These transports were the reason that supplies were brought to a starving Tarsus IV colony, in fraction of the time conventional relief efforts would have taken. The Federation News service had already dubbed the Altar operation, "The Miracle at Tarsus," before the actions of a panicked Governor Kodos were brought to light.
@@brianward4780 Interesting question! I think humans would still need the material necessities of living: Food, water, air, controlled temperature, gravity, etc. I think Picard was saying that humans no longer defined themselves by the material possessions they owned. For instance, house, vehicle, luxury items, etc… Human beings still had possessions, but personal in nature, not indicators of social status. Of course the generalization itself is an issue, for probably there were still some possessive and greedy humans. But the point was probably that most humans by that time had better things to do than accumulate material possessions for their own sake. In the book “All I Really Need to Know I Learned from Watching Star Trek” the author pointed out that even in TOS, crew there only had very limited personal possessions. Instead of collecting material goods, the crew was more interested in collecting experiences. Of course these were Star Fleet officers, and civilians might be more interested in material possessions. In addition, the point might be that humans learned to eliminate conflicts regarding material possessions. The emergence of a “post-scarcity” society where there were virtually unlimited supplies of basic material needs might be a factor in reducing conflict over material possessions. Alrighty, that’s my meaningless opinion… 😃🖖
“East bound and down, 18 starships a pulling. We’re goin’ do what they say can’t be done. We gotta long way to go And a short time to get there. Look at Altair Freight Ways run…”
perhaps adding tug leader or tender to carry the computer systems to ccordinate the tubs, and repair facilities, maybe a phaser to two. would be a good idea.
@@wbnc66 Regarding the tugs, I figured each cargo canister would have a control bridge capable of coordinating the tugs in the convoy. Being modular, the convoy could breakup or combine quite easily then. I put a bridge type structure on the ends of the canisters to represent that idea. Regarding repair, each canister would have a repair/maintenance crew, perhaps having a couple of worker bees in the dock/hanger areas on the side of the canisters. Major repairs could be facilitated by maintenance stations along the warp lane. Regarding defenses, these slow hulks would probably only be used in the well protected warp lanes. The Enterprise, and probably most Star Fleet ships, did not have to use the warp lanes since they would be relatively fast and well armed. So that is probably why we would never see much commercial or private space flight on TOS. I thank you for your comments, it makes me think more about how all this stuff works. Maybe I can do a vid of a convoy stopped for minor repair, worker bees out, and Orion pirates attack. But through procedure, the convoy informed Star Fleet of the stop and repairs , and a couple of Destroyers warp in and kick some Orion butt. If only I could animate a few Orion slave girls beamed over to the controlling cargo canister as a “distraction”… 😛🖖
@@bobfischer "The Orion Ruse" get started on that lol. Glad to hear that you have put some thought into it. Not a lot of thought gets put into commercial and bulk transport in sci fi, I have worked n a couple of TTRPG project on the subject so my brain was already primed to go..:Ok I wish I had thought of that!
Hello. 1. My time period for these videos is TOS Era. Replicators not widely used and relatively primitive. 2. Even in later Trek it was established many substances could not be replicated, needed physical transport. 3. Warp is powered by anti-matter/matter reaction which is not limitless. The warp bubble itself requires these huge energies. 4. Therefore it is logical in the TOS era, maybe beyond, the would need a physical bulk cargo method. Because of the larger warp field and exponential power requirements to sustain it, it would probably be relatively slow, thus warp 2-3. Sorry for being so Trek nerdy, but I spent quite a bit of time on these videos and did think them through. Much of what I I am doing is just extrapolation or just plain making it up, trying to fill in some of the TOS universe. It’s all fictional, but I do try to make it logical at least to the point of being feasible within that world… 😃🖖 Source link given after relevant info from Memory Alpha: In the 23rd century, the United Federation of Planets had not yet perfected replicator technology for ships, though replicators already existed in industrial sites. Replicator technology was, however, in use by The Traveler's species, and the Beta 5 computer utilized replicator technology to manufacture several false identity cards for use by Gary Seven. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") Starships of this time period were equipped with food synthesizers and other devices for producing clothing and machine parts on demand. This was a step forward, but did not achieve the quality and sophistication of the 24th century replicator. Replicator technology was not yet employed on starships as late as 2293. (TOS: "The Naked Time", "The Trouble with Tribbles"; VOY: "Flashback"; DIS: "Context Is for Kings", "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry", "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2") While not employed on starships, food replicators were in household use and able create dishes comparable in quality to home-cooked meals as early as the 2250s (DIS: "Whistle speak") memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator
@@donnasuelove416 Exactly! Being too impatient for reincarnation myself, that is why I am doing the Adventure series… So I can be out there in that exploratory vessel (in my imagination at least) now… 🤣😛🖖
Those would be great for moving people to a new colony but with the Advent of replicators hauling material goods is unnecessary unless you're hauling things that can't be replicated
Replicators not widely used in TOS era. Even in later Treks it was established more complex molecular structures could not be replicated. Hand made goods would be highly valued and so would “original” goods. There also might be a sizable market for unreplicated food, since some people could taste the difference, or perhaps have cultural reasons not to eat replicated food. The replication cost in energy and equipment might make physical shipments, especially lower cost bulk shipments, more economically feasible. And speaking of economics, each star system might have a comparative advantage in producing certain types of goods, so that the efficiency in the specialization of production (think of a whole planet that specializes in just one component of a warp drive engine) would outweigh any advantage in replication. Those worlds might even have very specialized replicators to produce certain types of more complex molecules more efficiently than anywhere else. And many of the later Trek plots concerned a physical shipment of one kind or another. Not much was seen of the civilian side in TOS, but I think it is probable that they would have some sort of bulk cargo system. All fiction, but fun to fill the civilian side out a little. 😀🖖 Reference: In the 23rd century, the United Federation of Planets had not yet perfected replicator technology for ships, though replicators already existed in industrial sites. Replicator technology was, however, in use by The Traveler's species, and the Beta 5 computer utilized replicator technology to manufacture several false identity cards for use by Gary Seven. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") Starships of this time period were equipped with food synthesizers and other devices for producing clothing and machine parts on demand. This was a step forward, but did not achieve the quality and sophistication of the 24th century replicator. Replicator technology was not yet employed on starships as late as 2293. (TOS: "The Naked Time", "The Trouble with Tribbles"; VOY: "Flashback"; DIS: "Context Is for Kings", "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry", "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2") While not employed on starships, food replicators were in household use and able create dishes comparable in quality to home-cooked meals as early as the 2250s (DIS: "Whistle speak") memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator
@@stringercorrales6627 I think they would primarily use bulk cargo transporters, but the occasional physical load ins and load outs would be done with robotic assistance… 😃
You are absolutely right, these would be soft targets for pirates. That is why these convoys would primarily use the well defended warp lanes. But I have thought about making a video of pirates attacking such a convoy, perhaps with a couple of destroyers coming to the rescue… 😃
How can those tiny little “warp tugs” with their little nacelles create a warp bubble large enough to surround a train of 12 kilometer-long cylinders? It MIGHT make more sense if the tugs were positioned all around the cylinders. But this doesn’t make any sense. Warp nacelles have to be large enough and positioned properly to fully engulf the ship they are driving. These teeny little nacelles do neither.
This idea comes from the 1980 publication “Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology”. I just tried to render it as close as I could , given the very basic schematic and short description. That being said, the point of the space tugs is that individually they are insignificant. But when they combine their warp fields there is an exponential increase in their warp capability. All fiction anyway, including the specific science around warp power. But interesting to ponder the whole Federation infrastructure including civilian life that is never seen in TOS. 😀🖖
Not useless for huge quantities of bulk cargo. Example from my own experience: When I moved to the Philippines from the US, my bulk possessions I sent on a cargo ship. It took four months, but I sent it four months before I left so it would be there when I arrived. More sensitive items I FedExed a few days before I left, faster but much more expensive. For emergencies, Star fFeet ships can get out there at warp 7, but for consumer and industrial goods where time is less important than cost, big but slower warp convoys might fill that need. We never really see much of any civilian life in TOS, I am just having fun filling out some of the possibilities.
@bobfischer that's what they said about the J class Frieghter safe in the in the heart of the Federation. Pirates could hit that, and no one would know it.
J class Freighters were before the Federation and the protected warp lanes… Designed even before the Enterprise NX-01. Not a good time to be in the cargo business… 😛🖖
Hello. In a few episodes like “The Trouble with Tribbles” they mention still using credits. It might be that credits are not used on a Starship or Starfleet in general, but used in the civilian population. And since we see so little of civilian life in TOS, I find this area interesting and I think I am going to do some videos on the civilian side of the Federation… 😃🖖
This wouldn't work a warp bubble wouldn't be large enough for this space train the energy requirement would be impossible to do you would have better luck moving a planet each section would require a ship and warp three would be impossible 😊
This idea comes from the 1980 publication “Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology”. I just tried to render it as close as I could , given the very basic schematic and short description. That being said, the point of the space tugs is that individually they are insignificant. But when they combine their warp fields there is an exponential increase in their warp capability. All fiction anyway, including the specific science around warp power. But interesting to ponder the whole Federation infrastructure including civilian life that is never seen in TOS. 😀🖖
Ah,, I don't think so! Even though it's in space try pushing something and keeping it straight? Try turning? At first I thought the little ships were going to be Fighters protecting the cargo? It's made to resemble a train but without the engine up front? Nice looking design, nice graphics but no.😢😢😢😢
Hello! The engine is the space tugs in front and interspersed in the cargo column. This convoy is designed for the warp lanes which are highly protected by StarFleet. The warp lanes are a straight shot, and when it gets to the warp transit points or destination port, the tugs can rotate and maneuver the canisters appropriately, all coordinated by computer control. 😃🖖
It’s about time someone did a video in the “Star Trek” universe that didn’t have to deal with the Federation Starships or space battles too.
This is how we eventually overcome the Klingons. Higher quality materials, better supply chains and eventually a higher quality of life.
That's Papa John's.
@@GoingtoHecq, you ever have pizza with extra gagh and targ? Trust me, Papa John wins…
Super cool. Keep on truckin!!!!!
Very nice concept. basically, a freight train in space! all it's missing is a steam engine to pull it. 🙂
It's a space train being pulled by Cargo Star Freighters.
Guess the Orions are adding train hijacking to their repertoire.
@@Hartzilla2007 😂
These transports were the reason that supplies were brought to a starving Tarsus IV colony, in fraction of the time conventional relief efforts would have taken.
The Federation News service had already dubbed the Altar operation, "The Miracle at Tarsus," before the actions of a panicked Governor Kodos were brought to light.
FEDERATION MOVERS
WE MOVE ANYWHERE
Great job! Sign me up. They might be slower but it's not about the speed, it's the journey. 🖖
Would also be very useful in case of a planetary evacuation.
Now that is Star Trek tech. 🤯
Brilliant work. Thank you.
So i have watched all of your vids up to this point. Found it quite enjoyable.
Space Truckers starring Dennis Hopper:
"Square Pigs for a Square Meal"
I really like the idea of an FTL freight train.
Might even think of it as a Galaxy express...
Picard mentions in TNG, "we've moved beyond the need for material possessions." What do you all think that means?
@@brianward4780 Interesting question!
I think humans would still need the material necessities of living: Food, water, air, controlled temperature, gravity, etc.
I think Picard was saying that humans no longer defined themselves by the material possessions they owned. For instance, house, vehicle, luxury items, etc…
Human beings still had possessions, but personal in nature, not indicators of social status.
Of course the generalization itself is an issue, for probably there were still some possessive and greedy humans.
But the point was probably that most humans by that time had better things to do than accumulate material possessions for their own sake.
In the book “All I Really Need to Know I Learned from Watching Star Trek” the author pointed out that even in TOS, crew there only had very limited personal possessions. Instead of collecting material goods, the crew was more interested in collecting experiences.
Of course these were Star Fleet officers, and civilians might be more interested in material possessions.
In addition, the point might be that humans learned to eliminate conflicts regarding material possessions. The emergence of a “post-scarcity” society where there were virtually unlimited supplies of basic material needs might be a factor in reducing conflict over material possessions.
Alrighty, that’s my meaningless opinion… 😃🖖
Yes, but people still need supplies and want to own personal items. Even if just for sentimental value.
I totally agree with your opinion. It makes perfect sense.
“East bound and down,
18 starships a pulling.
We’re goin’ do what they say can’t be done.
We gotta long way to go
And a short time to get there.
Look at Altair Freight Ways run…”
What a concept!!!
“ Might consider a cargo vessel, whole lot stress there 🔥🥃 “
Counselor Troy
perhaps adding tug leader or tender to carry the computer systems to ccordinate the tubs, and repair facilities, maybe a phaser to two. would be a good idea.
@@wbnc66 Regarding the tugs, I figured each cargo canister would have a control bridge capable of coordinating the tugs in the convoy. Being modular, the convoy could breakup or combine quite easily then. I put a bridge type structure on the ends of the canisters to represent that idea.
Regarding repair, each canister would have a repair/maintenance crew, perhaps having a couple of worker bees in the dock/hanger areas on the side of the canisters. Major repairs could be facilitated by maintenance stations along the warp lane.
Regarding defenses, these slow hulks would probably only be used in the well protected warp lanes. The Enterprise, and probably most Star Fleet ships, did not have to use the warp lanes since they would be relatively fast and well armed. So that is probably why we would never see much commercial or private space flight on TOS.
I thank you for your comments, it makes me think more about how all this stuff works.
Maybe I can do a vid of a convoy stopped for minor repair, worker bees out, and Orion pirates attack. But through procedure, the convoy informed Star Fleet of the stop and repairs , and a couple of Destroyers warp in and kick some Orion butt.
If only I could animate a few Orion slave girls beamed over to the controlling cargo canister as a “distraction”… 😛🖖
@@bobfischer "The Orion Ruse" get started on that lol.
Glad to hear that you have put some thought into it. Not a lot of thought gets put into commercial and bulk transport in sci fi, I have worked n a couple of TTRPG project on the subject so my brain was already primed to go..:Ok I wish I had thought of that!
Very Good Story not shore what else to say Thank You ;
The replicator has made this obsolete.
Hello.
1. My time period for these videos is TOS Era. Replicators not widely used and relatively primitive.
2. Even in later Trek it was established many substances could not be replicated, needed physical transport.
3. Warp is powered by anti-matter/matter reaction which is not limitless. The warp bubble itself requires these huge energies.
4. Therefore it is logical in the TOS era, maybe beyond, the would need a physical bulk cargo method. Because of the larger warp field and exponential power requirements to sustain it, it would probably be relatively slow, thus warp 2-3.
Sorry for being so Trek nerdy, but I spent quite a bit of time on these videos and did think them through. Much of what I I am doing is just extrapolation or just plain making it up, trying to fill in some of the TOS universe. It’s all fictional, but I do try to make it logical at least to the point of being feasible within that world… 😃🖖
Source link given after relevant info from Memory Alpha:
In the 23rd century, the United Federation of Planets had not yet perfected replicator technology for ships, though replicators already existed in industrial sites. Replicator technology was, however, in use by The Traveler's species, and the Beta 5 computer utilized replicator technology to manufacture several false identity cards for use by Gary Seven. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") Starships of this time period were equipped with food synthesizers and other devices for producing clothing and machine parts on demand. This was a step forward, but did not achieve the quality and sophistication of the 24th century replicator. Replicator technology was not yet employed on starships as late as 2293. (TOS: "The Naked Time", "The Trouble with Tribbles"; VOY: "Flashback"; DIS: "Context Is for Kings", "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry", "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2") While not employed on starships, food replicators were in household use and able create dishes comparable in quality to home-cooked meals as early as the 2250s (DIS: "Whistle speak") memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator
If reincarnation happens I want to be a crewman on one of those or an exploration ship.
@@donnasuelove416 Exactly! Being too impatient for reincarnation myself, that is why I am doing the Adventure series… So I can be out there in that exploratory vessel (in my imagination at least) now… 🤣😛🖖
Those would be great for moving people to a new colony but with the Advent of replicators hauling material goods is unnecessary unless you're hauling things that can't be replicated
Replicators not widely used in TOS era. Even in later Treks it was established more complex molecular structures could not be replicated.
Hand made goods would be highly valued and so would “original” goods. There also might be a sizable market for unreplicated food, since some people could taste the difference, or perhaps have cultural reasons not to eat replicated food.
The replication cost in energy and equipment might make physical shipments, especially lower cost bulk shipments, more economically feasible. And speaking of economics, each star system might have a comparative advantage in producing certain types of goods, so that the efficiency in the specialization of production (think of a whole planet that specializes in just one component of a warp drive engine) would outweigh any advantage in replication. Those worlds might even have very specialized replicators to produce certain types of more complex molecules more efficiently than anywhere else.
And many of the later Trek plots concerned a physical shipment of one kind or another.
Not much was seen of the civilian side in TOS, but I think it is probable that they would have some sort of bulk cargo system. All fiction, but fun to fill the civilian side out a little. 😀🖖
Reference:
In the 23rd century, the United Federation of Planets had not yet perfected replicator technology for ships, though replicators already existed in industrial sites. Replicator technology was, however, in use by The Traveler's species, and the Beta 5 computer utilized replicator technology to manufacture several false identity cards for use by Gary Seven. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") Starships of this time period were equipped with food synthesizers and other devices for producing clothing and machine parts on demand. This was a step forward, but did not achieve the quality and sophistication of the 24th century replicator. Replicator technology was not yet employed on starships as late as 2293. (TOS: "The Naked Time", "The Trouble with Tribbles"; VOY: "Flashback"; DIS: "Context Is for Kings", "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry", "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2") While not employed on starships, food replicators were in household use and able create dishes comparable in quality to home-cooked meals as early as the 2250s (DIS: "Whistle speak") memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator
Have fun unloading that
@@stringercorrales6627 I think they would primarily use bulk cargo transporters, but the occasional physical load ins and load outs would be done with robotic assistance… 😃
Less independent ships equals easier for pirates
You are absolutely right, these would be soft targets for pirates. That is why these convoys would primarily use the well defended warp lanes.
But I have thought about making a video of pirates attacking such a convoy, perhaps with a couple of destroyers coming to the rescue… 😃
Like it!
How can those tiny little “warp tugs” with their little nacelles create a warp bubble large enough to surround a train of 12 kilometer-long cylinders? It MIGHT make more sense if the tugs were positioned all around the cylinders. But this doesn’t make any sense. Warp nacelles have to be large enough and positioned properly to fully engulf the ship they are driving. These teeny little nacelles do neither.
This idea comes from the 1980 publication “Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology”. I just tried to render it as close as I could , given the very basic schematic and short description.
That being said, the point of the space tugs is that individually they are insignificant. But when they combine their warp fields there is an exponential increase in their warp capability.
All fiction anyway, including the specific science around warp power. But interesting to ponder the whole Federation infrastructure including civilian life that is never seen in TOS. 😀🖖
Space barges?
Yes, for transport of bulk materials… 😃🖖
Warp 3? So they are basically useless...
Not useless for huge quantities of bulk cargo. Example from my own experience: When I moved to the Philippines from the US, my bulk possessions I sent on a cargo ship. It took four months, but I sent it four months before I left so it would be there when I arrived. More sensitive items I FedExed a few days before I left, faster but much more expensive. For emergencies, Star fFeet ships can get out there at warp 7, but for consumer and industrial goods where time is less important than cost, big but slower warp convoys might fill that need. We never really see much of any civilian life in TOS, I am just having fun filling out some of the possibilities.
Sitting duck for piracy.
But safe in the warp lanes, that is my next video… 😃🖖
@bobfischer that's what they said about the J class Frieghter safe in the in the heart of the Federation. Pirates could hit that, and no one would know it.
J class Freighters were before the Federation and the protected warp lanes… Designed even before the Enterprise NX-01. Not a good time to be in the cargo business… 😛🖖
3:06 - Train sound LoL. Still using credits eh?
Hello.
In a few episodes like “The Trouble with Tribbles” they mention still using credits.
It might be that credits are not used on a Starship or Starfleet in general, but used in the civilian population.
And since we see so little of civilian life in TOS, I find this area interesting and I think I am going to do some videos on the civilian side of the Federation… 😃🖖
@@bobfischerI want to know if there were robber barons and whatever happened to Hedley Lamarr.
@@Tedinator01 I can see Orion pirates trying to rob the cargo train… Hadley Lamar as an Orion Pirate with a green Lili Von Shtupp by his side! 🤣🖖
@@bobfischer and Mongo?
@@Tedinator01 Mongo? I think the Orion pirates might have a rogue Pakled on board… 😁🖖
This wouldn't work a warp bubble wouldn't be large enough for this space train the energy requirement would be impossible to do you would have better luck moving a planet each section would require a ship and warp three would be impossible 😊
This idea comes from the 1980 publication “Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology”. I just tried to render it as close as I could , given the very basic schematic and short description.
That being said, the point of the space tugs is that individually they are insignificant. But when they combine their warp fields there is an exponential increase in their warp capability.
All fiction anyway, including the specific science around warp power. But interesting to ponder the whole Federation infrastructure including civilian life that is never seen in TOS. 😀🖖
Can't see it happening. But great video.
In the 23rd century yes. In the Federation's replicator driven post scarcity economy & technology, no.
So they would eventually become obsolete by the 24th century of the TNG era
Toob
Ah,, I don't think so! Even though it's in space try pushing something and keeping it straight? Try turning? At first I thought the little ships were going to be Fighters protecting the cargo? It's made to resemble a train but without the engine up front? Nice looking design, nice graphics but no.😢😢😢😢
Hello! The engine is the space tugs in front and interspersed in the cargo column. This convoy is designed for the warp lanes which are highly protected by StarFleet. The warp lanes are a straight shot, and when it gets to the warp transit points or destination port, the tugs can rotate and maneuver the canisters appropriately, all coordinated by computer control. 😃🖖
@@bobfischer . I didn't see the tugs up front just in the middle. Thanks for clearing it up!