The Tiny Component Giving Ferrari Incredible Pace
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 2. 05. 2022
- And it's not just Ferrari, Red Bull have done it too!
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Get ready, weâre going to be getting nerdy about the Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes floors - so see how they are starting to get a handle on the bouncing.
So this in Imola we got a look a look at the Red Bull and Mercedes floors from the garage, and Sainz gave us a look at the Ferrari after his spin in qualifying.
There were some really interesting bits to break down, especially on the Red Bull. These bits are skids, and they could be the answer to the bouncing on the straights.
So let's get into it.
Now weâre not going to break down wh6y porpoising is happening, but just know - it could be for a number of reasons. And this solution is only solving one of them, so fair warning.
But a lot of this stems from the flexing of the floor. The cars are struggling to get down to the weight limit, and so you want to make the floor as light, and therefore thin as possible.
So this means the floors are flexing as the downforce builds. And that can actually be a good thing - meaning you can control the airflow a little better and constricting the airflow can often be a good thing (in some cases).
Because if the gap between the floor and the ground is smaller, you can accelerate the air more and create more downforce.
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#Formula1 #Ferrari #Driver61 - Auta a dopravnĂ prostĆedky
I swear you lot are paying scarbs' salary at this point đ
grateful hes here though haha
I can do it for far less than Scarbs. Also, I know jackshit about the subject
He is on all the good F1 CZcams channels . Still just a poser without Scarbs on the show đ
@@SnapshotPT So just like scarbs then
@@ASJC27 precisely!! This is NOT how aerodynamics work.
Skid blocks seemed to me as the obvious thing to stop the car getting too low to the track, surely it can't only be me and RB that thought of this?
we need to see the underside of some other cars (especially the Merc)
we already have seen redbull, Ferrari's and merc's underbody. check out B Sport, he made a video outlining the differences.
I was gonna write same comment
You're not the only one. I thought of this too but, I assumed it would resemble a sliding skirt just a tad bit much.
Skid blocks should be legal as they are not in constant contact with the track in the way skirts are.
Yeah sure you did, brainiac
Love how concise these videos are!
They are excellent, different from the race which rabbit on for 20mins so you before you get the 2 minutes of info you actually want
Finally someone that says it. Conciseness is a value!Thank you
B sport does even better than this channel and goes in on ALL of the floors between Scuderia Ferrari and Red Bull and Mercedes Benz AMG Petronas.
As a wise Fernando Alonso once said -
âAll the time you have to leave da space!â
Underrated comment đ
I think it was kimi
From a spectators standpoint, weâve barely even scratched the surface of figuring out what modern race engineers know and apply into their cars
I was wondering why this wasn't already done, figured it must be against the rules. It just took them a little while to find a way around them. How hard must it be to govern all these brilliant engineers?
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. Hell isn't fun. GOD loves you soo much unconditionalâ€đâ€ïžđ
@@alunesh12345 Dude stop spamming
We have to thank Venturi for inventing this effect. Imagine if he didnât invent it. We would be stuck without ground effect
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. Hell isn't fun. GOD loves you soo much unconditionalâ€đâ€ïžđ
@@alunesh12345 I aint confessing man, would you like me to tell you something about Atheism?
Good guy Carlos crashes so that he can share Ferrari floor design with the whole paddock
It's just a matter of time till everyone merge. Some copies will work , some not depending of the car concept.
Either that or exploits of designs will increase and teams will go deep into the rabbit hole because it is more cost efficient to research small areas than the whole car again.
You guys are what got me into F1!!
That and DTS đ€Ł
That's so awesome to hear!
@@VR46314 that to but I found that second
They got me into coke and hookers đđđ
@@Driver61 Hello Scott and Driver61. Have the winners been announced for the $1000 newsletter sign up?
This kinda reminds me of these small metal plates time attack drivers would put on the bottom of their splitters they referred to as "sacrificial plates". They obviously have a different job and are just used to protect the splitter but this just reminded me of that.
Loving all the videos you guys have been putting out over the last 2 years, I can only hope that Scarbs has a seat at your Christmas dinner table, as he seems like one of the family too!
đ
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. Hell isn't fun. GOD loves you soo much unconditionalâ€đâ€ïžđ
Off topic: Scarbs reminds me of Phil Collins. Every time he appears, I start hearing "How can I just let you walk away,
just let you leave without a trace..." and then the song gets stuck in my head in a loop.
is the bouncing a problem of center of gravity. Seems the merc transaxle and mclaren transaxle are having different results.
Also. the teams have different jump outs in the ground effect tunnels. Example; Red bull has jump out on its inner walls near the front of the tunnels and smooth roofs. The merc has smooth walls and 2 big jump outs in the roof just before the diffuser.
I believe Mercedes and all the other teams have some very smart people looking at this and probably doing the same...
And still... No fix for the Ferrari and Merc and all other teams.
Mercedes and Ferrari are saying they're bringing floor upgrades to Miami I think judging by Scarbs analysis of Ferrari's tire testing we may see a new floor with these skidpads and Aston's double bip t-trays featured on Mercs Ferrari and McLaren next week.
@@khawajabasit977 but even though Ferrari seems to have the fastest car, so far... It's Redbull that has controlled the bouncing.
@@PedroFTeixeira You're right but porposing is such a weird phenomena no one truly has a grip on it . I've heard RB built a very heavy floor that doesn't flexes as much as Ferrari so it doesn't cause too much flexing and so it doesn't cause porposing. I've also heard that rear suspension also plays a major part in porposing. That is the reason we're seeing AM, Williams porposing and McLaren not so much as both AM and Williams use Mercs rear suspension while McLaren designs it own. Possibly the rear suspension of the Ferrari is what is causing it to porpose but Ferrari is looking to have ways around it aerodynamically.
Maybe we'll learn the full reasons of porposing in the coming years when there's no secrets among the teams left right now all we can do is speculate.
I'm so hoping this is ferrari's year
Killer video guys, crushing it đȘđŒ
The metal-side attachments look dangerous to my eyes. If a bit of metal breaks off, it goes straight under the back tyre when the car is in motion. If that piece of metal happens to be sharp then you see the problem. I think this is why the more centralized Red-Bull approach may be the way to go.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. Hell isn't fun. GOD loves you soo much unconditionalâ€đâ€ïžđ
I don't think it's possible that Ferrari adopted a similar component to RB in the Pirelli testing as only parts that have already been used in a race so far are allowed at the Pirelli tests, Ferrari i think used the Bahrain and the Australia floors
Someone has to make a documentary about making an F1 car. I'd love to see how they get their ideas.
BBC Horizon used to do some great programmes on F1
You may want to check out Adrian Neweys book 'how to build a car'
They look in the FB comments for ideas from the experts, who regularly offer their vast knowledge such as âitâs all the carâ and âmy Nan could win in that carâ and âitâs not fair they have a faster carâ, little nuggets like that slowly giving the game away, oh and my favourite was from when BMW were involved in F1, âthe E60 M5 engine was the same as the F1 V10â
On a different issue, with most YT videos... why do the thumb links have to appear so early, 04:40 covering up the endings?
The uploaded content need an extra 15 / 20 secs with a still image to let us see the content in full.
I guess YT believes viewers just can't wait till the end before clicking on another video.
Favorite F1/ Racing Channel
Ahh Adrian Newey has done it again :) Fucking legend
For real. He's an expert at finding loopholes
Imagine what gains could be had by ordinary cars if F1 engineers had a more free reign. I want to see more relaxed rules, F1 engineers are some of the imaginative in the world. Let them do their thing
You have to put computers in that car, because a human is not capable of that.
@@patrickeder527 i think the cost cap is good but i think "the formula" is too prescriptive in terms of the physical design of the car. But I have to admit the new regulations did give us an absolutely beautiful ferrari car this year
One reason is if the cars get too fast then all the tracks have to be redesigned for safety reasons. Thats not something they want to do over and over again.
another thing is RB has more lateral floor variation (contraction at center expansion on both ends - fences & diffuser) => floor less sensitive to (vertical) ride height changes.
That's why they (almost) don't porpoise
My spectator solution would be to not let the suspension bend below a certain angle to prevent porpoising
Could the teams not utilize a coil bind type of setup for the porpoising situation? Once the suspension compresses so far, to the point just before the undertray stalling occurs, the suspension bottoms out and cannot travel any further and keep the undertray from stalling
That would be terrible on the kerbs. You would have no way to control the car.
Your background music is always so interesting đ
They should allow active suspension next season to stop the porpoising. Itâs a more road relevant tech than most of the stuff theyâve bought in this year under that guise.
I don't think it's very likely, considering the cost
Why? So many teams have solved the problem. Will their efforts be compensated?
These are the rules. And that's where all the teams have to work with.
why reward being bad
@@Pedun42 They could make the actuators and sensors standardised, fia provided parts, like they have with the fuel pumps, then the teams would just have to get creative with the control modules/programming.
The trouble with active suspension is youâre taking some of the driver skill away, and putting it into the hands of a computer.
ABS brakes, and traction control are banned for the same reason, F1 must keep the driver focus.
I canât imagine that this porpoising wasnât seen. But it obviously was. I am sure that once the chassis flexes the suspension reacts and it starts going back and forth. Then add the aero and it gets very complicated.
I clicked on this video knowing that scarbs was going to go into detail but this guy is great too.
Wonder what kind of damage a titanium strake dragging on the ground does to the trackâŠ
And the steel skid plate?
@@TheZwhyX The skid plates are annealed titanium 6Al-4V, however that's still a lot harder than mild steel.
@@ASJC27 did they update them? I thought previously in a video or so they said it was steel (confirmed by the orange sparks vs Ti-6-4 blueish ones)
@@TheZwhyX No they were required to be titanium ever since they were introduced in 2015.
The 2015-2021 regs simply say they have to be made from a titanium alloy. The 2022 regs require speifically that the titanium alloy be in accordance with AMS 4928 or 4911 (i.e. 6-4), and annealed.
Very good point.
It's the only reason I can see for the FIA acting against them. It's a simple and now widely known addition to the floor that seems to be of benefit, I'll wager that every other team has their engineers sweating over their CAD screens trying to emulate the system ASAP
What if at 4:15 you do not make them rigid, but connect them with suspension? Meaning when speed is high and suspension squats, to increse tension and "lift" up edge of the floor? It woud not be "active".
Maybe a couple of miniature wheels might work?
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. Hell isn't fun. GOD loves you soo much unconditionalâ€đâ€ïžđ
Lets get Scarbs a better internet connection
This is getting as close to rocket science as it can get.
This is very different to rocket science.
1.15 beautiful shot of vortex
Check out Mercedes shake down in the rain, really strange double vortices in front of the rear tyre
Isnt this found in RB18 first?
Why they can't use some formbof shock absorber stopper?
So I have a dumb question as a new F1 fan. I understand that any time in racing there are new rules regulations that the team to adapt the best comes out on top. But have we ever seen such a drastic change like this? Obviously what comes to mind is the aero cars of the early 70s or the turbo cars in the 80s, but from my understanding teams adapted pretty quickly and were at a somewhat even playing field. Seems this issue is out of left field given nobody was able to anticipate it in their internal simulators. Curious what others think.
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada
What did callum meant by the stays moving with the suspension? Aren't the stays fixed rigidly to the chassis? If it were to move with the rear suspension...then the side floors will be vibrating right? As the car goes through uneven parts of the track
I meant they are a sprung part of the car, so as the car porpoises the floor goes with it. A skid hold the floor a fixed height from the track
@@Driver61 ah....got itđ thanks for the quick reply....big fan and great workđ
The Red Bull skid was spotted in Melbourne.
Just want to add, that in a recent episode of the F1 podcast, Alpine technical director, Pat Fry, said that the 2022 rules had a rule that allowed for a wing under the floor edges. He didn't know why, but I believe this is the loophole Red Bull, and now Ferrari are using to exploit this skid plate.
Do f1 teams run CFD simulations considering rain?
Best video you've ever made
They still after Miami wasn't as fast as Redbull on Race pace was close but Redbull having that extra 10-12kmph faster straight line speed made it difficult and couldn't pass
So weird to me that under all this state of the art, hyper technology is a peice of wood with metal on it.
Could they not connect the floor to the suspension, so that as the suspension goes down, it pulls the floor further up, keeping the distance between the ground and the floor?
Theyâre already doing that with the wires at the back of the floor
That hair cut is tight AF, looking sharp dude đđ»đđ»ââïž
I dont understand the fins undernesth the floor. To me it looks like they just shove all the air out the side of the floor and not directing in through the tunnel and diffuser
And that's why you're not in f1
Instead of insulting the OP here, let's help them understand the purpose of the floor, and how the air underneath the car works.
To the two commenter above me, why aren't you both in Formula One as aerodynamicists, if you're calling them out? And why aren't you suggesting some answer to counter their claim?
@@dylanburston7453 đżđżđż
@Bruh Bruh I'm not an aerodynamicist but from my experience in studying fluid dynamics and looking at the images it looks like Most of the downforce is created by the two inner tunnels with the inner most tunnel doing most of the work while the 2nd innermost one is partly generating downforce and partly generating vortices to seal off the sides of the floor, same as the two outermost ones they're generating downforce at the front end and then using that air to create vortices by running them along the floor edges thus sealing the undersides of the floor and prevent leakage from the sides. If you see closely the innermost tunnel covers more than 80% of the floor and the contour in the center doesn't matter much because venturi effect relies more on convergence and divergence of the tunnel rather than the shape of the tunnel basically the more you constrain the fluid in the center and give more room for expansion at the outlet and inlet more downforce you can create.
Hope this helps
Flinging the air outward at the front is precisely how they direct air to the diffuser. You want low pressure under the floor (that's how you make downforce). Because the high pressure outside cannot be completely sealed off, it will cause the air flowing through the tunnels to curve back toward the centerline by the time it gets to the diffuser at the rear.
It's analogous to throwing a ball: you aim well above your target because gravity will pull your projectile down. The pressure gradient is acting in a similar manner. That's the most basic answer I can think of, hope it helps!
Could I ask that when you show a graphic to illustrate a point, that the element of the graphic you are talking about is highlighted. Sometimes I get it, but frequently I don't and I find myself having to frantically scan the screen to see exactly what you're talking about. In doing that I lose concentration on what you're talking about and its frustrating. An arrow or circle will be just fine.
Edit: I posted this after watching up to about the 3.30 mark. The graphics after that do have the requested indicators and it is much easier to follow.
Ferrari literally had the same titanium strakes as redbull since bahrain, what are you on about mate.
I'm surprised during a tyre test after the race that Ferrari were allowed to change floors and essentially gain some testing time
I thought there was something strange about the sparking on the RBs.
I really struggle to understand why are so many in UK calling ground a floor.. The car has a floor. A building has a floor. Outside it is called ground. The car floor gets closer to the ground.
I wonder how much drag these createđ€ maybe that's why some teams don't use them?
I thought porpoising was the same as having a turtle head poking out. Damn Urban Dictionary has my brain all scrambied.
Cool video
The first time I saw mr. 61 clean shaven I legit didnât recognize him lol thought it was a different host đ
All the commentators have this so wrong it's hilarious, that rear underfloor fence or 'skid block' is not a physical barrier to prevent porpoising. It's a very powerful aerodynamic device in the most sensitive area of the entire car which creates a strong local underfloor vortex which improves diffuser sealing specifically.
Which commentators?
I think everyoneâs on board with it being both
Can't wait for the F1 journalist to do their video for them again :D
Teams are actually straight up adding struts to their cars because they shake too much. Some real ksp shit here.
Whereâs Harry Hills big lapels gone!?!?
After this video let's not be surprised if AMR are seen in the top 3 next GP
And flexible aero surfaces are illegal arenât they? ie RBR lean back rear wing last year!
The question is that if this is such an obvious and easy solution then why havenât Mercedes adopted it? Do they consider it a band aid which doesnât address bigger issues? Or is it a matter of finding a right spot on their floor to put it. The same can be said for floor dampers, which both Ferrari and RB are using but Mercedes have yet to implement. They may be playing the long game here. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
The title says about the Ferrari's which were talked for only like 6 seconds at the end of the video, but the whole video was mostly talked about Red Bull ??
A video on intellectual property in F1 may be a good idea. The VW entry is a good case study. VW owns two brands. It is said Audi is using a prototype engine formerly developed by Porsche and Porsche maybe teaming up with Red Bull PowerTrain to leverage on Honda technology... what would Honda say? What other constructors say on potential scale esconomies and synergies within the VW group?!
Like Ferrari to Alfa Romeo... Two independent companies and yet like the others... They have a customer agreement and get to utilize their development...
Same with both Redbull teams on the Honda power unit and the Mercedes customer teams...
Porsche arenât using any Honda IP at all. Itâs a new engine for 2026.
One thing I would like to know is, why don't we see porpoising in IndyCar? They've had undertray downforce for decades.
I think it might be because they use inerters in IndyCar. Not 100% sure on this.
Is this video for Ferrari or redbull?
This is all madness⊠for someone who doesnât know the rules that isâŠ. In that the rear of the floor needs to be attached to the suspension and therefore follow the road wheel hight not the body ride hight. They need to find a way for the ride hight of the floor to follow the wheel hight not the body hight. There by removing the suspension variable from the equation.
But as said, I dont know the rules �
Those are not floors....those are ankle cutters in the pitstop....
When does a skid become a skirt?
I guess its a loop hole that will be legendary in about 10 yearsâŠ
I found the title of the video a bit click-baity as there was not much substantiating that this widget is âgiving Ferrari such paceâ
Has anyone ever seen Harry Hill and scarbs in the same room at the same time?
One thing so incredible abput ferrari is even though their top speed is not near that of redbull but in a lap they are faster
yeah, they are faster on a corner
So if Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull have it figured out, will Mercedes have figured it out for Miami> Stay tuned Boys and Girls, we'll know on Friday.
Mercedes: Thanks for the information.đ„°
Those are indeed SIDESKIRTS on every 2022 car and the sideskirts are still banned. Facepalm!
ride height sensor with active suspension and a PID controller should resolve this.
Banned since 1993
Oh my! Why didn't they think of such a simple solution?? Maybe because its banned... đ
Now i'm no mechanical engineer and i have no PhD in fluid dynamics and i dont have access to model and wind tunnels etc. I'm just a simple mining engineer, so maybe someone can help me make sense of a thought i had.
Could it not be possible to introduce a tiny amount of air flow to the underfloor by way of the sidepods after it's passed through the radiators. Most of that airflow for all teams gets routed to the back and most teams have vents on top of the side pod. Would the introduction of a tiny bit of air about 2/3rds of the way back of the floor maybe stabilize the massive amount of suction downforce occurring at the rear of the car and help stabilize it?
I cannot be the only person who has thought of this, smarter people than me are working on these cars night and day. So looking to see if someone has the know how to school me on why it isn't a solution.
I doubt that would be legal. Plus neither me nor you can really predict how that would really work out. I do think too that it would decrease the "sunction" like you said but that would actually be terrible for the teams. They will take any sunction generated they can get. Its never too much. The more the better. Plus they wouldn't need to go to that lengths. Thats basically the same as raising the floor I suppose which is something they can already do. The rick is not to lose any downforce while removing porpoising or limiting it to the straights.
My question is what prohibits Jounce Bumpers for the suspension?
Some trucks built to tow use a small piece to limit suspension travel so the leaf springs can't flatten completely. Is this not possible with push rod/pull rod suspensions?
@@CAFFIENEHOUND anything that you can think of that might help its a safe bet to assume its illegal. I don't know the rules but im sure it is. Ive thought of that myself as well.đđ
@@aldogjipali2835 I figure there is a reason it isn't being used, but hope that someone in the comments of this video could tell me why.
Hello darkness my old friend.
Itâs not a fuel flow sensor? đ
i think you should do a video showing why formula e seems to be better in monaco than f1
I'm so tired of hearing about POORPISSINGđ
Oi, what happened to that prize draw of a few days ago?
Scarbs really needs a new video setup
I'd say audio even more
Clearly the wheel base is to long for these cars on 18â đ
You guys keep using the dde music
Hello Scott and Driver61. Have the winners been announced for the $1000 newsletter sign up?
So now all another driver has to do is accidentally make contact with that bit of car
Anyone else think that they should use the carbon fibre weave in a certain direction like red bull about ten years ago (if they are I'll just shut up)
I think no one was wondering if it was legal or not.
I dont think thats all. Merc hĂĄ the Rod + the skirt ... and sim has the most severe porpoising. This got to me mechanical and no aero solution
Weird that the title is about Ferrari but most of the video is about Red Bull.
imola giving away everything
Why does Scarbs always have terrible audio ?
Ferrari are with 0.2 sec behind Rbr, they must work hard to catch Rbr if they want to win the titles
What about McLaren floor?