The Bane of Chaos Dwarfs? High Elves vs Chaos Dwarfs - Total War Warhammer 3
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
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#Warhammer #totalwar #Turin - Hry
Finally, a High Elf game against the Chaos Dwarfs. Feels like no CZcamsr has done this match up yet lol
No wounder, HE seem to be the hardest match up. So why making a video that let you or the CD look stupid
I love all the cinematic tactics that Turin pulls off. Whenever I try to do such things in my campaigns, it never quite looks as cool or works as well, with all these different units pulling off their little jobs and missions, each being summoned and used wherever it was needed. He sure knows his stuff!
Yeah, watching all these videos always makes me want to go play some TWW myself but it just isn't the same. You don't get cool fights in the campaign really.
Play multiplayer - campaign battles will never compare coz the Ai is so dumb 🤓
@@Posdnoid and what's considered a 'decisive victory' in multiplayer is a decimated army in campaign that needs to be replaced.
@@leadpaintchips9461given the ai can even somewhat play such a complicated multilayered game with strategic, tactical, campaign and quick battle considerations all with so many different factions each with their own mechanics is a statement of at least some effort. Unless they commit to improving it in this final game for a decade or more, or much better yet release the tools to the fans, there's only so much we can really expect. I do hope modders get the stuff they need to work on it because they will inevitably do a better job eventually.
@@00yiggdrasill00 TBH I hope so too, just because of how much modding can allow people to pull _so_ many levers to make the game be the most enjoyable to them.
Being able to play thematic armies that aren't min/maxed and still being challenged is fun for a lot of people. I just hope that we get enough levers so that everyone can have the experience they deserve.
9:20 There's an amazing QoL change added to those abilities; you can see if it's active or not by text color.
In this case "Enabled if: Unit is attacking rear or flank" is red, indicating it's not active. It should be green when they're attacking rear or flank.
Great match btw. Arcane Phoenix is really smart choice against the Chaos Dwarfs, but one I believe CA going to nerf since they nerfed Imrik and Dragon Princes in 3.0 (reduced Fire Resistance for both from 40% to 25%, obviously because of the Chaos Dwarfs, 40% was too high when you play against a race with full fire damage).
The lads at CA forgot the Arcane Phoenix.
And when you think that 40 is already nerfed from the 70% they used to have
Wouldn't mind seeing them add some icon or graphic on a unit when its charge bonus is active.
Hopefully they forget the irondrakes aswell, cause trollhammers are gonna turn the tide against these forsworn cousins.
I don't like how they seem to be undoing a lot of these more extreme, specialist units.
Yeah, it can be annoying if you run into a high fire resist enemy when you have mostly fire damage, but it hurts that unit's identity when you get rid of their special attribute just so a player who didn't plan ahead can easily counter them.
I really hate how they shifted the physical resist of ethereals down to 55%, even with their compensating buffs.
They feel a lot less like ghosts now when most units can pound them pretty quickly, even without magic damage. Stuff like Syreens just flat-out suck now.
@@nickaretta1329 Ethereal units got better stats, pure AP damage & special attacks (the last two are "ghost" attributes, so they still feel like ghosts), and they still got 55% physical resist which is not low by any means. Test them more and you'll realize their performance is actually better now. If they kept the 70% resistance they will be utterly broken!
The same logic applies to Dragon Princes (and Arcane Phoenixes if they get nerfed) since they also got physical resistance (20%) on top of their fire resistance (25%) = most of Chorf units deal half damage to them! Those are high-tier and decent units that will still perform well even if you deal full damage to them, when it's down to half they're guarantied to perform way over their value. They will still be spammed in multiplayer against Chaos Dwarfs after the nerf.
I get that it doesn't matter for campaign and it's okay to have op units there, but units' balance in this game is tied to multiplayer and always have been. In campaign you get the tools to make anything op when you want to (lord skills, technologies, landmarks, defeat traits... etc).
Man I'm so happy to see where you are today, it's really great to see your channel and content to be in such a great place. I played you a few times under the alias LordyFlashheart years ago when warhammer 1 first came out, I was amazed how you owned my Dawi so well with Vampire counts and was asking for advice to protect my backline, fast forward a few years and look at you now dude, thanks for all the great content since then ^^
How does the Pheonix stand up to a Lammasu? They have great stats and no fire damage.
Ooo a great idea!
A lot of people seem to think that the Chaos Dwarves are overtuned, but I disagree. The only things that are a *little* crazy are the bull centaur renders (Which are too slow to pick proper cav fights), Mr. Ironhand, and *maybe* magma cannons. Oh yeah, and armor-piercing blasting charges are broken but expensive. Everything here has a weakness.
It's quite funny to watch everyone on reddit or in the comment sections suddenly turn into a hardcore PvP player, preaching that Chorfs will be the end of all things because their cheap artillery is good against infantry or their (slow) monstrous cavalry unit deals damage...
Mr Ironhand?
@@G1ingy Astragoth to his friends
@@G1ingy Astragoth. He gets a gigantic physical res buff when his health gets low, which, combined with the fact he's infantry sized, makes him unsnippable by anything that isn't a Spirit Leech-type spell, and extremely hard to remove.
When those Blasting Charges are on a superior Ironbreaker chassis that is when it becomes broken. Infernal Ironsworn, the ones with broken as crap stats and blasting charges need a cost increase or a stat Debuff.
>Sisters of Avelorn get 670 value while using half their ammo shooting downhill at the back of an enemy unit = they are getting GREAT value
>Graniteguard get 1500 value while using 25% of their ammo = "not terrible" value
Bro...
Looks like he won, so I guess he's correct? Dunno.
@@inwit594 Not due to the great value that Sisters of Avelorn got though.
Great match! I was impressed by how well the Phoenixes were performing. Well played.
the foghorn leghorn connection is probably the walking animation, they move the same way.
Count yourself one of us pointy eared haughty lads anyday
Pretty sure no Blunderbuss unit do fire damage so the fire resistance isn't useful against them. Besides that it's great to see the phoenixes in action.
yup, it is hard to remember because the fireglaives and I think all the artillery all do fire, but the blunderbusses do not baseline.
Man I can only imagine how much fun Taco had dealing with three single entities with resistances to fire and healing, totally not oppressive lmao. Poor sod.
Imagine getting absolutely immolated by a hell fiend machine and just before dying you hear a disembodied voice casually say "yeah it tickles the pickle" and that is the end of your 1000 year elf existence
Ya know as excited as I am to play the chorfs. I’m glad to see them not being overwhelmingly powerful.
With the overcast snowing effect, this map looks way better than the glare fest that this was at launch. huge improvement visually!
Since chaos dwarfs lack magic resist, Tiranoc chariots might have a niche here too.
One tech I'd really like to see explored against Chorfs is Bloodwrack Medusas. They have the potential to wreck tightly packed armored infantry, and Chorfs seem to struggle to handle SEMs at range.
Biggest consideration is that you'd need a screen against Bull Centaurs, since Medusae are just slightly slower.
That's actually a really neat idea. Mortars and Magcannons prob aren't great vs. SEs and their shooting *REALLY* wants to be close to the front. An actual niche for medusas would be cool!
I'm always hoping to see Turin play High Elves more often so this was nice :)
I'm not sold on Shadow Warriors and Sisters of Avelorn against Chorfs, but Arcane Phoenix, Fireborn and Rahagra's pride are good counters. HE might be the answer to the Dawi Zharr menace !
14:30 it makes sense because he has similar legs to a Star Wars AT-ST which are often called chicken walkers.
Haven't seen this map on the channel in forever!! This was one of the more interesting vanilla maps imo
I think High Elves aren't as bad as their MP stats portray them, of course it depends on matchups and if the enemy is bringing an efficient build. I've been running Imrik with 1 or 2 Moon Dragons, Loremaster for magic, sometimes Phoenix Guard and supplementary units like spearman. Spearman hold up really well, which allows you to keep alpha striking different sections. Plus Imrik is just a boss and annihilates large SE's like they're pudding, but also melts lines of infantry on his dragon. I've been winning most of my games with this style, even against like a strong faction like Vampire Counts or Tomb Kings. I also try and go light or 0 on the ranged since sometimes it's nearly impossible to defend them (or i'm probably just bad at it xD) Amazing game looking forward to seeing more of what chaos dwarves can bring to the table.
Chorfs seem surprisingly balanced (in MP, their campaign buffs are bonkers).
High Elves finally getting on the roster D:
Was that 12:49 watch them as they go a reference to a foo fighters song?
I think that Chaos dwarves are great for the multiplayer meta. They seem to be an anti meta faction. Dunking on some of the top tier armies but struggling with some of the lower tier factions. Lots of people are calling for nerfs to magma cannons but id like to wait to see how the meta evolves. They seem a lot like the sunmaker to me in that if you don't know what they do they'll dumpster your army but if you build against them or have a plan to deal with them they're effectiveness can be minimised
Magmas are for sure OP!
Pretty sure that High Elf love at the end is a Grudging
Love watching your vids. Great casts!!
Would a dragon prince build be a good idea in this matchup? They're really expensive, but they have lots of physical and fire resistance, and I feel like they'd be able to shrug off way more damage in this fight than in most other matchups.
amazing commentary, turin, u absolute chad. hyped for chorfs!
11:53 It's fun to watch the goblins get bounced around by the Dragon Princes, even though none of them are engaged in combat any more.
The person who said foghorn leghorn was named Austin something!
I tried to remember it since it would come up again undoubtedly, yet I have mostly failed 😂
Wait a second, does it mean that fire born is finally relevant now with the introduction of chaos dawi ? XD
We can hold our pointy ears high at last :D
Lions get a bonus against infantry right? Might be a good option for threatening astrogoth?
As a high elf fan, I thank you for an excellent battle! It is good the see the high elves can beat the chaos dwarves! Thy can be beaten!
The one map where I'd recommend DQ mortars over the magma cannon. keep it low and safe while lobbing shots on the side points
03:17 i hope someday they will fix how 3 Units fire their entire Volley on the same 10 Models.
I am not convinced that Sisters of Averlorn would be a good idea against Chaos Dwarves. Sure they got AP, but they are also very vulnerable to artillery, monsters and cavalry.
And sure, you might be able to defend them against monsters and cavalry, but what about the enemy artillery?
Not to mention, their damage is already reduced, because of the enemy fire resistance. Which was the same issue they had against the dwarves in TW:W2 (just with magic).
To me, they seem like a very high risk, with a somewhat reduced reward. With an archer unit as expensive as them, barely paying for themselves after spending almost all their ammor on non-chaf units, with all their models up, is not exactly a win in my opinion.
if you turn vfx detail to ultra the projectiles will be sharp again and not so blurry
I think more units need fire resistance and maybe fire attacks also
Dragon princes in general, dragons, skarbrand etc.
It would be a new big step for the game for more strategy
Is it just me, or did they fix the blinding snow on this map? I remember it having awful glare.
CA not taking your maps as the high quality free labour they are is just plain stupid. The maps are up in the workshop, so there already shouldn't be legal issues for them either.
Nice game! And with so many meme picks :)
Nice to see a 2nd or 3rd Tier army doing well.
hyped for the release
I’m fairly certain blunderbusses don’t do fire damage by default
Rangers/White lions would be a nice frontline I feel, able to counter chaos dwarf infantry and laborers.
Alarielle the Everwaifu.
Love that high elves aren’t gonna get bowled over. Do people think we could see Aenarion in game?
Im diggin him bein called foghorn hahaha that s#$t is funny😂
Imrik would be very good against the chorfs.
Yes and yes
How do you use a unit or a hero as a lord in dom? Everytime I try to build it tells me I require a lord.
like chaos dwarfs a lot more now , nice to see these elven units hehe
Wow! HE win! Well done.
Does Ash Storm affect flying units? Combined with the shooting of the Daemonsmith, that's 40% fire resistance gone. That strips even the Phoenixes out of all their fire resistance.
Ashstorm hasn't gotten the credit it deserves, there's probably some serious blobmelting potential behind it.
the bane of chaos dwarfs is you big boss
The only thing they fear
Blunderbusses even normal dont do fire damage they all have supresssion
Me at 5:12
Is there a Dwellers Below? IS THERE A DWELLERS BELOW? Please tell me there is a Dwellers Below somewhere!
Turin maybe you should try rallying the community to get CA to add the maps because we all want to save one of our favorite games that they are killing with something as simple as maps!
Can't belive they buffed the rot flies but not the lions, they perform way worse than any other "big hound" unit and they are the most pricy one.
I thought it was just the better of 2 resistances that counted, do they stack ?
they stack yea, usually things don’t stack if they’re named the same thing. for example stacking two SL war shrines will only apply the mortis effect from 1
Did they fit the phoenix color??? For me it’s always been blue and purple for all of them
Yep, since immortal empire launch all arcane phoenixes had the coloration of the RoR, even Teclis' mount. Glad to see it finally fixed.
Fighting someone named Flying Taco, the lack of flying units and tacos in this video was really disapointing.
Blunderbusses dont have Fire Attacks... Granite Guards just slow you down when firing
The blunderbuss ROR wasn't a tech. Blunderbusses don't do fire damage at all. The Fireglaives do.
Do chorfs get hell cannons in mp?
Flying Taco is taco bell hot sauce hot with chaos dawi
Sisters do magic dmg isnt it ignore fire resist?
When is your next championship Turin?
Awesome to see arcane phoenixes! In accordance with human boy YesYes's video on unit behavior changes in 3.0, it really felt like your phoenixes had good maneuverability on the field. I'm excited to see SEMS and other potential disregarded units be given another chance. :) One of those changes that could potentially shake up the meta in some matchups. :)
Chaos Chorfs
Definitely disappointing that CA will hold tournament only on base maps meaning we'll get only 3-4 maps rotating.
Burbs
Astragoth is much more Dr. Robotnik to me than Foghorn Leghorn tbh
With that facial hair I'm surprised folks didn't see "eggman" sooner
@@dome2919 right? And the mechanical contraptions! I really think he actually had one of those chicken leg things
@@Narg_Smart Bonus points because an EGGman, would eventually becomes a CHICKENman (Foghorn Leghorn).
hows the bretonnian vs chaos drawfs matchup?
Chorf favored, but bret can win
@@turinRTS would repanse be a good tech against astragoth?
i dont think fire resist is that great against chaos dwarfs, they have a lot of high damage weapons that dont do fire damage and many ways to make you vulnerable against fire like the vial, flammable from the sorcerer gun or kindleflame while all of their units also have a good amount of fire resistance so the phoenixes and dragons arent as powerful
malekith on foot vs atragoth ?
GG
Ohhh boy
Yeah not one dread quake mortor or hellshrieker rocket. Kind of silly when you know the enemy is gonna bring loads of archers and big birds.
I think chaos dwarf players have been bringing to little chaff and too little fire powe to these fights. You need loads of slaves to slow harass and chase enemies. And with the bag stabing quality of the hob gobline wolf riders pining the enemy with chaff then rear charging is probably more cost effective then slow dwarf warrior infantry that is just gonne be pincushioned to death.
Chaff and a demon engine caravan to chase burn and blast the enemy as it is harassed and pinned down by chaff that you dont care if they get caught in the blast.
Not that I am not happy for more battles, but why no campaign stream or any other stream over the past few days?
The demons thong...?
10:46 "The fireglaveis, in combat... They are ok!" Literally better melee stats than most other factions best antilarge units
Aye, but at a chosen price point!
@@turinRTS true, true! They are more of a campaign unit, from what I saw in these replays, since there cost is not that much of an issue. Fully buffed, they anihilate everyone and everything
I think DElves are gonna be bane of Chorfs even more than Helves.
Blunderbusses don't deal fire damage
For sure the Fireborn were not worth it at all, you can get more use out of cheaper, faster units. Also halfway you could've mopped up all the nearly-wiped out CD units in the center using the Fireborn, but as you were thinking of other targets you kind of let them sit idle and that dragged out that battle longer that it could have (although fortunately the CD reinforcements were quite slow to reach there, anyway).
Reavers are also still garbage which you'd only get if you quickly need to cram a cheap unit in somewhere to turn the tide of that battle or if you want to try to distract your enemy with a cheap unit somewhere.
Shadow warriors also kinda meh by itself, but I suppose their skirmishing formation makes them less easy for CD to get rid of and the fact they can just move and shoot means you are going to get in much desired attrition on CD units. While they aren't good units, they are easily worth their money against CD.
I'd say what won you the game is A. you picked a lot of fast units so you were able to keep the initiative to resolve/fix battles you wanted to resolve/fix and B. since the core of CD units are on the slower side, it wasn't very smart of your opponent to overextend and split up his forces that early. CD are still Dwarfs so obviously they work best in one huge formation instead of being sent out individually. of course they get non-Dwarf units, but if the CD core cannot keep up with those units then even if those other units can make gains, you can quickly reverse that and pick them apart where it's needed. CD will obviously struggle against much speedier factions when they also have to worry about capturing points.
it's so cringe how all the TWW3 influencers falsely think the H in Drazhoath is silent, when it's not, and they're leading the entire community to mispronounce his name as a result. His name is Draz-ho-ath. Not Draz-oath. There's 3 syllables in his name. THREE. And an H sound.
also, it's chrace, as in shrace, not as in krace. yes, there are correct and incorrect pronunciations of these things. yes, the people who make total war often are guilty of mispronunciation, don't use them as a guide. I've heard multiple conflicting pronunciations of the same name in different CA videos.
I don't care nearly as much as you but I think Turin already pronounces drazhoath the way you want him to
@@N0ahface he definitely doesn't. that's why I said what I said. he clearly doesn't, in multiple videos, including this one.
Ah! A cunning linguist I see?
@@dome2919 that's what my wife tells me lol
Really hard to watch domination battles compared to land battles.. little skirmishes here and there over squares instead of one big clash.
Don't watch them then? I think they're far better than land battles which are over in 5 mins
I like watching MP games but only really play campaign. Why are high elves bad? They were top tier in 2
Kinda "left behind" I guess? They've got a similar problem to WE in that there's a lot of flashy and cool stuff but cost is gonna... "cost" you.
Turin, love you, buddy... but you gotta stop saying calvary.
I just can't be bothered with capture point videos, sorry you're great otherwise and I love your commentary
How long is it going to take for you guys to realize that you're not going to magically convince him to prioritize land battle content with this? If you want good land battle content, there are other great creators that do that exclusively. I'd recommend Human Boy YesYes and DahvPlays.
@@thepiousskeleton6046 it’s entirely his choice and he should do what makes him happy. All I’m saying is I will watch his blood bowl content and other stuff instead
@@davidevans6755 I think he gets that there is a small contingent of his audience that don't enjoy Dom battles by now. This has been going on pretty much since WH3's launch and it hasn't changed his content so what is the point?
@TheMacel66Yea, but it is 80~90% domination battles so he wouldn’t be watching much…
@@thepiousskeleton6046 I think it's like a "We are here" thing. "Horton hears a who" style. "Hey I'd appreciate it if we could get a (insert type) video sometime" might be a nicer way to phrase it, but I think that's the idea this fella is trying to get across.
I personally enjoy Dom (some skirmish matchups have been really interesting and watching ebb and flow has been cool when done masterfully)
@David Evans you might enjoy Turin's single capture point vids. He made a few a bit ago, promoting that mod as a compromise to create a form of land battle where people don't feel the need to implement and enforce rules.
SHORT?!?!
AHHH YES, I do like the High Elves having a positive here. For now anyway lol
They Chaos Dwarfs are strong for sure, but other factions being able to beat them is great