Differences Between Scholar and Sage - What the Heal Am I Doing? with FFXIVMomo
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Welcome to a new series by FFXIVMomo called "What the Heal Am I Doing?" In this series, Momo walks us through what it takes to be a healer and how to save your party in even the most dire of situations. In this first episode Momo covers the differences between Scholar and the much anticipated Sage. Thanks for stopping by and remember to like and subscribe!
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![FFXIV Endwalker: Level 90 Scholar Guide Opener, Rotation, Stats & Playstyle [Outdated]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hw5uOba34UI/mqdefault.jpg)
what healer am i playing in EW? answer: Paladin :-D
Red Mage best mage.
Warrior
The correct answer
*Cough* Warrior *Cough*
Getting Momo on board was the best call you could make. Love me some Sage content.
@Orionpk The creator of this video, czcams.com/users/FFXIVMomo
Momo, the best content creator and guide for healers! Congratz Icy Veins on the initiative ❤
Sticking with scholar, since you taught me how to use it so effectively.
Swiftcast + Protraction + Fey Illumination + Dissipation + Recitation + Adloquium + Deployment Tactic….You wouldn’t know what’s a shield healer till you had this shield.
Even Endsinger cried in despair and desperation to break it.
As a long time healer main, but also kind of dumb, thank you so much for making this easy to understand and still thorough!
Momo is an amazing healer and definitely one of the best healers out there. I started as Scholar and his guides help me a lot. Great choice!
I think it's really cute that icyveins has an FFXIV page.
I main Scholar (as much as you can main in this game anyway), and based on what Sage does I can't say for sure if I'd like it or not. Doesn't mean I won't try it, no reason not to. All that being said, I find Scholar to be pretty chill, surprisingly. Its mostly about resource management and planning in advance.
They do have a lot of similar abilities, and we can trust that balance will be pretty close. Which begs the question of which one is more fun. Scholar has been getting all of it's fun toys removed over the years while very little of its janky pet and ability mechanics have been addressed. Meanwhile Sage has no pet to worry about and is the first new healer in 6 years so everything will be fresh. As a Scholar main since 2.0 I know what I'm choosing!
Except we now know Sage is worst than Scholar in every respect. No pet. Kardia sucks. Same potency heals for most part. Only thing sage can do better is cast succor and Adlo on the fly and choose between physicks and succor with or without shield every cast instead of every 15 seconds with an ogcd. And SCH ogcds are far better than Sage. If you thought Scholar sucks, its still far better than Sage. Mobile dps, mobile aoe dps, passive kardia becos of fairy, passive shields becos of Seraph, massive shields on ogcd, massive group heals on ogcd. Sage sucks.
Scholar for life.
As much as I wish our aetherflow replenish like sage’s adderflow, and our sacred soil works like kerochole (point blank instead of placement), I still find scholar to be closer to my heart than any.
Comparing scholar to sage is like comparing protoss’ immortal to archon, one has good base heal on top of shield and the other have more component in shield. I’m a pre shield routine, sage has cheaper shield on long run, but if play well, scholar would be better due to the extra heal on top of its shield.
I mean, toolbox wise sage definitely had em more clear cut, scholar’s toolbox is just everywhere, none to be complaint though, it’s just a lot of cds to be utilised and hence higher skill cap.
Sage imo is more like a sustenance healer than scholar. It aim to reduce dmg taken while allowing their Kardon and Soteria to sustain the ongoing damage. Scholar is still the mech cheeser as we always did.
Scholar for life!
@@Cimegs5088 sch we can stack 9 of them in a fly, they cannot, they have to keep using them
@@zlonewolf yea after playing both scholar is way better. Micromanaging kardia is a nightmare and nobody even does it so in effect you just keep over healing 1 tank unnecessarily. Choosing when to use af stacks is just better and leads to better damage output. The healing output is also better and the shields are too. Oh and you can boost crit hit too.
Sage is still fun but it’s not even close.
I'll be leveling sch and ast before sage. I have both at level 80 already and my sch is tied to my smn... so that's a major plus. I kind of wish they would give us Eye for an Eye back. I also love the idea of aoe sprint while in combat. I get caught pretty often in those room wide AoE attacks with a single safe zone. It's worth noting that Sage is extremely similar to redmage (traditionally in final fantasy.) The main difference between the two is redmage focuses on black and white magic with melee potential and sage focuses on all colors of magic, excluding blue, without any melee potential. ff4 had the best sage in all of ff and the next expansion is themed heavily in ff4's world. Also, the Nu Moa are a race of sages in ff tactics/ Ivalice. It's only fitting that Alphi becomes a sage. His sister is a redmage and he is a friend to the Nu Moa.
SGE has many similarities to the existing nocturnal AST, including some (though not all) of its weaknesses. Which makes sense, since it is basically just replacing it. I wouldn't be surprised to see SCH quickly retake its "default shield healer" spot once people get over the novelty of SGE. Hopefully having it be a separate class instead of just one aspect of AST will make it easier to balance, though. And I definitely plan on playing it a lot. Even though I suspect SCH will end up being stronger for cases when you need a shielder, SGE still looks more fun.
Scholar can crit shield with recitation and succor/adlo. Sage cannot as often. Recitation is guaranteed crit shield. Adlo plus Deployment tactic is something Sage can only dream of. You are thinking Scholar. Sage wish they can look cool but Scholar IS the old school shield healer. I give Sage the esthetics though. But its a wamnabe hot mess of a shield healer compared to Scholar. The thing that Sage can do well that Scholar cannot is cast Gcds on the fly.
Good job on choosing your staff here well, Icy Veins. Momo is top tier.
Great informative video! So excited to unlock Sage ^^ Thank you so much and keep up the great work!
Nice guide and great info, comparing the two side-by-side per level was very useful as a SCH main. Although, the 'bouncing' effect at 3:11 was a bit distracting. You need more subscribers, for sure.
I was disappointed Momo didn't attend the media tour, but in truth, it has been a blessing in disguise for him.
Amazing job, Momo!
SE are you watching?
8PM 09PM 0908999
You sound a lot like this other CZcamsr called FFXIVMomo. Have you heard of FFXIVMomo? They make very good FFXIV videos. The videos are precise & understandable. On the point & detailed.
Thank You for the video. Your videos are precise & understandable. On the point & detailed.
I know that this video is only looking at heals but I think it's important to note that the Sage gets a resource when his Eukrasian Diagnosis shield is broken. Casting GCD shields feel more rewarding as a Sage. Especially if you add that Sages can cast shields without cast times.
I will probably play both. Sage looks fun. And especially in casual content where you don't need to heal, having more damage options than Scholar seems appealing.
But this is also the first expansion where Scholar looks better than before. With the change to cast time for Broil, this will feel like a different job and I have to try it out.
In the state we see it, Toxicons are not a reward in the slightest. They do not make up for the lost healing GCD like a WHM Lily does (to a degree), as it is, it is nothing more than a double weaving window, which you really dont have much need for. My hope is that it has a 50% buff to potency so you are at least given back some of the lost potential damage from using a GCD. Not that im ever going to use a Toxicon cuz GCDs are for scrubs! (and early savage before BiS xD)
The TL;DR is that Sage has slightly weaker, but more versatile tools.
SCH also has a party DPS buff and will get a speed buff which is going to be pretty potent in some comps I think
Energy drain sucks. Its been nerfed to kingdom come. Lol. It doesnt work like it did before. Why would you waste a resource on self healing. Worthless skill. Delete it from your cast bar. You can thank me later. That 20% aertherflow is 2k mp. Thats same as prenerf energy drain. Energy drain is useless now.
0:05
AcTUaLLY, I clicked on this video because you have a nice voice.
Oh, that's what the fairy gauge does. Definitely haven't been playing scholar for a year without knowing that. Nope. >.>
I had a tank give me a tip when i was healing "do some dps" which i was. Coming from a tank that wouldn't use his buffs on triple mob pulls and i was forced to heal him like crazy.
I'm a new healer and FACTS!!!!!
I miss shield Astro so much. I loved it, I mained it T^T
Sage is great but one specific instance i consistently fail in is the big pull right before the first boss of Holminster Switch. I regularly wipe the group there. There have definitely been occasions where the tank has failed to use their invuln, but i feel like i should be able to handle it regardless of that. I start with physys and kerachole and haima, and then zoe taurochole, then go back to kerachole after that but even then i still can not keep up with that much damage. I have done a lot of searching and even though that pull is notorious for being extremely difficult i have not found any forums about it or guides on youtube talking about it. Surely i can't be the only sage that struggles with this.
I never choose lol played both and loving them. since SCH still my main since forever, sage pretty much the same so it's pretty easy to use. Thx for the video thou, I re-read the skills for both just in case I missed them~
As with every expansion, I will play all healers (and tanks, and dps) in Endwalker. But I will do the MSQ as Sage from day one, so I arranged for a tank gimp to avoid the long queues.
Nicely formatted video. I wish you went over the offensive abilities as well though, but I imagine they will be pretty straightward
imo scholar and sage are basically foils. while they have a lot of similar tools, scholar's generally require casting like 1-2 gcds earlier, either because they're barriers, fairy ogcds, or setup tools which affect other heals (or in seraph's case, all of the above). meanwhile, sage gets insta-cast barrier gcds (after 1s to toggle them on) which then grant resources to deal damage, not unlike blood lily, and generally has more reactive tools
seeing it broken down like this, it definitely feels like theyre on equal footing. however, until they fix pet ai so that the fairy will actually do the skill you tell her to on command instead of like 3 seconds later, i think sage is gonna be the preferred shield healer for harder content when timing seriously matters lol
From a lot of the gameplay footage that's come out since the media tour, it does look like the pet AI for SCH has been addressed and your pet commands come out much faster. We'll have to wait and see how it shakes out in-game with server latency etc., but overall the fairy does look to be significantly more responsive with 6.0
@@donnervogel1229 it shouldn't be more responsive, it should be cast immediately since you can die in a blink of a second in savage and ultimate fights
I hate it when I cant cast any fairy ability if my seraph has 3 second because she will ate the ability, so it goes in cooldown but no buffs another thing is if you want to use fairy ability and eat her right away to get aethers you need to wait 3 seconds if not the ability will go in cooldown without any buffs, compared to how savage and ultimate mechanics works. Big respect for SCH mains out there.
Momo with the based healer content as always 👍
I main WHM and i will always do.
But...for Endwalker - we have a NEW Healer and a NEW Dps...
...so probably it will be more better to be a tank this addon-
to give all the Bunny-Boi Sages and Reapers a little bit of Roulette-Time-Realease XD
On the other Hand, Pal gets reworked a lot it seems...so.....maybe i will be lucky to play WHM anyways ^^
as a healer main I'll lv all of them but sage may be my main healer. I played sch as my main all the way until 5.2 or so. then I swapped to ast and been with it since. but I see sage and dam it looks so fun and fits my style like ast
Thanks mrhappy1227 🎉👏
Scholar sounds so bad compared to Sage 😬
Hanging up SCH after 8 years of playing it in high end for something less clunky in that of Sage
How'd it turn out?
@@Adeon55 finished Dragonsong’s Reprise ultimate on Sage few months back. Love healing on this job! Low key Kerachole carries so much value that SCH has to make up for in less streamlined ways when players have to spread around a lot. Can roll the skill into pretty much every major attack in that fight with some slick timings.
Icy: which healer you gonna go for in endwalker?
me: the pewpew one
Sage first duty is to put on barriers. second is to heal, and third is to do damage if the first two are taken care of.
I get that SCH has buffs that SGE doesn't have and all but there's something about SGE's mobility that I find really satisfying
I have been waiting for a Healer like Sage and coming from a balanced healer but, I prefer Scholar. I am really excited to move into a SGE. Barrier healing is very fun and it still feels like you have to think whaat to use and when and that’s my kind of healing. Plus, we can technically fly lol Icarus will be my saving grace. Real Players and I say this jokingly know how to get to safe zones quickly. I can’t wait to dash to enemies or my party mates for safety and shield them to keep them safe. Hope you all enjoy Endwalker. Play for the fun and let’s be prepared for all out war 👏🌸
From what I am seeing as A sage. I precast Kera, Then E Diag the Tank and E Dosis the Boss, Reason for the E Diag first is to get the first toxicon up immediately, I literally Keep to my instant casts if I can, I never use Diagnosis or Prognosis unless absolutely last choice... E Diag for the Tank then Addersgall heal as needed Provided Kera is Up First
Multiple peeps need healing E Prog Pepsis
MultiStack Markers Panhaima Then E Prog as much as possible
Basically my rotation is as Follows:
Kera (On Cooldown Always)
Multi Stack Marker Panhaima
Stack Marker E. Prog E. Prog Pepsis (First is to take the hit The 2nd to Restore HP)
Party Hp
If i do not like sage, I have scholar at level 80.
That being said, I think I will give sage a good shot as reapplying barriers and a mobile sacred soil sounds like fun.
Not going to lie sage kinda sucks. Unless you're playing a good pre made group, sage will have a rough time covering for people's mistakes, sustaining through low dps, or covering for tanks who don't use cooldowns effectively.
to me, Sage could become "perfect" if Pepsis gave Addersting when consuming the barrier and Rizomata also gave a stack of Addersting.
You are already going to have more addersgall then you can spend because of not having a damage spender.
@@justindman00 oh fuck! thanks for pointing it out! I wrote the wrong name... I was thinking of addersting, so sage had more on demand options to have insta spells for movement...
I prefer coke tbh
Momo, this is great!
The main difference between Scholar and Sage is that Sage has a class mechanic and Scholar hasn't had one since they removed pets from the game.
Definitely doing sage. Simply for the look and mobility aspects.
I'd like to point out that SCH has bigger potencies for their OGCD's than SGE as of actual patch 6.0 (Aside from Physis, it's just better for whatever reason)
Scholar has 9 charges of single target heal for high mobility. Fairy is kardia but passive. Almost all dps spells are cast on the fly including aoe. Seraph mode is instant succor. The thing that sage dan do well is use instant gcds for quick patch heals and tank buster saving Adlo shield. But in terms of raw heals both Scholar and Sage are equal in potency. Sage just has more mobility when there are raid wides becos of Eukrasia.
As a long time WHM/SCH dual main that had flirted with just giving up/dropping the SCH half, looking at this makes me think in a lot of ways Sage is simply "a better SCH".
Level 4: SCH gets free heals, but remember that pet potencies are less than advertised. In the current game, pet potencies have a ~0.63 multiplier, meaning something that says 200 potency (e.g. Embrace) actually only has 126 potency, which is a pretty huge gulf. While testing seems to indicate this is higher in Endwalker - somewhere in the 75% range - that still makes Embrace a 135 potency heal. It IS free, and smart targeted, that is true.
Level 20: Whispering Dawn again suffers from pet potency, meaning that's going to be an ~60 potency HoT vs a 100 potency one on the same CD with the same range. SCH can in theory use theirs remotely, but this requires micromanaging and pre-positioning of Eos as she cannot cast and move at the same time nor instantly teleport, nor does the spell have you designate a ground location. In most cases, Phsys will be better in this way. ALMOST any time that you would need remote healing in a high end encounter, your raid should have a second healer handling that "light party" or similar mechanic. And when the parties actually ARE spread (e.g. Eden 8 "add" phase), you can't send your Faerie over to the other side anyway. Not to mention, like all Farie abilities, it requires your Faerie to be out, meaning if you just got Raised, you cannot use it. I'm not saying there's NEVER a time where remote use won't be beneficial...but it's probably somewhat niche and won't be a detriment to the Sage here.
Level 35: Sage pretty much wins here. Fey Union is again subject to weaker pet potency, making it about a 250 potency HoT that robs you of Embrace for the duration AND breaks if you order your Faerie to use any other ability. You also do not get to until a much higher level (as far as running synced content is concerned), though that will generally not be as big of an issue. SCH gets to specifically target the heal just as Sage does in this case, and SCH has nothing else to spend Faerie Gauge on anymore, so there's that, I suppose? Besides, we'll talk about Fey Union later, not here. So for all intents and purposes, Sage wins here.
Level 40: This is the first place where SCH actually wins...sorta. It reduces magic damage taken by 5% (most raidwides are magic) and note that word - REDUCES - I'll get to this in the next section. It also increases healing potency of all players affected by 10%. In ShB, this only affects SPELLS, though, not ABILITIES, so other than your co-healer and a PLD tank's Clemency, it doesn't affect much else, and most players attempt not to use GCDs more than necessary. This just says potency, so maybe they finally fixed that to apply to oGCDs as well, though? Icarus, on the other hand, is a movement tool and can help cheese mechanics. So in some cases it could be better, and certainly is more helpful to the Sage player if they're out of position. HOWEVER, SCH will also be getting Expedience, which will probably be more powerful than people are giving it credit for.
Level 45: Seem absolutely identical to me. The Sage one appears better because of the 5% MP refresh, but I think this is simply because SCH's MP regen is baked into using the Aetherflow ability itself, so this is probably normalized to be comparable.
Level 50: Okay.....this is gonna take a minute...
Kerachole seems to be an outright BETTER Sacred Soil. While some might quibble round the snapshot and that it's centered on the Sage, it has a larger radius identical to most AOE heals centered on the caster already, so it'll generally catch any party member that isn't a BLM or Bard hanging out in our neighboring Andromeda galaxy sniping at the boss. But more importantly, NOTE THE TOOLTIP WORDINGS:
Sacred Soil sets damage taken to 0.9x of what it would otherwise be. This is overwritten by a better defense (e.g. PLD's Passage of Arms, which sets it to 0.85x), BUT DOES NOT STACK. That's how these "will only suffer X%" abilities work.
Kerachole, on the other hand, is better: It REDUCES DAMAGE BY 10%. Why that's significant is that damage REDUCTIONS can stack mutiplicatively. Damage SET percentages cannot - the best one dominates and the lesser effect is ignored.
Stacking Kerachole with Passage of Arms would result in the party members taking "0.85 x (1 - 0.1) = 76.5%" of the base damage of the incoming attack. Stacking Sacred Soil with Passage of Arms results in "MIN OF {0.85, 0.90} = 85%" of the base damage of the incoming attack. Moreover, because it DOES snapshot, it means party members do not have to adjust to get inside of it and, once it is applied, can spread out for future mechanics while Soil requires players to move into it and stay within it to benefit from the effects.
I didn't realize HOW MUCH BETTER Kerachole is.
Now, one can argue that SCH DOES get a direct 5% damage reduction - to magic damage - from Fey Illumination, but this just goes back to the problem with CURRENT SCH which is having to press twice as many buttons to obtain a comparable effect. And note that's a 5%, not 10%, reduction.
Level 52: Like level 45, these are identical.
Level 56: This one is CLOSER to a draw, but Sage wins. Deployment tactics would be a great ability...if it had a 30 or 60 sec CD and SCH had AT LEAST ONE oGCD shield they could deploy OR could still deploy the full Critlo shield. Since Galvanize and Catalyze were split, and Deployment Tactics DOES NOT SPREAD Catalyze, this weakens it considerably. While still a powerful ability, when comparing abilities, you're looking at the alternative, not "this vs not having anything". Zoe can make smaller, but still large, shields, either single target, multiple targets (not quite but coming close to non-crit Deployed Adlos), very beefy single target shields, or can simply make really big straight/pure heals if that is what the situation requires (e.g. saving a DRK that is under the effect of Living Dead). This versatility likely more than makes up for the shortcomings. And while Deployed CRITlo shields are fantastic, standard Adlo shields are not as wonderful, and it sounds like Sage can mimic this effect with their AOE shield anyway. Basically, the Sage is getting a free crit here (double heal), and can spread that to the party at the cost of one CD and their AOE GCD, while SCH has to use Recitation THEN Adlo THEN Deployment Tactics to get the same outcome, AND it's limited to just that. They have to use Emergency Tactics with Succor or Recitation with Adlo to get the other effects, which again goes to more buttons to do the same thing. Though I WILL NOTE here that SCH can, in theory, do ALL OF THESE THINGS in the same CD window while Zoe can only do one at a time. E.g. If you used Zoe to get a strong party shield, the SCH could have used regular Adlo + Deploy and still has Recitation and Emergency Tactics sitting in reserve. And ET, in particular, has a wonderfully short CD these days, even if most SCH players seem to be terrified of the button. Of course, that would be if Sages ONLY had Zoe. As we're about to see...that isn't the case, and they have their own tools in reserve...
Level 58: This one confuses me. Pepsis seems, offhand, like it's more valuable. You can apply shields, let them take a hit, and if there's even 1 HP left, you can burn that into a heal. And if there's NOT, you could recast the shield and follow it immediately with Pepsis to get this same effect. On the contrary, SCH's is set and governed by the potency of their heals. Early on, this will probably make Pepsis stronger - those are some beefy healing potencies, and even work on mostly spent shields! - BUUUUT, I will note that this IS a case where SCH will get better with more gear, namely Mind, Crit, and Det as the expansion progresses, making their overall healing potencies higher (and crit chance of higher still) of shield to turn into heal. But at the start of the expansion/tier, Pepsis will probably be stronger. We'd have to compare them with level 90 base stats to determine the difference, though. Pepsis seems - like Zoe - to be more versatile here. And this also (as noted above) partly negates that Zoe is but one CD.
Level 60: Sage gets a once per 3 minute Plenery Indulgence that DOES NOT require another AOE heal to be cast in order to activate AND it has, baked in, the healing boosting of Temperance on all targets. On the other hand, for SCH you get...Dissipation, one of the most hated and reviled abilities in the game. In the present game, it ONLY buffs Physic, Adloquium, and Succor - abilities that players, again, attempt to use as little as possible - while oddly granting Aetherflow stacks so the SCH could in theory use their oGCD heals...which aren't buffed. This comes at the cost of (a) 30 seconds worth of Embraces, which adds up to a total of around 1,350 potency of smart targeted healing over the duration. It ALSO prevents you from using any Faerie Abilities, meaning if any come off CD, you are not able to access them (in theory "wasting" them) and you simply lose access to some of your mitigation and about 1/3rd of your healing kit for those 30 seconds. You get, in exchange, 3 Aetherflow - but no MP refresh. It should be noted if that's 20% to healing potency that includes oGCDs, that could make it worthwhile, but this would still have to be countered by the reduction. The Sage Physis 2, on the other hand, requires no additional input and all benefits of its effect are front loaded with no penalty. It doesn't, for example, remove the effect of Cardia for the duration. So on the whole, I'm thinking Sage wins this round. I'm not saying there are NO uses for Dissipation, but it's one of those rare abilities that people on forums hate AND people in-game dislike and can't figure out how to use; normally an ability hated by one is loved by the other, but not in the case of Dissipation, which indicates it's just a bad ability all around that should be removed or refined.
Level 62: SCH's get a 800 potency heal that will either delay itself for use when the target gets under 50% or, if the target is ALREADY under 50%, it's just a straight 800 potency heal as it will activate immediately. It also isn't "wasted" (unless the target is at 100% health when it expires) since it gives the heal when it expires (it did not always do this...). The downside is that if the target is 1 hit KO'd, the heal will not save them. Conversely, Tarochole is a Lustrate, 600 potency heal just like the Level 45 abilities, but it grants a damage reduction. Many people don't realize that damage reduction is, in some ways, "a better shield" as it is the same effect as a 10% shield vs all incoming damage for the duration. This is effectively a targeted Rampart (Tank mitigation CD) ever 45 seconds...which I feel is VERY LIKELY going to be more powerful than Excog unless you use it during untargetable phases or something for...some reason.
Level 70: Haima successively applies 150 potency shields for a total of 750 potency of shielding...but the wording and mechanic indicates that this isn't all at once, meaning if a person took two successive hits of 500 potency damage each, they would end with 700 potency of damage coming out of their health pool, the first two shields gone, and a 150 shield in place. But further, it has an insurance policy that would then convert the 3 remaining shields into a flat 450 potency heal at the end, meaning this would result in the target taking a grand total of 250 potency of damage once everything has resolved. Granted, there are many ways this can play out to be good or bad. SCH, on the other hand, gets Fey Union, which is a ~250 potency heal every 3 seconds for 10 total ticks, so also can be thought of as a 30 second duration of healing IF you've already spent 10 stacks of Aetherflow. But, this is balanced by the loss of 30 seconds worth of Embrace and access to your Faerie abilities, as using any one will break Fey Union (abilities have priority) and you will have to reapply it after the fact. I'm not sure which is better, and this will take a LOT of math and be one of those "it actually depends on the fight/scenario" cases. This is one of those cases where Sage/Haima LOOKS absolutely better, and SCH's equivalent looks worse with a lot of drawbacks...but I'm not actually sure that's correct in this case...or, to be more accurate, I could see SOME cases where Haima is better (several successive but small hits) and some where Fey Union is accurate (a fight that is largely oGCD healed, generating Faerie Gauge, but then has a large single target healing requirement ~3 and a half minutes into the fight...)
Level 74: This is the ONE place so far I'm comfortable saying SCH wins hands down. Recitation is just an awesome ability and can be applied to a lot of things. It CAN'T (I don't think) be used on Sacred Soil, but why would you use it for that? This is what Zoe should be - a case where Sage gains flexibility but with significantly reduced potency. While Deploy Adlo can be more powerful, It's not MUCH more powerful without a Critlo, and there's no guarantee of a Critlo whereas Zoe gives a guarantee of double potency. On the other hand, Recitation is the inverse, where it's more powerful but a bit more limited in your options (though I guess you could say use with Adlo/Succor makes up for not using it for Energy Drain, Sacred Soil, or...Lustrate?), but Rizomata has versatility instead. Rizomata is what Dissipation should be. It's a weaker Dissipation but carries exactly ZERO of its negatives. But Recitatin is just...better.
Level 76: Fey Blessing vs Holos - this depends on the pet scaling. If pet scaling is LESS THAN 93.75% (300/320 = 0.9375), then Holos is more powerful. If pet potency is greater than 93.75% (again, in the currently live game, it's ~63% and estimates for EW are around 75%...), the Holos is more powerful. In theory, Fey Blessing can be used at range, but again, that's of questionable utility in most cases. But on the bright side, it's no longer tied to Faerie Gauge, I guess...? /shrug
Level 80: This one is going to be REALLY weird, like Level 70. Panhaima does the same 5 stack shields with the same potencies, even, as Haima, and can be thought of roughly as a "Deployment Tactics Haima". On the other hand, Seraph has a number of quirks that mix this up. Pet AI and "summoning sickness" (READ: lag) aside, While Seraph is out the SCH may make use of Consolation twice, which grants a 250 x pet scaling barrier to all party members twice. In practice, this will be something like a 175-190 potency AOE shielding twice while Panhaima is 150 five times. You also are likely to waste the second Consolation with a pointless override on at least a few party members before Seraph leaves - but you have to do this about 3 seconds early or risk losing it due to ghosting. Panhaima - once again - does all this itself at the touch of a button, making the Sage player's life far easier. Seraph, though, also casts roughly 150 potency heal + 150 potency shields in place of Eos' Embrace. She only does this about 7 times (21 sec out of her 22 sec on the field), though. So assuming an 8 person party, Panhaima grants 8 players x 5 shields x 150 potency for a total of 6,000 potency of shielding with any leftover turning into heals vs Seraph doing ~ 150 x 7 potency of direct healing + 150 x 8 x 2 (Consolation used twice on all party members) of direct healing from Consolation, with that much again in shielding, for a total of around 3,450 healing and 3,450 shielding for a total of 6,900 split half in healing and half in shielding. (Note that I'm very likely overestimating Seraphic Veil here...)
Meaning if ALL the healing and ALL the shielding is used, Seraph is more overall potent by 900 total potency split half and half between healing and shielding. But note again that Panhaima will convert any unused shielding into healing. ALTHOUGH, it may depend on how I'm reading the tooltip. Is it that you get 5 shields, or you get ONE shield and then FIVE MORE for a total of 6? If so, we would need to add (150 x 8) more potency to Sage here, making Sage's total 7,200; a total of 300 higher than SCH's total if ALL healing and shielding is used efficiently. And unlike Sage, any unused shielding at the end is converted to healing. Though it should be noted that the second Consolation can be used up to ~19 seconds after the first, making the total potential duration 49 seconds vs Sage's 30...but Sage doesn't run the risk of unused shields as they will be converted in to healing. Though both of these abilities are likely to end up with some overhealing and some unused shield sin the end, so looking only at the total raw potency isn't the true answer of their worth and how they stack against each other - DO keep that in mind.
So the overall NET potency of the two abilities is arguably going to be fairly similar, with Seraph's smart targeting being more useful in situations where one player is taking consistent damage greater than the shield - e.g. a tank eating several big attacks means Seraph (when she isn't derpy) giving a total of 7 + 2 Consolation for 9 shields to that person while not overshielding/healing people that aren't taking damage like Panhaima does. But this requires some micromanagement on the part of the SCH with Consolation AND depends on Seraph's AI not being derpy. Panhaima does this all itself at the press of a single button, and likely provides slightly more overall potency shielding, but at the risk of it not being as flexible as Seraph's ability to spot heal/shield that single target taking more damage than the others...
So like Level 70, I believe this is another case of "depends on the fight/mechanics being dealt with" once again, where I could see either one being better than the other DEPENDING on the circumstance/situation.
Level 86: Protraction vs Krasis. Protraction grants a 10% larger health pull and makes it 10% easier to heal the person, Krasis just makes it 20% easier to heal the person. If you have a mechanic that would kill a player EVEN AT MAXIMUM HEALTH, Protraction is better. As no such mechanics exist in the game - and if they did they would make SCH mandatory, meaning they won't - this makes Krasis flat out better in basically any case. This is similar to a WAR personal cooldown (Thrill of Battle, I believe), which is useful for a tank but not really much else, and not always that useful for a tank as it's less a mitigation ability and more an "oh crap" button...and SCH already has other buttons to deal with "oh crap" situations. Krasis being a LARGER no frills heal increase with the same duration and CD makes it just...better.
Protraction WOULD/COULD be the better ability if FFXIV made content that required it. But again, any content REQUIRING it would make SCH required and leave Sage out in the cold, and I can't see FFXIV doing that.
Level 90: Expedience is a party Sprint tacked onto a Kerachole damage resistance - that Sage got 40 levels earlier without the 2 minute CD for the cost of one oGCD resource. Or conversely, Temperance that WHM got 10 levels earlier. In that sense, it's underwhelming. But the Spring will likely be very useful in progression raiding or to make up for mistakes (with damage reduction just being a side benefit) and in farm groups, used to increase DPS uptime. Pneuma, on the other hand, is an Afflatus Misery (and we all know how fun that button is to hit - a LOT of fun) that ALSO heals the party AND grants that same 10% damage reduction AND grants an additional heal to the Kardia target.
So they both have the same duration of the 10% damage reduction, both have the same CD. The Sage version costs MP to cast and has a cast time, but generates 400 x 8 + 170 (on Kardia target) healing and 330 potency of damage to a single target + 165 potency to any other targets in a line (note the "first" is probably the first in the line, regardless of which the boss or high value target is). Conversely, the SCH one grants...AOE Sprint.
Sage's is better in raw states, but SCH's here is the "intangibles", which will be very hard to quantify.
.
Overall it looks like Sage is getting the better end of the deal and SCH the short end of the stick. The only thing I see here where SCH absolutely and without question or regard to situation does better is Recitation.
Everywhere else, either Sage wins or it's a "draw".
That's...disappointing...
NOTE:
This is NOT ME SAYING to write off SCH.
SCH still has some tricks up its sleeve, and Reciation, Deployment, and Seraph offer some ridiculous mitigation that even Sage's better (on paper) mitigation won't be able to match in "burst potency" - if we can use the term "burst" for shields... - but this relies on how situationally useful Seraph is, how situationally useful WITHOUT BEING OVERPOWERD/MANDATORY AND GETTING NERFED Expedience is, and if that burst shielding will be useful outside of prog or Ultimates.
It's honestly hard to say.
I don't think SCH will be useless, and the high end theorycrafters are going to have a field day with it and likely declare it is meta for all the meta chasers (and to the chagrin of all the brand new healers with their level 90 Sages), so there's that.
TLDW: Scholars are proactive whilst Sages are reactive.
I was trying to figure out where I heard this name and then I remembered that Mr Happy brought it up!
Im gonna main both 🧚
It’s says something when I see Icey Veins FFXIV and my immediate reaction is subscribe, notify…..now what was the video about?
I've felt like since they removed Scholars ability to directly control who your fairy heals through macros that Sage has sort of adopted that. Ever since SE did that I've missed it, so I'm looking forward to that from Sage
Do a WAR vs PLD video with the same type of analysis.
SCH best healer handsdown!
Sage all day, it mostly everything I wanted fixed with SCH put into a cooler job lol
to answer your question, WHM
Scholar still simply because i like pet classes and healers
I feel Sage is a fair bit better just in terms of MP conservation alone. Using Addersgall for healing restores their MP, while Scholar can only use Energy Drain to restore MP with Aetherflow stacks, eating into your oGCD healing. And using Aetherflow itself does not restore enough MP to mitigate the MP bleed of the job, even with Lucid Dreaming applied. No amount of large shields will make up for the hemorrhaging of MP Scholar suffers when just using your offensive spells bleed you dry.
currently for EW they took away the MP restore on energy drain and aetherflow now restores 20%
Honestly, Sage still really seems like it makes Scholar irrelevant. I'm still going Scholar for ARR and Heavensward on my M Au Ra, maybe a bit of Stormblood as well, but then I'm going Ninja likely for the majority, if not all of Stormblood and all of Shadowbringers and Sage for Endwalker. Scholar probably won't be coming back at all for me past Shadowbringers
And that assumes I don't change my mind entirely. Being a healer seems scary tbh, I mainly just hit stuff with pointy objects
SCH is all about reacting. Their heal potency can never match WHM or AST. They cant regen as a spammable skill like WHM or massively heal with huge potency heals. Both the other healers would beat out SCH in burst healing during massive roomwide AOEs. However thats why in raids you have cohealers. Use SCH mitigation ogcds and Adloquim as your proactive "heal". If you play reactively like a WHM or even AST then it wont work as well. AST can play reactively as well. But their massive heals allow them to do heals proactively or reactively becos of shields, regens and massive kits of healing potency. Something the SCH lacks. However now SCH has potency buff in EW so it should help SCH and buff their overall effectiveness as a healer. Thus relieving their reactive healing needs. Now you can be relaxed and be more reactive and just let your shields save the day. The oh shyt button for reactive healings are still lacking. The kit still works against itself. But the shields are massive.
@@zlonewolf ...
You know, now I just feel intimidated
@Vivi how so? Healing sucks. But its much needed. When people die, let them die. For big aoes look at succor for 200 potency heal and 115% shield. If you see a raid wide cast, shield up. Even if youre late, succor can help alittle. SCH has worst aoe heals. But you get ogcd one every 30 seconds. Forgot name. In 8 man raid you got fairy regen, succor and the ogcd aoe heal. Adlo on tank. Use the 15 sec spell to turn next adlo or succor shield into pure heals. That spell allow adlo and succor to heal much more at expense of shielding. You can even shield then convert next heal for big pulls. SCH is very versatile. I would start with training dummy or weaker mobs. Remember to spam aoe heals if at least 2 or more team need heal at 60% health. It cost twice as much to use aoe heal unless its the ogcd aoe heal which is free. Most healers start with ogcd heals in savage contents. I feel more comfortable saving it as oh shyt heals or when raid wide is coming and i dont feel comfortable. Ogcds are instant heals when you need them. Its your "phone a friend" life line for who wants to be a millionaire.
Sage, can Scholar shoot laser beams? No, I didn't think so.
Sch plays much more like a mix of barrier and pure. A middle ground.
Sage has poor heals and not many methods to fix that.
Sch has many methods to give emergency healing when needed.
Waiting for WHM and AST comparison :)
Expedient might be a meme. But i'm a sucker for speed buffs. 😭😭
Expedient is going to be an important raid tool.
@@sonoskay for the mitigation maybe, the speed buff itself is likely to be more of a nuisance than helpful honestly. You likely won't have someone in an extreme or savage raid use expedient at the wrong time and wipe the party but it's s still a definite possibility. I'm more worried about pugs wiping parties by using it in a forced march mechanic by accident / trolling, or just in general it throwing people off because there's no call out for it happening and suddenly people are moving way faster.
i like your video, but is too soon for my brain to get all this info, i will check it out a few days before expantion XD
"The calamity is encroaching, I must defeat Rahrydeif or whatever his name was"
"Ooh, a new job rock"
I don't really think Expedient is a good capstone ability. It just doesn't feel bombastic enough to wait from 80 to 90 for.
When you think about how much of the entire game, especially the higher end content, is largely based around player movement, Expedient begins to look incredibly powerful. And it is, that skill alone could be strat-defining depending on how savage content is designed going forward. Sure it's not particularly flashy, but I genuinely believe it's one of the most powerful defensive tools a healer's been given so far
@@halapenopepper There is a good chance it will be the single most useful ability in the game. Paired with chain stratagem, SCH will be the most powerful healer in the game. The devs need to really make some QoL changed to the job tho. Allow fey union to be used with seraph at least
@@scarletnoct5807 If it ever becomes mandatory, the Devs will nerf it, though.
@@SubduedRadical I mean, it won't ever become mandatory, it'll be optimal, but SCH is still the best healer in the game
@@scarletnoct5807 That's my point, though - if it becomes "too" optimal, it will be nerfed. FFXIV isn't a game like Everquest or WoW where having one healer that is ridiculously optimal is allowed for long periods of time.
That's the problem with "intangibles" type abilities - they can't be quantified on paper, leading to a potential of them being weak, but also a potential for them being much too powerful at the same time.
SCH is currently the best healer in the game, I personally believe. It's like wringing water from a stone to get there, but it's the most powerful. This, I think, will remain true.
AST/SCH will still be optimal/meta, though WHM/SGE will be easier to play and probably more useful for early progression, and WHM will still PROBABLY(?) be the go-to for late farm solo healer runs. PROBABLY. There might be some competition there, though, since AST has a lot of powerful and efficient heals now as well as its buffing potential.
Would you be willing to go over how Barrier and Regen healers will be assigned in duties, instances and PvP?
Art of War spam
Sage just looks like a better designed Scholar. 90% of their kit is identical, but Sage just seems to have less bloat in it. They even have an Aetherflow that just goes automatically. They have all that intuitive stuff, but the devs INSIST there was nothing they could do to make Scholar better... lmao
So what your saying is sage is just scholar but better
Is... Is it the laserbeams? It's the laserbeams, right?
"Icarus" would've been substantially more useful if it applied a buff or small potency heal to the target. I could've imagined using it in a small bind but moving quickly to a target seems useless for a ranged healer.
you probably never slidecasted a longer distance
@@Crazy-Jukebox Lol, its kind of hard not to slide cast. Do you think it would be possible to use Icarus after casting a spell just right in order to move while casting? Icarus seems cool in theory. Its also a great way to move across the screen to get out of harms way. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
@@chicodepuertorico1450 attack spells have now shorter cast time. i see 2 options. weave swiftcast into dmg spell icarus.
or simply use it after the many instant casts SGE has.
i dont see icarus beeing a simply on demand movement, but im sure it could be implemented pretty well for reclears, when the time lines are already known
Shoutout to our lord and savior momo.
Isn't that Momo's voice?
edit: just read the description xD
Still think needs a rework like SMN
Um... both.
Why are we choosing?
Both
Sage can take a hit...
Gonna start off with scholar but pick up sage just to have a healer to join friends levelling dungeons with. End goal is all classes at 90 anyway.
Sage takes the cake for me.
Aetherflow actively discourages its use for healing with Energy Drain. Addersgall actively encourages its use due to the MP restore.
Embrace rarely targets the person I want. Kardia will always target the person I want.
Sacred Soil only works when people are standing in it. Kerachole just has to hit initially.
Succor spam sucks. Sage has Prognosis.
It requires 2 cooldowns and 1 GCD to guarantee a Critlo + Deploy. Zoe + Eukrasian Prognosis is good enough and only takes a single cooldown and 1 GCD.
Scholar only has consolation as oGCD shields. Panhaima and Haima will result in significantly more shielding over the course of a fight.
Expedient is a terribly designed skill. Pneuma is better in every way.
I will miss Eos, but I feel like not only will I be contributing more overall healing with the easily accessible Addersgall, but I feel like my healing experience will be overall better. As I've progged through E12S, there have been many times where I've wished to have specific tools that the Sage has. I have yet to come across something I will miss as a Scholar.
The sages abilities mostly are straight up better, and have more synergy. Scholar is still pretty bad gameplay wise, even if it has its strengths
astro
Jfc they took everything unique and cool about scholars and gave it to sage and then also gave it better mp management and no fairy lag. Unless they remove fairy lag for SCH similar to SMN then sage all day
Your assessments are misleading. While they are both "similar" on paper, having played both I can attest that sage requires you to be more active (i.e., use skills more actively) to be as effective as scholars. On the other hand, sage does have more potential potency and utility.
Offtop, but Your aura is very handsome xD
Isn't fairy healing potency much weaker than your own healing potency? If so won't that effect to all fairy skills?
Fairy heal is now 130 potency heals. Not great as white mage regen but work similar. At least its mana free. Aertherpact is 300 potency heal. Thats almost same as physicks heals.
My party complains when I play Scholar and I let their hp drop low due to my dps lifestyle
When I play sage I have an excuse that it’s part of my healing kit.
Seems like an easy choice to meeee
Since when icy veins now makes guides for ff?
instant cast heals and shields yep now its EXTRA confirmed sage main for life sorry scholar cast times are so 2 calamity's ago
Fairy heals for 130 potency is instant. No instant shield. But Sch gets 20% or 2k mana every minute. 9 stacks of resources vs 20 sec per and limit to 3. Sch get combat sprint! No other job can do this! I agree instant shielding is nice. But can Sage instant dps? They can aoe dps. But Sch can aoe also instantly. Seraphim shielding is instant shielding also.
Square enix fucking hate sch just go sge and do everything better.
I feel like this video is ignorant of the drastic change sage brings to healing in FFXIV. Sage does a LOT of offensive with the secondary affect being healing. It's like being a white mage spamming holy but actually healing everytime they do. Plus sage gets a good handful of AIE heals and shields. It's pretty fun, but it doesn't feel anything like any other healer imo. I can see the comparisons, but it really is significantly different.
Theres no comparison. WHM Holy stuns. Sage single target and multiple target does NOT stun. Lol. You dont know how Holy works. Kardia requires constant mp spamming dps for measly heals. You know who can also do heals but not just single target? Fairy and Seraphim. Lol. Dude. Sage sucks. Scholar can do same things Sage can. Sage does have advantage than Scholar on instant shielding and bigger gcd aoe healing though. That makes Sage more mobile when using gcds compared to using succor or Adlo.
With how the SGE heals thru damage, it'll be chosen as the meta healer with WHM as the main healers going into any hardcore raids and trials. As a main SCH healer, I see the stronger barriers for my job, but the issue is the SCH less healing and damage uptimes when compared to the SGE. But from what I'm seeing here, the SCH has a quicker initiation while SGE suffers from the WHM gauge build up. In the case of recovering from being res'd, both are slow, but the SGE wins over the SCH when they can use their long CD heals. Over the course of a long fight, the SGE wins as the best barrier healer with more healing outlets and damage. Even with this video, I'm seeing my main healer job be replaced, thrown to the side and forgotten. But I am an underdog player, I'll stick with my SCH.
Edit: Shit, forgot about AST. I didn’t look into the AST changes, but the meta healers I feel for hardcore endgame would be SGE and AST.
SGE starts any instance with 3 Addersgall. Even if SGE is incapacitated, their gauge will automatically build up again. SCH's Aetherflow is frontloaded, meaning if SCH dies at any point between refreshes, SCH is pretty boned for a while, not to mention it has to resummon the fairy. SGE has at least okay GCDs to fall back on.
I don't think AST will be popular in the upper echelons because the card changes are baaaaaad. Astrodyne is too RNG to be reliable. Only being able to redraw once sucks. Lord/Lady are back to the way they were in StB, which means Lady will be a DPS loss most of the time, and it only gets worse the more targets you have since they're AoE now. And, with no way to dump unwanted seals, getting the required 3 seal Astrodyne will be nearly impossible. Sure, only AST's damage is going to suffer, but those who want to get the most out of AST are going to be upset that they can't really predict how they're going to contribute to a fight.
Also, WHM is probably not going to be used unless they pump out some massive emergency buffs before Savage drops since WHM's MP economy got hit waaaaay too hard.
@@Inhaledcorn Thank you for mentioning WHM's MP. I really don't understand why Thin Air got changed the way it did.
@@robbieking8447 they changed thin air to prevent WHM from face rolling healing mechanics by themselves, or rather if it's a party situation that would have wiped with any other healer, WHM will now fail in that situation as well with these changes.
On the flip side you have more opportunities to cast a spell with no resource cost every 60 secs instead of 12 seconds every 120 secs
But focusing on the thin air changes ignore all the free healing WHM already gets which is silly to the point of being able to ignore Cure 2, Regen and Medica.
I think ast and sch will still be meta for the hardcore groups because of their raid utility. Sge and whm will shine in uncoordinated pfs
"With how the SGE heals thru damage"
People need to stop overglorifying this shit.
It's Sage's equivalent to Embrace.
That's it. It's not some special new powerful megamechanic that will make it the megasuper prog healer. If that were the case, then Sage's 'I can heal when I do damage' would still be inferior to Scholar's 'I can heal when doing /manderville' to give an idea how rediculous that concept is in terms of raid comp.
"In the case of recovering from being res'd, both are slow"
That's your co-healer's strength, and that's when you leverage their kit. WHM's Glares won't be prioritized over Dosis.