How Would You Diagnose This One!?
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2020
- In this video I follow my gut on a repair and develop a test to prove my gut feeling. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. How would you diagnose a vehicle that you suspect was loosing compression under load? -Enjoy!
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How would I diagnose it? Easy...Drive to Avoca, I know a guy
i'm lucky my guy is a mile away 'south side auto' when you say your channel name I keep hearing 'Self Made auto" that works too.
@@johnditch6357 You aren't alone hearing 'Self Made auto'. Works fine for me!
@@ehsnils It's always been that way for SMA noobs myself included back when.
@@johnditch6357 LOL. I thought I was the only one. I also keep hearing "Self Made Auto", which is very positive in my world-
Brilliant sir.
She could move here to Kansas. It’s so flat here you can watch your dog run away for two days!😂
@Captain Caveman .... you okay?
Randy Billington ,Cracked up!!
Dirty Harry , Cracked up 2!
Here in the UK I first heard US native Rich Hall crack that one on QI a few years back. His documentaries on the US for BBC4 are well worth watching - you can find some on YT.
You're saying it's so flat you can see the back of your own head.
It's 2:15AM here in the UK, but I'm not going to bed until I've consumed some of the most entertaining, wholesome and educational automotive content on the internet! 😁
Ditto that!
How do you keep track what with all the crazy words you have for car parts little bonnet and saloon and dunglywobbler and megacycles and crisps and whatnot?
@@jamespfitz Having watched Sesame Street as a kid back in the day, you just get used to picking up all the Americanisms.
Watching this at 1am in the UK too, a little bedtime learning.
My method: Remove the hood. Remove valve cover on suspected side. Strap a small child in the engine bay, and after driving hard uphill at 45MPH, ask the kid which valve is sticking.
finally someone's thinking about them child!
I did that quite often, until my two sons got too big to fit. I tried borrowing some of the neighborhood children but their parents did not understand the educational opportunities being offered to their children so, alas, I had to start taking my car to a mechanic. It was just as well the hood brackets were getting so worn the threads were just short of failing.
Thats the sort of thing my Dad would have done!
@@roygunter3244 r
Brilliant
Send it to the dealer, they will throw on some pads and rotors and call it good.
They'll give you a engine replacement price and a referral to the sales department.
a new engine might fix it or is it an ecm or a fault in the radio, you'll never know for sure.
There’s your problem lady!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The old "could not duplicate customer complaint"..lol
I'd believe your gut over most other people's facts....
Most notable Eric O. expression this episode...." Give it a bunch of shoe...."😎
How many cylinders does a guy really need? I mean it's only missing one...
Videos like this are why people should buy v8’s. These things would be barely a concern.
@@99thpeanut59 the 5.3 and 5.7 v8 was prone to this exact same problem.
efilnikufecin2004 tell me where I said the 5.7 and 5.3 didn’t have the same issue and TSB discussing valves sticking open?
It’s almost like you didn’t read the original comment I replied to.
It`s still there. It just isn't doing much.
Yeah a guy I know named Ted Snow drove his chevy with a block of wood wedged in no.4 cyl to hold the piston at top for over a year.
I was a mechanic but in a different fieeld, my background is with industrial hydraulics.. I specialized inhigh pressure closedloop systems. I have met and know plenty darn good mechanics over the years. Knowing what I know, I definatly would have to place Mr. O in the extreme exceptionally good class of mechanics, very rare...
I agree with you 100%, even if you did misspell definitely =]
Believe me it's not rare. There are many amazing techs out there.
@@Discretesignals Hard part is finding them.
Hydraulics aren't much different from internal combustion engines. There's a leak! Gotta find it. Otherwise MeMaw ain't happy!
Mr. O is one of the very few mechanics that I watch regularly on CZcams.. Mr. and Mrs. O. are genuinely decent business owners that actually care about people and want to do a good job rather than just wanting to make a quick buck..
There is no way I could have found that intermittent loss of compression. Great job SMA. Thumbs up.
Well seeing I have no test equipment such as scopes or pressure transducers, etc.... and would have to put major time in learning how to use them, i'd be at the dealers mercy.
@@dwoodog stay away from the stealerships and find a shop like Eric's. Most places have them, you just have to dig them out.
Honestly, I think your diagnosis skills could do so much more. Such a joy to watch. you can really see a difference when you have an interesting issue. Not that brake jobs are boring. But you certainly come alive with these issues.
I remember running into these when I used to work for the state fleet and they had a ton of cargo vans and 15 passenger vans with 5.7s. Of course, work vans are always overloaded, 15 people equates to a lot of weight and the 5.7 had a hard time moving the 3/4 and 1ton vans when they were empty. There was a hill I'd drive them up that's probably about 6% in a 55mph zone, maybe a mile long. I'd start at the bottom at around 40 and just put it to the plastic as you say. The ones that broke often didn't make it half way up the hill before they lost a cyl or 2. I never tested them with a relative compression test since I was a really young tech at that point, but the GM TSB and the fact that it would only do that after several sustained seconds of high rpm made me confident enough to call it a sticking valve, and I was never wrong (on that particular problem anyway). I think if I were to test one again, for my own curiosity, I'd probably do just the same as you, but also add on a pressure transducer for the intake because you would be able to see if it was an intake or exhaust valve hanging open.
(for those wondering why anyone is talking about the 5.7 V8 when this video was a Blazer with a 4.3, the GM 4.3V6 is just a 5.7V8 with 2 cylinders missing. The rest of the engine is almost the same)
I would fix the windshield and stay off the gas pedal. My best to the mrs
i was wondering if the crack would fail inspection. i would at least put scotch tape over the crack inside to cut down on the glint from the sun on the crack
Chop the Blazer to remove the crack and save the radiator cap for the replacement vehicle.
@@erniew5805 That crack would definitely fail an inspection in NY
That's what I was thinking...
@@ericbuist8218 And in VA.
Don’t ask me, I’m only here for Mrs “O”s cooking😁.
Oh my gosh, remember her burgers from the other day?
@@Lowkey_ID Not gonna lie, I get pretty jealous when I see the delicious things Mrs O cooks Eric for his lunch! At lunch time I'm usually making the quickest and easiest thing possible like ramen, beans on toast, cheese toast or if I'm feeling really adventurous, a bacon sandwich. 😂
@@unicorn7337 put some lettuce and tomato on it. Live a little...
I’m only here for Mrs. O! Cooking or starving, I have a school boy crush. Wonder if I could get her to be my wife’s role model? How would you guys suggest I start the conversation where I tell my wife that I want her to be more like the lady on CZcams? :D
@@athhud lol good luck!
You can tell from the sound it makes when cranking over in this case, it's quite a unique sound.
Good thing they brought it to you. Otherwise $2;000 of parts and no fix.
You are correct Mr O. GM had a tsb for this years ago V6 and V8 , valves hanging up looses compression going up hills. I duplicated many times watch you vacuum gauge it will go crazy on long hills. Most customers opted to just get another vehicle. You are the man.
Is this due to lifters getting stuck? Or valve springs? Could it occur at idle if conditions were bad enough or just under heavy load? Having an issue trying to fix a 05 silverado. Haha sorry
Gabriel Hermosillo valves stick in the guides. 05 Silverado is an LS style engine this truck was an old style small block V8. V6.
@@briandeeney9329 ah ok I see alright well good to know. Thanks for the response, my search continues
@@gabrielhermosillo4866 If your 05 Silverado has a V6 it would be the same 4.3L V6 as the Blazer in the video. I can't recall if the TSB applied to the 4.3 V6 up to the 2005 model year.
@@briandeeney9329 what makes the valves stick in the guides after so many miles? That is very unusual. Did they use an unusual guide material?
Never thought I'd say this about your testing Eric. That was a quick and efficient test!! You're a careful tester and that usually takes some time. That's a well edumacated gut you got! 8-))
You're always like " I don't know what I'm talking about I'm just some self taught SHMOE but clearly you are an absolute and total master of automotive jujitsu " submission hold and you're OUT "
"The Peoples Republic of NY", as an Upstate New Yorker myself thats an accurate statement
Greetings from the Islamic kingdom of britain
I'd be very interested in seeing what the valves in #3 look like.
You pretty much nailed down the diagnostic procedures for that type of misfire. The lab scope is a great diag tool, especially if you know what your doing. Great job Mr. O.
My answer is simple and sweet. Fist of all I take it to Eric and say drive it. After he comes back and says no compression in #3 on a load. Then I tell him FIX IT. Simple and sweet. Awesome diagnose there Sir Eric. God Bless.
pore a can of BG44K in the fuel tank. turning it over with the starter you can HEAR the missing compression. then what cylinder is it. with your scope you can tell. first time I heard this was a vw bug and everyone knew it was the number 3 exhaust valve burned. yes you are one of the best mechanics ever.
With my limited tool set, I would diagnose this with a misfire counter, recording the process while driving. Wish I knew about the sea foam solution in 2017. I would have used it instead of changing the heads in my Jeep Grand Cherokee. With what I know now, I am confident that may have worked and saved me a weekend and $2,500.
First, I'd swear at it a little - that usually always helps my diagnostic process along nicely. 😁 Since I don't have a scope, just the relative compression test before and after in this case would've made me pretty confident it was a valve sticking issue. I'd probably throw a vacuum gauge on there too and watch for the wagging needle, just to be 120% sure.
I went from being the busiest I've ever been in my life, to just about nothin' on the automotive side. Now I'm swamped with generators, pressure washers, chainsaws and weedwhackers, and an ol' Onan-powered J/D 318 I need to yank the engine on and replace every single gasket and seal on. She likes to puke. What a sweet tractor! Built when manufactures gave a crap about quality. Funny how business is like waves on the ocean - up, down, up, down, lol. Hope yer stayin' cool out that way, brother. We just got nailed by some T-storms. Dropped the temp like a rock!
Don"t forget a couple dag nab it 's and a "motherlover"
@@VWWRENCHIE - Indeed ... and at FULL volume, too. 😁
Had the same issue last year on a customer's 05 astro van, cylinder number 4 was the issue. I installed a vacuum gauge on it and flew up a hill until the vacuum gauge started going crazy. Sold him a valve job. Ran beautifully afterwards! 👍
Without a doubt, Mr. O is the best real mechanic on youtube.
This is why I love your channel sir. You came up with this test and it worked perfectly. What amazed me was you can hear it loosing compression when you tried to restart it. Most mechanics wouldn't have done that. Well done 👍
Before there were "smart" engines, I once had a motor that would run good on level ground on the freeway but as soon as I hit a hill, it would slow down to barely 40 mph then run well again when I reached level ground. One clue was a small puddle of oil after parking it.
It turned out that during the rebuild, the engine shop installed the wrong size bearings on the crankshaft.
Oops!
oops
That'll do it.. lol. Surprised it ran at all lol
They didn't plastigauge the bearings for clearance? Wow...
@D theman on the hills, the load makes the bearings and crank heat up and the little bit of clearance that there is disappears. I'm sure it must have burnt the crank a bit.
One of the best example of a tech that “ verify customer complaint “ . Most of the people just through parts . Most of the garages will say “it need the tune up” . Thanks 🙏🏻
Throw*
I'd try that BG 44K fuel system cleaner before taking it apart. My mechanic friend says to, add it to the the fuel when the level is low. Then fill tank with premium gas and run that tank down. I use it in my 2010 CRV annually and it restores the throttle response and improves the mpg's by a few. I do perform cleaning the throttle body once a year too, but this stuff works for me.
I would suggest to the customer that she moves to a flat state like Florida.
That or tell her to always pick a downhill route.
Only one Choice left go around in circles they wrote a song about it
Are you out of your mind. We need to put a limit on how many New Yorker's come into our state. Just kidding. But not really
“Back in my day, we could only take flat or downhill roads”
Kansas
I definitely enjoy these vids were you analyze complex issues.
I watch because I enjoy listening to the door bell and phone.
Mechanics are cool beans!!!!
I wouldn't diagnose this well. This is happening currently to my GM 5.7. I parts cannoned a new coil at it because, well it was the original coil (200,000+ miles) so I figured it wouldn't hurt. It actually made a difference. Missfires aren't bad enough to set the money light now. I have recently came to the conclusion that it is a sticking valve but wasn't sure how I was going to verify that without removing the head. This was good timing for this video. I appreciate all you do Eric.
That was one good diag, Eric!!! Nice work!!
Love the positive South Main Auto attitude Eric. 👍🇺🇸
Wow, i love watching this channel, learn something new every time! great motivation to get on it.
Need more mechanics like you , great video like all of yours we learn a lot from them
Learned something new today, thank you Mr O!!
Same exact issue with a 2007 Silverado 4.3. Found it by connecting a vacuum gauge I could see while test driving. Fixed with top engine (valve) carbon cleaning.
This is why I like living next door to your shop. You can do it--that's why I'd rather pay you! Good video--love Jacob's Ladder!
Excellent use of your test equipment.
Damn few mechanics would have figured this out. Always impressed with Eric O.
almost every mechanic would have figured it out, they have already been there done this like Mr O. now the part swappers would be on the 99.9% failure side.
Richard Schmidtendorff I think 99% of today’s mechanics are just part swappers. Very few can work a theory to a conclusion anymore. It’s a lost art.
People's Republic of New York.....you got that right!
@Robert Slackware It will cause it to fail the annual state inspection.
@@turbo8454 ANNUAL inspection???? BRUH
Great Diag'. I'm an old Canadian tech from the mid 70's. Before the wonderful electronic computerized methods now available, we had to go old school Diag. Back then it was new school Diag now it's old school, OK your dad is one of us, he can explain it.
Anyway, we used a trusty vacuum gauge. Any valve misbehaviour would show up immediately.
Boy I miss the old days and ways..
I just love your diagnostic approach. Grate work Eric !
how do you keep scotty from talking? You tie his arms behind his back!
Sounds like him flailing his arms around drives you nuts too. I'm surprised he doesn't have worn out shoulders like most mechanics his age.
I laughed way too hard at this
Then all you'll hear is grunts.
He's the original wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man.
I swear Scotty is drunk is most of his videos.
I remember watching one of ScannerDanner's videos where he shows an injector overheating which caused it to fail while hot (OL resistance while hot). Because it was winter in PA he used some snow to cool down the injector to prove the injector was overheating and damaged. Relative compression test seems like the easiest method if it has to be done within 10 seconds. Only other thing I can think of that might be faster than a relative compression test under those conditions would be a factory procedure for cylinder balance test (if you don't have access to the tools to do a relative compression test).
DJ I SAW THAT VIDEO AND REMEMBER THAT WHEN I TEST INJECTORS. i ALSO LEARN A LOT FROM ERIC OWHICH IS WHY I SUBSCRIBED , GREETINGS FROM OHIO
Eric - great video - I never the valves could hang open like that for just a short bit of time and then go back to "normal" - thanks for sharing!!
Your insight on this problem was terrific!
you're a clever bugger! good content mate!
I'd call Kilmer of course
Obviously the first step in any repair.....
He'd "SHOUT IT OUT"!
Damn, that's a cool business card lol.
HA! That guy is a wealth of knowledge ... 😃
He would be the last person I would call, but I digress...I would not call Mr. Yeller.
Sweet a real mechanic giving honest advice!!!!!
Humor and learning, great combo, not many good mechanics out there, this guy does great work.
You already know my answers.... best being the scope (to have recorded proof) with an intake pulse sensor and crankcase. (I have 2 i can use) See how it's losing it. Using long test leads, you can drive anywhere for as long as you need.
I really like your way too. Quick and easy.
So, intake pressure sensor to detect possible intake valve hang-up, but what does the crankcase (I assume pressure sensor?) do for you?
Interview with the client and listen to how the engine behaves in different types of work, after receiving the car, carry out the accurate road test. Normally I do it with this test, and I will have the diagnosis and work to repair the damage. For you with the experience immediately what I thought was asserted in the failure, Congratulations for what you know and Thanks for this video
great diagnosis and really great gut feeling ruling out spark and fuel.........thanks for all you do.
Brilliant mr o,great thought,keep safe.thanks for video.
Without any fancy schmancy stuff to work with - I’d “guessed” a weak fuel pump not getting enough fuel under load
I had that happen on my 97 chev truck.. it wouldn't up shift if I revved more than 2500, below 2500 ran good.. one day I says to myself, when's the last time I changed the fuel filter? New filter, problem solved..never had any codes
GYPSY400 I used that very same thought process 45 years ago when faltering going up a steep hill under load but all was fine under load on flat ground. Yup, it was a clogged fuel filter. 👍
Marvel's magical mystery oil is coming to take you away
Change the oil, toss in a quart of Marvel problem solved.
dad kept gallons of it on hand didn't waste it on the 48 Dodge though just fed it drain oil as required it burnt oil when he got it and still did when he traded it in after quite a few years.
Second that. Marvel and Sea Foam. Worked for me on a small engine
Haha
Coming to take you away... take you away...
Pretty amazing approach!
I'm in awe of your idea.
Wow. I honestly wouldn’t have guess that. Thanks for teaching me something new.
Since my Pico is still 2-3 weeks out, I would probably listen to the cranking sound when it does it and know it was compression related.
in "the good ole days" some cars might stall on sharp turns, ~~ because choke plate not held open
This guy is GOOOOD! Best mechanic I've ever run across. Keep up the good work Eric O.
Thanks Eric for the tip here I have a 4.3l in my Jimmy and will keep this in mind if and when it acts up as this did.
Have a great weekend !
BG44K (comercial) on an IV drip into the intake, can of their fuel treatment in the tank with a fill up of 94 non ethanol, and Slave Lake that bastard for the whole tank..
ETA: Would also take a look at the PCV valve if its carboned up enough to lock up a valve.. How much oil is it burning a week? Is it a hit the gas station, check the gas fill the oil type deal?
Seafoam worked on my 5.3 with a collapsed lifter . Good stuff
I will have to check out that seafoam treatment, sure would be nice if it worked on my 5.3 stuck lifter! thank you Knightnrmer
Good thinking Eric O! That was crafty I like it. Nice diag
I saw you on the Spanish channel the other day you were awesome thank you Eric you are the man
Marvel Mystery Oil, add some to the engine oil and some to the fuel tank, truly unbelievable stuff!
I bought some marvel mystery oil for the Brazilian market it's a little thicker than the American stuff found it at some resale shop and it works super great....
I've had the Marvel's work on sticky valves on 4.3/5.0/5.7 engines. That made me a believer!
@Robert Slackware I saved two of my small antique MMO squirt cans that you can no longer find, I simply refill them when they get empty from the gallon jugs I keep on hand.
That's a no brainer! It's a Dorman valve guide!
What would you have done Mario?
South Main Auto Repair LLC i can't top that bud, great job!
South Main Auto Repair LLC i don't know that i would want to put my transducer through all that heat at heavy load 😆 you used logic and evidence. I mean it when i say i can't top it because no one can top data and experience-based, logically sound deduction
Could be worn lobe on cam? What's your take on that?
Julius Apis Bull a worn cam lobe would be a permanent compression loss(unless it was a worn exhaust lobe, in which case that wouldn't affect peak compression at tdc-c), not only under heavy load. An intermittent collapsing lifter might also do that, but a hung open valve sounds more likely.
Especially since it was dead compression, not even a little. A stuck closed intake valve from a collapsing lifter still would have some compression at that load, also true for a stuck closed exhaust valve. A hung open valve makes more sense.
Nice deduction, having your scope proved to be useful again, knowing how to use it properly is also helpful! Thanks for sharing!
Another win forvthe scope...never seen that before..thanks for sharing
My approach? I'd take it to SMA and tell Eric, "It's broke." :)
good one funny
I had a few of these with this problem and the crank sensor hitting the crank. There is a Tsb for carbon build up on the guides, you hone them with a 9mm hone. I think you can even do it in the vehicle if you drop the valve into the cylinder. I never tried it myself. Last one I did I had to pound the valves out with a mini sledge hammer.
You mean at close to tdc and just roll it over and push the valve back up ?
I've dropped them in the cylinder. Not that hard to do . I used a 6.75mm bronze punch and 32oz ball peen to knock them down.
A 9mm hone?? You're going to shoot the engine?? :)
@@markh.6687 Enlarge the bores...
@@liebherr11602 I know; just funnin' cause the diameter is the same.
It's a bit expensive, but Kistler makes piezoelectric pressure sensing spark plugs that perform like a normal plug but with a pressure transducers built in. With this transducer you can see the cylinder combustion pressure waveform and also, because of its shape, you can see the valve events.
A fine diagnoses!
Thanks Mike :)
BG induction cleaning. If it is that dirty do it twice. I do my cars every 50 K.
That was Brilliant, Eric... simply brilliant! It didn't hurt that you were aware of those particular power plants having possible valve sticking issues, but even so, your hypothesis/test methodology was absolutely top-notch!
im very young and still inexperienced so I would not have known to do that but WHAT AN AMAZING VIDEO. just tied a lot of things together for me and will definitely be very helpful knowledge in general and seeing as how i can use the scope to compare things like this is something i would have taken much longer to realize without this video.
When your at those really high rpms like that I’m wondering if the oil pressure might be causing a lifer to hold the valve open or could just be a bad lifter holding a valve open. I’d be changing the lifters on that cylinder as well. You might want to check oil pressure when it does it too.
You don’t really need the fancy pico scope to know if you’ve got low compression. Just use your ears. You can hear the starter has an easy spot while it is cranking. Anytime you have low compression you can almost always hear it in the starter when cranking.
Also your bodies can feel vibrations just as good as that pico scope. You just need the experience to know what different vibrations feel like to know what might be wrong. Yes the pico scope can help at time with some of the more tricky vibrations but my body can feel the difference between a tire vibration, u-joint vibration, or engine misfire vibration
I was going to say lifter too when the relative compression came back low on #3 as per the hypothesis. It'd be very unusual for a valve to stick open due to guide stiction at high rpm/high load when the cylinder pressure is at its highest and most vigorous changes.
I wouldn't. I'd bring it to you. Silly. 😜
Good job Eric! You are a very knowledgeable guy.
I think you did a great job at methodically diagnosing the issue and I agree with you on your conclusion.
I'd sure try Seafoam first before I'd pull the head.
I see the classic defroster window crack.
That's interesting. I never heard of a valve floating under conditions like this. I woulda guessed a weak valve spring. I learned something new! Thanks, Eric.
That was a amazing diagnostic procedure! Never seen it before!
I got a question. How well does fluid film hold up for undercoating? thinking of using it. thank you.
Awesome. Put it on in the fall before the first snow/salt. It requires periodic reapplication but if you keep up with it it works better than a permanent bond under coating in my opinion. Applied annually it will help a lot. Great on hinges on tail gates and snow blower axels lawn mowers, shit like that.
Nice lesson, I wish I lived in your area. How do you find someone with your skills and integrity?
should be easy this is very basic stuff hoinestly
@@SouthMainAuto Ya, ok.....I bet some would load up the parts cannon, and have at it, tho. Been there, done that.
Find someone who doesn't talk like they could fix the Space Shuttle or constantly blabbers endlessly about how (so and so) is so "bad". A REAL expert mechanic is humble in his ways. Don't mistake confidence for ego. That's why I enjoy these videos. Well, than and how Mrs. O keeps things real. 😁
We are working on a "Clone Eric O." program.😃
@@VWWRENCHIE That's a great idea, but I don't have 30 years 😂🤣
A admire your troubleshooting skill!
This was a good one to share with everyone. Don't ever feel underappreciated by the subordinate techs in the shop. I always looked up to my senior techs for their wealth of knowledge and experience.
"There's your problem Lady!" You got a cracked windshield. It's a wind resistance thing.
Funny!
My diagnosis is “Eric wearing a t-shirt without a pocket”...🤔😂😊
D theman - actually I think they might be a sponsor. 😬🤣
I want one of those shirts. Can't find it on the web for sale. Anyone know how to get one?
Definitely will put this in the memory bank. Great test method. 👍🏻
You are a scientist of the firs order and I salute you.
"People's republic of New York". That's so accurate lol.