Psychiatrist Reacts To Career And Burnout TikTok
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Join us for today's video where Dr. K reacts to Career and Burnout TikTok content. In today's world, workers encounter numerous challenges and turn to platforms like TikTok to express and seek validation for their feelings and experiences.
Learn more from Dr. K in his Guide to Mental Health: bit.ly/45NirwY
Not sure which module to start on? Take our quiz: bit.ly/47dGzKj
In this video, Dr. K offers his expert insights while reacting to the content shared by workers regarding career-related struggles and burnout on TikTok. The platform has become a space where individuals candidly share their work-related challenges, seeking understanding and validation from a community facing similar issues.
The workplace and job market right now is really difficult. If you need help with career issues like burnout, bad bosses, and imposter syndrome - consider getting an HG Career coach to help you navigate the world of work. Learn more: www.healthygamer.gg/coaching/...
Find us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and more here: wlo.link/@healthygamer
▼ Timestamps ▼
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00:00 - Intro
00:07 - Tiktok #1
06:14 - Tiktok #2
11:30 - Tiktok #3
14:23 - Tiktok #4
15:19 - Tiktok #5
16:41 - Tiktok #6
24:59 - Questions/Summary
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All guests of Healthy Gamer are informed of the public, non-medical nature of the content and have expressly agreed to share their story.
#healthygamergg #career #tiktok
The problem I see is there is the lack of transparency on the management side. The employees never know if they are safe to ask about raises/promotions. Once you ask, the employeer will start nit picking at everything you do to justify not giving what you want.
It sounds like you are talking from experience, but I think this is a phenomenon that not only you face! There is an underlying conflict of interest between the company owner and an employee that makes this about something more than just an interpersonal psychological phenomenon. The more work they can get you to do for the same amount of pay the greater the profits the company can make. This is why unions are so important! It is much easier to ask for a raise when all the workers go to the bargaining table together than to ask alone.
That's a toxic employer then, and I really do want to believe not all employers are like that.
Well said! You nailed it.
The old union term for "quiet quitting" was "working to rule". I think that does a much better job of conveying what people are doing - performing the tasks listed in their employment contract and no more.
I've actually done this in the past when my "extra work" wasn't being compensated with cash. But I wasn't exactly quiet after the second time post yearly review I asked for an exact listing of my job responsibilities I started to get this messed up corp bs thing of minimum raise from the review and then a soft promotion (ie no real change to job just new title) with a more significant raise. It was annoying and stupid.
Daniel, that is a solid point. Thanks for highlighting that important term and history.
To me, who had suffered from burnout before, it's starting to get almost scary. My colleagues, who are around 20 years younger than I, work in a way that I don't understand. They know their rights, they know they're already tired despite being so young, they're frustrated... but they don't make use of their rights. They never saying "no" to any task, work overtime almost every day, work when they're on leave, when they're sick etc. When I started working there in July I told my boss right from the start that I have a chronic health condition. He said ok, he would make sure I would have as little stress as possible and should work at home whenever I felt like doing so.
I'm in pain since a few days - enough that I can't wear normal clothes let alone sit up straight. Doctor assumes it might be a form of appendicitis. I called in sick and because he asked, I told my boss what was wrong. And of course he kept calling several times (four times today), asking for this asking me to do that, because I can work from home.
I feel like I'm in the wrong movie... I had never experienced something like this. Up until now sick was sick, holiday was holiday. But it feels more and more like all of that is just wasted opportunity to get work done. For 15€/hour. Smh.
I feel you! It seems like more and more the expectations to overwork are increasing, the labor rights gained in the union struggles of the 1920’s-40s like the 40hr week and sick leave are being eroded, and employees are internalizing the need to meet these expectations to keep their job or have any chance at the promotion that would give them a “middle-class” lifestyle. It is almost like the profit motive and tendency of the rate of profit to fall forces even more well-meaning companies to further exploit their workers.
@@samv7212 we definitely need another labour struggle. It's challenging, cos so many jobs now take advantage of eroded regulations and that makes it hard to organize.
Although I'm still young, I realized that my bosses and the bosses of another department that we work with were giving me too much work and too much responsibility past my job title and pay. I've had several long conversations with them to try to clarify the situation and they straight up told me and my entire department we are never allowed to say No to the other department because they are more important.
It's demoralizing and disrespectful. Ultimately this breakdown of honest communication hurts the quality of work for everyone and increases burnout
My experience with burnout is vastly different from what Dr. K talked through with #6. I am not a people pleaser, but I am a dedicated, hard worker. I did my job very well so they wanted to give me all the new business because they knew I would deliver a good product for the customer. I repeatedly told my boss and my manager that I didn't have bandwidth for more projects, yet they piled them on anyway. Multiple times I asked for additional team members after months of not hiring anyone new. I alone was doing the work of a former team of 3. My quality of work started slipping and they still wouldn't take anything off my plate. It got to a point where I was so burnt out that I told them I needed to start working part time to be able to keep up with the rest of my life.
No after no after no after no. I quit with no back up plan. Sometimes companies really are just indifferent to their employees' well being.
Sounds like my wife's time at the same company I work at. It was C-L-E-A-R she was a TOP performer, so her 'reward' was infinite work and no support. Ofc she couldn't keep that up, but she sure tried to hold up the world like Atlas. It was devastating to have to whiteness this as her partner. Things just fell away from her life one after another, but work performance was never an option for her due to her harsh mother making her fear observed failure by authority figures (bosses)of absolutely any kind.
After literally YEARS of this, she FINALLY got a new manager who actually just listened to her basic needs and she's a manager of a small team of assistant managers now, who then manage a hundred or so employees, instead of her needing to do it all AS WELL as manage some incompetent people she specifically asked NOT to help her. Her personality is slowly returning and it's wonderful. Unfortunately, she has just had to have surgery from a G.I. issue that is, by all accounts, exacerbated severely by stress.
There isn't enough understanding percolated into (US at least) society about how 'working hard' can be the most toxic decision anyone can make not only for themselves but for their loved ones and community. It's not always that way, but more and more, with the way we've allowed the world to be configured, it's the case. And there is VERY little recourse for those that find themselves trapped in it, b/c it's 'bad' to be 'lazy' AKA respect yourself.
To me, health to work tradeoff is absolutely NEVER worth it. People's actual, real, non-monetized life is the utmost importance for the individual and the health of others. But so many are taught the exact opposite by our society. It literally makes me weep for humanity, at times, that we've been so thoroughly colonized by greed that it's gone down to destroy even the 'good' people who serve the greedy out of pure motivations, desire to help and uplift. Pure exploitation, the most evil of behaviors, imo.
sounds like they didn't hear your "no". maybe it needed to be said in a different way for them to actually believe it, or maybe they kept pushing because they could.
@@vazzaroth Well said. I wish everyone read what you say here.
I’m sorry that happened to you! There are a million stories like yours and honestly I don’t think Dr K’s take here reflects reality.
I also thought it was interesting when Dr. K said 24:31 “your boss may be a people pleaser too, they might have gotten their position because they were so good a pleasing people.” I immediately thought who are they pleasing? They got their position by pleasing their boss, who is, or in turn has to please, the owner of the company. Their job as a manager continues to be contingent on pleasing ownership, not the people who work under them, and the best way to do that is to maximize the companies profit by getting the most work for the lest amount of pay from their employees. Even if the people pleasing personality of your manager genuinely makes them want to help you, they are faced with a conflict of interest between helping you or helping themselves/their higher-ups. This makes it rare that a boss will offer you the kind of help that cost the company, but you can look forward to all kinds of meditation apps.
Right off the bat, I can confirm the issue of expecting people to go above and beyond by default.
After over a year at my first job out of college, I was falling behind and producing slopier work due to physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion (realized later I was burned out).
I got written up and told, by the VP of my department, that he expects "110% from everyone" because "it is needed to succeed here."
To say that this is BS is an under statement.
Dr k is speaking from middle class to upper class job perspective. At shitty jobs you don't get an option to take on more responsibility, you're already doing your best and it's not enough.If your boss needs you to do more you do it or gtfo
I think there is a fundamental conflict of interest here where the profit motive incentivizes paying employees less and working them harder.
@@vova12 I think you may be correct that the phenomenon is more pronounced in the low barrier of entry (I don’t think saying “low skill” is quite correct) job sector. However, the culture of exploitation, more work for less pay, still exists in professional jobs because the underlying incentive of the profit motive is still in place. The difference arises from the differential cost in replacing a given worker, i.e., it costs more time and money to replace a civil engineer than a barista. When faced with two costly choices; replacing an employee, or getting a slightly lower work to pay ratio the boss will go for the lower cost. Because the cost of replacing a engineer is higher the companies owner or their agent (the manager) is more willing to consider introducing some work life balance. This is why labor unions have traditionally been very important for securing a decent standard of living in blue collar or low barrier of entry jobs.
if you were getting paid enough to be alive then congratulations. you are part of the .01 percent of humans that rich eurocentrics think deserve to be alive at least. they expect everyone else to do 150% for 1/5 the cost of keeping themselves barely alive with zero money to spend on anything but absolute necessities
I think that dr. K is far too generous with his views on employers. Most business models are literally "cheap labor+above and beyond=profit". That is a problem in and of itself because the positions within companies are in demand therefore they are worth more and better treatment. I fail to see how an individual could have even 50% blame in that situation.
I had the same reaction to the 50/50 thing. You’re potentially talking about someone trying to survive up against someone/something with orders of magnitude more power and wealth than they could ever hope to have. In what world is there equity in this exchange.
@@madgesmic That is my point though, a rather large portion of the issue is societal and there is nothing the individual can do.
How to tell Dr. K has never worked retail: he starts talking about nice bosses and reasonable expectations.
Has he ever worked a job like that at all? Has he ever struggled financially where his food/housing was hanging on a thread?
Every time I listen to his lectures about this I feel like he is very out of touch
He did actually work at an ice cream place and tod a story about it. I think he was lucky with his boss and it biased him.
Ex fast food employee here, had about 50/50 nice and rude management in my area. I think it's reasonable to expect people to have different experiences
@@0Josipa0 is this feeling coming from a logical conclusion or an emotional response?
I'm genuinely curious because you don't need to experience poverty to understand it, in my opinion. It definitely helps.
@@AnAwakenedPanda ofc you don't need to experience something to understand it. Even people who have experienced poverty may not be able to understand what other poor people are going through
It is interesting to listen to this in light of the fact that Dr K works closely with corporations and consults with executives making upper 6-figures. Proximity leads to bias, inevitably. We all have bias but his really came through for me in the people-pleasing conversation, how there was an absence of any mention of say, needing a promotion because you’re barely making a living wage. Your boss might be super nice and understanding but ultimately if they do promote from within/offer a raise it’s gonna be the guy who said yes to the project you said no to.
I don’t need my boss to be nice, I need executives (like the ones Dr. K works with) to correct the 10:1, 15:1 salary difference between themselves and their employees. I’m a big fan of the doc and I take some of the points in here but the discussion seems neglectful of the very real stakes for many of these low-level employees.
Lol 15:1, as if (What country are you in?) Try 1-300:1 (at least 144:1 according to Bloomberg another biased source)
If only there was something we could do about those pesky ratios. Maybe this website will have some ideas. C-> AFL-CIO paywatch (cant post links lol)
I work for a smaller company which is what I was thinking about (think 400,000 : 35,000) but they were rough numbers obviously. The real disparity is way worse you’re right
Also that website is fantastic and nuts, thank you for sharing it
Absolutely. An employee who for financial or other reasons cannot risk losing their job *has to* work harder and harder, while the company doesn't care about the emotional and physical stress it causes them - as long as they meet or exceed their profit margin, who cares about the employee's well-being?
"Quiet Quiting" was termed for the measurable loss in productivity before an employee officially submits their resignation. Now it's being used for "working according to the agreed upon terms of the contract".
I only hope that means the lazy person at work is going to quit soon
This video on the day our boss basically told us to ignore laws and work as much overtime as in any way possible is... a fun coincidence 🙃
8:00 yes thank you! This has always been something that’s annoyed me so much about the whole “quite quitting” thing.
There’s nothing wrong with going to work, doing what you need to do and going home. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Yes I just work for a pay check and there’s nothing wrong with that. I do like my job and I don’t want to strive for a promotion all the time.
Is it people pleasing or is it being terrified of the threat of being fired or retaliation and losing income/ability to have basic needs?
Right. Being an employee involves a certain level of coercion, there is a threat always lingering over your head.
God bless this comment. I hope Dr K sees responses like yours because it’s so disappointing how irrelevant and out of touch parts of this video are.
@@madgesmic yeah.. his content on this topic is extremely disappointing.
I don't think he even understand the issue of where these people come from. Very out of touch. His latest video as well..
Not saying his advice on this doesn't apply to anyone but it's completely missing the core issue.
Sometimes, it's this. But there can be times when people overestimate their risk of being fired or retaliated against, which people pleasers tend to do. That takes mental health work to figure out.
I would argue that if you are in this position in a developed western country, it's best to be looking for another job anyway, because you will get fired or retaliated against eventually in this atmosphere. These kinds of toxic workplaces tend to move goalposts, so your "burnout best" might not be adequate a year from now, or even 6 months from now.
In the software/game dev industries we call making "going above and beyond" the default "Crunch", which in some companies went from being a temporary thing that was neccessary now and then to being the full time state of operation. Only in a lot of places they made crunch illegal, so it sounds like they're trying to tiptoe around it and bring it back from another angle.
I think the problem lies in work culture, specifically in America. I don't know about the rest of the world but I know many European countries do not have a "grindset" mentality when it comes to work. Throughout human history people did not work the way we work now. You might think that in say the middle-ages people were doing back breaking work but really the pace was much slower than it is today. With all the advantages of modernity, I think we miss this key element which is that it takes a lot to keep a modern society functioning. We have idealized a society that has more features, more products, more amenities. We strive to constantly improve society and never really ask the question: is what we have good enough? Do we need to keep building and expanding and innovating at the same pace as the last hundred years. I think the answer is no. It is time for American society to slow down. We should shift our mindset toward providing necessities like medicine, housing, food and reducing waste and excess. The problem is that American culture cannot handle that concept. We take it as a given that our TVs should be getting bigger, cars should have more features, software should proliferate into every area of society. We act like we need these things because we have idealized modern living. and no I am not saying "return to monkey" I am saying work less, consume less, keep doing that until we reach some kind of equilibrium. /rant
This sounds to me like the core of buddism, where American culture is on a horse and it's gotta go, but to where
Absolutely agree. I would say it's a poison of Reagan-ism that began around the late 70's (Wish I could remember the doc that spells this all out with how economic policy RADICALLY changed around that time but it wasn't understood back then how it would affect things so it's rarely reported), but it's fueled by a sort of greed and hatred that we've been trying to expunge for a century or so now.
I try to NEVER forget that our nation had to literally KILL PARTS OF ITSELF to try to get itself from operating at 'peak efficiency' by having unpaid labor do your work for you. Like, that is NOT normal. And that mindset has never quite been removed from vast numbers of our population.
Well said.
I think you make a very interesting point! I think it is also interesting to consider where our culture comes from and what makes us different from (and maybe more workaholic than) Europe. In the post WWII years European leaders, company owners, politicians, oligarchs, and royalty faced a strong challenge from socialist and communist parties and labor unions. These leftwing parties and groups were very popular in Europe because they had just played leading roles in defeating fascism (e.g. partisan groups led by communists, red army killed ~85% Na*1 casualties) and increasingly winning elections as well as gaining support for a total societal overhaul. In order to placate the masses and stave off revolution European leaders passed concessions such as nationalizing the health, rail and air transportation, and energy sectors of the economy, guaranteeing new rights like to housing, food, and a union, providing generous unemployment benefits and pensions. These reforms made the societies that became known as social democracies. Due to the red scare, communism never really caught on in the USA in the same way, and as a result our New Deal didn’t go quite as far as the social democracies of Europe. Over time both the New Deal and European social democratic reforms have been rolled back somewhat through the neoliberal political movement but Europe has still managed to maintain more of their pro labor work culture.
The mindset is present in Hungary (central europe) too. Sometimes you are expected to deliver those results even if you have to stay 3 hours longer in a day, and that's not going to get payed as overtime. Difference is that in Hungary the minimum wage is like net 300 euros/month and if you make net 1k/month then that counts as a good salary but often times that's already a career top position.
I've felt burned out for years, but i dont actually work that hard. I know - sounds like laziness, and I've labelled that to myself - but doesnt help either. I feel most of it comes from resistance, and how subconsciously im spending energy avoiding work, because i feel like i should. I have no idea if that even makes sense - but i always feel guilty when i see people feeling the same as me for working TOO hard.
yeah, i think this might be what's sometimes called "assertiveness" (which is itself effort, maybe sometimes even more effort than it's worth) or attempts at "work-life balance" and sometimes called "self-sabotage" (even though the whole point is that more is just not practical sometimes). to be clear, i think people-pleasing can also result in a self-sabotaging (or, indistinguishable) effect.
Did the burnout happen first or the laziness. Cause if the burn out happened first then the laziness is a result of being burned maybe.
Call it what it is. "Work to Rule"
Working to the rules of your job, to the duties and responsibilities of your job, and nothing more without appropriate compensation and/or recognition. There's also nothing wrong with occasionally being willing to do a small extra thing for the betterment of the company because a successful company can take better care of their employees. But you need to make sure that if you do it more often than what is healthy for your work/life balance, that they are compensating you accordingly for that effort of putting work first during those efforts.
The problem with the overachieving people-pleasers often being the ones who get promoted (or at least used to, so now this is our generation of managers), the urge to people-please an authority tends to override people-pleasing subordinates.
Or, they suck at conflict with either and just try to minimize, dismiss, and sweep under the rug until the shit backs up to now their boss is breathing down their neck and they suddenly lash out to the subordinate because now any issues or problems with the subordinate's work -even minor- that wasn't informed of the need to change held accountable for bad work is suddenly hurled at them like a laundry list. Because the manager is now the one under fire and is trying to resolve displeasing authority by "making up" for the lack of accountability on their subordinates.
...ya know, maybe something like that... Never experienced it myself.... Nope, not me 🙃
new favourite answer to "what's your greatest weakness": i tend to be more of a people-pleaser than would be ideal for me, so i'm trying to learn to accommodate myself through improved communication that's more-consistently assertive, while acknowledging my limitations.
I am gonna steal this 🌞
Just starting this, but yeah I'm not thrilled about the term "quiet quitting". It causes confusion. "Acting your wage" is way more apt in my opinion. 👍👍
a related phrase: "you pretend to pay me, i'll pretend to work"
@@ozok17 yeah I've had to do manager work without the pay far too often in my past. I can definitely relate to that frustration 💯
I liked when Dr. K said unpaid overtime 2:54 , it's called wage theft
@@samv7212 yeah sometimes jobs say "do the whole job, no matter how long it takes you, but we're only able (willing) to pay you for your scheduled hours so don't claim overtime; if it takes you longer that's your problem." which sounds pretty similar to piece-work, except that you're also not allowed to leave if you finish faster than expected.
I feel guilty taking breaks at work, even restroom breaks. My coworker (who is on the management team) used to be particularly hard on this. I take as few breaks as possible and try not to use the restroom until it’s unbearable half the time. If I push myself hard it “relieves” him of the opportunity to pressure me to take fewer breaks (and we already work 70hrs/wk regularly, which is common for our industry). Sometimes he encourages me to take breaks, but if I do, he flip flops right back to telling me I need to work harder. He is contrarian by nature or nurture. Sometimes we work multiple weeks with no days off.
My contract ends in a few weeks. I hope the next job is less stressful than this one.😞 I am definitely feeling burnt out at this point. I have always been an industrious person but this is absurd.
I have worked 7 days a week since August and the only days off I had is 1 Sunday a month because me and some coworkers rotate and any vacations I used. Currently working under a tarp in doors, because they haven't fixed the roof from condensating on to machines for a year now so they tarp the ceiling for winter. I was once a people pleaser, but this place sucked that right out of me. Now I'll only do extra work if I have the time or capacity to do it. I'm still burnt out working on average 56 hrs a week. We use to have a whole schedule for the plant that worked with 7 days a week, but they took that away because half of the plant didn't need 7 days, but this half of the plant does.
Last time I had a conversation with a manager about this I was told I was "asking too for too many exceptions"
On #6, from the perspective of someone who has recently studied organisational behaviour and human resources as part of a course.
I have seen communication styles be brought up and the understanding of the nature of communication, with examples which show how frequently issues can arise from not understanding how people communicate
The term quiet quiet is the result of lack of communication from the management/personal side. It's a symptom of a larger problem.
Had too many narcissistic bosses that never listen to employee feedback, fake making changes, and can barely do their own job while focusing on making others harder to do. On top of that provide not even the bare minimum of communication, always in the dark and I can't even call it training its laughable.
To be honest. There is no point going above and beyond. You'll only burn and hurt yourself. You will be promised a raise or a promotion but nothing happens. Going above and beyond is useless. Just gather experience and quit, find a new job that pays more. You'll rise up the ranks much faster this way.
I’m also all for empowering the individual 1:1, and accepting situations as they are, but the messaging here seems off when you’re talking to a large audience and have some amount of power (however small) to influence people’s approaches to the broader, more fundamental problems. Yeah an individual employee is going to change more easily than a whole company-and then the latter will continue to do harm (often to its own detriment further down the line).
I really urge anyone watching to know their labor rights and support union efforts on TOP of addressing their own personal challenges. The real situation here often involves someone making absolute dirt working around the clock while their corporation dangles the carrot of a promotion that will never come. This scenario so, so ubiquitous, more so than I think gets acknowledged in this video.
This is exactly the situation I am in right now.
I am quitting a job that won't promote me.
The issue is I am actively doing the job that I want to be promoted too while doing the job I was hired for.
The only thing I am problematic in is getting to work on time, this was disclosed in my hiring process, I have health issues that are making it difficult, but the job I want does not require me to start at the same time I do right now, it gives me more than an hour of extra time to get to work.
I have done above and beyond and went unrecognised, so I'm not "quite quitting", I'm just quitting.
have faith in yourself. Chase your dreams.
I know life can be cruel to us at times. But it is up to us to take stock of the situation and rise.
sounds like you have examined both yourself and the situation. cool.
would be unfortunate if this employer was named and shamed, like they all should be. we NEED to shame the inhuman demons who expect to literally extract life out of other humans so they can acquire tons of crap they dont need out of existence or into improved behavior. if we dont, we enable them to keep getting worse. and the 99% of the human species currently dying from labor induced starvation definitely does not want to keep enabling these psychopaths
@@saturationstation1446 I'll have to disagree, I work for a non profit that does some good work and the people there are good people, I differentiate the work from the person.
The issue is the bureaucracy that makes the decision makers look at things that really don't account for success, but rather account for "by the book success", which is completely separate from productivity most of the time.
I won't shame them for being wrong, I'll leave and do right.
@@asshollff This brings up a relevant question: What would be a better way to measure success? It seems like there might be such a thing.
That dietician was clearly just selling stuff
@Mutt Languages Yeah, gotta watch people that say things like X generalised symptom IS a sign of Y thing (that they may be pushing a product/service for), instead of may be.
What do you do in a situation where you ask your boss openly about your experience with burnout and how to manage it and your boss basically goes "idk I'm burnt out too I am not good at managing it myself" I was just like... Ok. Well. We are both fucked.
Two heads are better than one. Problem solve, start with the small things and work your way up.
I need the full version of that productive song lol
The only perspective here is some guy high up in the company had a stupid idea to make more money for the company and convinced the other idiots, then start moving the people around he likes in better positions inventing new systems or outsourcing them and leaving responsibilities vacant because they didn't consider all the consequences of the idea. Then you are expected to pick it up while your own work is diminishing because they are trying to save money on you. Then they replace you with someone who is cheaper and doesn't know what is actually going on.
My personal experience with burnout definitely comes from both my eagerness to please and overachieve as well as late diagnosed ADHD and mental health issues, and heartless corporations bleeding employees dry for extra bucks. Also working in the service industry will destroy your spirit lickety split because people can be entitled and rude when they think you're beneath them.
My last job I was supposed to be working part time (would have been better for my mental health) but the store needed lots of help and I like feeling useful and was making minimum wage so basically worked 40h weeks to pay the bills and feel helpful. I liked the job and was happy there, got promoted to assistant manager within 3 months and then had to work 40h with no choice basically doing everything I did before + more, for an extra whopping $1/h. But benefits right...?! $100 of optical/year -_- Gee thanks that'll cover my eye test at least. I get why everyone except management is part time, so they don't even have to pay for THAT amount of benefits! The usual "hush hush about how much you're making" which is sus. I see job postings for people who just check over the bundles of bookwork I do that make the same $ as me on entry? And then pandemic hits and they did their best to keep us open as long as possible even though most of our staff was in the older age bracket and terrified, and only managers got a "paid day off for hard work through Covid!" when other employees were also on the front lines.
I couldn't take it. I like the place, I liked my manager, I liked some of the customers (others were entitled and obnoxious), I liked organizing and I liked doing the books in the morning and after close, I liked the ladies I worked with... I didn't like knowing how much the company made while paying us pennies, I didn't like not having enough downtime for myself and family and friends, I didn't like feeling so drained at the end of the day I would have to sob on the kitchen floor for half an hour before scraping myself up and making dinner, then eating, going to bed, and doing it all again in the morning - all just to barely get by and feel completely uncared for and disrespected by the people that were making their money off of my energy and efforts. So I quit.
Never again.
Sorry for the novel. Lol.
As a side note, I also thought it was interesting when Dr. K said 24:31 “your boss may be a people pleaser too, they might have gotten their position because they were so good a pleasing people.” I immediately thought who are they pleasing? They got their position by pleasing their boss, who is, or in turn has to please, the owner of the company. Their job as a manager continues to be contingent on pleasing ownership, not the people who work under them, and the best way to do that is to maximize the companies profit by getting the most work for the lest amount of pay from their employees. Even if the people pleasing personality of your manager genuinely makes them want to help you, they are faced with a conflict of interest between helping you or helping themselves/their higher-ups. This makes it rare that a boss will offer you the kind of help that cost the company, but you can look forward to all kinds of meditation apps.
yeah i gained access to our sales info and it made me lose the ability to believe employers have the capacity to treat humans like humans. nothing like seeing that you (who did most of the work in this place) are generating thousands of dollars in net profit per shift but the employer thinks you only deserve 25 dollars per 8 - 10 hour shift... no one with a soul can justify that. maybe if the cost of living was like 800 dollars per month but its at least 4 times that now (if you want to actually be gaining anything from the employment instead of just barely staying alive)
I loved the balanced outlook at the whole situation. It's a dynamic between a company and the individual. A lot of problems can be fixed on the individual, more than people imagine.
I love the psychological analysis here, however I think it is very hard to have a complete discussion of this topic without talking about capitalism.
In the first clip, for example, the lady is getting burnt out because despite taking on increasing workload there is no promotional potential in her position. This is because under capitalism the owner of the company benefits from extracting the maximum amount of labor for the minimum pay to their workforce (profit motive) so, they are incentivized to create a “workaholic” workplace culture. Even if you have a really nice boss at a small company who cares about and wants to pay their workers well, doing so runs the risk of making their company uncompetitive against other companies that can offer the same or better products/services for less cost by more thoroughly exploiting their employees (TRPF). Furthermore, Dr. K discusses why it may not be in the company owner/shareholders’ best interest to promote from within. This conflicts with the interests of sales/entry-level/non-managerial employees who often need a promotion to have a successful career, one that allows them to live in a place of their own, start a family, or even have the dignity of life that comes from not living paycheck to paycheck.
Under an alternative mode of production to capitalism such as a cooperative where all workers are part owners of the company, the same incentives for and conflict between employees and ownership do not exist. Take, for example, the sales rep, who is really good at sales, but doesn’t have strong managerial skills. In a worker cooperative, they may not even want the manager job because they like sales, they like being good at what they do, and their pay is not tied to getting a promotion it is tied to the overall performance of the company, so instead of being incentivized to demonstrate managerial skills in a sales position they can focus on being a really good at sales - their actual job duties.
In the second clip the reason its is unlikely, hard, and maybe even impossible for an employee to have an “honest” conversation with their boss about work-life balance, burnout, or quiet quitting is the power imbalance the conflict of interest (see above) between the employer and employee. When your boss has the power to fire you on a whim of course you would want to conceal any evidence you are anything other than the most productive worker possible. Dr. K even says “quiet quitting sounds like a fire able offence. Once again, we see the profit motive creates a culture of overwork at companies as Dr. K points out, “since when was doing your job considered quitting?”
What if there was a way to mitigate this power imbalance though. What if you got together with all your co-workers and said if you fire one of us without just cause we are all walking off the job. You could even form a labor union and protect this right with a contract. A company down 1 worker runs a little slower, but a company with no workers quickly grinds to a halt and runs out of money as bills pile up. And so, emboldened by your fellow workers backing you up, your boss less able to fire you at a moment’s notice, you can create space for a conversation about work-life balance on more equal terms.
In conclusion, “quiet quitting” isn’t a new phenomenon, it’s the latest term for the labor alienation described 2 centuries ago and a feature inherent in capitalism. While psychological tips can help us cope with the circumstances we currently face, they are not a substitute for changing the societal structures that underly our workplace relationships and result in external factors that drive our mental state.
TLDR join/form a union!
Real quick - More people need to read and appreciate this comment!
Speaking as someone who is in the process of leaving the mental health field (throwing away tens of thousands of dollars invested in education and licensing) after one job that destroyed my drive to do the work, not in ANY WAY due to me people-pleasing and going above and beyond and has EVERYTHING to do with the employer undervaluing my team, not listening to us, and making the bare minimum expectation for our job absurdly unreasonable (with the consequence being mentally unwell children could DIE), this video really needs a clarifier that people pleasing is not always the cause of burnout.
People are afraid to take sick leave, take it, nobody can do anything to you, it's your right, make shit up, as long as you don't go to your doctor and say "im just stressed" it's good. Take sick leave, rest, but really rest and meditate often, it will help you think things through and it will probably serve as a reset at the very least, in the best case your burnout will be completely gone and you will be fresh
To me, quiet quitting is about doing less until you find out what the bare minimum actually is. The bare minimum often ends up being way way less than you might have expected
great vidoe, thanks for talking about it!
On the first point, if you are interested and want to learn more on the Peter Principle and rising to the level of incompetence, I would recommend the podcast episode Freakonomics Radio 495: Why are there so many bad bosses?
It’s been awhile since I listened but it was interesting dives a little deeper on the topic.
Surely from a statistical POV there would be way more bad employees if we assume competence and incompetence averages out
Why dont we talk about that ?
@@tommehzlol that's not how statistics work. If every employee is average, how does that make them bad employees?
You may have a bias against employees and for employers if that's how you view the stats.
@@AnAwakenedPanda No you misunderstand. There are more employees than employers, from a magnitude perspective , that's a given. Assuming that across the board, humans (whether employee or employer) are PROPORTIONALLY equal in terms of competence and if we assign some random % that say 30% of employees are bad and so are 30% of bosses - since there are more employees than bosses, there are significantly more bad employees than employers in the workforce.
But we never talk about employee incompetence only employers. I've been an employee at small and big companies and have always noted it was the duds or just average employees that scream and cry about injustices in their seniority, overinflating their own competence.
Dunning-kruger, essentially
@@tommehzlol Why would we talk about employee incomoetence, its expected, its a given. As you said there are far more employees than bosses which means far more incompetent employees than bosses. There is no examination since statistics takes care of the answer. Now if in a particular lets say subset of employees we found out that more than 75% are incompetent, then that's something worth examining. Since there are fewer bosses overall and since we know those bosses have been selected out of the larger pool as competent (otherwise they would not have been bosses) then isn't it peculiar that there are so many bad bosses? Numbers should show the opposite actually. Which means the selection process of promotion is flawed. That's what the Peter Principle suggests, by system design we end up with incompetent people on the higher levels of hierarchy. I have not listened to the podcast though, so I do not have an opinion on that.
I know all my engineering friends are facing that first example lmao. Everything is basically based off tenure where I'm at.
FYI, some level or cortisol is also healthy an normal, for example cortisol spike in the morning help us wake up and be ready for the day, not having that can disturb sleep and circadian rythme
The problem is when your boss doesn’t listen or acknowledge that staffing isn’t adequate.
I think quiet quitting is mostly an umbrella term for a literal 'bare minimum'. Meaning there are people who do what their job description entails, then stops - all the way to people rushing their job, then wasting time for the rest of the shift. Ive had peers who would sleep in between tasks, yes they are technically doing their job, but no, we don't want people literally sleeping on the job.
I literally wish we lived in a world where the person who can get away with sleeping on the job isn't required to wake up too early for their circadian rhythm or isn't required to work a whole 8 hour day or all sorts of better solutions that gives them more sleep and less expectation of working more. Just accept that the system is very broken currently and prioritize the employee's quality of life
BE PRODUCTIVE got me. I want that song
3 minutes in. Have to reply. My work company expects everyone to go above and beyond all the time. It’s only those that stand out amongst their peers that shine and get promoted.
I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's bad to expect workers to go above and beyond with no real incentives beyond "maybe" you'll get a promotion. The people who just want to do their jobs should be able to.
I think that the people pleaser’s become managers is a good point. It’s in their nature to please people, and they know what people higher up need because they communicate down. The people pleasers lower in the totem pole need to communicate back up.
Phrased poorly but gets point across
Most jobs don't have anything to give for going above and beyond. So I'd rather spend time with my family and living my life while still working and getting my job done during the 9-5
I once got a coupon for a free muffin at the canteen for "exceeding expectations" for several months in a row 🙄
Realistically speaking, people want a promotion because their current position barely pays a living wage, not because they think that they are such a good fit for that promotion.
Exactly, which isn't really in the best interests of companies if they are getting mediocre workers for all their positions.
Why are they mediocre? Because in general, they aren't capable of higher positions and have no REAL incentive to go above and beyond. So, the golden workers leave to greener grass.
So how does one counter the Peter(?) Principle. What it sounds like is just that the guy that's good at sales ideally never gets promoted to different responsibilities, just gets pay bumps, but that doesn't happen. So what to do?
Its a hard thing to counter since its such an entity that its deserving of having a "Principal". The assumption for this in an owner perspective is he is such a good salesman, I shall promote him so he is in charge of making more good salesmen, wow hes pretty good at being a manager, we have lots of good salesmen now I'll promote him to store owner so I can start having even better managers who will also train really good salesmen!!!!!
And then it turns out he really cannot support the work or brain power required for the logistics needed to run an entire store to anything better than Average person.
I don't know a good answer to this question, but maybe promotions have been overrated too much. What is the essential gain of a higher position in a company? Wouldn't a raise also be a good enough compensation? And if people wan't to get "more" out of their career they can go up, but don't just simply "climb the career ladder" purely for getting a "nicer" or "better" role.
@@gimmedatcake4785 that's what I said if you read it again. It would be a perfect world if that happened, but that is not the case sadly
It’s a good question that gets to the heart of the matter. It has to do with the fundamental capitalist principals we have organized our economy around. Under an alternative mode of production to capitalism such as a worker cooperative where all workers are part owners of the company, the same incentives for and conflict between employees and ownership do not exist. Take, for example, the sales rep, who is really good at sales, but doesn’t have strong managerial skills. In a worker cooperative, they may not even want the manager job because they like sales, they like being good at what they do, and their pay is not tied to getting a promotion it is tied to the overall performance of the company, so instead of being incentivized to demonstrate managerial skills in a sales position they can focus on being a really good at sales - their actual job duties.
Under the current organization of the economy you have correctly pointed out that there is little incentive for an owner to give raises to a employee in the same position because that will just reduce the profit they can keep for themselves.
Interesting point of view on the promotion's topic. Hadn't thought about it like that before. I guess I'm biased due to working in tech.
In most large tech companies (especially for engineers), promotions are lagging. You need to demonstrate you're operating at that next level consistently (1+ year) before you get a promotion.
such a weird model. but yeah.
As someone in tech who got promoted from engineer to management, PLEASE give me back the technical work! I find it so much more enjoyable.
@@H4chiSama You can do that yourself if your company has an IC alternative to the management career track. Just hop on the individual contributor track instead. There are no rules saying you can't ever change your mind
I need to become a producer not a consumer. Working to meet another man’s expectations of me is not ideal. I’m just not agreeable enough. Money isn’t that deep. 😅
Ask far as people pleasing responsibility lyes with both parties. The one people pleasing has work to do internally about boundaries and other things. The company needs to stop exploiting it because they will. There's my take. By the way people pleasing is a struggle that I'm working on.
About working on these failings when do I have the time or energy to do that. Another reason for this.
You do have good points.
This falls apart when the example he gave is completely fleshed out. If the nursing unit does not have enough staff to keep patients safe, then there's no "plan" I can work out with my charge nurse to change my behavior that will make any difference. I'm not a people pleaser because I run to help another nurse when her patient's heart stops---it is company policy and the requirements of my licensure that I help. There's nothing I can change within myself to get more nurses onto the unit so that lives can be saved.
And this isn't a "just work for a different hospital then" kind of issue. All hospitals are like this. They run lean on purpose, and I know lots of other industries do this too. If we stop our so called people pleasing then the business literally shuts down. My self regulation changes nothing in a system that runs so lean that I'm doing the work of two or three people.
I don't think Dr K was talking about life or death situations, that's obvs a special case. I appreciate everything nurses do, but I can't do anything to help, really, besides encouraging nurses to unionize (with a *strong* union, that's key)
Not everyone can nor should work a job that's that taxing.
It sounds like nurses are literally being asked to do the job of two or even three people. Maybe some people can handle that, I'd be out.
The wildest thing to me is that at every job I worked at people do less than the bare minimum. Doing the absolute minimum or just one step above has got me all kinds of recognition and promotions. I'm sure there are people out there that have went above and beyond and received nothing for it, but most of the people saying that are actually not doing a good job to begin with.
You may just be very charismatic and good at making people like you. In my expierience it's WAY better to do the minimum and learn how to make people feel smart and liked. WITHOUT coming across as a brown noser.
Than it Is to crush all your targets all the time and not really focus on your relationships at work. Don't just be nice to the boss. Build everyone up. Everyone in that office needs to know your name.
My old boss created a hellish landscape in order to please guests and upper management.
You're spot on because she was a people pleaser and would absolutely try to fix anything that stresses you out, if you ask. She definitely didn't lose her tendency to be a people pleaser when promoted lol
Americans have a very strange relationship to work I have learned from this video
Sounds so foreign, but they are so successful as an economy and society - makes you think
@@TheKlaun9 as society, a successful society focus on the working class not the wealthy
@@soy_boy69 that's a category mistake, but a common one. The term "working class" is difficult at best, but people with a lot of assets can be working class still while a person that isn't working class is not automatically wealthy. It's fine, a bit pedantic perhaps of me - I know what you mean, but it kind of hints at a terrible possibility.
Since you made such a mistake, I assume that someone gave you that statement or general idea - you don't seem to be an expert in Marxism or economy. Be really careful with that idea. Chances are that someone who profits immensely with people thinking like that, e.g. an incompetent government or other political entity, is your source there. Maybe through a couple of other people, but somewhere down the line, that idea is deeply ideological, authoritarian and most likely a straight up lie to justify something rotten (to simplify: propaganda). Unless you're an alien from Mars or so that lives outside the context of human history, be aware that people talking like that don't always have your best interests in mind.
@@TheKlaun9 are they? Some are, and there's a lot of money floating around, but most Americans are not doing very well at all. You can't trust a society that has a high maternity death rate.
@@shoepixie I'd love to have that conversation, but I don't think youtube comments are the format for it. If you truly want to engage, please make a better case for them being unsuccessful (compared to whom?) than this death rate - if you follow that logic, Belarus is doing really well. People are foolish not to recognize the immense global power (economically, culturally, politically and militarily) the US has. Cherry picking some statistic is just making excuses. Europe has been doing that for ages, laughing at the stupid Americans, fancying themselves superior, and now look at it.
That is the longest reaction to the shortest video that I ever saw...
I get the hypothetical you gave at 18:30, but I just don't think that it is something that really exists in the real world, at least not at entry level jobs.
like, I totally agree with what you were talking about people getting promoted to their point of mediocrity, and that leads to managers and "leaders" who, even if they are "nice people" they aren't able to properly communicate when something HAS to be done, vs when they are asking if you are able to take on more.
also, I do see that since it's a convergence of employer expectations and employee bandwidth, so there is responsibility on both sides. However, anybody in any kind of management or leadership needs to recognize that there is an inherited power imbalance. So, while I do still agree that there needs to be a middle ground, I think that there's a wide gap in understanding coming from the side of corporations and managers...
kind of rambley, but I hope this makes sense
found your videos a couple months ago, really really valuable stuff here.
keep up the great work!
one problem with "entry level jobs" is that people sometimes assume they're only going to basically teenagers. relatedly, people tend to undervalue teenagers. also a lot of supposedly entry-level jobs require quite a bit of background and aren't actually entry level.
I'm 38 years old and I never used Facebook or tiktok 😀
For the "people pleasers vs companies" question: I think the companies are at fault/responsible. I'll give an example:
Let's say that someone is a people pleaser because for their parents, nothing they did was ever good enough. They start a job at a company X. Because of their dysfunctional upbringing they do 110% to please the "authority". They are told they need to do more, they go up to 115%, then 120%. Meaning that at some point they have no free time for themselves, and the work takes up all of their life. This means that they have no time or *free emotional capacity* to realise that something has to change. As long as they don't have time to think of the reasons for their behaviour, they cannot change it.
Meanwhile, the company keeps asking more from the employee, because the more the employee works with the same salary, the more profits they get. They don't want to give this person a raise or relocate them in the company, because they're doing the job of two people as it is, and that's great for the company.
Once this employee burns out and has to cut down their workload, the company starts guilting them. Telling how disappointed they are in this employee's current input to their job. The focus is on how the *employee* has done something wrong because they cannot handle the workload. Not in the fact that the company was asking this worker for too much to begin with. They'll bring up how the employee's sick days are a problem, and might even hint at possibly being fired if the employee doesn't go back to their "normal".
I have seen a scenario like this happen too many times in many companies I've worked for. Different kinds of companies, of different sizes. The problem is that so many companies/managers treat their employees like slaves. To them, it's just "slavery with extra steps" (like they say in Rick & Morty).
To add another way to think about this: You wouldn't blame the victim of narcissistic abuse for the abuse that happened to them just because the victim is a people pleaser. It would be terrible to tell them "Yeah, but you did make it easy for them to abuse you, so it's your fault."
Whoever coined the term "quiet quitting" is either dumb, or they are intentionally trying to sabotage the word in order to make it look bad. "Act your wage" is far more accurate and agreeable
7:50 Yeah wtf
When you start a new job you should intentionally do poorly so that your boss can coach you and then feel like they did good when you improve to the level you could have been day 1
Sometimes Dr. K has great advice and sometimes he sounds like he's had the kind of privilege (career path: monk, then doctor) makes it impossible for him to understand what the working class endures while working for entitled boomer narcissists for decades. Speaking from 30+ years of work experience, there are more shitty jobs out there than good ones, but we all need to pay the bills or end up homeless.
So much benefit of doubt for a tiktok dietician
I think this video has some over generalizations. The point wasn’t really clear to me
It's a reaction vid. It's inherently going to be tl;dr.
@@inhop2443 true
My biggest complaint with companies is an innate lack of transparency even from the get go most places won't tell you if they even received your resume unless you get called in for an interview not to mention all the prior history people can look up now on the internet, 50 years ago a murderer could be hired without knowledge nowadays if you say a slur on Twitter 8 years ago its an auto out
last part isnt true at all. if you say slurs you are likely to get hired or promoted to higher paying positions. if you advocate for labor unions within the past 5 years tho, instant fire or ignored application. happened to me a few times now
@@Anonymoose66G no matter how hard you try whatever you put on the internet stays on the internet forever, there is no "deleting" something.
@@Anonymoose66G you do realize how much work that is. That a normal person won't do...for an entry level job
@@tundrafire2590 It's not just for an entry level job, it's for internet safety, privacy and security, it's not difficult to use a web scraper, data breach checker, password manager, enable 2FA on everything, don't click on links, don't share details, and delete some old google and social media accounts it'll take a day max.
yes of course. money. so much less important than human decency.
👍👍👍
I don't know, I'm self-employed, I think stop pleasing the customer will turn out into not having food in my plate. Maybe I should download one of those magic wellness apps...
They call them magical because it seems like an illusion that things can get better sometimes.
The Dilbert Principle. Look it up.
This man does nothing but preach. Hes wonderful. Yes burnout is real, but you need to communicate with your boss. Tell them things. They arent magical creatures who are absolved of humanity because they have authority. Theyre human beings, they can be communicated with. Dont take on extra work you dont need to. Dont complain about working on your day off if your boss asks you and you say yes.
I will certainly complain about being asked to work on my day off, while not working, obvs
You guys getting jobs? XD
So so so out of touch.
You said it all!
I'm becoming more and more convinced Dr. K watches tiktoks and calls it 'work'
Gamers
The fallacy in all this is that it assumes all employees are competent and all employers are the devils who only want to milk their workers.
The gap to the invert scenario is closer than people want to believe.
clearly you were born well off
@@saturationstation1446 false, i came to australia after the Vietnam war with my parents with nothing.
Next ?
Stop the slave mentality u are the one who do the work and get a tiny slizw from it .
@@soy_boy69 you clearly are either young or have never dived into business ownership.
He did mention that the highest efficacy is individual change. He also mentioned how businesses and governments are responsible and culpable, it's simply not fast or effective enough to help.
It's easier to stop yourself from being a people pleaser than to help management learn to deal with people pleasers.
Why do you refer to women as non binary? Seems rude.