One bullet does it all: Berger 156gr 6.5mm EOL
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
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I’ve done more testing and field work with Berger’s 6.5mm 156 grain Extreme Outer Limits (EOL) Elite Hunter rifle bullet than any other rifle bullet. Today, I’m revisiting those experiences.
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Look Im on TV!
😂😂😂
Won Swedens top ELR match two years in a row with tipped 156 EOLs, getting G7 to 0.363. Starting at 1107 meter at a 24”x24” target with 6 hits out of 6 shots. Getting hits out to 2024 meters. I’m using the 6.5 SAUM with a 32” bartlein 7,5 twist barrel, pushing the 156 EOL to 3280 fps and whipped the 375 cheytacs, 338 LMs and the 300 Norma out of the top spot. So I agree, its a really good bullet!
I've shot these in 6.5 Creedmoor @2650fps (24" Barrel) and 6.5x55 at 2790fps (27") both using H4831sc and both shooting sub 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups at 100yds and
I took my 6.5 prc to Africa in 2021. I took 7 animals from Zebra, Sable, Gembok and more. Ranges were from 30 to 490yds. The Berger 156’s worked amazing. Going back in 2025 and will be taking the same setup.
“Perfect spine shot” are three words I’ve never heard in that order from a hunter before.
But accidents happen; especially when shooting live quarry at extreme range. Hopefully a lesson learned here.
Really should not have required a lesson. It's absurd for an amateur hunter without a lot of long range shooting experience to even attempt this shot. To top it off he was using someone else's gun. This attempt at a commercial for Berger isn't quite working out like he hoped given the comments I'm seeing.
@@MMBRM I notised he did not blame the distance, because he wanted to try the bigger 7mm bullets to fix it next time:) .... People who know enough about shoting will admit, that trying to hit something with your very first shot while doing it at a place where you have never been shooting before(new place where meteorological conditions can surprise you much more than in your shooting range where you used to shoot 1000 times...) - it is very dificult.... You can do it, but never ten times out of 10 attempts... Admiting this should stop ANYBODY, ONE can always walk closer and avoid all that mess.... Sorry about my english I live in Czechia.
Yeah that was not an ethical shot.
Glad you enjoyed your time in our beautiful country. Piet was a great choice to link up with here
I recently purchased 500 of the153.5 berger hybrid for my 6.5x300 weatherby. Can't wait to start load work
I bought a box of EOLs when I got my model 70 featherweight last year and was flat out impressed with how well they grouped even during break in. I was consistently getting 3 shot cloverleaf groups at 100 yards with the factory load! If I remember correctly it is loaded in Lapua brass as well so a good investment for someone looking to hand load down the road!
Great recap. Shot 3 cow elk, 450, 543, and 725. All one shot kills with 147 prc. All dropped within 20 yards. Also shot a big old bull at 450. Went 10 yards and fell over backward, with no exit wound in any elk. No surprise, the deer and antelope taken with the same load all pancaked. Farthest was 865. Only shot that far because we found a pronghorn with 3 legs, front left leg was wounded from another hunter days before by our estimate. I put my tag on it to end his suffering asap. Was worried about expansion with the 147, but it way preformed my expectations. The 156 seems to have a deeper channel as it takes a few more inches for terminal expansion to kick in. That being said, I'm having some 156 delivered this week. the weight gains, SD AND BC are marginal gains vs. the velocity cost, but I'm always looking for improvement. Love to see the 195 7prc load development!!!
Is that with the Hornady 147gr eldm?
@@bigguns157 yea 147 ELDMurder.
@@bigguns157 yes
@Fredfluffby I archery hunt, mussel load, almost only in public lands with zero guides or zero paid access. Hate all you want, and your understanding may be underdeveloped. I get closer than most when possible. But I also hunt wilderness areas in nv mainly. If you haven't hunted in the Mars desert, you might think that. 600 yards with no cover isn't possible to close sometimes. If I was in AZ, wy, Montana or Utah or better yet white tail country, I wouldn't have a use for that either. Any place with rain basically nullifies long-range... most kindergarten insults I get come from white tail hunters, who pretend to be trees and pay for hunting access near farms, then talk crap! Don't tell me you're that guy!!! Or the purest who mainly eats tag soup.
Yeah, f-n’ nuts! So cool! I’m glad everyone survived. Really great seeing you guys do it. I get nervous when I approach max published loads. Not for me. Really cool!
I use the 170 eol in my 6.8 western! Haven’t had the opportunity to use it on game yet, but it loads well and shoots really well out of my rifle!
I have no doubt that the Bergers shoot well - but as someone that hunts for meat I'm more curious about things like jacket separation and lead fragmentation in the meat. Used ELD-X's for the longest time because they were accurate but after years of seeing cup and core separation and getting lead fragments in our meat I'm moving on to something healthier for the my family and dogs.. They don't make any solid hunting bullets... otherwise it would be Berger 100%.
Nicely done Gavin! The hunt and the video.
Looks like a great hunt. Nice to see such great bullet performance. I have been interested in the 6.5 PRC myself, and wondered about the 156 Norma Oryx. I have pretty much decided to get a 7mm-08 for now, and wait on the 6.5 until i have a real place where i can set up my reloading stuff. Fantastic SD's with that VV powder. I will have to remember that. I will not take you to task for that long shot, as others have capably done so already. I will mostly be shooting steel, hopefully out to 400 yds and maybe beyond.
The 195gr eol at 3150fps is a hammer in a 28 nosler.
Thanks Gav for the info of this Berger
It’s been a great hunting bullet for me, took a 360 class bull elk and a couple of deer with it. I have been able to get it scooting to 2760 in Both a 260 and 6.5 creed for prs. My hunting 260 pushes em 2860 and my factory tikka 260 with that short 22” barrel gets em right at 2600 that I’ve used for NRL hunter and make power factor no problem! They are great for wind in match settings!
Let’s see some berger 205’s in some of that new 300 WSM brass
Or 200.20x
Really enjoy your videos (best reloading in depth dive). I wish you would have shown recovered bullets and talked what they did with those game animals. Berger bullets have a reputation of severely fragmenting on impact. Your shots were so good that any bullet would have worked. More forensics would be appreciated. Bergers are great and shoot fantastic but I'd like to know how they performed with less optimal placement? I'm a fan of not wasted energy with a bullet zinging through both sides. Ideally it falls out the back side.Please provide!
That's the greatest weight & profile for ultimate Ballistic success!
Gavin’s weight and profile or the bullet. Haha
@@rockylongbrake1703 yep, sometimes ya gotta be specific!
Good video, nothing like proof of "what it should do"
6.5 prc. 58.3gr, h1000 tad over 3.0" coal. Hammer city.
How’s the case fill ? I’m running magpro currently, I haven’t loaded any of my h1000 yet
59.6 grains with .065" jump yields .367" 5-shot groups for me.
I’m amazed at how well the Choice Custom ammo 6.5PRC 156EOL shot from my SAKO S20. It was an impulse buy and I was a little nervous about the accuracy of the S20 but I was pleasantly surprised!
Congratulations on the hunt
Have a 7 PRC 26", 1n8, 3 groove barrel throated for the Berger 195 EOL being mated to my old Surgeon action. My dummy round for throating extended the 195 past the neck-shoulder junction giving addition case capacity over the factory 180ELDM Hornady load. Hopefully it will be finished within 60 days giving me time for load developement prior to a planned elk hunt in November. If it won't make 2800-2850 fps, there should have enough neck to be able shoot the 180 VLD or Hybrid at around 2950 fps. The 195 can run over 200fps slower than the 180s and still achieve better wind drift and energy at any range. The hope with the 195s at 2850 fps is to make it a 10mph gun = using moa means your wind read on a 10mph coming from 90 degree equals 1/2 the distance in yards divided by 100 = ex: 200yds is 1.00moa, 600yds is 3moa and this holds true all the way out to 1200yds and is never more than .25 moa off on a wind call!
I finally got my hands on some Berger loaded ammo in 140 and 156 nothing to write home about in accuracy that coming from a Savage 110 Ultralight carbon barrel rifle topped with an Arken EP-5. To tell you the truth I haven’t been impressed with 6.5 PRC really. The 195 7mm Berger they require a 1-8 twist as I have a 280 AI that shoots their 168 lights out and that is why I didn’t go for the 7mm PRC. My next move is to maybe buy a Cortina muzzle brake /tuner or sell the rifle minus the scope and rings!
Really enjoy your content Gavin, but disagreeing with you regarding that "perfect" spinal shot on Kudu. Was confused that it was considered a good shot in the first video about this hunt you posted and seeing it now for the second time didn't do much to alleviate that, I find it hard to believe that animal died within seconds as claimed.
In my opinion that was a botched shot that luckily turned out well in probably the best possible way, could so easily have been a gutshot - definitely not something to brag about and exactly why I consider long-range hunting unethical
Yeah I think this says what I'm thinking too. Dunno, maybe he was aiming for the spine? There are some hunters that swear by it for certain DG. If I was him I would have done the work to get closer, although Kudu have those big ears that hear everything. But that's hunting isn't it. I love his content too. One of the best channels out there.
@@creigh68they have the red circle on the shoulder which I'm assuming is point of aim though so doubt it was intentional.
Stalking a kudu is certainly a challenge but thats what fair chase is all about - wheres the challenge in making a hit at 700yards with a kestrel, a laser rangefinder and a precision rifle from prone?
@@Bigeasy83 The person that does that is called a "Bokdoos".
Definitely interested in the 7prc with the berger bullets
I know a lot of hunting concession's / Guides have banned berger(Hamberger) bullets...
In my 7mm prc using n570 , adg brass , 180 vld Berger getting 3050 and tight groups. Killed a nice six point bull elk last year at 629 yards drt. Very interested in the 195’s. I would like you to do my load and post it because I have got a lot of hate on it. A lot of people. So probably going to have so hate again.
Curious as to how much meat damage you saw with the Berger.
Expect very little copper or lead outside the wound channel. The wound channel was easily identified because it was a black, hydrostatic jelly mess. Ruined the heart and lungs. I'm sure some fractional shards shot deeper perpendicularly from the channel, but we couldn't detect it with a handheld metal detection devise.
Berger fragment bad
@eggbert191 Absolutely. They lose 85% of their mass within 30 inches. But the fragmentation largely remains in a nice wide and strait wound channel. Copper and bonded can have aggressive cures if the peddling isn't perfect or they hit bone. No bullet is bulletproof. I'll take high energy and supreme accuracy, lead tainted meat. To each their own... never had a bad experience. I have had bad experiences with copper and bonded.
Varies. I had zero on most, but one pronghorn and one mule deer both shot forward into the shoulder shattered scapula, and we lost a shoulder on each. Both animals also went 100 yards after the shot. One of those was extremely close, within 100 and the other beyond 850. Both were moving... So, accuracy is everything, and I've had the same species at similar ranges with zero loss with a double lung shot, all were broadside or quartered away, and stationary! If the wound channel is in the lungs, the lead and copper will be in the lungs. You may lose a handful of rib meat at entry and exit, but with good bullet placement, it's usually ideal. Surprisingly, elk have been flawless as far as no meat loss. Bigger targets help. Good shot discipline can't be overemphasized. Getting closer is great too, but not of they get nervous and start moving... hunted with copper, bonded, and lead. Shot placement is significantly more valuable than your projectile choice. Humans used rocks and wood with enough success for us to be here with the same circumstances. Our tools are plenty effective, and our craftsmanship has human error. Eliminating that should be the focus.
No doubt the Bergers shoot well - but as someone that hunts for meat I'm more curious about things like jacket separation and lead fragmentation in the meat. Used ELD-X's for the longest time because they were accurate but after years of seeing cup and core separation and getting lead fragments in our meat I'm moving on to something healthier for the my family and dogs.. They don't make any solid hunting bullets... otherwise it would be Berger 100%.
How much is Berger paying you to sell your reputation.
Perfect spine shot, ya right.
Spine shots are fine you old fud... (Inside 200 yards)... But yeah I think the dope he was working with wasn't quite perfect but animal harvested regardless.
I'd like to see the bullet hole on that kudu. Following the vapor trail looks further back from that red circle. But hey, it's food on the table. Congrats on the hunt.
I just returned from hunting in Africa. A controlled expansion bullet is a much better choice for Kudu, Waterbuck, and Gemsbuck.
Try hunting Botswana next time where the animals are free range and not fenced in. Plus, the animals are much bigger.
Most of South Africa is hunting animals that were transported their for hunting and not born there.
I like the berger hybrid hunter
46% weight retention? Thats not confidence inspiring at all man😊
Bullets need to shed weight in order to maintain a wide wound channel.
I know it sounds bumpkus, but unfortunately you’ve been fed propaganda for so long stating otherwise that you are probably going to dismiss this comment. If you really want to learn look up nathan fosters work on terminal ballistics. Googling his name should bring up his site and research.
I use the 156 with n565 also in a 6.5 prc. Have not gotten to take a shot at game yet but real good accuracy
Wow lots of comments being deleted.
My first comment got deleted
You have no hang fire problems with the small rifle primers? I’ve definitely had more then a few
I just recently worked up a load for this bullet for my dads 6.5x284 norma with H1000. Shoots right at .25moa at 100yards (3 shots) excited to see how it does on antelope, deer and elk this fall! Running about 2840 fps with very low SD. Super eager to see a story about the 195 EOL in 7 PRC, I don't own a 7 PRC but have run the numbers on that bullet/cartridge and it looks like incredible potential for big game and beating the wind! Also would LOVE to see some videos on the 7 sherman short/MAX as that looks like the ultimate cartridge for a lightweight, hard-hitting, long range capable hunting set up! Very similar to the 7PRC just in a short action with a throat designed for the heavy pills.
How many grains of H1000
@@jeremyburr2369 55.2 grains, started getting signs of pressure around 56-56.5 grains. Start several grains below this and work up slowly in your rifle as this is with a COAL of 3.175in which is 0.045 off the lands and was the most accurate jump in my testing, starting at 0.015 off the lands and going to 0.060. I got load data emailed to me from berger and they listed the max at 56.1 grains with a COAL of 3.228in.
They recommended starting at 51 grains and doing any seating depth testing at 51 grains also, as changing seating depth affects pressures.
What about the Swede?
Mid back spine shot and out of it's misery within a few seconds don't really go in the same sentence. I notice you worded it carefully instead of saying it was dead in a few seconds like the others. Irresponsible shot from someone who isn't used to hunting at that distance and who is using someone else's rifle which they have almost no time on. I have zero problem with hunting for meat but it should always be a high priority to make sure the animal suffers the least amount possible. It's not like you were desperate for sustenance and that was the only opportunity you had.
Yeah, the point being, you have 600m to cover on foot. It's impossible to know the condition of the animal or how much it suffered over that time period. I was with someone that had a spine shot on a buck last year. Definitely didn't kill it, just paralyzed it. Had to put it down with a second when we got there.
Did you recover the bullets? Analysis of the bullet deformation/retention and wound channel would be more useful than velocity.
Was the Kudu shot accidentally high? Where were you aiming? We see the best placement as low just behind the shoulder. (For a broadside shot)
I could see that animal was hit too high as well as it was hit above the belly.... that animal had to die very slowly..., which he might not realize being so far away.... Of course, hunting is without any sighting shot...., therefore the very first shot at such a distance is always hard to predict, it means this distance is too much for anybody
I’ve been dyin for some to test
300win Berger hunter bullets 185 are deadly
I always enjoyed your videos. but this one, this is the first time absolute i dislike. sounds like a commercial video payed the bullet manufacturer and that spine shot…
I am loading 156 EOL in 6.5 PRC for my Howa 1500. Do you have any suggestions?
I enjoy a lot of your content, but please be real. One particular comment was hard to swallow.
I’m not going getting into the discussion of what’s an ethical range, but don’t pretend a spine shot is a (perfect shot) or the animal was dead in seconds. If you say, it wasn’t ideal but it happened I can understand that. But most hunters know that a spine shot is not an ideal or perfect hit, and animals don’t die in seconds. They generally suffer more from that impact than others. The sound that they make when hit in the spine I think pretty much confirms that, and it’s not a sound that any ethical Hunter wants to hear.
Bro I like your channel but i watched those shots and those ranges. Come on dude ethical, i don't think so.
No thanks. Berger fragment way to easy. Monolithic bullet for me or bonded for extended range
Agree 1000%
Great info. Have you ever done a head to head comparison with the 153 Atip ?
I was skeptical at first of the "perfect spine shot" but seeing the comments I had to watch it again and it doesn't look like a good shot to me either. The animal doesn't drop that cleanly like you would expect from an upper spine shot (since it was a lower spine hit). It's possible that the animal died quickly because of that kind of wound but I still wouldn't call it a good shot.
I admit that I don't know enough about long range hunting to say if that shot should have been attempted in the first place (also given setup and enviroment).
Despite this I hate that Gavin clearly botched the shot and did not own up to it. I'm sure he and Piet are good shots and know what they are doing but mistakes happen and overconfidence is a thing. Something interesting could have been said on that by Gavin but he just tried to say some nonsense about how it was a good hit anyway.
I still believe that long range hunting shots can be done but now I don't really know how much Gavin's opinion can be trusted on the matter.
This is not a good look man.
What was ethical about shooting at 620m ? I could see that animal was hit too high as well as it was hit above the belly.... that animal had to die very slowly..., which you did not realize being so far away.... Of course, hunting is without any sighting shot...., therefore the very first shot at such a distance is always hard to predict, it means this distance is way too much for anybody. No matter if someone managed last time...., because next time it could easily end up like in this case.
Would love to see load development in 7mm burger.
147 eldmurder >>>>>>
Is the 156 to heavy for a grendel load?
+-130gr max. I don’t go over 100gr in my Grendel. Otherwise velocity suffers way too much.
I've been using the 127 LRX in the grendel. Hoping to hunt with it this fall. The 160 round nose work in it if ur planning subsonic
do you need a mega sized bullet, if so totally understand other needs might dictate much lower weight bullet to extract velocity in certain rigs. just like various calibres before where light to different heavier weight bullet has so many advantages over alternative. you have developed a great elk round for the often maligned 6.5 rifle options. dependent on rig build , how it handles the recoil and environment. the 30 only community have no idea sorry.
.277 170 gr EOL out of 1-8 270 WSM is a hammer. Should give it a go in 6.8 Western A 6.5 prc on steroids
Big game snipers out making bad shots and bragging about it. Notgood..
Just learning, what’s the importance of small (0.059 Lapua vs. 0.062) diameter primer hole in pocket of brass? Thanks.
If you are a hunter, stick with large rifle primers to get optimal ignition in cold temperatures.
or maybe which one actually fits the primer pocket possibly?????!!!!!
First off - Its been tested and proven by many people - including myself- that properly loaded ammo with small rifle primers DO NOT have ignition problems. No problem for me.. even with the primers seated very deep at near maximum saami spec. Single digit SD/ES and ZERO fail to fire when used at up to -38Celcius.
Second - why do people buy the 6.5 Creedmoor brass with small primer pockets? Availability. You have a snowballs chance in hell of finding any large rifle primers, but you should have no problem finding enough small rifle primers to keep you loading.
That 680yd shot, and then lying about what happened was difficult to watch. It impacted further back than advertised, it dropped with the head up and front legs still operational. I guess openly lying while providing video that says otherwise isn't only a Hammer bullets kind of thing.
What video was hammer bullets lying?
@brentwinkelman1990 the one where Steve shot into the herd and rolled a ram and a lamb aoudad was one of many. His story changed like 5 times when confronted and pointed out. Starting with denial, pulling the video, claiming he was given the go ahead, claiming the lamb was in the bush in the distance, filming a fake walkup after moving the lamb, claiming that they only found out about the lamb when loading the ram up, and acting all surprised lying to the camera about what happened. And that's just what I noticed from that one original video.
There are other videos that they pulled and edited when lies are pointed out like one where their bullet completely changed directions in the animal, that video was pulled, cropped, then reposted to cover up what happened. Steve constantly straight faced lies, it would be funny if it weren't so insulting that he thinks folks actually believe his blatant lies.
Not impressed with too long of shots😳😔
Bergers for paper and steel...hammers or noslers for hunting. Bergers frag and dont penetrate if they contact heavy bone!
Seen so many opinions for and against the 6.5 prc for elk. What do you think, Gavin, (and everyone else here)...6.5 PRC with 156 berger EOL an ethical combo for bull elk?
Looks like my comment was deleted. I've taken moose with 140 accubond. 6.5prc is fine for elk
100% ethical for elk. After 400yds that Berger factory 6.5PRC load delivers more energy on target than a 180gr Nosler out of a 300 win mag. And the 6.5prc has less drop and wind deflection EVERYWHERE vs 300 win mag. Run some ballistics calculators, the 6.5PRC is great for elk hunting. The 300win mag and other large magnums used for elk might deliver more energy on target up close. But the 6.5prc maintains ETHICAL killing energy farther than a 300 win mag can and does so with less drop and drift… no reason not to take one elk hunting. Anybody who says a 6.5mm can’t kill elk or is unethical is an absolutely uneducated fool with little man syndrome.
6.5 prc 100% for elk but would choose a diff bullet...personally 7mm/30cal is my min for elk...alot of guides wont let ppl hunt elk with less them 270/7mm bore!
@@chevyon37s I didn't believe you about the energy compared to the 180gr win mag...but ran the ballistics and you are right. that is crazy
@@brentwinkelman1990 what bullet would you recommend? I assumed bigger would be better, and the 156 is the biggest I could find
Make a 7mm Norma Mag, no further comments…
????? The perfect bullet? Doing what the 140 grain partition has been doing in the Swede for decades....
Frend have some problems with that bullets in 6.5 prc 8" twist when is colder and in lower altitude.
So I dont know how it can be any good in needmore?
Your comment lost all validity when you said needmoore. Enjoy your 30-06.
Total FUDD.
If the need…..creedmoor has a 7.5 twist it would probably stabilize fine. I agree that it’s probably heavier than the is really optimal in that cartridge.
@@DesertDweller2023 30-06 is all you need for antelope here. My best mate hunted 30 years with it and the freezer is full. Still, wouldn't mind playing with a 7mm prc. Don't know if it's worth paying the extra hype dollars for the new toy when everything else I have will do the same job. Maybe I'm too old :)
@@DesertDweller2023 dont have 3006 but definitely a much better choice for hunting than a needmoore.
These bullets sure are great for targets, but for hunting Nosler Partition or Accubond
Not sure why you even put that spine shot in your video? Everyone needs to take blame here…Piet and company included. If you aimed high you should not be allowed to go hunting again. If your dope was off…Understandable…that happens. And if included that in the video as a lesson to show that mistakes do happen…, Good for you. But own up…And for heavens sake…You cannot possibly hide your mistake by calling that ethical. Not sure what was discussed between you lot after that shot but calling it what it was not aint the way to go…
Can’t believe you yanks, come try our foxes at 1/2 mile.. we practice at 1000 on dandelions.. see you in April at Ko2M France
What was ethical about shooting at 620m ? I could see that animal was hit too high as well as it was hit above the belly.... that animal had to die very slowly..., which you did not realize being so far away.... Of course, hunting is without any sighting shot...., therefore the very first shot at such a distance is always hard to predict, it means this distance is too much for anybody
He shot it in the spine, it dropped. It was gone in less than 15seconds
If it was a mid body spine shot, then it likely needed a follow up shot. That’s too far to shoot at game.
@@MorrisOutdoors98Gavin claims a quick kill also but I find it hard to believe. I'm certainly not a veterinarian but have seen a few shots like that in the past and all those animals were paralysed but very much alive afterwards.
Why would a lower spinal shot cause instant death? Not being a facetious, I'm just wondering if others have had different experiences to mine
Doesn’t seem like an ideal shot to me.
@phild9813 That statement needs to be qualified with more. Thats not too far for the right bullet and shooter combination.
Terrible shot on the Kudu
These guys are "hunting" too much
Garbage bullets. I’ve seen more animals guiding that far wounded by this crap that I care to remember
Every comment you have on this channel is a troll comment man.
@markoeberhardt3132 maybe so but he's not wrong
@@awsomedude12345678 so what’s your experience… Explain how he’s right. How many times have you had issues with the Berger EOL?
@@awsomedude12345678 I’m not for or against these bullets, in fact I never used them. I know people that claim they suck and also seen people stack dozens of animals with them. So what’s your experience?
@@markoeberhardt3132 they are a bullet and any bullet will kill but badly designed bullets injure more and kill slower . There are only two kinds of acceptable hunting bullets for big game, they are bonded and monolithic. (There are exceptions but this is the general rule)