Is Nintendo's Online Service a SCAM? | Nontendo Podcast #39
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2023
- Is Nintendo Online a SCAM? Game vouchers? DLC? Retro game library? Bob and Wood discuss their thoughts on Nintendo Switch Online and how it compares to other video game subscription services. | Subscribe to Nontendo Podcast on CZcams ►► tinyurl.com/2p8sk9f8
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#nontendopodcast #nintendo #podcast #beatemups #wulffden #woodhawker #bobwulff #nintendo #gaming #videogames - Hry
Software Engineer here. I don't work specifically on games, but I think I can offer some insight about why online game launches are never smooth. Without getting too deep and technical, there are basically 2 major factors that come to mind:
1. Honestly, I think the main reason is $$$. No company is ever going to pay for more servers than they need. They'll always err on the side of having too few servers. Especially because they know the number of concurrent players will drop dramatically after a little while, and then they'd have a bunch of idle servers that they're paying for.
2. Bob kind of touched on this. It's actually really difficult to replicate real-world usage and parameters during QA testing. Even if you do have the time and resources to do proper load testing, the one thing you can't account for is how users will interact with your software. They'll probably do some weird stuff that you just didn't account for that puts extra load on the system.
Sure, but modern server infrastructure can be scaled up and down dynamically. They don't need to pay a bunch of unused servers for months, they can pay for all the servers for a few days, then scale back to whatever they actually need.
@cargath I actually agree with your thought, and would love to see some sort of work to the system at hand but unless a conpany has its own servers, in house (and I'd assume some large companies do), many games will probably only be able to do one month agreements with the hosting company... and some games' concurrent player counts can drop off in a week... which means they will still err toward "minimum viable" value as opposed to "maximum possible"
@@cargath I don't think that's true at all, and I'm just an outsider. I'm just observing. Look at happened when Falls Guys laughed. It was too popular and they didn't have enough servers. It took WEEKS to fix the problem.
If they could just scale up or down easily as you think they can, than what couldn't they? It makes me think the problem is different.
@@thinkhector I'm also a software engineer and we work with a suite of products that are cloud based. The cloud service providers can indeed scale resources up and down based on load if your subscription plan allows for it. So, what cargath mentioned is mostly true, but it is limited by the quality of the provider they are using as well as the plan they pay for. If I had to guess, I'd say they have their own local infrastructure and they aren't using any provider that can scale resources dynamically.
@@tony_0088 If companies can scale up and down servers there isn't any evidence of this in the video game world. Look at how many free 2 play games are being shutdown because of "server costs." Well if the cost of the server is scaled to the number is uses then it should be completely feasible to make money even of a small to medium player base. The markets just don't bare out what you are saying.
coffee shops are honestly a vibe, i don’t care if there’s extra noise really, it’d be pretty cool and unique to have more coffee shop podcasts
You calling out minish cap, superstar saga, and golden sun before this stuff was even revealed is the most hype, like I cant even! Bless the GBA ❤
I really like how the Police Sirens came screeching by right as you guys were talking about sharing a Netflix Subscription. I couldn't tell for sure, but I don't think that was a sound-byte based on Wood's reaction.
Wow, the vouchers seem like a rip off in the USA. On the Australian eshop it's $130 for the vouchers and the games are valued at $75-$90 each
Nintendo was like crap they’re gonna release this episode, we gotta launch the gameboy on Nintendo online and make those vouchers worth it with tears of the kingdom 😂 I enjoy these episodes even when they’re dated a bit, such interesting conversation!
Same. For a long time in my life I was nintendo only fan but as soon as the ps4 came out I feel like I mainly only play my ps5 now.
I actually really like the idea of unique avatars you can earn by completing specific achievements in games.
Wait, you haven’t had that voucher thing going in the US?! I’ve been buying all my first party games with those for the past few years 😂 such a good deal!
Hey, Nic Weaver here! I am enjoying the Nontendo podcast and am happy to hear the horns I recorded from Fiverr still being used in your jingle : )
It has to be so awesome to hear your work open the show!
@@aignemakerofchase It is fun to hear it open and close the podcast! When I saw the name 'WULF DENN" on my Fiverr page I originally did a double take!
The audio quality from whoever is off screen is really poor. Pity because his contributions are really good.
Voucher system has been going all the time in the EU as well. So weird it didn’t continue in the US.
That comment about Wood being a spy made my brain go off on a whole thing about Agent 00-Wood: Licenced to Stream.
I think the film world would really take notice.
In my state gift cards are not allowed to expire. Many states have similar laws. So even after a year or two,if you end up finding an old gift card; they have to accept it. Most stores don’t expire them after a year anyway. Gift cards and vouchers allow companies to bring in revenue in the current quarter and also guarantee that revenue. Makes it a lot easier to forecast and budget when you have their money ahead of time.
Its crazy, i dont care about my switch or nintendo at all anymore but this is still one of my favorite podcasts
Man you should care you will miss out in 2023
@@TheSpeedfoever well i still have my switch if i need it!
I was gonna reply that I love my switch and then I realized I haven't touched it once since I got my Steam Deck. I mean, I do still love my Switch, and I'll return to it when it's time.
@@Mrjamjams66 Mmm, if there wasn’t a good reason, there is now. If you haven’t played Metroid Prime, I seriously recommend it. I kid you not when I say it is one of the best games I have ever played and it is seriously worth a shot. Trust me, 40 bucks is a steal for a game like this. But it’s just a suggestion :p
Literally. They're just entertaining
Thank you both years ago you helped convince my wife to get a switch. Skip forward 4years and we now have 3 in our house.
i don't think $20 is enough of a savings for me to risk buying something with so many rules and stipulations attatched to it
Just mod your switch
18:18 What? I know some gift cards can start draining value after a year, but I've never seen any that expire outright before years and years have passed. And even then, you can usually call the card company (phone number / website on card itself) and they'll literally mail you a new card with the remaining value on it. Rewards stuff from companies like Nintendo and such, that's a different ballpark but also is usually a year or more of time to redeem.
I assumed this was an American thing. Here in Canada there's legislation to essentially ban gift cards from expiring.
For countries that don’t have the American discount, the vouchers are much bigger savings. For me it is 9980 yen, and some games on the list are 8500 yen. TotK is 7900 for reference.
If you have the basic NOL subscription, the savings for doing it once is basically like getting your annual subscription price back.
Personally, with all the retro games you're able to play regardless of N64 full functionality, plus not having to pay for the new tracks for MK is great in my book honestly. But I may be alone on that boat
Nice hanging out with you guys! Even with slightly outdated discussion it was still great, lol. Also I grabbed the vouchers as soon as Zelda at $70 was official. Grabbed a pre-order for that and also Advance Wars 1-2 Reboot, saving $30! :)
Hello, bicoastal traveler here. Have you guys given any thought to meeting in and or around the Elizabeth, NJ area? For Bob, you should be able to drive through Staten Island & avoid Manhattan traffic. For Wood, you should be able to take the turnpike straight up to Elizabeth. I know avoiding traffic in the NY/NJ area is never easy, but this might be a better compromise for both parties. Just wanted to offer a helpful suggestion as I often am struggling with the same issue as you guys are. Hope this helps!
On the pokemon games conversation, I want Nintendo to add pokemon red/blue/yellow and pokemon gold/silver in pokemon stadium 1 & 2 in gameboy tower and enable online multiplayer. That should be a n64 experience everyone should be allowed to experience online
Referring to the free game on Wii u, if you bought Mario kart 8 they would give you a code for certain games including Pikmin 3. I remember Scott The Woz talking about it...
Am I the only one who wasn’t a fan of this podcast at first but now it is a sure favorite? I mean seriously, something about their conversations and chemistry just works so well and is so genuinely entertaining
Yes. You're the only one.
I will say that it is incredibly hard to get my friends to set up emulators and set up controls and then getting an online thing running so everyone can connect. I can definitely handle the setup process but trying to get other friends in on it proves to be a huge hurdle to get over, like spending an hour trying to get something working when we could have done something else
Nintendo simplifying all of this so that we can just connect and play older games easily like mario party or potentially kirby and the amazing mirror is a *huge* selling point for me since I just wanna involve friends playing these. The $80 price hurts, dont get me wrong but if it lowers the barrier of entry so I can enjoy these with close friends in a more accessible way... I'll take it.
I agree completely. I LOVE nintendo adding n0nline expansion games for this reason. And now adding GBA/GB color games :D so fun if they add more and more GBA and then some GC online service? phewww.
*@TheEclipsedLock*
What country do you live in the world (is it Canada, Australia or New Zealand?)??? The reason why I'm asking this is because the Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack costs $50.00 in the U.S.; but I live in Canada - where *_everything_* costs more than in the U.S., and yet we still use the Dollar ("$") as our currency.
@@StevenVillman In the US but I have the family plan to include my friends in :P I also have a few canadian friends in on it as well and yikes I have heard that things are very much more expensive up there unfortunately; my condolences
@@TheEclipsedLock Oh, okay, then... and I thank you!
@@TheEclipsedLock Also, because you live in the U.S., how does having Canadian friends on your plan work there - what with the different (Dollar) currencies between the 2 countries, you and some of your friends who are on your plan in being in 2 different countries, and stuff like that?
Prime is a weird example of a game that borders between remaster and remake
I agree with you both that it's a remake disguised as a remaster. Supposedly one of the devs said they lost the editing tool for the original base code so essentially the game had to be manually re created from scratch.
that was all a lie because it is just a remaster...
@@jesusbarrera6916 go warch the comparison video and it's clearly more than that..tou don't add new elements in a remaster
They likely called it thst for.marketing our poses as if you call it a remake fans will be upset expecting a night and day difference like the newer re games
@@maxisenberg9093 you can add whatever you want in either a remake or remaster.... That has no burden on what it is
The only point to make it a remake is if it is REMADE from scratch, why do you go watch the backstage textures? Or how it still had the same gamecube game breaking bug that they had to patch...
Stop being fanboys for a second and grow some standards
@@jesusbarrera6916 whatever you need to tell yourself.. not gonna argue with a troll..
@@maxisenberg9093 "somebody proved I am a fan of.... They must be a troll"
Classic
don't forget save game backups and that you can basically play seamless in between your switches
Who is going to tell Wood he doesn’t get GBA on the $20 plan?
This doesn't even feel like a podcast, it feels like a Talk Show, and I love it for that.
All the podcasts I listen to are pretty much just talk shows. I love hearing people talk about life.
Like talk shows of the 20th century though. More similar to JRE than, The View, for example.
I mean theyre basically the same thing...
They didn't fix the Goldeneye controls on Xbox, the default controls don't let you circle strafe at the speed you could in the original, plus really what the game needs is aiming with right stick when you're not cursor aiming, but then when you do activate cursor aiming its controlled by the left stick - left stick is what we all have cemented in our muscle memory on the n6, you could argue strafing with C is important but that's not as locked in as the game's main control mechanic which was the cursor aiming while on the spot!. You could get close on the Pro Controller on Switch by mapping the C buttons to the face buttons but they could have done so much more to make that game feel both modern and still work with our nostalgic muscle memory.
I gotta say not too dated conversation, great podcast still :D I was wrong overall :D
But guys if they do Nintendo Pass plans for the year ( like xbox next 12 mth) That would be great, to get like "coming next month these games" then we could hold nintendo online service a bit to the fire more! now they just say... coming soon... I mean Pokemon stadium better launch soon. Iff they get retro games plan sorted out ANDD online infrastructure.. I already LOVE the nintendo fan base :D I already love the nintendo games you get dropped to your lap.. FOR tv, or oLED on the go :D
The eating on a podcast will forever be a killer, lip slapping sounds great.
You forgot about the Cloud Saves for Switch Online. Online backup of your save files in case your Switch is lost or stolen (or corrupted, damaged, etc.). That's one of the main benefits for a lot of people. We just get the annual family plan for me, my wife, and my brother.
Honestly I love your videos. I listen to your podcast while I do homework.
The addition of Gameboy, Gameboy Color, and Gameboy Advance games was fantastic! As of now, the main things that stick in my craw with Nintendo's Online service are 1.) No native voice chat is IMO completely unacceptable and 2.) Finding friends is a colossal pain with having to use that Switch social security number! If Nintendo could fix those two issues, everything would be just about perfect! Oh and Nintendo needs to add some kind of trophy system to the Switch.
@15:16 Wood is referencing a program that was for digital games I believe. I got Monster Hunter 3U that way.
Ya know, you two sounded kinda embarrassed about your incorrect assumptions, but Wood's initial list of games was crazy impressive
I was just thinking that too.
Think what Bob was thinking about with voice chat in a first party game, you could plug in a headset and use in game voice chat in Splatoon 2, but not online, only in Lan.
By law, for a few years now, gift cards can never expire, at least in the US.
Gl getting companies to honor it or a judge to even hear your case at such a low value
did the podcast episode about the reaction to the direct after it happened get deleted?
My only issue with the service is the borders I want wide screen for every game. No excuses imo when the Wii had wide screen for all its games
Not all systems can support widescreen dolphin for example a fantastic gamecube emulator CAN support widescreen but on most games it will cause visual artifacting outside the 4:3 aspect ratio area of the screen while widescreen is an awesome idea in concept please consider that these games were designed with crt screens or in the gameboys instance a tiny low res non lit screen from the 80's! The games are still fantastic and will look great on your tv though some of my personal favourites being super metroid and super mario land 2 :)
18:36 anyone with a Costco membership, $50 eShop cards are $39.99 on sale now until April 9th, 2023. You could buy a pair (so $100 for $79.98), buy the vouchers, pre-order Zelda TotK and use the remaining voucher on a $60 game and essentially pay $9.98 for it. That’s $50.02 in savings
The game with the solar sensor Bob was talking about is Boktai. It was made by Kojima.
Yeah I had no idea the voucher thing had even stopped over there! No change whatsoever in the UK. Really odd!
If Wood actually blocked a guy for the i miss Australian Wood comment then thats super petty
I’m just writing this again here because maybe it wasn’t seen before but can anybody tell me if they rotate the list of patrons? Because I have been one from the beginning but in the last few videos I have not seen my name on the Patreon list did they show at the end
That promotion Wood's talking about around 15 minutes in was the "buy Mario Kart 8 and get a free game" that took place in 2014. That's actually how I got my copy of Mario Kart 8.
Can one share the voucher with another person within that Nintendo online family membership?
much glad the actual video only goes on for a little over 12 mins, makes getting through it very easy
The voucher thing just isn't that complicated. Buy the voucher, save it for 2 brand new $60 (or $70) games you don't want to wait for a sale on and you save $20. They basically reimburse your $20/year NSO sub. It's not amazing but $20 is $20. I preordered TotK with it so I guess that's $30
Yeah but if you’re getting online just for the voucher you’re wasting your time.
@@ThePhil-Osopher yeah definitely, but that's not the point. It's basically saying "as long as you have 2 full price Nintendo exclusives you want we will give you a discount the same cost as a year of NSO so you get the games you already wanted and the NSO is free
You’re right, it’s definitely a saving. Or, if you don’t mind waiting to save more, all Nintendo games go on sale for 33% eventually (well, they have done so far here in UK)
I believe with the voucher, you still get gold points, which is even extra savings on future games!
Still a scam
Are the vouchers limited time purchase? I see myself buying it when two games on the list are available instead of pre purchasing it. And if someone buys it for you as a gift, that’s free money the gifted usually won’t care how or when you spend it but you got a year to purchase.
Wood, you and/or Kim may dig the Nintendo app's Animal Crossing bonuses. They're cute.
Just want to point out that Star Wars Bounty Hunter was already one of the SW games that Aspyr remastered for PS4 & Switch (and the OG Xbox version is BackCompat on Xbone/Xbox Series)
I think it's ridiculous that if I buy a physical Nintendo Switch game that's been out for a year or more I can't get gold coins for it even though I spent my money on it.
Something else to consider is that you can get vouchers multiple times. So yes you have to pay the $20 for the subscription which sort of negates the savings of the vouchers, but then if you do the vouchers again you end up saving more
I like how Nintendo emails and reminds you about your points expiring too! But yeah I put little games I would never buy full price on my wish list and wait until they are a few dollars and use those on my gold points.
Here in Sweden Zelda is 700 kr now, and he voucher is 1049 kr for two games. so yeah, when some games are 60-70 here (600-700 kr) we are saving on it.
Bob was talking about his 'little Mii' so much at 25:00, that this podcast should be rated 18+.
About giftcards it became uch a problem in Quebec that itsn ow outright illegal to block redeeming a gift card that has valid currency. They then started charging fees if the card was older than a year "upkeep costs of keeping it ctive that long" so now /thats/ illegal too, gift cards are cash equivalent
The voucher thing is valid for Tears of The Kingdom, at least here in the UK.
It’s valid here now in the us too after the direct, I think they made this episode before it happened :)
It's from the original source code, of the version put into the triligoy
Rogue Squadron 2 and 3 were both Gamecube games. I mostly played 2 and it was awesome, one of our first gamecube games along with Smash Melee.
Are the episodes ad-free on Patreon?
Yes. They never put an ad, just talk. For the bonus episodes. Patreons get the normal episodes also (which include the ads)
@@GoldChocobo77 Thanks for the info, really appreciate it!
I do think that NSO and NSO + Expansion reveal may replace the Smash Reveal kind of excitement.
We kinda had the mii thing but it was on mobile called miitomo, I had a link outfit on my mii with master sword and hylian shield and it shown on you my Nintendo account, one day mine just defaulted to my old mii and the outfit is gone ☹️
Since we talk about 3ds also, please make a podcast for that and the eshop closing
Would be cool if you opened the coffee shop equivalent of the barcade
With the gold points, if you buy a physical game then you have to redeem them but if you buy a digital game then you get the gold points automatically
The pre and post show discussion, Wood's audio being out of synch is maddening!
Ironically, the least convoluted lobby system on Switch is the game(s) with the most online bugs. Pokemon S/V actually use room codes for union circle and raids. Also, King Skoot is right about all the stuff for Splatoon 3
The only thing that could save Nintendo for me is the inclusion of at least two AAA current games in the online service each month. I just don't play my switch anymore because the games are too expensive and I have a Miyoo Mini that plays alll the games that are 25 years old. Nintendo is just not a competitive option when compared to other game services.
Can we talk about how awesome the LEGO games on switch are! 👏
This was a great podcast. I hope you guys cover something else other than Nintendo stuff in the future. There are tons of gaming stuff out there to talk about.
Nintendo switch online is definitely the weakest out of the three online services but I am extremely happy with it. It is the cheapest and also has been increasing in value. I originally signed up for it because of the Mario kart DLC and I was debating on, just purchasing the DLC it straight out. Luckily, I signed up for the extension pass, which I would end up getting due to game boy advance be on there and N64. So overall, it’s probably worth the value now if it wasn’t before.
Most of Nintendo games don't have "servers" those are simply peer-to-peer connection...the only server interaction going on in the middle is the validity check that you are subscripted to the online service. But Splatoon specifically runs entirely on a peer-to-peer connection basis, no servers involved...that's why it sucks...previous games had better netcode 'cuz there were servers involved.
Wouldn't surprise me if nintendo intentionally raised the price of zelda purely to justify the cost of the vouchers
Regarding the comment on Eternal Darkness (which I would LOVE to get again), just because they published it doesn't mean they own the rights. Rights ownership and different parts of the rights (distribution, IP, merchandising) are all negotiated as part of the publishing agreement. So it can be very complicated.
If you put it perspective depending on the state you live in NSO expansion pack is a little over 4 dollars a month. It's 4.54 a month here in my state. So that's pretty fair to me.
So here's a thought: Since NSO has the voucher program for Switch games, who would be interested in the same if NSO put out a NSO voucher program for *GameCube* titles? Say 2 for $50? Would that be a smart and useful expansion program that Nintendo would also be interested in developing?
Well you're paying $50 a year for the gba games. Not quite $3 per month. more like $4.
I would love GameCube. Phantasy star specifically with online capability
I feel nintendo should have kept miis and added patches as their acheivements, you could just slap them on your mii and the 100% could be a pin
Starfighter and Jedi Starfighter were on ps2 and later Xbox
I’m sorry wood I got my switch when the OLED came out and I use the switch online expansion. My wife loves nes and snes games on there and now I have a couple of my favorite gameboy games
Smash Bros Wii U had a voucher for a free game. I still have the Wind Waker HD downloaded from the offer.
Both Smash Bros and BotW have been 20% more than standard Nintendo priced games in Europe, since those games launched. The US are now having to pay 16.7% more for TotK but Europe are still paying 20% more.
Yellowstone. Yellowstone is on Peacock. I have never seen it.
or on BNB kinda cafe country side kind of set up 1:00:00
I guess i'm pretty alone with this opinion, but i _like_ that Nintendo doesn't provide built-in voice chat. If there was built-in voice chat, you'd be expected to participate in it. And i don't need 12 year olds screaming at me when i want to play a few casual matches of Splatoon. And if you're playing with friends, you're probably using some other form of communication already anyway.
Thanks for reminding me to cancel my online subscription 😂
Haven't used that in months
What happen to episode 38?
Even with the Gameboy, it's still a ripoff. I've kept PS+ since day 1, i reevaluate if i should reactivate switch online each month. Been out for 6 months now
It has been confirmed that the code base is the original, so it's more a remaster than a remake in my opinion. That being said, does it even matter what we call it? It's a damn good port from what I've heard (not a Metroid fan), and that's all that counts.
QUESTION: I want to clarify something. If I get out of NSO, what'll happen to booster passes, expansion passes, etc????? I forgot if Pokemon Home was a part of NSO, but if it is, will I lose access to my pokemons????
Yes you would lose access to the expansions. It will kick you to the store to purchase. As far as things you already have in game, I think you would be OK. For example, in ACNH going to island on the expansion pass gives you items. You can't go back to the island but you still have the items
Pokémon home is not part of nso but it should be.
I miss Australian work also
You can tell Bob is from new York by the fact he didn't even notice let alone react to the siren 😂
You can get physical merch with the silver coins
I think I wouldn't consider metroid a remake or remaster with specifically what they've done with that maybe 'upgrade' would be better?
you can get preowned games for lowkey 20 dollars online from different parts of the earth
Damn, I live in Jersey and it hurts