Magic’s Battle for Turn 1 - Design Club - Extra Credits Gaming
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2023
- Geoff and Will break down Battles in Magic: The Gathering while reacting to the Extra Credits episode Solving Magic’s Turn 1 Problem (see it here: • The Genius Behind MTG'... )
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Note on collosal dreadmaw: when it was first printed it was a solid card to play (not amazing, but you would want 1 or 2 of them), and people were even surprised how good it was for a common card. Part of this is that magic was slower, and part of it is that this was when removal was much worse, but now that both of those has changed he's unplayable.
I'm glad to hear you're exploring options like uploading these (and Breakfast) episodes to a third channel. I always watch these (and those) at 1.5x speed and can't catch them live because of my work schedule, so I'd really appreciate still being able to listen, since I love both series!
Yall've actually have already done a Break Points animated episode back in 2018 (5-ish years ago).
It is on the Extra History channel right now.
I'd still love to hear more examples of it on Design Dive. (Heck it came up in both this video and the Pokémon design club.)
I don't play magic, but I love game design, and I love somone who likes magic, so thanks for informing me on both.
I really hope VODs are included somewhere, I really enjoyed this and breakfast and I'm going to miss both from youtube. Would simulcasting be possible and then having the youtube VODs saved probably to a third channel?
While the interface to access them is aggressively mediocre (they only really care about live content, and it shows), twitch does retain vods of streams for some time.
@@Daemonworks I'm aware, I just don't wanna deal with twitchs awful VOD system
Thank you for still putting the design club twitch content to yt esp after you stopped putting the extra breakfast news on here. It means a lot esp from someone who is always working while you are live
oh, last episode? :(
i really likes these.
i dont have time to watch them live, because of my work i can only watch them a few weeks late most of the time. so twitch wont necessarily work for me, i hope you find a way to make these permanently available somehow
Those are some very good points. On how choises and desition volume may change the feel of the game, and how fulfilling the fantasy of the player may be one of the most importants aspects of a fun game. Great video 🤔
Bummer, goodbye Design Club. I'm going to miss watching you guys on CZcams.
We're starting to see the swing to make higher mana cost cards relevant in limited again. My favorite part is the introduction of landcycling as a deciduous mechanic on recent sets.
16:48 lifelink is damage, not just combat damage.
You guys are great! 💪💪💪💪
The was a standard turn 1 win with a green mongoose card too. I think it was possible to draft it as well. The mongeese were commons
Your Spirits deck was probably in the Explorer format, which does not rotate. It is still good, but not top tier right now.
If this is about limited magic, that discussion about lands that ETB untapped at 15:00 is far from relevant.
To answer your question at the beginning, i would. I would do worse. I would cast Shaharizad with Thousand Year Storm. Because its funny
Seeing this deep dive on magic made me wonder.... would it be possible for a "Games You Might Not Have Tried TCG Edition?" To give a bit of a synopsis and glimpse of other games such as Sorcery, Grand Arcana, Flesh and Blood, or other current Trading Card Games. Sort of shining a light on these lesser known properties like you've done for indie games and (I think I didn't imagine it) Tabletop RPGs in the past?
Flesh and blood...
Flesh and blood...
Flesh and blood...
But seriously, FaB has done such a phenomenal job at solving issues that MTG has it feels criminal how under discussed it is, especially with how exhausting WotC business practices are at the moment
Can you believe these guys inspired matpat?
43:42 WOOO! Eldar rangers. Shame they don't have a great roster in kill team.
I have no idea what "fork Sheherazade(sp?)" Is in reference to.
Sheherazade is an infamous spell that stops the current game and makes both players stop the current game and start a new game, with the winner of the new game getting an advantage in previous game once the new game finishes since the new games only stakes are said minor advantage It is considered a troll card since it takes up so much time.
Fork is a spell that copies another spell. So by doing this you can force two subgames in a row.
You guys are low fi bangers...no that is not a compliment
Disappointed with the move to twitch because I live in a weird timezone and will not be able to watch it live.
I think its fair to say that even with its many mistakes MTG surviving 30 years is a testament to how they have got it right thousands of times for each time they have got it wrong.
Modern is a bit of a frustrating format originally it was the wild west with all sorts of weird non-sense because it explicitly did not have cards such Force of Will that was mentioned. But due to the even older format Legacy becoming unaffordable there was a clear design decision to turn Modern into a format that more closely resembled Legacy but with cards that could be reprinted. So they decide to print sets explicitly just for modern which had the effect of 1. immediately breaking the format and 2. making it much more like legacy and 3. Now consisting mostly of cards from the sets that were explicated printed for modern. 1. easy to fix with bans. 2. Changed the nature of the format in ways some existing players didn't like. 3. Made it more expensive because now you needed cards from just a couple of sets.
Standard is struggling from self competition from arena but also because it seems like local game stores and a lot of players prefer to play the more social casual format of Commander. Which has a strong focus on social contract and getting to do cool stuff over competition. Were as Standard used to be the entry point for players a simplified game with limited pieces now it is the wide and varied format of commander where pretty much anything can happen and you'll have to do a whole lot more reading when cards you have never seen before get played.
It will be interesting to see where Magic goes next and if Standard will survive, or if the game will just split between casual commander and compedative Modern/Pioneer
Blue is the biggest reason I quit Magic Arena years ago. It's like the color's fantasy is to make the game unfun for everybody else. Overall, removal in Magic is so cost efficient and abundant that they just make most creatures not viable as an option to play. I love playing big creatures, so I just can't keep playing this game. Magic is great at creating fantasies but suck at letting those fantasies play out. It's like a politician who promises a hundred things and only delivering one of them. So slightly better than a politician. I don't know whether the game is well balance. Considering how many unviable cards exist, I'd say no. I definitely say it's a poorly design game (with some great design ideas) because how anti-fun it is. The fun is often built on other people's misery. There are other games where I have fun even when I lose. In Magic, sometimes I don't have fun even when I win because of how much I have to compromise my fantasy just to win. That 5% jank build working feels incredible. But the 95% you have to put up with is just not worth it. I'm not going to chase that high, no thank you.
Fwiw when i quit arena and started doing occasional draft nights with a few friends, mtg got a lot more fun
You. Are. Not. Entitled. To. Play. Every. Match. In. A. Multiplayer. Game. On. Your. Own. Terms.
@@zbaschtian I can play Street Fighter, for example, on my own terms. I might lose, but I can play on my own terms. Losing would be merely a skill issue. But I can go down doing what I want to do. That's what I mean by having fun losing. Yeah, you're right I'm not entitled to that in Magic. That's why I said it's a poorly designed game. That's why I don't play it anymore. The game is not entitled to my time.
@@greenlight5921there's plenty of play styles in fighting games that can be frustrating to some players. Zoners, fireball traps, rushdown and more can all fill this category. The equivalent to your aversion to blue is character banning.
So no, I don't see how fighting games are any better designed than MtG, and yes, it's a skill issue in that you lack the overall grasp of the game to play around and/or exploit an opposing pattern. There is a reason why Carpet of Flowers is such a great CEDH card.
@@zbaschtian I can counter those strategy with skills in Street Fighter. If you can't deal with that, it's a matter of lack of skill on your part. There's nothing I can do about a counter spell unless I use blue myself and counter that.
I can beat the world's best player in Magic if I give him a shitty deck and I play a great control deck. I can stop him from doing anything he want because his deck just suck. No matter how good he is, he is limited by his cards. But I cannot come close to beating the world best player in Street Fight no matter what character is chosen because he can always do his thing. I cannot stop him from doing his thing because it's purely a matter of skill.
First, why would you Fork a Shahrazad, when Burning Wish can find the currently resolving Shahrazad?
Battles are very poorly designed in a number of ways, and should not have been added to the game. I have *not once* seen a battle perform as described or improve a game.
You also made a variety of factual errors.
I think we won't know for sure if they missed the mark with battles until they revisit; WoTC is likely paying close attention to the data and giving it some time before the second iteration.
I agree 100% that aggro decks have the least incentive to play battles. Why give your opponents the extra turns they need to stabilize instead of just hitting their life total directly? That said, building a perfect aggro curve in Limited is challenging, and that makes the combat math trickier: are you willing to trade your blocker with a lower value creature to prevent them from flipping a battle? I believe there's some gameplay space where battles can thrive, but the lack of constructed impact is a good indicator that they haven't quite found it yet, especially in eternal formats.
This is by no means the only tool they have to increase early turn action density tho. I've been very excited since they started printing more landcycling 1-2 mana, as it's exactly what slower decks want to be doing in the early turns across a lot of formats, and it's probably the best way to solve losses to mana issues vs aggro short of reprinting mana rocks into Standard and Pioneer - which tbh I think the formats can fully support at the current power level: Irencrag accelerating a T3 wrath or emperor is a game-changer for Pioneer UW.