How Alatreon Divided the Monster Hunter Community | Asmongold Reacts
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2024
- by @ZennyHunter • The fight that divided...
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Indicators for Dragonblight:
1.) Your Hunter has red Lightning arround them
2.) At the top of your health there is a Dragon Symbol (Everybody checks their health after getting hit)
3.) The Colour of the Damage-Numbers when you deal damage changes showing that something is not right
4.) The Handler shouts 24/7 that you have dragonblight
Not noticing THAT is not the games UI-/Design fault but you tunneling to an extreme level.
I just played mhw and noticed my dmg color while fighting ebony odogaron and asked my mhw player friend and he doesn't even know what that means 😭😭😭
So i ended up looking it up
Yea, games like mhw does that to people. A great advice to new players is to just observe the monster mid-fight.
The fact that you noticed that is good though :) @@Ulvorskets
@@Squeekysquid for me, the design i hated the most is how you have to meet the npcs before you know about some features. Im okay if the reward is like additional gadget or smth but i think features should be introduced.
Like asmon, i came from fromsoft games, so naturally i discovered the features early into the game. But one of my friend didn't even know melding and cultivating or even stockpile existed until mid game.
But other than that, i have no problem with the game. I even think that damage bloat is okay since we got def stat. So i expect that it applies on the enemy too. And the unknown calculations just creates a room for even more discovery and i love it so much.
Aside from the actual fighting, building a character has always been my favorite thing to do in every fromsoft games. MHW is just perfect for me and i just wish i knew this game sooner 😔
@@Squeekysquid As someone that didn't initially like monster hunter when I first played it because nothing about it felt intuitive I originally quit. I didn't start playing monster hunter world again until one of my friends got me back into it and he knew a lot about the game which really helped bridge the gap for me. I now love this game but whenever I talk to new players about monster hunter it is always with the caveat that it is not an intuitive game. There will be lots of things in this game that are not explicitly taught to you or are easily missed. Monster hunter is one of those games where I found it is always best to swallow your pride and look up information as it will make the experience more enjoyable when you are not bashing your head into the game when there are mechanics and systems in place that you don't understand.
Ruiner bein gated by MR 100 and Fata or Alatreon being at MR 24 (idk exact) is what caused people to think "ohh no, it's too hard"
lmao yeah. This is the crux of the problem. I think the devs were trolling by setting the entry requirements so low. It should be minimum MR100 and ideally MR150/200 to fight them. It makes no sense that nergi is set at 100. Bet the devs had a good laugh.
@@shivasanjeevmana I think, it's kinda similar in other games too. I recently picked up Rise-Sunbreak. At MR 10, I unlocked Primordial Malzeno and my god I was getting bodied by him in one shot. It was super frustrating. Then someone told me that it's end game Fatalis tier monster. No wonder I was getting one shot with my 700 defence Malzeno Armor.
Yeah, it's due to the post release content updates. They lock the initial, end game content behind an HR wall to incentivize people to keep playing, and when they release the hardest fights in the game they no longer feel like they need to do that so they don't gate it behind a high HR requirement so more people can just jump in. It's stupid IMO, I don't think anything should be gated behind a high HR wall anyway, just make it a normal quest progression and let people tackle things in proper order at their leisure, much more sense this way.
@@RiskOfBaer I get what you are saying but ATV was dropped way post launch (even after fatty if I am not mistaken) and is locked behind MR100. Plus taking on ala and fatty without augments is just asking for a hard time as a new player.
@@bhushan_88 woof, that would have been a rough time with so little defense.
Prep work for most monsters: Optional
Prep work for Alatreon: Mandatory
As it should be for an endgame boss!
Alatreon with prep IS Piss easy. Especially with crit element
Not easy enough for a lot of people I guess. Too hard to use anything other than their 1 raw set I guess.@@amberow9892
@@Rendorina You are very Wrong, to a point I can say you either never played this game, or your first game in the series is World...
So let me explain to you a Core design philosophy from Monster Hunter.
Core design philosophy in Monster Hunter since the first one from 20 years ago, is that firstmost what dictates an outcome is your skill, and what facilitates the outcome is your gear.
A fun fact is that the Souls Franchises which has been HEAVLY influenced by MonHun... also has as this inbuilt in it's design philosophy, what dictates the outcome is your skill, your gear and levels in those games are facilitators.
Basically what this means is technically you could beat most of these games with starter gear,
Monster Hunter is kind of has a little bit of a restriction on that because at some point time limit will refrain you from doing it so, but given the limitations it's possible to beat game all Gen 1~4 Games with low rank gear and you could even disregard elements.
The only exception to this in 20 years is in fact: Alatreon from World.
Alatreon from World is the single encounter in the entire franchise, Spin-off and Main games, that have a mechanic that introduces a gear requirement.
All other DPS checks (Sieges and Magdala) are designed with a wide damage range in mind, World Alatreon isn't unless you cheese the shit out of it (but that should not count).
So when your gear is dictating the outcome of the fight before your skill even is a factor, the design of the encounter goes against what this franchise entails.
@@raphaelmerino100my guy. Easiest counter point in the world. You can beat him with raw.
I’ve done it, there’s entire videos of people doing it (I’m talking first kills, non speed runners people just legitimately improving and downing him with raw).
Besides 99% of the entire player base will never attempt naked runs they’ll be using appropriate gear. Gear that you can in fact down alatreon with.
It’s absolutely hilarious to me that people don’t understand that enough skill makes his dps check extremely easy or downright skippable.
The only real point you can make is that you’ll need to use carts to beat him using raw, and of course beating him raw is only really double in solo.
Genuinely learning his move set and learning when you can take advantage of his openings will make the dps check happen on its own and if you aren’t carting to his usual move set then carts on judgment become just another resource. That’s how you down it with raw but you can literally take that same practise with elements and ignore the horn and still beat him.
Want to know what really fails the hunt for the vast majority of people? It’s the carts that happen to non judgments or players simple playing so so passive they never engage.
One thing these people don't mention is that alatreon unlocks waaay too early and lets beginners join in not knowing the hell waiting for them, alatreon asks you not just skill but also elemental gear, solid armor, good knowledge of monster movements and game mechanics and solid amount of resources because u will loose like 50% if you never fought him before
It's pretty much straightforward for elemental gear tho, velkhana>alatreon>fatalis. Plus if they have to unlock to MR 90 to be able to fight something like Golden and Silver Rath I'm pretty sure normal people would quit because they beat the main story long before that
Well, it does seem like he requires a lot better gear cos he hits a lot harder than the previous monsters, same with Fatalis who can one shot people even in something like brachy gear.
While having good gear helps it's not that bad for someone coming into the game new. I know that when he first released most players already had their silverlos sets, kjarr and/or safi weapons which in all fairness made him way easier. However, I've been playing through the game again and by the time you get to alatreon you have raging brachy so you can easily do what I did which was to slap together a 2 piece brachy, 3 piece teo set, and then got myself a frostfang barioth weapon. I grabbed the longsword since it's usually my comfort pick and I got very used to fighting him with LS in the past... With just the longsword, no elemental decos, no crit element, just a raw set and a good ice weapon I cleared him on my 2nd or 3rd try... It was just a matter of getting used to him again since I hadn't fought him in like 3 years, also I had been using swaxe the whole playthrough so I also had to get used to LS again.
Point is that even though he is mr24 and it's weird to fight him before silverlos or angy nerg you definitely have the gear you need available... Kjarr weapons, or frostfang, usj event can even get you true crit element, normal crit element comes from velk, safi armor and weapons are fantastic, an elemental safi weapon with velk divinity and 4 piece safi armor +1 piece velk will make alatreon into a joke. And you can always do what I did or even go in with a raw set and just eat a cart or two...
Think it's way diferent for somoene that knows what they are doing. Others will probably not know what is good to farm at that point.@@Kriss_941
is new daora worse than old gen? like fu?
As a long-time Monster Hunter player, it's always interesting to see the varying perspectives
When I first beat Alatreon, I used Dragon element, because in the journal it says it has 1 star weakness to dragon in both fire and ice phases, and 2 star weakness in dragon phase, at no point is it immune to dragon unlike ice or fire, sure it has more weakness to ice while in fire and more weakness to fire while in ice, but your effectiveness window is much larger with dragon element. Always worked like a charm. Reading, and critically thinking isn't very strong today though.
@@Themightyfrogg I still think that the dragon element is the best way to defeat Alatreon. You don't have to rely on breaking the head and can focus on other parts of the body.
I personally prefer to use a bow to shoot at the tail because it has a large surface area.
Alatreon was the best boss they ever made before Fatalis and i played all of 4U and double cross.
@@markusbauer614Its just way worse dmg wise and with topple/clagger you can easily down him to get on the horns which arent that hard to break in single player either. Dragon element is if you are lazy and you fail the elemental check in the first phase which lets you get it in the 2nd
@@ThemightyfroggDragon element does f all damage to his elemental thresholds though. Unless you have an ice or fire meowlotov palico perhaps
Some people being mad that an endgame boss is hard will always be funny to me
It's not that the boss is hard it's the fact that it has an annoying mechanism that makes it not so fun.
Did you even watch the video bruh? Nobody complains about it being hard, they complain because it has annoying gimmicks.
@@solcreed10 You can literally fully ignore the mechanic and still win once you know how to fight it.
While that can be used against Alatreon, in my opinion it also speaks for it. Follow the simple mechanic and you will have a much easier fight. Ignore it and you just need to kill him at a regular pace.
Easy is relative of course, since he is hard beyond that mechanic - but still.
People saying they've killed alatreon without elemental stuff is actually sending me because you CAN brute force it, you just gotta be good enough or something??? What???
@@solcreed10 the unique mech for alatreon suits well. It's the only boss that has all elements, based on your comment looks like ur a DS enjoyer where u want only to dodge and attack the boss until it's dead. :)
Thank you so much for watching my video with your community Asmon, It's always great to get new perspectives on conversations like this. I look forward to watching your first kill on him :)
I feel like you're very underrated
Hey I watched your video a week ago
Btw the mh community seems to only like mh so don't be discouraged by views on other videos they're good too👍😃
@@oogabooga1228 To be honest I upload every video with 0 expectation of views, I'm just trying to upload good content that I would enjoy watching - views are just a bi product of that for me
@@Timothy1717 This was only my third video so I still have a lot of improvements to make, i'm glad you enjoyed it though :)
dragon blight does show on your hunter when afflicted - you'll see it as a dark mist that periodically flashes on your hunter with little red lightning effects. Asmon just doesn't see it when his hunter gets afflicted with it
one little tip - just learn the debuffs only. you don't have to worry about knowing the good buffs (just know they're good) but do take note on what all the debuffs do as there aren't a whole lot of them and each monster only has a handful you'll have to worry about (unless you have skills that nullify them)
The visual effect for Dragonblight is very hard to see in the Alatreon arena. It's dark-red lighting in a dark-red arena. I think missing the visual cue is perfectly understandable for someone who doesn't know.
@@TheTexasDice i kinda get that but the damage numbers also change colour to reflect the fact you have dragon blight. Asmon not seeing it is understandable considering he is streaming/trying to entertain while playing the game and ... well he is kinda stubborn about not wanting to read directions; instead opting to learn by doing.
You can also see the damage numbers get a blue edge effect around them, that's also an indication of Dragonblight.
I miss the debuff where the game turns you into a snowman
For a guy who says he always wants to see the biggest numbers, he doesn’t care to ask “why are my numbers lower and blue”.
Most people in Multiplayer hunts, never cure their dragonblight, so i run wide-range maxed to counter this
I run wide range for everything in multiplayer hunts.
true, cant trust em xD@@SRFAA
That's because people don't interact with the mechanic. they just straight ignore it.
@@kylemenos I dont want to deal with the blight so I go 3 blight resist 😂
This is the way @@shutup1037
I remember back in the OLD days the strategy to kill Alatreon was literally "4 dudes with sleep weapons and bombs", it was the most efficient strategy ever.
Ngl the mental hoops to consider blast light as an elemental effect is dumb
the way he explained it makes it seem mental gymnastics but the gist of it is simple, its a number with an icon on the weapon info that looks the same as any other element, and the "status proc" is a fiery explosion. one would look at it and assume its fire damage.
No bro you don't understand. His brain is too logical
@@Kotoy1 but sleep and paralisys too are an icon on the weapon, there is whole ass manual you can check, if there is a fire element why blast would be a thing?
@@typhoon4994 that's why people that are watching his content should take 65% of what he says with a grain of salt.
Lol for real. He sounded dumb af
Alatreon was hated sooo much because most players damage builds couldn’t cut and they had to come up with a new build that no other monster required them to do. After my 4th time I grinded Taroth and went with an elemental crit build with the LBG and beat it solo. There is an issue when it comes to challenging players you either have players who learn and adapt or you’ll get players who refuse to get better and want an easy out.
The boss dropped quite late after the expansion and after Safi as well, there was plenty of time to farm that boss then this fight would have been a fraction of the difficulty. Safu weps and armour were incredibly broken, i dont know why anyone is complaining like it was a herculean task to just farm a monster 2 or 3 times
@@schweizer33012 or 3 hunts? Man, ur luck must be extremely high. I honestly can't remember a time it didn't take at least 7 to 8 hunts to hopefully finish an armor set. I don't mean this to be insulting or say this sarcastically, but ur luck is insane to me. Or my luck is just that poor.
@@yo_greasy6745If your group breaks parts, then yes, u can get the armor set pretty quickly.
Yup, people were mad their "comfy" full crit full attack boost wex 3 destroyer 3 builds were getting wrecked and they refused to change or adapt to the fight. My first few attempts I tried full crit elemental builds then decided to change it up and actually take my time with the fight and beat it first try with dragon element. Now my friend and I duo it elementless, learning the fight (and reaching dps check) is just a lot harder when you cant take more than one hit.
On the topic of Blast as an element. Blast was originally Slime in 3U exclusive to Brachydios it was a brand new mechanic and broken. It got changed to Blast status in 4th gen and added to pre-existing monsters that already had fire explosions such as Teostra while others still had the explosion without the Blast status like the Raths. Then there's also new monsters that came later like Bazelgeuse were all of his exploding eggs cause fire blight same with Glavenus spittinghis molten slag. There's also other monsters that have element explosions Savage Deviljho's dragon breath nuke, most of Safi'jiva's attacks, Namielle's water thunder combo steam explosions, and Shara creating the air explosions. And then there's Fatalis and Alatreon having fire explosions alongside their regular fire attacks with Alatreon also able to cause his ice pillars to explode if his dragon attacks contact them.
In short there's plenty of examples of monsters causing explosions with their element attacks. Now give us Element shelling already Capcom there's no excuse for Gunlance shelling to be locked to dealing fire damage.
Exactly! Blast can and should be an element, as mostly kinetic energy. The blight is a delayed concussive blast and that's how Brachydios slime work. Lore wise we're not at that state yet because it was newly discovered but in Wilds it may become one since he recently got raging slime to study.
Interesting idea on the gunlance elemental shellings. I guess if the switch axe can have elemental explosions there's no reason why the gunlance couldn't have them too.
@Xainfinen I think the reason for making blast a status ailment rather than an element is balance. Elemental damage procs on every hit, while status ailments build up to a proc and then reset with increased resistance. I think the blast proc is 250 dmg. Imagine that proccing with every hit 💀
I never played that DS game where blast was introduced, but I think back then it worked as an element and was absolutely broken. The devs learned and balanced it, it seems.
@@HarfelJYep, I think that as well. I had the same understanding as Asmon and initially thought that Blast was an element but then when I thought a little more about it.
Keibi bow was so broken
Actually its not locked to fire damage. Shelling damage is technically "pure" or "true". Like with sticky, it's a fixed value regardless of which part of the monster its hitting (though some monsters, like Safi, have an inherent full-body resistance to that damage). It does not scale with anything other than the weapon's raw attack value or the Artillery skill.
Blast blight started with slimeblight which is exclusive to Brachy in 3U.
Imagine if they just stuck with calling it slimeblight. But I get why the didn’t, since it was better as a mechanic to add with other monsters. I love Teostra’s CB.
Still, it’d be cool for the hunter to have a similar slime effect of residue that are delayed explosions on the ground like Brachy’s attacks.
The main reason ppl hated alatreon when they first came out was because blast was meta at the time and near nobody had elemental builds so ppl were mad that they had to build element builds from scratch, and in group hunts the team would get wiped and lose since half or all of the team was using blast builds at the time
Thank you, so many people are upset that these new blast and raw build damage sets suddenly wouldn't work on this new thing, and they got super pissy about it.
Ive been using bow and dual blade since base game and i was like how come this become a problem that rip the community apart? 😂
@@vasilias7987 because people are lazy
Absolutely have no problems with alatreon because I mainly using Gunners weapon so just need a bowgun that can carry the 2 star element weakness and add elemental charm for both elements, for first cleared after I got enough parts for his bowgun oh yea it's time to abuse it
@@NeocrimsonX no, its because its opposite the design of every other monster in the game and most weapons were nerfed so hard ele damage wise in world that it wasnt worth building around them until you were forced to for a gimmick fight.
Veterans players tend to forget that when we were freaking new players we did most or all the mistakes asmond made in this playthorugh and or had to watch hohrs of videos explaining the mechanics of the game or several more hours learning by ourself.
I have 900h playing this game. Im even surprised o jave played this long. When Alatreon came out i was there at that instant and i played 20+ runs everyone failing because nobody knew at the beggining all the intricasirs of the fight. We learned all the mechanics at the 5th or something attemp and even changing to a suboptimal elemental build it was still hard AF.
But we never hated the boss or the mechanic. We adapted, farmed better and learned his moves ultimately beating him. I freaking love this fight and conquering was a bliss of a reward.
The mindset of getting better is a better mindset than getting better gear. But it's actually really fun, and part of monster hunter's original design to have you gather lots of weapons and gear for different situations. It can be really fun and satisfying to do that. It was less of a thing, and not something I did at all in World, but it's a big part of the older games.
Honestly if World did that, it'd be pretty cool
Gear doesn't make you win anything in Monster Hunter, especially when we're talking about those later fight. MH is a game of pure skill, gear only serves to make you win harder. And look cool while doing it.
No, Monster Hunter's original design is the ABILITY to gather lots of weapons and gear. Not the ENFORCEMENT to do so.
I killed it 6 times btw and I still hate Alatreon. The gimmick is bad.
@@RiskOfBaerthis guy….we have gear because it helps fights. In MH skills and defense are tied to gear. The reason we don’t have a bunch of people running naked and just using layered armor is because that gear is essential. It isn’t looks. It serves a purpose. Its purpose is to aid skill.
@@chalnervassor9430 the EXACT same can be said about Elden Ring , and yet you have people running around naked with a pot on their head ready to fight Malena
As someone who considers Alatreon to be one of my favorite fights, it is purely incidental because one of my favorite weapons (bow) is really effective and reliant on elemental damage. The reason that I personally would otherwise hate Alatreon is because its elemental dps check instantly invalidates many other builds and playstyles, many of which I'd otherwise enjoy playing. My first kill on Alatreon (solo) was just over 30 minutes, and in no way did it feel repetitive because of how stimulating I found its moveset to be. Very well telegraphed, a lot of visual clarity, and a lot of difficulty (relative to the rest of the game) is what made this fight so engaging. Monster Hunter's combat is the sole and only reason I am in love with the games - everything else comes secondary. And let me emphasize, Alatreon makes use of that combat very well.
I could go on even further to say that I prefer Alatreon to Fatalis, and the one and only reason for this is, is because Fatalis has a 30 minute timer rather than a 50 minute timer, thus making it a glorified DPS check, one that I have found to be much harder to meet without the use of the siege weapons laying around (just my personal experience), things that I refuse to engage with because I feel it undermines the purity of the "duel" and its combat (this is a personal problem, and you are not expected to have this limitation). To this day I have not beaten Fatalis, though I have come very close. Mind you I am also using armor that is not fully upgraded because grinding tempered elders in the guiding lands just for the sake of upgrading feels invalidating of the experience and thus feels really tedious, so I'm basically playing "don't ever get hit or you die", but even so, this is completely fine by me. My only problem is with the timer.
This egotistical mindset of "people don't like this because it's hard" comes up time and time again, and you'll see it obnoxiously within communities such as Dark Souls where no one will ever be willing to have a proper discussion about why things are the way they are, and what people actually find to be fun and engaging about an encounter.
The one thing I will say is that people review bombing because they don't like one encounter in a frankly massive game that is generally of successful quality are just as obnoxious and immature. Agree or don't.
As someone who loves fatalis and hates alatreons judgement (not his moves just the check) I agree along with what you also said about the grinding lands, love the area, hate what it's used for. And also still agree on dark souls
all my favourite builds are raw damage be it with great sword, swaxe or charge blade so I was pretty annoyed when I realised my playstyles were useless in this fight and I would have to farm up a new build just to play in a style I don't like all so I have a chance of beating the fight.
thankfully now that I have fatalis gear I can just out DPS alatreon even without elemental damage and I enjoy the fight way more.
Every build I enjoy is invalidated by this fight, and having to grind up new gear in the grinding lands was too much for me. I'm not changing my entire play style for one boss... that's like, 40 hours of grinding a gear set and skills I don't enjoy just for one fight. I still have a positive review of the game of course because it is just one boss in an otherwise incredible 200+ hours (everything pre-Grinding Lands).
* EDIT * I'm starting to question everyones comprehensive skills on this post and the MH community.
1) In case you didn't realize, I'm in favor of people using defensive skills and quality of life skills (earplugs, flinch free, etc) because not all of us players are TDS levels good and can just avoid taking damage.
2) I'm against forcing or convincing new players that they MUST play the best offensive builds. Defense and health is very useful to players still learning attack patterns or not wanting to cart as often.
3) The Meta is only for experienced players, you don't have to do what everyone else does. And the losers who say git gud and fan boys are probably the toxic losers @TheTexasDice was talking about.
0:39 - 0:56 Yes, as a VETERAN Hunter, worrying less about defense and maxing damage is the main goal. As a NEW or NOVICE Hunter, you can't learn how to avoid the attacks if the monster 1-2 shots you. Higher defense allows 1-2 more hits, more chances to heal, less carting, more time figuring out the monster.
So yes Asmon, you SHOULD worry about gear, until you master the monsters movements.
I disagree with this. Before monster hunter world, it was completely okay to run around with maximum Earplugs if it made the game more fun for you. But ever since World, the "attack boost 7 + WExploit 3 + Critboost 3 + Agitator 7 + Critical Eye 7"-minmaxer are just bullying you into playing the same way they do or you get kicked off the lobby.
And Iceborne for some reason rewarded this disgusting behavior.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong using defensive skills like Divine Blessing, Health or even Defense Up while being new on MH, but even all players - veterans included - should max their base armor defense.
That being said, Health Boost 3 should be mandatory for most players at least and you can max up Divine Blessing with the Fatalis set for a more comfy play end game.
Or just do both. Divine with offense skills=defense with DPS.
I mean I don't think that's a good argument against alatreon. Especially since he's an update monster in a master rank expansion. If you get to him you aren't a novice hunter, you're barely a new hunter. Like he was the second to last monster added no shit he'd be strong. That's like saying the risen elders are too strong and are bad because they're too hard for novice hunters. Nevermind that it takes like 100 hours to get to them.
@@TheTexasDice In 500 hours of playing this game (on PC) I have literally never seen anybody kick another person because they weren't running a meta DPS set. Stop making up straw man arguments, this is not an issue. And if you personally feel like you need to do that, that's your own problem. I ran utility armor sets with evade extender, evasion, earplugs, healthoost, and limited offense skills. And I still topped the DPS charts in 9/10 hunts with my Hammer. Get good.
It is still impressive how Asmon got this far without utilizing the main gimmik from Iceborne - the clutch claw. But the Dragonblight thing is a matter to adress. It's the dragon claw ontop of the health bar (also the NPCs are shouting at you once you have it).
Bro has also never used a Slinger pod or Flash pod in his life. The guy does reverse learning, if he can 40 minute a monster then he doesn't need to learn, only when he reaches a wall does he do the bare minimum learning depending on how strong his ego is feeling that day.
To be fair, Asmon doesn't play much coop in this game to notice people that use clutch claw effectively
@@Insanity2thePrawncoz he literally plays like an old school MH player. no gimmicks just straight up attacking until the monster dies, I remember being shamed online in MHFU coz I used a flashbomb.
Alatreon in world is the only monster in all of MH games that has a DPS check, and the only monster that forces you to learn the new mechanics or lose.
coz lets be honest clutch claw, flashbomb, wallbang etc makes the hunt easier but they're optional. You can finish a hunt without using them, the hunt will be longer but it can be done.
@@RipCord1995Yeah, vigorwasps up the ass and rocksteady mantle, so old school LMAO
@@RipCord1995 It's the only monster that forces a dps check because everything else hits like a wet noodle if you don't have absolute trash gear. Theoretically there are loads of types of dps checks like nergis regrowth plates, velkhanas ice armor or Kirins charge where you are supposed to Elderseal it or get peppered with stronger attacks but those "strong" attacks are some really weak punishments, except for Alatreon who just straight-up kills you. If the game had a smoother difficulty curve that isn't just one or two massive peaks at the end it would work way better.
I had no idea some people hated Alatreon. His movement is really well telegraphed and fair, with generous openings if you figured out the fight.
In my 3k plus hours of Iceborne, i spent just as much time doing nothing as i did hunting. And that included looking at random people's builds in the lobbies i was in. They hated Alatreon because people are lazy af. That's the bottom line. Learning a monster's moves is one thing.. they don't even learn what the skills do. They do no research whatsoever and have terrible builds. They did not want to learn why they got stomped. They'd rather do the easier thing and cry about it.
@@Raptchurfacts when I saw the MR300 who couldn't take on alatreon and meanwhile had level 3 crit boost and like 8 levels in random elemental attack skills on a weapon with 0 affinity and no affinity from other skills like the amount of random/trash builds people make is wild
@@Raptchurjust a disclaimer, I'm not one of the "meta set" assholes since I think whatevers meta is whatever you can finish the hunt with, I just think people should use skills that make sense and actually put in some effort to make a set
elemental damage is not balanced properly and it forces people into weapon classes they don't want to use. Thats the main problem people have with him. It forces them out of their favourite weapons.
I don't hate altreon but I just keep wondering if his fight would be better without the damage check.
Same as I like Iceborne but I wish so many fights weren't balanced around clutch claw. I liked the idea around clutch claw but it was really clunky and I didn't like that some fights pretty much forced me to use it. (Also using it with "light"weapons which require you to use it twice on the same part feels awful)
Asmongold ignoring the entire ingame Monster Hunting MANUAL is just peak Asmon XD
To be fair I ignored it too because it's not very useful. Rise has a significantly more useful hunter journal with drop rates and hitzones values so I used that one way more.
@@ianhur MHW's Journal also has drop rates
and also has hitzone info....
@@ianhur i agree with u there for hitzone values not u showing on mhw manual still useful to players like asmon to know what element or ailment to use on a monster
Then blames it on the VIDEO GAME being illogical. A game that has fucking dragons in it.
He just wasn't prepared and thats really that.
Alatreon forces the player to learn the advanced game mechanics. You can play 90% of the game with raw weapons. Not understanding the difference between elements and status, not knowing blights and debuffs, never using a nullberry. But once you hit the Alatreon wall its time to read hunter notes, learn the rules and get the right gear. Its a good wall. Its a good boss.
That's one of the reasons I like this fight so much. It's an actual test for both your skill and understanding of game mechanics, an exam if you will. My main issue is that it is basically the second to last fight in then game (depending on your progression), it is WAY TOO LATE! The game should throw something like this at you in the middle of High Rank, not at the end of G/Master Rank... One of the unfortunate side effects of them trying to make the game accessible to a wider audience.
Yeah well I knew all of this yet I couldn't beat it with my hammer, I had velkhana hammer and I couldn't get the elemental topple, I would break his horns all the time, I could damage it a lot but I just couldn't get the threshold, died to it sm that I crafted his weapons before I ever killed it
I love the fight I just hate how stupid the elemental mechanic is
Especially to me who started in world and wasn't as good
Idc how easy it's for you veterans who have 5k h in every mh game for me anjanah was hard when I got to it, barioth was hard, velkhana was hard
So alatreon was extremely annoying because I knew everything but I still couldn't beat it with my hammer
I could dodge most his attacks but I still lost
To me it's a badly designed mechanic on an amazing fight
And yes I killed it solo later and yes I have dozens of kills
And yes it's fun
And yes it's mechanic is bad (besides the horn break thing that's actually cool)
When people say this its like they forget gs is the second most played weapon
That's fucking horrible design. "ignore this mechanic for the entire game then sometime during Master Rank's endgame it finally forces you to completely 180 and make use of elements, then you go back to not giving a shit afterwards"
@@StormierNik
Get good
Having the mindset of just getting better is absolutely a good thing. It’s just the fact that gear can be such a multiplier to your skill. You can quite literally use a hammer against every nail and screw in the game- even Alatreon, but you still had to be good enough to brute force raw or call people in to help that could compensate.
It’s an actual endgame fight at the end of the game’s release cycle. The only real problem was that it should have probably required higher MR
As someone thats played these games since the get go, i am soooo happy that the series finally got the mainstream love it deserves and now i just cant wait for MH Wilds, that game is going to be special
I wound up brute forcing this guy with a dragon element glaive. This fight was nuts! That said, it was worth it as the follow up, fatalis was incredible
I do see the point about Blastblight and Fireblight look familiar. Monsters with blastblight sort of sometime come together with fireblight like Dodogama, Teostra, and both thing can be cured by spam dodging or use nullberry.
Similiar thing to Thunderblight with Paralysis from Kirin, Fulgur Anjanath, and Tobi-Kadachi.
But I also see some monsters with Blastblight or Paralysis without Fire or Thunder, like Great Girros and Brachydios.
My thought on why they separate it is poison, paralysis, blast felt more like some sort of toxin injected or slimy substance that unnaturally attached on players, sort of like chemical reactions than relying on mass attack like fire, water, thunder, and ice.
Aliments often came from monster bite, slime, or mucus, than pure elemental attacks.
Kirin use it horn to inject paralysis, Tobi use bite, Brachy and Dodo use slimy substance acting as a time bomb.
Like grenade with shapnel, blastblight might be using some sort of extremely hot airblast, enough for making spark and smoke but can't set thing on fire easily.
Stun is more related to how body react, nothing to do with element, like get hit very hard or blind from flash by Tzi-Tzi Yaku.
For Teostra it could be the gunpowder or some sort of pheromone thing.
I carted 50 times and learn it's moveset til I killed Alatreon. It took me 1 day only. The feeling I get when I have jerky when it use escaton and it's element weakened is the best feeling like "proof of hero" playing in a background when battling fatalis in weakened state. In short trying and trying and researching is the best way to finish the game if your a newbie.
4:13 deviljho has entered the region
0:38 I love how he describes exactly why his fans get so frustrated with him 😂
I beat this monster alone and with others and I still hate the gimmicks
agree lol it’s just the dumb dps check but alatreon design and moves is cool asf
@@quentinb734don't know why it's hard for people to listen when we say escaton judgement itself (and the farming even if it's fast) is the problem not the rest of alatreon moveset
@14:00 Asmon if you watch your Character every debuff has a visual effect, Lightning Blight you spark with electricity, Ice Blight you have a cold aura on you, Water Blight you are dripping wet, Blast Blight you have a Powdery Effect that changes color, DRAGON BLIGHT is a red and black lightning aura like a Super Saiyan!
The icons up top have a red outline if its a debuff as well
I think the problem imo (as a new hunter, World was my first), was Alatreon felt like it took your agency away. There is no hunt, no environment (other than the wall), you’re just plopped in an arena and told “no you’re going to use THIS gear and you’re going to play THIS way. Or stop playing scrub.” I know that isn’t everyone’s experience and Alatreon is totally beatable, it just felt like it flew in the face of everything people liked about the game. Just a thought
100% This. I beat him solo, but I wasn't happy about it. In fact, when it was all over I quit the game with the intention to come back, but... it just left a bitter taste in my mouth... I want to be able to win with the playstyle I find fun. I want to be able to break the parts of the monster I choose, to target the drops I want... Going exclusively for the head in a do or die mad dash was just... exhausting...
Challenging? Yes. Fun? No.
Also they had to ruin a great monster. A lot of old players (me included) were hyped when they announced his return, and disappointed when we didn't get to fight Alatreon but a flying gimmick with his skin
There’s already quite a few monsters that do this. Safi, Kulve, Ala, Fatalis, Shara, Xeno, and every arena quest monster. It is not a new concept. There are more in the other games too.
Most people have the monster researched already so the hunt part is really only relevant the first couple times.
The environment is a sad loss, but again it isn’t always useful or even present. Half the high-end fights don’t have relevant environmental tricks around them.
@@mrsanguini5819 yep, he always has been fought in an arena anyway, that's why the biggest problem is that it makes 85 to 100% of the gear you own useless and forces you to play a certain weapon in a certain way. Which is something he's the only one to do.
@@benkai9921 A certain weapon? You can play with any weapon. And so long as you’re aggressive enough with the elemental, you can play it any way. Some people even got the dps check with snowballs.
So unless the gear you’re talking about has no free gem slots, your gear isn’t useless. Just slot in element attack jewels. As for the weapon, it has to be element if you don’t want unavoidable carts, but that’s as far as the strictness goes.
There is an argument to be made that a pug group for this fight makes it harder. Especially if you use long sword. Plus. Alatreon moves from target to target fairly quick and out ranging you a ton, thus decreasing your dps by a huge margin. This boss is easier solo, depending on your weapon.
Agreed on the uptime in pugs, usually makes it harder to help ppl that run away too much. Especially as he doesn't have that many targeted attacks that dont lock him in place. Havent played ls a whole lot but i guess it's just as bad as gs.
If you ever look at the Hunter's Notes option in your menu it does tell you that status and element are different because it separates them in the weakness tab.
Right? I usually share the same views as Asmon but he just is making excuses here for not being prepared. I have the same amount of playtime as him in the game I could spot the mistakes and the issues he was having and im yet to even fight the boss.
@@MrWiggz69 You guys don´t get it. The real problem isn´t that the game doesn´t tell you that they are seperate things, them being seperate things to begin with in the case of blast damage is the real problem.
@@chrisdivodi9291 Ok disregarding the fact that it always hits for the same damage number regardless of how resistant or weak a monster is to fire I gotta ask, if you could only deal fire damage infrequently from blastblight would you think that's enough to hit an elemental dps check? Consider that every time you see the explosion it takes longer for the next explosion to apply.
@@chrisdivodi9291 It really wouldn't be a problem at all if he had looked even once in the hunter's notes
@@noelci8846 You just don´t get his problem with blast. It´s hella unintuitive.
Do you have to take a look into an RPG´s manual to see if a Wizard throwing a fireball at a monster is considered magical fire damage?
every time alatreon hits players with any physical attack itll have dragonblight except elements, also after your first hit by dragon blight handler will tell. for the indicators there is a purple trident above the healthbar, there is a black lightning around the player and your damage numbers are blue
Most physical attacks but not all iirc. Like the charge; claw and horn attacks, yes, but they show dragon aura. But tail hit etc, no, if i'm correct.
The complaints are about being forced to change style to very specific one to beat the boss. For example I use mostly gunlance, normally 50/50 between melee damage and explosions; and elemental is not even a factor in the build. To beat Alatreon I have to switch fighting style to just using melee attacks, and switch out all of my gear boosting explosive damage in favour of elements.
Meta for most weapon types in MHW is using raw damage, so almost everyone has to do some switch of their gear and style.
You can kill alatreon with raw before he kills you 3 times.
Alatreon came after Safi didn't it? Safi made elem builds viable...
@@automato436 Safi (at the time) was a multiplayer-exclusive RNG raid boss. You can imagine that solo players had no desire to interact with the Siege and Safi.
18:52 now he'd be right if the entire Large Monster Field Guide didn't exist, AND lists blast as an ailment and not an element
imma be real and not memey for a second, i really think he has never opened the hunter's notes, maybe he opened once and then never again which sucks coz it really helps when u are like mid base game and elements builds are more reliable.
Not to mention that the game gave him a popup before he faced Alatreon saying blast weapons wouldn't work😂.
For a new player, the field guide isn’t a thought especially when you can go the majority of the game without ever looking at it or even using the optimal ‘ele/ail’ gear - after 400 hours of playing, I’ve maybe looked through the guide less than 10 times. I probably played 100 hours without ever looking at it or acknowledging its existence. Yes, now its second nature to look up a monster, see what breaks, what its vulnerable to, etc … but that’s not something you naturally learn in the game other than them telling you once when you’re first learning.
On the other hand... what you see all the time when looking at the equipment info is
Element : Blast
or Element : Poison
So it is confusing and not intuitive for somebody who doesnt read the notes... which is completely fine tho...
@@button9 That's fine good for you, but this is a guy who has NEVER used his Slinger or launched a monster into the wall, who doesn't bother checking his hunting notes or doing optional quests or even getting better gear. Asmon is the meme of "this is fine" until charging headlong at the problem results in "I've done the same thing I'm always doing and it's not working I don't understand and I don't want to bother to learn."
Monster hunter games will always be about knowing the monster and preparing for those fights, the fun comes from creating new sets for certain monster, finding weapon class that counters them, and gathering lots of consumables.
Tbh I have fun when I struggle on my first try taking way too long with a suboptimal set. I tried to no element him but I genuinely think it's impossible without:
-already having his set pieces
-crazy max upgraded safi/kulve weapons
-insane decos
-potentially ledge cheesing
-clutch claw
-carting twice (lol)
None of the above were true in my case and I couldn't kill him. That's the only canon monster who shits on my fun this way... Big sad😢
maybe pre mr100 I feel like switching gear after is just obnoxious unless you are transitioning into fatalis
Its normal if you mained a weapon that doesn't care about elements to be confused at alatreon. If you ran an element weapon before you are used to crafting multiple sets a d how to deal your damage. Like, a bow or a db main are very much aware how bad dravonblight is for them., but a greatsword main has never had that issue before.
Gs is also the most or second most played weapon in the game
And also a good weapon against alatreon if you just learn to build correctly.@@markjack9772
@@markjack9772 no it doesn’t, afaik for world and iceborne the top 3 was Longsword, dual blade and charge blade
@@Nelvin931217 if you talk to First Wyverian, GS is 2nd place. Charge blade is 5th.
@@markjack9772 pretty sure thats not true. Nr1 is also 100% ls.
Even so... How does that matter for what i said?
So this fight is mechanic heavy but you players are saying you can beat it without using all the mechanics?
What're we mad at then?
You can legit beat him without using any mechanic. But unlike bald man, most people don't even know that this boss have mechanic and being salty about it
yes, as long as a player deal enough damage and don't die to his normal attacks, a player can actually ignore every mechanics. Just eat the ultimate and go back in, they'll have around 21 or 28 minutes(with F.insurance) to fight which is more than enough. Which mean the people who complained about mechanics are not only refuse to learn the mechanics but also the lack the actual skill too.
There's a good chunk of players that brute forced Alatreon with raw weapon and we don't get to hear what their opinion because they didn't bitch about it.
@@ThePaoReturn true, i did it once for fun with GS and yes I do had to cart like twice (or was it thrice bcs i still have insurance) but i still manage to beat it. Bless fortify skill.
and I've seen a lot of Raw builds showcase can kill it either before or after first escaton.
people who beat him without mechanics, prob have gear from fatalis, a monster that requires you to beat alatreon to get to.( possible if their online team was really cracked, that even if one or two players did not contribute to element, they still made it) Or they have fought alatreon like 300+ times or somthing and can make some mythical perfect fight with trash gear.( but then they would know the mechanic already)
@@jeremycu4571I’ve beaten alatreon to challenge myself using pre fatty gear with sns and downed him with only two carts using safi blast sns.
It really was not that bad and there’s a video made by another creator not to long ago you can probably search up where he wanted to grind a raw kill on alatreon and was successful.
It’s as the first comments says, as long as you learn the fight and don’t cart to anything except judgments you really do have enough time to allow you down him whilst ignoring the mechanics.
Obviously only attempt this in solo lol.
I don't like dps boss checks simply because I love to do attrition builds and outlast my enemies. This kind of defeats a Uber defense type build
That was the point of Alatreon. The challenge is specifically to push back against people who actively played it safe, it was a perfected counter to this playstyle so hard that the community flat out asked for a change, because that's how 90% of the players got through the fights. Playing tactfully is fine, but you set yourself up for an effortless failure in this fight.
The REAL crime is forcing all of that on the players and giving us dogshit armor set for the effort
I strongly recommend using blight res 3 for this hunt. Being dragonblighted is essentially a cart if you cannot cure it in time, but other blights like ice can also be detrimental in the run.
Equip a weapon with as much elemental damage as you can find. Frostfang barioth would be a great one for ice. Have your palico equip gear that has ice damage too (e.g. shrieking legiana)
Velkhana (4) is great for greatsword, but other faster weapons only need velkhana (2) and then anything else that gives criteye/WExploit and elemental damage.
Blast was originally Slime. It was it's own thing until people complained that they make it a status since it has the same build up mechanic.
That's why it's listed as a status type now. Making it a elemental bight doesn't fit its mechanics because it has to *build up*. All the other elemental buffs are instant damage effects.
the problem is how elemental damage and especially how elemental motion values were implemented in world for slow weapons (it's fixed in mhsb now)
that's why it divided the community because if you were lucky, your weapon would be already doing enough elemental damage with the appropriate build
if not you'd have to cheese the fight by speedruining using fortify and feline insurance, dying purposefully at the escaton to come back with more dmg
They gave elemental damage multipliers to all the weapons that struggled with element in this fight. The devs already catered to this problem.
@@mrsanguini5819 if you are talking about the topple threshold those were never adjusted after release IIRC and the values for hammer is the same as LS/HH/Lance/CB both in multiplier and threshold values
and you probably already know how considerably slower hammer is in comparison to those
@@uwyphi That’s true, but doesn’t it stand to reason that weapons with better elemental output will do better on an element-based fight?
Complaining about that would be like complaining that all weapons should have the same amount of elemental damage output. It’s just not so. Some weapons have more, some have less, just like how some weapons have better raw dps than others.
At the end of the day, what matters is that all weapons can clear it using the required strat (that is, using element). And ALL the weapons have been proven to be able to hit elemental topple without Fatalis/Alatreon builds.
@@mrsanguini5819 I'm not complaining about the weapon damage design in itself, i'm complaining about the combination of a boss mechanic and the weapon damage design
>ALL the weapons have been proven to be able to hit elemental topple without Fatalis/Alatreon builds.
Hammer cannot realistically topple in the first phase, you can watch TA Wiki SpeedRuns for confirmation, they cart at first escaton because that's more efficient than doing the mechanic that has obviously not been properly adjusted for that weapon
Again the weapon design and the boss mechanic aren't to blame individually, it's the combination of both
Asmongold + monster hunter is the best combo. Hope to see more from you brother. Would be awesome seeing you learn and try all the weapons.
About building specific equips, its actually more forgiving in the sense that you can equip your favorite set of armor as a layered armor. That way, you wont see the weird mixed set of armor your character wears but you'll only see your favorite one
another problem with endgame monster that came through title updates is that their Master Rank requirement is low
Alatreon quest is available at MR24 (raging brachydios is also MR24 but it didn't had a guaranteed instadeath dps check)
while in the base iceborne Gold Rathian quest is only available at MR70
So a player that was MR70+ probably had a better preparation when alatreon update came
be equipment, decorations or overall game experience
im pretty sure you need to hunt tempered monster guilding lands to maxout upgrade armour. tempered monster in guilding lands appear only mrank 99.
you are in, get hit once you die territory. even if you have end game fatalis gear. because it cannot be upgraded to the fullest until mrank99.
From my understanding as im a new player there are elements in the game (which is water fire ice and thunder) and there are status effects (poison blast and paralyze)
An element applies elemental damage to targets that has a separate multiplier than raw attack.
Status effects builds up a certain effect proc a debuff like poison etc. this is why most blast builds rely on raw attack buffs
Dragon is basically both an element and a status effect. Dragon has dragon seal effect that has a chance to seal the elemental aura for elder dragons (ex teostra/lunastra's fire aura that damages u when ur close to them)
As a player who started with mhr it took me getting into world facing alatreon to even understand this
Fire blight, ice blight thunder blight and water blight I never seen a monster get these effects so they arent statuses that the player has access to but the monsters can give those to you
You're correct. Asmon literally implied real-world logic to a game with dragons, which is silly. But to be fair, World does a terrible job at showing how effective elemental damage is. That's something rise/sunbreak does better, as elemental damage is basically meta in that game. As long as you tenderize and run fatalis weapons with high dps, you can honestly beat any monster with one type of weapon. Fire, water, and ice blight never really affected monster as statuses until rise.
@@umbraoni4550 which is what I think is sucks that in the end game all meta sets are just fatalis gear i get that he's supposed to be the last monster but yeah.
I am yet to play my sunbreak as I got addicted to MHW now that you mentioned that monsters can get other status ailments makes me excited to continue my Rise playthrough
@@laron1231 it needs to be mentioned tho, that your weapons cant actually apply the elemental blight. however you can apply it with for example bugs you find on quests or your palicos with certain gadgets
i too thought blast was elemental until i looked it up, my logic was simply it does non-raw damage and its not DoT, so elemental damage by process of elimination
the way blast damage actually works with status buildup is completely hidden and far from intuitive to people used to other games, it just felt like random proc explosive dmg
In weapon/player stats they told you what kind of element you resist and blast is not in one of them because it is a status.. but if he want to stand with blast = fire, i cant argue with him..
Also, explosion is not a fire...
The weapon UI says "Element: Blast".
@@TheTexasDiceno it dosent
@@markjack9772it.. does..
players can easily check what is element and ailment just by the book ingame
@@TheTexasDice yes, that's why i said about element resist.. because status can be immune by skill, but not the elemental dmg
I remember that before this fight, people opted for pure raw damage or poison/blast status effects, except for some special fights. It felt like this fight forced players into elemental damage builds, which the newer players tended to skip as they weren't as good as the other options.
However, right before Alatreon, we were introduced to the Safi'Jiiva raids, which gave us options for strong elemental builds (so we should've seen this coming).
Even so, I felt that the Extreme Behemoth fight was much harder at the time in comparison to Alatreon. It was a high rank fight but even then demanded good coordination. Even later I fought it again (with high rank equipment and parties) just for the enjoyment.
The thing people seem to ignore about Alatreon is that, even playing without an element can be manage. You just have to embrace the one or two carts you'll be eating. You can bash your head against it but it's not easy. Fighting it as intended gives you a few safe damage windows that you miss without it but you can still always attack it. It all comes down to what you're prepared for, be that to evade the next attack, eat it for damage or to cart outright.
Also, if you do seal/horn break Escaton Judgement every time it's in the opposite element to you, you have at least 3 Judgments before you start carting. If you don't burn lives to basic attacks, you can get through 7 Judgements without failing the quest. 2 before horn breaks, one immediately after. The next four alternate between eating carts (2) and surviving (the other 2.) That's the whole 50 minutes. You have as long as you can survive simple attacks for. Just realise armor won't take you the whole way, as Asmon said.
apparently Alatreon is the only monster in the game with a unique mechanic that you need to prepare for & adapt around if you want an easier time. Truly a first for the series
Yes. Along side elements being not well cared for until RISE, resulted in a wall that some monster hunter fans actually disliked. Kirin has always occupied the space of "annoying" for some weapon types. Aleteron was either a breeze or a slog based on weapon because of previous mentioned element damage issues.
It's not an "easier" time, it's a "possible" or "allowed" time. That's the problem. If Elemental was just a way to make it 10x easier, that would be fine. But refusing to use elements makes it impossible (unless you are skilled beyond what is expected of the average hunter).
I'm just gonna always find it silly people only built the one blast or poison build.
@@TheTexasDice it IS 'easier', you do not require elemental damage to beat him and complete the quest.
just like you don't require x monster weakness or breaking x part or using x item or equipping x armour skill for literally any other fight in the game.
@@rainbowsnek Beatable solo? Yah I am not arguing that it isn't solo-able. The issue is you aren't beating aletreon with no carts on raw alone. If you don't bring the right element you will cart at a minimum of once. That is his gimmick, it is an extremely shit gimmick. If you play with friends, if you don't bring elements, it is near impossible to beat without being speedrunner tier good at the game to prevent the 100% you die mechanic.
Doesn't mean much, but I'll put my 2 cents in for this.
I beat Alatreon when it came out. I did so solo. I had looked into the information that the devs had put out when he released. I went in with the proper preparation. I prefarmed the Silver Rathalos set, and I had farmed the Frostfang Barioth weapon.
Going in, I knew most of what I needed to know. The only thing I didn't know was to focus the fore-legs, because they take the most amount of damage.
I used Switch Axe, even though at the time people were saying it was a bad match up. I beat him solo on my 8th attempt.
The fight itself, as in Alatreon's moveset is spectacular. It is a very difficult fight, that felt very rewarding to overcome.
However, all of that is ruined by Escaton Judgment. I absolutely despise DPS checks. If I could fight a version of it that didn't have that move, it would be one of my top favorite fights in the game.
Could I go back and beat it again? Absolutely. Do I want to? No, it just isn't fun.
elemental counter is great tbh but after i tried paralyze switchaxe, in coop i became a frontline support. i love that it works on every monster.
I just love that he has a Grooky on the background.
The only problem i see with this monster is the fact that Capcom spoils very bad the community with the RAW power and ignoring element weakness for the most part of the game, you need to teach the hunters with previous "walls" and mechanics that elemental power matters.
I would love it if Capcom ever figured out how to make Elemental damage on slower weapons not terrible. In fact, they went backwards because in Freedom Unite on the PSP, elemental Heavy Bowgun was amazing and now it sucks.
@@TheTexasDice Ele is meta for hammer and hunting horn in Sunbreak
@@mrrodgers0 I thought only fast weapon is better at element? How hammer good with it? I using hammer and a look at guide said for hammer raw damage matter more.
Elemental HBG in Rise go brrrr
That just depends on your weapon. Element is much better on DBs and Bow, so it's encouraged to run elements rather than raw, and this is a World problem, Sunbreak's element system is much more balanced and stronger, and I hope Wilds does Sunbreak Element system than World's
He lost me when he said Blastblight/Blast should be an element 😂
If you push the menu button ingame you can literally see what stats are increasing with things like frostcraft while your fighting.
i loved alatreon when it came out in world, my friends and i spent hours planning and attempting the fight. great fun
It will be always be funny to me to see many people who will be mad because they cant blitz the boss with one weapon they use when the game mechanic tells you an easier way but bringing more different gear which is weird when MH is all about having different weapon types of attributes especially if your maining a single weapon for most of the game. It takes practice to not die from Escaton but is practically doable. You just gotta know your game plan and have the gear available to do and if not, grind to get those which is the usual MH tactic. If you dont like the game mechanic or being forced to use another weapon then call a buddy.
Fr. I rather fight Alatreon than Fatalis.
"MH is all about having different weapon types of attributes especially if your maining a single weapon for most of the game" I have played most of GU, 3U, and 4U, and fought everything in World/Iceborne and Sunbreak. I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've geniunely needed to swap elements or status to fight a Monster with Greatsword. You can brute force roughly 95%-99% of all Monsters in all games, the only time element or status even applies is very specific monsters, them being in my experience:
-Gogmazios
-Chameleos(Pre-Rise)
-Kushala species
Unless using Dual Blades or another elemental weapon type, you can just use the same weapon for damn near every monster.
What is an Escaton?
Most people are mad because Alatreon is a great ego check. It was similar in the base game with Tempered Kirin. Remember how you had to fight it to unlock tempered elders? And how many people whined on the forums that they cannot do it and die all the time? And that fight wasn't even that hard to begin with. As I said, it's an ego check. People think they are way better than they actually are, and when they get to try something beyond their skill level and get crushed, they lash out. Getting your ego crushed is painful for a lot of people.
@@ne1nch The one shot attack Alatreon does. IF you want top survive it, you need to get at least a single topple from elemental damage and then heal through it when it comes out. You know, that big explosion that Asmon died to.
Dude, he's an endgame boss, and not even the hardest one, if the entire game was a breeze the game would be a lot more boring.
The game already slow. Making everything easy gonna be snooze. Monsters in MHW more like tedious tbh 😮💨
For you probably.. for me Alatreon was the hardest one on par with Arch tempered Velkana, fatalis was way easier for me, kulve taroth was a bit hard but not much (final phase) and well safi it´s not even a battle really just destroying parts
One of the biggest problems World has is that for people who already played older MH games, over 95% of this game is not a challenge whatsoever. The first fights that actually felt like a challenge were arch tempered elders in the base game. Then in Iceborne the first fight that might make you have to try at least a little bit is Rajang (just because everything before it was so much easier in comparison, the fight itself is not hard), and after that there is this weird void where nothing really poses a threat, especially once you get into end game gear and upgrade it all the way. And in the whole game there are maybe 3 fights that have any level of difficulty for experienced players: Arch Tempered Velkhana being the easiest of the "hard" fights, then Alatreon and ending with Fatalis.
This is due to many reasons, but chief amongst them are two: the way they changed the damage formula, which made the monsters deal significantly less damage than in the older games, and then every single weapon receiving powerful new tools that made them stronger than they have ever been before. So the players got stronger than ever before, and the monsters got weaker, it's a pretty obvious conclusion what is the result of this.
I don't like this mindset. A fight can be a challenge without being impossible for people who don't want to be railroaded.
Fatalis did it just right. You can essentially ignore Fatalis' gimmick if you're okay with getting one-shot for making mistakes. But if you don't make mistakes, you can still do it. Alatreon doesn't work like that.
@@TheTexasDiceagree
with blast you have to think how it's being apply with your weapon. It's similar to how sleep,poision and paralysis works as far as application goes and elemental damage is on hit each time and not base on build up on each hit, Blast just give you a better visual que of when it's gonna happen.
I tell most hunters that gear only matters for numbers. Good gear will make you win faster but it won’t usually snatch you a W if you weren’t already capable.
I find it funny that this can be solved by just reading the skill description on the armor set.
You forgot, that MH has realistic monsters, but also super mythical monsters, IE KIRIN and these super Monsters like Alatreon. They defy the regular logic.
I "Cheesed" it with sticky lbg (original, I know). You would faint two times, but if you managed to land 90% of the shots to the head, then you would kill it before the third escaton.
There’s a palico gadget that draws the monster’s attention the shieldspire stooge saved me countless times
Alatreon was the most fun WALL i have hit in gaming in years, learning all his fight mechanics was absolutely brutal as a Lancer.
true and real, and after 4h of trying i beat it once, and had mats for 2 full weapons and 3 piece of armour, worth it. It was 2-3 years ago, to this day i stil didnt redone this boss, i tried this weak tho, didnt work xD
Lance was easy. The only problems was his long range frost breath and the 3 fire ground explosions if you blocked it.
I do agree Lance was easy for everything in game except for Alatreon and Fatty imo Alatreon I found was easiest with sns or db and fatty was easiest with hammer by far! Best part about MH fandom is everyone can understand each others pain 😂
@MrGillies69 yeah Fatty was Really hard with Lance. It took a couple of weeks for me to beat him.
What you guys talking about? Lance is one of the few weapons I can reliably beat Fatalis with every time.
I've been playing since Tri and had beaten every iteration of Alatreon, from Tri to Tri Ultimate, to MHGenU, and finally the masterpiece fight that was in MHW. When the Alatreon fight dropped years ago, I was hyped as hell and had high expectations on how the fight would turn out remade in World. I was not disappointed in the slightest, despite struggling a bit and full-carting a few fights vs him. His fight was so much more dynamic. There was no more cheese involved with the fight like his previous incarnations and barely any shitty hitzones like the older fights had. It was just you vs. the Blazing Black Dragon, testing your skill and forcing you to make a strategy in fighting him instead of just powering through the game with your typical blast weapon melee build or cheese bowgun build. It was a fight and a struggle, and it truly gave me a real challenge that I thoroughly enjoyed. Alatreon MHW remains today in my top 3 Monster Hunter fights of all time.
was Fatalis a better fight?
@@arminarlert5203 arguably a better fight, but I'm quite sure the general consensus is that Fatty is the harder one
Meanwhile, the speedrunners from that team channel just destroyed it within seconds.
I've played since MH1 and I think he sucks. And no, killing Alatreon 6 times didn't cause me to magically join the gatekeeper club, I still think it's a poorly designed fight compared to how well Fatalis was done.
@@arminarlert5203Fatalis is a great fight, although I slightly prefer Alatreon's fight. If you like a good, though very challenging fight, Fatalis is for you. Full Divine Blessing, Health Up and Fire Res for certain weapons are recommended by me if you don't want to get one-shot by him, because he does A LOT of damage from all his attacks.
Idk if this helps but I'll try to explain the element/status difference,
Element is like raw but it just depends on the monster. It's there to take advantage of weaknesses and add more damage.
Status is similar but different in the fact that each one has a mechanic to it rather than it just being simple damage.
Fire damage just does damage to monsters vulnerable to fire every time you swing your weapon. Blast requires a buildup before letting out an explosion that does a fixed amount of damage depending on what monster you're fighting.
Even if a blast weapon has an amount of blast damage it doesn't deal blast damage per hit but rather each hit has a chance to build up the effect before it eventually kicks in. Once the status is over it takes more hits to proc status.
So unlike element your not doing extra damage per hit but rather you're hitting for a chance to activate the mechanic until the effect kicks in. Thus blast doesn't deal fire damage and paralysis doesn't deal thunder damage and vice versa. Is it the most logical? no. Does the game explain all this directly? Not that I know of. It's all just how the game was designed.
if you read the in-game hunter notes it tells you under every monster their weakness and it specifies there that blast is an ailment and not an element and in Frostcraft in-game description it says that the aura raises attack, it says nothing about elemental attack. So everything is told in-game to you just not shoved to your face. Kind of like in dark souls.
Wait till he learns about fatalis
I did not know dragon blight makes your elemental damage to zero. i just thought it will make the monsters dragon attack higher.
Asmongold blast status and blast blight was used to be called Slime and was very busted when it came out they reworked it. then changed the name to blast and was started by your favorite most hated monster Brachydios.
My issue with Alatreon is the same issue I have with Kirin and why I typically avoid hunting them. While they can be beaten with any weapon, certain ones just feel almost worthless vs them more so than any other monster imo. I can play Dual Blades and Bow, which I use specifically for those monsters, but most of my enjoyment comes from Gunlance so I just don't get any enjoyment from killing Alatreon or Kirin.
TLDR - the reason why Alatreon is so hated in the world community
Alatrreon is a all in one
- DPS check
- elemental DPS check
- survivability check
- equipment check
- utility check
- part break check
- skill check
All while having stunlock instakill combos. Elemental negating Dragon blight and refusal of lowering his head / de engraving for a mandatory part break. He's not a bad boss persay he's just not typically fun for 90% of people and the fact that you have to fight him before you can fight the best fight in Monster Hunter fatalis really gets to people.
What? There's only a ele DPS check and a part break check. And you're the only person to complain about hitting Alatreon's head, when he has it front and centre and easy to hit after almost all of his combos. Not to mention Alatreon doesn't have a true combo even after his pin, so there are no guaranteed zero to deaths if you aren't getting one shot (and if you are... that's a gear issue).
It's because when Alatreon released, everybody was running around with Unga Bunga Raw and Blast Builds with Max DPS sets and no defense or defensive skills. So naturally, an Elemental Boss with DPS Checks and hard-hitting moves made them mad cause they couldn't just do a brain-dead hunt
@@bonel0rd326 true but even those of us that had all the gear pre farmed for the fight did struggle Tring to build for all the criteria above ele DMG, part break, survivability, support etc it really seemed like they wanted people to have designated roles in the fight when playing in a group or suffer through the juggling 6 mechanics solo
@@meathir4921 there is NOT only a ele DPS check you NEED to kill him in 3 rotations if playing in a group like 90% of people will. With HP values of ~52,500(solo), ~79,000(duo), 118,125(3 or 4 players) he also does have true combos with his high stun values similar to black diablos charge attack and lightning dmg combos if unlucky enough will lead to a cart. I get you fought the dogshit easy quest version but maybe go fight the actual alatreon a few times before a take like DMG doesn't matter on a time gated phase gated fight
@@user-ov8cu5ff2y I've literally beaten the fight only getting hit by Escaton and the fire floors from the oil puddles.
The 3 rotations kill should really not be an issue. Anyone with even a half decent weapon can kill in sub 18 mins.
If you're including stun combos... no shit every monster has stun combos
Some people being mad that an endgame boss is hard will always be funny to me too
Alatreon fight was people trying to put a cube in a spherical hole and not even bothering to stop and think maybe the cube goes in the square hole.
Really happy to see asmon make iit this far in one of my fav games! Alatreon is an awesome monster to hunt! I had so much fun spamming solo hunts on them with dual blades
It was hated because endgame gear was all raw dmg based or blast. It forced all of us to use elemental gear. Once we switched to elemental the boss became manageable.
This boss basically skill checks you to make sure you can then fight fatalis!
Which is THE end game boss
And after you feel good beating fatalis AT velkhana wrecks you
Love the emphasis you put on Fatalis being THE final boss. To me, Fatalis is the final boss of Monster Hunter as a whole.
The problem in alatreon is that it wasn't gated to mr 100+ which means running with a bunch of randos that time was certain death. Alatreon also required high elemental damage and most high e dmg weapon that time was locked in a rng based kulve drop (although running kjarr weapons weren't a requirement, it certainly made my solo run easier.)
I started in world and now have over 2000 hours in the game, and all of the things you are saying make sense, however from what I understand after playing rise and generations ultimate and listening to veterans of even older games is that Monster Hunter has a long history of making "technically" accurate skill and item descriptions that still leave all of the details one would want unseen.
Alatreon, since the release of mhw (monster hunter world) Capcom released updates to the game providing things besides bug fixes. these updates were called title updates and were usually released a few months after the previous title update. there were five for base world introducing monsters like deviljo, kulve taroth, and lunastra before the release of iceborne each title update was expecting that the player has already completed most if not all the content from previous updates and spent time building gear as strong as we are satisfied with. this is important because alatreon was released as the second to last title update of iceborne. the base experience is completed and every monster fightable unlocked at MR 100 with monsters like ruiner nergigante, and the metal raths (gold rathian and silver rathalos). The decision to make all title update monsters available imediately after completion of the story is something I believe to be misguided and handled better (slighty not much) in rise where for the base game most of the title update content was locked behind a high enough HR
Blast, From what I have heard from friends and creators who have played the older games, blast is a relatively new ability weapons can have. (please correct me if I am wrong) The other weapon abilities like dealing the elemental damage types (fire, water, thunder. ice, and dragon) and the statuses (poison, sleep, and paralysis) have been around since the original monster hunter and blast was created in monster hunter tri and originally called slime as Brachydios was the first monster to utilize it. while it is very similar to fire and was probably just meant to be an another interpretation of a fire monster adding it to weapons while making it mechanically distinct from fire element was to make it a status that when triggered deals a burst of "non elemental" blast damage the next game called slime blast to make it more generalized for the use in other monsters and to make more sense in some way
Frost craft, is a damage multiplier of the weapon, unfortunately it doesn't add anything that wasn't there before. Think it multiplies elemental damage as well, but the text about an aura of frost is flavor text because it comes from a ice dragon.
P.S. As for why you probably didn't know of dragon blight till alatreon, it is probably because you play great sword where most of the damage scales off of raw and there is only a little element because of the frequency of hits compared to elementally focused weapons like dual blades. both weapons have attacks that deal more damage that other attacks the same weapon can do (eg. true charged slash vs a draw attack) the thing with element is the same amount of element will be applied to both attacks eg. draw attack = 100 raw damage + 50 elemental damage vs TCS (true charged slash) = 300 raw + 50 element.
I know this will probably be buried and not read as the wall of text might make it seem I am trying to tell people how to play the game I just thought it was info worth sharing
TLDR: alatreon was made too accesable, blast has to be different from fire somehow, and frost craft doesn't add flat ice damage to attacks.
In other versions of monster hunter there were no DPS checks for Alatreon. His moves just hit harder than normal. Adding a new move where you have to break the horns to survive an attack by healing is kind of dumb. At least with fatalis in mhworld you have areas to hide from the massive area attack. The devs should have added a few areas to survive the eschaton judgment or not added it to the game. I don't like behemoth for his one-shot mechanism as well.
Tell me you haven't fought alatreon without telling me you haven't fought alatreon
"new move where you have to break the horns to survive an attack by healing" lmao
@lordofuwus7735 I have the complete armor in GU and 4U and fought him several times in world. Yeah you have to heal during the eschaton judgment even though you passed the dps check. That is why the Jerry is all about. It is a healing item.
@aj0192 yes you have to heal during the eschaton judgment even though you broke the horns. The jerky is a healing item.
My favorite fight of mhwib. Alatreon has so many telegraphed moves and when you get hit, it doesnt feel like a cheap attack.
I got a little time with MHW, took me a while to find out what dragon blight was. The biggest tell for that debuff is when your elemental damage numbers change colors to a greyish-blue color.
Personally I didn’t have too bad a time with this as I simply brought an ice weapon and didn’t worry about the horns and instead used the guaranteed wipe every other escaton as an item refresh. The tactic is called throw as many bodies at it until it dies. This only works however if you are a solo player.
The issue for me wasnt the difficulty, its that I needed a very specific loadout to properly combat it and had to completely leve a specific set of weapons for it. I dont know why but that just really pissed me off that they added a grind you had to commit to before you even where allowed entry into his encounter. or atleast this was what I was told, was told later you didnt need to but by then I had not touched MHW in ages
I thought you like grinding playing MH
God forbid you can't just use your raw damage or blast weapon DLC Comfort set to Unga Bunga through a new mechanic. Every Elder Dragon DLC comes with a new gimmick, and the one that actually asked you to make gear is somehow annoying?
Every dual blade, bow, light bow gun, insect glaive, and sword and shield user really wonder why this concept of making multiple weapons is so hard for the younger generation.
If there was more bosses like that it would be fine, but this is literally the only boss like this @@Insanity2thePrawn
@delaran6243 you can meet the dps check with any weapon, just needed to bring a different element for your weapon and change some skills around.
@@Insanity2thePrawn yes its annoying. This is just a gimmick. Not to mention its a out of combat gimmick which makes it even more terrible. The boss should be able to be done with any build as long as you are good enough. A skill check essentially.
Literally this boss is the definition of skill issue.
Use charge blade then swap to GS and see where the problems are. It's not skill issue it's balance issue.
@@kylemenosWhat do you mean?
@@kylemenosyou're telling me that different bosses are more difficult for different weapons?
@@midnightshout69 no way! who would've thought!
Gear issue too
I never found this boss all that bad there were a couple annoying mechanics but the only thing that actually annoyed me was having to adjust my build specifically for this fight due to the elemental threshold. The fight that really frustrated me was fatalis but I still managed to eventually power through it
Blast feels like an element because of the fire explosion but somehow they put it in the ailments cathegory along with poison, paralyse and sleep . Maybe because the damage it is not instant, it is a build up status effect that exploads once it is at max.
Its because its origin began as Slimeblight but since they wanted more monsters other than Brachydios to use the status they changed the name and the visuals.
ahh yes the misleading blast element
we all been through that bs, admit it
People advance in the game ignoring a lot of information that the game offers, the information about elemental weapons is yet another piece of information that they ignore, and they only start paying attention when they can't complete the quest and get frustrated, ''what do you mean now I have to learn playing the game?''
18:25 what's even more strange is that blast ailement was introduced in MH3 Ultimate from Brachy's weapons and it never updates nor justifies their logical differences of combustive (fire) explosion conpare to fire damage all to World and after for four MH games straight.
I agree, Blast should've applied the same logic as fire elemental damage.
Alatreon is a preparation quest to go all out and test your skills for fighting the last quest endgame which is fatalis
To be fair, multiplayer isn't necessary easier for these late game monsters, it's more like a wild card. You can either get the most insane players in your team or a polar opposite.
For Alatreon, I find multiplayer to be somewhat more difficult. Due to higher elemental threshold, more random targeting, instant wipe if not toppled. I can get about a 9/10 solo while it's a 5 or 6/10 in multiplayer.
I like you Asmon, you often make a lot of sense. But Jesus Christ, the last part is just pure stubbornness in not reading and follow the game rule. Why should Blast be the same as Fire in term of game mechanic, why would Blast exist if there's already Fire, or if Blast is just a better Fire, then why would people use Fire? And even if Blast did become an element instead of ailment, it still doesn't change the fact that Alatreon is weak to Fire/Ice. So it's still wrong element.
Man really gonna pull a D&D logic into a Magic the Gathering game. Because all this make sense? Why isn't it possible?
yep, same goes to fatalis
I would never recommend playing with randoms through SOS flare for those fights, the chance of getting people who are simply not ready for those fights is way too high. I had more success with these fights doing them solo. I remember trying to do some multiplayer Fatalis fights to farm the gear, like a month after it came out, and I did not get a single successful hunt the whole day, must've been like 20 different hunts... I mean I know how bad an average person is at video games, but come on that's just sad.
@@RiskOfBaer True, but solo just make me fall asleep after 2 or 3 hunts. So I like to jump into rando SOS just for fun.
@@gobokoboobo4620 Yep, my limit for these fights is also about 3 in a row. My tolerance used to be higher in older games, but I think I have just played too much Monster Hunter over the years, I'm overdosing already.
Alatreon is a gigachad. End of story.
If you can't do the fight again after raging or the day after, it's YOUR problem!
Alatreon is hard because you can't just brute force it like other monsters, and honestly the preparations and grinding I did to beat it, in group and then solo was hella fun. I made the perfect Safi weapons, I upgraded all the items and armors and farmed the consumables needed. When it didn't work I went back to preparations trying other gears while learning its moveset.
I remember thinking his gear was bad due to how defensively oriented it was, but for a laugh I tried using a full set of it. The decoration slottage was so good I could fit in basically all the usual damage skills for most weapons and the built in defensive skills and set bonus made it an amazingly comfy set. Not my highest damage set but it was good at pretty much everything. It became my go to set for casual hunting for multiple weapons just because of how decent it was in all areas. Pair it with the high dragon damage on his weapons and the set skills/bonuses and it does just stupid amounts of dragon elemental damage.