep passion for goldfish when the rest of the world scoffed at them as bait or feed or garbage. All life deserves a chance. I wont buy any fish from abusive breeders. Vote with your dollars. But if something is living and wants to live I'll care for it and give it the best i can always. Thank u for ur thorough analysis and care and videos that helps us make goldfish lives better
I will admit, getting into the hobby I had alot of quiet concerns about how the anatomy of the fish seemed so unnatural and almost counterproductive to evolution. I thought some mutations were enlarged by breeding sure, but i had no clue it was to such a huge extent. Thank you for your informative video on the topic and bringing this to people's attention.
Who cares.
@@Riley095 lookout guys we've got a badass over here🤷♀️
@@KittyKyomi proudly.
@@Riley095 oof can't really read sarcasm can ya hun?
@@KittyKyomi ha your just not funny.
This video is brilliant, and needed to be said. I too learned the hard way. Sadly, the healthiest of the babies are culled due to not having the much desired short egg shape. I bred my last batch as well. I love them but its just not right! Seeing so many babies in development get swim disorders is depressing!
Ran into this again with Holland lop rabbits. For some reason in show standards they decided they want them shorter, than are now questioning the multiple hook spine issue popping up in the breed.
When you shorten any animal ...the spine has to go somewhere so it curves! Ppl are just never satisfied. And it needs to be said! Good on you girl for speaking up!
Humanity greed is never enough :/ the common goldfish already is so beautiful...
I wish rescuing fish was more commonly talked about, I have a common goldfish I rescued from someone who had him in an absolutely filthy 1 gallon tank, now he's living in a nice 36 gallon aquarium. I don't care for most goldfish breeders, but by finding someone who wanted to get rid of their fish I got a fish I wanted and saved him from an early death. Given how often fish are mistreated and people want to get rid of them, I think experienced keepers should rescue a lot more often then they do right now.
I really appreciate this video when I was a teen I was obsessed with fancy gold fish and then the more I looked into them and keeping them the more I realized that I couldn't support a hobby that focused on producing unhealthy animals this also goes for certain dog breeds and colors (lavender, merele, and blues are often caused by inbreeding and can have serious complications with them in certain breeds but not all breeds) and certain reptiles like ball pythons with the spider genes it makes me very sad that people will just put their aesthetics before the health of these animals
omg the scraping of the scales really shocked me! Thank you for exposing them! And yea i agree, i had comets, telescopes and ryukins before and i definitely noticed the egg bodied ones got sick more often snd didnt live as long. Its just really sad
Yes, I also have decided not to buy fancy goldfish ever again. I also will not buy dog breeds that suffer breathing problems from engineered breeding. Ugh. It was a hard lesson to learn. 💔
It’s refreshing to see young people like you with so much compasión and empathy. It gives me hope for the future.
The vibes of the trailer for this has the vibe of a unsolved crime show or something like that. 😏
I was thinking that Scientology show 🤣
regarding if fish feel pain or not, I think anybody who has gotten a "talking" variety of catfish stuck in a fish net can confirm they do - I once got their whisker stuck in a fish net when trying to move him and oh my god, the screams he made every time i would tug around the stuck part.
Thank you for making this video, with all animals in the pet trade I think once you look at many breeding practises it really opens your eyes to how much humans harm animals for our own selfish enjoyment
It’s very difficult to look back and see the reality of things. Thank you so much for speaking up honestly about your experience and what you’ve witnessed. It’s so important to shine a light on the darker side of things so we can move forward as a community with safe and respectable practices. You’ve been through so much, grown so much and I’m so happy to see you back 🤍🖤
I first started to kept fish because of you, you inspired me a lot back then, I begun with fancy goldfish... I went through the same struggles you described and that led to a lot of research and reading, things that I should had been done way before I got them... I still love goldfish but I can't keep then anymore my heart is broken for them, you still keep inspiring me now with you new content, I guess it was a journey for everyone
I started with common goldfish, however, it didn't last long due to their health issues most of the time so I shifted to guppies, bettas, swordtails, and mollies. My new addition recently were honey gouramis. They're so easy to take care of and looking very fancy like goldfish.
My original 2 goldfish which I got in 1981 had no problems and lived for 11 years.
I've had nothing but problems with goldfish I bought in the 2000's .
I stick with mollies and guppies these days.
I LOVE honey gourami's! Super friendly, super pretty and super hardy. Mine's the star of my tropical community tank
I'm happy you have such beautiful fish. I just want to say I have an aquarium with normal goldfish and they are not prone to any health issues at all.
@@lynn69jackson I was thinking about getting some mollies what temperature does the water have to be kept at for them I have not had a fish for 7 years
It's clear to those of us who "know" you (as much as you can as a subscriber), that you have always cared to the utmost degree about the health and wellbeing of your fish. I appreciate you speaking up about problematic industry practices so much. Thanks as well for demonstrating that it's okay to change your mind. We're all just people learning and growing
Thank you Emily ❤ The wellbeing of the pets I have has always been the driving force behind my channel and I'm glad you can see that.
I think part of it to consider is the/your intention, when you buy these fish it's like you buy them to watch them suffer, you get them and try to give them the best life you can and admire them for there look,
Selective breeding is one thing (humans have been doing it forever to everything plants and animals)
But I have to draw the line at physically modifying the fish via mutilation in some way like you alluded to,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Marc 😊
I do acknowledge that there is a big problem with the ethics and cruelty of some breeders, and looked at the same way we now look at animal farming (chicken, cows, egg and so on)
Agreed, to hear about any farm practicing mutilation on this level is... just horrifying. And to cull by just ... dumping them I can't honestly believe they haven't been reported once... and if they haven't they certainly need to be.
Thank you for that video. I also have channel about goldfish and I put a lot of pressure to talk about etics and modifications. Especially recently I see that some reputable breeders tend to exaggerate some of characteristics, it is very visible with ryukins for example. I think every goldfish owner should be informed about those practices and also about own goldfish limitations to take best possible care of their pet.
Exactly the same is happening in the reef keeping hobby now with clownfish...I personally will not encourage the practice by supporting it with a purchase...they are perfect as they are leave them be
Dont know exactly but i think its just a pattern/morph change similer to snakes but i can see it being bad if some morphs are like the spider gene but i do definitely see your point
I'm so happy you're back to posting on youtube Jenny. I had missed you so much. You have no idea how much your videos brighten my day!
Thanks Jenny. Couldn't put it better. I wish more humans behaved more like humans.
More power to you.
Fishkeeping is a very mismanaged practice in general. A lot of people don't even consider them as living beings, pets with needs or creating a habitat that makes them happy. It's hard to tell people because they are so rigid with the things they learned from unethical fish sellers.
Buy common goldfish, they are like 10 cents to a dollar, still have their carp features, are good swimmers, and can live up to 20 years. Just get a big enough aquarium because they will grow, and make sure to medicate them as they can have illnesses related to how they are shipped.
I just love koi fish
They shouldn't be in an aquarium at all. They get massive.
Jenny thanks for this video I started watching your vids a while ago and when you stopped posting I got concerned. You are a great content creator. Thank you for using your voice in a loving way to show goldfish ethics and the community how things can be done with more love for these beautiful creatures
Next month is the 20th anniversary of my start as a goldfish mom. In that time I've had, loved, and lost so many gorgeous, sweet, wonderful fish. (My first two are in my profile, icon. R.I.P. Jackie and Sammy.) The only types I've kept have been fantails, ryukins, and a few orandas that I thought were fantails when I bought them but later grew wens. Fantails are by far my first choice, but I end up with ryukins sometimes just because I cannot find a fantail that's not a tiny baby. I've tried to stick with the less extremely-modified breeds precisely because of the problems you talk about in the video. My longest-lived fish hit the eight-year mark, but so many more have lived one to two years before developing problems. It's heartbreaking.
For the first few years I spent a ton of money on medicines before I realized the vast majority of the time there's absolutely nothing you can do to save the fish. I eventually worked up the courage to euthanize and spare my babies unnecessary suffering when I saw their quality of life had degraded to that point. I never would have thought I'd be capable of that, and the smell of clove oil haunts me, but it's a necessary thing more often than it should be.
I have two tanks: one for the full-grown fish, and a slightly smaller (but still more than adequate) one to grow up (store-bought) babies in. By the time the little ones are grown up, there's always a vacancy in the other tank because inevitably something will have happened to one of the older fish. I have to do this because it's nearly impossible to find fantails, or even ryukins, of a decent enough size to cohabitate with the "widowed" fish who needs a new tank mate. I scour the internet, and all I find for sale are ranchus, bubble eyes, pearl scales, telescope eyes, and orandas with such extreme wens the fish can hardly see.
Goldfish are such sweet, cute, friendly, clever, funny, adorable creatures, and I love them very much. So far the daily joy they bring outweighs the inevitable heartbreak that comes at the end of their lives, but I absolutely get where you're coming from, and I'd be lying if I said I never thought about taking a break from the hobby after a particularly bad streak of luck. There has to be a better way to balance the aesthetics people want and the quality of life the fish deserve.
I used to want a butterfly telescope goldfish or a fan tailed because they looked cute, but then I realised that even though they may be cute they aren’t as healthy. I currently own a commit tail goldfish and I’ve had her for nearly 7 years, and she’s great and very beautiful (personally I think she could win a prize 😂) so I would probably only stick with owning commit tail or just normal goldfish! Great, informative video.
I'm happy you decided to make this video. I have made the same experience with betta fish. I'm kind of a niche channel for bettas in Germany and I've made a similar video in the past about them. I also decided to turn away from them due to the breeding.
It's heartbreaking to turn your back on something you love so much, but when it's harming other living beings, what choice do we have? 💗 Best wishes to you
Hey Jenny, great to see you again :D after keeping fancy goldfish for 4+ years I agree with you 100%. I loved my orandas and ryukins to death, but all of them passed away from swim blatter issues specially when they got really big. It was really stressfull for the fish and for me as a keeper, because as you said there is not much you can do but watch. I tried everything to prevent it but it was just impossible.
I dont keep goldfish anymore, at all, because I also believe it's not ethical, specially for the fish because no matter how hard you try, they wont be able to live a healthy life.
Also, by the stupidity of humans goldfish became an invasive species in wildlife, and as a nature lover I dont feel good with myself anymore by contributing to this market. I love goldfish, I think they are beautiful fish, but it's not right.
Thank you for sharing this video and remember this: we all came for goldfish, but we all stayed for you.
I'm a long time subscriber and I really hope you're in a happy place now ❤
have you heard of common or comet goldfish?
Muts are *reliably* healthier - so I totally understand why you think it is potentially messed up to breed them like this... especially when we *know* how it damages them and hinders them.
Great video! I saw you in Minneapolis at Aqualand a few years ago 😊 I still have the goldfish pin you gave each of us on my fave backpack!
That meet-up was so much fun!! 💗
@@flashofpink 😊😊😊 yes! I really enjoyed it!
I'm a goldfish lover myself, I consider them my specialization cause they are what I got into fishkeeping to keep and what I keep most of... to hear these kind of practices are being used is... horrifiying. I personally try to avoid going for the more expensive "perfect" fish and find myself drawn towards culls and imperfects more often. For example I owned a culled Tosakin for years that had a smaller fin and a longer body. I think the main issue in the hobby or at least one of the main issues is that all these "authorities" on breed standards take things to such extremes. I like pearlscales, I've kept one myself... but I would never say get a crown pearl, nor do I get the ones that are so round they might as well be a golf ball. Smaller pearlscales that are slimmer are better in my opinion and have a decent life quality from my experience while still keeping the trait people love. The fish that fall outside of breed standards are more often than not far more beautiful in my eyes. And much healthier. (I keep or have kept Butterfly Telescopes, Tosakin, Common, Fantails, Telescopes, Nymphs, Orandas, Pearlscales)
I think an interesting perspective to take is how can we FIX it? Nobody ever talks about that, just how bad it is. Like with pugs, people are breeding pugs with dogs that aren't pugs to improve the breeds health. Do you think it's possible to breed the problems out of the more unethical varieties? Do you think it'd be possible to make more space in the body for the organs and keep their egg shape or do you think we'd have to do away with things like the egg shape and big fins? I don't personally like the bubble eyes, they kind of make me squeamish because of the thought of them popping and they look hellishly unnatural. Maybe a tiny bit of bubble under the eye like there used to be, otherwise that's a no for me.
I've never owned goldfish but I have betta.
Back breeding with fish of more reasonable body shapes and stopping the inbreeding practices of the really highly modified fish is definitely a start. I personally don't breed fish but I do have 5 fantail goldies, all of which are clearly 'mutts' as they have longer bodies but long fins. Most of them are very healthy and don't have any trouble swimming or with diseases, except for 1 which has some kind of cancer, which I do think has to do with it being from a poor stock. I got them from a local pet store, almost 6 years ago now, but I do wish I had done more research from the beginning and gotten even less overbred varieties.
@@viabrus8609 I feel the same about my betta tbh. I have two long fin bettas, the rest are short fin or plakats. I don't think I'll be getting anymore longfins, it just looks like they struggle to swim with all the added weight. Plakat males like my mostly orange/rainbow Koi boy Ponyo have the prettiest spread and move so flawlessly.
I generally don't like inbreeding in any animal. It's just excused incest. Like, if it's not okay for people, why is it okay for animals? Mutts are the way to go imho and they're comparatively healthier, not to mention how unique some are.
Wow... I am completely shocked. I am new to freshwater fish keeping, and had no idea any of this was happening. I guess I shouldn't be surprised - we've been doing these horrific things to terrestrial animals for hundreds of years, but those scenes from the fish farm were really hard to watch. And extremely important, for that reason. Thank you SO much for sharing all of this. I am disappointed that there are not many, many more people in the hobby discussing this. This was an incredibly sensitive, nuanced, and compassionate discussion of a difficult topic, and I am so grateful to you for posting this! You have saved me so much heartache... and I'm sure it's reached many others as well. Thank you again, and much love to you and your crew of critters 😺💕
You absolutely did the right thing saying something, i had no idea about all these practices so thank you for bringing awareness to it. Its clear you truly love goldfish because you care about their wellbeing and keeping them healthy and happy.
Orandas and fan tails are the only fancy ones that I personally think can be ok when they aren’t the extreme ones
I’ve had ranchus, butterfly telescopes, and orandas and common
Orandas and common ones were the only ones that seemed like they could survive at all
The others either always had a problem or needed help with something and it didn’t look like a good quality of life
This year I got two butterfly telescopes and the difference between their ability to find food and swim and a fan tail is absolutely shocking. They still havent totally figured it out. Poor guys.
@@AbbiZika I very frequently had to hand feed and make sure they god food
After losing so many fancy goldfish, my heart was too broken and I had to really think about the ethics of the way they were breed. Swim bladdar issues and dropsy made me want to cry and I gave up on fish keeping and switched to plants. Although I still love fish, I don't want to keep them anymore.
this is how i feel about fancy goldfish and bettas :( my heart has just been broken too many times
The common goldfish is one of the most abused fish in the industry. You can help to save some of them from that horrendous fate and give them a home with love. They are still wonderful animals and beings.
I stumbled on this video, but I was aware of you in the past. I really really appreciate the honesty and compassion in this video. Thank you for putting this out there.
That scraping off the scales so they grow back white/clear was truly horrifying.
So you don't consume fish?
@@humanbean392 Mate, there's more than enough vegetarians out there who, surprise, do not consume fish.
Plus, scraping skin off of LIVING ANIMALS is pretty different from consuming fish.
It makes me sad seeing fancy goldfish owners blame themselves for swim bladder disorders and other sicknesses, when the real problem is often just from the fishes being so deformed and inbred
I've kept and and occasionally bred fancy goldfish for 20 years. I absolutely love them, their appearance and their character but I stopped keeping them a few years ago because of all the reasons you mentioned in this video. It's sad, I still find them extremely beautiful but I couldn't cope with all the health issues and quality of life in some types anymore.
Amazing video and so important to discuss. I'm so happy you're using your platform to discuss these issues--which are issues in MOST animal keeping hobbies--like the spider morph in ball pythons, betta fish, cats, even PLANTS.
I love this direction your channel has taken, and I'll always be a fan 💖
Where are some good places to look for adoptable fancy goldfish? I almost never find any on Craigslist, petfinder, or similar websites even if I put in something crazy like a 250 mile radius.
Hi Jenny, I like the way you talk about the facts without too much emotion and bias. The focal point of all the different opinions on goldfish ethics is in the different viewpoints of Life. The Western world treats goldfish as a pet or a live entity. However, on the other hand, the Eastern world treats the goldfish more like a piece of artwork, like a statue. Just to be clear that I am not saying that the Eastern world ignores the life of goldfish. In fact, if you get a chance to read the old classic goldfish keeping in Chinese or Japanese. Lots of wisdom on how to keep goldfish in a natural and healthy environment. It is just they (eastern breeders) may focus more on the specialty or uniqueness of the goldfish. They want to build a masterpiece of the goldfish. I am quite familiar with Eastern goldfish keeping/breeding techniques. Just to confirm that what you described the unnatural way of breeding Tosakin and Jikin is actuate and real. Personality, I don't support the Japanese style of breeding the Tosakin and Jikin, either.
I have to say, when I watched your videos about your trip to Japan I could tell there were some practices you were uncomfortable with. In the opening to one of the videos, I noticed a clip of someone performing scale manipulation and you briefly mentioned some concerns about fish treatment, but from what I can remember there wasn't further reference to scale manipulation in any of the videos. I got the sense you were under a lot of pressure from the production team and you might have shot some more footage about the jikins that you ended up cutting.
I have been keeping fancies for about a year now and absolutely love them, but I share a lot of your ethical concerns. I have been keeping only orandas (with the exception of one ranchu) because I'm worried about health issues - and my own potential to perpetuate them - with the more heavily modified breeds. Even in the shorter and rounder bodied orandas you can, as you mentioned, have a lot of health issues due to swim bladder disorder and poor immunity.
Another issue you didn't address in the video are the shortened lifespans caused by intense grooming, particularly in certain countries. The fish are kept in very high temperatures and pumped full of food (and possibly hormones) so that they grow too big too fast. Not only does this run out their metabolic clock, it can cause a whole slew of other issues with organ development. I've found the healthiest fish by far to be the ones I've gotten young and raised myself. In an effort to be as ethical a fish keeper as possible, I'm transitioning from buying imports to buying more locally bred fish. I'm just starting to try breeding some of them myself, and I want to do it as ethically as possible to produce healthier and happier fish.
I am so sorry that you have departed the goldfish hobby. I think you just got discouraged because you had trouble keeping the fish alive. Like any pet hobby buying from reputable breeders is very important. I have a fish room and I have been keeping goldfish for years. I have a 140 gallon with 8 fancy goldfish and I have had no problems when I purchase from good breeders. I buy all my fish from Thailand. I also have bubble eye and butterfly Goldfish again no problems. I do not have swim bladder or any major health issues. The only issue I encountered was when I fall behind on water changes.
Just because there are some unethical people in the industry does not mean all fancy goldfish are sick or unhealthy.
I hope you will not deprive yourself of this wonderful hobby as you’re really talented.
So happy to see you are back on CZcams.
You loved goldfish and almost became one of the most successful Goldfish channels on CZcams. I hope you won’t let your unfortunate experiences with bad breeders stop you from your love of butterfly goldfish. There are amazing breeders out there.
I also keep discus fish no problems.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have SLOOOOOWLY been thinking the same. The ones that slowly grew up to not have those perfect standards, lived longer in my experience. The most recent one I bought came with uneven eyes and a curled gill. Not perfect but still cute. So if anyone is looking for a company that does not toss the imperfect ones , their name is Coast Gem USA. I hope they do not get mad at me for saying they were not perfect. It just made me happy that they bestowed a special fish that they gave a chance for me to have… instead of tossing it aside in a ditch.
Your timing with these videos are so perfect for me! I never really thought about goldfish like dog breeds and it totally makes sense. I love bulldogs and French bulldogs but I will never own one because I don’t want to support breeding animals with such severe breathing issues. Thank you for putting this information out there. Education about this stuff is important!
Huge Respect!!! for speaking the truth and taking step to explore these abusive industries, no sentient being should be abused and harmed in anyway for our greed and sickening needs!
Been away from the CZcams goldfish world for awhile so just now seeing this. Great job clearing expressing your views. I started with common goldfish in a planted tank, then switched to ranchus when my original fish passed. I might switch back to commons one day.
I just found you recently and I am so happy you opened this up. Over breeding in a world of so many animals that need homes and breeding disease, I have always had a hard time with the idea of breeding. Love your channel!!
Hibuna(common) and Comets are best. the rest just have problems after problems
I love my bubble eyes but I do feel a bit sorry for them..they don't get to the food as fast as the other fishy friends...I dont like the the oranda/telescope mix
Omg yes another video!! Can’t wait to hear your thoughts and watch this! (I was formerly a fancy goldfish keeper and do have some heartache)
I lost my 4 fancies (purchased from recommended online vendors) within 2-3 years to dropsy/swimbladder issues. It's very sad. My lone remaining goldfish is a calico fantail youngling that has a 46 gallon Seaclear bowfront all to itself. I can't bring myself to buy a companion even though he would enjoy it. Maybe another fantail. His body is much more streamlined/long-bodied. As an aside, angulation (which is what you were meaning when talking about a GSD's hind legs) does not cause HD. That is a genetic issue.
I didn't know you stopped having goldfish because you love them so much
Its pretty obvious
@@jzila9900 I orginally took it as she lost interest in the hobby and she was an abusive relationship so she had to get herself in safe place. I didn't know the horrific stuff they'd do in fish farms
Even though this video was a downer but I still feel like it was worth watching and we should all spread awareness about this topic. I personally have had a lot of goldfish in the past and have even made mistakes like keeping them in small bowls but I learnt from my mistakes from watching your videos. So I want to thank you!
Brilliant discussion. These things need to be said. I keep calico veiltail goldfish and have for about twenty years. I have experienced health problems with them. Over the years, my fish have become more robust, less round and have shorter fins. In essence, I suppose they are returning more towards a natural confirmation. I keep my fish in outdoor ponds and I live in Scotland so they have to be strong or they will not survive the long winters. I would not win any shows with my fish nowadays, but they are healthy and strong and don't suffer with the swim bladder issues they used to have. They are still beautifully colourful and have lovely big fins, but not so long as to invite disease. They are still recognisably veils as well, as I select for broad tails, although I don't breed them every year. You do have to wonder if it's right to 'breed' anything really, and if you do, to do it as responsibly as possible. Thanks for bringing the subject up. These animals depend on us as we are responsible for the way they are.
You seem healthier, that's good to see.
I agree and I think the issue is pretty common with hobby fish. I've noticed the same with fancy guppies in real time. Over the past 15-20 years the vigor of fancy guppies have steadily declined especially in the fancier lines.
Hobbyist breeders can be phenomenal but I don't think enough of them learn about general breeding practices like back crosses and crossing wild types in ever few generations. It slows the whole selection process down but you end up with much healthier and more vigorous fish in the end.
IMO, there should be hobby breeder networks where hobbyists can trade other breeders and genetic lines are tracked so you have some feel for the diversity being fostered in the population.
“Use your brain cells!” I loved that! Animals definitely feel pain. Not trying to convert anyone here, but I became vegan for those ethical reasons.
@@orandachildren1051 Humans actually don't require meat to survive. Protein, yes, but there are plenty of sources besides meat. Nuts, seeds, beans, etc.
@@orandachildren1051 Eating meat for subsistence , and dumping 1000 fish on the road so you can produce 50 cute ones , has nothing in common , just substitute fish for people
If I were starving in a cave , yes I would eat soemone , but killing 1000's of people so you can get some interesting friends ............... Is weird
a juicy video ❤️🔥 I’m excited to hear your opinion on the topic!
Anytime money is involved and you have a living being who can't speak up for itself you know what is going to happen. This information needs to be said. Horrible abuse for sure and it needs to stop.
Standing ovation. So impressed that you have been able to evolve your view on this issue given how much you love goldfish. I am a film-maker exploring this issue as part of a follow up to a broadcast documentary we made about purebred dogs back in 2008. Would love to talk to you about this issue.
I can be reached at solidgoldaquatics@gmail.com
When you say they have all these problems, it seems like certain types such as telescopes and pearlescales are much more prone to issues. How long would you say your average fish lived?
I feel this way about bettas as well. I had a male with huge beautiful long flowing fins and he nipped them off and was miserable no matter what I did. I now only keep short tailed bettas. I feel very sad for them all though.
I feel that, my veiltail Sebastian had really long fins that when he was younger didn’t seem to cause issues until the weight of his fins caused ripping or nipping and weighed him down 😔 since then I only support the short tailed or female type bettas because they live a better life.
so glad your bringing these topics up, people need to know what these poor animals go through.
20:46 Palmer in the back just being a relaxed laid out dog we all love
I’ve never liked the fish with extreme eyes. Bubble eyes, celestial eyes, and huge telescopic eyes. Felt sorry for them.
I really appreciate this video. I've never been a goldfish hobbyist, but I've owned other so-called "exotic" animals, particularly larger reptiles. After learning more about breeding practices and standards of care, I also experienced cognitive dissonance about how the animals lived in the wild versus the types of care the animals were given, especially when it came to enclosure sizes. I no longer own any reptiles because of this. Growing up my dad always said to me, "If you love animals so much, why do you put them in a cage for your own amusement?" I guess I've really had to reconsider what I mean by "love" in this sense.
Wow, I only found this channel today from your post about Goldfish Palooza 5 years ago and see the new direction. Interestingly, I also stopped keeping fancy goldfish for some time, but then restarted after some deals at the Goldfish Palooza 4 years ago. Now, with just one fancy remaining, I might go back to single tails.
I don't keep goldfish because I'm not allowed due to the amount of swim bladder disorders which would upset me so my boyfriend said no to anymore. By accident I mostly kept globe eyes, none of which has swimming issues and could manage the flow but there was like a kill switch on the swim bladder in which after a few years or even months the bladder gets displaced. I might who knows switch more to focusing on the discus for my interest in genetics and although I'm not keen on the domestically bred variants and some have what I think is questionable body shapes their organs aren't being shoved to one side or another (not really talking about the short bodied discus).
I've tried to own goldfish several times and the fancy ones never lasted very long :( I've always wanted a ranchu but now maybe I'll look into a different more healthy variety
Honestly I’m interested in breeding my ryukins, but the only reason I say this is because they have beautiful long fins but not huge fins, and they actually get around the pond super well and they actually keep up with my shubunkin and comets in the pond, and Imm not sure what genres they have that helped that, but introducing those genes into the less nice genes for goldfish seems like a good idea. Little secret, I’m more interested in breeding my shubunkins.
I agree with everything you said in this video. I had a ranchu for 6 years and recently had to put her down due to swim bladder problems. She spent all her time sitting on the bottom of the tank and because of that developed really bad sores on her belly. I now have fantail goldfish that have a more streamlined body shape and I’m hoping they do not develop the same problems.
I thought I should share my story about my goldfish, who was one of my favorite pets I've ever owned - she was a comet goldfish, a feeder from a pet store. She followed your finger, and was making the most of her situation, it was inspiration and heartbreaking. She had black spots on her when I first got her, that went away after about a week - they were actually just ammonia spots. She turned out to be a beautiful reddish orange color, with a white tipped tail. She was the size of my fingernail at first, and when she was big enough, I moved her outside into the pond. She grew to be about 12" long, and was always so happy and energetic, and visited anyone who came over. She ate out of your hand, and was kind enough to help the other fish find food when they couldn't get enough. She was a pleasure and everyone in the household, as well as all the other fish just loved her. Last year she passed away, after only living to be about 6, which is pretty young still I've been told. Even though she had the streamline body shape, she still had very poor genes (I'm sure feeder goldfish always do), and the thing that took her life was a genetic cancer that developed on her back. She is still missed to this day, but I'm glad she's no longer in pain. Swim free in the sky without pain, wherever you are now, Fortune! 🐟 💖 ☁️☀️☁️
i have a goldfish that i won at a carnival about six years ago. its grown huuuuge and i named him piggy because hes a pale pink color and always ready to eat. he has a 60 gallon tank and hes very happy. i love him alot. i am convinced hes blind and always has been since i won him though. not sure why or how but just something ive noticed.
Great video! This is one of the reasons I haven't gotten into the goldfish keeping part of the hobby. I'm wondering if there are any breeds that don't have the issues you've brought up?
Basically the less "fancy" the variety and the closer it resembles the crucian carp ancestor, the fewer issues it will have. That means varieties like the common goldfish (also called hibuna), comet, shubunkin, watonai, etc. Those types are super cute and have the lovable goldfish traits too, but are often overlooked in favor of the round-bodied fancy goldfish.
@@flashofpink Thanks!!!
Flower horn breeding is one of the best example of genetics experimentation .... humans tends to appreciate on what they see whether its good or bad...
Jenny, your return to CZcams has been so nice. All of your new videos have been very interesting, and your change to a variety of subjects has been really successful. I have really enjoyed your channel. :)
Thank you so much 💗
The one's you see in the shops are the decent one's. It's all the one's that are culled because their inbreeding causes issues are the hidden toll.
Hopefully, in the not-so-distant future, just as the binding of women's feet is no longer legal, the practices of goldfish breeders will be changed so that the fish will be treated humanely as well. This was a really well-thought-out video and you did a really good job of making your case. I really admire your compassion for all things living.
Some gasoline to add to the fire, from the dog side of things:
1) Ear cropping.
2) Tail docking.
3) Breeds incapable of giving birth on their own.
4) Incidence of cancer in certain breeds.
5) Physical deformities due to line- and cross-breeding.
The dog world absolutely has it's own dark side, too. Thank you for your considerate, clear conversation on these topics. There are a lot of us here who "have your back"!
I'm so glad you voiced these issues. I've followed you for a while and am hoping to get a pair of fantails next year once I can fit their tank in my room, but the inhumane elements in the aquaculture hobby as a whole have always made me uneasy. Thankyou for speaking out about it and I hope one day you'll be able to look at goldfish without hearing that awful scraping again
Damn, as a fish keeper, i think It must be a traumatic experience witnessing how to "make" The jikin colour 😶. Human are so cruel.
Then why stop at goldfish? Dogs like pugs, short legged breeds, sphinx cat (hairless), and many more. If we start looking too deeply it all falls apart quickly. Just take care of the fish you own to the best you can, and call it a day.
Guess we should all become vegetarians because the meat industry is full of inbreeding/culling too.
MY thoughts exactly.snowflakes are taking over the world.Madness.
That intro was like intervention but the goldfish edition lol
Thank you for shedding light, I have never had the “fancy” type goldfish, however I have had comets and shubunkins for years..Just on a very small level. I am sorry for all you went through and I do miss your goldfish content,as I am not a reptile person…however I still love to see you and the furries💕
My experiences with shubunkin goldfish have been none other than great, no swim bladder issues or illness at all not to mention great swimmers
That scale scraping reminds me of a video I saw once that scarred me for life of the inhuman practices of skinning in other countries. For a fish I imagine it has to feel pretty similar, or perhaps like having fingernails pulled off. Those poor things, how can anyone do that, from an emotional standpoint… I’m sure some are forced into such awful labor but that’s just horrifying… all for pretty colors. Ugh.
Fish do feel pain. Nature already makes the most beautiful animals, plants ect. we should not interfere with it. I myself had fancy goldfish in the past. It makes me cry to hear that fish being dumped on the side of the road. These ppl have no compassion, but as long as we support/buy the animals they will breed. we can make a difference and as we humans evolve then this will end!
Hello Jenni,
Which of the elongated style fancy goldfish do you personally believe are the most ethical? Fo you also believe that it is most breeders who scrape the scales of the Jinkin to create the red/ white colouration and is this the same for Wakin? Many thanks
Dear Jenny, I fully understand your point of view and the ethical questions you raise are very relevant. I have experienced these problems myself. I lost a lot of goldfish before they were 3 years old due to the reasons you mention and it frustrated me to the point that I banned some varieties (oranda, riyukin, bubbleeyes). Today I have only of normal / shubunkin type or elongated egg type (ranchu or maruko) and over time I will only maintain four specimens (because goldfish grow big!) in my aquarium with my rainbowfish, angel fish and discus (yes, surprisily, we can keep these species together!)
During the last few months, I have reviewed the installation of my aquarium by following Father Fish's videos on CZcams. It was a big revelation! I strongly advise you to watch them and follow his recommendations because they allowed me to understand the essential role of the soil (gravel is to be avoided! Sand is the best choice), bacteria and plants and understanding why some of my fish die. To ensure excellent health for fish in general and reduce the health problems of goldfish, you must plant the aquarium at 70%, introduce a large biodiversity of bacteria and microorganisms (to have this, look for the bacteria product for PONDS or go get some water, wood, rocks and a little sand extract from a HEALTHY LAKE and put dead leaves at the bottom, boiled beforehand which will form a litter. Bacterial explosion which will maintain your filters and feed your fish). In the wild, fish eat ESPECIALLY microorganisms and they often fast. The food they are given should be seen as a SMALL COMPLEMENT. In short, this means that a well-established aquarium, like any ecosystem, must be able to feed your fish on its own! Yes, you read that right! This is what happens in my aquarium! Feed your fish only 3 TIMES A WEEK (small amount that should be eaten in less than a minute!) and you will have healthy fish and very easy maintenance! Aquarium hobby are supposed to be easy, uncomplicated and above all not techno! Do exactly as in Nature. Jenny, you can give a second chance for goldfish! Take care!
Ive definitely had many, many issues with swim bladder disorders amongst many other problems with fancies. I’ve also definitely noticed the shortened lifespan with fancy goldfish, some of my first goldfish (generic long bodied goldfish from a well known pet store) are still alive whilst none of my fancies are alive now and none of them lived more than six years or so.
When I had goldfish (for some years) I mostly sticked to the fantails (with normal eyes or head.. no other weird looking type.. or at least weird in my eyes) :D
The only exception I had was the black moor (not too many) variation.. but the normal fantails were always my faves and didn't feeI a need to buy other types. Less issues with them in my experience. (except them being the pigs of aquariums and acting as being hungry often that you can barely admire them doing their own thing in the tank (as soon as they saw me in the room.. they were energetic (happy to see me for feeding I guess) near the front glass.. LoI + The famous swim bladder / bloat that you can sometimes avoid). To be honest.. I was barely a fan of your goldfish you had in the past.. BUT I did follow this channel because of your passion for fish. (we shared the same passion of fish / aquariums.. and after some time you also started to take other types of fish too. Got kinda d!sappointed when I saw you quit on EVERY AQUARIUM OR FISH.. no matter it's type.
I also did adjustments in this hobby (been in this hobby for 17 years.. but in the last few years I remained at only one big aquarium and the other (2nd) is active only when I need some quarantine or some babies appear and I want to save at least 3 or 4. xD ..Now I also have resilient (less prone to diseases) fish and some that requires less care or attention (or at least compared to OTHER types of fish). Anyone can still stay in this hobby as long as they do.. ADJUSTMENTS (that can be done even for you having less time or space).
Thanks for making this video! As a goldfish lover I agree that there is a lot of unethical goldfish breeding. I don't think its ethical to sell goldfish that have swim bladder issues or that have "mild" swim bladder issues since those issues always get worse and worse. AND PEAS DO NOT CURE SWIM BLADDER. With what I know from experience, I'm always super careful with which goldfish I buy or select to breed.
I remember watching you back in the day and wondering if you had this opinion about it in the back of your head at times. As much as I enjoyed your goldfish videos and all the cuties that you had kept over the years, I had an aching feeling that what a lot breeders are doing to the goldfish as a species is unethical. I'm so so so happy that you posted your comparison from then and now to show the growth that you've experienced in the hobby. Good job for speaking your truth!