Pushing the Limits on an Early FORD AXLE | Axle Dropping JIG
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- čas přidán 17. 09. 2023
- On this episode we go through the issues from our first trial. Fix them and alter the parts to work in sync while dropping axles. We drop a Model A axle three inches over stock and dial in the chamber and caster, ready for a future Hotrod!
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This brings back a few memories , I used to work in a blacksmith here in Brisbane shop in the 80s and 90s and they did a lot of dropped axles before they could be bought over the counter , we did almost all the heating in the forge then pushed them in the press cooling the king pin end and the spring eyelet with water while keeping the heat in it with a large rosebud using LPG , my boss would set the camber with a jig later , still took a while to do but they got them done .
Maybe drop the jig base down and use an extension or stock between the ram and spring mount will keep the ram away from the heat
Yeah we did that, worked a treat.
I typed this in right before I saw this! 😂🤣 I’ll modify my suggestion. 🤙🤙
The trial and error is what hot rodding is all about! And your positive spirit through the process is infectious and inspiring. Great stuff and congrats on a successful drop! Go Bennetts Customs, keep moving forward! Can't wait to see where you're going next!
That you Murdoc! Always great to read your motivating comments! Means a lot
Outfrigginstanding! That setup as it gets dialed in is game changing.
Thanks Kirk! Will be great to watch it evolve
@bennettscustomsco never miss you or Karl over at Make it Custom. 20's an 30's are my thing. Just can't afford it. Figure I watch you fellas maybe I'll build one one day.
I had this same "king pin removing" issue when i built my jig to drop my 32 heavy axle. First side i used a stock 1941 (i think) king pin, and it bent. Second side, i machined a piece of steel with the same kind of fixture to pull it off. And had the same bending and stucking situation. It's an eternal trial and error thing, but your jig is really cool! Cheers from Brazil!
Yeah it definitely took a few tries to get it right but happy it not slides out with ease
I’m excited for you. I can’t wait to see what you’re doing next . Thanks
Some good ideas coming Ron!
As a woodworker who does an extra half a dozen of the same project at a time for gifts, I spend a great deal of time making jigs that pretty much guarantee good repetitive results. Fun to see you develop that jig and pay exacting attention to the many details that insure better results…every time. I also commend your spirit of determination. When you were suspending yourself from that pry bar it reminded me of the old hanging-cat poster titled “Hang In There”. Good stuff as usual.
Hahaha thanks Gary!
One advantage of Lee Grants jig is being upside down the king pin can be drove out instead of pulling it. Just a thought. Good video.
Definitely, luckily it’s easier to get out now
I have made tube straight axles for race scars. You need to turn the axle 90 degrees on the vise, put a couple long tubes like electrical conduit in the king pin bosses, stand back 15 feet and see if they are both level to each other. if not you will have different caster angles.
What an awesome result, you gotta be stoked with that! I'm sure you'll keep getting it all the kinks ironed out with the more you do, but what a start, well done.
GREAT engineering! Love how those axles turned out. 😎👍
Thanks Trash! Much appreciated
You should make a couple large dove tail slides. With grease holding paths etched in it. To mount both ends to with a series of 1" bolts and pins to latch the hot side in place, so the center of the axel can go down evenly and level. When thf desired drop is reached . Latch the opposite side, release pressure then reapply quickly while it's still hot. Then allow to cool. And make super hard tempered king pins just for this process. With a threaded area to draw them out, look like a long eye bolt, with a king pinon the end of it. And make a oversized flange nut to drain it out with ground hardened washers with grease on them. Attach a long flat bar to the eye part, to prevent turning use a roughly 1.5" wrench or larger depending on the nut oversize. turn the nut with a fine 1" thread. The attached bar can also be used with a piece of flat bar, as a pivot point. To lever up the king pin. Possibly made from tempered tool steel, then ground to final size and use copper grease ,grind a tiny line down the king pin. To hold grease. In about 6 sides. With the ends mount on dovetail slides, the drop can be set easily.
Hi and good day again. Look up Evil Iron Classics here on CZcams, about a year ago they showed how to drop the axles and his rig looked simple but worked really great and the dropped ends didnt shorten like yours did, seemed easy to build and operate, hope it helps.
Thank you for that! I will look it up! All the best
For a first attempt at axle dropping,you and the team did awesome job!!.
Keep up the great work!.
Thank you Daryl!
Great work mate, the 3” looks the goods 😎Keeping the dream alive.
I’ve still got that timber kit hear
Definitely need to grab it asap!
Great project and video. I enjoy watching your content and work ethic. It will be awesome to have an unlimited supply of drop axles 😃
No kidding! All different sizes!
For your heat problem, just drop your press table down a foot and build a ram extension that welds to your spring press tool. And maybe a small Porta ram to go under the king pin to press it out if it gets stuck again. Or even flip your jig over and somehow drill a hole so you can use your press to press out the king pin rod. Anyways, great video keep them coming
Great stuff! 👏👏
Your bearings aren’t riding flat across them all at once. My guess is the post it’s riding in isn’t perfectly parallel with both sides. Hope this helps.
this is gonna be one bad ass hotrod
Awesome result for a beginner. Fun to watch.
Good stuff Jordan, enjoyed watching it. Keep it up, well done.
Thanks Paul
Hey Jordan, nice job, enjoyed the video, I've been hooked on your channel since the race car episodes , keep em coming...Ralph
Thanks for the support Ralph!
Great job. It's amazing how much the steel will stretch and bend. I like seeing you scare Josh in every video lately.
He doesn’t hahaha
nicely done 👍 , looks like you got it all more less under control now , hopefully the press won't suffer to much from all that heat ... the one that Lee Grants uses, is also a nice design , simple and very user friendly ... 🍺🍺
Now that you have a rig to do repeatable drops you need to work up a jig for easily testing the results without fiddling with the vise and leveling each one.
P.S.
You could always drop the work surface of the press down and use a spacer between work and ram, that would get the ram & resvr. out of the direct line of heat, but then you would be on hands & knees heating the axle.
The second model a axle we dropped I dropped the press down and added a spacer- it certainly helped
Do you think the king pin is stuck because they oxidized with the heat and seized up? My Dad, an airplane mechanic,would use milk of magnesia as anti-seize for igniters in the jet engines. So lit worked like a high temp anti-siege. Awesome channel by the way!! Always love to see a video has dropped!!
Roller bearings would be best to use as they spread the load where ball bearings concentrate the load more into a point.
Thanks a great Tip Tom thank you!
On your heating. Would an induction unit work? Maybe quicker and placed more accurately. Just a thought. Also make sure the pin is an alloy steel. Hey I’ve always wanted see how this was done. Great job.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing, this was great.
Jordan I had a thought about how you get back the overall 1" your narrowing axle, would making a cam at the end where the exploding bearing are on ,did that make sense 🤔 lol.
Now at the hydraulic end would a keyway with a lip only for keeping the other half located when applying pressure on it to stop it from flying out .just a thought thanks for parts looking forward to the next .great work mate keep um coming 👍
The Cam idea is really cool. Rather the shimming it you could just turn the cam to a certain point
I was thinking it a little more, if you use solid rollers but tapper a plate that will stretch the axle in a smoother flow as it comes down. 🤔 that make sense again lol. Same but different 👍
It would probably help also to have a way to clamp the end of the axel to the fixture. Like two 1" x 4" x6" tall plates, with the ends milled to fit partly around the axel end, then bolted at a 45° angle. To squeeze it like a vise when tightened. It should have about 3, roughly 1/2"-5/8" bolts per side. To take some pressure off the king pin. I always thought this was done with a cone shaped pin that only holds the top and bottom of the axle. Like a tail stock dead center on a lathe. Only half the cone in the axel.
hi, you could use 4140 that well not bend lick mild steel it will bend to Ezy in wat you doing love watching your videos.
Gr8 fun to watch, my 2 cents worth, put the pin in from the bottom then use an air hammer to knock it out.
Good work on the drop Jordan, its probably going to be hard to shield the ram from the heat the rosebud generates in close proximity it might be better as someone else has mentioned to drop the jig lower and use a ram extension (and steady to stabilise the extension if needed) once the drop is done set up a fan to dissipate the heat travelling up the extension, anyway food for thought. Cheers Greg
Very Nice work Jordan You might want to check in to that electric heating system they sell I don’t know if you ever seen it
That’s a good call!
Great work 👍👌👌
Cheers Chris
Thanks Chris!!
😂😂 good one, got him back!
I do not have pictures but when I was 10 to 12 years old now 75 I was always a guy down the street. He was dropping axels and he had a pivoting jack on the side of his i beam that had a cantilevered arm on it to drop the axle and away from the heat also self contained dropping jig
That’s so cool!!
Very satisfying for you, I would be too if I did that good first time, well done!
Thanks 👍
Maybe you can cut the kingpin head into a hex and use a socket on an impact to turn it out. Also I think you also need to raise the other end so the bore is in line, that .001 might be letting it get too out of alignment.
We didn’t do a good job of fliming the second axle but with a little heat on the welded end the new king pin only needs a tap with a hammer and she came perfectly
You're probably getting some deformation at your pin and that's why is so hard to get out so try and make a heat shield around that too and that might help
After creating the new pin and a bit of heat it slides out a treat now!
Hi thanks for the video, a friend in Tassy dropped a few axles, he had the same problem with the king pin, so they had one made of a higher grade steel and it didn't bend. This may help you. Thanks Byron
Thank you Byron! Much appreciated
Maybe you should start over and build it like Lee's from LG speed. He doesn't have a problem with getting the axle out when he's done.
It works perfect now. Bit of heat and a light tap and out she comes
An idea on measuring angles on a table. Make bolts that goes through the spring perch holes and on the head of the bolts weld cylinders big enough to lift the whole axle off the table and long enough to keep it stable. Assuming your spring perch holes havent rotated when bending it should give you a good measurement on the angles at the ends.
Very good idea! Thanks Jeremy
Maybe you should look at getting a small forge, to heat the axle. It would be easy enough to get the axle from the forge to the press
If the car gets a 3 or 4 inch drop with the stock wishbone, some more caster is usually required.
You’re right. About 1 degree more
The problem with pin removal is due to using axle ends instead of a spindle.the spindle has less surface area than the axle ends plus the spindle has a little slop in the bushings which does not grab the pin,with your set up the pin is being pulled through 7 1/2 of hole .friction
The pin removal is simple now with a little heat and a few taps. Problem with a spindle idea is those bushing wear and will wear fast after a few axles.
Hard steel like 4130? Maybe
Hydraulics to bend the axle - hydraulics to pull the pin out. A hollow porta-power ram that will pull the pin effortlessly.
It actually comes out just perfect now. A little heat and slides right out!
Make the pints of stainless. Higher melting temp.
What about using an induction heater like those used on frozen bolts/nuts. I don't know if they make one that would fit over the kingpin end, but worth looking into.
Yeah I need to look into that
Странно что ты работая с металлом не знаешь простых правил работы с металлом основанных на законах физики. Металл всегда лучше растягивается чем сжимается... поэтому любые оси не вытягивают, как делали вы в этом видео, а выбивают штифтом с другой стороны! Но это было очень смешно наблюдать за вами!)) Привет вам с берегов Байкала!)
It's strange that you, working with metal, don't know the simple rules of working with it, based on the laws of physics. Metal is always better stretched than compressed... therefore, any axes are not pulled out, as you did in this video, but are knocked out with a pin on the other side! But it was very funny to watch you!)) Greetings from the shores of Lake Baikal!)
Spread out the load on the barring by pressing them inside of a tube
I would try putting anti seize on the king pin it will help to lube the pin and the anti seize will take the heat and still lubricate.
High heat anti-seize. We use it on turbo and exhaust parts.
At the end of the video I mention that I was able to have success pulling the pin out easy with some heat and a few taps. Comes out a charm now!
hardened shaft for king pin. Won't deform under pressure
Definitely.
just need to heat it back up a bit its because it's shrinking when you got it all red. I would suppose it if you didn't heat it up enough while jacking on it that you would bend the bar if the tonnage overcomes it. They come out looking real good. I still think i can buy one cheaper.
Yeah a little heat and two knocks with the hammer it comes out perfectly
try a turbo wrap on the ram
That’s not a bad call!
are you going to be able to use this axle with out some sort of engineering approval/test in wa ? i was told a couple of weeks ago we cant even split a wishbone any more ? not sure if this is right guess i will find out the hard way . also mate when you were checking your camber the vice was moving around it looks like its loose on the bench/pole you got it on . nice job on the axle , i wouldnt hesitate to use it . i think the way lg customs does it is less complicated in a moving parts kind of way
If we decided to do more we will try and get them done and have an engineering app. Yeah vice pin sits level. Loose or tight. His is a great setup and simple!
You need a forge for heating those up.
Bit difficult unfortunately
Use a hydraulic Jack to press to get king pin out.
How do you adjust the Cambor if needed?
Please consider an ejector pin from a plastic injection mold for your king pin, they are nitrile case hardened.
Pin worked a treat in the end
My bad, I missed the 10 mm free load for your cam rolls.
Looks to be a great deal more effort than LG’s design?
Completely different style
Could you adapt a hydraulic bearing puller to help remove the kingpin?
It was mentioned in the shop but it simply needed a bit of heat two the welded axle ends and out it came effortlessly
you may smach it from the bottom with a good persuader tool or air hammer ? 😀
No access unfortunately. However, not shown but the new KP comes out with only a light tap of a hammer with the use of some heat
Just wondering...........would it be worth taking a cutting disc on a grinder and making a helix, maybe 2 or 3, on the pin that goes in the kingpin bushes. That way you can run in some light oil and hopefully it may help getting lube in there for when it comes to pulling it out? Also would it be worth turning the axle upside down and clamping it down to the jig and then making a jig that can adjust for camber and caster and then secure that to the kingpin bushes and then push down onto that jig with the ram? Helps to keep the ram further from the heat and you might have more control over setting camber and castor relative to the centre of the axle?
Fantastic videos by the way! One a week is more than enough, wouldn't be the end of the world if you went to one a fortnight, don't want to run the risk of video burnout!!
Pulling the new pin is easy, light heat and two taps with the hammer it’s out, unfortunately I didn’t film that part
@@bennettscustomsco Yeah I will admit to be a bit premature with my comment. I went out to the garage after watching the first bit of the video then the rest when I came back in! Glad to see you got it sorted.
Son called Hudson, daughter called Hornet ?!
i wonder if anti-seize would help ??
I don't understand how you can have a symmetric end result by using the same roller surface for the second bend. I was expecting you would need 1/2 shims or another set of rollers with 1 inch different diameter.
Are the finished profiles duplicates?
Finished axle measures exactly the same each side
My bad, I missed the 10 mm freeload for the cam rolls.
Reheat it for gods sake...I cant watch
Next time I'll be sure to watch till the end before commenting😂😂😂
Scusami ,hai una bolla digitale non devi per forza livellare l'asse,metti la riga azzeri la bolla e provi le angolazioni !
Good cool! That would work great
@@bennettscustomsco 👍
anyway congratulations, excellent work, I'm following you from Italy