Helldivers 2 - What Made Sony Backtrack
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- Helldivers 2 situation got so bad that Sony actually backtracked.
This video is from a stream that took place just hours before it happened
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WE WON BOYS, SONY WENT BACK !!! FOR LIBER TEA !!!
I love tea!
While I'm very happy we won I'm still gonna be a little cautious on this up until May 30th I think because you never know if they're gonna turn their back again
It's still region locked, don't be too hyped
@@Fantasygod930 Theres literally no fuckin way. The game got cooked so fast, it became one of the lowest rated games on steam in a day. I think theyre fully aware not to do shit again. Well, one can hope
@@JanPapiezGaming They'll change that. No reason for it anymore.
As someone who bought the game on a country that is not supported by PSN, thank you for not leaving me behind
We need you, all of us 👍🏻
We got ur back 👍🏻 helldivers never die
It’s an honor to serve with you. No helldiver left behind. Helldivers never die!
We dive together or else we don't dive at all.
For liberty! For democracy! If they went through with this, despite me loving this game to death I would have stopped fighting to support those in other countries.
Their biggest mistake was targeting the game that made the community work together before this shit even happened.
Exactly 😂. This community was strong af then they try to pull this shit 😂😂
Lmaoo right this is the most unified and supportive game community I’ve ever seen
You bring up a really good point.
You know, that is a very interesting point, and it is obvious after the fact... This is a good thing.
community and probably Valve that they are afraid to mess with. Once Valve gives refunds to a game, the publisher of that game will know about it.
They only backtracked cause Steam offered everyone refunds. If they weren't losing money they would never backtrack. Another common Steam W.
Steam wouldn't have taken actions if the situation hadn't been brought up to their attention by the players suddenly bombing the reviews
@@nixia64point being most businesses wouldn’t care about gamers at all. Thankfully Valve and AH do but this could have ended very poorly
@@bidoof4938 If Valve wouldn't have issued refunds, class action lawsuits would have
@@teaser6089 sure but by the time any of that went through the courts, the game would have died by then
This is why competition are good for consumers. Steam's not allowing refunds because they're consumer friendly. No, they're allowing refunds to purposely screw with Sony because it's obvious Sony's long term plan is to create their own ecosystem and probably their own launcher which would cut Steam out of their slice of the pie.
Number 1 problem is Sony selling products to countries they don't support. Doesn't matter if they say "subject to changes" or "currently" on their website. They still sold the game to people who will eventually lose access to it.
Gotta love how Sony published a game that attracts the kind of audience they despise the most. The kind that doesn’t like to get pissed on
Hell yeah brother, people went nuts on the reviews 😂
Well marvel, Disney, Lucas Film hate their audiance too.
@@piotrjeske4599 and i wonder how its working out for them..oh wait...
@@sinafey7030I heard they're completely broke now for going woke... Oh wait
@@piotrjeske4599 Well, they solved that problem by getting rid of the audience.
I think people would've just taken this on the chin if Helldivers wasn't a game that had already brought their playerbase together under a common banner with a common goal. I'm so glad this is the game Sony pulled this on and we actually pushed it away and made a difference
I know right, Sony done alot of greed and censorship BS while attacking everyone if they disagree. I'm happy that Sony decided to fuck around with the PC/worldwide Helldivers and found out.
I'd love it if it turned out this was arrowheads plan all along they hated the idea of it being mandatory so they get everyone under one banner fighting for a singular cause and domb the bombshell leading to everyone telling sony to shove their shit,
To me the only real motive i can see is sony doing this to make it harder for xbox to get the game and as an added bonus they could data farm
It's funny that you mention the Blizzard "don't you guys have phones" moment, because the CEO already made that joke himself on Twitter. This is definitely one of the largest corporate failures in recent memory. We hit Sony so hard they backtracked instantly when they got in the office on Monday. Meaning this went from "no one at Sony cares" on Friday afternoon, to literally one of the first items on their agenda on Monday morning. We even got a cape to commemorate our victory. I hope we'll remember this for years to come. Not as an extreme failure, but as a victory. None of the other examples you listed ended up with a complete victory. But the Helldivers community finally beat the odds and won an immediate victory over Sony.
And the community is all-in on May 6th Liberation Day. We've already passed the maximum positive reviews in any of the previous months, and it's only been a few hours after the announcement. At this rate, we'll be in positive review territory before the end of the day.
Steam did it by delisting the game. Crying like babies doesnt do shit.
@@MetalGear69 to an extent, but why did steam delist the game? It all has to start somewhere.
@Lithane97 because ppl requested refunds. Votes with your wallet, not your keyboard.
Ppl who stopped playing and requested refund did something. Ppl who review bombed and kept playing did nothing.
@@MetalGear69 hearts and minds
@MetalGear69 "NOOOOOO! I CAN'T HAVE IT!! YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING BABIES! FUCK THIS!"
That's how people's like ya are sounding in the comments,it's kinda sad.
The reason Sony backed down is because people actually got refunds after a huge amount of hours played. Steam quite literally showed them the tip of the middle finger and said "keep going buddy.......try me. Let's see what's gonna happen". If players said "Sony changed the terms of agreement and i dont consent" steam would have refunded to pretty much everyone. I'd be damned if Gaben didnt have a hand in this. Knowing that man he most likely spent a healthy amount of hours on HD2 and just made a phone call to his execs going "hey buddy.....you know hd2? yea bring out the crowbars. We need to send a message"
“bring out the crowbars” 😂 love it!
Very underrated comment, Steam is absolutly MVP here. If Sony was direct seller they would take the heat and moved on.
I believe in my heart that GabeN really did this, as we know that steam was exceptionally refunding the game
I'd like to believe gaben was chilling playing some HD2 in his ranch like one of those super op grandpa's in anime. a
and after sony did this gaben just called his friends and was like "well bois you see this sh*t get this solved asap"
I wouldn’t be surprised if Gabe *is* a Diver
They didn't think a playerbase trained in cooperation and community based goals would band together and unify against a bad decision? Dang, no words
they thought that a player base that readily accepts gameguard would have no problem giving a phone number lol
@m.j.e.5245 I hate gameguard but my roommate will not shut up about playing it so yeah guess I'm getting data farmed
This is the best take
@@m.j.e.5245 it was never about the phone number, it was all the friends you made in game that lived somewhere sony didnt like so they literally cant make an account so their game would never work after buying it
@@goldtorizo2294 lol that doesn't change that sony and arrowhead thought they can gaslight you because you accepted a rootkit anti cheat
This reminds me a lot of Star Wars Galaxies. After 2-3 years of the game being out, Sony Online Entertainment decided to completely change the game. They changed from a 3rd person perspective to an over the shoulder camera, removed 75% of classes (going from 23 professions to 7), made all classes cookie cutters, and forced people to play a storyline quest instead of the sandbox it was released as. Players were told that SOE had no choice, and that it was all LucasArts' fault. However, when the changes happened and protests were abound, the SOE CEO John Smedley took sole credit for the changes. On top of that, he was arrogant enough to say that any loss of subscribers would be replaced with new subscribers and those who complained would not be missed.
Queue the exodus of 90% of the players and the shuttering of SOE.
Thankfully Sony has at least learned SOME lessons.
Banning that guy until he signs up for the newsletter is honestly genius
Yeah, that was next level!
Bruh record low of 400,000+ negative to 320,000+ positive.
That was insane.
This is extreme whiplash from a bystanders POV
Democracy in action.
The people have spoken.
,,I love democracy"
You have 200k+ people deployed everyday fighting side by side. Thats what happen’e when you unite a player base that is PvsE.:
@@periodicdragonflare5572I'd heard it was coming to Xbox and the Halo players were on standby until now. It's a shame.
Helldivers 2 is a unique game that lets you fight for Democracy IN GAME AND IN REAL WORLD TOO!!
For ahem … “managed democracy” which is kind of similar to “our sacred democracy”
Yeah, you’re totally fighting for democracy in the game, totally.
We fucking did it again guys
It was just the new IRL patch for Helldivers 2, but instead of bugs and Skynet, the opponent was the overlord Sony lmao
I did my part!
NOT Helldivers. SONY.
Helldivers had an agreement with a publisher, Sony decided they wanted user info to market (and lose in their next data breach).
incorrect. joel made this decision, not sony. educate yourself.
arrowhead is at blame too, and luckily some bad publishers up there let us know its not just sony lmao
@@z28yeti cap. Educate yourself.
@@chrisbruchak4519 So you got no arguments for that. Noted.
@@senorakira8650 no, i dont. Ive corrected 20+ people today and have a life. Accept that youre wrong. Period.
"ArrowHead Aragorn: "The beacons of Super Earth! The beacons are lit! Banned Helldivers call for aid!"
PC King Theodin: "And PC Helldivers will answer""
RIP Bernard Hill 😢
I love that qoute "There's always shit eaters rationalizing eating shit."
Can i have a timestamp please?
@@john_doe6683:15
Yeah some of the HD2 groups I am a part of have been talking a lot of shit and making up excuses for this move. I'm a PS and PC player, and I was defending the PC side. It's messed up to implement this and then stop selling in those countries that wouldn't be able to play no more. That was scummy as fuck.
@@willwolf8436 They never stopped selling the game, that was STEAM. They were in all likelihood, never going to stop selling the game or letting people in non-PSN regions play it. They came out with a blanket requirement and didn't realize it needed a little more nuance. They would've gotten there immediately, with or without the huge spaz out from the community, just from STEAM and AH telling them what was happening.
@@Dominx21 danke
Remember in 2002 when Sony burned Star Wars Galaxies to the ground, went from 100k players to 10k players in a month and never recovered. Sony never acknowledged or apologize or anything. I'll never forgive them and it's been 🧐 22 years.
Too soon man... too soon. :'(
Sony has gota be the worst company i have ever seen like honestly bro this is just sad
@@jjhh1606 what does this have to do with anything Arrowhead litterally came out and said it was their fault. Thy turned off the psn requirement that made it regon Locked, they are also the one who turned it back on the game was never syppose to hit thoes contry anyways Sony made the decision to turn that back.
Sony has been burning companies and IPs to the ground since they got into video games.
@@KamikazeChinamanhuh talk about not knowing history.
50:47 - Retailers like Walmart hired psychologists to do various tests on shoppers without their knowledge in the stores, like altering the temperature of the store and other factors to see how it impacted sales, as well. They also tested things in regards to product placements and many other factors that the average person will not even think about.
People really don't understand the breadth people will go to, to maximize profits and minimize loss.
Or to exert maximum control.
@@lorecow88welcome to the internet. RIP
Edit: if 88 was the year you were born, im sure you agree
Even the section of the shelf the product is on. The product makers actually bid to get the more profitable shelf spots. (so the retailer gets even more money)
feels like arrowhead CEO took a very calculated risk. knew that there will be a huge backlash by the community that would make sony bend the knee. accepted the risk that their reputation would take the hit.
If there's no helldiver's 3 or other things to collab with sony for then he was smart. I imagine he's not on the sony xmas card list anymore
This will be remembered like Blizzard's "Do you not have phones?!" Or EA calling their lootboxes "surprise mechanics" to the UK Parliament.
This event actually reminded me most of the loot box and grinding mechanics of Star Wars Battlefront 2 at launch. EA backtracked too and the game changed and became one of the best multiplayer action games in my opinion.
@@MyAnalyseryeah. But you could always feel the void in battlefront. You could feel the wasted effort on the boxes, time that wasn't spend on making a great game.
They are insanely profitable still so I don’t think they got the message. Every single game ea releases is broken and full of bugs day one. They make the same sport games and resale them every year with literally nothing new but an updated rooster. People keep buying it lmao. Not to mention people out here spending $100,000 on dlc for Diablo 4 to eat minnows all day. These giant companies won’t stop until nobody buys their games. Complaining on Twitter doesn’t work. Stop giving them money.
We can't forget this, we can't let Sony forget this cause they WILL try something like this again. Decades of goodwill destroyed in 3 days.
But in a positive way
And if the Epic store had won against Steam this victory would have probably not occurred because Epic didn't want to have customer reviews/forums for those who remember way back in 2018.
Epic is a pawn of Tencent, and thus doesn't want the consumer to heavy any right or any privacy, or any personal live really.
Epic had zero chance against steam. No one wants to install multiple game store clients.
@@gamechannel1271 that's not the reason, people could have multiple stores installed, the problem is that every other store/launchers are trash by itself and compared to steam there's not even a competition
Just the Steam link app has incredible value for me imo, not just for playing games on mobile. if I want to turn off my computer I just pop up the app it takes 15sec
@@gamechannel1271I got multiple. Namely I got GoG and Steam. Many people I know got both of those.
We don't have Epic tho. Issue ain't getting multiple launchers. Its the fact Epic's launcher is garbo. GoG gets you some good old games (in every sense of that term) with really good compatability features so there's plenty of classics you can get there which on Steam are way worse due to lack of updates, or simply aren't available on Steam.
Epic however isn't dumpster diving for the classics of old and has no compatability system. So unlike GoG it offers nothing Steam doesn't offer too. And who the hell would ever prefer that glorified bug of a launcher? no one that's who.
This is proof that when MEN unite for a similar cause, we can achieve any goal, conquer any kingdom, and backtrack any advance. Men built society and men will continue to build it.
Strange to be so strongly against devil's advocate arguments. The Supreme Court spends most of its time weighing out devil's advocate arguments for good reason, because these situations usually end up coming up in the future.
Depends on the situation and place I think. I usually advocate for Devil's Advocate arguements but for the Internet it's hard to differentiate what is genuine and what is trolling.
As for Asmon's case in the matter of "Don't argue if you don't believe in it" is indeed odd but does make sense in certain context, like merely saying out of spite under the guise of 'Devil's Advocate'. He probably got into it numerous time till he defaulted into such state if mind.
Ofc this is just my assessment not a matter of fact.
What I don't get is that he uses devil's advocate quite a bit by arguing for the other side. Whenever he's trying to make sense of why the bad people did what they did. So it is a bit hypocritical of him.
@@Zeltaris I don't agree with that. To understand why things happen you do need to understand where both sides coming from. Not saying the bad guy is a good guy, this is just a way to sort out why things happening. Sometimes one may ended up fighting on the wrong side if they totally ignore the other side of the story.
How does one know a bad guy is actually a bad guy, if you don't understand their reasoning. Their move is probably a bad one from ones perspective but it might be reasonable from their end because they are in a different situation than yours.
Imagine 250 000 refunds.. Sony would definitely feel that one.
Ouch, how though. I thought refunds were impossible after 2 hours of gameplay? Does that mean that these people played for less than that or is there a certain reasoning why this was allowed
I dunno if they would because it's steam refunds, I doubt ps players are refunding their games quite as much as the steam ones
i think if you go for the country part you can refund if you life there, the other obe was something about contract@@HansWurst1569
@@HansWurst1569 They changed the terms..
Originally PSN was listed as "Optional" not mandatory. I can make the case that I live in Zimbabwe and get a refund because my country isn't listed. Many people who live in first Tier cities got refunds. You just need to be crafty!
Steam changed their stance for this one so u could get refund after 100+ hours.
So Steam pushed Sony too.
Sony:"Linking to a PSN account will be mandatory."
Helldivers 2 community:"No."
Sony:"Understandable. Have a nice day."
Gentleman. I think this calls for a celebrations firework. *down up left down up right down up*
We've carved another foothold on the long climb to liberty.
still that game should die after what happened
@@MrPanGonzoHell no. Helldivers 2 is one of the better games released in years, especially in the multiplayer live service category.
cannonically this gotta be remembered in game as a liberty day or something lmao
@@SonOfHubris Let us all remember the day, when the robots' dastardly attempt to take over Super-Earth's communication channels was thwarted by the Helldivers' courageous efforts at the ballot box! A major victory for managed democracy!
Peoples knowledge on this is so scattered. No one realized Sony controlled the steam page. No one realized that the Sony that published this game is the American gaming company.
The company that controlls the Playstation division is the american company Sony not the JP sony.
People keep thinking your aren't giving them much info by having to create PSN account. But besides that you have to LINK your steam account which means they now can see all your public data from steam. Data collectors don't just get your info from one location they use it to link to other locations and pull more information which then could link to other items.
I think Valve/Steam played a big role as well. It was most likely Steam that delisted the game in the regions that couldn't get PSN. There's also the fact that not very long ago Steam put a system in place to minimize review bombing. They did not use that system on Helldivers 2, not deleting negative reviews. That essentially means Valve/Steam saw those negative reviews as legitimate. I'm happy we won and I hope that the community can get things back on the positive track they were on. I feel like we need to show a little grace in victory. We made our stand, we won, now let's not devalue all that effort by being bitter jerks about it.
Steam doesn't delete the review bombs, they simply hide them and mention "hey, this game was review bombed. We hid them from the score, but you can reveal the score with the bombed reviews".
But yes, they didn't activate this. Which does mean they saw the complaints as valid.
I think it's weird you guys celebrate the other 3rd party useless software you must share your data with in order to play hell divers.
@@Xyler94also add that Steam usually takes 60 days before a studio receives its money.
Meaning Steam froze Sonys account with them before any money could be transferred. The fact that Steam did not have the info at hand was a big blunder on Sonys part and pretty much set Valve up as a blade for the community to swing.
Yep, this was a large factor and may have been the deciding thing. Good guy Steam coming in with the save. The world is going to be a poorer place without Gabe Newell in it someday.
Gaben did nothing and won again
The meme you are talking about, in Australia we call it "doing a Bradbury". First Australian to win a winter gold medal and all he did was not fall down.
I think I remember seeing that happen. Dude went from like 6th to first in an instant, fucking hilarious.
@@Minizemfulmore than once. That’s what’s so incredible.
I agree with Asmon saying all they had to do is offer an incentive. They even listed the reasons for incentive (back ups, recovery info) but they didn't offer the alternative of "but if you don't create a psn account to link you won't receive these benefits:"
These companies have gotten so high on their own supply they forgot that they are supposed to offer a product to the consumer in order for them to eat
Funny thing is even after I put my card on something I never save it I’d rather retype it then save it and forget it’s saved on something plus it makes me think if I want to buy something at the time so it’s a good thing to not save card info imo
Sony was involved in an even worse screw up years ago with Star Wars Galaxies. Not three weeks after they released an expansion to the game and people all bought it, they released a complete overhaul to the entire game, deleting a dozen character professions, eliminating skill-based combat, and simplifying everything. It was a complete game overhaul that deleted years of people's character's progress and grinding professions. Everyone left the game and it died.
The only reason I would ever consider a PS is for bloodborne, DeS, and Ghost of T
@@putridterrain That's not how you deal with scumbags. What you are saying is that you won't put up with this shit unless it suits.
@@putridterrain and aren't we getting ghost on pc
@@putridterrain DeS is playable on RPCS3, so that one isn't a problem at least. BB though, idk if it will ever be emulatable.
How old are you grandpa? That was 22 years ago.
One thing Arrowhead needs to do is fire most of their "community managers" because they are terrible and was the biggest complaint before the PSNmegedon happened.
I'd say balance being abysmal/them making changes that actively make the game less fun were the biggest complaints.
The shit community managers were a close second though. Twinbeard is pretty cool tho
indeed, the CM of Arrowhead aren't compatible with the community
I actually disagree. Yeah they're rude and abrasive, but at least they dont talk to you in that fakey fake way that other community managers sometimes default to. It feels like im actually talking to another human being. They could do with being less dickbags thoughh
Except for Twinbeard. He kept himself level headed throughout the whole thing.
I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard of a good community manager in gaming. They are somehow always the worst picked people for their jobs.
I feel like asmongold is one of the streamers that knows almost every gaming law in history for each company
The CEO saying "idk" was his way of saying it wasn't his or their choice, it came from overhead. Probably Sony itself trying to capitalize off Helldivers
Sony: You would stop playing because of some 3rd world group who don't have PSN? You would reject the game because we changed the deal after you bought it?
Helldivers: Yes, in the name of democracy. No helldiver left behind!
I mean, handing operating system level access to a company trying to farm biometric data with a history of major unresolved data beaches is also a pretty big reason to say no lol
Arrowhead: i have an idea, lets try it out. We dont have a solution so u have to help us if the ship sinks. But we are happy to accept the extra amount of cash u gonna give us in order to do it.
Those are Non-U.S. Banking AML-KYC countries. They don't want Western people associating or sending $10 to some area that doesn't follow Central Banking Laws... It is kind of F'kd
Fully democratic EU countries were excluded too, though
@@criseist9786 do they gain that level of access with a psn account?
I bet the Arrowhead CEO wouldn’t logically expect Sony to have a mandatory account creation but also sell the game in countries where they can’t make the account. It’s such a stupid move on Sony’s part.
Reading must be hard
He knew the mandatory account bindings as that is why he apologized since he is the one have that disabled to lower the load on their server when the game released, but he didn’t know is PSN’s piss poor region lock issue.
Except Arrowhead fully knew that it was a requirement, and admitted that themselves.
he does but he thought he have negotiation power during the grace period.
Complying people to make accounts and log in and be online is a stupid move. I don't care if I can make an account on the moon.
It sounds like the SEO didn't want this link thing to start with and was forced to do it. He gave Sony an excuse saying something like "it messes up the servers we can't implement it now, but we can get it in later."
Sony was "sure, you got half a year."
In the back of his mind I'm sure he knew this was going to cause a shit storm and Sony would have to back down.
50:13 - The power move on the vega boiiii was just genius, props to whoever suggested it!
I'm guessing a combination of two things. First, the massive amounts of refund requests strained their relationship with Valve. Second, their legal department informed them that they would likely lose a lot of lawsuits and face further reputational damage for bait-and-switch and breach of fiduciary duty, particularly in countries where you could buy the game on Steam but not set up a PSN account. My guess is that Sony thought that pumping up their PSN subscriber numbers and the user data's value was worth the cost, but they underestimated just how big of a financial and legal screwup this was.
Marketing didn't talk with Legal and Finances....
There are some greedy money grabbers up top at Sony.
You mean how Xbox uses Steam players for Halo to bump up their numbers? Or PalWorld that was mostly only popular on STEAM but you saw Phil Sarah and Matt out there boasting about its popularity???😂😂😂 wow y’all pc dudes are insane
You don't understand fiduciary duty, but the rest of what you said is likely correct.
@@kgrass976lol? What?
Due to a technical issue, I won't be able to change my review to positive for 2 months.
I've updated mine - still negative, but I would like them to address those obnoxious community managers. Especially baskinator and spitz. Besides the fact that they're both part of the woke-twitter brigade, they're extremely unprofessional.
Why would you change a negative review to a positive one in a situation like this anyways? By doing so, you're giving Sony the OK to keep on doing this in the future. And that your negative review becomes invalid and non-invoid.
@@GHOSTSTARSCREAM nah, Sony isn't hurt by the negative reviews, AH is.
@@GHOSTSTARSCREAM You gut it backwards. By not doing so you're showing companies that it's there's no point for them to take proper corrective actions. If a company gives in, listens to the fanbase, reverses decisions, does the right thing, and you don't "accept the apology" why would they bother correcting anything in the future? If you want companies to actually do the right thing and listen to the fans, then you tip your hat to them when they make the right decisions.
@@Maxavian 'Tis the way, encourage positive changes and wise decisions. It's how we all learn to behave better.
I have learned, before I buy or decide something to ask myself three times, if I really want to buy/need it.
After that I listen inside myself. If I feel no positive "resonance" or reaction I do not buy it.
With that method you are able to counteract any shady sales trick that was thrown at you.
Yeah any time I feel rushed or pressured to but something on the spot I just walk away and make a plan to buy it tomorrow. If I still want it then, after I've had time to think more on it, I'll buy it. But most of the time I completely forget about whatever I was going to buy lol. I have a huge folder of saved webpages to buy stuff that I've never opened again
I definitely agree, HD2, is a dad game. It's also 200% a game you play when you get off work, then after 2-5 matches, you go to sleep.
My Dad religiously played WoW when you got off work. It's the one of 3 things I knew him for: "Smoking, WoW, and leaving us for 4 years to get Black Ass and do drugs."
He was also playing AoE too, got me into RTS.
Live Service is one of those kind of games you play when you got time.
You can consider Sony have not backtrack yet.
1. Their post only on twitter.
2. No post update on steam page/steam news (I know it is still early inthe morning in US)
3. No backtrack for region/country which filtered out (doesn't matter who did the restriction in the first place).
4. No change in EULA to clearly state PSN account and or account linking is optional, and this condition cannot be changed on later date.
5. Remove the yellow box from steam pages.
6. Promise better comunication and transparancy.
All of this requires Steam to confirm the changes. Do you think Sony can just go in and use the steam infrastructure as they see fit? like what?
Bro give it a day or 2 for the changes to update on steam, it's not like the steam pages took the game down the second the news was released
Imagine how much worse the backlash will be if Sony ended up proceeding anyway.
I'll wait till things settle down first
I can’t agree more, when the tweet came in last night I thought thee things.
1) it’s just a tweet, no teeth behind it.
2) the FAQ wasn’t changed
3) that last sentence in the tweet …”and we’ll keep you updated on future plans.” It seems like something a company would say if they want to reduce the temperature but implement some tomfoolery in a little bit.
Steam probably told Sony that everyone from those countries you delisted is getting a refund automatically.
They also probably told them that anyone else from the other countries where it's still sold that asks for one is getting one as well.
So Sony backtracked.
Praise lord Gaben yet again
@@vietviolar5850 Gabe left some white stuff on your chin, maybe you should wipe it off.
steam was loosing money
And doesn’t Steam keep their cut even if a game gets refunded? So that full amount would be coming out of Sony’s pocket leaving them at a deficit
Common Gaben W
This is a GREAT viseo, well done Asmon...I love the Star Forge ultimatum !!! Great great. I looked at the CPU's there cause I need a new one ...Nice stuff but outta my price range . Thanks
I love how we all stand up for a game but not our own country or morals and values
And... just like that, the decision was reversed and the PSN requirement has been dropped.
Can't imagine why.
What's crazy is that it was proven that the game works without it on accident, and there's literally no good reason for it
As soon as the first refund was issued, my first thought was: "Less than 24 hours before this gets fixed"
Rhetorical question aside, it wasn’t the outcry, it was your money.
They listen to their bottom line, nothing else. Corporations are not human beings. Every worker is merely an organ in a gigantic entity, a cog in a machine. Reasoning with them won't work until the money runs dry.
But, but I thought PSN account adds a lot of value according to a community manager, this means less security on our accounts and Sony won't be able to ban people?
"Your fellow HellDivers rage against Sony, join them"
really nice video, the yt short which got made out of the part around 52:00 didn't make much sense without the context of this video
If you go to the 3-month chart for player count, you can see every single weekend, every one of them, was a peak for that week, since release. Except this weekend. This was the first week in the history of the game where the weekend player count (fri-sun) was lower than the preceeding week's player count on mon-thurs.
Is this the power of having games on steam? This is amazing that a community worked together and finally showed the power of the customers. To bad Tarkov had no refund and isn’t on steam because that’s a game that needs to be hit hard
Its the power of we the people, world wide, when we are tired of getting screwed over by these corporate monsters. All we have to do is stand up together and their house of cards will fall every time. We hold the power.
Helldivers made history within a few days, we blitzkrieged Sony for this one
Next stop selling ps5 and buy and Xbox xD
@@recur9245 There's a saying of sorts in my country. It goes along these lines; Plague or Cholera and that at the moment is Xbox consoles and Playstation consoles. People would be better of putting that playstation 5 money towards getting a pc/upgrading their pc so they can play Helldivers (and other games) with less nonsense.
Edit: Xbox game pass is pretty decent value for now though even if I don't think the consoles are worth it anymore. I'll give them that.
@@recur9245 Or pc for a bigger game library
Nice reference 😂
@@recur9245But Xbox is even worse
That ban around the 50min mark was so incredibly on point. "It's not a big deal to have something taken away until you provide more PII." "OK, you are banned until you provide us some PII."
I’d be very interested to learn what valves roll in all of this was. I’d imagine they weren’t to happy with Sony pulling the rug out form under a huge chunk of there customers.
"People hate on Sony, but as you can see they listen to their audience." - A random comment on Reddit.
No bro, their broker made calculations and they predicted that their yearly profit will be down by XY% so they made a correct business move.
That one guy is coping like crazy
It's not correct if you predict that this will happen
Yeup
We haven't won yet. We still need to make sure our overseas brother and sisters are no longer blacklisted. We dive together or not at all. 💪💪💪
The Filipino Brigade must not be disbanded
A universalized controller preset if you tune your controller on the psn and want to use that same thing on the same game on pc , so that you can just quick tune your friends controller when you vissit
Sony can backtrack all they want, I uninstalled and applied for a refund. Not gonna take the risk that they just try something similar in a year or two after they think we've forgotten.
I did same thing but steam denied my refund because i bought it over 2 weeks ago...
@@jbright109 Yeah, I'm not really expecting a refund and I won't be surprised or upset if a refund is denied -- I've had the game since February and have played around 60 hours. For me it's less about the money I can get back and more about the message I can send to Sony.
@@jbright109 you need to reference the tos changes that you do not consent to.
1:22 And I will say, "Oh, you mean that one time when a whole group of gamers were trained to believe in Freedom and Democracy and when [[[SONY]]] did stupid SONY things, the Helldivers went ⬆➡⬇⬇⬇ and threatened to 500KG the game rather than give into Automaton Tyranny? Yeah, that was fucking awesome!"
Bad upload timing they reverted it
Still works as an Archive
I'll believe it when they remove the requirement from the Steam store page.
Lol I was thinking oh shit Sony reverted again.
Managed democracy won again!
The game is still delisted in a number of countries so they only reverted one fuck up.
I like that youtube is so messed up on mobile right now that when I clicked this video it showed me a creepy pic of mudahar before the vid loaded.
I think it's amazing how people don't understand what a publisher is. Arrowhead didn't sell a single copy of the game, Sony did.
the amount of people ive had this argue with, or a couple who said its steams vault like they hand pick where evey game on the store is sold. sony fanboys are coming up with any excuse to defend sony
Not true. Look at Larian Studios. Did they need anyone to sell Baldurs Gate 3? Helldivers 2 would have sold AMAZING on its own. Why? B/c it all comes down to gameplay and how fun a game is and Helldivers has it. So your statement is incorrect to think Arrowhead needed Sony.
Devs should still be held to account for using a dogshit publisher.
Sony owns the Helldivers IP, they didn't even need to use Arrowhead at all.
@@sdghtjsdcgs pretty sure originally they tried Microsoft? Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get the money.
you can debate all you want, that PSN statement on their website will not stand a chance against EU trade comission laws. That can definetly be basis for a lawsuit.
That is true as someone explain this in detail to me before. I can see the EU kicking sony down over and over. That would be bad for Sony since they already screwed half the world with their greed and adding the EU to that list of problems is going to break Sony.
Bet the lead dev got a clear 'hint' that he should take some of the heat, but was actually bullied by SONY to implement PSN.
I had not bought it yet. Im staying away for a while more after this as if it can happen once then its possible they might not be changing due to regret but just to retry in a more sneaky way. I will hope for the best and might get it later but looks nice
Major companies treat reputation like a resource to spend and it’s baffling.
Edit: Please, look up what assets and capital are.
Ahahahahahah do you know what the futures market is? Or what the financial system does or how it works?
I mean... It kinda is
"What are corporate bonds" - @aru5117
They have no respect for the unwashed masses because they intend to enslave us.
It is a resource. Very important one.
Just wait until Samsung S24 owners find out that the A.I. features on the phone, something that was advertised as a core feature of the phone, is only going to be free through the end of 2025.
Oops! ;-)
Apple is compiling all user data for ai training without any permission from the user that im aware of
Apple is and always will be a shit company
It's alleged, Samsung hasn't confirmed or denied this, although I would be surprised if they did considering the success of the Pixel and how it's AI features are (mostly) not paywalled🤣🤣
Yup, been thinking about this
last weekend is the may 1st weekend , its a big thing for some countries for example japan golden week ( holidays with family etc etc ). so it might affect the login figures for dad gamer :D
I think Sony and AH talked beforehand and in on it together. Why wouldnt they first tried to get away with it by push it to Sony right and said they didnt know. But then backtrack and said they knew.
If they didn't require a credit card I would be more likely to sign up. After the first big Sony hack in the early 10's I lost $500 to a hacker. After the charges took place I had to bounce between layers of customer support for 8 months to get my money back. The kicker is after the data breach they didn't tell anyone until after hundreds or thousands of people had their account compromised.
That was 13 years ago and you didn't have to add an account to register. Just an email
Bro just lied on national tv u needed was an email back then 2010s games weren’t as popular to buy online
@@full0fpestilence250 He didn't say that you "needed" a credit card to sign up BACK THEN. Also the PS3 store was pretty popular for its time and even if it wasn't, that doesn't magically get rid of the people who actually used it...
He's saying he made an account and added his card willingly in the 2010's and after the hack he is unwilling to do it again
@@slothysoap4589 He can’t say unwillingly because a credit card wasn’t enforced back then as it is now when I signed up I used a dummy email In 2008 and it just let me use that GameStop was still a thing and so was Redbox idk if I believe 500 dollars getting stolen from this guy for that very reason I wasn’t required to put on my card so I didn’t get hacked
"Sony has to pay $20 million...everyone gets $30" Did someone else get their check from the Crunchyroll class action? 🤣
31$ yes I did lol
What? Is that over? Where can I get that?
31$ lol yep class actions are free money
If anything this was gaming's A Bug's Life moment. Gamers finally saw that together (along with their wallets) have more power than they think. Hopefully it's something everybody remembers going forward. I agree with Asmon, very inspiring. Now if only we could make them reverse the censorship in a lot of their titles....maybe one day...
I knew about that the one dollar thing is for breaking the ice, but thanks asmon for teaching me about the pro sales technique. I will remember it and use it when the time comes ;)
I see his argument about the publisher. He made a call about turning off the account binding that wasn't really 'allowed', but the publisher and controller of the Steam page should 100% have ensured it could only be bought by correct countries. That account enabled or not shouldn't have impacted it as Sony mandated the account binding, meaning even if the game's internal system required a PSN account, Steam STILL would have sold the game to unapproved countries. The only thing that would have happened is it would have been safe to refund and the dev definitely screwed those people over thinking he was helping.
But, this still has a silver lining: Sony learned a lesson about messing with PC gamers. Either don't list their games at all, or respect our freedom of choice. Just like we don't pay to play non-subscription multiplayer games where Sony requires that on their consoles (which is so stupid, I bought a game and can play with people on PC - those people don't pay, but I have to pay $80 a year).
"...the publisher and controller of the Steam page should 100% have ensured it could only be bought by correct countries." the issue is the baltic states and poland too i believe can't make psn account but are part of the eu single market and can't be excluded. it's either sell in the eu or don't, that's the reason why the game was not delisted in those countries. i'm not even sure if not allowing psn accounts in those countries is 100% legal because of these implications
not a lawyer though
Huh you realized this was all Arrowheads fault not Sony right Arrow head is the ones who temp susspended thr psn requirement and made it be available in thoes countries when it wasn't suppose to m . The only thing it showed it that pc gamers don't read(it did say on the steam page psn would eventually be required) or even look up info . Also just because you have a psn account doesn't mean you have to pay for ps plus same way you don't have to pay for gamepass becuae you have a Microsoft account. They just blame who they want to and just make stuff up as they go
@@Hrivera585 how those Sony boots taste??
@@Hrivera585 ofc it's sony's fault they have control over the steam store page, they're the publisher who actually sells the game, they were also the ones making the decision that a psn account is required. on sony's now changed faq page it said that on pc/steam a psn account was optional.
psn plus doesn't matter sony has a terrible record when it comes to data breaches and it wasn't just email and passwords that leaked but credit card infos as well.
it's actually quite easy to understand once you pull your head out of the corpo ass. smells better too
@@Hrivera585Sony handled the sale, Arrowhead just didn’t enforced it because the server might explode (which it did). Sony should figured out the region lock if they are gonna enforce the account binding, not Arrowhead.
The problem now is that people review bombed all Arrowhead games not just hell divers 2, we need to tell people to undo these, it hurts the devs not sony
People are now bandwagoning and moving goal posts it’s going to get dirty
They dropped the Nuke, thats just the lasting collateral damage.
Sony needs to just not sht the bed in future
arrowhead was blatantly complicit in this entire debacle and theyre trying to play victim and some people literally arent having it. the pc community shows no quarter.
arrow head sucks and is at blame here too, and to be honest 100% arrowhead prob made the decision for it.
@@retro_founderthis very video covers how they didn’t.
*Major Order: Repel the Sony attack*
"...and like all Major Orders, it was cleared within 48 hours."
I’m not a gamer anymore, but I support my Helldivers brothers and sisters and am SO HAPPY for them! From the admin desk at the Super Earth Liberation Front, keep plugging on! Keep fighting! You’ve got way more support out there than you know! ❤❤
You know Sony will try the PSN thing again in Helldivers 2, within the next 6 months, right?
Hell, Ghost of Tsushima on PC is already confirmed that, for the Multiplayer, you need PSN.
If they actually communicate it correctly and dont sell the game in countries where PSN isnt available, it isnt a big deal. I bet no ones gonna cry when GTA 6 forces you to make a Rockstar Account and use their shitty launcher.
Next time they'll ask to pay PSPlus for playing online
@@D3adR0ck3r rockstar games are the most overrated shit i have ever seen
Yeah, we know, but when the time comes we'll be equally ready to oppose
the problem was never the policiy, just how they bait and switched the drm .
Beware of the tactical retreat, if we get everything we want in this we hold all the cards as consumers from now on and every game publisher will be heard crying out like banshees if we truly win. Its not a simple win this changes the game imo.
funny thing is that they changed that line on the sony website TWICE before he saw it
it originally said nothing about currently
This same problem happened with the Nintendo Switch. You didnt need to pay for online services, then one day they just decide you cant use the internet on it unless you bought their subscription service. It blew over and people still use the switch, amazon refused to refund mine even when I brought up that it changed.
Guys, 177 still delisted, a Tweet from Sony means nothing. Keep review negative until those countries are reinstated which is proof PSN is off the table.
They'll change that. No reason for it anymore.
@@berniepoppe9742 Read the wording very carefully in that Tweet, "Near future", that doesn't mean totally excluded.
Until those countries are back, expect them trying to sneak it in later.
Why are you fools running to give Sony the benefit of the doubt ?
play Helldivers but beware. dont keep your eyes close yet. i'll be waiting for another 6 months.
Thats what I was wondering while hearing about it, will Steam open the store back up for those countries, big fucking hassle Sony reverting right after Steam took it off, but they shouldnt have started this to be begin with, theres also no say that they wont do this again in another few months or year
Steam took it down to prevent themselves getting sued
I love how Asmon goes "It's a DAD game... see... Only Dad's who have jobs play games on the weekend" WHAT ABOUT SCHOOL BRO!?!?!
School Vacations bro.
Kids still play every day after school most dads dont play on weekdays.
You're right, there's probably teachers that play this game too
As a dad I can confirm we play more on weekends, weekdays I get about 2 or 3 hours to play
@@malcolmcurrie7542Can confirm. Our maths teacher frequently plays it lol
For A PVE game. This is the worst possible scenario for them.
You know what the correct way to have done this would have been? Introduce shaders (the ability to change armor/weapon colors) in the next update and make is so when you sign up with a new PSN account or link your current one before the date they wanted you get early access to the shaders and an exclusive shader that is Sony/Playstation's colors. The backlash would have never happened and you'd have loads of people signing up for PSN that otherwise wouldn't just to get shaders early.
To those who want a refund still.
You have to open a ticket with Steam Support. Provide the relivent information (reciept and any evidence of Sony changing the ToS on the fly). Then you may have a chance to gain a refund or full credit.
Also to the affected countries, its the same thing. Also do send a message to your consumer protection group as well.
Even if you choose not to go through a refund due to Sony bending the knee. Do submit information to the equivilant of the US FTC or EU's consumer affairs offices. Sony gaming division needs to be tought throughly so even the next CEO understands the mistake of his predicessor.
Gonna need some links , imagine most people don't know what or how
Why refund if people want to play it
@@verminlord9675 To send a message? Boiling frog scenario. But keep sitting in the water.
@@plama1192 the boiled frog had broken legs. A good way to show that backing down was the right decision is to treat them as if they did the right thing, finally. Treating them with distrust is also the correct decision, but we should give them a carrot and keep our hand on the stick.
I'm 31. I supply concrete. Nothing gets me pumped to get through the day now that i have Helldivers to look forward to after work.
Honestly this is how things are in the world of business and exports you have to do what it takes to get what you want to the top unless there's a overhaul change but until thing that's how things are today that's life.
For me, I liked Sony better when they were just selling TV's(waaay back in the day before I figured they did more than just that) anything else besides that is disappointing...
25:00 I had a teacher that defined lying as "saying something that isn't true to get something you don't deserve, or to avoid something you do deserve."
Edit: I always hope people have a good day, and are engaging in kindness and good faith.
Well, telling something that isn’t true in order to get something that you deserve, is lying too, this is the kind of definition that make people believe racism is not possible against white people.
Most actual definitions of the term are simpler and less ambigous at the same time, and even have the added benefit of not being mostly incorrect.
@@ryoriotwow what is incorrect about the definition?
@@theelephantandtherider9536 a lie is simply knowingly not telling the truth. some people break it down to different levels but thats it at its core its simply knowingly giving falsehoods. if i used the last of the sugar and tell my wife i didnt thats a lie if i used the last of the sugar thought there was more in the cabinet but was wrong and told my wife i didnt use the last of the sugar is not a lie its simply being incorrect i was not aware there was no more in the cabinet also. its pretty fucking simple anyone making it any deeper is doing so for the simple reasons of making themselves feeling better for the lies they have told for instance if you know someone is gonna die yet you failed to tell them when they asked if you knew you said you didnt most people would not like to think of that as lying but it is you KNOWLINGLY ( see thats the core of not telling the truth is you do it ON PURPOSE) told them something other than what you knew to be true.
oh and for anyone else trying to get around my analogy if i took the last of the sugar was sure there was no more and there turns out to be more after i told my wife i did not use the last of the sugar its still a lie i was incorrect but that doesnt change the fact that i KNOWLINGLY told her other than what i personally believed to be true
@@theelephantandtherider9536 inability to objectively explain the term "deserve"? Otherwise, the term "lying" becomes solely subjective, which is not the case
It is funny to me, that people actually blaming Arrowhead for selling their game everywhere, as if they have a say in this matter.
Sony just did a Sony.
(edit typo)
Arrow head itself might considering start a new self published/different publisher becuse of this fiasco
Dumb+strong opinions is a heck of a combo. And hell, even if they aren't actually dumb chances are they don't read into where the fault lies and just look for someone to vent at or are just joining a "cause" for fun and clout like with DD2 where they made legitimate complaints seem less valid because they didn't actually play the game and just review bombed it for clout. That said, Sony very much deserves the complaints this time and sure, Arrowhead did an oopsie but the anti-arrowhead crusade is just dumb and they're getting crucified for Sony's greed.
That was a pretty quick response and reverse from Sony. I'm impressed.
As far as player count being effected, its also important to keep in mind that because the change wasn't scheduled until the end of the month many people, myself and friends included, were playing the game with the idea that we should enjoy it as much as we could before PSN update dropped and we wouldn't be able to play as none of us were going to link accounts and we all really like the game.
Meaning that I don't think you would see a large player drop off until the change went into effect. That is when you would see the departure of all the people who actually wouldn't link their Steam and PSN accounts.
"Didn´t you get the memo?" - Lucius Fox Batman Begins
I really love the fact that all those documentary channels about helldivers warfronts will add this one to their repertoire lol.
I've worked w/ Sony in a community-facing role, amongst other publishers, and It's always so utterly funny to me to thing that fans can 'gotcha' a company just because their old Zendesk KB is still hosting outdated info. Is it F'ed up for them to say one thing 3 years ago and then they didn't update all the spots that still said the outdated thing when they change their mind? Yes. Is it sloppy? yes. Is it illegal? no.
That "games dont need this" post will just be a line item on a guy who watches Asmon who reports it to his supervisor who reports it to the floor manager who asks the CS team if they can change it and some guy will go "oh yea np" and then after the meeting they'll go delete that line or article.
Congrats internet, you got 'em! lol That 15 mins chain of conversation will cost Sony about 10,000 in Salary so at least there's that you can feel good about.
The other social backlash might work, but stuff like that article 'lying' always makes me lol when people think that matters to anyone in charge at all.
Either way, man I'm sure glad I don't have that client anymore lol
Account linking was asked to be developed 6 months before launch so it was last minute development task for the game
“Currently” implies “no game currently released” not “the games currently released don’t require it but we could change that at any time”.
You can be 100% certain new sony releases on pc will require this. Microsoft requires it for games on ps.