Republic 3
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 11. 2023
- Tonight we discuss book 3 of Plato's Republic.
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @dr.michaelsugrue
This is the official CZcams channel of Dr. Michael Sugrue.
Please consider subscribing to be notified of future videos, as we upload Dr. Sugrue's vast archive of lectures.
Dr. Michael Sugrue earned his BA at the University of Chicago and PhD at Columbia University.
You have made all of western philosophy available to anyone. This contribution can’t be overstated. Thank you.
My dear Professor rest in peace.Let your Increadible wisdom reasonate for generations.RIP.
I regret that I only now discovered Professor Sugrue. What an amazing collection of lectures!
As a Paramedic who struggled with all the darkness of society, you have made my perspective on dealing with the worst parts of modern society a lot clearly and I spread your message to any peer that I can see going through a great internal strife. I'm very grateful for your contributions to make a lonely paramedic feel very proud and virtuous. I hope you have a wonderful thanksgiving. 😊
I have been seeking for years without knowing exactly what for, but now i feel i have arrived at the well and now i want to carry the buckets of this water out there into the desert from where i came. Thank you Dr Sugrue i am grateful for your teachings
"...frees you from your ignorance, ironically, leaving you with nothing."
Thank you for demystifying so much knowledge once again, it is priceless.
There is nothing more important for a society than raising young minds in a healthy way.
It’s still a huge issue today, even with all the available knowledge.
Greetings from Serbia.
Wishing you a swift recovery.
Eagerly waiting for more content, take care!
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.......especially when Dr. Sugrue is lecturing!
18:30 "Because walking around in circles, preparing for death, is the epitome of philosophical living."
You have fulfilled that, Brother Mike. Rest in peace.
"All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato."
Thank you, again, for the Illuminating lecture, Professor
Dr. Sugrue, I read The Republic last month after seeing your lecture. It was an amazing book and I know I will have to revisit it again to learn even more. Thanks for all you do.
You have no idea how much I’ve started looking forward to these Dr. Sugrue 🙏🏻
This is no sugrue.
Thanks for all that words of wisdom, for us the viwers are light in this age of darkness.
Age of darkness? Why?
Globally, generally, humans have never lived in such prosperity as today.
@@hexahills3dNor have we lived with equally, such depravity of the soul
Dr. Sugrue continues to blow my mind. One lecture like this is a plethora of intellectual heights that leaves me wonderfully filled.
@@sorryfeds3 True. Well then, as fate would have it.
The Platonic Dialogue, indeed
Book 3 of Plato’s _Republic_
Republic 3
Is a poetic book
AND is a Philosophical Book 📖
0:43 Republic 3: The Attack on Homer’s Illiad and Odyssey
3:40 Republic 3
6:30 Athens breaks up because it received
- Inadequate Education
- Led astray
- Bad Role Models
- Seduced by their own cleverness
7:22 Ex. Euripides _Medea_ 🎭
- A Young girl betrays her family, murders her brother.
9:05 Plato finds this a terrible example for bringing up the youth of Athens with!
10:42 Comedy and Tragedy 🎭 are filled with
- immoral role models
- immoral tendencies
Ex. Aristophanes _Lystrada_ 🎭
11:52 Madness affects children.
12:33 Children should have good influences, not bad influences.
13:38 Plato: Greece needs a complete cultural overhaul
15:07 Abolishing All of Greek Literature 🚫📚
15:48 An Ironic Philosophical Odyssey of The Soul. 🙏🏼
17:25 Socrates, 🤔 💭
+ The Intellectual Warrior
+ Socrates Frees You From Your Ignorance by Leaving You With Nothing.
18:29 + Preparing For Death is The Epitome of Philosophical Living 🪦💐
18:43 Socrates replaces Comedy and Tragedy.
19:23 “Because he’s just going back home to Heaven.” 🏠
19:59 Plato supercedes all prior greek literature, 22:00
• he attempts to resolve all problems of the previous age.
20:39 Platonism is a covert Monotheism without Revelation, climbing the intellectual ladder of beauty to see Beauty.
22:36 Platonic Monotheism
• Getting to the Divine Through Reason, Through The Philosopher King who contacts The Divine.
23:31 The last gasp of The Good is like The Sun ☀️
23:48 Language Collapses at some point trying to talk about The Absolute One
25:46 The Guardian’s education is the most important thing.
+ The mistakes are all there, ready to be made
+ What protects a Guardian is his education from birth to age 35
26:37 Examination. Assigned Different Roles given different capacities.
• Athletics
• Arts and Sciences/The Muses
27:30 _Suited to their age and capacity_
28:29 Strict Regiment of Education
0-35 Education
35-50 Use That Education to Serve Society
29:20 Olympic Gymnastic Teams 🤸♂️ 🥇
31:02
Education of The Body
Education of The Mind
31:30 Finding Universal Truth, unbound by culture
32:10 Studying The Process by which Living Things Go, in an empirical way.
35:13 Male & Female Guardians should be given _the same_ education.
+ Be quick (and effective) in doing rational works
37:14 Smartness is a greater telling quality than Sexual Orientation.
39:47
Achilles - Dumb
Odysseus - Sly
Socrates + The Improvement on Achilles and Odysseus
40:37 Creating A Ruling Class That Is
+ Benevolent
+ Looks Out For The Interests of All
+ Ascetic Priesthood
41:24 + The Least-Exploitive Regime
42:55
The Philosophical Class 🤔
The Defender Class, defending against The Wolves 🗡️🪖🛡️
44:03 Plato assumes Human Inequality.
44:37 Optimism of Greek Culture.
Gymnast 🤸♂️ Perfect Human Shape, Perfect Human Education, Perfect Human Soul.
45:17 The Myth of The Metals 🥇🥈🥉
46:00
🥇Gold Soul
🥈Silver Soul
🥉Bronze Soul
47:30 A Noble Lie
Lying To People
48:23 Some people can understand The Truth, most people can’t.
49:36 Ex. The Myth of Santa Claus 🎅
52:07 Plato is Optimistic 🤩
+ Human Beings are Perfectable
+ Able to be Developed
+ Healthy
+ Disciplined
+ Trained Into Greatness
Holy smokes
Awesome!
For those seeking the impatient side of philosophy...
Thank you for your contribution, this is awesome
You are the true hero
Thanks for swinging by, Homie! I hope you're doing well. Looking sharp!
Thank you for another thought-provoking lecture, Dr Sugrue
Once I listened to your famous lecture about Marcus Aurelius , I was hooked. With regard to this, I find it very surprising that Plato could be capable of "professional jealousy" Superb channel. Thank you Michael
Dr Sugrue, please don't take this the wrong way but it seems you've lost some weight and are looking refreshed and healthier.
This is great news for listeners like me who're eager for more of your knowledge.
You are an amazing teacher!
He looks and sounds incredible!
I can still see the younger self in him. GOLD!
A commendable endeavor, doable but we must start early in childhood and even the playing field for all. A very special assignment for mankind on the Earth. Thank you Professor.
This is why we are all here for you Professor. Thank you for everything you do!
NOTES:
Book 3 of Plato's "Republic" Analysis: Examines poetry and philosophy's blend, focusing on the critique of Homer's portrayal of moral issues.
Impact on Education and Morality: Discusses how cultural narratives like Homer's works shape moral character and youth education.
Plato's Critique of Greek Culture: Links Athens' decline to flawed moral education influenced by literature.
New Educational Paradigm: Proposes education focused on moral and aesthetic virtues to develop ideal citizens.
Guardians in Plato's Society: Envisions a ruling class educated from childhood in physical, intellectual, and moral disciplines.
Gender Equality in Education: Advocates for education based on intellectual ability, not gender.
The 'Noble Lie': Uses myths to instill moral behavior in those unable to grasp complex ethics.
Human Perfectibility through Education: Plato's belief in improving human nature via disciplined training and education.
Plato's Lasting Impact: Influence on Western philosophy and the ideal of human perfectibility.
I love this man. So intelligent. Always has been.
Thank you for this recording! My questions are, what is the existential arbutus limb of being a Philosopher Queen, specifically to thinkers like Beauvoir? What is the ultimate Technocratic, and Autocracy version of the Republic? Does the Republic ever discuss the eschatology of transhumanism, and posthumanism, within a Presocratic context? Why is human nature riddled with paradoxology, and how is it that humanity is chained to the notions of political choice theory, in a riddled Sisyphus-like labyrinth of conductivity? Also, why is humanism considered essential to the Republic's teleology? Finally, how is Joyce's Finnegan's Wake most like the Republic, and what would a mereological fusion of both holistic works resemble in Aesthetic?
Thank You! I appreciate you and your amazing lectures so much!!
Those of us blessed with the access to this knowledge, I sincerely hope we do something beautiful with it.
thank you very much for your dedication to teaching Dr. Sugrue.
Thank you!! I also really enjoyed your discussions with Darren and Peter about the state of the humanities. Would love to see more ❤
I go back and listen to it periodically as an inspiration
We need a Darren and Michael unhinged series please
I miss Michael!
This is amazing!
He did want to create perfect people, thanks Plato!
Will never happen. Perfect does not exist...Maybe the next species.
Dear Dr. Michael Sugrue,
Have been following you for a few weeks now, watching something every day - having missed history, philosophy, theology, and much literature, all of which you seem to possess abundant knowledge. This morning was The Book of Job.
Am wondering if you have read the works of P.D. Ouspensky, George Gurdjieff, and Rodney Collin?
Would very much enjoy listening to your views. Know you’re not so fond of mystics but think you’re pretty open to learning what moved certain writers to share their offerings. Gurdjieff connects back to a sufi tradition.
Anyway, will keep watching in case something is offered.
Thank you and All my best, Karen
Listen, Plato: I had a lovely edition of the Greek tragedies, but someone tore some pages out of Media. Did Euripides? If so, could Eumenides?
Brilliant, thank you!
Superb!
Does anybody know if the new Thucydides lecture is going to come back? I know the video had a problem but the lecture was excellent.
Thanks!
walking around in circles... so deep
Thank you 👏🏼
Thank you!!!!
Mr Sugrue didn't mention the infanticide and communal wives thing ?
Love it
mike is cool
Clear and insightful. Would like to hear why exactly you believe Nietzsche thought that Plato’s ideas are pernicious. It seems to me that this is evidently true but that Nietzsche still wanted to take the best from Homer and the best from Plato.
The Trane picture is awesome
You should do a video about your own personal philosophy. You've read so many philosophers, have you put something together from all of it? One has to imagine that it's somewhat cohesive, even if one or two ideas can't be reconciled. I consider myself a Stoic Buddhist, is there something you would label yourself as?
What do I think?
Moral perfectibility seems a better aim than moral relativism. But all things in due moderation.
You’re on to something there
I think it's a fine lesson for children that you could do evil and get away with it and that there is no justice in the world unless man made . The alternative as you see in History is much worse .
What dialogue would you reccomend after reading the republic? The republic kind of seems to be the culmination of all his work so is anything else worth reading?
I’m partial to Meditations (Marcus Aurelius ) and The Ethics (Baruch Spinoza).
@@DonTheMoron716 Oh I meant which of Plato's dialogues if any are worth reading after the republic. I actually read meditations. Pretty cool book. I have not read any spinoza though.
Hi Dr. Sugrue, I have a quick question : In the republic, is Plato referring to the physical soul (the mind) or the spiritual soul (nonexistent).
Zoom Seminar today ?
How about Deus ex machina?
Serious question: Does Plato really think that ALL human souls can be brought to perfection, or only that the state can at best maximize the number of souls perfected? The latter is clearly the case. But what about the former?
So Plato is not egalitarian in the sense that he thinks all souls are equal or thinks that deep down we are all capable of achieving the highest highs. As the doctor mentions, this idea of innate human equality doesn't come until Christianity.
Some are going to be predisposed to being philosphers while others are not. That is part of the all-encompassing education system; to find the diamonds in the rough if you will who are capable of such a thing.
Your point on how words can, excuse me for paraphrasing, collapse into a black hole, is a poignant expression of what i feel, as we gain more knowledge, is heading in that direction. in this generation alone the power of words can be weild effectively by the youth to influence culture through memes. Everyone has the power to create for themselves something memetic, and have it be accessible to any and everyone
Language is important
me 5 mins after hitting the Fortnite cart
Does your shirt have the word Laphroaig on it?
yes
Dear Dr.Sugrue, I enjoy your lectures very much;I have been listening to them for years.I have a story to tell you about Laphroaig which I think is philosophically interesting: I went to a scotch tasting event.They gave us tiny tastes of whisky from various regions of Scotland.The mistress of ceremonies said,"This is Laphroaig,it is from Islay.Some people say it tastes like Band-Aids." Oh,gack!! It does taste like Band-Aides!!! I had been drinking Laphroaig for years.I LOVED it.Its peaty peatiness was,I thought,sublime.But when she said,"Band-Aides" I gagged.Just a word and my mind was changed!? I felt as if I had had a revelation from Wittgenstein or someone. No wonder the Woke are all in a twirl over pronouns and such. Keep up the good work.May you live forever.
1:14 It's way more rthen just "sometimes". In fact, it's almost exclusively
Sometimes evil people?
Sounds like you are describing America 🇺🇸
Perhaps then Realism is the best art format, in whatever way it could be the most real. Because that has the least amount of illusion, for people to latch on to.
As for now, if the censors are wicked, is it better with free speech for the kids? (tik tok and x)
What is that picture behind him? Is that a Warhol?
Sesame Street is the shit!
And Mr. Rogers.
Would you then say that "the god" for Plato is one of those noble lies for people to be moral/good? If not, then how does Plato describe why there is so much bad/evil? If "the god" is one of those noble lies, then does that mean Plato does not want to admit to being an atheist?
🤔
Hey Mike, could you have forgotten to include the zoom link in the description?
Unfortunately I am too sick to hold a Zoom tonight, but i will be holding one next month for book 4.
@@dr.michaelsugrue No worries Mike, take some rest and hope you feel better next time.
@@dr.michaelsugrue All good Mike, thanks for letting us know and hope you get better soon. Until next month!
@@dr.michaelsugrue
My heat belongs to you ❤
@@dr.michaelsugrue😢
Socrates (and/or Plato) was right, obviously, or I’m born in the wrong millennium. I swam 6K this morning, worked on my feet eight hours, and am now headed to the gym for 2.5 hours of weightlifting. My VO2 max is 64 mL/kg/min (elite for a 20-year-old male) and I’m 60 years-old. I’ve also maintained a serious meditation practice for 31 years. Purification, if not perfection, of the body and mind IS possible, and I’ve used my body as a Guinea pig in the search for absolute truth for four decades.
12:42 not any more. Today kids are taught all kinds of nonsense
It seems to me that back then, according to Plato, Homer was the corruptor of the young. Today, the holy Bible, which is filled with immoral poetry, is the corruptor of the young. In my opinion, if we are to adequately educate the Young and build a better Republic, we must do away with the book of fables( the Holy Bible) and take on philosophy.
Two of the most overrated "great" men of history: Socrates and Winston Churchill. Yes! Articulate, elegant writers and speakers? Absolutely. Men who achieve results through action? Not so much. It's action that makes the man (and woman)--not rhetoric, teaching, talk, talk, talk--no matter how eloquent that talk may be. Amen to Marcus Aurelius, who embodied both virtues. Tell me what you DO, and I'll tell you who you are.
Sesame Street is not a good example as it portrays homosexuality as normal. It didn't do this 20-30 years ago but does so now under woke political pressure.
I think maybe the good Dr. was referring to the old Sesame Street.
I have bad news for you about the ancient greeks.
Homosexuality is very natural. Been around forever and found in over 1000 species.
@@efronlicht1043which is?
You've missed the point. The idea in the Republic is that the education, through play and non-commitment to a particular outcome, sifts the young as to their best calling. An education for all, who can then be streamlined easier into the role of guardian, the guardian's auxiliary or everything else. Homosexuality has as much relevance to this as liking chocolate. Plus, you'll note that in the book Socrates makes mention of a boyfriend of Glaucons, I think it was. It was no big deal back then. Really shouldn't be now, either. If two plus two makes four in a male mind the same as in a female one, then it is the same for people who are gay. The best will be the best, the rest will be the rest.