Why 3D printers can't be CNC mills
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
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Why is a CNC mill or router different from a 3D printer and is it a good idea to convert one into the other? That's what we're discussing in this video!
The three CNC/printers shown:
Sienci Mill One sienci.com/
Converted Mendel Max • CNC mill built from a ...
CR-10 toms3d.org/CR10yellow
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I use a CNC router at work and recently got into 3D printing in the last two years. You’re right. I really got a heads up on programming and such. Great video! I was excited to see it!
I know a lot of people have a hard time accepting in video sponsorship but your in video adds are always so seamless and well thought out it doesn't even seem like they are advertisements. Nicely done.
Nice one, Tom... I'm amazed at how the quality of your content has improved over such a short time. Keep it up!
Great video Tom, fantastic as usual!
So that's why Tom pronounces Slic3r as Slick-3R
It kills me every time. I think it is pronounced "sl-eye-ser". Slic3r is clearly a clever mix of numbers and letters to compose a word, not a phonetic spelling.
He knows that he just disagrees with it because it confuses users, especially noobies.
As a CNC machinist, I do agree with the majority of this. From my experience, the G-Code is not exactly carried over, there are some careless changes that were made along the way that legitimately should be addressed in the firmware. In the Reprapfirmware on the Duet wiki, M30 is "Delete a file on the SD card." In machining, M30 is always the last line of every program and according to my little cheater book from Haas Automation, it is referred to as "Program End and Reset." It is a lot of little things, such as this, that I think stray away from conventional/traditional CNC G-Code (specifically with CNC Mill code, CNC Lathes and other types will be very different) just a bit too much.
I agree, 3D printers [would not and should not be used as CNC Mills or Routers] due to the severe lack of strength, rigidity, precision, and so much more. Not to mention, that legitimate industrial equipment such as a Mill, a Lathe, a Router, etc, are standardized. This should not be forgotten either. International standards require machines to have power kill switches, safety lights, etc. CNC machines, the good ones at least, are typically completely enclosed so these chips flying everywhere are contained, so the coolant does not get all over the place, so that in the event the workpiece comes flying out of the vice or a tool explodes/shatters...it hits the walls instead of you. As a result of the extra rigidity, strength, safety, elevated standards, a higher degree of cleanliness (usually), these machines take up a significantly larger footprint as one might imagine. At the high-end, these machines are made for high-volume production and are close to completely autonomous once set up. An operator needs only to change a tool every so often, load stock into it, check to ensure dimensions are still accurate, etc.
These typically do not start under $10,000 and realistically the good ones don't start until about $30,000 (new) and can easily exceed a million for a single machine depending on the application and the precision needed.
At the high end of the spectrum, think Medical or more likely Aerospace (Lockheed Martin, Boeing, GE, and these types of companies), a company called now called DMG Mori has high-end CNC Mills that do also have Additive Manufacturing tool heads. These are Selective Laser Melting (or similar depending on who owns what name) and is typically "3D printing" or laser welding with Aerospace-grade materials such as stainless steel, titanium, Inconel, and so on, from a super fine dust -like powder and intentionally made slightly oversized (or undersized for internal structures). Once enough of the model is "printed" it is then machined, bored, or reamed to the correct dimension extremely precisely, we're talking about micron level here or smaller.
While this is accurate in saying that 3D printers should not be converted into CNC routers or mills, I do believe that a CNC Mill or Router could be turning into a 3D printer with the right modifications and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do that either. It should be clear that this is a short, simplified video. While the information in this video is correct, it is definitely simplified, which is a good thing here. Assuming a thermoplastic extrusion printer is wired correctly and safely, the worst thing that could happen is it breaks itself, it wastes plastic because it doesn't know to stop, or someone gets burned by touching the hot end. It should be common sense, nevertheless, introducing a spinning/rotating cutter adds much more potential danger than one might initially realize. My school's Haas VF2 CNC Mill has a max spindle speed of 7,500 rpm, to clarify...if something goes wrong at that speed...you really do not have time to react fast enough. With 3D printers, mistakes can be made and it is usually not that big of a deal, or not outrageously expensive to fix. When you step up to Lathes, Mills, Routers, etc, the level of respect for the machines must come with that step up. These machines are far less forgiving, much higher voltage, much higher amperage, much stronger and much faster (as well as more responsive) motors, and much more danger potential all around. The additional rigidity and strength also mean that if you crash it, it is a much worse crash than with a 3D printer. When you crash one of these machines, the cost for repair starts at several hundred and can easily exceed $10,000 and really hurt someone at the same time. Once you enter Industrial Manufacturing Machines, the money, skill and education requirements...tends...to...increase....a lot.
3D Printers and other CNC machines do have a surprising amount in common with each other, they really do. Unfortunately, where they differ...makes all the difference. I am building a 3D printer now as if it were a CNC mill and using linear rails, all aluminum (or steel, I am using mostly aluminum though) construction, CNC milled and at times precision ground (very, very accurate) ball screws, and so on. I am even using larger motors with precision planetary gearheads rather than higher microstepping. As of right now there is still a very large gap between 3D printers on the hobbyist level and industrial precision manufacturing machines, I am going to great lengths to shorten that gap as much as I can, for everyone.
An excellent, well thought-out reply! I did want to mention one thing (that you may very well already know) - M codes are technically machine specific & as far as I can tell, there's no official standard for what each code does. There's obviously the "unofficial" standard for the common ones (M30 is a good example), but they're all very specific to subtractive processes.
Oh, you're absolutely right. I was looking closer at the CNC Lathe M-Codes and there were a TON of differences 😂
They are most definitely machine and application specific, some are even dependent on manufacturer (which I cannot stand). I think the closer these two types of manufacturing are, the more productive users can be. It'll be fun to see what people can do with this as it continues to evolve and mature.
Smoothieware has a 6 axis build which the gcode is based on GRBL. From my understanding the Gcode it uses is much more "standard". Wolfmanjm has always hated the butchered gcode standard that Reprap adopted so he put some effort into making it more compatible when using the 6 axis build.
3D print tool head has a problem: ooze. To combat ooze, you retract and move at the same time, but it only holds back ooze for a short time, so you have to reach your destination before you have started oozing. Which means that high non-print move speed is important in 3D printers, so high reduction is not very helpful.
Thank you for this insightful response!
Good to see Bob again!
Great video, mate. I really like the new format :D
hello thomas congratulation for the video, its amazing, im bulding a cnc and i dont known how to put the Z axis, do you think its better to use 2 Z axis in the frame like a 3D printer or use only one motor on the top of the sppindle, do you think that because the drill its up to force with the material its better to have the Z axis in parallell way than having a dual Z axis like a 3D printer, thanks for answering
Great Video! We use both types of machines frequently on my design team. It's really cool to see the amount of similarities, but the scale of the differences between types of machines.
Great video as always Tom. Have you seen Thermwood's LSAM machine. It's a large scale 3D printer and CNC mill in one. What do you think of that and could it be made smaller?
I've been thinking about why we can't get both in one - at least without it being a little shoddy - but once again your enjoyable analytic style answered a lot of questions! Thanks!
You can, but it's cost. bottom line is you could put a hot end on a CNC machine and it will work with far more accuracy than a regular 3D printer(obviously with a bit of coding), you can't go the other way due to the rigidity requirement. By the time you have spent that much cash on a decent machine (+plus the tooling and workholding) a stand alone 3D printer is such a low cost purchase you might as well get a stand alone one. You also have the mess issue, there is a lot of chips and if you are working with metal, cutting fluids and oil, things 3D printing does not like.
By "can't get" I meant that they aren't readily available on the market. ;)
But the mess factor is a huge one, for sure! - going back and forth would be insane.
Today I Made absolutely! I’m a CNC machinist and you could basically strap a hotend on any CNC. You just would Need to build a strong and sturdy hobby cnc and you could use it for both
Lucas Imark I've been considering a CNC for some time now. I don't currently have space for more devices really, but that's something I'm working on. - Also need more proper studio space for sure!
Machines that are compromises between two or more use case scenarios are always, not too surprisingly, full of compromises. They have to be. For example, just one small aspect, I have a mid sized mill/router (itself a compromise) CNC that I've added a hotend to, it has excellent accuracy and repeatability running on 25mm linear guides in all dimensions which are mounted to poured epoxy granite over a 9mm wall thickness steel frame, its as stiff as a stiff thing, oo la la (and nearly killed me several times in construction). BUT..the x axis gantry alone weighs over 100kgs...it runs nema 34 motors, the energy cost of leaving it running for more than 24 hours straight?! lets just say that print needs to be damn valuable to me when a small purpose made machine can produce "good enough" results at a fraction of the cost, both in $$ and time and hassle doing the changeover from one mode to the other. And a heated chamber big enough to enclose it? out of the question.
With this in mind. What are your thoughts on the modular snapmaker? Its claimed to be a good 3 in 1.
Big fan of your channel Tom! Kongrats on great content and sensible advice. Just signed up to Skillshare. Auf wiedersehen!
Thomas, this is an awesome video. I remember when I was first looking into getting a printer, I was really going back and forth between a cnc machine or a 3d printer. I went 3d printer obviously, but this is absolutely awesome....
What about the xcarve and shapeoko?
Thanks Thomas. Very educational. I'm suppose to receive my Glow Forge within the next 6 weeks and have to switch my thinking from my CR-10.
A cnc mill can be plenty fast enough to 3D print. The real issue is that mills that are not toys are usually big and heavy (1000+ kg). And expensive. And it wouldn't do any better than the cheap CR 10 so it would be crazy to use it like that.
Exactly, I did that kind of crazy with my cnc, it didn't last long. The machine was better used whipping up a small but accurate purpose-built printer with little baby linear rails, it's so cute, ...and cheap to run.
All mills are toys, just expensive toys :-)
I have successfully converted my ender 3 into a cnc, i have replaced the v slot wheels of the y axis with linear rails and soon will do the same with x axis so i can mill aluminium. The main problem to me is shavings fly everywhere and the fact that 3 axis are very limiting for cnc. Still besides for the linear rails it's very cheap and easy to convert. Fusion 360 is also a very powerful tool for this, it can do anything a hobbyist wants for free.
What are you using for a control? Arduino?
Hey Thomas! great fan of ur channel. Just wondering, what firmware is the cnc and 3d printer using? are they using the same firmware to run? if not, what are the firmware's that runs them?
MPCNC baby! I have cut 1/4" aluminum with it but I wouldn't use it as a printer since I made a D-Bot variant for that. Other people seem to print well with it.
TRUE I'm printing and CNC milling in one machine for the lat year! MPCNC all the way.
My print / CNC bed is 24"x36"
Hey Tom, any thoughts on converting a small 3dprinter to a pcb board mill? Either laser cutting or simple milling off the copper? I have a small printer I would like to try this on.
By first-hand experience, engraving a PCB does still require a lot of rigidity: scratching the copper surface with a V-shaped milling bit is a lot more stressful than laying down a thin layer of plastic. Even if you are careful and manage to scratch the surface in very thin passes (let's say 0.05 mm) the V bit engagement with the material will increase with the depth because with the deeper cuts the sides will engage into the material. Typical engraving depth for a good copper clad is 0.2mm, but with cheap chinese copper clads you often have to go to 0.4 to compensate for surface irregularities. That's a lot of side forces onto the gantry.
Can I use a 3d printer tevo tarantula controller for a cnc mill?
hello! I noticed that you have a CNC shield for the UNO, can you talk more about it, like a description of the board, I would like to know how to use the external signal part of the board(pins above the clone axis pins)
What is the name of the song that is playing? (example 10:35)
I can see where this would be an issue on larger scale machines. On a small scale, a 3-in-1 3D printer, CNC, and laser engraver like the Snapmaker has worked very well for me, as it helps fix some of the strength issues.
Will a plastic 3d printer file template work on a cnc 3d printer?
All good points! I started to look into 3D printers, then came across some models that can do CNC and laser engraving and then went into this rabbit hole of trying to find the best large scale machine which can do it all. Luckily I didn’t place the order. Yeah it is better to buy dedicated machines that can do each work properly. Plus that I can have all the machines do various things simultaneously without having to wait for one job to end and then deal with tool head changes. Thanks for the video
Very good video thanks. Even though the issue with the rigidity of cnc vs 3dp is obvious, I never thought about it really. Anyway you showed very good starting points to start thinking about. 👍
I want to know your opinion about the 3D Systems printers, for example the CUBE
Any thoughts on some of the advancements in combination models int he last two years - Stepcraft, Snapmaker, ect? Thanks for all the great content.
What about using a 3D printer as pcb milling machine? Could that work? I mean just for milling the conductor tracks, not for holes or cutting out the hole pcb.
Did you ever test a zmorph vx machine? I own one and its a perfectly fine 3d printer and CNC carver and láser engarver.
Can someone please identify the SW Thomas is using around 7:30? It looks pretty nice.
What about the Snapmaker? Combined 3D printer, laser engraver and CNC platform. Main disadvantage seems to be small build area.
Tom thank you for the discount on Skill Share, just signed up; small point of interest.. I believe a CNC Mill functioning like a printer, ( except top to bottom, instead of bottom up) would be referred to a 2+ axis machine because it is only moving in 2, or one at any given time, while keeping track of the 3rd (hence the plus) a three axis mill moves in all 3 axis at once.
Great subject! Thanks Tom.
So are you going to build a MPCNC?
Hey tom, i've been 3 years in the 3d printing world, and i ve learnt a lot , followed you from the beginning! Now i implemented an r&d department in my company beacuse of 3d printing parts, and now i feel that cnc would make a change also, and i need to start learning about it, do you know some channels in youtube that can help me with that? Like yours bu centered in CNC? Thanks for all your work over time, it really changed my workstyle, and somehow my life !!
Excellent explanation! I get this question often when people see the 3D printers and (CNC) milling machines side by side.
So in short: 3D printers not rigid enough to mill and milling machines are (usally) not fast enough to print. There is a way to have both but you have to throw a significant amounth of money at it. (servo motors + ballscrews are expensive. Especially when you step up to linear motors that are crazy expensive.)
For example (example of a crazy fast milling center) the DMG mori seiki milling centers with linear motors have rapid speeds of 100m/min
100*1000 = 100000mm/min.
100000 / 60 = 1666 mm/sec
Should be enough!
Source: nl.dmgmori.com/products/machines/milling/horizontal-milling/dmc-h-linear/dmc-80-h-linear
You should do a review of the Duet 3d controller. It’s perfect for a 3d printer /cnc machine.
i have 1 crucial question can i use a 3d printer MAINBOARD as the brain ?
lets just say for a metal lathe converted to cnc with 3d printer stepper motor
First :D
Love your videos btw! Thank you for all the information you’ve given the maker community! Keep it up!
Nice job on the closed captions.
Great explanation of the differences Tom. Thanks.
CNC mills as a 3D printer should be possible :)
@Protomaker Black Sprint Original 3D Printer should be easier as why level 3D printer bed when can mill level lol
@@mlee6050 lol what
@@CodyThierauf I always thought when want something level just mill it level, and why when I make a cnc router/mill (work for metal and wood) I plan to mill it flat
I converted my Anet A8 printer to CNC milling and PCB milling machine..
Just had to do some upgrades in hardware and have to change the g- code. Also the steps are very small so to minimize wear
@@EXplorer1.6180 Powerfull for cutting :)
I like your videos and this is no exception. And I know that creators in the 3D printing area are tipping their toes into the CNC/routing/milling topic. And I can understand the why. But one reason for me to use a 3d printer is that I can use it in my limited space. CNC routers are a different story. Laser cutters are much more logical step for me because you only have to fight with fumes.
owh I thought you were going to put a spindle on the cr-10, that would be cool.
I also have a "Bob" from the guys in Waterloo Canada
As well as a 3d printer and I believe they are a awesome combination that every home should have for making just about anything
Hi Tom, as per usual spot on.
This is why I designed my CNC to be a nice, rigid design. Anyway, when’s your TMC2130 video meant to come out?
Thank you - finally. I had thia discussion so often...
Thanks for helping me adjust my expectations of a 3d printer. I still want a 3d printer, but now i know that if i want a cnc i'll have to get a dedicated machine.
Where are the best places to go to learn about CNC machines that are DIY based communities?
I would like to find out what is avalible, and what would fit me needs well inside a budget, and perhaps how to leverage my kneemill and R8 equipment into a CNC environment if at all reasonable and possible?
Needs are fairly modest, but would like to be able to do aluminum proficiently, and the occasional steel part even if slowly.
cnczone.com It's all there if you are prepared to dig. A rich and vast resource full of grumpy old buggers and their invaluable pooled knowledge. The road is long, good luck on your journey.
Tom, how would a converted 3d printer to mill PCB? Would it be stable enough?
for super slow pcb milling you might be OK with just beefing up the frame if it started as a pretty rigid machine (not printrbot or others with cantilevered print heads) the sienci CNC machine (bob) is the lowest cost worthwhile machine and it will be significantly better.
Skooteh yeah I’m not looking for crazy production runs of pcb milling just for projects I am working on. I have a wanhao dup i3 which as a 3D printer it was horrible but was thinking of converting and beefing up to use as the pcb mill.
Skooteh yeah I’m not looking for crazy production runs of pcb milling just for projects I am working on. I have a wanhao dup i3 which as a 3D printer it was horrible but was thinking of converting and beefing up to use as the pcb mill.
it should be alright once beefed up. For what it's worth, the sienci CNCwould fall apart in a production environement very quickly.
hello, i know you get a million comments. but im building a 2000mmx1000mm plasma machine. would you reccomend 6x2 vslot carriage or lenier rail? i dont thing it would be over 5-10lb for x carriage. all aluminum extrusion. going to document it. im going all out.
You should review the Duet Wifi sometime since the Smoothieboard v2 seems to be taking forever.
This video shows the wide range of CNC machines available - AMAZING Machine Shop Tour: Berkeley Lab with Tom Lipton! - czcams.com/video/FmmNRaKpBTI/video.html
+Thomas Sanladerer
Hey Tom, I've a new project for you. I have a FDM Printer, but I am also interested in dlp/sla printers. Can you make a Video of the Properties of the printed parts? Basicly you would print the same parts on different types of printers and test their strengh, like you already do with the FDM Filaments. I know, that the FDM-Part will probably be the strongest, but seeing a relation between the types would be cool.
Thanks and keep up the good work :)
Engineering student here with plenty of experience in a machine shop and limited CNC machining experience. 3d printers converted to mills will never match the precision of a purpose built mill but I think they can make a good affordable alternative for people who don't necessarily need high precision and aren't making large parts. I personally am planning to build something similar to a CNC router eventually but with a bit more Z travel and possibly provisions for a 4th axis, but something like that doesn't make much sense as a commercial product.
Nice video Tom. This is focused on the technical aspect but there is a point which is not commonly told : Complementarity between additive and soustractive manufacturing. This leads to the 3d printing paradox : the more complex and/or long the job is to be done with soustractive manufacturing, the more it should be done by additive manufacturing. And vise versa. Your example was a job for a soustractive machine. We comonly make the mistake of printing stuff which should be done by other ways of manufacturing. Pre production is longer for milling, but not that much for a plotter, plasma or laser cutting. But there's always a limit point determined by complexity, machinig time and cost, that make a part suitable for a method of production rather than others. The part itself shows it must be manufactured by a particular process. I never seen a part which can be equaly manufactured by several ways.
I have been a machinest for 17 years I'm new to 3d printing! It's a lot of learning but fun. Tom can you do a video on every step to load marlin on a anet a8? I tried a lot of times and always get a timed out error.
max cox the usb to serial controller on the board might be dead
KatteMedZalo it's brand new
Want to see more CNC stuff. E.g.: Estlcam review. 3d 4th axis milling with Deskproto.
New camera?
As someone who has been in the machine tool industry, thank you....
Had my Wanhoe i3 v2 scribing out traces down to 0.2mm and drilling 0.6mm VIA's with a flex shaft dremel on a 16cm sq 2-sided PCB Prototype. Works beautiful for those two things. But dont waste your money thinking the 8mm rods on the X carriage are beefy enough to handle anything more than basic engraving, and only VERY lightly at that. There's too much flex in the rods and the sheet metal bracket to handle the cutting forces from a work piece like the copper foil on a PCB. Chatter is going to be the least of your worries. Then there's the whole drive setup, Like Thomas pointed out belts are garbage for dealing with cutting forces. However, this doesn't limit you from certain types of engraving, like say LASER engraving. Mounting a 2.5W LASER to your 3D printer does work well (as well as your stepper drivers and printer can do nice prints). There's even less load on the x-carriage because the LASER and mount weight a bit less than the hot-end.
Great video Thomas!
Are gt2 belts good for cnc?
The short answer is no. The long answer is you can use them (i.e., in the Shapeoko or Xcarve), but don't expect enough rigidity to do anything above cutting wood. IMO belts are too flexible for any milling or turning application. They do have their place within automation, don't get me wrong. Just not cutting.
possible: yes
good: not even close
Would love to see a video on how CANC manages to make perfectly smooth, round cuts, where printers are dependent on making smaller and smaller triangles or faces. My gut tells me there's a difference because gcode supports arc commands that are not supported by 3d printers. Any insight?
The slicer would need to recognize a round hole while slicing. .STL files by definition eliminate round holes and replace them with straight lines. I believe some higher end/proprietary (e.g. Statasys slicers) can do this, but it's rare and doesn't always work. When programming CNC milling machines, the model geometry itself is used as an aid to program the toolpaths, which allows the software to know if the cut should be an actual arc and output the g-code command for an arc. This allows the generation of very smooth circular motions. Keep in mind of course that these aren't actual circular motions, but interpolated circular motions. They are very, very accurate (depending on the machine, it could be less than a few ten-thousandths of an inch or better), but not 'true' circles. Hope this helps.
little bit of that, a little bit that CNC machines are more rigid and deflect less when they accelerate, and also a little bit that the cutter diameter on CNC machines is much more significant which effectively smooths the inside corners.
Models for 3D printing are converted to a format that takes the entire model and makes in into a shit load of triangles (STL files). As we all know, triangles have all flat surfaces. BUT, with greater "triangle resolution" you can get something that looks very much like a curve.
So the format of standard files is what makes the triangles. Because the popular slicers only support mesh files, that is all that we will have for now. This has nothing to do with CNC.
Keep in mind that 3D printers are CNC and they should easily be able to support ARC G-Code commands (for perfect circles). But none of the slicers are going to give you an arc because of the limits of mesh files, which are all triangles.
I'm so happy to see someone else pointing out the (IMO) flaws of the current .stl system. Someone over at Autodesk should really make plugin for Fusion 360 that let you slice your solid model directly. Think of the possibilities! You could enter a one-time offset for the slicer to automatically oversize holes printed in the X/Y plane (to deal with the "rubberbanding" effect of molten plastic). I'm actually really surprised that no one has done it yet (other than the aforementioned Stratasys software).
Not sure it's fair to compare times for a 0.4mm nozzle and a 0.2ish layer height on the 3d printer with a 1/8"(3.something)mm cut depth of maybe 1mm or so.
Also 'additive' machining and 'subtractive' machining. :)
Seems like it would be technically possible to make something that can function as both a decent CNC mill and a decent 3D Printer, but accounting for the needs of both would result in a machine that would be far more complicated and cost far more than just getting two machines. Not to mention the work switching between modes.
I agree with you. Just consider the dust left in CNC mill/router and the effect it would have if you suddenly switch to 3D printer: you'll have to precisely clean the entire work area or your print will be exposed to unwanted dirt, not counting for the extra weight or the reduced build volume. A decent CNC mill will definitely work as a 3D printer, but it would be really impractical and expensive.
It's like a Mondrian'd melting Dali face...
Double the artyness, double the "What is that?" :)
I liked the subtle reference to Michelangelo who said ""Every block of stone has a statue inside it and it is the task of the sculptor to discover it."
Not any off the shelf printers but i have one that challenges everything you ever thought.
When patent approved it will get seen. Machining aluminum on a 3d printer has been and can be done with decent accuracy and finish.
Heres a hint only a cartesian and it takes a specialized gantry design and i will leave it at that.
Yes it can be done. Maybe by end of year i can unveil it. Btw its also an FDM and prints PEEK.
If it ever hits the consumer market it wont be cheap. 😊
"Suprisingly OK machine"
OK? The Cr-10 is great!
Thumbs up for Bob!
Hello, Bob.
You don't tell Printy what to be! Printy is free, brave and capable! ..also and printing something nice in my kitchen!
Perfect !
does anyone think it would be worth to make rigid 3d printer? I mean body of 3d printer. It would cost some more but it would be much more rigid and eventually be able to produce better prints. In recent years we have see quite a lot of improvement in software and hot ends but body of most 3d printers remained quite flexible even for expensive printers.
And how is it from CNC to 3D printing? That should be easy, right?
Not really since you'd need to add an extruder motor and hot end. With a 3d printer it's easier to just ignore those for cnc milling
I made one combination machine on my own... it was neither a good CNC nor a good FDM. truth there
what is the disadvantage of a cnc mill to 3d printer conversion?
i just heard disadvantage of the other way around
In part, your mill isn't going to move all that fast compared to a 3d printer. A friend built a fairly beefy mill and attempted to use it as a 3d printer as well. He broke it due to all the high speed moves while using it to print.
A cnc mill is much more expensive for the same build volume and you'll have a hard time building a heated enclosure, those are about the only disadvantages I can think of. Other than that a cnc mill is just straight up better.
Some (but not most) CNCs are too slow for a 3d printer. I guess some rack and pinion routers also have too much backlash to do a good job as well. Avoid those 2 relatively uncommon limitations and you're all set.
The heavier gantry will require a lot more power to move, the build plate has a different concept (smooth and plain vs sacrificial bed or clamps) and the dust left over from a milling operation would kill a 3D print.
Most CNC mill/router, including the cheap chinese 3020 are fast enough, even faster than most cheap 3D printers out there. Speed is definitely not an issue.
that sounds like a challenge
Now a drill/mill on a 3D printer might not be too great becasue of the physical forces that the tool head is exposed to
but if the tool head was a laser cutter that wouldn't be a problem, I can imagine that working out well
maybe milling to a certain thickness of wood, would balance out the rigidity. engraving on a other note would be highly possible on a 3d printer frame.
Well the mostly printed cnc is meant to have interchangeable heads to either mill or 3d print. I'm in the process of making it as has many other people.
Love the subscribe-hint. reminds me of This old Tony..
Might not be related, though .. and Tony is not in 3D-printing, only shows his CNC sometimes, but check that channel nevertheless, the videos are fantastic;)
How are you doing tom
Inertia and rigidity, at odds for the task. You need to trade "Bob" in for a Schaublin 13, my friend.
I don't see how an extremely rigid setup would be detrimental to using it as a 3D printer ? If you had a maximally stiff frame, what's to stop you from switching out the milling head for a hotend ?
I guess the only problem right now is the price point of a very stiff frame - but that was also true for 3D printers in general about a decade ago, and look where we are now - pretty convinced that this is only a matter of having enough demand so large scale production makes it cheap enough to be viable
Did he use Idubbz VS graphic in thia thumbnail?
A bunch of videos over at the BEYOND THE PRESS channel show big, for-real CNC rigs at work in a playful way. These machines weigh several tons and wouldn't even fit in a house, so they're less than optimum for desktop use: czcams.com/video/f21qrFUcfgg/video.htmlm5s
I'm sure thats my DMG 1035 CNC will work fine as a 3D printer x) (150 000€ one but still...)
Hacoulia Specialy if you have liniar motors on XY. If not you surely have 20mm pitch ball screw an ca reach 20000mm/min. For shure it can beat any FDM printer.
Who needs a cooling fan when you have 1000psi TSC
Through-nozzle cooling. Wait, that's an idea. Patenting right now. No steal.
x)
Just the mess alone means most CNC machines need to be in a garage. Besides the mess there are SOME ways around the fact that most home version 3D printers only print in plastic. For the most part anything a CNC machine can do, a 3D printer can do better, even some metal applications (yes really). I think the exception might be heavy duty steel parts but honestly for folks working at home on an average CNC machine, they really aren't going to be making big things anyway and certainly couldn't beat me with a CR-10 in my hands. All in all, CNC's are usless in my garage or 3d printing shop. I am not above making a mess btw I have built and run my own sawmill, so I can appreciate a good mess, but you have to admit 3D printing in your pajamas is better than suiting up for the garage.
Try snapmaker machine...
who is watching from 2020 and checked the date of the video after Thomas sneezed? I did haha
I get why 3d printers don't make great CNC mills. I also get why the sienci(bob) can't be a 3d printer(not enough accuracy). but why on earth can't a proper CNC milling machine also be used as a 3d printer? it has a high enough accuracy(often even a lot more then a 3d printer), it has a REALLY rigid frame, and although it maybe can't accelerate at the speed something like Prusa can, but it would be more than good enough. just use some custom designed electronics, make a hotend assembly that you can fit in the collet(with the nozzle on center, so small rotations don't matter) and a heated bed that bolts down to the table like a mag chuck(for more accurate leveling) or can be clamped in a vise(for ease of use)
Wouldn´t have thought of you as an axcist Tom. Poor A axis must feel left out after not beeing mentioned here. :)
I build one, it can do 3D printing CNC and laser cutting/engraving. The only thing you have to do is swap the tool, takes 2 minutes because of the design. It wil travel max 35mm/s so its not the fastest, but good enough for me :). I am still improving on it but once it is finished I could share the design if anyone is interested
Did I miss some detail? because I don't get why a CNC machine couldn't also be a 3dprinter. I did get why it wouldn't work the other way around.
Juan Sanchez 4 months and no answer yet.
Hi Jaun. The answer is that the larger loads inherent in subtractive machining causes the axes to move necessarily slower than you'd want in 3D printing. While some could be 'dialed up' to move faster the energy required to accelerate and decelerate a printing type operation would be excessive and in-short would thrash a milling type machine.