Salamanders vs Nightlords Horus Heresy 2.0 Battle Report Ep 84
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- čas přidán 15. 01. 2023
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Dave is back, and he brought Nightlords to today's 3,000 point match against Luka and the Salamanders.
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Vulkan was forced to watch this game on repeat when he was captured and tortured by Konrad Curze
Famous last words: "I'll give them a distraction to shoot at"
😅😅😅
Accurate Dropsite Massacre Re-enactment video. Love it though.
I swear this sexy Salamanders army instigated me years ago to get into HH. Those Matt Vlogs where he was introducing his new additions were the best thing ever.I have spent thousands of dollars ever since on heresy. If only Matt didn’t choose to do Heresy in 2015, I would be a lot richer now. But no regrets…😊
last time I was this early, Ferrus still had a head
I guess you could say you were ahead of everyone
Head and shoulders above everyone after you
You definitely cant take it on the chin anymore!
Vulkan is the avatar of khaine for 30k. He is constantly laid low in order to help emphasize how dire things are
Looks like Vulkan has come to hug brothers and chew bubblegum....and he's all out of bubblegum
That NL list is proper scary. Still early in the video, but I am predicting a near tabling for the Salamanders.
EDIT 1: @12:05 - Visually, the LR would have flattened or pushed the ruined Rhino aside, not driven over top of it.
Edit 2: @1:16:16 - Disagree. Corax is awful. If Curze is appropriately costed, Corax is hugely over-costed. With worse stats, worse Legion Sire rules, and the whole shrouded thing being negated by Night Vision (i.e. Curze on the table gives negation to his whole army) for only 10 points less than Curze...feels bad man. RG are crying.
I disagree. Corax is a bit overpriced yes, but he's also one of the very few Primarchs who will actually make his points back in most games. You don't need to give him a retinue for what his job is, and he doesn't need a transport. He's very resilient to shooting, and with his uber movement, he's not going to get caught by anything that can kill him in melee unless you are absurdly unlucky. He's also not a duelist in the fluff; he failed to even kill Lorgar in the time allotted. So him having good dueling stats would be weird. You send Corax into units you know he can mulch without much difficulty, mop them up, and move on to do it to something else. If things don't go your way, you Hit and Run. The Khan, Mortarion, Curze, and Corax are really the only Primarchs who are even remotely cost effective without having them specifically there to kill other Primarchs or Lords of War. Like good god poor Vulkan lol. Firedrakes are like 700+ points if you take a full squad, a Spartan is 350, and Vulkan is 465. So you get one painfully SLOW unit which is quite susceptible to tarpits for well over a 3rd of your points in a 3k game. I'd much rather field Corax than him.
@@DeusExMachina10001 - Agreed he is better than Vulcan, but you don't need a Primarch to mulch chumps. I am afraid to send Corax into a Leviathan that has a friend hanging back in support. Sure, you can choose your battles, but you can do that with the same points in good shooting.
I always felt he was about finish Lorgar, but Curze intervened. I also felt that he believed he could have matched Curze, but not with Lorgar there. I seem to remember he believed he could beat G man too (win the battle, but not the war - as he admitted Guilliman was the better strategist).
@@andrewbakescakes9684 Bit of an essay so bear with me;
There are only a few Primarchs who I would feel comfortable with sending into a Leviathan in the situation you outlined; Ferrus, Russ, Horus, the Lion, and Perturabo. Maaaaybe Vulkan but he's going to be there a while if he engages. Primarchs aren't needed to kill chaff, but Primachs in general are not a good use of points. You are usually not going to kill enough stuff in an average game to make back the cost of the unit regardless of what you engage. Like with Vulkan, the vast majority of them need a transport and a bodyguard on top of their base cost, and you are running well into the 700+ point range there. They exist for fun, not effectiveness or efficiency. There are four, maybe five exceptions to that. Mortarion, Corax, Curze, and the Khan are the definite four, Sanguinius is the borderline case. Corax is not exactly flashy, but if you use him properly he is far, far more likely to have been a good investment than most of his brothers. I would prefer him to be a bit better too but making him into a duelist is not fluffy because;
There is no way in hell Corax could have fought Curze and not died. Curze has beaten the Lion, fought the Lion and Guilliman 1v2, and stalemated Sanguinius. Sanguinius just recently manhandled Daemon Angron, so Curze is in the uppermost tier of Primarch duelists for sure. He's got the feats. Corax's only Primarch duel saw him fail to kill Lorgar. Pit him against any of the heavy hitters like the Lion, Russ, or Sanguinius, he's going to get pasted. Corax was absolutely full of it thinking he was one of the best Primarch duelists; he's not even in the top half. Even the Lion only survived against Curze because of his Spider Sense on a few occasions. Corax would have no chance.
Corax was talking about beating Guilliman in a trio of tactical war-game scenarios, not a duel. The situation was that Guilliman thought that using Moritats and civilian terrorists units was stupid, and then Corax beat him in 3 battle scenarios using them. Guilliman realized that Corax was right, changed his tune, and from then on Guilliman won every battle they fought.
I think Corax was not well tested, since he was sort of sidelined early in the heresy. You made good points though. Curze can see into the future, but Corax can hide himself. Would he be able to hide his "future" from Curze? I don't know well.
Thanks for clarifying re: Gman. I misunderstood, and so I will concede that you have that match-up right.
But on the discussion of Primarchs, while I agree that they are not meant to kill their points, they are meant to also be survivable, killy, a duelist, or provide great buffs through their Legion Sire rules.
Curze is a great duelist and has great Sire rules. Lion is pretty killy but has awful Sire rules (though his charge rule makes up for that). Vulkan is not killy, but very survivable. Alpharius is sort of only killy vs vehicles, but has amazing Sire rules.
Corax....? Seems to have lower survivability (so many ways to cancel shrouded!), decently killy but vs. chaff only, and a weak Sire ability. Scout?! Really? Everything you would bring has Scout already (almost). Yet again, RG have a redundant instance of a rule for no benefit.
I guess his good point is he is "cheap", in that, as you said, he doesn't need a retinue or transport. At least he can shoot both his pistols...
@@andrewbakescakes9684 I agree that Corax was not well tested, because I don't think the game itself was well tested. For instance, the Legion Trait for IF and IW are incredible, whereas the poor RG and TSons Traits are just embarrassingly bad. Nobody bothered to double check those.
I don't think Corax could use his invisibility power in combat. There were so many instances where that would have been useful where he didn't use it that there's no way it wouldn't have occurred to him to use it if he could.
I don't know in the fluff between Bobby and Corax who wins. Guilliman held his own against Angron, Daemon Magnus, and Daemon Mortarion however, so I'd have to go with him. He's just got the better feats. As far as their talents are concerned, Corax is a better battle tactician, Guilliman is the better grand strategist. So Corax is more likely to win a battle, Guilliman is more likely to win a war.
Curze is actually not optimized for dueling. He's got no hit re-rolls, S6 sucks, his defenses are completely average, his psychic power is meme tier garbage, and he has no Brutal modifiers. Also his retinue options kinda suck compared to what a lot of other Legions get. What he IS really good at, in a totally un-fluffy way, is buffing the NL. Night Vision is 15 points a pop, and he gives it for free to everything but vehicles. Bloody Murder is also very synergistic army wide, and having Fear Immunity is also very useful. The King of Terrors is also extremely good; you can end up Pinning half your opponent's army for free with some luck. So he SHOULD be a duelist, but instead he's a buffer, and so he's still very good.
I agree completely with the niches that in-game Primarchs are supposed to have. I also agree that Corax's rules suck; he was far better last edition, and he didn't need to be nerfed. He certainly wasn't OP in any way. But the thing is, I'd actually argue that Corax's poor status is due in large part to the RG in general being bad. They are so poorly written that they are almost downright clumsy, which is just painful to see.
Corax does in fact have a niche. It's far from glamorous, but it is important. He's very, very good at killing scoring units. The only Primarch who is similarly good at that is the Khan. He's so mobile that roadblocking him is difficult, he's got Hit and Run in case something does somehow catch him, and he's hard to kill at range. Once he gets in, he'll blend the scoring unit, and then And, like we've been discussing, he's price effective.
If I was to fix Corax, I'd probably leave his dueling prowess alone. Like Alpharius, he's neither demonstrated to have been a particularly good duelist, nor is it in his Legion's character. They are ninjas, not brawlers. If you see RG coming, they already fucked up. His Sire rules most definitely need fixing however. Giving out something like Infiltrate would be nice. I also think a really good thing to do would be to have Corax not only stack Shrouded army wide, but have him give a buff to Shrouded saves against stuff like Night Vision. Like if Corax is on the field, have Night Vision not completely negate Shrouded but instead reduce its effectiveness by some amount. RG are supposed to be sneaky, but they just aren't this edition. Also, if an Alpha Legion Saboteur can have the rule that he can't be targeted by Shooting until he's engaged something, Corax should have something similar. The man can become literally undetectable to organic lifeforms if he's not fighting, he should not just be Shouded 4+.
Edit grammar
In Midnight Clad!
Could we see 30k world eaters they seem to be a rare army these days
That's because GW refuses to make plastic close combat units.
Great game. I love my Deredeo, I always bring mine
Shred is failed wound rolls. Charging through difficult terrain drops your initiative to 1 (the crater would have dropped the dreadnoughts initiative to 1 as it does not have frag grenades).
Yay Nightlords
The more interesting boys in blue.
Thank you!
Sweet game!! Very cool objective! I think it could be improved with a very simple change. Instead of rolling at the beginning of the first 3 turns. What you should do is on turn 2 or 3, you roll 3d6 or 4d6 one time, and thats where the objective lands for the rest of the game. That gives both players a somewhat realistic chance to affect a battleplan. This method should create more interesting and meaningful counter play between players, because once the objective is deployed and there is no more randomisation. You can commit to something.
Vulkan Lives!
Great postgame!
I am new to heresy, but I believe that you can't have more than one 'master of the legion' so can't have a preator and a primarch. Unless night lords are different?
Shred only allows you to reroll fails. No fishing for rends/murderous strikes sadly
I know Luca said they want to play the community but I just mostly wanna see Josh.
Josh V Matt
Josh V Steve
Josh v Luca
And One day the glorious…
Josh V Josh
My two armies in a batrep! ❤
Both my boyz fighting one another? This ain't right. It just ain't right... but i had to watch cuz one of my boyz is gonna win! Hell yeah! Winnah!
The moment around 24mins when Luka realises his Termis are surrounded on three sides 😂
Been there, Luka 👍
That was the moment the game ended. The rest of the game is irrelevant his fate is written at that point.
people keep telling me how good firedrakes are, but all I see are 65 point models dying to bolters
This was pretty shockingly awful rolling, so don't judge them on this alone
Hey I think they are only 60 pts (totally different) but yeah poor rolling plus a lack of battle hardened or similar rules is a painful mix for the video. Not that they need it it's just quite the loss per model
Thats some really bad rolling
Ave dominus nozx
It would be nice to see a HH bat rep without Primarchs in it…. Just gets a bit boring.
Vulkan Lives!