Why China's Stolen "Stealth" Fighter is Problematic
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
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0:00 Is J-20 a stolen fighter jet?
3:12 Did the J-20 Mighty Dragon use Russian engines?
4:50 How the time gap gives the J-20 and edge over the F-22 Raptor
6:01 Optery: Keep your private data private
7:26 J-20's sensor and number advantages over the F-22
8:54 Why did China need a stealth fighter? (J-20 Mighty Dragon)
10:46 Why the J-20 doesn't have a gun
12:06 What is US Government's response to the Chinese J-20 Mighty Dragon?
Why the west should not underestimate this Chinese stealth fighter, is #NotWhatYouThink #NWYT #longs
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Linda Low - Lucention
Evalanche - Anthony Earls
Orcas - Marten Moses
Stellar Minds - DEX 1200
Particle Emission - Silver Maple
Mortal Blow - Dream Cave
Serious Development - Blackout Memories
Stellar Finale - FormantX
Footage:
Select images/videos from Getty Images
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US Department of Defense
Note: "The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement."
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Can you make a video about the XQ-58A please 🙏
the J-10 was a stolen IAI lavi
they somehow got the blueprints a while after the lavi was discontinued
so them copying stuff from the F-22 is rather likely
Your video misses critical information regarding the modernization of the F22.
Current upgrades already installed were designed to enable the F-22 to ID targets at longer ranges, respond more efficiently to sensor input, sustain an air-to-air combat superiority over near-peer rivals and lay down a technical foundation such that the aircraft can quickly embrace new weapons, technologies, sensors and software as they emerge.
The specific weapons improvements for the F-22s to massively expand its target envelope, air-to-air attack range and lock-on-launch precision. The upgraded F-22s are now able to track and destroy enemy targets flying behind them, hit air targets with much greater force, precision and destructive power and include new GPS jam-resistant technologies.
The US Airforce has recently designated the F22 as their highest priority, and are set on upgrading it to last past the 2040s and into the 2060s, a change from their earlier plans to retire them.
This is in response to the appearance of competing foreign 5th gen fighters and the time still needed to develop and build their fleet of NGADs for the Navy and Airforce.
Lockheed is also adding hardware-external low drag tanks and pylons-to the jet so it can hold more gas when it’s refueled, giving it more range and the ability to go farther or stay on station longer.
Technology developed from the NGAD programme is also to be incorporated into the F22's formally slated for retirement by the 2030s, essentially upgrading the aircraft to Gen5++
The F22 will remain in service past the 2040s, possibly until 2060, and will remain the world's premier warplane until 6th Gen aircraft make their appearance.
@@God-ch8lq You're aware the J-10 uses a long-coupled canard design like the Eurofighter, rather than a close-coupled canard design like the Lavi, right?
ok, you said why the west should fear the J20, i don't see any good reasons , the f35 is way more stealthy than J20 according to this video
and U.S have thousand of F35 , U.S is already like so many miles ahead when compared to China military
America: “We don’t know what Chinese jets are capable of, but our flighter jets are much better than theirs.”
Reporter: "????"
This kind of propaganda is meat to make you feel well and sleep well.
The J-20 is an interceptor, not a fighter. It's designed to cover the long distances of the South China Sea with speed, launch big telephone-pole sized long-range air-to-air or air-to-surface missiles at strategic targets like AWACS, tankers, ships, and land bases, then return to base and reload. It's not a dogfighter.
The PLA's doctrine is to overwhelm enemies with quantity, in this case quantity of missiles - land-launched, sea-launched, and air-launched simultaneously. Blanket the entire SCS in missile barrages. And they're producing both those missiles, and their launch platforms (J-20, Type-055, subs, land launchers, etc) in quantity. That's the real problem they're creating for US and allied forces in the region, quantity + range, not any one particular platform.
the one big advange the J-20 has that most channels don't mention is range.
1. Interceptor not a fighter: often parroted but nothing from Chinese source indicate this. Its much more likely that it is meant to do both, and the canards help significantly with maneuverability. No guns but it has short ranged IR missiles for dogfights, which is the primary modern weapon for dogfights. Btw only F35A airforce variant comes with internal guns.
2. Overwhelm enemies with quantity : again a Western projection, just like how the Chinese were portrayed using human wave attacks in the Korean war or Russians in the Ukraine war. Of course more stuff is better but it is not much of a doctrine. The Chinese doctrine is symmetrical with US doctrine and emphasizes networking and system of systems. If you are talking about saturation attack then it is not really about quantity but rather coordination of assets which does go back to the system of systems idea.
Damm good thing the us still has a baller ass fleet of f15s which are still the fastest interceptors in existence
It depends. An interceptor isn’t good at BVR (engaging, defending, recommitting), but a fighter is. The J-20 as far as we can tell has good kinematic performance at high Mach.
Drone swarms negate Chinese numerical superiority.
When talking about production numbers compared to the f22, the j20 has more, but you also must point out that the f35, which the US is dumping far more resources into, has well over 1000 units made, quintupling the j20.
Never mind that NGAD and NGNF are basically right around the corner.
Both the Raptor and F-35 are continually improving. The Raptor is set to receive low observable drop tanks that will boost its range considerably and not leave a bunch of pylon on the jet if dropped. Also, the F-22 is getting what are thought to be IRST pods as well. The F-35 is getting some new upgrades in the upcoming production batches, as well as the planned block 4 upgrades coming soon.
F-35 is not an air superiority fighter. It's a multi-role jet and while at BVR manuverability doesn't matter much, when both of you have enough stealth to only see eachother out the window then it matters. Also china is developing J-35 or FC-31 that is an F-35 clone.
It's a numbers game when stealth is equivalent and china has the production advantage
You must, or at least should, begin to understand everything you desperately(or is it intentionally?) fail to.
The F-35 is a useless POS. A useless money pit used to enrich politicians and the MIC.
Meanwhile ALL fighters are useless because Russia and the nations they’ve sold to, possess hypersonics.
Hypersonic missiles make ships irrelevant. Runways irrelevant. And you can be sure, the hangers storing the useless money pit F-35s irrelevant.
@@Userext47
Reminder F35 is far ahead of Junk-35 because F35 is getting constant upgrade.
Junk 35 is still in the womb while F35 is basically matured.
the j-20 looks like an illegitimate son of the stealth fighter family
Nice cope
J-20 LIKE DRAGON FLY
That’s what happens when you build vehicles using stolen tech
It's the 6-fingered, cross-eyed child of inbred twins...canards on stealth design...smh
We all know what happened to Goliath and the Hare.
The F-22 was actually just updated to have an IRST pod and stealthy external pylons
Yeah just over a week ago, it supposedly got new stealthy external fuel tanks and IRST pods which can be mounted on the wings or under it
That's good to hear.
@@StrontiumXCwhich makes the stealth on those planes worse.
@HairLessBush Lol, are you sure about that? These tanks and pods are brand new designs, and quite stealthy. Not like.... canards.
@@HairLessBush they're literally designed with stealth in mind bro don't think you're smarter than the engineers at Lockheed martin
Correction. The F-22 was designed in the 1980s.
Obsolete design.
@@silveriver9 I see, so that is why still everyone is trying to copy the F-22.
@@silveriver9 OR a design the opponents have yet to match, which seems to be more likely the case since the russian and chinese stealth fighters are actually detectable by most radar without picking up any clutter. Stealth is the invention of the crackheads over at skunk works and they are doing quite well with being the only ones truly capable of it
@@Schnittertm1 Aug 30th fleeing Afgnstn in the middle of the night with tail between legs 😂😂😂
@@silveriver9what that gotta do with the f22 though?
The F-22 is getting a 16-billion-dollar upgrade according to Sandboxx.
I love sandboxx
@@henrymckay9205 me, too, dude.
In US, 16 billion dollar can get u a spanner. 😂
what are the upgrades?
@@shikharashish7616 Stealth fuel tanks and some IR pods or something, i don't remember everything but it was a decent upgrade
The F-22 is undergoing a *_massive_* upgrade. You should make a video about it.
😂😂😂
Yeah, by getting retired after doing absolutely nothing.
Be glad they did absolutely nothing. Moron. @@antoniohagopian213
@@antoniohagopian213You want them to use them?
they did show a picture of the f22 with stealth pylons
Appreciate what you do , love the channel!!!!!
the f22 they had at home lmao
But reshaped to resemble a Gripen/ Typhoon😂
F35>F22>F15Ex>J20
cropduster>j20@@gazzman6547
The most important aspect of modern fighters is situation awareness, and that's where F22 falls behind both F35 and J20 (or any future stealth fighters) as F22's avionics are outdated. And it's hard for F22 to improve as it didn't leave much room for upgrade due to its original tight design. So J20s don't care about F22 great maneuverability if their avionics could detect F22s earlier and thus attack F22s from a long distance and b4 the latter's “great maneuverability” (if it's a lot greater than J20s' to begin with) becomes relevant.
oh did my credit score go down sorry oh great winnie the poo@@TellenJones
A big heat signiture will not be picked up by radar. However, it will be picked up with any IR or thermal systems, like IRST.
It's because the unburnt fuel as well as the flames from the afterburner show up on radar
@@autoroller3391interesting. do u have any good reading about this u could link?
No gun is giving me f4 phantom vibes
The F-35 B and C variants also have no gun as standard, though I think the B can be fitted with one in a pod under the fuselage as the mission requires.
The MiG-25 and MiG-31 don't have guns either. Interceptors don't need one because they wouldn't be able to make much use of one anyway.
I believe highly restrictive rules of engagement is the primary reason the F4 Phantom got into dogfights.
If there's an air war near China they're most certainly not going to be fighting with such rules of engagement.
Missile technology has evolved greatly since the Vietnam war. We won't know for sure, but the smaller aerial engagements we've seen since then indicate that guns likely will not be very useful.
@Wishalloy They didn't. The Phantom scored kills with missile, only a handful were by gun.
You lost me at "the heat signature of the afterburner would be visable on radars."
Its a propaganda channel
Should have said sensors.
@@NeostormXLMAX Psst.
Tiananmen Square massacre 4 June 1989
@@NeostormXLMAX lao gan ma 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
@@NeostormXLMAXif you think that watch his other vids
Minute 4: "the heat signature of the afterburner would be visible on radar". Are you sure???
Peak propaganda
the concern that having to rely on afterburner for high speed is true, they can easily be spotted with mk1 eyeball and show up on IRST. but i guess the writer fumbled and thought radar would also apply
@@piscessoedroen kid there's no long range fox 2 in yankee arsenal. So even if you somehow manage to see with a irst that far you can't do anything about it😂
@@antoniohagopian213 you can still lock it optically and guide a missile to it
@@piscessoedroen guide what? I already said there is no long range fox2.
Fox 3 still requires a radar lock otherwise it's not going to track anything but will go off the rail anyway.
Last time i checked no 5th gen aircraft has a battle record worth mentioning
Air-to-Air anyway.
I believe the 22 and 35 have a ton of Air-to-Ground kills.
F35 has such, in Israel
@@mrunknownog9616 is that a joke 😆
@@rajaydon1893they’ve shot down close to about a dozen drones and missiles so far.
@@mrunknownog9616targeting babies
Why does the entire video ignore F-35? I get it's for the sake of argument and a more relative comparison, but the major reason why US has soo little F-22 cause it was a mostly prototype plane that didn't needed to be produced in such vast quantities back then. Now US has built over 1000 F-35 which are way more suitable for mass production and is a straight upgrade to F-22.
Oh dear god thank you, finally someone actually understands that in a real conflict, the f35 is insanely more useful than the f22
@@luckycorn8590 I love the f22 but the 35 is soooo much better
Because you should compare F35 to J35 instead.
@@elmohead bot
The F-22 was not just a prototype. It was planned to replace the F-15 in the air superiority role. Then the Soviet Union collapsed and nothing took its place, so the orders were cut way back.
It looks like a re engineered F-22
Or like someone described an F22 over the phone
It literally is
-10000 social credit !
i fucking love how it looks
It does look cool
The Mighty Dragon is an interceptor and that’s it. It’s made to do long range interception/interdiction of our tankers and AWAC force multipliers. It will use its stealth to get deeper into the airspace and then fire long range AA missiles to pick off those assets from a safe distance. They have no intention of it dogfighting at all.
But it has fucking canards you dont put that shit on something unless you intend for it to have some dogfighting capacity
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Canards are needed for all types of fighters! Did any past plane designed without a see through window or canard?
Made by Temu lol. Now we know what data it actually collects. American stealth aircraft documents.
Temu is an online platform, not a manufacturer of any products. Not very bright are you? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@silveriver9 Swing and a miss.
@@joedufour8188That guy talking about Temu is probably a Chinese bot lol
@@joedufour8188 The world saw who fled Afgnstn in the middle of the night with their tail between their legs. 3 strikes you're out! 😂😂😂
That was over your head, just like the F22 is over the J20😂@@silveriver9
Why are you comparing this to the F-22 without mentioning the upgrade package for the F-22 that's has been happening since 2020 and let alone the F-35 which could easily wipe out the J-20.
Oh the F-22 that is retiring by 2030? Yeah guess they are having a massive upgrade by removing it lmao
@@Doge_Spartan Lmao they aren't retiring it by 2030. Just google it, takes you 2 seconds they've changed their mind and have been putting massive amounts of money into them. I mean a story from the Air and Space forces magazine just 2 days ago say that the fiscal budget request reports shows that by 2030 they will have upgraded them with about 7.8 billion dollars. that's not including the 3.8 billion they spent between 2020 and 2022.
It's probably copied off of the old version so it's a fair comparison in that regard
@@Animeaniac215 Those upgrades are to give them extra juice to fight, due to growing threats, until NGAD is fully operational and will slowly replace the F-22, which will be in the mid 2030s.
cope
"mom i want a stealth airplane"
Mom: we have that at home (j20)
why is the F22 being matched up against the J20? what is the point?
The large range distances in the pacific will result in engagements between F22 and J20 few and far between, considering how they have to operate from land bases such as Guam/Korea/Japan etc.
wouldn't it make more sense to compare the J20 with F35C? where carrier operations will allow them to operate nearer to chinese shores, and thus more likely to engage J20?
Or the new FX.
Cause everyone is obsessed with F22 even the CCP trolls are secretly a F22 fanboy maybe even Winnie the Xi is probably a secret F22 fanboy. It's funny just look how China is trying so hard to copy F22 they even send spies to USA to steal the blueprints.
The primary thing that makes the F22 irrelevant is that it's not being produced any more and there are only 186 F22s; many of which are non operational at any given moment.
Those carriers can come under attack from Chinese navy too. So those carriers will definitely be staying quite a distance away.
@@dallasyap3064 correct. But no relevance to the topic above.
I find it amusing that it took over 40 years for a aircraft to be designed and built that could compete with the F-22. NGAD is going to be wicked scary when it makes its appearance.....
Not even compete. The public knowledge of the Raptor's radar signature is over 5x more stealthy nearly 30 years before the Chinese chitter.... It's not even a competition.
Nobody on this channel knows the actual capabilities
@@olli1407 we have the minimum (likely not full) capability of the f-22 truth be told its publicly stated radar signature could be at an angle that isn’t the best
Unbiased videos are essential. who wins in real world will be decided in conflicts/wars.
I guess the thing about how all the 5th gen now looks the same it's prolly cus how optimal the F-22 was designed to this day even after everyone else testing their own design it still can't beat the F-22 foundation look, so everyone decided to copy that but alter it slightly
Exactly. It's similar to how all SUVs look mostly the same, the design is converging on an optimal aerodynamic shape they all share.
Wrong. All US stealth planes are based on a Russian research paper by Piotr Ufimtsev, who was the pioneer on stealth. He was the one who found a mathematical formula with which the radar cross section of an aircraft could be calculated, and according to which the most ideal shape to reflect the highest amount of radar away from the source is a diamond shape. It's for this reason that all stealth airplanes look alike; they're all designed based on the same mathematical formula, and with the ideal stealth airplane shape already having been determined (the aforementioned diamond), it leaves no room for variation, if you want an airplane with a very low radar cross section yet still very aerodynamic then you're always going to end up with a F-22 like design. The US just happened to be the first ones to use Ufimtsev's formula to actually build an airplane with. Not the F-22, but the F-117, which due to the lack of computing power back in the day had such a strange look to it. It's the diamond shape with a V-tail added to it, and it's wings swept back, but other than that a very close resemblance to the diamond shape. The F-22 is an even better aproximation, even it's wings are diamond shaped, and thanks to more modern computing power they were able to compute a more aerodynamic blend while still retaining low RCS.
@@pieterveenders9793that was a mathematical formula and not a plane design and was only really directly relevant to the F-117.
This is complete rubbish, three companies in the US have developed stealth aircraft and none of the other designs look like this. The only planes that look like Lockheed Martin designs are the ones that are copying Lockheed Martin designs.
The NGAD will look nothing like the F22 because the F22 is not the ultimate design for a fighter.
Actually, it's because we all follow the same laws of physics.
The J-20 might have *some* advantages over the F-22, such as the F-22 having less capable sensors - but the F-35 still holds just about everything over the J-20 besides maneuverability and range.
+ it cannot supercruise (the F-35)
F-22 just completed a 3 Billion dollar makeover, including the sensors from the F-35. Yes it can even see behind itself
Of the 3 heavyweight dual engine stealth aircraft J-20 is the least maneuverable. It has the slowest minimum turn rate. You can even see this at the recent Zhuhai airshow. It's not a fighter but an interceptor meant to take out large aircraft like AWACS and tankers with PL-15. F-35C on the other hand has Typhoon's wing loading and can replicate the same tight turns F-22 or Su-57 can do in a dogfight. While F-35A has Gripen's wing loading. But most importantly J-20 don't have a gun. So its better for J-20 to hit then run instead of initiating dogfights.
@@JohnJohnson-ze1ggno, it didn’t
contract signed doesn’t equal to just getting the things done
NGAD should be the new focus
-cope from armchair westoid who happens to also be a PLA air force general 😂
Sandboxx news has a video about all the upgrades the F-22s are currently getting, including infrared search and track targeting pods.
3:20 I've never heard of after burners showing up on radar however the ability to supercruise is important because afterburners burn a ridiculous amount of fuel as well as reducing the IR signature
5:30 A. most countries don't have IR guided bvr missiles so even aircraft with infrared search and track wouldn't be able to engage a stealth fighter with out a radar lock or being close enough to fire a fox2
B. The thing about stealth is if it gets close enough you're going to get a return so it's not like a stealth aircraft is immune to a radar guided missile
C. It's worth noting that the f22 is being updated to have a infrared search and track system installed in fact it's scheduled for testing around this time of year
“Wouldn’t be able to engage without radar lock. . .” With that logic what’s the point of IRST? I’m pretty sure that you can guide a radar guided missile with IRST, so you can use a radar guided missile as soon as you can see the enemy, regardless of how you find them.
BVR missiles to date are radar-guided, but with datalink relays already on place, a BVR IR missile isn't impossible. You can have one plane ID the target, relay it to a launch platform that is running silent, the launch platform sends it off, and the missile heads to the target, getting a handoff to the targeting plane for mid-course correction and then taking over final targeting on its own. The advantage is no radar signal to pick up, and the missile can come in from an unexpected direction.
@@jakammor4449 you're pretty sure of nonsense. If you use the irst to lock something the radar can't find the missile will not track anything and wilk simply go off the rail. The Soviets used those long ago and that's why they had long range fox2 and the ability to "focus" the radar by using the electro optical system. The main use however has always been high off boresight fox2 missiles for dogfights since it moves with the pilot's head and has way more movement upwards then what the radar has. The Russians have perfected their implementation and use of those. And no fail35 is junk and can't do that because it's irst is under the nose instead of above. Because it's not a fighter not matter how hard they claim is it. Instead of using a targeting pod they built it in the nose. Basically copying the Su-25T.
@@antoniohagopian213BVR missiles are guided by the firing plane for the majority of their flights. Radar-guided missiles only rely on their own radars at relatively close ranges, where stealth is less effective.
Missiles can receive updated targeting data throughout their flights. The source of that data isnt relevant because, whether the firing solution comes from radar or IR, the information is transmitted to the missile via code.
In short, an F-35 can certainly fire an AMRAAM and guide it to target using solely IRST
@@jakammor4449 part of the use is for dogfighting a short range IR guided missile like the aim 9 only has a relatively small bore sight so it won't be able to see a bandit if the nose of the aircraft isn't pointing at or near the bandit however an aircraft with a IRST can provide targeting data to the missile, so a pilot can fire a missile at the bandit regardless of relative positions just by looking at the bandit the most famous example of this is the F35.
other than that though IRST systems are way shorter range than radars (gernorius estimates put their range at 30 miles) they could be useful for identifying contacts
Stock footage - check
Wikipedia 'facts' - check
no new or interesting info - check
... Yep it's a 'not what you think' video....
Nope. Both F-35 and F-22 still has the 1st kill opportunity maybe even a 2nd one as J-20 is already proven to be less stealthy.
Hypothetically i could see the j20 spotting the f35 first though, with VHF radars placed on islands in the south china sea the j20 could maybe know where to point its radars and have an estimated range and direction of an f35 before the f35 is even within amraam range (this assumes that the radar stations can communicate with commanders on land. So it might be good to focus on jamming comms if you're going against china)
@@helpmedaddyjesus7099 Everyone can see stealth aircraft with EWR or other radars (low frequency) the hard part is getting a high enough data track with a weapons radar (high frequency) to be able to engage the target.
Source?
@@helpmedaddyjesus7099 those really aren't accurate enough at range for that
1ST. Their is a 3rd party radar scattering CAD simulation done on Aircraft 101. Without RAM coatings, they compared all 3 F-35, J-20, and Su-57 low observable LO characteristics through their shapes/geometry alone. Data is taken from basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics()wordpress. Replace () with a .
In a 20x20deg frontal aspect, "J-20 RCS is higher than F-35A RCS through the frequency range (approximately 3.5 times in X-band, 1.5 times in VHF band), it still has much better RCS characteristic when compared to Su-57.”
This mean even with the same RAM coatings used on the F-35, J-20 much more Su-57 can’t make up the difference in total RCS reduction given their LO properties/geometry. So F-35 definitely has the “first look, first shoot, first kill” in beyond visual range BVR.
2ND. Both Pacific Air Force (PACAF) head Gen. Wilsbach and US Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Brown assessment of J-20 as “It’s not anything to lose a lot of sleep over” when F-35s were able to close in on J-20s and observe them near Japan.
3RD. J-20's canards and the whole vertical stabilizers are moving.
Hope you can have a video about Type055
🇺🇸There is no medium voltage DC drive technology, so it is impossible to assemble four bands of high-power radar 🙊🙈🙉, and they do not have YJ-21! They can't brag, they can't make videos, F22 can only rely on balloons to prove themselves, J20 has produced more than 500!😊😊😊
americans always said “SU-57 sucks,J-20 is trash”, so idk if this is real or just a made out, just to make american looks still the best in air forces
That’s what I’m thinking
There are like 15 Su57, worth nothing since they can't even be deployed in Ukraine.
J20 is the copy of the F22 that is an old af design, also there are confirmations about next gen anyways.
Those facts alone make it obvious why the other 5th Gen aircrafts are trash against an obsolete design, not because the looks but because the others are not even being put in use. For better or for worse there are plenty of evidence about F22 and F35 being used and both serving their roles.
Having war machines at work don't make Americans look good at all, but it's pretty obvious that the claim about China or Russia having better technology is bs.
Americans are unbearable, but they're the only ones we got against China
@@Syokool this is exactly what i was talking about, every american said the exact same thing, so idk if you guys got brain wash or both the SU 57 and J20 really suck, america usually use propaganda to make them looks really strong, always….
Regardless if they are trash or not, the US has the best air force in the world. The US has more stealth aircraft and aircrafts in general then China and Russia combined.
As a Chinese lemme try to answer some of this in a nutshell for those who don't wanna watch the entire thing
Was J20 stolen?: yes and no or at least 80% of it. Go research Subin f35 and f22 then you will come across one of the biggest compromises of US military intelligence. F22 and F35 were partially stolen and C17 was also stolen which lead to the development of Y20
Did it use russian engines?: Initially yes but now switched to a more stable ws15 engines but pretty much just reversed engineered russian ones with slightly better life span and thrust by a decent margin a decent margin
Time gap advantages?: Hardly any for J20. F22 was designed to dominate the skies for the next couple of decades when it first flew which US already accounted for enemies having stealth technology as well. What they didn't account for is how would it try to dethrone the raptor from the 1st spot
J20's sensors advantages over F-22: If we only look at this on paper then J20 dominates the f22 by a good amount. However, most of these crap we don't even know if it works properly but who knows? F22 is getting a couple billion dollar upgrade as well so nobody knows but the upgrade certainly removes the gap for sure. what I do know for certain is that J20 defo have a irst and head mount display advantage over the f22 since these tech russians have done it over and over again (even though the performance is dog water)
why China needs J20: to project power outside of China specifically Taiwan and Japan duh. Also to match against American peers if US decided to interfere in Taiwan
why doesn't it have a gun: When you have missiles as your primary weapon and you won't dogfight anyways why would you need it?
US government response to J20?: the video mentions NGAD but the true threat still lies in pl15 being superior in range. Aim 260 was the response
Overall J20 should not be feared but taken seriously for sure. A jet is a jet just like a gun. A shitty gun can still kill people like how a higher quality gun would. J20 may not be invincible or good against F22 or F35s but certainly a bigger than ever threat to 4th gens and tankers
It was not theft! It was a calculated release of stealth technology.China will take 30 years to prove out stealth technology also The reason Americans released limited stealth to China is that the military have a counter technology. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'll quote you on that "A jet is a jet just like a gun. A shitty gun can still kill people like how a higher quality gun would."
And I will have to counter If you if paired against F22 and F35 pilots the one difference is those pilots have seen several long term expanded campaigns and multiple engagements. It's sort of like coming in being the latest kid with a knife against hardened veterans with a smaller knife.
You are clearly a person who is working for China and try to disguise your opponents
Nice try!😂
As a Chinese you failed your country. Go back into the wall.
Totally agree with you
but from what I understood he's only talking about the machines like he said "on paper" @@brolydictcumberbatchmontou401
To be honest, no matter where the J20's technology comes from, the J20 looks really cool.
I didn't know Wish was a defense contractor.
it's the Samsnug j20. like the Samsnug TV. Any way why do they say we should fear it? If it has it no record for being battle tested in several actual extended campaigns. With pilots who have been in real air to air engagements. It is nothing to fear. You need Top Gun trained fighters as all the tech doesn't mean nothing. lol
@@brolydictcumberbatchmontou401 Samsung is korean bruh, I think you meant huawei my g
@@viochrys5412 i'm quite aware. It's a meme where some one show there tv on and it say samsnung when you turn it on a knock off chinese tv copying the south korean brand ve cause Neki shoes tuslas cars? thats what im saying the j20 is. Another chinese counterfit is. balles sunglasses that mkdolnads sandwich looks tasty.
@@viochrys5412 Dankpods channel covered that meme
@@viochrys5412 samsnugs j20 its the real deal it's not counterfeit.
Did I hear this man say that the heat signature of the j 20’s engines would be picked up on radar??? 💀💀💀
Yep.
Makes a strong case for fact-checking.
IR sensor technology is what he meant.
typical american propaganda channel be like
I think he meant IRST
I looked further into this.
You can actually detect the wake of an aircraft, but even something like the f22 would *still* have a larger RCS than its wake.
I think that he meant IRST or he knows something the rest of us shouldn't 😂
Though, if you follow the trail on the b21's range and efficiency..maybe they are trying to mitigate this effect through trying to achieve as close to 1.0 laminar flow as possible!
J-20 is basically doing what F-104 Starfighter and F-4 Phantom does in the Cold War. While the J-35 is equivalent to F-35A and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.
As a Chinese, I will tell you a secret, J 20 engines are imitated in China, high-speed Flight 3 times need to replace some parts. The F 22 is the strongest.
I love this guy’s voice!
It’s like a Simpson’s construct of a far Eastern Charles Bronson.
Superb.
💀
If you enjoy this guy's voice you might look up some videos with the old Formula 1 TV announcer Murray Walker. Their way of speaking are very similar
The upgrades to the f22 should help it be a bit more capable. Stealth drop tanks, irst pods etc.
we shouldn’t discount the j20 but it’s also set up around a different role and I’m betting we have systems capable of getting a weapons grade lock on such a relatively large radar target
1:03 a little bit of this, a little bit of that.......What could it be like if it is not "a little bit this and a little bit that"?
What happens when two stealth fighters approach each other but can’t see one another? You’re gonna want a gun then.
That’s why the f22 and f35 can still dogfight and has cannons
@@halo1011998 if im not mistaken, only the f35a has guns internally
You have something called High off Boresight IR missiles. Plus, stealth doesn't mean invisible, just reduced visibility. At 10 Km stealth isn't gonna do much to save you from an AESA radar and an Aim120, PL15 to the face. This is why there's a thing called the MAR or the no escape zone for missiles.
@@nomad_grjYeah, *only* 95% of all F-35's manufactured to date.
The close range high off bore-sight missile come in handy in this situation aswell... cant forget about those AIM-9Xs or the russian Archer R-74Ms.
U.S. is moving on from the F22 with the NGAD, which has significant technological upgrades. What we don't know is the quality build of the J-20. It's already a maintenance nightmare with the F-22, only because the quality of maintenance and technical support is important. Who knows what the Chinese are going through.
Well.... their icbms are using water as fuel sooo😂
NGAD will cost $ 300 million EACH. They'll build five then Congress will cancel them. Also, with Boeing in shambles and Northrop Grumman basically telling the USAF to fuck off after the unfair treatment they got in the ATF program, the only possible dev for the plane is Lockheed. No chance for competition, no chance to lower costs.
@@trailblazer632 That's a stupid mistranslation. All Chinese missiles use solid fuel. What the defector was saying was the Chinese idiom, "injecting water", which actually means inflating a budget. It means the Chinese MIC have been charging the government more than they should and the generals skim off the extra cash. It shows that their MIC is as corrupt as, if not even more than, any regular Western MIC.
which one has been battle tested? or seen in combat theater?
"... the heat signature of the afterburners would be visible on radars..."
Uh... no. No, it wouldn't. Radar doesn't pick up heat signatures.
Infrared sensors is what it would pop up on.
(Which, by the way, is more of a "your missiles can't get a reliable target lock on me" than "you don't even know I'm here" type of issue.)
The plane is as good as the pilot makes it we don't fear cuz we know the ins and outs we have great pilots
Ok Maverick, this is the real world where the plane makes a big difference.
This expression only came about because American pilots were notably at a disadvantage due to soviets fielding better planes in Korea.
The US navy & military learned a valuable lesson during the Vietnam war. At first US fighters did not have any guns for dog fighting and the US military soon went back to a gun or cannon for all fighter aircraft. The kill ratio went up greatly against enemy aircraft after that. I don't believe any western pilot or aviator would want to go into combat without his/her aircraft being armed with a gun today. Shalom
That was decades ago. Today its all about stealth and BVR tech.
@@CalvinHsuChen That's kind of what they said before Vietnam too. "we don't need guns, we'll engage with missiles beyond visual range." It turned out that a gun is super good to have if you ever find yourself in visual range. (or if the other guy keeps jamming your missiles)
@@gildedbear5355 also because politicians interfered and forced the pilots to get a visual before engaging which made them more useless.
Lots of variables. I am still considering what the game will be for Meteor and AMRAAM BVR and the role of gunships associated with stealth units.
aim 260
Calling the Chinese or Russian jets stealth is a massive misrepresentation of facts
suuure, yeah... fear it...
Why not?
It shouldn’t be feared, at least compared to what we (The U.S.) has. The J-20 is a very capable fighter, but it would be blown out of the sky before it can get a lock on an F-35 or F-22. The J-20 is an Su-57 made from plastic. Lmao.
@@ViperF-22 You mean the same F-22 that is retiring in 2030? Also, what's the top speed of F-35? Oh yes, Mach 1.6. GG America
america changed its mind we aren’t retiring the 22s
@@ViolentCabbage-ym7ko fighter jets aren't Bugattis, they aren't based around top speed
china "copies" something it wants but it lacks one thing that no one can copy, the experience of using it effectively in war
yeah because your nation always do war here and there... warmongers
F22? which war?
I think he meant, they have not figured out the correct military doctrine to go with stealth. They are relatively new to the game, and murica already has decades of expierience.
Y'all gotta stop spitting this bullshit like a broken record and wrap your head around the reality. Chinese have long surpassed the Russians and they are the real military threat. Their aircraft and missiles are much better than Russian designs they "copied" from.
@@naroly7880the 2023 balloon war
The F35 guns is a mistake, base on the little I know About it.
The whole aircraft is made for BVR, you get there, you shoot them down, and none has noticed you.
If one of them manages to make it a dog fight, you are in trouble.
One quick, 737-max style, solution is to just ditch the machine guns and add sensor on their place and more counter measures.
That is like one or two tons worth of stuff you can cram in there, without adding much weight or changing flight characteristics.
Yes, that means the F-35 would be out once the missiles are depleted, but in stealth.. once you fired your shots, you should have been long gone.
Your idea of the J20 is much higher than it’s actual capabilities 😊
Excellent video CCP approves +1000 social credit points
I think you're missing the point of the video. And I doubt the CCP would "approve" a video saying that China has a long history of technological theft.
1000 social credit points? lol
We won't even mention China for less than 1M social credit points 😁
@@NotWhatYouThink as a person who lives in china I can relate
Coping at its finest
@@subasthapa4839 can you stop meatriding china?
Radars do not detect infrared signature.
But irst does.
@@IndianArma IRST does indeed. At one point,the narrator mentioned that the radar detects the IR signature
@alex3261 aha, I missed that.
@@IndianArma At minute 3.55, while discussing the engines.
@@alex3261 got you 👍
F35 cannot be classified as a 5th generation fighter, as it lacks some of the crucial features like supercruise, supermaneuverabilit etc.
i mean, isn't it just up to whoever is naming it to put it into what ever generation they like? there aren't hard definitions. you could have literally an invisible UFO with tractor beams, but because it can't go over mach 0.99, maybe it's gen 2.
I think in a more pragmatic definition: the generation of aircraft is determined by when it was built, which if your building a new aircraft you'd usually have the new features.
awesome brother
While I agree the West should respect the J-20, fear is not an appropriate word choice. The J-20 was built to attack naval assets, as China felt it was the greatest threat from the West. The one area that should be considered is how the F-22 is being upgraded with IR tracking and stealthy external fuel tanks. Sandboxx News has a great video on it. Also, as for dogfighting being dead, think about it, with planes all having stealth, they will need to close into closer distances to detect and ultimately engage each other, thus providing more opportunities for dogfighting rather than less. The US learned its lesson about not having guns on its planes in Vietnam.
Amen Brother!!
You mentioned your own counterpoint. IR sensors are currently at the technological level where they allow for BVR engagements. Stealth aircraft do not negate a BVR engagement possibility, they simply shorten the distance of their own detection. Not having guns on fighters in Vietnam was not the cause of problem directly as many incorrectly say, it was the fact that 1960s US air combat doctrine was primarily focused on safety as opposed to correctly imitating threats. Many forget that the F-8 Crusader was used heavily in the conflict and was armed with guns, and after the Air Force added an autocannon to the F4, only a handful of gun kills were achieved.
Missile technology was severely immature for air-to-air missiles in the 1960s, but you cannot say the same today especially since BVR air combat became the norm in the 1980s in the Iran Iraq War, was further demonstrated in the Gulf War, was exclusively done over Serbia (all NATO air-to-air kills were BVR in this conflict) and now today over Ukraine, it is demonstrated every single day. Ukrainian pilots themselves list the MiG-31BM and Su-35S armed with R-77-1's and especially R-37M's as the single greatest threat to their own aircraft fleet. Not one gun kill in this whole war
Now also while you overall have educated points, I would also like to point out that the J-20 was not designed to attack naval surface assets - that's the H-6's job. The J-20 is a heavy long-range air superiority fighter, intended to destroy enablers. The J-20 + PL-15 pairing is designed with a role in mind:
1) destroy American and Japanese AWACS, tankers, ISR nodes, and logistical support
2) destroy the F-16V's and less advanced fighters of the Taiwanese. F-16V's with AESA radars and AIM-120C-8s as well as the Taiwanese Sky Sword are quite a threat to the Su-30MKK's of the Chinese, but they would be under incredible danger under BVR engagement against 5th gen assets.
They don't have much of an interest in going toe-to-toe with Japanese F-35s and American F-22's - they want to use their anti-access/aerial denial to make it extremely inconvenient for them to operate nearby in the first place. The SAM network but literally the part where they want to use the vast distances over the South China Sea to make it logistically impossible for advanced Japanese and American assets to operate there.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
And before anybody calls me a Chinese bot, I'm American as they get, in my page isn't some drop page, I actually post content. I simply care about having an objective analysis that is politically agnostic so we can actually get somewhere and deal with the threat accurately. Air supremacy is not an American birthright.
@@ArizonaAstraLLCXu Jinping knows less about J-20 compared to you
good analysis
@@ArizonaAstraLLCwell done American, you beat the other Chinese who made a horrible analysis.
That new Chinese AEW plane looks strangely familiar!
The f22 is getting a major upgrade to include more advanced avionics and targeting, including irst and others. This will be a major jump for the f22 and help it to bridge the gap to the 6th gen fighters that are coming. As well as providing a test platform for some of the tech planned for 6th gen fighters..
It an even match the j20 isn't a match for even the f35, let alone the f22. The problem is if there are enough j20s to overwhelm the systems of allied forces in the area...
I like how you just quietly tried to add the fact that the f35 would be in the picture as well as if that doesn't almost relegate the entire point of this video to the garbage can. Not to mention NGAD
"Mom can we have a stealth fighter?"
"We have stealth fighter at home"
The stealth fighter at home:
They might not have the quality but they definitely do have the ability to make large QUANTITY of aircraft
Quantity is a quality all its own.
Good thing the f22 is getting an upgrade that includes an IRST sensor
Not having a gun might not make that much of a difference.
Everything nowadays is largely engaging beyond the visible range and if that isn't working something completely different has to engage instead, such as ground-based AA systems.
Dogfighting is something of an old era where visible-range fighting was the main way of fighting.
"Made in China" is synonymous with "Quality".
uhhhhhh
😄
hate to break it to you but very little is made without the use of chinese parts, Capitalism goes brrr
@@minedgravy380 aaaaand that gave us the blissful future of "planned obsolescence" wehre things do no longer hold for 15 or 20 years but break down after the warranty expires or when the next generation is launched into the market...
@@Ugly_German_Truths Sorry to break it to you but lightbulb manufacturers started with planned obsolescence started in 1932. The advent of making things in China has nothing to do with it, so before you keep spouting things you don’t understand please consider that not everything reflects your worldview on other countries.
That this is one of the best youtube channels is, indeed, what I think
I also think
Big disadvantage of F22 is its shortage of fuel, including its shorter range missiles, it can go long distance and could be shot down before escaping.
Worrisome to itself and not its competitors.
Made in China so should not be an issue
F-35 isn't an issue either. It's a flying lemon
@@ViolentCabbage-ym7ko I think fighter jet are not much of an asset this day and age
Yes
@@ViolentCabbage-ym7ko and yet countries are scrambling to buy them. deluded commie.
are you a bot perchance?@@ViolentCabbage-ym7ko
"Guns aren't necessary in modern fighter aircraft because new long-range munitions technology makes close range dogfights unlikely."
-Tell that to early F-4 Phantom pilots during the Vietnam War.
The us learned that lesson the hard way. Its why even the f22 and f35 still have guns.
That era is over
@lmn6335 uh huh. Thats what the us politicians said then to. They were wrong. And so are you. Having a backup gun in a fighter is always necessary. Especially if multiple stealth fighters are in the air bypassing radar systems and getting progressively closer before engaging, or being stealthy enough to avoid long range missiles.
Except Washington specifically demanded that F4 pilots visually ID their targets at the time. This is the most important context people often forget. Also dogfighting was unnecessary if you just bomb the aircraft on the ground, which was what pilots during Vietnam demanded from higher up, and also what they did during desert storm. Also you mentioned "early F-4" which means later F-4s didn't have as much problem since they had renewed air combat tactics. It was a question of training, not equipment because much later F-4s didn't have guns.
@@trailblazer632 Haha, it's really over. You know what the air combat instructors say? -- Instructors; Why do stealth fighters engage in dog fights? Cadet - because we have more maneuverability - Instructor: No, because you're stupid
Why is this channel so good??
Doctrine and logistics might be key players in the match up
The no-gun strategy will come back to bite them. Unlike the video, I would argue a head-to-head fight between stealth aircraft is actually MORE likely to end in a dog fight. Between that and the upgrades the F22 is currently getting it is going to be an uphill battle for the J20. It will still largely come down to the pilot in the plane though.
nah it's not the 1980s any more , MAR of the modern missile(minnimum abort range) of sth like the aim 120d id 40-30 kilometers . that is the point where u cant evade the missile. so yeah it will not ba great proplem
@@salamaahmedbalash6548 except when talking about stealth aircraft where those missiles will have a much higher likelihood of missing, even when fired from within the MAR, or never locking on in the first place. Hopefully, things will never get to the point where we have to find who is correct on this one though. At this point, it is largely just speculation on behalf of both sides.
@@Finis08 i a agree 👍 👍 and yes hopefully not.
In BVR its the stealthier plane. In WVR though its the pilot. But both F-22 and F-35A besides being more stealthier also have an internal gun. So in both cases J-20 is likely to be eaten. Not to mention F-35s are the only aircraft that can literally see through their cockpit which will be a huge advantage in a dogfight.
@@johnsilver9338 wait what ? f35 in a dogfight is a sitting duck . f35 is horrible dogfighter . and a dogfight is impossiple i gurantee it is because of the mar
Although I agree the j-20 radar cross section isn’t great you have to consider the direction on how a radar system hits the j-20. The direction and angle plays a big role. It could be semi decent in a head on but I doubt it would be even considered stealth if tracked from an odd angle. This Also applies to the bottom belly of an f-35 for example. A radar cross section isnt static is what I’m trying to say. The Canards of the j-20 is also pretty bad in keeping its stealth characteristics.
What confuses me about the j-20 is the canards and the fact it has no gun to pair with them they are only useful in close up engagements as much as guns are. makes me think the design team had originally different intentions for the j-20 and politics made them change it.
Also worth comparing the claimed rcs of f35 vs f22. Huge difference there
no mention of the recent 16 billion dollar upgrade to the f22 adding technology that this video says it lacks
Who fled Afgnstn in the middle of the night? 😂
Mom, can I have an F-35?
We have F-35s at home
F-35s at home:
Not even close. China's version of the F35 is the J35.
@@elmohead yup......
But the J-20 doesn't have water submerging capabilities like f-35s though 😂
Made-in-Chiina cheap craap？
No, thank you, Mom said!
@@Mycatsbirthdayparty So, South Chiina Sea actually does Not belong to Chiina, right?!
And why can USS battle ships cross Taiiwan Strait every month but Chiina say nothing?
Is it true Chiina plans to invade Taiiwan but actually it can not even blockade the strait?
The problem with reverse engineering is that you do not learn what doesn’t work, and why.
Yep you are right, but it's better then no product in hand
With it's 20m² rcs from some angles, it loses to even the Felon. It does win from the front. I don't remember those numbers idk why all those posts were taken down.
The main advantage the J20 has is its massive numbers.
There are more than 200 of them, probably more than 250 by now. And while it does have that really crappy rcs from certain sides, it's still more stealthy than a conventional fighter most of the time at least
Even the mighty F-22 Raptor didn't use it's guns against a weather balloon that isn't flying very fast.. and uses not 1 but 2 AIM-9X .. amazing kills
Why wouldn't you use standoff munitions against a balloon whose altitude exceeds the operational capabilities of your aircraft? And not to mention that even if it did use it's guns or was in gun range, balloons don't go down as easily as you think. There have been times when balloons were shot multiple times and not downed. Missiles were the correct choice here.
Maybe read up on how it all actually went down before commenting. Lest you risk pulling a Dunning Kreuger.
The Canadians already tried guns and they didn’t work because a balloon is more robust so the guns wouldn’t kill it. Since the Canadians already fired enough shots to equal a missile the US didn’t want to be a laughing stock and just fired 2 missiles for a guaranteed kill.
Can't wait for new TopGun: chinese version
Actually we all know how obsolete Russian air force just became…
Daydream your hollywood fantasies then realize reality isn't the same just like losing and retreating against Vietnamese farmers 😂
Then can you show at 0.2m^2 or RCS, what radar band does the data apply to?
Sure it shouldn’t be ignored however I’d say it’s advantages are outweighed by it’s disadvantages.
Additionally in long range combat the missiles a plane carries are an extremely important aspect, one that tends to be hard to find data on for obvious reasons
"The heat signature would be visible on radars..."
Yeah checks out just like my Geiger counter registers dead batteries or a thermometer can spot people talking out of their ass on radio.
And don't come up with "ionization due to heat leads to radio reflections".
He probably meant IRST, and if some viewers don’t know what that is it’s easier to just say radar instead of explaining it
@@teaboy8362Half a sentence would have been enough to clear that up on a channel that wants to educate people. It was negligence and it reflects.
@@teaboy8362no it's clearly 0 knowledge and just yapping propaganda at every single opportunity. Balloon popper "unmatched air to air"
“Your blue chews device is weddy to pair” (yes i know it’s spelled “ready”)
you spelled ready wrong
you spelled ready wrong
you spelled Bluetooth wrong
Can Radars detect heat signatures now ?? From 4:00 minutes in??
Though the J-20 is designed as sort of a long-range interceptor, to intercept and interdict particularly AWACs, tankers, comms relay etc; the F-35 will have no problem detecting and tracking them from several hundred miles with its AN/AAQ-37 EODAS. Furthermore, the F-35 can transmit and share this info to other fighters, AWACs, Navy ships or even ground assets.
These technologies are not mysterious. China's j35 can also do it. These technologies are no longer new technologies. The United States should speed up innovation, such as unmanned combat aircraft or sixth-generation aircraft. Now, although the United States is still leading, China is catching up very quickly, and the United States should increase its speed.
I spit my coffee right after i read the title.
U should never underestimate anyone you do that you already lost
A lot of "military experts" here already did the exact opposite around here. Yest none of them been in actual combat lmao.
Compared with F20, the biggest disadvantage of F22 are not only its out-dated electric awareness and its fuel shortage, but also its shorter range missiles, it can not go longer distance and it could be shot down before escaping, although its radar is under upgrading, it still couldn’t solve the fuel shortage issue.
Why isn't anyone talking about the fact that task and purpose just covered this video
ah 'task and purpose' and 'not what you think' two American military propaganda channel is really reliable for military tech about others
@@F3CKTHEZIOS exactly
THEY COPIED EVERYTHING BUT THEY CANNOT COPY WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW !!! THE QUESTION IS WHO IS GIVING THEM THE INFORMATION???
hes in prison already
Yet they can use their on findings and knowledge.
your mom
War Thunder Players.
@@kountrygunz2032 only one of them is in prison
The way people severely underestimating China is too worrisome, especially after witnessing the west's half ass support to an ongoing war in Ukraine, the US sudden withdrawal Afghanistan, the EU heavily dependent on Russia's oil and gas. I began to be more skeptical towards western countries especially NATO members about their military capability and how they are going to fare with the new upcoming threats in the future conflicts. Not saying that the west will be completely destroyed but more like they will not be performing as well as they claimed.
Edit: Grammar
Agree, countries are incompetent on areas that we are not aware of, but what they were really good at was keeping it a secret at "any cost" and exaggerating their actual capabilities through all available media.
Just like what's happening to Boeing right now, something too big to fail and is willing to prolong or eliminate anyone just to keep their sloppiness a secret.
Very recently, the DOD upgraded the F-22 and a picture of these upgrades were captured, showing the Raptor with its own special radar reflecting fuel tanks under the wings and mostly unknown detection pods on the outer portion of the wings
You're right about the cannon on F35. But F35 has very short legs ànd it cannot out maneuver nor outrun J20
looks unfortunately similar to the f-22…
Oh man... Just looks at those comments. Those "expert" doesn't even know what they are even talking about.
Even the us official actually feared it and do not underestimate it.
And most of them didn't even watch the video till the end.
Dude you got my laughing all through this, thanks.