264 Win VS. 6.5 PRC? - Season 2: Episode 64
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! Can the 264 Winchester Magnum compete with the 6.5 PRC? Find out in this episode.
00:00 - Corrections
05:57 - The 264 Winchester Magnum is a cartridge I have chambered in a Cooper rifle. I think this cartridge can still compete with the likes of 6.5 PRC or the 6.5 Weatherby RPM. What are your thoughts?
11:24 - When you are working up a new hunting load, how do you increase powder charge from starting load?
17:35 - What do you think of the new Hornady CX Copper Alloy Bullets?
19:00 - Where would you go for your first Safari hunt in Africa, and whom would you go with?
24:16 - I want to hunt black bears here in Georgia. I'm thinking of a few hunts in the southern swamps and maybe one in the north Georgia mountains. Can you give me some tips because it will be my first time hunting bears? We can only hunt bears in the fall.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Since answering this viewer's question, I've been working on a deep dive, long version video comparing the 264 Win Mag to many other 6.5s. Stay tuned to Ron Spomer Outdoors YT channel for that one coming soon. PRC, RPM, 26 Nosler, 6.5-300 Wby...
Thank you for keeping your word to me Ron I love your content I've learned a great deal from your well informed knowledge thank you let's bring the 264 back
🤠 I am looking forward to this because after looking at the online Nosler #9 Reloading handbook, it appears that the 6.5 prc is slightly faster? 🤯 Of course that doesn't include every available powder, but the results were somewhat surprising to me, as I would have guessed that the 264 Winchester Magnum would have been faster by 50 ft/s to 75 ft/s, since it is a bigger case that uses more powder? 😱 So, I can't wait to see what you find Ron? 🕵️♂️
🕵️♂️ The water capacity of the 264 Winchester Magnum is 8 grains more than the 6.5 prc, but the difference between their pressures is only 1,000 psi (64,000 for the 264 Winchester Magnum vs. 65,000 psi for the 6.5 prc)! So, you certainly wouldn't think that the 6.5 prc would be faster, now would you, with it's ability to use that much more powder and such a little difference in pressure? 🤔 Your thoughts? 🤷♂️
🤯 Certainly, because Nosler is a competitor of Horneday, you wouldn't think that they would have any reason to exadurate the performance of the 6.5 prc cartridge in any way? Yet, in the latest factory loads, Horneday has backed off on their velocity claims regarding the Factory Ammunition and I have also heard people saying that the cartridge is not getting the advertised velocities in their rifles! Your thoughts, since you own one and I assume a good chronograph? Has Horneday neutered the cartridges capabilities in their factory loads or are they reducing the loads to keep it operating in a safe pressure range or for accuracy purposes? I am a little perplexed? 😯
😏 Their current loads do not even outperform my beloved 270 Winchester in their Horneday Factory Ammunition! 😁
The 264 Winchester magnum is a fabulous cartridge that sadly got a bad rap. It is much less of a barrel burner than many of today’s super fast cartridges. In my opinion it is one of the greatest antelope cartridges ever made I have used one for 20 years
I had 3 264 wm's, smoked the barrels on all three of them, yes it is the king of long range, it's also the king of barrel burning. All three of mine lost 150-250fps right around 500rds. I'm on my second 6.5 prc, liked the cartridge so well I upgraded to a Christensen arms mesa last fall. I get 2960fps with RL26 and the Hornady 143eld-x, it does that with 10gr. less powder than the 264's I had. On average 70fps slower at the muzzle than a 264, animals will never notice, trajectory is less than an inch different at 500yds.
6.5 Rem Mag too in a short action.
I load the 264 win to 3160 with the 142 ABLR and RL33. With modern slower powders it isn't the barrel burner of the past.
I think anyone interested in the 264 Magnum could probably find some great information from Craig Boddington's writings. He may have more field experience than any living writer. He also tends to not exaggerate. Most refreshing.
You are spot on! Having hunted reloaded and being a 60+ year gun collector of rifles and books by gun writers Craig is the top gun writer that is still alive today and has done more hunting then any other hunter in the world who is still alive and was a very good friend of Mr Petersen and an employee for many years and if anybody knows who Mr. Petersen is he brought out the first car magazine and the first hunting magazine !
My late father was a professional hunter for over 40 years in East Africa and he really liked the 264 Win Mag.
He always said that it was a much underrated cartridge.
Ron your show has gotten so good that you are my favorite thing to watch when Im home from work, this is the only form of entertainment that actually makes all the worries of the world and stress fade away and it feels like im at the hunting club listening to my fathers freinds talk. Thank you and I mean it , I truly appreciate these episodes.
Thank you ever so much, PDB. I am humbled and grateful for your support.
I concur
I agree too. Fun and knowledgeable shows that seem to interest me no matter what u choose to dive into. Thanks Ron
i run my 26" .264 MAG with Hodgon H50 BMG powder. Its a chassis rifle based on a Savage 110 action. 1/8 twist Douglass barrel. I run 140 grain rounds over the chrono at 3,000 to 3,100 fps. I also have some 123 Gr SSTs. I have run those up to 3,300 fps but accuracy is best at 3,200 fps. Its a .5 moa rifle at 100 yards putting 5 shots into half and inch.
Everything that guy said about hunting with the AR15 is the exact same thing I tell people about why the AR platform is such a good one. I think there's definitely much better cartridge options then 300 Blackout like 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ARC, or even 350 Legend. That said if it gets youngsters in the woods hunting and they keep their distances in check that's all that really matters.
I agree with the 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC, and 350 legend in an AR. Almost no recoil and plenty energy for a deer at normal ranges.
Yeah, 6.5 Grendel or 6ARC would definitely be an upgrade and would cause the daughters to drop the claim to the blackout. Haha
Another good option would be the 7.62x39, especially if they can handload.
👍
Yes, whatever it takes to get some youngsters out of the house and in the woods would be great!!! We need more, not less hunters, and getting them off their phones for a little while will go a long way in their favor too!
I'm thinking about a 6.8 spc ii ar build for my woods gun. It's light, performs good in a 16 in barrel, can be found fairly cheaply and I can take quick follow up shots if I need to.
I used to load the .264 for my dad in 1963. 140 grain Nosler partition and 4831. That old model 70 was a nice gun.
I have built many 264 Win Mags. My current rifle currently has over 2,000 rounds and no velocity fall off. I like the 120 Nosler Ballastic Tip @ 3,350 FPS and 125 Nosler Partition. Recently bought some 121 Hammer Bullets. They are just over 3,300 FPS and are super accurate. It is a wonderful plains game and sheep cartridge.
Highly recommend you give it a try. Need to reload. I would recommend a longer action and bring the bullets out.
Thank God my favorite magnum is coming to the spotlight
Another great video!! My 264 win mag is a custom barreled Remington 700. The action has been trued, and the barrel is a 27” hart stainless Palma taper with a 1 in 8” twist. The rifle shoots like a dream. I’ve not felt the need to go to the 6.5 prc. My 6.5 Swede is a proven performer as well. I fear too many people fall victim to marketing hype! Newer isn’t always better :-). I am very thankful that the mindset of barrel twist rate is changing along with heavier more ballistically efficient bullets! Most of the “old cartridges” will equal or exceed the performance of the newer cartridges with faster twist barrels, newer powders, and higher bc bullets.
I agree that the 264 mag is an excellent choice for a 6.5 rifle but I don’t think I agree that people falling “victim” to marketing hype. When you go to buy a 6.5 mm rifle today in august of 2022 you would be very hard pressed to find anything in that diameter that isn’t a 6.5CM or PRC; A similar situation with the ammo. Your average shooter and even some more experienced shooters aren’t going to go out and have a custom rifle chambered for a cartridge they have never seen or possibly even heard of despite the advantages it may offer. I’ve seen it happen amongst many cartridges and diameters throughout my years working for a firearms retailer
Notice on nosler load data the 264 is heavily down loaded it outdoes the prc but the 6.5 prc is loaded hot by nosler but 264 win is tested on a 24 inch when it should be 26 inch and they load 84 percent its max and 6.5 prc is loaded to 108 percent so if you load the 264 to its max potential it far surpasses the 6.5 prc
You have brought this upon yourself :-) I'm always looking to learn: what is that 'ladder test' sir? Look forward to a vid on it!
Greets, T.
Ron, yet another great episode! Thanks for sharing mine and my daughters’ story with your audience. BTW, my youngest took a great antelope in NM last week with her grandfather’s Remington 700 in .243. (I took mine with an AR10 in .308. 😄) Cheers!
Great story! I remember my first shot and try to get my kids started on a smaller, lighter cartridge…
LOL on the floor!! 😃Hobo Kelly.. I see Linda I see John... Thanks you made my day!
love your content and admire how you're willing to listen to the common person and reasoning for why they shoot particular setups..
This ol man 71 who can’t see good enough to do any decent any good rifle justice anymore was in my past blessed with two 264. First was a post 64 model 70 factory silvertip. Loved it. Lucky enough to later in life pre 64 model 70 westerner stainless 26 barrel. Handloaded 140 sierra match king (for play and silhouette ). Along with nosler partions for deer. Got to where I never wven lifted the bolt. Any angle left to right up or down. If you wanted em pull the trigger. Those bullets ahead of a I can’t tell you how compressed charge of hodgins surplus 50 machine gun powder I run. Bolt was a little sticky. However. Never got enough shots thru it to heat barrel tremendously. 3Still shooting fine when second divorce downsized. Had 222 243 65x55 lovely. 308 3006 300 win mag. The only thing that shot flatter was a sako 220 swift. And had enough accuracy. Straight 10X unerrl. enough thump to not shoot enough to get that barre soft. Gun like that first shot out of a cold clean dry barrel what counts
If you want to get nit picky, I’ve done load test down to the tenth grain. 54.2 54.3 and so on and so forth. Sometimes its crazy what a couple tenths of a powder charge can do for grouping. Also read up on Satterlee test and speed nodes
Thanks for such a thoughtful response Ron. You’re such a fountain of knowledge, and yet you always seem open to other opinions.
Just trying to share what I know, politely. We've more than enough disagreement in our culture. Peace and joy.
Ron I enjoy your videos/ blogs you share lots of great information. I am so glad to hear you talking about 6.5 mm cartridges that have been around for decades and not the are not the CM or PRC. The .264 Winchester Magnum in a modern rifle with a fast twist barrel can handle all of the largest game in North America especially if using high BC Barnes all copper bullets that penetrate deep and do massive internal damage.
Bear hunting Appalachians:. I've been able to locate alot of bear in my home state in the fall. We can't run dogs or bait for them. Here are some tips for still and stand hunting for them. I'm north of Georgia but still in the same mountain range. Bear hit blueberries in June/July, blackberries in July/August, apples/black cherries in August/September, beech/acorns/corn crop in September/October and garbage/scavange after the mast crop is gone. Most of these except the apple trees exist on ridges. I started by looking at record harvest and went where most of the bear are killed in my state. They were listed by county and I went to the top 3 that had a lot of public land. I scout for bear from June on basically following them in the same pattern they feed. You gotta know your land and scout it often. It also helps to know which acorn species they prefer and their cycle for kicking the acorns. Generally the chestnut oak, white oak, and red oak in that order in my area. Beech is preferred above all but the crop is very irregular. I slowly still hunt ridges until I find fresh bear scat. It may take several days and It helps to know what each scat looks like on each food source. A bear is storing fat and wastes little energy at this time wondering around. Point is once they're feeding an area they will feed there until food is exhausted. At that point it becomes a stand hunt. Hunt down wind and shoot straight. Good luck. Be patient, I've had 3 opportunities in 4 years with this technique. I could tell you how many bear I've seen scouting and hunting but you'd call me a liar because the number's high. PS:. I don't use cameras to see this many bear. They're all personal encounters and great fun.
A great comment by Kyle and gracious repartee by Ron. Thanks to both!
The 264 Win Mag and the 6.5 Rem Mag were both ahead of their time I own and hunt with both. Accuracy and performance are both superb and both are hammers, I would add that neither of these cartridges would be suited to firing the volume of shots of a a true competition rifle, however for hunting deer, antelope, elk and caribou you will not be disappointed.
My dad stuck me behind a 30-06 Remington model 700 when I was 8 which was probably not the best thing to do but I loved it and still enjoy shooting to this day.
I have really wanted a 264 win mag for years, just no choices in factory rifles. Just the Winchester model 70 or a custom rifle. I would prefer over the 6.5 prc any day.
Another inciteful and informative presentation. I always appreciate your outlook and experience. Thanks for the great content.
Thanks Ron for the update brother 👍❤️
I started both my daughters on a 600 mohawk in 243 with Sierra 85gr BTHP. They at 36 and 41 still hunt along with my grand kids. I will use the 264 win mag with 120gr on white tails or the old 243 still today.
Love the content Ron, your reviews and experience have helped me buy a few rifles. Thanks Ron keep up the great work!👍
I'm running the 156 grain Berger EOL hunting bullets out of my .264 win mag at 3006 FPS with 59 grains of 7828ssc, and it's fairly mild. Dime sized groups at 100. The factory 6.5prc berger loads the same bullet at 2960.
Why hunt with an AR??? Because one chooses to. That alone is good enough!
Thank you Ron for the suggestion in setting the sites for the 300BO.
I would love to have a suppressor on a 300BO bolt action. But the ATF tyrants make it not worth it.
I run a Sauer 6.5x55 Swede. Shooting 130gr bullets I’m getting almost 2700 FPS. I think with the Sauer I can work up a true speedy Swede. I like the 130gr for some unknown reason. If I go to a Barnes I’ll drop down to a 120 for sure.
Come and support South Africa. You will feel very much at home here. Really great people and the best food in the world. You can choose between mountains, plains, and bushveld. We have it all!
The ladder test to find tightest group and between a good node would be a great knowledge tool for many of your listeners Thanks Rev. Paul by the way my first rifle was a 264Win bought straight from Gander Mt. and sent to my house in 1963
Thanks, Ron.
Ron I believe I have the pre 64 model 70 in the first year the .264 win mag was offered and I believe it was 1959. I found her on an estate auction and the scope was worth almost as much as I paid for the rifle. Shot my largest buck I’ve ever harvested with it last fall. I’ve always loved speedy rifles and never owned a .264 until last year but always admired it. After harvesting that deer I will never sell this rifle. It’s not the most accurate with most ammo but a friend had a box of 140 grain rem core locks that shoot 3/4 inch. I need to find more 140 core locks for reloading or factory either way would be fine. But finding a .264 or 6.5 diameter bullet that you want in today’s market is just a wish upon a star. It’ll consistently shoot 129 Barnes TTSX in 1.25 to 1.5 inches at 100. That is acceptable Accuracy for my hunting purposes anymore. Great stories again Ron. Tell more hunting stories would you they remind me of my youth and reading Jack!
Kyle story makes a concrete case for using the 300 Hamr in an AR!
I agree with the AR discussion...except go Grendel...lol
had my Dad's 264 since he bought it in 1968. 26 inch barrel. BSA action...that thing is a BEAST. And Way too much for New Hampshire Deer 🙂 but ballistically...tough to match in the 6.5 arena. ...even though it's a "Barrel burner" (a thing I will debate ...I have a bit of metallurgy background...)
Finally someone who understands that the 264 win mag has an undeserved reputation as a barrel burner
I have a pre-64 Rem 700 in 264 WinMag. It's been a safe queen for many years but this year it got a new updated stock, scope, bipod and I took it into the gunsmith first to scope the barrel. He said the barrel was fine, with zero throat erosion. Over the years I've personally shot 400 to 500 rounds through it and it was already 16+ years old when I got it. No reloads for it but with factory 140 Remington core-lokt it shot 1 moa groups.
Hey brother I love it 👍, that is a fine piece and ya it's to much there but dang your dad new what he wanted to take care of business with 👍❤️
The problem was with the shooter not so much the rifle . If you shoot 3 shoot groups and let it cool the throat will last along time ! You do not need 5 shot groups for a ( hunting rifle ) ! Honestly how often do you shoot 5 shots at an Elk ?…….
@@thomasdaum1927Lol right, I haven't ever harvested one we have some just east of me 40 miles away ,a repopulate area here in Tennessee ,yes on that barrel life ,it will do just fine for.
Great show. Thanks. Used mine extensivly for hunting and culling which require only headshots. Did impala and kudu in bush up to 300 m. Oryx.zebra eland .springbok in dessert up to 500 m. Realy flat trajetory .
Two calibers I’ve not seen much videos on or ever got the opportunity too shoot them. Thanks Ron for fun and informative videos. 💪🏽🎥💯👍
If you ever get your hands on a 264 you will not be disappointed I can promise you that
This is also my favorite caliber ron i would seriously appreciate a video on everything you know about the 264 win mag and you’re opinion of it
Hi Ron, the Texan that likes the AR/ 30 Blackout has some valid info.
Myself, when I see an AR or something similar at the ramge or in the field it makes me a little uncomfortable and expect less than stellar behavior from them....my 2 cents.
Regarding the .264 Westerner I wouldn't be bother by throat erosion, I was more bothered by the 26" barrel.
I am speaking from experienced at this, the 7 mm Remington has the same problem. The .270 wcf, .280 and 30/06 does not, hey and the .243 win is included in this and recoils minimally.
But it is a good thing we are still allowed to have our own opinion
Thanks Ron
Hi Ron,
Working up loads..... It has been mu experience that much can be learned if you invest a few dollars in a chronograph. Sure, start at the start loads for safety, they are always OK, then note the increase in velocity with each added grain of powder. You'll find that it is quite linear.... up to a point. Quite suddenly you'll notice a much larger increase in velocity with the same increment in powder charge. This is telling you that you have reached the bottom of that exponential pressure curve that can lead to bad things, and it's time to back down a grain for a safe max load. This is much more reliable that inspecting cases, primers etc. Brass, as you say, varies a lot, not just in capacity, but in hardness too, and the same goes for primer cups. Sticky bolt lift means you are way past the point of sanity, and are flirting with disaster.....a chronograph will keep you out of that territory entirely and still quickly establish a safe load for a particular rifle/case/primer,/projectile.
That's a lot of insurance for about a hundred or so bucks for the chrony....
Excellent advice, Kath! Thanks for sharing.
great story Kyle and family. other story re barrel life impact of express loads and magnums can now add cost of ammo and availability to this equation. even if you still want the express heavy magnum loads the cost and availability of ammo is a massive factor and recoil of course.
Been debating a 264 wm just because not a fan of the new stuff, not that they are bad just something different and old school in my opinion.
I run a 140gr SST going 3010fps in my 264 mag. After a bunch of struggles and hard learning lessons I have it at a 225 yard zero.
Obviously the .300 Blackout is the “West’s”, answer & equivalent to the “East’s”, AK-47 round, the 7.62x39 (parent cartridge the .220 Russian). To me the parallels are rather astounding when looking @ the 2 cartridges. That’s just me though. When our “middle”, son was a Senior in high school the Graduation Team put me in charge of the “Gun Giveaway”, for $$ to be used in their “Project Graduation”, events. I chose a New England Arms in the “Partner”, model single shot/break-over, stuck a Leupold VX-1 3-9x40mm scope. The gun itself had a 16 1/2” barrel with threaded end for suppressor use & added 1 box of cartridges. Oddly a kid from the “Senior Class”, that was of legal age, 18 actually won the rifle/scope combo & has it to this very day, which is 7-8yrs? Says it’s amazing on whitetail & he absolutely loves that little gun!! Faculty said that particular “Gun Giveaway”, made more money for the Senior Class than any other past guns in recent memory. I know the 1 thing buyers of the “Raffle Tickets”, said that it was “something cool & different for a change & a good break from the standard old cartridges that everyone buys for these raffles”. I was proud I chose what I did!
Definitely similarities between the 7.62x39 and 30-30 Win.
Yeah let's hear about that latter test pronto. Sounds interesting.
3 shots give a good show of accuracy
Now you've done it Ron, I'm going to take my AR10 in 308 out deer hunting this year. I was going to take my Rem700 in 264 WinMag that I recently updated.
What's the weight on your AR-10?
@@LRRPFco52 14 lbs loaded and with silencer.
Thank you 😊
Good video!
If 6 or so guys show up around the pickup truck or cabin with a few carrying AR-style rifles, fine w me. It's whatever we r comfortable with in order to shoot accurately for a quick humane harvest. My experience? Several use this platform, and a couple might have lever 30-30's, bolt actions for the rest? Not an issue for me.
Hey RonRon, if what you have on your table Is an example of the trophies you get from Africa, you can use a .22 Short For such big game Animals. No W. You know I'm just kidding right! Right info ! Shows are great to watch.
LOL Ron about that ladder test
I don't have any personal experience with them yet, but I've heard wonderful things about crusader safaris in South Africa
Yes, I've enjoyed 3 or 4 fine hunts with them. Delightful cabins, campfires, dinners. And the terrain is surprisingly steep and mountainous in places. Tell Andrew hi for me.
Would love a series on reloading from you Ron!
The original twist rate of 1-9 was a handicap. Just put a new barrel on a 700. 26" 1-8 twist. Brass is easy to come by. Can fling the 150gr ABLR at close to 3200fps.
Agree completely about 300blk.
As a shooter" of the day" on red deer and fallow in the UK no problem, barrel burn never even thought of it as never spent ages on the range the David LLoyd 264win mag held zero, one shot before a hunt was on.
Coastal areas for bears, with a nod toward NC..look for areas under cultivation where bear love to eat. The largest black bears in the world come from coastal NC and I suspect Ga and SC are close to the same...and maybe Va....at minimum its worth investigating ..I lived and hunted coastal NC for years with a .35 Whelen and was never disappointed.
Both are great calibers for elk or deer! If you go 264 you might want to get it in a stainless barrel which will slow the erosion down a little!
🤷♂️ While that sounds good, I believe that chrome-moly barrels are a bit harder, if I remember correctly? 🤔 But, it won't rust as much! 😁
Stainless is a little harder than chrome-moly, the difference in barrel life from one material to the other, all other things being equal, will come in YOUR shooting regimen. If you shoot 3 shot groups and keep the barrel cool, then yes stainless will tend hold accuracy a bit longer. But if you have a happy trigger finger, then I suggest a chrome-moly. It's a little bit more forgiving when dealing with heat.
🤠 Thank You for that information Mr. Gardiner! Good to know and for saving me the time to research it! 👍😁 Luckily for me, my "Big Magnum" days are behind me! 😂 I am taking a much "more sensible approach" to hunting now! 😜
@@ronlowney4700 glad my knowledge and experience of metallurgy from being an airframer and aviation Machinist in the Marine Corps, combined with my hobbyist gunsmithing and love of shooting the Corps helped instill in me, could be useful to someone!
🤠 I am an engineer, with a chemistry background as well! I never took any metallurgy classes though, but good stuff! 👍😁
The CX is also using the new tip that doesn't melt, like the ELD series uses.
🕵️♂️ When I wrote into Horneday about my 0.277 caliber bullets in the GMX having a higher B.C. than the new and "improved" CX, they told me it was because of the "new way" they measure the B.C. of their bullets! Unfortunately, they didn't go into detail as to what the "new way" vs. the "old way" was! But, you are correct that one of the changes was adding the heat shield tip, to prevent the tip from melting while in flight, at extended ranges! 🤷♂️
I was just thinking after Ron mentioned the 6.5 wasn't very popular in the US, but we knew of rounds like the 6.5 swede. Well there was also the 6.5 carcano. And the same year jfk was shot with the 6.5 carcano (and probably something else) the 300 win mag was introduced, after the 7mm rem mag the previous year. So I could see the 6.5 with the jfk assassination maybe being another thing that pushed people away from the 264 win mag
The best way to scout for bears is to find sign then follow until you find fresh scat in multiple they go where they eat or where they bed if you find 5 or 6 piles on the same trail you are where you want to be
Ron I'd love it if one of you well known guys would talk about 3 shot strings few mins between shots clean between groups I used to freeze a few washcloths over a dowel in my freezer and would hang them over the barrel to aid in cooling as I walked 300 yards down to change targets and back, 175 grain barnes in 338 win mag would heat up fast
I would love to hear your thoughts and technique for doing ladder testing.
Long time ago read article on different power type ak ball vs extruded and so on. Might talk to target shooter as what's easiest on barrel life
Just enjoy watching your videos.
So much common sense.
AR format and reference.
It fits, it hits, is my motto.
Whatever your comfortable with.
Firepower means nothing if you can't hit the target.
Well placed shot is a bird in the hand.
I'm a still Hunter.
I've never shot a deer or duck etc. On rest.
In fact nerves rack..
Acquire target, make sure background is safe and one and done.
Except for long range.
Point being is being comfortable with your gun.
Know your limitations and its.
If I'm headed to the Alder swamp I will grab a shotgun.
But if I know I'm going to bust out deer into an open field.
That's when scope is handy.
I hated initial red dot.
Over cast morning in the thicket.
It shut down because of lack of light.
It was totally legal hunting time, just in the thicket and overcast.
I digress .
Question, 2 or 1 eye shooter, especially with scope?
I'd always say two eyes. Gives better awareness and allows the same amount of light into both eyes. Competitive shooters almost always shoot with both eyes open.
Everybody disliked the 264 Win. The myth of barrel burnout, an average hunter will never burn out the throat. But now the 6.5 PRC is on.the scene, no talk of barrel burn out. The 264 win. Is better using 125/130 bullets, my personal favorite, Nosler Partition. 125 grain. Velocity kills, it has never failed me.
we had one when i was younger. a Belgium Browning with the cool gold trigger. it kicked like a mule and we did in fact burn up the barrel. a range trip to sight in a new scope. we shot 2 boxes of bullets in about an hour bt three people shooting it. got it sighted in very good. only 1/4" at 100 yards. but it was ruined. the first 2 shots on a cold barrel were at least 4 inches off target!! had to sell it for pennies on the dollar
I agree with all the statements made on the AR. But I do feel like he may have left out at least one......That being some of us learned how to shoot on AR's! It's the only platform I knew when I began hunting....I enlisted at 17 and didnt begin Hunting until age 30. By that time I owned AR's in a few different calibers so I hunted with what I had....Now 41 I'm in the middle on two different custom bolt gun builds just because AR's are now boring to me.lol
I always wondered if my 7 mag was a barrel burner. Also I recently picked up a 25-06 and had thought about that one also.
Hornady did a podcast on the CX bullets. I've watched most of it (Kind of long) and they did mention that they changed the allow up some. They said with the new allow it will expand at velocities as low as 2,000fps (high expansion velocity has always been the draw back to these mono bullets) .. They also advertise 95+% weight retention, so the petals are designed to stay on.
My go to rifle has been the 264 win mag. been shooting of 2 that I've owned never hD to have a fallow up shot but one time snd it wasn't the guns fault got nudge as I pulled the trigger, that like 20 + elk an 30+ mule deer and that many pronghorn, even if it wasn't a perfect shot they went down. Using 130 gr Hornady and 4350 H powder
🤔 But, it doesn't mean that the petals never RIP off! And, when they do, it damages meat unnecessarily that you had no intentions of harming - because you expect your bullet to go where you put it (aim)! That is why I still am a fan of Swift A-Frame bullets, because they are as tough as these monolithic bullets, but don't have petals that RIP off and they mushroom wider and drive straight through to create an exit wound (and one that is larger)! Just my 2 cents! 🤷♂️
@@ronlowney4700 beginning this year though the a-frame bullet is no longer legal to use on federal land. New rule prohibits the use of traditional bullets (anything containing lead) on federal lands.
This is the reason I have been researching the CX bullets. I agree that it is still possible for one of the petals to break off, but my comment was in regards to where Ron said he wasn't sure if they were designed to break off or not. Hornady did not design these to break off.
🤯 I never heard anything about the Federal Land and "Lead Issue"! 😯 Good to know! I guess that I shouldn't be surprised? It seems like this Administration is doing everything that they can to attack gun owners? Luckly we have some fall elections comming up and can then remind them as to who they work for! It is time to fire a bunch if these so called "public servants"! 😜
This is a good matchup…but that 264 win is a special cartridge…loaded with modern-high BC bullets the 264 win beats the prc all day.
@@chrisp308 newer, slower burning powders and more controlled velocities can help minimize that.
@@chrisp308 I don’t get what you’re saying, I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings with my assessment. I didn’t say that the PRC isn’t a great cartridge - because it is. The 264 win beats it in pretty well every facet though with the exceptions to that being barrel life and cartridge availability.
@@chrisp308 thanks and you too!
🤷♂️ You would think, because of the larger powder capacity it has, even though the operating pressure is 1,000 psi lower! But, that is not what the #9 Nosler online Reloading Manual says! Your thoughts? Are you really sure you're correct? 🤷♂️
@@ronlowney4700 I’m not sure what I had for breakfast! I could definitely be wrong. I’m going off what my buddy says, he has both. I’m always willing to learn something though!
I like the .264 Win Mag and use it for Antelope Deer and Caribou and for years reloaded Nosler 120gr BT but when I went Caribou I went to Nosler 130gr AB and with my load I’m getting 3200 FPS and I sight it in at 300 yards. Has there anything I shot that I would not of tried with the .270 Win No and that goes also for my 6mm Rem. My average shot on Antelope has been just under 300 yards and most Deer I have shot just over 200 yards out West.
Ron, I would love to hear your specific recommendations for plains game in South Africa and Namibia.
I was in the hunt to buy another .264 caliber. Started looking seriously at the 264 win mag, but then learned about the 6.5 prc. Problem solved.
The 264 needs slow burning powders. N565 or N570.
I’ve had half a dozen in different configurations.
You can get 3150 to 3200fps with 140’s.
Perfect for conditions here in Australia.
Just saw my first box of factory loaded 6.5 PRC ammo at Rural King last week!
I have seen match factory loads once, but not hunting loads yet
@@lorenzotelleria1858 The Hornady load they had in stock was the 143 grain ELD-X
I shoot 3 different 6..5 chambers, .260, 6.5 Creed, and 65-284 Norma, but the scarcity of factory ammo for the PRC is the reason I haven't bought this rifle yet.The 6.5-284 is my favorite.
H1000 is perfect for the 264 WM in how cool it burns, so is N160.
Those powders are too fast for the 264.
I have thought about getting a .264 Win Mag. I have a lot of 7 Rem Mag brass - you would definitely want to keep the 7mm and .264 separated. Otherwise BOOM
the 6.5PRC ammo is readily available in 143 and 147 ELDX, I shoot a Bergara HMR Pro Premier, with NF NXS optics, it is a very low recoil with the setup I have. And IMO VERY accurate \, I also have a custom .264 win mag, great gun, Do I see one over the other , hmmm not really
I’m also shooting a custom 264 w/26” krieger 1:8.5 twist using Berger EH’s 140 and 156’s. NF NXS 5.5-22x56 mil-dot. Extremely accurate and effective on deer and wild hogs. Rarely they run.
Please do a video explaining the ladder test...
I have a 264 win mag and a 6.5prc. Both have 26 inch Brux 8 twist barrels. Both shoot 140 Berger’s 1/2moa or better. The big difference is the 264 runs them at 3280fps and is about 150 fps faster than the 6.5prc.
270 vs 6.5 better match up. Really if 270s twist was 1 in 9 or 1 in 8 I wouldn't think these discussions would be around. 6.5 06 might be best 6.5.
🤑 And, I am going to do that with one of my 270 Winchesters - rebarrel it with a faster twist! 😜
I’ve been hunting large rifle and large rifle magnum primers now for over 2 years. It’s dry as a bone out there.
Check Butch’s reloading, Powder valley, and Widener’s reloading and shooting supplies
I've heard that throat burning is bad in the .243 Winchester and is well known. I also heard the reason given was the angle of the shoulder directing hot gas in just the wrong direction in relation with the length of the neck. I have never heard the same thing about the 6mm Remington. No idea if it's true.
“There are all my dears”, hah! U cheeser. Thats something my grandpa would say about my grandma
I spent some time in Georgia. South of Albany in the Okefenokee swamp. Be careful hunting bears because there are a lot of huge alligators in there that might hunt you. LOL
Ron, did the reduction of velocity happen to coincide about the same time with the advent of long range shooting and all the new 6.5's being produced. Could this be a ruining of the .264 WM so us hunters would purchase newer products?
Nah, it came about as pressure tested evolved and they realized that a lot of the loads out there were a tad warm…
The 6.5 PRC is just a modern version of the 270 Win,
6.5-300, 257 Weatherby, 7mm remmag. Try these 3.
7STW
I have a Winchester Model 70 custom that was built for my Grandpa. It is the .264 Win Mag Westerner but built with stainless and has a custom stock. It topped with the original scope still. A Weaver “square 8”. Just an awesome setup and one of my most precious possessions. It still shoots lights out. I took it for one season elk hunting and got a cow with it. Been retired since as I couldn’t risk damaging it in the field.
However I have done some looking and I believe the .264 WM and the 6.5 RPM match up very very closely. Almost like that was Weatherby’s goal. They both outperform the PRC.
🤔 Ok "Magnum Man", mabey you can answer this question for me, to back up your claim? The 264 Winchester Magnum has more case capacity and can use more powder (about 8 grains more), but it's chamber pressure is 1,000 psi slower! So, I would tend to agree with you, that you would be correct! However, when we look at the "performance" in the online Nosler #9 Manual, it shows the 6.5 prc as being faster! 😱 Obviously, Nosler is a competitor to Horneday, so it is of no benefit for them to Lie! 🤥 So, why is the 6.5 prc shown to be faster by Nosler and thus, contradicts your claims? 🤯 Any thoughts? 🤷♂️
@@ronlowney4700 simple. They want to make the the 26 Nolser look untouchable. They do the same thing to all the Weatherby cartridges as well. Rifles are no different then engines. There is no replacement for displacement. How many 6.5 PRC’s do you see in 26” bbl’s? The extra case capacity as well as longer barrel lengths will put the 264 ahead. However, it doesn’t have the twist rates that the PRC benefits from nor the tighter tolerances. A custom builder could obviously do that and they have. When they do, the results have been very good. The capacities for the cases are 72.3 PRC, 81gr RPM (@ 65,000 btw), and 82gr for the .264 WM. As you can see, like I said I believe Weatherby set out to mimic the .264 in a modern case and that’s why the capacity is nearly identical. I don’t know why you got all bowed up over my comment? I never said the PRC is bad. I just said the others can top it. I have no use for PRC and will never own one having my other rifles. Maybe the .300 someday for the heck of it, but if I buy another 6.5, it would be the RPM. Why? Because they are built in WY.
🤷♂️ This had absolutely nothing to do regarding any criticisms, but rather the conflict in between what the Nosler Manual said and what you would expect to see? So, I asked the same question to ALL 264 Winchester owners and 6.5 prc owners, and to Ron Yesterday! I have heard multiple reports that the 6.5 prc was not getting the velocities that Horneday claimed? Additionally, Horneday has scaled back the velocities on their Factory Ammunition for the 6.5 prc! So was it because of pressure issues, accuracy issues, or was it because their velocities were not what they initially claimed? To make me question it all the more, Horneday chose not to use the 6.5 prc case for the 7mm prc (as you would have expected)? Further, since Nosler is Horneday's competitor, so they have no need to lie! So, these anomalies beg the question as to exactly what the 6.5 prc is capable of, because I am seeing and hearing alot of conflicting reports? I do suppose that the 7mm prc will kill any 6.5 prc sales, which they don't seem to be marketing anymore either (I also find that curios, as well as the lack of factory ammunition support in their hunting ammunition in the 6.5 prc)! So, that is what my questions were about, not any criticisms of you! But I do thank you for trying to answer my questions! I wrote Horneday and they did respond regarding some of my questions "indirectly", but somewhat skirted the issues by answering me directly! So, I figured ask someone with a chronograph and who owns one of these calibers, including Ron? It seemed like a good time to ask, since Ron brought it up and others have vocalized their preferences! 😜 Hopefully, Ron's "Deep Dive" on the issue will put some of these questions I have to rest? 🤪 Best Wishes and Happy Hunting! 🤠
@@ronlowney4700 gotcha. Speaking .264, I can tell you doing handloads, I have been easily able to exceed the books and had zero pressure signs. With a 130gr scirocco, I was at 3350 not pushing it. But that’s my imparticular gun and they are all different. As far as the PRC. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were some wrong data put out there. I have seen the manuals be wrong before. I know I hunted with a couple of guys that tried the 6.5 PRC on elk and was not impressed. One lost a monster bull to end up being taken by another hunter about a mile away. They are both shooting 6.5-300 Wby’s now. I was actually surprised they didn’t use the 300PRC case with the 7mm as the 6.5 I think would be way to small imho.
🤠 If they were using the Horneday ELD-X, that would not surprise me at all! I saw something similar last year, but I suspect it was the bullet more than the caliber, but who knows? He shot the bull elk 3 times in the vitals and it didn't go down until a couple of minutes later! 😱 Not a chance that I am willing to take! ☹ So, I'll stay with something I know that works! 😁
264 in an Sendero
How do you do your ladder test??
I have issues doing my ladder test at far ranges holding completely zero. Prone on a pod with bags. Ive done 100 in the past but some “nodes” you cant then notice if all are grouping well. Easier when they aren’t. Ive never had a bad grouping rifle like you sometimes mentions.
I have found my milsurps to be the most picky but even my hex mosin tightened up sub moa.
Even back in the day there was H 5010 and H 870 witch would give very good velocity with the 140 gr bullet in the 264 Win mag .they were both surplus military 50 cal powder . If you could find it !……..
H1000 & Retumbo too
@@ronkay1573 They didn’t come along till the 80s I believe , I was talking about the 60s and 70s . Very few slow powders available unless you knew someone in the ammo industry where there was some slow non canister powders available to them and very little data !…..
@@ronkay1573they’re on the fast side for a 264.
I have some carvings like that from Tanzania