The Cass Review And The Truth About Trans Health Care
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- What does the Cass Review mean, what are the myths and realities about healthcare for trans people - and what happens next? Really honoured to be joined by Dr. Aidan Kelly, clinical director at Gender Plus, and journalist Freddy McConnell.
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The Josef Mengele persona suits you.
@@Fish_And_Chips_Dudea human being in a dress is still a human being
@@Fish_And_Chips_DudeA bloke in a dress is a transvestite. Different to transgender. Get educated on the social contract of gender.
Owen the comments here are not really about trans issues, they attack you because of your position on Israel's conduct.
Why? So you can just delete challenging comments? Everyone needs to read the Cass Review for themselves. Your house of sand is crumbling.
How is The Guardian doing on trans issues nowadays?
Opposed and has been since Alan Rusbridger moved on.
@@Coelacanth1 WHAT?! The Guardian hasn't published a peep against trans people and trans people were not even an issue when Rusbridger was there. You numpty!
You are a big reason why I stopped reading the guardian and paying a voluntary subscription.
Me too
me too!
Same here.
And me. He's so woke he's fallen asleep again.
@@marieorritt8115 🤣
Deregulation of the pharmaceutical industry sounds like some libertarian nightmare 😳😰
And yet it’s not the libertarians calling for this 🙄
@@itube027 Correct.
And nor, this time, is it the authoritarian right - although that has been the case in the past (and we all used to mock Iran for claiming it had no gay people...).
No, this was from the authoritarian left in the West - that demanded nobody be allowed to question the lack of scientific and intellectual rigour.
We're surrounded on all sides by incompetence right now.
The essential idea of libertarian and liberal values is that everything should be as unregeluated as possible, so that is not a nightmare, that is eventually where the liberal/liberterian "ship" heads to, perhaps with a few bumps, but the ultimate destiny.
@@KommuSoft "so that is not a nightmare" - Non sequitur. The fact that you want it doesn't make it not a nightmare. Without regulation of services, countless people will be irrevocably harmed. In my experience, libertarians don't give a toss about people being irrevocably harmed as long as it is isn't the state doing the harm, so maybe that doesn't bother you, but if you actually have a conscience it should bother you quite a lot.
@@omp199 : well it is funny that thee people get harmed with their conscent. In Belgium there was a documentary where a transgirl showed she had to take hormones to prevent osteoporosis, she is thus a pharma-customer for the rest of her life. The funny thing is, she changed here mind, but does not regret the surgery since she said it was necessary back then. So these people are victims, that funny enough fully support that. You have to admin, that i hilarious.
Why compare it to abortion? Abortion? Of all things?
In some countries the right to access safe abortions are being removed
I hate that I have been watching (and greatly appreciating) your coverage of Gaza for weeks now, but have still been constantly expecting the other shoe to drop, simply because of your accent and my awareness of the way that trans topics have been approached in the UK in recent years. Thank you for proving me wrong, sincerely.
Regarding the double-blind subject, our study of medicine has a long history of deeply abusive practices being used in order to confirm the efficacy of treatments and other efforts, and unfortunately laypeople tend to have an extremely limited knowledgebase on the methods that have been developed over the years, to create a more ethical medical field, and as a result will often cite this specific method en masse, because its the only thing they know about, even to the point of pressuring people who know better into demanding double-blinds in cases which the professionals know are not appropriate.
Very big same! I saw the thumbnail and was prepared to unsubcribe but after watching my heart is warmed
It is true that often, double-blind RCTs are not appropriate. I wouldn't demand an RCT on the effectiveness of parachutes. But, the problem with the quality of evidence in gender medicine is not just about the lack of double-blind RCTs, or any RCTs - overall, the studies are badly designed, study samples are small, and some of the recent studies with bigger datasets and better methodology don't seem to support previous findings.
@@ciastomarchewkowe7103 examples? Cause unless your talking about the "previous findings" referring to the supposed 80% detransition rate, none of the legitimate work I have seen, which has been actually looking at these topics, has been suggesting a recent shift in our assessment of outcomes. Do remember, I do not consider a survey of parents to be a legitimate study of trans people, it is only a study of parents of trans people, and their own ideas about things. I also do not consider work that was directly tied to previous DSM criteria, for a similar but not the same diagnosis, to be pertinent, given that the changes which were made with the DSM criteria have substantially narrowed the diagnostics.
@@Flemrora I mostly referred to the suicide rates and the recent finnish study (Ruuska 2024) showing no difference when controlled for psychiatric treatment, as well as seemingly no impact of gender affirming treatment.
Why are RCTs inappropriate for puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones?
It would be super funny if the Tories brought back conscription and everyone under 25 used this study to get out of serving.
Interesting point! ;) Of course, that says more about the Tories than anyone else.
My kids are like, 'I couldn't be drafted because...' and I'm like, nah, they are going to say 'We are totally inclusive now and if you can take a bullet for us, then you're in!' Could come true sooner than we think.
I don't think it would be funny at all if they brought back conscription and anyway the age of conscription has nothing to do with child development. Conscription isn't driven with much wellbeing in mind it is driven by the national existential imperative.
The trans person the BBC interviewed about his experience on Radio 4 News had to wait six years for an assessment and nine years for treatment to commence. No 'rush' there, actually the lack of access was his issue.
And? 90+% of people with dysphoria grow out of it by 25 if left alone.
@@-__Shadow__-Says who?
Surely the sheer number of people that must be on a 6 year waiting list shows you how many people are rushed into referral?
@@user-mk3rz6yu2h no, it's because they want to be sure
@@user-mk3rz6yu2hno. No that isn’t implied at all. What?
I've not read the Cass report but I did read Time To Think* and I was concerned about the implication made of diminished capacity in autistic people. It wasn't explicitly talking about individuals with issues around capacity but just generally implying that it is irresponsible to allow autistic people to make decisions regarding their own healthcare.
*Edited to correct book title from Buying Time to Time To Think. Two very different books.
Thank you for mentioning this! This is a huge issue extremely relevant to ROGD and hardly mentioned in mainstream media!
It's not about autonomy so much as the issue about influence.
@@hoopoe9629 relevant to a myth?
@@hoopoe9629 ROGD is anti-scientific nonsense designed to convert (which is impossible) or unalive trans youth.
@@nathanlevesque7812 eventually, I believe, the truth will be clear and obvious
Thank you once again for standing up for us. One of the only voices in the media who does. ❤
hear hear
If this video contains anything other than an apology and an admission that Owen got this wrong, then he cannot legitimately claim to be a person that respects evidence, and will be admitting he is an ideologue who values his ego over the safety of children.
The review is done. You were wrong.
I'm curious what exactly you think Owen got wrong? What do you think the report concluded? I'll tell you now that it isn't that trans people don't exist or that gender affirming healthcare should not be available to young people.
@@joshuaogle7367 they see what they want to see.
Thank you for doing this Owen. Your blanket coverage of Gaza while covering a very important issue was ignoring the deaths here in the UK caused by the Tories privatisation at all costs policy which is currently killing 250 people a week as they wait for hours for ambulances or months (years even!) for treatments. A privatisation policy which Labour & Wes Streeting wholeheartedly supports even though “recruiting the private sector to help NHS waiting lists” is nonsense as they use the same pool of staff & charge more for the simplest procedures (so they can make a profit for their shareholders). With the election looming we need to make restoring our socialist public not-for-profit NHS a key priority for voters & politicians alike. Or many more of us & our loved ones will die needlessly in agony.
Dr Hilary Cass is an expert paediatrician who has many years of expertise in this area. But don't worry folks, Owen Jones knows better.
No she is not, she is retired, this is a political move pushed by Christian anti-trans organizations in order to install a theocratic totalitarian regime by using trans kids as a consent to take away individual freedom of all of us, what that quack is doing is weaponizing the body against our soveeignty. She should be jailed. She is throwing out 100 evidences as low quality evidences by raising the standard for evidences that can not be met, if they did it would be a malpractice. This is purely political. You need to do better research on this, because there is a rteason Cass report has been laughed at across the whole globe by paedietricians.
Owen likely knows trans folk, which Cass likely does not. Makes a difference.
@@Leszek.Rzepecki This report is about children and the way they been let down. Nothing to do with knowing trans people.
@@Leszek.Rzepeckiyour evidence that Cass is unlikely to know trans people - is WHAT, exactly,?
@@Arabella868yeah, once a person retires they cease to be an expert. Of course they do.
Can anyone say exactly where in the Cass Review the authors "de facto raise adulthood to 25"? I have the full text and can't find anything of the kind.
@@lewreed1871 👍
Have you read all 400 pages?
@@samanthapatrick4345 No, but I've searched it quite carefully, especially the chapter on consent and competence, and can't find anything to suggest the authors want to raise adulthood to 25. Can you point me to the place where they do that?
@@bolldamm3966 Well until you've read the whole thing how do you know it's not there?
I didn't say it's not there. My original question was whether anyone could help me out. Does that bother you?
I'm not going to lie I've been in a bit of a state since the yesterday. I came out at around 15 and the process for me getting HRT was arduous. Counter to belief there are many barriers between young trans people and accessing healthcare, and they exist long before you step foot into a gender clinic. Keep in mind this was now about 15 years ago; the services i might have accessed as a girl are no longer available to people coming out today, its got harder not easier.
I didn't get any treatment until my early 20's. That is because of a process called RLE - I ended up living socially as female for many years until I got my physical transition needs met. During that time I was constantly expected to justify myself to anyone who asked. I had to demonstrate I was not some sort of fetishist to panels of male doctors, I had to prove I was mentally sound enough to consent to treatments that are routine all over the world, I had to show a willingness to be suitably demure and feminine and pretty enough to transition. It was a process that has left me with a frankly broken self image, forcing me to constantly self scrutinise in a way nobody else is expected to do in order to get their healthcare needs met.
I've been medically transitioning for a long time now having jumped through all those hoops. Fortunately puberty was light touch for me and I pass well now. But I still am painfully aware of all the ways my body masculinised in the years between coming out and accessing HRT. Its like looking in the mirror and seeing scars measured in millimetres of bone. Except the scars are invisible to everyone. In fact all of this is invisible to people; people generally see just an ordinary woman and do not understand the amount of medical mistreatment I endured to get to this point. To me those features that changed because I could not access puberty blocking medication as a girl are not simply physical signifiers of testosterone fuelled development, they're a reminder of how I was let down by parents, institutions, doctors. And how I was thrown into a medical system designed to break people so that only those who suffer the most can access care. I wear all that on my body.
I am extremely bleak feeling to think how many young people are already enduring that, and moreover how much more brutal things are going to get for people going forward. I am thinking of 15-year-old-me and how she deserved better, and how as time goes on things get worse.
And I am so, so terrified of the day when my ability to access the care I went through such much to get is withdrawn. Because I think there's a very real chance that in the next few governments (assuming they actually last a full term, this time) trans healthcare across the board will become near inaccessible. I've not been able to do anything today, I've just been feeling this huge weight on my shoulders. Thinking about how I waited for so long, and how in some ways I am still waiting for some transition related healthcare services 15 years later, only to find the society I live in so eager to take it all away again. This stuff saved my life. I'm exhausted. And I am so frightened about how far this flavour of social conservativism might go in brutalising us.
I am making plans to leave the UK asap and advising any trans person who will hear it to try to do the same, this country is not a hospitable place for women like me.
Try Thailand, oddly very conservative AND more welcoming. Though tr@nz folk there still have their own issues, it is NOT anything like it is here in the UK.
I wish I had some inspirational quote or safe place to recommend, but I dont, all I have is the knowledge that you are not alone, and the hope that together we can find our way to a better world for all of us. Best of luck, wherever the path takes you, and I hope it treats you better than now, and our past.
Women standing up for our s*x based rights is not in turn creating an inhospitable place for "women like you".
I live in rural USA and our stories are almost identical. I've been feeling the same way about everything too and honestly you said a lot of what my brain hasn't been able to think through and process. Thank you, I feel a lot less alone right now.
@@KL-kn4lz How do you feel about the very real possibility of people taking their own lives for the misery being caused?
This is a horrible healthcare situation for all. Thank you for speaking out.
Have you actually read the Cass Review? One of the main points is that there is a lack of evidence based treatment. So yes, you are right, it's a horrible healthcare situation.
Of course there's a lack of evidence when you discount the majority of the evidence. I could make an effective argument against the existence of the sun if I recorded all my data from a windowless basement
@@KL-kn4lz Yeah it turns out of you just ignore 98% of the evidence then there just isn't that much evidence, who would have thought
@@explosivempire Please direct me to this 98% of evidence which has been ignored. Seriously, where/what is it?
@@KL-kn4lz the 101 studies in the report that the authors decided to dismiss showing the effectiveness of gender affirming care
Aiden Kelly was quite thoughtful, but his whole career in medicalisation of trans identity. He has a financial interest in this.
Freddy was incoherent.
Aidan Kelly has just opened a private gender clinic. Damn right he has a financial interest and if a doctor's primary interest is in the care of his patients, that would be a conflict of interest. Jones and McConnell have exposed themselves as pitifully ill-informed, particularly as journalists and especially since Cass has not revealed anything we didn't already know or recommended anything new. It's just a shame it took the weight and scale of her review to get these people to pay attention.
Why do you think it is appropriate to conduct medical experiments on minors? If the evidence is inconclusive then err on the side of caution. You don't provide any reasonable criticisms nor evidence to support your criticisms.
And what do you know, my detailed reply going into why the scientific evidence very much isn't "inconclusive" has been removed by CZcams's haphazard algorithms. Yet it's always transphobes with their victim complex, complaining that their comments are being removed by CZcams because of so called "stifling of free speech"... sheesh.
@@Angelic_Storm A lot of "trans" identified people are literally homophobic!!! A homosexual male, a male with same-sex attraction, will deny being gay under the guise of "identifying" as a "trans woman" claiming their attraction to males is now somehow heterosexual. How is that NOT homophobic??? How can you claim homosexual males denying their own homosexuality is progress or in any way similar to the struggles of the gay movement???
Also, funny how you lot are perfectly fine with straight males appropriating the gay label - a male, attracted exclusviely to females, ie the opposite sex, is heterosexual, yet you have males "identifying" as "trans women" claiming they are "lesbians" when they are interested in females - how is that progress??? How is trying to redefine sexual orientation and what sexual attraction means, a positive thing???
Some trans teens do awful things to themselves, however private companies will always look to make profit. It’s a very complex situation that goes way beyond experimenting on children.
"Experiments". I don't think you know what that word means.
@@NigelFartzirage That is why we need effective, socialised medicine without a profit motive, and why involving private companies in the NHS is, and always has been, a terrible idea.
Here in Qc, a 'reporter' for the state media went to a *private* clinic to inquire about receiving trans healthcare, then raised the alarm about how the service was too fast.
A similar thing happened here in the UK a couple of years ago; a journalist went private, lied about being trans and wrote a piece saying how it was too fast. Funnily enough, I saw the exact same psychiatrist who diagnosed me a few months later haha
Dufuq is too fast]? Also prove it.
@@absolutelycitron1580 Most people change their mind when they grow more mature.
@matthewbrady1562 That is an often repeated lie, the vast majority of people(98-99%) who transition remain transitioned and happy with their choice to transition.
@@teranelson826 Were did you get that figure ?
Why is it so hard to admit you were mistaken about trans health care for children?
There is a zero percent chance you've read even a page of that review because otherwise this "you were mistaken about this" nonsense wouldn't even be bothered as an argument.
Because rabble rousing is part of his business model.
@@scruffopone3989 You're missing the point. It's not about me not having read the Cass Review (I bet you haven't read it either). It's about Owen Jones not wanting to accept the findings of the NHS' Independent Review Committee because the findings are contrary to his ideological beliefs. That's unfortunate, because it can be reasonably assumed that the Independent Review Committee based its findings on science rather than ideology. The content of its 400-page report is based on 4 years' scientific review of the way the UK health care system has been treating children with gender dysphoria. It's the most comprehensive study about gender dysphoria among children ever done. Journalists are no medical experts. A non-expert should change his mind about a given topic if a committee of independent experts proves him wrong. But I suppose it takes introspection and modesty to admit you got it wrong.
And he supports Hamas. What a foolish man.
Because he isn't. If you actually paid attention, you'd know the report rejected non double blind randomised control studies showing the benefits, that you cannot do these studies in paediatrics, that they are never usually required, that Cass included non double blind randomised control studies with huge errors that went against the consensus, that medical organisations, experts, and studies, are generally in agreement that affirmation is evidence based and works, that other countries disagree with the findings of this joke of a review...
Why is it so hard to stop being a bigoted cultist and accept what the actual science shows?
Thanks for a really informative video again with really insightful interviews, it makes a big difference as a young trans person to see this stuff even from an independent broadcaster like yourself regularly. I did I guess know a lot of what they had to say already about the broader issue, but I needed some actually useful analysis on the report itself which is not going to come from the BBC and certainly not Murdoch's lot. I hope things do get better, especially on the healthcare front for both the adult and children's service, from personal experience in Scotland, a lot of practitioners in the system are doing what they can, but as always comes down to staffing and ultimately resources. As some feedback, I have noticed in some of your monologued videos you can repeat yourself a lot and maybe it's because I know some of the information already that it sometimes bothers me. I do really think you shine as an interviewer especially when you can find people who don't get asked as often as they should and have a dialogue, and there the repeating of points helps get back to the topic at hand and answer a particular question if a guest goes on a tangent. But overall great vid!
A woman, is an adult human female, it is not an "identity" or a feeling, dress, attitude etc., that whole line of thinking is regressive in the extreme. Claiming there is some "essence" to "womanhood" that also males can access, but the reality is that women do not have to look or act any certain way, or act out some ludicrously sexist idea of the “social role of a woman”, all females who reach adulthood are women regardless of how they feel or look, and the one thing they ALL have in common, the one experience they ALL share, is that they are FEMALE, they do not have to "identify" as anything, they physically ARE women because they are female.
Why should MALES be allowed access to SINGLE-SEX spaces reserved for FEMALES based on their "gender identity"? If sex and gender are separate, then a male announcing his "gender identity" is "trans woman" does nothing to change their sex, they are still MALE - so why should they be afforded rights reserved for the opposite SEX? The movement is regressively sexist, and misogynistic.
Why do you believe females do not deserve any spaces free of males? What is hateful about upholding female sex-based rights that were fought long and hard for?
Believing sexist stereotypes define men and women, instead of their biological sex, is unquestionably sexist to the core, because you are saying men and women are not actually free to behave however they want but need to conform to these sexist stereotypes in order to be men or women - if you say no they don't have to act any sort of way as a man or woman, and being a man or woman has nothing to do with biology - then what are you describing by calling someone a man or woman? If you think it doesn't describe biology, and doesn't describe anything about their looks or behaviour, then what on earth are you basing defining anyone as a man or woman on??? Why would a man need to become a "trans woman" in order to be their "authentic selves", why can't they just be a very feminine man and dress/act however they want?
If trans ideology isn't sexist, then why would a man ever need to "transition" if either sex is completely free to act however they want? How can you claim to be opposing sexism when the whole basis for anyone feeling the need to transition, literally is sexism?
How is gender identity" any different from what sexist stereotypes a person feels drawn to? Or simply their PERSONALITY? And, if sex and gender are separate, then why should "transitioning gender" allow MALES into FEMALE-ONLY spaces, they never changed, nor can they change, their sex. How is removing the rights of females to single-sex spaces progressive? How is centering male feelings over female rights "feminist"?
You should read the report itself, rather than seeking out "analysis" that tells you what you want to hear. For what it's worth, on the basis of this video and having gone over the report myself, Owen Jones hasn't read it. McConnell hasn't understood it. What it contains seems to have taken McConnell by complete surprise, presumably because like you, McConnell has opted to live in an echo chamber on this, dismissing everyone who has been trying to raise concerns as bigots and fascists and transphobes and blah. Aidan Kelly, as has been amply pointed out in these comments, has a whopping great conflict of interest because he runs a private clinic which relies on 'gender-affirming care' in order to make money. To you, as a young trans person, I can only say I'm sorry you've been so badly let down and misled, not least by Owen Jones here. I wish you all the best for the future.
@@lewreed1871 you’ve not read the report either or at least you’ve not understood it. You’ve cherry picked and twisted parts to fit your narrative.
@@NigelFartzirage "you’ve not read the report either or at least you’ve not understood it."
Straight back at you. It shows.
I don't know enough to say whether the Cass report is solid or not and agree that we should take care. A positive, small consolation though it might be, we now have two quite different approaches working here and in Europe. This should give us better data on what works best and what does not. It's hardly surprising that politicians grab at this as a fig-leaf to cover their own lack of knowledge or concern.
What puzzles me is that opponents of trans care aren't interested in what trans people have to say about it. They're the ones with the experience, they've gone through it, yet apparently, they don't matter. The low rates of de-transitioning, which is most likely caused by prejudice among family and community, suggest that the process isn't invalid. Still, care needs to be taken in each case. Opposing transition is a waste of lives.
@@Leszek.Rzepeckiall we want is for you to keep your hands off minors. You can do exactly what you want otherwise. But for some reason you are literally determined to get kids involved, even though you KNOW kids as a whole get confused and almost all grow out of it.
@@Leszek.RzepeckiWhat puzzles me is how little interest those in favour of transitioning children put into the actual medical research.
There are zero clinical trials supporting any of this.
The very basis of the "affirmative care" approach is that post-op trans ppl have terrible outcomes. But none of you guys have ever read the Dutch protocol study. Red flags everywhere. The Tavistock tried to repeat the experiment and got NEGATIVE results.
@@Leszek.Rzepecki Yes I agree. The disregarding of the bulk of data that we have is worrisome, but again, I'm no statistician.
@@Leszek.Rzepeckihave you read the report? There was endless consultation with trans ppl.
I don’t understand what you mean by this comment… it’s like you’re saying..
“If we look at objective data there is no evidence for these treatment for minors but bc I, anecdotally, feel transition helped me… my personal subjective experience should override a systematic review of the evidence.”
I mean did you even transition as a child?
It’s like there’s a real inability to perspective shift for many in the trans community
Sorry, so if I am undersanding this correctly, if only 1% of people treated detransition, this would mean the success rate for treatment is 99%!!! In which other area of medicine is it ever so high?? What better evidence that the treatment works!!!!
exactly
What is the pathway to detransition and how would it be recorded?
Detransition does not require medical intervention, most just blend back into their original form, apart from the mutilations and amputations.
Many clinics didn't follow up on patient care so the real rate of detransitioning cannot be know. Stop spreading lies.
@@KL-kn4lz Which clinics, for the one I attended conducts annual follow ups
@@karl34mmutilation and amputation are very strong and loaded words for precise operations developed for over a century
I like how this video gets significantly less views than the other Palestine related topics
I think it's just a further illustration of how most of the general public doesn't care much about the trans issue. Despite the government and the right wing media in this country trying to paint it as an important national issue of grave importance on a par with the NHS falling apart, the cost of living crisis, and the heightening tensions in the world caused by war and national conflict.
@@Melanie-cl7cm umm yea... It's because the middle east war is a phenomenon seen from all around the globe, unlike gender issues
Thank you for continuing to support trans people Owen, especially now when hatred against the trans community is so loud and aggressive. 🏳️⚧️
Will you debate with Andrew Doyle
Yes please
@@magpiemorris8844 Doyle wouldn't lower his standards. How do you debate a liar?
@@markrussell3428 all the better to have the debate I reckon. If someone is fibbing they need calling out. I'd love to see Owen debate Douglas Murray too
@@magpiemorris8844 Come on - that's like like having a 4 year old debating someone with a PhD. You get the same result: Owen rolling on the floor bawling.
@@markrussell3428 you're not wrong XD. It might humble OJ and change the minds of some of his followers, but I know Owen has actively avoided debating Douglas Murray sadly
What is going on in the UK???
Common sense is finally starting to prevail? The once-captured organizations and politicians are backpedaling? The grown-ups are beginning to take charge again?
@@slacktoryrecords4193 no, Britain is going full on post Weimar Republic. In both language and action.
Marked to listen to this carefully when I have time.
It's not exactly challenging. It's a grifter and two deliberately clueless ideologues trying to pretend there's nothing to see here.
There is no excuse for transphobia but people are being really free and easy with their definitions of it these days. the statistics on many of these topics simply do not agree with your viewpoints. Until some sort of middle ground can be achieved this argument will continue because as far as i can see both sides are taking extreme views rather than reasonable ones. Many of the people who sit in the middle and have always had a live and let live attitude are drifting towards negativity and hate not because they're being enticed but because they're being driven.
thank you for talking on this
I’m sorry for my society screwing up, so many peoples lives through ignorance
Medical review by the NHS of questionable science is bad... 🤔
I agree. Religion will be rightfully eradicated by 2100.
It is actually religion that has launched this moral panic, the same religion that wishes to turn the USA into a theocracy
@@cornishsea Questionable review of the NHS by people with an anti-trans agenda? Absolutely that is bad.
@@cornishsea questionable on a political basis, which should be irrelevant
What is the Study of the german speaking countries called?
There's something much more sinister going on when you debunk the whole review.. Especially in regard to the puberty blocker bans for under 18s (now available in a place near you in Scotland too)
He's a shill puppet.
It is impossible to be born in the wrong body. I wish the people who want to help children with gender dysphoria would ACTUALLY follow the science.
How does this comment have upvotes? Gender dysphoria is a very real, well-documented phenomenon.
The media would have you think that doctors hand out puberty blockers like skittles when that's simply not the case.
@@124085 Mental problems are NOT to be treated with physical alterations to the body - it is LAUGHABLE that all you "activists" and "allies" act as if such a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes proper psychological help would be some sort of standard of care - you don't actually know anything, or understand anything, but are merely parroting what you've heard which resonates with you at an emotional level.
No one can be "born in the wrong body", our brains ARE our body just as much as any other part of it. We are the sex we are, regardless of what our personal relationship is with the sexist stereotypes in society. "Trans" ideology, is regressive and sexist, as there is no "correct way" of being a boy or girl, man or woman, all those terms do is indicate sex and stage of maturity - decoupling sex and gender and trying to make gender into this ludicrous concoction of personality and sexist stereotypes is beyond regressive - it actively harms people who buy into it - the idea that there is something wrong with a kid's body that needs to be chemically altered because they believe living up to sexist stereotypes is some real measure of whether they are a boy or a girl (and man or woman for adults obviously), is insanity!!!
I have asked hundreds of "activists" and "allies" to explain what they are measuring themselves against to determine that they have a need to transition - NOT ONE person has been able to articulate what that is - not one person is able to distance themselves sufficiently to realise that THEY are the ones with a regressively sexist idea of what it means to be a boy/girl or man/woman and that that is the issue causing all the problems - their own misunderstanding and severely limited perspective/sexist misunderstanding of what sexist stereotypes/"gender norms" actually entail - they are not rules, they are not real boundaries, they are regressive ideas and generalisations - no one needs to live up to any such utter nonsense or feel comfortable with those stereotypes to be a boy/girl/man/woman - all those terms represent, and all they should represent, is sex and stage of maturity - by creating this whole "gender identity" nonsense, THAT IS WHAT CAUSES ALL THE DISTRESS, THIS FABRICATION OF A FRAMEWORK WHICH DISTORTS REALITY!!!
No one - NO ONE - in the movement has been able to explain or articulate what this supposed "womanly essence" or "man essence" is that they feel/know/need to transition to to represent etc. actually is - yet you all actively believe in it and push for it to be accepted!!! That is ludicrous!!!
@@ambientjohnny we push for it to be accepted because not accepting it is largely what causes gender dysphoria.
@@NigelFartzirage No, what causes that is the person's own misunderstanding/faulty framework - you lot are actively encouraging a harmful perspective - if you could step back you would realise that, but part of the problem here is the absolute refusal of your side to even consider that they could be wrong about something. The "trans" understanding of the issue is so low resolution, yet everyone involved is convinced they are thinking about it deeper than others - if only you could disconnect from the naive smugness the blatant flaws and limitations of all "trans" ideas would become apparent.
I have been so concerned by the one sided reporting (all about GIDS not protecting childrens interests) in the guardian that's it is refreshing to hear from knowledgeable people discussing the report and its blind spots. Why is the Guardian so keen to avoid balance on this issue and not discuss there real issues with gender services?
It seems that everyones life is a challenge in one way or another
I find people like Diana cooper on CZcams talking about the new five dimensional age and other things
Uplifting and inspirational in this life
Lots of love everyone Colin
Owen love colin
Where is the evidence that detransition is extremely rare? How is this data being reliably collected?
It isn’t.
@@slacktoryrecords4193 exactly. This sudden explosion of experimental treatments for gender dysphoria is an obscene exploitation of our most vulnerable young people, most of whom have multiple mental health diagnoses, and even disabilities, by big pharma and medical conglomerates. Owen has done excellent work on Gaza but is way off the mark here.
It's not hard to find the data on this. A little research tells me that "in the UK a survey of 3398 attendees of a gender identity clinic found that just sixteen - about 0.47% - experienced transition-related regret. Of these, even fewer went on to actually detransition and become detransitioners." - from a 2019 EPATH conference. And there are plenty other studies with some different numbers, but all quite low. Highest I saw was 8% from a study in the US, but this was cited as being mostly due to financial and social pressures.
Do some research of your own before criticising the stats.
@@RelativelySaneStudio what percentage of attendees drop off the radar and are thus not included in the numbers?
@@hoopoe9629 idk look it up yourself if you're that interested.
What we never discuss is the fact that every single type of treatment and surgery and medication has complications. We don't say well because some people regret having knee surgery then knee surgery should be illegal. We just warn people about all the potential risks and allow you and YOUR DOCTOR to make that decision. Trans healthcare should be no different.
Also I might add about puberty blockers, blockers are already given to children all the time who experience early puberty. I do not think its a stretch to say we should allow it for trans kids also, given the evidence suggests its overwhelmingly positive on the well being on trans people.
Well said, for trans children it can be a matter of life and death. We have done a psychological approach since the 1970's, and it did not work, because a physiological condition/handicap can not be treated psychologically. Trans people are born in the body of the opposite sex due to the hormonal exposure in the womb.
I've been through bottom surgery (vaginoplasty) and ongoing hormone treatment. At every stage, clinicians took extreme care to warn me about the risks, and these decisions are indeed taken jointly. No matter who you are, no matter what your age, you cannot unilaterally decide to go on hormones or have surgery. I'm 50 and I started my transition when I was 46. I've seen four psychologists as part of my care (one private, three on the NHS) and my surgical pathway involved several discussions of the possible complications. In the case of puberty blockers, the parents would obviously be involved as well as this care happens under the age of 16, and my understanding is that the effects of puberty blockers are virtually completely reversible - their on-label use is to treat precocious puberty and they are simply used to delay puberty until an appropriate age is reached in that case. So I don't think trans healthcare is in any way different from any other form of healthcare. I have a feeling that I was better informed of the risks than I would have been had I needed a knee replacement.
These comments are extremely concerning. I see you continue to ignore the CASS review findings. This is why we need laws to protect children in the UK from people that continue to push the Trans ideology. Defund Stonewall.
@@Holder4567the only thing concerning is the nhs caving to bigotry from people like you. Get out of my mentions.
@@robynroxBless you and hope you continue to receive the care you need. I'm not from Britain but I follow the situation in your country closely.
It's time to start naming names of the people who supported this . . . the BBC, Channel 4, the Guardian, Owen Jones, all Graham Linehan's old friends such as Graham Norton, Stewart Lee and more.
My thoughts exactly!
Stewart Lee was such a disappointment
The only journalist I've found all day that seems to actually understand the extend of transphobia. That means a lot right now. Thank you
We are all human. Equality for all
He’s just a trans rights activist. Of course he’s going to say everything you want to hear.
That's what the report was saying you medically transitioned children under the fear of "transphobia" that's it the damning out come they're getting at
I don’t understand that those who profess acceptance go to these lengths to change people’s biology instead of helping such ones with their own acceptance.
On a pragmatic note, we all know how this ended in 80s for us gay people. We didn’t go anywhere and trans people won’t either so the quicker bigots learn this the quicker society will move forward on this topic. Because there is no alternative, we are not going anywhere.
@@Fish_And_Chips_Dude trans community is not lobby and they are not going to disappear because of your gay friend
@@Fish_And_Chips_Dudethe majority of LGB people are beginning to realise the threat posed by this dangerous cult to LGB people.
@@Fish_And_Chips_Dude Your gay friend doesn't know Stonewall history, ya know, the event that lead to homosexual acceptance amongst the general public.
@@briankendall2290 A majority you say, do you have any proof of that or are you one of those that says ' most' to hide the fact you really don't know but would like to promote your own agenda?
@@jaimegonzalezrosa9463 the difference being gays didn’t require a medical diagnosis to take experimental medicine or amputate body parts
Owen I have never commented on a CZcams video before, but I simply cannot sit back and watch you spread misinformation about what the Cass Review has concluded after 4 years of research.
You and your guests quote the very low figure of 1% detransition rate, but this is based on very old studies. Cass discusses detransition rates in the report, and as you will have read it, you will be aware that the figure is unknown (mainly to clinics refusing to share follow up data).
The points below, directly taken from the Cass review, suggest that detransition rates are likely to increase. Many suspect we will see an explosion in detransition rates - does this not concern you? How confident are you to hide behind your 1% statistic. Do you even know where that number comes from?
Page 33. Point 87.
“The percentage of people treated with hormones who subsequently detransition remains unknown due to the lack of long-term follow-up studies, although there is suggestion that numbers are increasing. “
Page 188. Point 15.5
“Estimates of the percentage of individuals who embark on a medical pathway and subsequently have regrets or detransition are hard to determine from GDC clinic data alone.
There are several reasons for this:
* those who do detransition may not choose to return to the gender clinic and are hence lost to follow-up
* the Review has heard from a number of clinicians working in adult gender services that the time to detransition ranges from 5-10 years, so follow-up intervals on studies on medical treatment are too short to capture this
* the inflection point for the increase in presentations to gender services for children and young people was 2014, so even studies with longer follow-up intervals will not capture the outcomes of this more recent cohort.
In addition to your misreporting the detransition rates, I also noticed that you confidently commented on reasons for detransition.
On page 189 Cass presents the self reported reasons for detransitioning. In your video Owen, you state that “transphobia” is one of the main reasons why people detransition. Cass’s review does not find this to be the case.
10% of respondents did report “discrimination” as a reason, which could include transphobia. However, the overwhelming main factor given as a reason for detransition is “realised that my gender dysphoria is related to other issues” with 70% of respondents reporting this.
The next two biggest reasons were “health concerns” (62%) and “transition did not help with my dysphoria” (50%).
Do you not understand how your analysis of the Cass Review is flawed? You have studied at Oxford, written a number of books and worked as a journalist for many years. I therefore have to conclude that your misrepresentation of information is not due to a lack of understanding or critical thinking, but instead due to you being so entrenched in an ideology that you now have to preform mental gymnastics to contort your thought processes until the evidence matches your delusion.
Surely you can’t keep this up for much longer?
Well said!
There is no evidence that there is a serious risk of detransition caused by anything other than transphobic hostility by society. Denying people care because of a hypothetical dissatisfaction is very silly indeed.
Well said indeed!
@@PlatinumAltaria A parrot. Except parrots are less predictable. These canards don't wash any more. And fewer people by the day have any fucks left to give because they're realising they've been conned.
@@lewreed1871 Why is it so hard for you to just have empathy?
Appreciate hearing all the arguments, counter arguments, and counter-counter-arguments. Perhaps the difference between the need for high quality research for the safety of hormone treatment for gender dysphoria (whatever forms that may take) and the need for high quality research for the safety of morning sickness medication is the (I suspect) relatively higher level of contention and disagreements for the gender dysphoria treatments than for the morning sickness treatments. The more contention and disagreements, the more the need for research for rapprochement to settle the debates
Great analysis of the Cass report and bonus cat report
Thank you so much for this, Owen. It's somewhat taken me by surprise how anxious these developments have made me, despite not affecting me directly (yet! I share Freddie's trepidation about an adult services review). Watching this has made me feel at least a little better. It means a lot having people like you in our corner, and you're right, we're not going anywhere, it's too late to stuff us back in the box now. Sooner or later, we will win!
Hi owen can u do us a favor and make a single combined video about trans people healthcare in gaza and hamas run health system under the shifa hospital ?
Thank you, Owen. No one speaks for us and this matters so much.
You have more allies than the media would like to admit. This hate fever has come from the USA
✊️✊️✊️
You have more allies than yt or other media would like to acknowledge. 🫶✊️
@@allmodcons2274 I hope so, it looks pretty bleak rn. Thank you 🙏
@SlashRaven008 Love and virtual hugs. Cis gender 60yr old feminist. I embrace all allies to my cause chuck. Too much hate and fear, much at the wrong targets x
Support is great but we need to hear it in the places where it is allowed, for silence leads us to believe everyone is against us and that is, you must agree a dangerous belief to adopt.
Freddy saying morning sickness meds are safe smh 🙄
“Young people” ?
Do you mean CHILDREN Owen???
Not necessarily? I’m an American while Owen is British, so maybe it’s a regional thing, but I’ve always taken “young people” to refer to anyone who’s young. It could mean children, but teens, adolescents, and young adults are also included in the term. So I’m assuming that’s the age group he’s talking about, not just children exclusively.
@@kyleinthejar6829 The Cass Review dealt with youth gender services, generally people 16 and under. Children. Wherever you are.
25:26 THEYRE ALL DOING IT. she actually slips up here and corrects herself. They must have agreed on saying young people instead of “children” at one of their alphabet illuminati conventions
Not all young people are kids. Though he does refer to 'kids' and 'children' at times. Maybe you should have actually watched it before commenting.
@@stefrost4029 They're discussing the Cass Review, right? The Cass Review into *youth* gender services, right? 'Youth' means children and young people, no?
What part of this do you have a problem with? The majority of people seen by those services were aged 16 and under. Children. Correct?
Whatever of the video, have you read the review?
Please have detransitioners on for interviews. They're out there and they're speaking out.
They're a loud % of the population. The rate we know is 1% the other 99% live happy, fulfilled lives. End of.
Sending love to ALL Trans people. It is so distressing to see what is happening. Especially the hate from the narcissistic author of badly written books.
Yes...she who must not be named seems incredibly bitter about people who just want to exist... really not asking for much, but millionaires/billionaires think trans people having human rights is a step too far.
@@craftinghome How is demanding the erasure of all female-only spaces, activities, services and legal standing "not asking for much"????? Every single "trans woman" is MALE.
Coming from someone who never published a book and never had movies that were extremely popular come from those books.
@@-__Shadow__- well, this is an incredibly stupid take. You're saying that unless I have had movies made from books I wrote, I cannot have opinions. Think about what you're saying and realise how incredibly stupid that is. Defend the little NPD if you wish, but do it coherently. Otherwise keep your hate to yourself.
@@saturninebear 2023 Harry Potter game sold 22 million copies. One of the most bought games in 2023. Harry Potter's first book sold over 200 million copies. That's not including the series as a whole. That is the fact. Harry Potter whether you like it or not is popular. Your take is bad, because if it was right, the facts would be in line with your poor opinion.
When the title of your video includes the word "truth" you should try telling it. I know you folks like to change the meaning of words but...
"Truth" has taken a terrible drubbing in their hands. Thankfully it's not easy to beat. It's been slow to come out of its corner on this, but finally, we have something like a fair fight and we're not limited to twelve rounds.
It was very surprising that seven out of eight NHS GIDS clinics refused to provide patient outcomes data to Cass despite being told to do so by the Government. Why wouldn't they want to contribute?
To protect the medical confidentiality of patients, who have not consented to having their records shared with an individual (Cass) known for her ties to anti-trans organisations and panels.
@@Finn-gs9dx It's far more surprising (or not, when you realise Cass was far from a neutral on this issue before conducting her report) that the report deliberately excluded 98% of studies related to affirming care, as they showed the positive impacts of that care on the young people recieving it. The report isn't peer reviewed, and it did not include any trans health experts or clinicians experienced in providing gender affirming care in its decision-making, conclusions, or findings. On the other hand though, a number of people involved in the review and it's advisory group, previously advocated for bans on gender affirming care in the US. And that's just SOME of the huge issues with this report
@@Finn-gs9dx To protect confidentiality? That's rubbish. Are you in denial? Naive? Stupid, or what? They didn't want Cass to be able to trace the clinical progress of individuals discharged by Gids to adult services, thus giving a clear picture of the outcomes of people who underwent the entire gamut of the gender-affirming approach from first appointment at Gids to final discharge. They actively thwarted her attempts to complete that picture, despite being ordered to make those disclosures by a government minister. It's got nothing to do with confidentiality -- such information sharing is routine within the NHS -- and looks a hell of a lot like an attempted cover-up. Whatever it is, it's unprecedented, and they will now be formally ordered to release that information to whoever takes up the baton from Cass to investigate the provision of care for adults.
@@Finn-gs9dx One can anonymise data easily. We do it all the time in medical research.
@@Finn-gs9dx Rubbish...names could haveBEEN DELETED.
I was also concerned about the way they described neurodivergence, particularly autism. It relied on stereotypes. We deserve bodily autonomy as neurodivergent people, and we’re much more diverse in terms of gender and sexuality- but so what? Also suggesting we don’t mature until 25 is ridiculous. Autism is a vast spectrum. I’m concerned this will be used to deny gender affirming care, when decisions should always be made on an individual basis.
@@xelix5358 I’m not arguing against a holistic approach at all. All kids need to be assessed individually, but the review suggested that autistic kids don’t know their own minds and bodies and regurgitated autistic stereotypes.
@@salsapixie Children as an entire group don’t know their own mind which is why they cannot consent, to sex or sexual mutilation. Being autistic just adds to the problem and is one of the reasons they latch onto this abusive nonsense.
@@salsapixie The report accurately flags the so-called 'child-led' approach as a problem. The uncritical assumption that the chlld always knows best was a huge failure across all child groups.
All children referred to gender clinics should be assessed for autism and all children referred to autism clinics should be assessed for gender divergence. If they have both then they should receive care for both equally, not with conditions attached. Autism is never an excuse to delay or withhold gender care, that's disgusting. It's long been known there's a strong correlation between autism and gender (and sexuality) variance. Autism doesn't 'cause' gender variance - the reasons for the link are likely multi-factorial. But it doesn't matter. An autistic person can be gender divergent, or gay - end of. They are just as entitled to be trans as anyone else. Autism isn't curable so they're gonna be waiting a long time for things to change! Next they'll be suggesting people can't be gay if they have autism or can't be depressed if they have autism. Things can coexist quite happily. This 'looking for something to blame' is so damned transparently transphobic.
The human brain doesn't fully develop until mid 20s. It's not specifically targeting people on the spectrum
(First half so far)
Driver's license, military service and suffrage also delayed to age 25? It's infantilizing.
NHS is just not providing reasonable service. To anyone.
I've heard personal trans stories, both ways, in Israel. There seem to be brakes within the system. One is age and life experience. Another is a period of psychiatric counseling and hormonal therapy before surgery, when the patient can say "It's not what I really want."
Every day I get loads of transphobic clips on my CZcams tasters menu. People work themselves into a frenzy over nothing.
And actually thats how it works here too, there are more patronising breaks on us receiving care than there is assistance. Trans people know who they are, they deserve help, and if they realise who they are young enough, they deserve a chance to pause puberty to make transition easier *if* they choose to go through with it.
@@queenvagabond8787 Yep, I knew who I was from the early ages, but alas, because of one family member, I had to hide it. Only in 2018/19 I realised I needed to do something and then the referral getting through in April 2021. Still waiting because they're dealing with patients referred in late 2018 to early 2019. It's too late for me to revert the catastrophic changes now, because changes have already occurred. and I still feel the same way I did back when I was really young. So, to those people that say "you'll grow out of it" it's false. It makes me extremely mad that there's even people out there who push the "you're not fully developed yet" and "you'll grow out of it" things have absolutely no idea what they're truly talking about.
Society ; Be your best self
Society ; No not like that.
Yes, be your best self.
Your lot: Remove healthy body parts, sterilise youngsters, create life-long physical health conditions and life-long medical patients (kerching!), long term little-to-no improvement in poor mental health, confirm disassociation oh and not forgetting anorgasmia and so much more! GTFO. The world is waking up.
Stay away from the kids
If 'being your best self" means: being an amoral, egotistic hypocrite...then, no. Your rights end when the rights of others begin.
@@Mr.JoeBangles The problem is that your (failed) understanding of objective, material reality, is extremely rigid, lacking the required neural plasticity to integrate newer and more complex details into your previously 'basic' or 'rudimentary' knowledge.
@@vre7474 Every accusation is a self report. statistics prove child predators are usually trusted members of the family or social groups not random trans women.
Do humans have a right to go through puberty and mature into adulthood?
Both mentally and physically?
Not in Owen’s world!
Do people have a right to pause puberty to think about if thats what they want? Going through puberty was a hell for me, I would've done anything to stop it, but in the 90s there was almost no way to receive that treatment if you didn't have the language and the cultural awareness to explain what was wrong. Being forced through an unwanted puberty is cruel and unusual punishment for trans people.
Trans people do go through puberty when given hormones. Also, there's a big difference between having the right to do something and being forced to do something. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
@@SisterAbdullahX Thats not true, there is very little evidence to suggest that there is any permanent damage.
There is *some* evidence that there is perhaps a little loss in bone density for *extended* use of blockers without begining HRT, but I do agree there should be more research done.
I wish I had the chance, when I first started experiencing puberty at age 15, that I could've stopped it. I wanted it stopped at the time, and if it had been, it would've saved me a lot of bigotry and hatred in my adult life.
Nobody is forcing anyone to stop going through puberty, it's about giving people a choice.
Gaslighting
If I want to get tattoos all over my face, nobody can legally prevent me from doing it in case I change my mind. Do I need a 7 year wait list, to get a psychiatric evaluation, and to be signed off by 2 doctors to get a vasectomy?
Are you a child?
@@slacktoryrecords4193 Irrelevant. Trans kids dont get surgery, dont get hormones. At the most they *might* get blockers *if* they start to experience the signs of puberty and are distressed by it. We also use blockers for cis kids with precocious puberty. The effects are ultimately reversible and the worst 'side effects' are a *possible* reduction in bone density, but nothing that has been shown to be particularly concerning. No-one is forced or encouraged to get blockers, its an intervention to *prevent* irreversible changes at too young an age.
With puberty evidentially occurring younger and younger in our children, this is a concern we should take to heart. Do you really want your kids to go through puberty at age 8? Because that is happening more and more. Kids in Scotland are able to vote, marry, start learning to drive and live independently at 16. They are able to advocate for themselves in court and for their medical rights in other areas. Why should trans kids be denied that? Blockers give kids breathing room, thats all, so they don't *have* to feel rushed or pressured.
Many tattoo artists won't tattoo people's face or hands, in case the person regrets having their skin inked and want to be able to cover it up. So, while you can't be legally prevented from having your face covered in ink, you will have to hunt around to find somebody willing to do it.
@slacktoryrecords4193 These are the requirements and wait lists for adults, not children. To be honest, minors have similar wait times and requirements, but they also rightfully have age requirements and parental approval along with the 2 doctor sign off.
You do have to meet certain criteria to get a vasectomy, and you have to complete an evaluation. This is done in case you regret the decision. You couldn't have chosen a worse example.
Nice job!! Morning sickness is great example - pass me the thalidomide!!!! This was the reason trials are done before you apply a process broadly.we seem to have forgot that and are experimenting
The statement is NO hormones ZERO until you are old enough to live with the consequences.
Freddy I don't give a F about you and other trans people. You made a decision. Live with it. The point is get away from children. Do that and people might have respect for you. Your crowd lost respect of
Everything you need to know is when he said ‘so called Cass review’. Everything you need to know about Owen Jones and his BS.
Cry
@@scruffopone3989 No buddy. You cry.
Thank you, Owen. Really needed this, this week. It's been one awful hit piece after the other in my news feed, since the "report" dropped. It was starting to feel very lonely and hopeless, but you're still here and still willing to speak up for us and set the record straight, which I hope you know is hugely appreciated 💜
it’s not impossible to escape from cult like thinking
@@lw1zfog Hopefully anti-trans folks will realise this at some point in the future.
You are a lost cause.
@@Jennralize ‘aNtiTRaNs foLKs’ 🥴🤦🏽♂️🤡
@@lw1zfog Don't you have some other middle school children to pick on?
I appreciate Aidan's fair and balanced viewpoints. Very refreshing.
Thank you for covering this
Might be worth considering the rates of treatment success prior to puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and gender affirmation. In cahoots with longstanding and significant gender dysphoria 80-90% showed excellent results with successful resolution of dysphoria over time.
There was never any reason to try new treatments in an unmonitored and unaudited way. This condition is not like terminal cancer when there is nothing to lose by trialling a new drug. The usual safeguards were abandoned. The trans community should be furious about this. Thank goodness young people with gender dysphoria will now get the same degree of consideration as other patients. And the same standard of care as when I was introduced to it in the 1990s.
Hormonal therapy needs to take precedence over any psychologicaol treatment, because we already know it has never worked since the 1970's. No one grows out of being trans, lol, people take it to their grave, unfortunately plenty of ignorant people think any child suffering with gender dysphoria is trans, not even close, it has nothing to do with gender identity. Gender dysphoria can come from trauma, from hormones, from social pressures, but for actual trans people, it is genetic, we already have hard core evidences of gender identity developed in the 2nd trimester. These chldrten need to go on cross sex hormones before puberty, not even blockers!!!
' Thank goodness young people with gender dysphoria will now get the same degree of consideration as other patients. ' are you sure about that, for it appears the direction of travel is about denying service as opposed to improving it, of which is why the trans community remains cautious over welcoming the assertion given just how hostile attitudes have become towards an erstwhile ignored community in recent years.
@@Shalanayayou are lying. The vast majority of minors having gender dysphoria issues, left to themselves, become gay or straight as young adults.
@@Coelacanth1no. Not “denying service”. The problem is with the treatment itself. Not that any treatment exists at all. If something is shown to be ineffective or harmful, why do it?
@@slacktoryrecords4193 Why do it, because the majority treated didn't have a problem with it, where perhaps one might be reminded of the law of the majority.
Homophobia still exists!
Inextricably linked to transphobia, which is based on an insecure heterosexuals fear of being a homosexual, or being seen as one, your comment holds little merit as many trans men and women, either tried living as gay, or were gay years before coming to the realization they were trans.
Much easier for a homophobe not being trans, at least they would not have every man and his dog being an expert on their life.
@@sophiepooks2174 A lot of "trans" identified people are literally homophobic!!! A homosexual male, a male with same-sex attraction, will deny being gay under the guise of "identifying" as a "trans woman" claiming their attraction to males is now somehow heterosexual. How is that NOT homophobic??? How can you claim homosexual males denying their own homosexuality is progress or in any way similar to the struggles of the gay movement???
Also, funny how you lot are perfectly fine with straight males appropriating the gay label - a male, attracted exclusviely to females, ie the opposite sex, is heterosexual, yet you have males "identifying" as "trans women" claiming they are "lesbians" when they are interested in females - how is that progress??? How is trying to redefine sexual orientation and what sexual attraction means, a positive thing???
@@ambientjohnnyGrass, go touch it.
@@silver4831 Nice argument.
@@ambientjohnny What else is there to say in response to that deranged word salad?
can someone link to detransition rates? The claim on one side is that the evidence says it's very low, while the other side says the number is higher.
and who do you think is telling the truth; the people who lie about literally everything else?? From NHS funding to Brexit to historical facts
you know.... and the entire scheme of who they count as trans or not, and therefore who they count is a 'detransitioner' is totally twisted and perverse-- IE, they will look at a child who is not trans but who just has interests or behaviors outside of cultural norms (say, a boy who plays with dolls or paints his fingernails) and when that kid grows up and doesn't transition... because they AREN'T TRANS.... these swine will look at that kid and count him as a 'de-transitioner' or 'non-transitioner' who has been 'cured'... these are just the same creepy weird pervy patriarchs spouting the same nonsense gender ideology they always have and forcing it upon everyone they can and classifying anyone who deviates as a 'problem' whether it's physical, social or cultural deviation
It's in the Cass Report. Detransition rates are extremely low.
The disconnect comes from self-report vs ppl who have left a particular healthcare service being classed as detrans. For example, despite the fact that I never reversed my transition (nor do I want to), I am in stats somewhere as detrans bc I ended a hormone prescription.
The de-transition rate is indeed low it's actually 0.1%,The Cass Report hsa got it slighly wrong,but the report that the percentage is low,sdaly it's the Terfs and their alies that put uo the deliberate misinformation the the transition rates are much higher and use debunked myths ans studies to try and give their misinformation credibility,but the reality is tat te actual detransition rate is really low (matt)
I looked that up earlier to discover the agreed incidence of occurrence with respect to child gender transition is 0.5 to 1.3% - of which is 0.4% lower than the incidence of occurrence for intersex people - of which was the reason I was looking given I know intersex people have to use transition services to fix what doctors broke and take hormonal directions different to the limited stipulated.
grim little enabler is still at it
are they also goin to raise the votin age to 25?
Most young people don't vote anyway.
@@daveisbrill well, that's not true. and even if it was, there's a big difference between choosing not to vote and not being allowed to vote.
That's certainly something the conservatives would love to impose.
Look into the lack of equality in regards to photo IDs for voting purposes.
@@Emma-kz3zr 💯
@@magspiesif most young people voted, brexit wouldn't have happened.
Great video, thank you Owen! Freddy's piece in the guardian was fantastic 💚💚💚
Stunning isn't it simply stunning how Cass's assertion have been accepted without publicised question or critique, to kind of lead one to conclude all those being allowed to speak out have got what they wanted
Gillick competence is not necessarily the same for all procedures.
I'm sure the comments are going to be filled with hatred, so just wanted to say thanks for being the one cis journalist who'll speak out of line against the transphobia.
The report was very clearly a hatchet job intended to do nothing more than launder anti-trans talking points.
100% agreed!
You are contributing to the problem, the issue being one side see nothing but hate filled bigots who have no reason to be anti-trans except they're just hate filled for not wanting to give their children surgery or drugs and the other side see trans people as severly mentally disturbed and delusional victims preaching insanity and biological lunacy. Both sides have far to travel before any kind of resolution is achieved and currently the anti-trans are winning.
@@Dragonaut111 You are delusional, Cass report is pure manipulation and edeception, do some research on this, it has been funded by Christian organizations with dozens of misrepresentations and lies.
Oh dear , I' ve thought Owen's reporting on Gaza has been excellent and I can see how through empathy your own health appears to have suffered. But supporting the mutilation and sterilisation and destruction of orgasmic function of children is not something I could ever support . Nobody on rhis thread has mentioned that 85 % of these kids left alone would either be gay or be happy with their bodies after puberty .
That is an often repeated lie, 98-99% of trans people that transition are happy they did so. The lie of 80-85% of kids grow out of it is from taking all kids with any gender issues seeking help turn out not to be trans. Of the kids that do identity as trans almost all of then (98-99%) continue to feel the same way into adulthood and for the rest of their lives.
Can you give me the source for your 85% statistic?
You seem to be confused between gay and trans folk - not unusual for a heterosexual. You just can't imagine how someone could be sexually interested in the same sex, nor can you imagine how someone could have the brain of one gender in the body of another. That's your limitation, and we resent you thrusting it on us.
@@Leszek.Rzepeckiyou are a bigot for telling people in a group what they can or can't imagine or empathise with.
As far as I know, gays have never tried to alter the puberty or physiology of minors. Am I wrong?
@@jtownblues7237 Hi there. Watchful waiting discussed in Abigail Shrier's " Irreversible Damage . Dr ,Zucker's colleague Devita Singh found that 88% of children who had not been socially transitioned outgrew their dysphoria.
Other studies showed up to 70 % of adolescents dysphoria would be resolved . Chapters 6 and 7 discuss in detail .
Presumably you disagree with yesterday's Guardian Editorial that the Cass Review was "sober and sensitive" Owen?
Did the Guardian bother asking trans folk what they thought of it? Of course not. That would be journalism.
@@Leszek.Rzepecki Yeah dreadful paper, I mean what kind of writers do they have working there eh?
@@mrwevans Writers who don't bother asking trans folk what they think. Because trans folk are so rare, the writers don't know any, so can pretend they don't exist.
@@Leszek.Rzepeckithere's a huge difference between trans activists and regular trans. Like most lgbt, most trans (from what I read) don't want to be lumped in with those determined to get involved with kid's sexuality.
@@Leszek.RzepeckiOK, what % of regular trans people think kids should be given puberty blockers?
Yep
Hell yeah Owen
I think this first speaker, though he seems lovely, is hedging a lot- puberty blockers don’t mess with fertility, and that’s what youth would get, not surgery. And that is reversible/ endable, whereas biological puberty, which can be extremely distressing for trans ppl, is not. I know he acknowledges this later fact but I worry about this kind of « reasonable concern » approach to discourse that is part of a wider reactionary push…
@@lewreed1871 Likely he won't fold given decreased access to NHS care will push patients into private healthcare hands.
@@Coelacanth1I guess you haven’t heard the news about the government’s plan to forbid private clinics from issuing these treatments to young people.
Did I hear that correctly? A "legitimate discussion" over whether trans people should have healthcare?
Daily Wire bs in my view.
Well I guess it depends what you call "health care"? If I go into a doctor's office and tell him I want to surgically remove both arms because I have always felt like a parapalegic, should the doctor refer me to a surgeon? Or to a mental health professional?
What if the doctor knew that most people with my mental condition also had higher levels of other emotional issues like depression, autism, etc? is there a "legitimate discussion" to be had as to whether the doctors should cut off my arms or help me get some mental help?
Gender dysphoria rarely occurs on its own. It is usually one of several mental issues at play.
@@headdown1 And you know this because you are a therapist of a particular specialist area? Or more, the talking points of folk with a particular agenda?
@@headdown1 Do you really think that changing gender is the same as a life changing physical disability?
Giving CHILDREN castration medicine is not healthcare.
it s a messy topic
How many countries have to start severely restricting gender-affirming care before trans activists will acknowledge that these measures are motivated by something other than malevolence, ignorance and/or transphobia? Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and France will soon be followed by the Netherlands (which will be abandoning the "Dutch protocol" that started it all). You can't keep claiming, like trans activist Alex Koren does, that these are the orchestrations of right-wing factions in said countries. It reveals a real ignorance of Western European politics and the power of social conservatives in Western Europe. Every single European country with a publicly funded healthcare system will eventually follow suit
I would invite my GB trans siblings to come over to Ireland, but all our trans health care is provided by the NHS. We desperately need to do better, so that there is a safe haven for our nearest neighbours. All love and solidarity
Don’t bother we have enough deluded AGPs and assorted lunatics on this island
Thank you, as ever, for your support, Owen x
All I know is that I know nothing.
I have much respect for trans people going forward with transitioning and being open about it, despite so much backlash and negativity from society
great video Owen
Thank you very much for your support!
@@PedanticPig you are most welcome
Being out and open though potentially dangerous is our last defence.
@@Coelacanth1 cisgender heterosexual male here standing with you!
@@NigelFartzirage Excellent, thank you
Folks are being far to generous towards Cass. She's Facebook friends with conversion therapists and follows anti trans organizations on social media. She's part of the problem and not some sort of moderate influence
How about attacking the ball not the man? Too difficult so you resort to personal attacks? That strategy isn't working anymore. Do better.
@@daveisbrillDon't ally with pseudoscience
@@CMGThePersoni dont, which is why i dont support affirmation care. Nor do i trust these activists in places of authority. Pseudo science is exactly the thing you support.
@@CMGThePersonwhat's the ACTUAL scientific test to verify someone's gender?
@@daveisbrill There is none, learn the meaning of 'GENDER'.
Thank you for your support Owen, it's truly a breath of fresh air to hear actual support for us in the present climate. Thank you
im still waiting. 3 years. School runs getting interesting
Adults can make stuped decisions. You are entitled to. LEAVE CHILDREN ALONE.
I knew since I was 6 that I should of been born a girl. I was only 14 MONTHS OLD when section 28 was in force. Growing up,I thought I was the only one. When I came out 6 years ago when I was 31,my dad tried to take over my transition. Because I was waiting for so long for my first appointment,my family tried to force me to detransition. My dad claimed that I'll regret when I start hormones. So many people who knew me before I came out can clearly see how much happier I am being my true self. I've actually been SEEN by my gender clinic (who are MEDICALLY QUALIFIED) and they give me my diagnosis of gender dysphoria and my sign offs for surgery.
@@themikaylashow9374 You are insane, leave the children alone.
@@1nhofyou're the insane one mate, whats your obsession with children? Do you want more for yourself?
@@themikaylashow9374you clearly suffer from autogynephelia
@@themikaylashow9374 I am happy you found a way to manage your condition. You seem to have survived. I would suggest there are two many who "think" they are finding their true self at 6,7,8 thru to 15 and 16 only to realize what a horrific mistake it is to lose sexual function when you use blockers are move to hormones as as teen.
Wow.. shame on Owen jones
Doubling down
This is not about ideology Owen !
What is it then?
@@sophiepooks2174 the science ,Cass report is fair
@@vre7474 I mean, if you wanna talk about the science, talk about the trans-supportive studies that Owen brings up, which the Cass report ignores. Science doesn't get to arbitrarily pick and choose which studies it listens to.
@@RelativelySaneStudio well many scientific views oppose ,yours is selective ,Cass is comprehensive
😂
Jones is a plank, needs cancelling for peddling this rubbish
Jones is one of those pathetic woke people who thinks with his heart instead of using his mind. People like Jones are very irresponsible for pushing a dangerous ideology
@@viejolincanada Not sure about his "heart" - more like his massive ego.
@@debbielondon1809 My comment got deleted but I remember it. I said "heart" to be nice to Jones
oh but then you're throwing up sobbing and crying when it's your favs getting "cancelled" lol
Thanks Owen! Really appreciate the work you do.
Absolute cranks
When I loose faith in humanity I watch Owen! Why do we want to tell others how to live? Let people be who ever they are. You are a wonderful person Owen!!!!
"Let people be who ever they are."
Yes, that's what I say. So you'll forgive me if I lose my temper quite badly when I see people telling youngsters that in order to "be who ever they are", they need some "fixing" by means of a cock-a-hoop story, lifelong, debilitating (one might say devastating) quack medicine and brutal experimental surgeries.
I'm sure you get the point, and "wonderful" Owen has been peddling this stuff from the start. Personally, I don't know how he sleeps at night, and I suspect he's having to keep whatever doubts he has about this very much at bay in his mind. A better man than "wonderful" Owen would have recognised his mistake and issued a mea culpa by now. Not "wonderful" Owen. He's lower than a snake's balls.
@@lewreed1871 I take it you aren't a gay or trans person, because you show so little sympathy or understanding. Being gay isn't the same as being trans, but we gay folk can understand what bigotry against us means.
@@Leszek.Rzepecki A lot of "trans" identified people are literally homophobic!!! A homosexual male, a male with same-sex attraction, will deny being gay under the guise of "identifying" as a "trans woman" claiming their attraction to males is now somehow heterosexual. How is that NOT homophobic??? How can you claim homosexual males denying their own homosexuality is progress or in any way similar to the struggles of the gay movement???
Also, funny how you lot are perfectly fine with straight males appropriating the gay label - a male, attracted exclusviely to females, ie the opposite sex, is heterosexual, yet you have males "identifying" as "trans women" claiming they are "lesbians" when they are interested in females - how is that progress??? How is trying to redefine sexual orientation and what sexual attraction means, a positive thing???
Raising the age of consent to 25 will cause problems with military recruitment at the very least
That’s alright.
i mean i think 18 works well but military is the last of my concerns lmao
@@akgfilming But not the nations concerns given recent news.pertaining to the issue of defence.
We need to let children be children.
If you have a problem with someones gender identity or how someome expresses themselves, you need to ask yourself why, and speak to someone about it because that is your own personal issue. Your ignorance and hate do not give you the right to infringe on anyones right to health care.
Do you understand that their is a difference between adults making decisions for themselves and for kids or do you see adults and kids as equal?
@daveisbrill I see parents and kids working with doctors and health care professionals to decide what is best for their kid privately - and keeping the government and your opinion out of it.
@@djderekrockno. What you see are parents and children visiting doctors who are scared shitless to recommend anything other than transition. Doctors have always been supposed to diagnose, but if they want to avoid serious 'consequences ' they must affirm these kids, not diagnose. What do you think the ,'affirming' in 'gender affirming care' means,??
@@djderekrockI wonder just how many countries and US states have to back out of gender affirming care on minors, how many lawsuits must be lost, how many reports must be written, before you even wonder if you could be wrong.
I suggest that you are so inextricably determined to transition minors, that you will never do that. You are too invested in your ideology.
@@daveisbrill but transgender people exist and most state they have known since childhood. How invested in your own ideology do you have to be to claim you know better than the people that actually feel this way?
“Trans” movement decades???
No, only since about 2004 when the GRA was smuggled into law. 😂
The notion of "full brain development at 25" is based on absolutely nothing and defined around absolutely nothing. Brains change throughout your life, creating and destroying neural pathways all of the time. What matters is intelligence and experience. Intelligence actually seems to peak in the mid to late teens and then goes down, depending on what types of intelligence you are testing for. Experience, by definition, increases with age, and is, really, just the nature of age restated: "age" and "experience" are the same thing. The question prompted is: "what experiences in particular, justifies being properly informed enough to make a decision"?
Someone needs to read some introductory cognition textbooks. 😅
Intelligence is not the same as rational thinking. The part of the brain that can make rational decisions doesn't complete its connections until 25. Yes, you can create and destroy different pathways throughout your life but that doesn't change the fact that children's brains are not developed enough to weigh serious things.