Mike and Darren Unplugged ep. 10
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
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This is the official CZcams channel of Dr. Michael Sugrue.
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Dr. Michael Sugrue earned his BA at the University of Chicago and PhD at Columbia University.
It's difficult to express what these two gentlemen have done for my education. I'll be eternally grateful to you, professors!
why is it difficult?
Hey?? He's right, if it's THAT difficult then they haven't done their job that well!
@@MATHURR He COULD be applying the stuff from Meister Eckhart if it involves God? He REALLY wouldn't be able to express it.
Reverse those, "really WOULDN'T" was the desiderated inflection.
The most intellectually stimulating channel on CZcams, in my lived experience.
Sadler’s great as well!
I absolutely agree!
Tru. RIP
Mike, Darren. Your lectures pushed me to move from simply reading philosophy for fun, to Going to college with philosophy as a major. Thank you for continuing these type of discourses online! The service you two have done for the community is spectacular!
“what’s un-lived experience…?” 😂 so refreshing, cutting straight through the indulgence. So refreshing
A vicarious experience? Reading a book about someone else’s experience (lived).
Hey nice to see the dynamic duo together once more!
Dr Staloff is the best example of someone I disagree with deeply but love to listen to cause he's just so damn insightful and sharp
Fact.
This lends significant intellectual credence to the outright frustrating disillusionment I feel on a daily basis. Thank you both. Lovely and enlightening discussion.
You guys are absolute stars, love hearing all of your unplugged! Excellent and important points Darren, please live forever Michael!
Man am I glad to see you guys
Michael’s recent lectures and year long free course on Greek heroes were already filling my head and heart with joy… and now the band is back together! Thank you both for another stalwart intellectual and spiritual treat of a discussion!
Pease make more videos like this one! Because through all the nonsense on CZcams these days, we can finally learn something valuable. And thanks a lot for teaching me something new today! and, i'm happy to see you too again. Your lectures are amazing and i think that, a bit more knowledge it's what we really need at this moment in time. 👏👏👏
Thank you for all your hard work, the both of you! Your contributions are not unnoticed and are thoroughly appreciated.
Excited for this one. It is so nice to see you, Dr Sugrue.
I missed these, thank you Professor. Keep it up
I’m going to miss these
Great content guys, thanks very much!
you guys are a literal national treasure. Protect Mike and Darren at all costs!
Thank you very much!
Great to see you guys, keep going. 👍
Many thanks to you both.
Thank you!
Thanks for your excellent discussions and other content, both!
Thank you, kind professors. My appreciation for your education is immense
I just love you! This channel is atomic! You are the real supersonic academic ethos, nice people talking super important topics far from dogmas! Thaaaanks for all knowledge shared in such extraordinary lectures!
My favorite show
Thank you.
Mike and Darren, you could make these 3 hr conversations and I would be here for it. I think a lot of other people would be, too.
What a privilege to see you two back in action. I have watched all of the Sugrue/Staloff lectures over the years. Some many times. Im a little surprised you didn't bring up some Alvin Gouldner tidbits in this one. Seems relevant. Cant wait for the next one gentlemen!
love these two
These videos really are fantastic! I know Michael mentioned wanting to discuss the two newest Cormac McCarthy novels in a previous unplugged, i’d love to see that in an upcoming video
This was an alleviating conversation to listen to as someone who has been disaffected with my own generation and generation Z for a while.
Great ! Thank you!
There's nothing wrong about the necessity of growing through pain, at least in its content. The reason why young people doubt it isn't because of its content, but because of the speech act, the enunciation of it, where it's coming from, who's enunciating it. People don't trust the perverse institutional structures that seem to enjoy inflicting pain on people artificially, all the while saying, enjoy your suffering, it's good for you!
Thank you, gentlemen. It is always a pleasure to hear your thoughts.
The boys are back in town! 🎉🎉🎉
Well done gentlemen. A sorely needed conversation. How many will actually hear these words? Looking forward to the next one.
Love you guys!!👍
Arthur knows he has you by the balls tho. Please proceed!!
Where the hell has PF gone? He was helping with my Chess?
hi.
looking forward to this(:
I would argue that this is where Romanticism leads. Solipsism.
Dynamic duo!!
💝🌺 welcome back 🦋🎈✨🌺💮🌸
I love these two going into deeper epistemological problems with these ideologies rather than the common surface level criticisms.
If only Dr. Sugrue could explain his zany shirt 😂
All kidding aside: This channel is amazing and after watching all their lectures from the 80s/90s, it’s great to get their opinions on contemporary culture.
This is the most important conversation I've heard in 2023. It needs to be spread far and wide.
Love your talks gentlemen! I teach classics in high school in Denmark and get them to read this article: Why suffering is essential to wisdom" by Brady.
I nearly burst out laughing at 32:32 watching Dr. Sugrue's facial expression. A worthwhile 40 minutes spent.
Orwell, "Politics and the English Language" (1946) - "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity."
It is as it is - my non dual take on it is what it is. There ain’t a what if there is no unique experience seeing as we are echoes of the lived experience of those alive and dead.
God Bless You Doctors
George Carlin had a great chapter in Brain Droppings called 'Pleonastic Tautologies', some include: My fellow Americans, future plans, past history, and tuna fish. I'm going to eat some salmon fish tonight, thanks for the video stream!
Past history.
0:00 It’s been awhile, but Mike and Darren are back with Unplugged Episode 10
This Episode
On Neologisms
Locutions
1:25 Lived Experience. Personal Experience.
2:30 Ex. Of Locution of Personal Experience.
Anecdote
A data point of 1.
4:10 Lived Experience as Authoritative Locution.
4:55 Unlived Experience what would that mean?
5:27 Infallibility.
5:58 All Evidence is Experiential.
6:22 Politeness of Personal Experience. 😊
8:00 Putting on the verbal armor of Infallibility.
8:39 “Well, tell me about that.”
9:09 Superiority based upon perspective.
9:38 Offended your Offended.
10:13 Linguistic Miasma.
10:23 Violence is 1 body entering another with or without the use of an input.
- Don’t Weaponize Empathy just because your feelings were hurt. (Empathy has a proper place.)
12:06
12:53 Childhood hurt. Sympathy for a child.
13:30 “You’re not 6 years old [anymore]. You went through that stage right?”
14:30 The Painful Consequence of Bad Decisions.
- Stupidity should result in pain. (So people learn to grow and learn. )
17:17 Self-Righteousness is insufferable from grandstanding young people.
18:37 Clean your room.
19:07
Childhood is great
Adolescence is great
Adulthood is great
20:02 Get through it, move into a more mature and complete sense of self.
21:44 Kids are weird, but we still like them.
22:08 We are all going to be exposed to things we do not like.
23:14 Adulthood includes recognizing regrets and carrying forward.
24:04 Evil gives The Good something to do.
24:44 A Good Man knows his limits.
*Addressing University Ideological “Vocabulary”*
24:54 Inclusivity.
28:27 Transparency.
30:44 Diversity. 33:28
32:08 Democrat. Republican.
(How _much_ diversity do you want?)
37:34 Verbing.
YES. YES. YESSSS. YES. YES!
Can you go into more detail about turning parenting verb? It seems like an interesting topic. You da best thanks for all this!
32:50 you made a good point about the current state of modern leftism
finally!
Common sense can feel like a cold glass of water in a summer swelter. Thank you gentlemen.
I just found this one, thank you both again, Dr. Sugrue and Dr. Staloff😊
I think I know now why I don't get in your classes?
There are many arguments I could give here, but I won't.
I will say I would not allow Jordan Peterson teach me Nietzsche.
I just love reading books of various fields. Therefore, I conclude I am happy my papa made me to read as a child and I did not read Heidi, I wasn't interested.
I will never vote for any Democrat or Republican or Libertarian. I always voted Democrat, nevertheless never again.
I have read many books on history and world histories, not just Howard Zinn's, philosophy, economics and literature, poetry, arts are my favorite and music. All genera's of music, Bach is my favorite composer.
I happy to inform you both my papa me an iconoclast, and I am grateful for that as I never went college. I do think outside the box especially with religious divisions as I have read many books on that and listened to many in that field.
Krishnamurti, a philosopher and Alan Watts was among my journey into the realms of thought.
Thank you both again for allowing me to listen in on both of your wisdom .
I'm grateful you are back! I would love to hear your thoughts on Tom Hollands' book "Dominion", in which he traces the influence of Christianity into Wokism (chapter 21, the last one), after many other "iterations" of a common theme (the book encompass much more than that and while reading I couldn't stop thinking "what would Mike say?").
The discussion about violence is one that particularly strikes a chord with me. I’ve been having this discussion with my boss and various people for quite a few years, and it’s one of the most frustrating things. Usually, when I have this discussion, someone always tries to say something like, “ well, speech can be violence because it can oppress.” But the thing is, there is no threat of real oppression without the implication of physicality behind it. In other words, you couldn’t be truly held down or held back by someone’s dictate unless you knew that disobeying it would lead to some physical threat.
If speech can be identified with "violence" so can anything else, "x" that the speaker disapproves of [fossil fuels, photographs, mud, thoughts, taxes, sapphires, laws, science, left handed pitchers, garlic, the Van Allen Belt, whatever] which is why x is stigmatized as oppressive or harmful or hurtful. If anything and everything according to the perspective of any speaker gets described as oppressive, then everything is "violence" and the term means nothing whatever. This is a vacuous all purpose "objection" which attempts to silence political opposition and thwart serious criticism with weaponized empathy. At the same time such invertebrate minds as we find in BLM and AOC are currently treating real violence, not just some hysterical verbal semblance, as liberating, the opposite of oppressive, which turns massacre into a kind of justifiable communication.
Real violence is physical assault, not the hurt feelings and desperate need for attention and fraudulent self esteem of cultural masochists with Daddy issues. Speech is no more violence than the lumpenproletariat rabble that embrace such pretentious nihilism are entitled to anything but contempt and the back of my hand.
The back of your hand, or, in the case of garlic offense, a quick water-boarding with infused olive oil.
I have gone from being bright eyed and bushy tailed, to a extreme miser when referred to academia. I am more then happy that you two continue to provide alterative views to the bien pensannt (I can only pronounce the phrase not spell it)
@@NicholasOfAutrecourt That is not how you spell it
My Ford Focus 2006 and the transmission has been fine. It is red.
check your red privilege
@@pearz420 A grandson took the car as his own. God bless him.
Darren likes to hear himself talk ; gotta give Mike credit for his patience.
Hmm I would like to see them both tackle metamodernism as it is the contemporary part of the western tradition.
Dr. Sugrue and Dr. Staloff are sort of anachronisms and I mean that in the BEST possible sense. Who knows civilization and the classics like Plato, Socrates, Augustine, Eckhart, Shakespeare Kierkegaard et al better than these two? I often wonder watching their lectures what those brilliant minds of the past would think of this weird, bizarre world today. I believe Sugrue and Staloff come the closest to what those past greats would think today. Dr. Sugrue, you look good. You remain in my prayers daily.
The last collab 😢
This is tougher than any celebrity death, it feels too close and it hurts sometimes, but he left me with a brighter mind and brighter eyes for the dimmer world without all he represented and did alive 🥹
Have recently discovered David Foster Wallace. Would love to know Professor Sugrue’s thoughts about his work, Wallace’s reflections on irony in US fiction and televisual culture. Has he talked about it in any of the videos here or the Idea Store podcast?
❤
It would be nice if the name of the topics discussed are also written in the video name.
Just numbering of the 'Unplugged' episodes seem inadequate.
Personal experience alludes to a social commonality among and between people. Refering to this commonality in personhood is to humbly recognize subjectivity as such, not as an objective absolute to impose on a fellow person, but as the personl experiences of each and the oppinions derived there from is entirely relative in face of a larger considerations.
"Lived experiences" devalues this commonality to the lower level of plants and moluscs
Hello Michael, you have mentioned your disdain for the idea of "self esteem" but have yet to explicate. What are your thoughts on self esteem?
Gotta just avoid the “lived experience” people the same way you’d avoid a sketchy looking figure in a dark alley. They are the violent ones… (mainly to themselves but also to others). Can’t reason with people in that state, but I am glad y’all are sharing these concerns. Much more productive than arguing with those kinds of people!
Can we have a discussion on Aristotle. I have seen the ones on Socrates and Plato.
If I saw Sug in person I would probably be starstruck
What comes to mind is Kant's knowledge is limited by our senses . As is said, as empirical experience. one could react to this by saying I lived my experience not experiencing a fly in a jar. Lived experience is an existential elevating of one's self. Self-righteous.
Gratitude for the interesting conversation. Words are spells and bad people use them in order to control and manipulate the masses.
Good people also use words to manipulate and can fall under the spell of their own words, even with the best of intentions.
@@Lobishomem You are not wrong, and I am likely no exception to this.
@@8yerbrain No one is an exception myself included.
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
1980's big toy; scolding metal slide durring hot months, hard dirt ground to land on, splinters in certain sections.
2010 big toy; heat resistant polyurethane slide, foam flooring, sleek rounded frame.
One, could be argued, has defined limits.
I’m curious where they would classify Chomsky between their distinctions of New Left and Old Left now. Probably in new left, but I don’t think that’s necessarily the case and in fact he’s referring back HUGELY to all sorts of the western tradition-Aristotle, Kant, JS Mill, Smith, Hume. And he’s already dismissed some areas where young people go too far and endanger free speech and fighting culture wars etc. so I see him as fitting what they call the “Old Left”
To quote Ronald Regan...i dint leave the democratic party, the party left me.
Now ive been republican my entire life, but these days ive been meeting more and more people who feel alienated from the left and all of the sudden have been pushed into the right without then even knowing.
"I'm a lifetime democrat... that recently became far right wing" laughing out loud at that one professor!
Nice chat, thanks for sharing
In my humble opinion I find undertones of Jordan Peterson in your Princeton lectures. A podcast between the two of you would be a treat. Thank you for sharing these enlightening videos.
Dr. Stalof surprised me, pleasantly. I thought he would be all WOKE. Hats off to Dr. Darren.
Why in the world did you think that? Nearly all intellectuals are conservative, in my lived experience lol
@@tinfoilhatscholar Funny. But I have to say, Sugrue and Stalof are not conservatives. Although, those definitions and categories are shifting too. I just thought Stalof would embrace the German Idealism contained within the Woke stuff. Apparently not.
@@jimsteele9559Well there WAS that time they stood up for climate change....
@@tinfoilhatscholarAnd definitely tenured professor's.
@tinfoilhatscholar Neo-liberals, which includes conservatives, yes. Nowadays there are very few actual leftists(Anarchists, vanguardists, etc.)
Think of someone like Chomsky who professes to be an anarcho-syndicalist.
Never prevaricate about the Ford Focus.
Perfect age for the production of irony😂
I cannot get the drive of this. Can I just ask if you are Both still teaching students? To clarify..in the university environment? Retired??
"Evil exists to give the good something to do." A funny statement maybe, but it's something to think about. In this view, the existence of evil serves as a catalyst for people or societies to do acts of goodness, justice, or moral improvement. If everyone lived forever in perfect peace, we might never have advanced as a species.
Is that why evil exists? If so, could it be “the good” or at least those who believe themselves to be such, that bring about evil so as to justify their own existence? Maybe without even realising it?
@@buzhidao5065 There's the classic adage that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The fallibility of human judgment has caused no shortage of suffering, that's for sure. No one thinks they're on the wrong side of history. I guess careful consideration and moral reflection are the best we can do.
@@TheMusicalStylingsofBrentBunn that seems wise to me :) I like your music btw
@@buzhidao5065 Oh my gosh, thanks so much :D
There are aspects of subjective experience that defy quantification. Any data set, regardless of how thorougher and well structured it is will not capture all the possible information about an event that involves conscious beings. As such, there may be useful information contained in the “lived experience” of those beings that does not translate to data. Hence, we may gain insight in the discussion of the lived experience. But I don’t think any such information is necessarily generalisable and it is too often used as a bludgeon in otherwise reasonable debates. As Michael Sugrue has indicated, the “exo-cosm” and “intro-cosm” are asymptotes. Give this, we need to afford the space for both to exist in reasonable discussion while understanding the limits of each.
What is heterogenious? I am giving you a helping hand. It came in before the bird speech! I find it hard..For sure it would be ironed out in English..in a book… Too much on the ENGLISH language? No?
Your book is so much anticipated!!
Do the word “Triggered”
It's a woke term to further define my individual truth through my lived experience. It has identitarian connotations. That is both that oppressed minorities experience a different truth or reality but also that a group with diversity of expertise will solve a problem but in a woke work place a group of different identities will solve a problem because of their lived experience even though their experience has no expertise and therefore nothing of actual value to add to creating a solution.
Hello gang
So does the verbing in "He childed as I fathered" (King Lear, Act 3: Scene 6) bother you? If not, why not?
we are entering an intellectual darkage
Michael and Darren are based (my use of neologisms for the day.)
I have an Ethnic Studies class that offers absolutely no chance for counterpoint. I cannot cite sources that are not already offered in the syllabus. The only think I can do is question and look for inconsistencies in the readings I'm assigned.
Dont' bet me wrong, I've discovered many things I didn't know but for someone who doesn't know better it would seem that the whole history of the world has been impulsed by racism and racism only
I recommend listening to James Lindsay on this topic.
Another one is "adulting"
I agree with most of these. Im 25 so I've always heard the word "parenting" and never thought anything of it. To me its just another way of saying "raising" children. It doesn't seem particularly suspect to me.
One more thing and I hate to say it, but women seem particularly attracted to most of these neologisms. Perhaps that's just my "lived experience"
I'm a low-level employee at Transparency International. While I'm just a cook in the Executive Kitchen, I thought I'd give you a point. I'm a true believer in our mission to transparencize the beuracracrcies of the world and beyond. Defining "transparency" as a "null set" is very violent to our world view. Such talk makes some of the leaders here want to give the farm back to its original owners. I'm sure the capitalists will thank you then, comrades!
Why only attach to the realistic locutions of the left? Why not expand the word salad to the right, who at least have locutions that need deep contextualization! E.g., the Committee on the Weaponization of Government, Stop the Steal, and Crooked Hillary. How compartmentalized is that! BTW, my spell checker approved compartmentalized but not locutions, which they insist should be "locations." So, how smart can you guys be? You can't even get through a Google Word check.
Be good ( just try, I know you've never been good before),
Kevin
I don't think they are defending the absurdities of the far right, which say blatantly ridiculous things like "make America great again."
Instead, they are critiquing the language that has been utilized by the left (inclusivity, diversity, etc) because it is far less apparent in its absurdity and has often lost its original meaning in academia.
By the way, locution is a word.
"Lived experience" people emphasise it because science is considered "white" lived experience. It's believed minority voices haven't been heard through science so we have to buy in to "lived experience."