Stanley Crouch: What's the deal with 50 cent?
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2008
- View the entire video at: www.zocalopublicsquare.org/
Columnist, novelist, essayist, and critic Stanley Crouch visited Zócalo to discuss what he says is the "trouble with black popular culture." Here, the ever brilliant, irascible, and controversial Crouch talks about rap, women, and 50 Cent's supposed authenticity.
We live in a society whereby people praise people who constantly do evil. People with truth are rejected by the masses for being uncool. If Mr Stanley Crouch and 50 cent takes a stand in front of a large audience, Mr 50 cent might get the applaud of the large youth audience because the youth of today have been programmed to embrace things that might destroy their future but the fact remains that Mr Crouch has a valid point.
That beginning analogy was awful. Manure has plenty of real uses.
Was the analogy too sophisticated for you??
Bombs especially
@supahsekzy Apparently you missed the part at the beginning where he talked about the value of boxes and wheelbarrows of manure.
dont get it twisted 50cent a smart dude, he knows how to play the market. dude has made millions. yeah his not exactly shakespear lol but as a business man he is very good.
I don’t think you’re supposed to limit your art to whatever flatters the group you belong to. On the other hand he seems to be asking if we have something better to offer than 50 cent. Now, that’s a good question.
I cracked up when he talked about the Wall Street guys.
I agree, especially with Barack Obama comparison. The same can be said for Jay Z as well.
@salvadorpringle it's not about Stanley Crouch really. Love or hate the man, but what he says on this topic rings of truth. Its about the social health of the black community and it's bigger then him
Thank you for sending this to me. Very well-said.
@daggakid90
How so?
Yeah... I remember thinking how popular music and R&B/Soul were going to be negatively changed when they let in gang drug dealers into the music industry. Who were the gatekeepers? The same people Crouch is talking about, those that said that this new genre of gangstarap showed them the realities and plight of the inner city...
Instead of talking 50 Cent Down, talk Common or Talib up.
Again he speaks about an art form he knows nothing about
@kbh4950 So spot on. Couldn't heve been more enlightened on this topic than what you just said. I totally agree. Was starting to think i was alone in my thinking
"i think he's on to something..." lol
I see what you're saying on the one less drug dealer in the streets, but I see it as this: 50 cent's lyrics glorify, glamorize, and repudiates all the original tenets of hip hop (positivity, upliftment, black and brown empowerment in the face of adversity and socioeconomic hardships in urban communities). Now, I'm not saying that kids will listen to 50 and want to sell dope, I'm saying that the paradigm between hustling dope and success are too close to comprehend.
"You don't mean to tell me when you listen to 50 Cent that you think that the person who wrote that is equal to you?"
Ouch. Game, set and match to Mr. Crouch.
@blitzgreg1 He wrote 2 article attacking a cartoon Where My Dogs at? for showing Snoop Dogg with women wearing dog collars. He never mentions that Snoop does walk around with women on dog collars and the show called it degrading. He is quoted in every paper and the show is cancelled. Lisa Fager who lead the campaign to axe the show lists her favorite show on Facebook as The Boondocks. The 2nd episode of that show had a 14 year old black girl being urinated on and enjoying it. Total hypocrites!
I think Crouch is onto something.
Well said.
@salvadorpringle People are attacking his character without disputing what he is saying. listen to the truth of the message look around at what you see. maybe you are too close the problem to see it. Stanley has taken a brave stand against the opinions of the masses, and to me that takes conviction in ones ideas and thoughts. usually when everyone holds one position or way of thinking its time to question and examine it. Don,t live in a state of denial.
Good philosophy, but you're going to have to pressure congress to pass law restricting the market. I personally think you should restrict the types of good sold, but it's pretty hard to do.
Thank you
@salvadorpringle You still don't get my point. You are letting a man with flaws like the rest of us distract you from the pronouncement that he made. you could hate a musician and still love his music. Stanley's message was not a misguided foolish one, he was spot on. A man is entitled to be foolish sometimes, but when we are foolish collectively it means we are in dbig trouble. Really hope you understand what i am trying to say
@blitzgreg1 To everyone who defends Stanley Crouch please Google the article "Crouching Stanley, Hidden Gangsta" by Ta-Nehisi Coates of the Village Voice, then tell me what you think of him.
@pattiejazz That made a whole lot of no sense.
Thanks
It's sad but at the same time, you're not going to change anything b/c you're not attractive to a mass audience like they are. And at the end of the day, people watch and listen to things that they don't apply b/c it's called entertainment. I can be a married man that watches porn that degreades the woman but that's not who I am, it's entertainment. People need to grow up and accept responsibility for their own actions and stop acting stupid! And children/teens are smarter than you think!
Sinead O Connor Rolling Stone cover comparing her Irish struggle to what NWA was rappin' about. Or Conan O'Brien laughing it up with Snoop Thug, placing Tupax on the same level as Lennon, etc. etc. We're STILL suffering from the mass acceptance of new minstrelsy. Its changed our popular culture for the worst, but we suffer it all gladly.
gg
@Younggunzjr What if the parents did raise their child well and the rappers still have an negative influence on them then what ?
Great writer. Great mind!
lol @ 4:26
2:32 is right on. people on the outside think its reality
@salvadorpringle Ok, you are still on about Stanley Crouch. I would concede to you that he is a horrible human being. Let's say someone else said exactly the same thing he said in this particular forum. Would you agree or disagree with what was said. If my house was burning down and the neighbourhood sleeze was the one shouting the call, it would not mean that my house isnt burning because the individual doing the warning has 'no character'.
Well, Stanley got it half-right, which is fairly good for a racist, cracked-brain Prog. "Nostalgie De La Boue" is a well known - at least Mr. Crouch would be aware of it - cultural phenomenon that has held a fascination for the elite and effete across millenia, quite independent of the current black/white aspect of the hobby-horse Stanley never seems to tire of riding.
you're missing the point.. hip hop is not above scrutiny!!
how old are you? Pac's era revolved in a split in rap music culture: the dying positive rap and the emerging negative rap. He played the balance to maintain his stature.
@daggakid90
"this is what i hate about these older folks" - this is attitude, not opinion.
@salvadorpringle If you are not refuting his character, what are you doing then? you haven't once commented on wether what he said at this particular occasion has any validity. you are still talking about the man and not the message. Wether he has no charater or not is highly debatable and a matter of who is looking. Don't take anything he says personally, step back and examine it and think about it critically and say if is way off or not
He described his process for making money using the manure analogy. And this didn't age well. 50 Cent was on the Squawk Box with the Wall street guys.
But is he a Partner in the Firm???
You are what you say if you don't think your guys aren't a part of Wall street - you are wrong, just look and you will find them, in black and white - whatever colour you like.
The white guy quote: lie for the purposes of making a point.
ok so what do you suggest to do to make $300m in six years?
Look at the corporate entities that make these rappers rich, you think they care about the negative sub cultural and corrosive effects of the music that their formulaic idiotic artistes put out? it's about the bottom line for them and that is profit. its effects are long term and would only get worst. its almost as bad as selling drugs to the black communities. The kids of these execs are exposed to quality culture and education i am sure.
....has a point, though.
Those who don't get what Stanley Crouch is saying lacks the capacity to grasp his message. Black people need to recognise how self destructive the culture that they embrace is towards them. If the black community truly has the artistic metal that thay have always posessed, they could surely offer more enlightened material as a commercial artform. If all were well, lil Wayne would have been laughed at as nonesense art. Is this the same people that gave the world Stevie, Prince, Jimi Hendricks?
@qgreen100 intelligent but not wise. You can use intelligence to cut off your own head, but wisdom goes a little deeper and has to do with the responsibility attatched to intelligent descision making and thinking
@gkipling How much 50 cent made is irrelevant.
@salvadorpringle I have never been a follower of any man's rhetoric or doctrine, i believe in free thinking. Don't think i am here to give support to Crouch. I simply saw the validity of what he expressed. I would never agree with sucker punching any one; nice red herring though. havent heard you give an opinion on wether or not his comment rang of truth or not. Go in peace my friend, give more thought to this.
@salvadorpringle For me this wasn't a discussion about a man, namely Stanley Crouch, i am looking at the issue and what was said by the man. Wether he is a hypocrite or the anti-christ he was for me spot on this time. Consensus seems to be a big problem in the black community; most folks cant unify and agree on much
@raze1974 AMEN!
@90mv If the parents raised there chilldren in secure loving environments condusive to personal growth and advancement, the kids would probably not be listening to much of these bonehead rappers. They would be experimenting with much higher artforms, maybe for example contemporary jazz fusions or more positive forms of creativity. By nature a smarter person would be more attracted to higher art. this would eventually cause the standard mainstream artforms to elevate their levels.
I don't know how you're interpreting Crouch's words that way. "Shifting the blame onto the white man?" How are you arriving there? That's not at all what he was saying.
@daggakid90
You need to modify your attitude.
i mean so your sayn Just some one doesnt talk proper engish and talks about gay topics "still" degrading the blackman is right?
@blitzgreg1 I just don't see how a guy who has a long history of violence, stupidity and sucker punching gay guys gets to get on a soap box and preach about morality.
Amen
Duplicitous KQQN, His message is to put away the Public Enemy cd and pick up the trumpet and stick a needle in ur arm, idolize Dope fiend jazz musicians while ur critical of rappers
in 2006 Stanley Crouch wrote an article "MTV still clueless after all these years" where he attacked the MTV cartoon "Where my dogs at?" for showing Snoop Dogg with women with dog collars. Well it was Crouch who was clueless. Snoop did walk around with women with collars at an award show and the cartoon called his behavior degrading and that's more then Crouch wrote after the award show. His article helped cancel the show. No apology or retraction from the hack. He's still clueless!
why ceelo hatin.. haha
@daggakid90
Ok... Just never mind, keep your "opinion" the same for the rest of eternity. Why should anyone care, right?
Just as I taught no solution . Continue in the foot steps of Mr Crouch and I gurantee you will end up just like him INTELLIGENT AND BROKE!!!!!!!
Stanley is a bright man but the idea that a white audience likes to buy music that reinforces the notion of white superiority is frankly offensive.I'm a musician and tend to concentrate more on the groove anyway so lyrics tend to be a secondary consideration.Stanley has set ideas about white people that simply don't reflect reality.He talks a lot about black culture being stolen by the white man and points to the fact that most people know more about white artists "pretending to be n_ _ _ers" (Stan's words not mine) than the original black artists they took inspiration from (or "stole from") What he ignores is that America is a cultural melting pot and that white music influences MIXED with black music (and Latin sounds etc) make the music what it is.Yes many white jazz and blues players borrowed heavily from earlier originators,but so did BLACK artists who came along later.The reason the white artists are well known is because America is overwhelmingly WHITE so naturally they are going to buy music by people who look like them (even if half the time it was a lame imitation of the genuine black article) It should also be pointed out that folks like Duke Ellington and Charles Mingus (to name just a few)did their own borrowing from WHITE classical composers who preceded them and to spectacular effect.Back to Stanley on 50 cent isn't it interesting how he knows what some white business man on wall street who digs rap is REALLY thinking? Stanley's a mind reader. Yet while assuring us that 50 cent is reinforcing what whites "really think" of black artists who sing rap what is he doing if not looking down at 50 cent himself?
He speaks of an art form he knows nothing about clearly
Peace unto Holip ..during your blog talk show I believe you had a Malcolm speech from when he returned from Mecca. Unlike others in this one he reminded that his views on whites had not.changed because the same conditions leading to those views remained intact..please what speech was this?
He knows exactly
@daggakid90
Try modifying your attitude and come up with a new opinion perhaps?
@Romello4u This man is the voice of ignorance. He has sucker punched book critics, who he has called "troubled queens". He has also assaulted 5 or 6 other people that I know and crashed a Jazz Award show that he was not invited to, then he ran on stage and bored the hell out of the audience with a drum solo. He's a joke.
50 is intellegent
Thi looks like a poorly rendered game.
@blitzgreg1 My final comment, because I'm bored with it too. If Stanley Crouch were a white guy who liked sucker punching black guys, would you still support him? He is a black guy, who has a history of sucker punching gay guys. I don't think you would be supporting him.
This is an L
Remember young man, you don't get to be an old man being a fool...
mumbleora yes you do ....trump is 73
mumbleora Misleading, fallacious, uneducated wisdom is not a thing one should spread.
Complete nonsense
This is pure ignorance. Sorry. Crouch is so out of touch it's a joke. Not only is this speech from 2008, but 50 Cent has long since moved on to other ventures, such as his TV Show Power, which has been wildly successful. Regardless whether you enjoy 50 Cent's music or not, this is just woefully stupid. He mentions the contrast between 50 and Barack, who, ironically was a fan of 50's music. I detest ignorance. Jazz people need to reserve judgment if they don't have knowledge of other idioms.
Awful public speaker