The truth about servicing automatic transmissions (even the sealed ones) | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- You need to service all auto transmissions - even the sealed ones. This report is the how, why and when - for ordinary and severe applications, as well as whether you need to fit an aftermarket cooler or not.
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This report answers the following question, from a dude named Barry:
I really enjoy your videos as they give us non experts factual information that's difficult to get from other sources that are often less reliable.
I'd like to get some facts from you about what are harmful temperatures of the oil in automatic transmissions. I drive a 2.8l Prado with auto transmission & occasionally tow a camper trailer weighing 1.6 tonnes. Connected to the OBD2 port in the Prado is a ScanGauge2 that allows me to see the readings from many of the sensors on the car. I've been particularly interested in the readout of the transmission temperature.
"Some time ago you published a video that recommended using auto setting to tow & not to use the transmission as a "manual". Normally when towing I'd set the transmission into the 1:1 ratio 4th gear & tow in that mode. After watching your video, on the next camping trip to western Qld I put the Prado into Drive to see what, if any, difference it made. It did drive a little differently & shifted gears a lot more as it moved between the 5th & 6th overdrive gears to 4th gear or lower depending on the terrain.
The transmission temperature in this auto mode was regularly in the range of high 90 to over 100 deg C with the ambient temperature in the mid to high 20's.
"Next I went back to my default towing mode with the transmission set to 4th as the highest gear ratio used. There were less gear changes (no surprises there) but the transmission temperatures were definitely lower, mostly in the 80's & occasionally into the low 90's. Ambient temperatures were the same as before. The downside was that the fuel consumption was slightly higher. At a service after that trip I got my mechanic to change the transmission oil as on inspection it appeared much darker than normal. I'm not sure whether this was a result of the way it was driven on this trip or not.
"My understanding is that the optimum temperature for longevity of an auto transmission is somewhere in the 80 deg range & anything higher was likely to cause long term damage if the oil wasn't changed regularly (the Prado service schedule is for an oil change each 40,000 kms or 2 yrs). Can you give me some guidance on whether this is correct or not & what regularly running at the types of temperatures seen in auto mode are damaging. There must be many Prados (and other makes) out there that are used for towing & driven in a set & forget fashion that could be just waiting for an expensive appointment with a service centre.
"I'd appreciate your comments on this subject."
Many thanks
Barry - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Right on. When I bought my bmw, they told me the trans was “sealed for life.” As a former heavy line mechanic, I knew better and contacted ZF. They said to service it between 60 and 80k miles. They were even so good as to send me a pdf of the procedure.
A classic case of the marketing department ignoring engineers. They think it'll sell more cars, but sooner or later the end user figures out the scam and stops buying altogether.
Poor advice. One drain and fill per year is better than 3 or 4 later on trying to flush it all out.
Those flush machines are a joke . Only drain and fill.
@@mysticjedi6730
Absolutely. When I was a heavy line tech for a Ford dealer back in the late 90's, our dealer purchased one of those new, state of the art transmission flushing machines. More than a few vehicles that received the heavily touted transmission flush came back needing new transmissions. It wasn't too long before they finally got rid of that machine. Drain and fill and just stay on top of your mainteneance. That's all that's needed.
@@Dimitrius001 my mazda 3 has a drain bolt. My chevy truck does not so I pump some out of the dip stick tube, measure what came out and refill that amount.
You can throw the maintenence book in the garbage. Use your experience .
@@mysticjedi6730 the btr 95le as used by ford australia where made to be serviced by running the vehicle and pumping the fresh oil in and the old oil out. the early ones didnt have a dipstick the later models did as they had failures becuase the owner couldnt check the oil let alone add any with out the correct machine.
im a believer in regular changes at the proper interval saves money no need for a flush but certainly change the filter and the oil.
Yes John, as a mechanic (now retired) I have been an advocate of regular auto trans servicing irrespective of what the manufacturer says.
Well said Kim. Me too, folks don't listen.
Please seem my comment above. I'd appreciate your input.
@Samuel Jesse Jonah if you don't service it, this can be a symptom of putting fresh fluid in a really worn out / clogged transmission, especially if flushed!
Thanks for covering this topic! We ran a fleet of chauffeur cars as a business and would change the transmission fluid and filter every 50,000k’s. This resulted in cars easily reaching 500,000k’s on the original box still shifting well. Other people in the same business wouldn’t do the same and at around 150-200,000k’s they’d be up for a new one.
Absolutely correct, if the transmission and the car it's in is correctly designed and the engine never overheats transmission fluid can last nearly forever in as much as there's no combustion waste to contaminate it. I've personally driven cars to over 200,000 miles without ever changing the fluid and they never missed a shift.
On other cars where the car and the transmissions were designed less well I've seen the fluid turn dark and smell burnt at relatively low miles.
Pro Tip: If your car has a dip stick, just check the fluid by seeing if it's still cherry red and smell it. If it is darker or it smells burnt change the fluid ASAP! Also, if your engine overheats, change the transmission fluid immediately. Once the fluid gets roasted, it's no good anymore and this can happen very quickly when the engine overheats.
As to not changing the transmission fluid on cars with high miles for the first time. There is a myth that changing the fluid in cars that haven't had a fluid change before can actually kill the transmission. And there's a basis in truth as I have seen some high mileage automatic transmissions crap out right after a fluid change. But people don't tend to tell you why they were changing the fluid in the first place. In each case where transmissions failed right after a fluid change, the transmissions weren't shifting properly or more often, already slipping before the fluid change. So to be clear, the transmission was already failing and the fluid change didn't fix it. It's not that the new fluid killed the transmission. I've changed the fluid in older transmissions that were shifting sluggishly, where the fluid wasn't toasty and it has helped to improve shifting by cleaning the varnish out of the throttle body. The transmission will tend to improve over a few thousand miles. It's not an instant fix. Fluid changes usually do more good than bad and can sometimes help some high mileage transmissions. If your transmission fluid change kills your transmission, it was likely amongst the walking dead already.
Next... Some shops here in the US offer "transmission flush" services. For the most part when you change your fluid, you only change about half of the fluid in your transmission. The rest pretty much stays in your torque converter unless it has a drain plug. This is still pretty much OK. If the fluid in your trans isn't toasted the new fluid adds detergents and improves the lubrication properties of the fluid overall. So why isn't a flush better? Because many shops just do it badly. They use dirty equipment, that often may contain some fluid left over from a different vehicle, or they might use a chemical flush that can damage the delicate components of your particular transmission. Done correctly a 100% fluid change is a good thing and if done by an expert a flush might help if sludge and varnish are your problem, but for the most part, when offered by a discount oil change place the risks outweigh the benefits. Of course, again one of the big reasons why flushes and changes fail is because the people buying the service are bringing in transmissions that are already trashed. If you hear some old timer, like me, tell you that changing the fluid will wash out the grit that's making your clutches work... you're missing the point. If your clutches need grit in the fluid to work, your transmission is already shot.
Lastly... Always change your dang transmission filter when you change your fluid! In my experience the old filter can weigh a whole lot more than your new one. It's full of clutch material and other contaminants that have worn off your clutches over time. This wear is normal and new clutches come with more material than they actually need to work. The clogged filter will decrease oil flow in your transmission that will increase heat and reduce lubrication. Replacing a clogged filter will often improve your transmission's performance immediately.
Bonus points: Many transmissions have a magnet inside to catch fine metal debris. Don't forget to clean the magnet. The more debris on the magnet the weaker the magnetic field at the fluid interfacing surfaces and the less well it's working... so always clean and replace the magnet, regardless of what the owner's manual tells you to do. (Some car manuals claim the magnet is only there to remove metal from the manufacturing process. Even if this is true, replacing the magnet will never do any harm.) And I'm sure it goes without saying use only the correct transmission fluid for your car.
Flushes are actually bad and a huge no.I know a transmission repair shop in my area that makes money off of them doing valve body cleanings and rebuilds.Lines are above the valve body and filter full of dirt and crud,all that dirt and crud ends up being dumped into the valve body during the flush
@@Toolaholic7 Depending on the transmission... that makes perfect sense. While a typical fluid change slowly dissolves varnish and burnt on materials and hopefully slowly transfers harder materials to the new filter... braking free all of the crud at once and flushing it through the valve body does indeed sound like a terrible idea. I think most people don't get just how much crud, mostly from worn clutches and fine metal debris actually builds up in a perfectly working transmission. I know I was surprised when I changed my filter and cleaned my magnet in my retired Police Interceptor at just how much clutch material and magnetic pulp I removed from a transmission with cherry red trans fluid. I'd hate to think of all of that crap being flushed into my valve body.
@@RJ-vb7gh This is with all automatic transmissions
thank you greatly ..for your information..which is ery true...cheers mate..
Very informative, thanks.
Dear John,
Greetings from Austria (the roo free Oz). I've been a fan of your channel for some time and really enjoy the topics you cover. I wanted to say a BIG thankyou for this video. I have a vehicle with one of these 9 speed auto transmissions. Nothing in the manufactures information or service schedule about changing the transmission fluid. But, I've had my vehicle for 5 years and had noticed more and more clunky gear changes. After I watched your video, I did some more research and after my local dealer quoted me 850€ to change the transmission fluid, plucked up the courage to change it myself. €65 for parts and a couple of hours on a sunny Sunday later. The fluid is swapped out and this has transformed the vehicles behaviour, it feels like new once more. So, thanks a bunch ! Anytime your in my neck of the woods, free beers for you !
Hi John, amazing video, great info. A couple of years ago I hit this apparent “sealed for life” issue when I owned an Audi A4 with CVT. As I was aware of the negative comments on the internet about these transmissions I tried to find a drain/fill hole in the casting. When told I would never need to drain and change the fluid I was immediately sceptical (given remembering some dim distant college thermodynamics education!) Had a chat with my decent local mechanic who pretty much said the same as you and we changed the oil every 60,000, no towing just a lot of hill use. Never had any problem and I believe the CVT is still going strong. Your presentation was excellent and really covered the whole topic....should be made mandatory watching at “mechanics school”. When I was a lad when hotting up our cars back in the UK we always fitted remote oil coolers to the engine and auto if needed for just the reasons you outlined. Putting them at the bottom of the radiator was never effective. Keep up the great work mate, I always really enjoy the videos.👍😎🇦🇺
A Masterclass in Slush-boxery, Mr Cadogan. $hit, even I can understand it now. Well done!
My pleasure, father.
Thank you for putting this into simple, understandable terms.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching.
Thanks John for your down to earth advice. I have young sons and of course they are swept up in all the 4WD mods etc. I show them your video's for they reinforce my advice. I have been a mechanic for 20 + years and of course what does dad know? But someone else i.e subject matter expert does penetrate that young stubbornness. Cheers Mate, Love your work!!
"Sealed for life" is a self fulfilling prophecy
It's a short life.
More correctly named "Sealed for the life of the lubricant"
Yep, just like we can all hold our breath for the rest of our lives
@@steveallen1340 Indeed
Sealed for the life of the warranty
I am SO glad you did this video. I have been an advocate of fluid changes for many decades. (I'm retired) One time, I got a '94 Buick with a 4T60E where I could plug in an early scanner that tapped into the transmission temp. I experimented on different driving and in different terrain and found the temp changing within less than one minute. Before this car, I used to tap in a sensor into the cooling line to watch the temp. Same result even before I started using a scanner. Whenever I buy a car, the first thing I do is find out when the T/C engages in various gears. I do this because when I encounter a hill, I'll shift into whatever lower gear necessary, manually, usually just out of O/D, depending on how many speeds this tranny has and let the T/C re-engage, then go up the hill with ease. The engine spins faster but with less effort and the tranny is locked up. It eliminates heating up drastically. I also have a permanent vacuum gage on the dash. That too aids in watching what's going on under the hood. Eliminating engine and tranny strain ALWAYS prolongs my drivetrain life. I live in a very hilly area, so keeping strain out of the picture saves me big repair bills and affords me high mileage vehicles. Fluid changes I toss a coin on per vehicle because that new fluid may cause slipping, but I AM a very strong advocate of fluid changes on cars people have with low mileage. No one listens. These CVT's REALLY need it, but again, no one listens. Referring strictly on cars from the early 60s, whenever I changed the fluid on cars with miles on them, they slipped soon after and I had to change the tranny out. Chrysler vehicles with the Torqueflite 727 and 904 back then didn't seem to have that problem, very strong, but GM and Ford did. On these newer cars, I may siphon out 1 quart every 5-10k miles and put a new quart in and so far, I've been "lucky". With the replacement cost of buying another tranny or vehicle, I don't want to take a chance. I SO hate these new cars. Again, thank you again for doing these very necessary videos. If only more people would watch them and learn something.
When I bought my Pathfinder they told me it was sealed for life and I was like WTF?
Anyway, it was under lease so I was stuck to the Nissan dealer who I had to convince to to the trans service at 80k (i got lazy and left it). When I picked the car up he was like " oh, the oil was in good nick....here look its a nice coffee colour".
Again i was like WTF????. I said to him that it should be a cherry red and when it get to that colour that its screwed and he looked at me like I was an idiot (which I am not.....been in the motor trade for 20 years at that stage).
Anyway, 5 transmission services and 250k later we are still going strong.
It's a nice coffee colour!!!!! Hilarious 😂 Well not if it meant your trans was fucked but more so that this idiot thought coffee coloured was good for trans fluid.
At 250k, I'd expect most cars to walk it in. Hondas and Toyotas are just about broken in at these kms 🤣
@@nickhayley not with the maintenance schedules they set for sales purposes. Telling someone their transmission is sealed for life and doesn't need servicing is shortening the life of that component.
There is nothing built into this car to protect it from major failure like the oil quality diagnostic algorithms or the quality of oil in say new BMWs, it relies regular old ATF and on servicing to keep it going. Which it is, just fine.
Apply the same servicing schedule to a Honda and a Toyota and it wouldn't last either.
Gotta love those Nissan dealers. Mine told me that my catalytic converters were stuffed as the metal had "turned blue" and rainbow colours. I too have worked in the motor trade and went on to tell them why they were blue. I don't think they knew what to say. Word like "ummm", "but" and "ahh..." started to come out
Thank you very much for this information. Currently driving my first automatic transmission vehicle. Bought new earlier this year and I will definitely remember that 60k km interval as I have no real experience with the things and I'd hate to have it fall apart.
Excellent information and so important to spread this message. Please keep up these types of educational vids mate. Thanks.
Very well explained. One of the most important videos every car owner must watch (and off course, follow the message). Thanx John; and cheers from Canada!
I first saw *that* T-shirt at college nearly 30 years ago. It's an oldie but a goodie.
You make a great High School Physics teacher. Great lesson.
Back in the "Dark ages of Auto's" we used to recommend a trans service at 20k or 12 Mths. Traumatics and BW 35/40. When fitting a cooler, the radiator was bypassed, and put a bung in the inlet and outlet of the bottom tank. Another quite good reason for doing this was vibration of the cooler lines (metal) could fracture the cooler core and allow trans fluid when hot to get into the cooling system and contaminate the coolant. Then, when the engine was switched off, trans fluid pressure would drop and coolant pressure (13-16 psi) would force that liquid into the transmission lines resulting in lovely pink coloured fluid, which for some reason was not considered too good for the transmission internals. For every 10c the fluid was lowered, transmission life was extended markedly. Keep up the great info stuff.
I had this exact issue back in my old HQ. Couldnt find where my coolant leak was for weeks until I happened to check the traumatic dipstick one Sunday. Thanks for bringing back that old nightmare.
Hey John, over the last two years I have been trying to find someone in Brisbane to service my Subaru Forester XT 2013 transmission from 60000klm as it was the first model to use the FA2.0 turbo with the CVT and 90000klm fast approaching I finally found someone that had the competence to do the job. Massive shout out to (Reliable Automatics & Automotive - Albion)
This company not only knew everything about Automatics and CVT they also used to rebuild them for Subaru Australia. I cannot start to count how many phone calls and emails I sent to different Subaru dealers and workshops over the two years and simply never got a reply. One and half hours later, job done and I will return every two years for longevity. Don't forget some transmissions also have filters and mine was also replaced in the service. My final thoughts are I have had the Forester since new and over the seven years and 95000klm I can confirm the gear changes are far more smoother after the service and just feels much better.
I have a 06 Pathfinder (the one with the dodgy radiators) and knew this when buying it 2nd hand. I was going to use it for towing a boat (750kg max) up and down the escarpment near Wollongong so decided to bypass the radiator for the transmission and ran a Davies-Craig trans cooler with thermo fan setup. The thermo temp is set to 95c to turn the fan on. Only twice did the thermo fan kick in while towing up the escarpment. Main reason was the peace of mind that if the radiator did collapse inside, it wouldn't dump the coolant into the transmission. I did have an EL Falcon that sometimes would have the trans light come on while towing up there as well, so knew that towing there would increase the temps in the transmission a fair bit.
Great advice.
Got a full service done to my sealed unit when purchased at 70,000km and just got another done at 150,000km which I felt was a bit late.
Never understood how people can not get it done and just ignore it.
I've got an i30 which has only done 12000ks .When it comes to when I think the auto fluid should be changed is it easy enough for my hyundai dealer to do it at my request?
@@alanrix5344 Fulid most are happy to do, service with filter change etc. some either try to talk you out of it or over charge.
Thanks John, really informative and easy to understand.
This was a particularly good episode. Thank you sir!
Thanks,John.Very well explained and clear and simple.Glad we do not have the extreme temps here in N.Z. Summer rarely exceeds 30C in Levin.
Thanks for that. I have always over serviced my cars especially the engine and transmission oils. Every car I've had has done big mileage with never one failure ..
Thanks. I’ve been waiting for a video on this topic for ages.
Me too. Coincidence?
The straight talk! I'll be recommending videos like this one to my bull-headed group of co-workers who incessantly argue with me about "sealed, lifetime fluid!"
I even tried to meet them in the middle by conceding, "ok, lifetime fluid can be possible, but a lot of driving variables must be in place," I says.
They still wont sway.
THANK YOU JOHN FOR THIS USEFULL TUTORIAL. REALLY INFORMATIVE.😀👍
When buying used it’s definitely a good idea to change the transmission oil on those sealed shut mystery boxes without paperwork 🤦♂️
Agree...all liquids for me. restart the clock so you know when the next change is due.
The timing on this one is amazing. I've got a 2011 VE Maloo and have suspected for the last couple of weeks that she was starting to slip a little inside the auto. HSV in their infinite wisdom allow you to show tertiary gauges on your info screen and I always have transmission oil temp and intake air temps showing. On 30+ degree days the trans temp stays at around 78 degrees, Ive never seen it go above that, and I figured that must have been too hot. According to your data its actually staying pretty cool. Still going to send her in for a transmission service regardless now because of your 60k recommendation.
She's only just cracked 100,000 kms but being second hand I dont know how hard a life she had before I picked her up, being a Maloo I'd suspect it wasn't an easy one.
Thank you so much for this video! I have wondered when or if i should change mine. I will get that done at the next service (70,000km) Thanks!
Your discussion on the auto trans cooler was bloody interesting. Was gratified when I checked under the bonnet of my three pronged suppository SUV, discovering that it has an air cooled auto trans cooler just in front and at the lower end of the main engine radiator!
Thanks John, beautifully described as always. I can confirm the scenario through real life experience, as a my (now-ex) Ford Territory six speed sealed-for-life auto gearbox failed at 135,000 after a few years of intermittent towing of a mere 1.6T shittoire on wheels over a period of a few years. Cost thousands to recondition and could have been avoided for a few hundred spent on regular autobox services. And this with a box that had a built-in transmission cooler! (AWD model.)
shittoire -- I've been wondering what word that was. I just did a quick web search and the word doesn't seem to be used very often, especially not when it comes to cars. It seems like a word made up for Johnny's sense of humour.
I use a non contact infrared thermometer and check cv joints. The differential temp temp is overlooked and the non contact infrared thermometer works great too. This guy is giving great advice. Thank you.
They are not great on shiny surfaces, its best to use a little matt black paint on those surfaces to give a true reading.
@@oojimmyflip yes you are correct. Good idea to paint a flat black " target "
This is some of the best advice you will ever get about your vehicle! Trust me you'll be happy you followed it. Not only does your transmission last longer it will also work better. Your car will refrain from feeling like garbage. I gladly pay to have my transmission serviced. It has paid off for me. My lady vehicle was a Pontiac Montana SV6 which are known for weak transmissions I got 433000KM out of it and the transmission still worked like new when I sold it because I had it serviced at regular intervals.
Great presentation of the facts, preventative maintenance is the cheapest insurance you will ever purchase. While I am seeing others spending thousands on transmission repairs, my miniscule cost to service my auto every 20k is money i can spend elsewhere. Well done John, rock solid advise!
Sealed for life is fine until the warranty expires. Then, good luck getting the dealer or manufacturers to fix one that shat itself. Engine oil and trans fluid are cheap, engine and transmission replacement costs will make your head spin. Inexpensive insurance, imho
Transmission failure often scraps a vehicle. But is the cost of a new transmssion truthful? Someone is making a dishonest dollar somewhere.
Actually some ATF's are outrageously fuckin expensive.
Still its much cheaper than a failure of the transmission.
@@ScatManAust ZF lifeguard ATF. Bottle should be gold- plated for the price!
I think it’s warranty not warrantee.
@@stendecstretcher4983 yes. U r correct. Thanks
My owners manual says change automatic transmission fluid every 45,000km, but i do mine every 40,000km because i choose to. Transmission fluid is cheap, a rebuild isn't. Sealed for life is nothing but "bullshit", no transmission is perfectly sealed. Atleast in my humble opinion.
Factoring in how harsh our climate can be, i'd rather have an external transmission cooler for piece of mind knowing my temps are more consistent, because transmission coolers plumbed through radiators can only extract so much heat before returning to the auto, where as an external transmission cooler helps maintain temps within my vehicles operating range. Even if i'm not towing, it's brilliant to have
Lower temps, better fluid life & automatic transmission life !
Hope you're well John !
All transmissions are sealed, until they aren't. Trans fluid is pretty thin stuff so even a small leak makes a pretty substantial mess. They whole idea of a lifetime sealed transmission is nothing but marketing. It is marketing and pacification to the government. I mean if the tailshaft seal leaks it means I need a new transmission? Ridiculous. Eliminating the dipstick is nothing but a disaster for the consumer. There is no easy way to monitor the condition of your fluid. As pointed out that varies wildly according to the demand put on a given unit.
Have you thought about becoming a university lecturer ? Your a natural teacher John. Thank you for sharing.
I remember when we used to change the oil in the pre-selector box's, (forerunner of the auto box) you had to turn the fluid flywheel to get the drain plug to the bottom to make sure you got all the oil out, and adjust the bands, oil quality has improved a 1000% since then.
Mechanical components are pretty simple really.... if its got gears,moving parts,chains, belts etc. It will require lube, grease, oil or servicing at some point in time dependent on use and regardless of what a manufacturer wants you to believe.
Personally, I've always "over serviced" alot of cars, motorbikes, boats, farming equipment etc. When compared to manufacturer intervals and its always treated me well in return.
Yeah - it is hard to service anything too often.
Only person who doesn't subscribe to "Preventative Maintenance" is the person on the side of the road. I used to stop for distressed traveller's, now I just ask if they have phone coverage.
I also overservice my own cars as I work in a workshop.
@@peterlattimore6013 I once gave a motorist my spare fan belt out in the boonies, his big bitch was that the panty-hose he had been carrying for years as a fix for a broken belt didn't work. Why in Christ's name didn't he carry a fan belt? I knew other dicks who carried a can of apricot jam to use as a gasket replacement. Gasket Goo was readily available. Emergency fixes are one thing but if you are carrying anything, carry the proper spare.
Over-servicing new or new-ish mechanical gear, within the reasonable bounds of sensible budget management? Sure, go nuts.
Try that on the kind of old shitbox family fleet that I seem to have become responsible for maintaining and you'll earn yourself a fun afternoon of seized/rusted/broken bolts, stripped out holes, gaskets that only start leaking after the service because you cleaned out all the gum/tar/varnish that was sealing them up, more rust than you'd really care to think too much about, and assorted broken bits of trim/bodywork/underbonnet doovalackeys that will remain broken and/or rattly forevermore because who the fuck really cares enough to source a replacement cable retention clip or door trim insert for a vehicle with 450,000kms on the clock? Not me mate.
So yeah, not advised on older vehicles. If they're running mostly okay, DO NOT TINKER, you'll break something. Just change the fluids at sensible intervals as needed and wait for something to go pear-shaped in a serious fashion, then fix everything at once, mostly.
using a obd2 dongle while towing in a 2012 pajero was interesting.
using 5th, I could only use very small throttle openings before the torque converter unlocked.
within minutes the temp would skyrocket from in to 70s to over 100.
locking in 4th, the t/c lock stayed locked pretty much all the time and the temp stayed in the 70s
I recently had the trans oil in my y62 changed at 45,000, it was very dark, and didn't look good. definitely worth the $400
Very interesting to know, thank you for this
And i love this guy!!Thanks mate.
BRILLIANT, just BRILLIANT.
10/10.
- What more can I say???
THANK YOU Johno!!!
Did this recently on the Mazda 6 at 140,000 Km. They don’t make it easy but the fluid was pretty dark and the magnet in the pan had a little sludge on it. New filter and fluid and it all seems to be working well so far. When I asked the service department about doing this over the years they told me the transmission is sealed and there is no way of doing it.
About a year after I bought my SV6 VF2 Commodores brand new. I spoke to my local auto transmission guy, about my sealed transmission. I asked him, when should I take the car in for a transmission service. He told me the first service should be by 100,000 klm since I don't use the car for towing. I asked him if that should be a full flush, or just an oil change. He said just a change.
My car is currently 4 years old with 45,000 on the odometer.
Excellent explanations, very practical and still maintaining good sense of humour.
Appreciate the outstanding sense of humor
Pro tip: sourcing information from the transmission supplier instead of the car manufacturer can help to decide what’s best. The service intervals are not the same. Very few car manufacturers produce their own transmissions.
As an example, for a particular Toyota I had, recommended interval of 60k for cvt oil change (drain and refill). The transmission supplier (aisin) recommends 20k service interval and use a transmission fluid changer to flush the system.
Dealerships should be forced to better inform the customer as to servicing requirements before they sell a vehicle
Yes this 100% - This is the same, obviously, for Lexus vehicles. My Lexus IS has no recommended service interval on the transmission, only an inspection at 100k miles! Aisin recommend 20k service intervals also. If you own a Toyota / Lexus then your Transmission is made by Aisin, who recommend you change that nasty old fluid every 20k.
Fun fact: Toyota owns Aisin (51%) so they control the company. But as such Toyota tries to extract more money by acting like service isn’t necessary or when it is it’s under “severe” operating conditions.... I just change all transmission fluid at 15k miles. Cheap insurance
As an ex BMW Parts Interpreter, the service options with factory sealed transmissions are limited. The factory fluid is extremely expensive, and there's no serviceable parts. If there's any problem the fix was an exchange factory refurbished transmission. Trade mechanics would disassemble them to diagnose, or service them, then discover there's no replacement parts. Dealer labour costs were astronomical, north of $110 per hour. Gotta pay for that shiny showroom somehow, aka the chrome plated mausoleum.
Hence why chipping away at changing the oil is important :)
I totally agree with you about the whole BMW attitude. That's why people say BMW stands for "break my wallet" or "big money waster." Ridiculous!
and that scented lube
Learned this from a couple of channels here on CZcams. If you're looking at a secondhand Beemer and it runs a little rough, that's not too bad as long as it isn't smoky. But if it shifts poorly or has any kind of roughness in the driveline you don't walk away, you run.
Even worse, modern BMWs don't have an oil stick anymore either to save money. You rely on the senor to ensure you have enough oil. It fails, and the engine runs out of oil you are out of an engine. Have a neighbor who did this.... I warned him to check the oil every 3000 miles but he told me "Oh, it won't fail." Yet it did. Talk about catastrophic failure - that was it.
The most well spoken and factual truth I've ever heard.im a mechanic by trade and like a worn out clutch it needs replacing.just like gladice
Great useful info delivered with fun and meaning. Thanks!
Precision Transmissions have a good few videos on what happens to your transmission's insides if you choose not to service it
In the stream of marketing buff, the words 'warranty period' have been replaced with 'life'
So they genuinely are sealed for that life.
Excellent as usual - Bravo - Thank you John
54 people downvoted this sensible advice. They must have had company cars & hated the company they work for.
Roughly 2% of voters for any CZcams video will be down voters, proving that at least 2% of the population are fu*^tards.
Damn it he said "don't drill a hole and insert a termometer" 6 minutes in. Can you make a video of how to plug a hole in a transmission?
Oh, it really is so easy! Get a golf tee and you favorite lead mallett...
😂😂😂
this might be good, you can now turn that into a plug hole to drain a little fluid, just so long as you can put it back in using the trans fluid dipstick hole... you do have a transmission dipstick don't you?
That sounds like a job for FLEX SEAL..
Not all vehicles have a dip stick or place for the tube, at least in the States. Isuzu for example chose to get rid of it in favor of a fill/drain on the bottom. The fill is about 3 inches higher than the drain, checked with the fluid above 172 degrees F and running. This is an attempt to keep Bubba from overfilling. Once warm to hot, the fluid expands. Have you noticed on RWD vehicles where the sticks tube is located? Right over the exhaust manifold on “V” configured engine. If you didn’t know, ATF, either regular or synthetic burn real hot. Yes, I was working at a dealer with a Goodyear service center across the street. After servicing, they added ATF and let run to get an accurate reading. It overflowed, ran onto the exhaust, and by the time the fire truck arrived, the rear license plate was all that left on this Ford Exploder the tech had thoughtfully back it outdoors so he would have a place to work, If still employed.
The average driver does not appreciate the marvel that is automatic transmission fluid.
It is a lubricant AND a coolant AND a hydraulic fluid. That is asking quite a bit for a single fluid, but a proper fluid can easily handle all these jobs.
Sure, different transmissions over the years require different types of transmission fluid, but the difference is usually due to different requirements for the friction materials required by the clutch discs and bands, but they all service the same demands.
Auto trans are often over-built and can handily manage all but extreme use and abuse, but heat will shorten the life or kill a transmissions life expectancy.
I think I can easily assume that the thought and engineering that goes into the formulation of specific auto transmission fluids is a bit of an engineering marvel in and of itself.
ATF is a Marvel... as in a "Marvel Mystery Oil" ?
OK, got it! I'm orf to service the old slushbox!
Good video, John. 2014 MB C-350 purchased new. MB sked is: Change trans. fluid every 70K miles. No flush, just drain and fil and replace filter. Replaces about 1/2 of the fluid (6 quarts). Approaching 100K Miles and have followed this sked. So far trans. shifts smoothly. My next change is at 140K miles.
John your knowledge is very helpful I'm always keen to find out more especially if its saving me money down the road many thanks Terry
Great video! I'd love to see a similar analysis for CVT types too.
Thanks. I'd love to see me be Clint Eastwood.
@@AutoExpertJC so would I!
A separate video isn't necessary, it is actually largely the same. They still need their fluid changed regularly regardless of what the manufacturer says and excessive heat is still a leading cause of failure and should be avoided. The same scenarios cause excessive heat in CVTs as in regular autos and excessive heat is dealt with the same way (by adding a cooler).
I'll keep my manual gearbox thanks. Replacing a clutch /pressure plate combination for under $1000AUD every 100k, and not suffer the critical failures of automatics, is my preference. 👍👍🇭🇲
The clutch on my 89 Mustang made it up to 187k miles, haven't changed it yet.
Every time I remove my VW Kombis air-cooled engine I change the clutch friction plate. It costs me £8.00 😁
If I had a hero....and I don't, It would be you, John. Thank you for doing what you do. Cheers Mate.
Excellent and comprehensive John thsnks very much.
“Humans die in the snow” as a Scandinavian I would probably last longer in the snow -15*C than in the 50*C Australia outback.
That is of corse assuming that I would be wearing proper winter clothes and that I wouldn’t get attacked by a Koala, poisoned by a platypus, kicked by a kangaroo before I even get to the outback.
I'm fairly sure you die faster in the snow given the worse case for both.
Heat case: Assume you are dressed appropriately for the heat - hat, long sleeve loose cotton shirt, shorts and decent shoes/boots. 50c is the PEAK temp and will be followed by nighttime where temperatures plummet. On a day of 50c (I have been there) over night temps will be about 20-25c lower - still hot tho! So you get relief. You can and should sleep as it it lowers your body temp. If you have water (if not you will die of thirst really fast) and seek shade you can last as long as your water lasts. Very high temps have very low humidity - so it all comes down to that water. NO water = short life.
-15c Snow Case. In the snow we are faced with a different issue but water is there all around, so dehydration is not the problem. Heat loss is. Assume you are dressed appropriately for the cold: Warm hat, layers of full covering clothes, heavy boots.Again it is about the nighttime. When you sleep you will freeze to death. That night: unless you stay awake and move to stay warm but moving means breathing which means heat loss.
The temperature gradient in the hot example moves up and down by about 15c vs your 37c body temp. We can cope with that if we have water. In the cold example the gradient is 37c plus your -15c making it 52c. In the cold you get no relief and you must stay awake. If you sleep you will die. If not today, then tomorrow or the day after that.
You will freeze, long long before you die of heat.
Don't be too concerned about the Aussie outback.
Far more Australians die from skin cancer than all the animal attacks and heat stroke combined.
@@sandybutt9898 I was hanging out my washing late at night one night, and almost died of panic not knowing what had bite me on my finger. (Wondering whether it was a white tail or something similar, turned out to be a "bull-ant" bloody hurt for days...
You forgot the dropbears. They hate tourists.
You left out the talking spiders and crocs.
I have my transmission and diffs serviced every 40,000kms. Always have. Have never had a failure in my driveline.
Thank you for the advice.
Thank you for the excellent video John.
this is me... I need a new transmission in my prado. I'm getting it fully rebuilt... not cheep :(
"Tens of thousands of dollars" for a transmission failure? Are we talking about the largest Mercedes highway tractor truck?
A ride on a truck from dingo piss creak can't be cheap!
Wow, thank you very much, just what I was actively seeking to be educated on (given I bought a brand new Ford Ranger) and looking to do sand driving. 🙏 you’re a champion.
Just a word of warning. A friend's took it on the beach and ended up with sand in the engine. Air intake is in the wheel arch.......... you won't need to worry about the transmission. Lol
Have been researching about this for a while. Mostly got advice to go with what is in the owners manual. Great topic. Thanks.
No worries. Thanks for watching.
Thank you! Excellent and useful information, particularly the temperature/life graph. In the Torque app which I have just downloaded there are three methods of measuring transmission temperature, and three different readings. Does this mean temperatures in three different places, or that there is no temperature sensor, and temperature is calculated from three other proxies?
Generally there’s a sensor for the torque converter, and the transmission pan. The pan will run a little cooler than the torque converter. If you have 3. Then maybe you also have a sensor attached to the transmission cooler ?
Yehhhhhhsssssss. The old format is back (as of yesterday and the new Mighty king 🔧).
Now bring back the nuts and bolts episodes and Don't foget the squeaky high pitched Bogan voice
Yesssssssssssssssssss! Indeedy - it is. They are. Whatever.
Brilliant work thanks John. Yes, as a mechanic in Brisbane I flushed many Falcon " sealed " transmissions and even at 30,000 k's the fluid that came out was black. The most expensive, overlooked component.
I'm sitting on 145,000km / 13 years with a Aisin 60-40LE in my Astra, following the "sealed for life" mantra. So far, so good.... touch wood.
Too late to change now? 13 years old fluid can be wasted, though.
And “changing” the oil by dropping the pan is only changing 20-30% of the total volume of oil.
This is no different to any Auto Trans but this is another reason why changing oil often is important.
Unless you do a proper “flush” - which a lot of people and places won’t do without having the right tooling so all your going to get is approx 2.5L - 5L of oil changed depending on the vehicle. Even setting the level correctly can call for special dealer tooling if you don’t stick with the logic of “put back exactly what you took out” rule, then pull the level plug at (X) degrees Celsius. (Toyota is usually 40 degrees C which you can take via a IR Temp Gun at the pan, or via the OBD2 port (or for example by jumping a wire across pin 4 and 5 of the OBD2 plug and reading the temperature on the dash in some vehicles)
Changing the trans oil on a used car is one immediate “feel good” job because every time I have done it, the car drives so so much nicer.
Good topic John and it’s a subject that I managed to finally get 2 Ford representatives to admit that the “Sealed for Life” claim is in fact Marketing bullshit. :)
I have never dropped a pan and changed the full amount of trans fluid on more than a few cars.
@@RJ-jh9fs The manuals and refill guides generally lists the oil pan capacity only as thats all they want you to change and all you ever need to change if you do it regularly.
Doing a transmission and torque converter and system flush is a different animal done for different reasons but at least you can be sure that you have in fact changed 99% of the oil in the system during that one flush.
read the manual, there's a revolutionary suggestion, guru gold right there! Onya JC!
Great video, John. The running knowledge here in the US when towing is shorten the change interval when the trans is operated above 220F like you recommend. I followed a reasonable change interval, and made it over 353,000km before the transmission exhibited symptoms of failure. I was still able to tow my boat back through hilly terrain on a 95F day for 4 hours without failure. I have no doubt the trans would have failed much sooner (and catastrophically) without the cooler and regular changes. Toyota has removed the cooler from newer Tundras and there are many reports of high temps, even when not towing. The overheat alarm comes on around 300F!
Can confirm every word of your advise, based on personal experience. My VW Phaeton has a top class ZF transmission. All services done on time by an official VW service partner (total rip off). At 150'000 km transmission started to fail. He had it rebuild by a small independent garage for less than 2000$ (I'm not stupid enough to pay another 10'000$). The expert who did the rebuild, confirmed that the fluid was never changed. According to ZF's instructions, it should have been done every 50'000 km.
Same advice as I was given by a ZF authorised repair centre
10 - 20K AD? For transmission work! I replaced two transmissions in my Mazda B 4000 4x4 and it cost me 2200 USD on the first one and 2800 USD for the second one! The first went out at ~160K miles and the second one at 310K miles! Very little towing but lots of Interstate miles at 70-80 mph.
Bud, the $'s we're talking are modern DCT transmissions not some old tractor slushbox.
In your case the large external fluid cooler would have been of benefit as the speed you travel at imposes it's own "loads" on the transmission via aerodynamic drag on the body of the vehicle (brick outhouse moving quickly, sometimes with head winds) and high rotational speed of the trans components, plus heat soak from engine, radiators a/c etc. in the airflow over the outside of the trans. If you still own the vehicle perhaps fit one and a derale thermostat derale.com/product-footer/fluid-coolers/thermostats-1/fluid-control-thermostats and see if you can extend the overhaul periods? Or if you use a newer vehicle under the same conditions?
@@carsonj1 Oh righto then.. but to clarify he wasn't talking about 80's shitbox slushmatics then?
Perhaps we should go back to specifying a manual transmission when we buy a new vehicle 🤪🇦🇺😎📷
Yeah, you do that. Let's all go back in time. Maybe even get rid of power steering and brakes while we are at it.
@@bjgolledge If you are, you should get a rotary dial for your phone and use a dial-up modem to connect to the internet.
@@paulparoma But i do prefer the hydraulic power steering of the past compare to the modern EPS type. Modern EPS ones makes the steering feel like it has been injected with botox. I feel the road better with a hydraulic power steering system.
@@fleurdewin7958 I have no experience with EPS, but I believe you. I don't like tiny engines and do prefer a nice American V8, but that's almost gone.
Not possible when most modern vehicles are only built with two pedals. Which is one of the reasons I only buy older stuff.
Solid practical advice. Clutches will wear regardless, but heat kills.
Awesome video as always. Might add that selecting the right gear can also dramatically reduce ATF temperatures without the need of fitting an aftermarket transmission cooler.
Make Automatics Less Stressed
Many Automatics Leak Seriously
I've heard that if the fluid was never changed after 300,000km, it's better to keep it there. The transmission is probably so worn out that new fluid may cause slippage.
I heard that when I changed the fluid on an old Volvo with 300k+, but I changed it and it was a lot better.. so now I’d always change the fluid regardless, but I always change it all.. so you could keep the old fluid just in case!
You want to avoid a flush, but you should still do a regular drain and fill, that doesn't replace all of the fluid but the majority of it.
Thanks for making this informative video John. Love the shirt you're wearing. Ever thought of selling AutoExpert merchandise?
Thank you so much for this lecture!
I shift my auto into manual mode when towing a van at around 2.5t. otherwise the auto will select 5th gear and the torque converter unlocks and the temp of the trans fluid climbs from 79deg to over 95.. I Dont allow the torque converter to unlock and my temp climbs maybe 5 to 10deg at most on a long up hill climb.
Seems odd. Mine will downshift by itself when going uphill
@@davgpol it will on big hills but on slight inclines it unlocks the torque converter in 5th so I keep it in 4th and only use 5th on down hill runs.
City use do them more often.
Same with CVTs... if manual says 80k do item at 40k.
Not with the Subaru CVT's. Don't mess with them. They simply do not need it.
how can ya not like this guy,,, He knows his stuff
Thanks John just booked my 320k Prado 120 in for possibly its first auto service
At some point you are going to scare me into servicing my Auto! Only got 510,000 km on it so don't want to rush it.
Only replace half the fluid...the other half should last to 1 million k's! (Sarcasm/admiration alert)
2.2 Toyota Camry?
@@philking5740 AU2 Falcon
Must be a panty dropping AU Falcon box, eh?
Right in the sweet spot.
Plenty of time for working yourself up to getting it opened at 1 mil.
Here in Europe we drive manual transmission. That was true like 10 years ago. Now we want automatic. And there is a problem. Manual transmission failure rate statistically is never. Clutch goes bad at 200 000 km and that's it. There is recommended change transmission fluid every 80 000 km but even if you don't do that it's gonna be fine for 300 000 km. It just has to have those 2 liters of oil in it.
Now we have experienced; WV dual clutch, Ford dual clutch, Nissan CVT, Honda automatic, Mercedes (king of expensiveness and shitness)... And holly shit those things are bad.
Some of them are intentionally designed to fuck you like honda automatic. They have oil filter inside. You have to remove transmission to change oil filter. Labor costs arm and filter costs leg. If you change oil and filter transmission lasts 250 000 - 300 000 km if you don't then it 180 000 - 250 000 km. Just pure fuck you design
Manual or go without.
Hahaha...."Mercedes (king of expensiveness and shitness)"...yes it is indeed.
My neighbor lady got a small car from her husband who drove an 18 wheeler / Truck or Ute for days at a time as work changed. Her clutch last three days. Two days smoking and one day getting replaced.
Besides, if you work at a dealer and need someone to get cars and trucks parked, it’s hard to find someone to drive one.
Also, Honda’s service shows the transmission on the bench getting the filter changed. Look, as an ASE Master Tech since 1978 in the States, I have seen most everything, imports & domestics at dealers and corner shops. This whole business is going crackers. A 4 speed automatic had lockup torque converters and overdrive, now, they have 8 speeds, 9 or 10 speeds. Why? Does need to shift every time you exhale? Maybe it because my “Martini” should be shaken and not stirred! In the late 70’s I saw two Rolls Royce on a semi-truck trailer’s top row. At our dealer, our vehicles came off the bottom, but the Rolls had GM’s TH400 installed amongst the air suspension and 32 coats of hand rubbed lacquer. The two-tone was $6,000 US more. Boy, 32 coats, hand rubbed. I bet he was sore!
Today, guys put GM’s popular “LS” engine with twin turbos in everything from 32 Ford Coupes to 57 Chevy Bel Air, with a TH400 behind them. I just hate the idea of self-driving cars or trucks. Are they making these Bubba-Proof?
Or, as I say,”Put the cell phone down so you can drive faster, as they are already over the posted speed. Maybe they need to be home in their favorite chair, 14 seconds before I get into mine?
But I truly believe a well designed manual transmission with low internal friction losses and over drive. Hey, I like a good 6 speed stick. I just don’t want to pay $4,500-$6k for it. I can buy a 4L80E (Still has certain problems) or a 4L60E and build it to handle 600 horse ponies, even though many in the “LS” swap crowd with dual turbo’s will hate.
Hey, I built mine. You know what some say, “If you didn’t build it, it ain’t yours.”
Have a great day and keep the shinny side up.
@@deankay4434 Give me a new car, and I can destroy a clutch in 10 minutes if you want. Or I can drive it 150.00 km with the same clutch.
I always prefer manuals, I’ve had auto’s but I get bored, something about changing gear and listening to the engine, keeps my brain awake.
Awesome, thanks John.
Great videos 👍
Good topic because I was thinking mine might need a service. I'm going to have to grow a beard in order to stroke it... and the beard😁
Sounds like a two-handed assignment...
@@AutoExpertJC hahaha... probably depends how long it is😁🤣
@@SteveMack a piece of string 🤣
@@outlandyishrig2557 🤣😂
Does this apply to diffs as well?
Yes, especially Limited slip diffs (LSD) The "slip" components of the fluid can get degraded..so replace at the minimum at the "severe" service intervals recommended by the manufacturer. Ditto the front diff..and even if it is not LSD, you can use LSD fluid in a non-LSD diff...but not vice-versa. Transfer boxes...my OEM recommendation was that the transfer case fluid should match the gearbox fluid..in case of a seal failure and cross-contamination occurring..so my trans case gets filled with ATF because my gearbox is an auto running ATF. Refer to your owners manual or the workshop manual.
@@teenaramsay2469 Ditto what Teena said. Diff’s and divorced transfer cases are forgotten. The differential gets hot in hill county or during towing. There are good videos showing companies that find little air flow, little lube in the outer tubes and limited slip makes it worse unless it’s speed sensitive lockup. Either way, regardless of cheap or expensive fluids, they need the level inspected, color & small. Then if they can’t remember when it was changed, it’s due. Unless you send a sample to a lab, who’s to say what additives have broken down! Why chance it.
thanks this is really helpful, we just bought a 2013 Lexus es350 with 80k kms on it, and the mechanic suggested we do not need to change the transmission oil so soon, but after watching this, i reckon i must change this, afterall its only $180.
best explaination i had on transmission temperature