264 Win Mag: Killed off by gun writers?
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- In this video I discuss the somewhat forgotten 264 Winchester Magnum. I talk the history and why you don't see many of them today. Did gun writers kill it off? Or was it something else? Hope you enjoy the video!
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I have long been a fan of the 264 Winchester magnum I have two of them. They are definitely not the barrel burner that they were made out to be and one very important thing to remember about the cartridges. You absolutely have to have a 26 inch barrel to make it work like it was designed to
You should look at the 6.5x68 made in Germany. It was the 264 win mag but beltless, and came out in the 1930’s.
I enjoy your channel a lot and you should look at some German cartridges that had amazing performance way before we built them in America. Especially the 8x68
I love my .264 WM . I'm keeping this one alive with Speer Impact 140gr and Norma Oryx 156gr both bonded buddy system. Factory ammo offerings are low but custom loads really bring out it's true potential. Performance rivaling the 6.8 Western is good enough for me.
Nice
I totally agree !
My father had a 264 Winchester magnum. He loved that rifle. Very glad to see you posted this video. Not enough good content on this round. Always enjoy your videos.
Although considered ‘obsolete’ the .256 Newton in a modern commercial model 98 action with the original 1:10 twist rate, as per Charles Newton’s build, can push a 128gr Nosler Partition at 3215 fps average with an ES of 4 fps handloaded with Norma 204 or IMR 4350. That’s the stats from the rifle I built based on Charles Newton’s original specs. The 6.5-06 will perform almost identically with handloading. And, yes, the writers of the day did kill the .264 Win Mag, and yes, the 7mm REM Mag also contributed to the unpopularity of the .264 Win Mag. Great video, keep up the good work.😎
6.5 Remington Magnum: Big
264 Winchester Magnum:
Bigger
6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum:
Biggest
I believe the only trio of belted magnum cartridges in the same caliber that go from short action-long action-magnum action. Big fan of all 3 :)
I have a .264 Model 70 that my Dad gave me as a graduation gift 30 years ago. It’s definitely a deer killing machine. You gotta be careful with your bullet length, the 1:9 twist rate is definitely an issue. I don’t know why Winchester won’t start manufacturing new Model 70’s chambered for .264 with a 1:8 twist. They could see a resurgence perhaps of this old workhorse.
Never happen . Hornady is overtaken any chance of that withe prc family. Much better accuracy n tighter chambers w the 6.5 prc . The 264win mag is dead n will remain that way. The prc is the future the 264win mag is the past.
@@REDNECKROOTS.264 win mag will outperform a 6.5prc with a custom 1-8 barrel, case holds more powder and can shoot heavier bullets faster.
@@eddielombera5862 were not talking custom rifles with fancy custim twist barrels. We're talking off the shelf turn key rifles. 6.5prc walks all over 264win. Not to mention nobody has new 264 factory rifle chamberings in any new rifles. It's a no brainer what to pick in today's world
@@REDNECKROOTS well I’m talking solely on the cartridge itself, the .264 win mag is a better cartridge. It’s a dead cartridge thanks to the 7rem mag… if it started getting chambered again and released with a standard 1/8 twist it would kill the 6.5prc in power and accuracy if it wanted to.
@eddielombera5862 no doubt that hand loading its superior in vel to 6.5 prc. if ya go custom twist it's superior in every way.. but lije u said its a dead cartridge. Not sure why . It's great
As far as i can tell for most hunters the "Barrel Burning" thing is a non issue. The complaints saying the barrel wears between 600-900 rounds, most hunters I know shoot 10-15 rounds per year (3 to confirm zero and the rest to fill the tags). Some quick napkin math would put that as a minimum of a 40 year barrel life for the metallurgy of the time, with todays better materials that number just goes up.
I was looking at a used model 70 in .264 mag at the lgs the other day. I don't need another rifle in that class but I can't say I wasn't tempted for a moment.
The .264 Win Mag is as Winchester envisioned as the Ultimate Western Deer & Antelope Cartridge and for Me it has been since the mid 1980’s. Just FYI my handload has a Nosler 130gr AB at 3208 FPS in a 24 inch barrel.
Great performance!
I have a 264 and it's amazing! Highly recommend it.
Thanks for commenting
I love mine as well
Imagine if this was re-released with shallow seating depth like the modern 6.5s AND corresponding firearms with match chambers like modern 6.5 rifles. This would be the new "IT" cartridge. I've never seen a rifle in 264 win mag in person and that's a shame.
I have a Mod 70 pre 64 chambered in 264 the rifle is one of first production models produced in this caliber in 1959, when I purchased it the rifle came with an extra brand new barrel.I did bore scope the barrel and it appeared the barrel was toasted with aggressive throat erosion. I then aggressively cleaned the barrel with Remington 40 x bore cleaner, to my surprise this returned the barrel to almost new condition. I actually believe that label of this rifle as a barrel burner is way way overrated and the result of owners especially back in the day not properly cleaning their rifles.In the end this gun is good for another hundred years, Totally awesome.
My first rifle, purchased new in 1973, was a post '64 model 70 in .264 win mag. There was some sequence of working the bolt and the 3 position safety that would lock the action. Wouldn't fire, couldn't work the bolt, couldn't move the safety. It would take minutes of fiddling to free it up. Strike #1. The factory ammo bullets were not designed for 264 velocities. Remington core-lokt would not expand and Winchester stuff would blow up on impact. Shot a mulie buck once at about 100 yds, behind the shoulder slightly angling away, and found shrapnel throughout from right behind one ear clear back to the back of the far hind-quarter. Never lost an animal with Win ammo but ruined alot of meat. Lost several well hit animals with Rem. Strikes #2 and #3. Started reloadin with Sierra bullets and solved the ammo problem but the locking up soured me completely on the gun.
This is my dad’s favorite muley and pronghorn cartridge. He has a pre-64 model 70 Western that would shoot 140 Partitions at 3000 fps into 3/4” groups. I watched him shoot a 175” muley at 350 yards across a canyon in PJ country in Western Colorado. The buck was hit just behind the shoulder and folded at the shot. Awesome cartridge that I think met it’s demise because of the 7MM Rem Mag.
Thanks for sharing!
This is such an underated cartridge kind of like the 25 06. If you are looking for something that hits hard, shoots flat, and don't have too much recoil this is it. I guess they make a 160 grain Woodleigh bullets for this and it has over 3, 200 ft. lbs of energy with that kind of energy you should be able to take even the bigger bears. If you use this right then the barrel burner problem shouldnt be an issue.
I really like the idea of sheep hunting in Western Alberta with a 264 Winchester Magnum. I recall seeing the glossy advertisements in 1960s era Gun Digests for the Winchester model 70 Westerner chambered in 264 Win Mag.
That's cool
I run a 264wm and LOVE it. Deer are DRT every time with 120gn NBT pushed by IMR4350. Its my favorite caliber now.
Nice! Hope you enjoy the video!
I use to run that load in my.264 Win Mag and even made my longest shot a little over 500 yards with is but at close range it is not a tough enough bullet for the .264 Win Mag and I have moved on to Nosler 130gr AB you might want to try it.
@@sha6mm I stuck with the NBT bc I lucked onto a 5/8” group on my second test load and it just dropped all of the deer we shot. But Im actually starting to use AB for a couple other rifles, I’ll work some up for the 264 and see what happens.
@@Buckshot1217
My shot the Nosler BT into 2.44 inch groups at 300 yards and the Nosler 130gr AB in .7 inch at 100 yards. I have yet to check it at 300 yards. But I am sure it will preform.
Glad you threw in the 6.5-300. Great video, i didn't realize that my .270 was just about as good as my dad's. 264 win mag.
Thanks for watching!
Always watch your stuff. I really enjoy your channel.@@ReloadingWeatherby
@@gunman-6646 I appreciate it
I noticed with modern reloading since the 30TC development, the cartridges that are popular have higher speeds published in books such as 6.5 Creedmore and .28 Nosler, much higher than I can achieve. Compared to little older cartridges which I get speeds are higher than published, for example such as .260 Remington and 7mm Remington Ultra Mag.
Got to convince people to get the new stuff
yep@@ReloadingWeatherby
My 264 is ruger 77 hawkeye with 24 inch barrel, ive had it 15 years now, bought it new, have taken antelope, mule deer, and elk with it, 120s will do 3300 fps, 130s 3200, 140s 3130, 160s 2970, i will say if your going to handload for it, buy a chronograph and use powders that are slower than IMR 4831, theres nothing like shooting 140s at 3800 fps with no pressure signs with starting loads from a variety of manuals with IMR 4831, winchester designed the 264 with a two diameter bullet, the 100 grain soft point and 140 power point, all other bullets arent made that way and create more pressure quickly, remington took the 264 case and necked it up to 7mm to make the 7 rem mag, if your unable to find 264 cases, neck down the 7mm and youll have plenty of brass, also, the remington 140 corelokt is better factory ammo for taking game than the winchester 140 power point, the power point is good for jacket separation, only power point ive seen shed the jacket, although the winchester ammo is faster, 3080 fps verses 2940 for the remington corelokt in my rifle, for powders, ramshot magnum and magpro, IMR 7828 and the ssc version, hodgdon US 869 all give the velocities stated above in my rifle, for the heavy bullets, ive shot the 155 lapua mega, 160 hornady interlock, 156 norma alaskan, 156 norma vulkan, 156 norma oryx, 160 woodleigh weldcore, and the 155 privi soft point all with excellent results, lastly, barrel life, my rifle has over 3000 full power rounds through it, the throat is a little dark for the first inch or so of barrel, but will shoot most bullets into a half inch or less for 5 shot groups at 100 yards all day every day, i will say its a specialized cartridge and requires more attention to detail if you handload for it than other cartridges, but theres not many cartridges id say are better than it is, i dont plan on getting rid of mine in my lifetime, it is a great round
Thanks for commenting
My 264 Win Mag is kickin around. Does pretty dang with with those Hammer bullets!
Oh nice
with the bullets and powders of today this should be a fine cartridge , always wanted a pre 64 model 70 in one thansl
I am astonished how some people ignore cartridges not developed in the USA. The 6,5x68 Schüler came out in 1939, a slightly more potent round than the 264 Win Mag. Same max pressure and a higher case capacity. It was developed by necking down the 8x68S. So the 264 Win Mag was not the hottest 6.5 mm when it was launched.
There are some wildcats based on the 68mm case: .25×68, .270×68, 7×68mm, .30×68, .338×68, .375×68 or .416×68
There are also some improved by blowing out the case of the 6,5x68,
I wonder if the number of hunters who actually burned out a barrel exceeded 10 people.
I agree. We keep hearing about the noslers burning barrels down, but for someone who hunts, how long does it actually take you to shoot 900 times? Even at 40 rounds a year thats over 20 years of shooting.
I can understand why it didn't become very popular. Not much different than the already popular 270 Winchester and can't shoot the heavier bullets like the 7mm Remington Magnum. Personally, the 264 Win mag has cool factor written all over it and I like using cartridges that not everyone has or is real mainstream. My extreme weather model 70 264 has a 26" barrel and it flat out performs on deer sized game. Maybe i have old school thinking in mind but I like speed. Speed kills and I am just not on the faster twist, high bc, heavier grain bullets for long range shooting train. I'm just a hunter who tries to keep my shots within 400 yards. Ive had really excellent results hunting out west using high velocity cartridges shooting the proper bullets for the game with my 264 win mag, 7mm wsm, and my new 240 weatherby Magnum.
I do love my 264 win msg but recently I’ve been favouring the 6.5x300 weatherby
its true about the barrel burn, i had one, rebarreled it twice,, about 700 shots were it for a barrel,, but it is on par with other hot 6.5s,, the twist is what killed it off, the 7mm rem mag was its fate,,
I want one. To complete my win mag collection.
Simple. Google. Guns International has several, and others
The Winchester 70 with the maple stock is pretty. Cabela's had one in 264 and I almost bought it except I've never seen ammo for it around me so decided not to get it
I’m impressed with the penmanship
Well Thank you! haha
The 264 Win Mag was a fine gofer cartridge but one needed a .02 inch larger diameter bullet and 35 more grains of lead to kill an elk.
Hi, as always very cool and informative video.
Is there any particular reason other than entertainment why you used so many different bullets for the comparison? Since you fixed it at 130 grains the twist of the 264 wasn’t the issue. Wouldn’t the Scirocco fit in the 264, it is only 0.03’ longer than the Accubond? Thx
One other small thing, you might want to check the ft-lb number for the 264 at 400. It has a G1 of 0.488 which gets me to 1600 ft-lb at 400 (129 Accubond LR, 1650)
I was just trying to use bullets with similar weight that you can get in factory ammo.
@@ReloadingWeatherby thx. See, I am so deep down in my reloader rabbit hole that I didn’t make that connection 😂. That makes of course a ton of sense.
Iv noticed that a lot of the loading books hold back on load data for the 264! I don’t know if that is to play it safe with people having a lot of older model rifles or what but I can take my model 70 seat the bullets out where they belong and push 140 accubonds at 3180 with IMR 8133
They do...
I love my dad"s .264! It's really not the barrel burner that they claim it to be. He has shot more rounds through it than i could count. He bought a new barrel for it thinking that it was shot out, took it to a gun smith who checked the barrel with a bore scope and-------- the old barrel was still good. New barrel is on, still have the old barrel, doubt i will shoot it out in my lifetime.
I do talk about the overreaction of the gun writers and the perceived poor barrel life.
Build or re-barrel your 264 Win Mag with a fast-twist (1:7.5 or 1:8) 26" barrel and shoot Berger 156 EOL handloads at 3,150 fps, as I do, without exceeding SAAMI pmax. A Weatherby 6.5 x 300 will beat it a tiny bit, but will also burn the barrel even faster.
Impressive
Extend your barrel life by avoiding boattail bullets in hot loads.
6.5-06 is great too.
6.5CM Hornady Match Loads (120g vs 147g) 4DOF results. Under 500yds, is the shorter, lower BC bullet flatter than the longer bullet?
Probably
Anybody who already owned a sweet .270 probably doesn't think the 6.5mm tube is that big a deal. I love 6.5s but was never that hot for the winmag.
Boddington uses it quite a bit now and then .
Biggest problem with 264wm is 1-9" twist..even the old 6,5x55swede has a faster twist with 8,66" .all the new 6,5mm cartridge have 1-8"
Yeah
I’d try high bc . 1-9 is pretty good really . My 270 stabilizes 160s with a 1-10
Yeah
A guy over here in Norway found a Match free rifle action, he got a McMillan stock and thick and long Walther barrel, and a Zeiss scope . And then some new Swift Aframe 140 grain. The deer sniper was borne ,he shot out one barrel mostly on game, and recently got a new barrel .
If you look at the numbers in the reloading manuals, the .264 Magnum doesn't beat the .270 by very much in the velocity department with an equal length barrel. It should, quite easily, but it doesn't. That might be a reason as well...gun nuts notice that sort of thing.
Any 6.5mm magnum will not be efficient
Gun writers are soo full of it. Just look at the comments from Gun Digest back in the day. At one time the 300 H&H was thought to be more than most shooters could handle because of
recoil. Short actions that will never be important on a hunting rifle are the rage. Winchester short magnums were unnecessary and failed accordingly.
The .264 Win mag has not got a chrome lined barrel like the new junk to save barrel life, and it is not loaded to 65K pressures either.
Half of the cartridges promoted today are nothing more than marketing gimmicks. They bring nothing to the table but a new rifle to sell.
Im looking to. Get one i think it would be great for what I do 🦌
Do it!
I have 6.5 prc Shooting 142 nolzer with rl26 with the max loaded in Hornaday book gives me 3150fps with a 24inches baller
Nice! Thanks for sharing
@ReloadingWeatherby your welcome gift it a try and let me know
I forgot also I used Remington 9 1/2 large mag primers
338 Weatherby RPM vs 33 Nosler?
G'day people what's the RPM stand for, I know it's not revs per minute, something precision magnum maybe, thanks cheers Yogi 👍
@@brettstewart8765 rebated precision magnum
@@GeneralObeseus thanks for the reply mate appreciate it cheers Yogi 👍
My 140vld and eld run 3050 to 3100…95gr v max 3625fps
6.5prc waypoint carbon 24”
130tmk and rdf 3265fps
Thanks for sharing
Winchester one upped themselves with the .270 Winchester.
The .264 walked so that the 6.5 Creedmore and PRC could run….
Hahaha
A few of us old timers were running with it in the 60's, and still are, and with new powders and bullets it will run right with the newbies. Don't discount experience.