$10K-$12K for a giant aluminium door stop. Kudos to you Daniel for the informative video and to Andrew for the steady camera work. Powell Machine for the win. 👍👍
I will NEVER have a use for this information but I really enjoy listening to someone that obviously knows what they’re talking about explain something that I don’t fully understand.
My local machine shop, on the last engine I built - would as questions like: how many 10,000ths do you want for bearing clearance. I know EXACTLY what is in the engine and I have the tools to double check their measurements (they were dead on within +/- 1 10,000 of an inch.). Support your local (performance) machine shop - they are an invaluable resource!
confuse9: (actual solid advice for how to do it right) Average fool who thinks they know better: "Aw naw that's just a ripoff, why spend even more money? Me and my buddy know what Harbor Freight is pal, we can get grinders and welders for cheap."
My local machine shop was the opposite. When I showed up with my clean .0001 mics and bore gauge they admitted their tools were old and worn out. .002 taper along a short 4cyl crank. They refunded my money, replaced my crank and I now go elsewhere.
@@mybossisdrunk I didn't say wrenches. Grinders and welders. The tools that are valuable in the right hands sure, but are also used by fools who think they know what they're doing and think taking a grinder to a mating surface to "make it better" in their contorted backyard view will solve problems. Or the opposite direction, building up material with a welder but again without knowing what they're doing.
You keep a clean shop, that's how you know quality work is done there. If you can't be bothered to keep your shop clean, what else can't you be bothered to do? Probably many things.
If Daniel was to mention or hint in any way who built the engine, do you know the angst it would cause him. Law suits everywhere. The truth counts very little as defense in a court room. Find out from the owner but no way should say who it is. Then for goodness sake, do not publish or say in any way in an open forum who that builder is, or they will be chasing you. If you do, only the lawyers make money - out of you. Ask any lawyer who watches this video.
Yeah I feel this would be a bad idea for him man. If there is someone absolutely scamming or conning intentionally, maybe it’s worth calling them out. But if it’s just someone that admittedly isn’t very competent, I feel like it’s just sort of classless going after them with a CZcams channel. Not to mention the legal trouble that would ensue. It would probably divide viewers, be kind of off topic for him, and might cause legal issues. More worth it to educate people, and also hope people do their own research, rather than to lambast every Tom Dick and Harry that sucks at building engines.
I mean they got Yelp for a reason. So what’s the difference in this man telling us all who built this? Legally I guess I just don’t see what could happen? Maybe if he said “do not go to bob the engine builder because he is a moron..” maybe then it’s a bigger problem? But just briefly saying who did it ? Idk I’m sure the person could sue but i don’t think anything would happen. You could post a google review telling everyone the guys a piece of shit. It would stop others from making the same mistake. Now it could make his viewers think of him differently but he has a ton of character and is good guy it wouldn’t effect him for long if at all. I think most of us would appreciate the heads up. Whoever built that already has others they are building and probably fuckingn them up too if no one says anything it won’t stop.
To all, It's not whether you're right or wrong, it's the amount of money and time you're willing to spend in court. Many people think "I'll win because I'm in the right." That's probably true in the end. The question becomes how much money and time you're willing to send to get to the end result. Civil cases can take YEARS to settle and somebody has to pay your lawyer until you get a final judgement, if you ever do. It's just not worth naming names when you've got other, and better, things to do with your time and money. Welcome to the real world of running a business.
That does look like a DSS piston. The groove in the skirt helps direct oil to where it can do some good when the piston to wall is larger, like you find on a forged performance piston when installed properly. It works well when you use a good Napier ring. I have used many DSS pistons, I know the guys there and they make a quality product. They have an outstanding facility, and even make their own forgings in house, not many piston makers do. I can assure you Tom makes a top quality product. It's a shame the engine was never right. Unfortunately this happens far too often. Thanks for the video.
I just watched a few of your videos and they are great. I'm a retired mechanic and I like to watch videos to stay up to date on the industry. Never too old to learn new things. Happy Holidays.
That is sad! So many people take no pride in there work and do not care about the consumer. It's a shame. I'm new to your channel. Great content! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
The scary thing is the person probably did take pride in their work but either have a substance abuse problem or just got in over their head on something they thought they knew they knew what they were doing. I made a lot of mistakes in the trade I’m in when I was green and thought I was good at what I do at that time. It honestly looks more like ignorance to me but who knows because I’m ignorant to engine building haha.
Seeing the welds on the crankshaft and the tape covering their signture marking, I may have an idea of what company built this.. Friend of mine lost a slug they weld in to balance the crankshaft. It was supposed to have been a 408. Upon tear down we found a stock GM crankshaft. Another friend bought a 416 from the same company that started burning oil and had excessive blow by. A local shop here has done very good work for us over the past couple of years. They may take a bit longer to get the work done, but the money saved has been a blessing!
Im in my 60s. Back in the day we didnt have so many companies making aftermarket parts. Building was more simple, but we could never match todays performance. Great video with a lot of great info. Love learning new stuff.
Now aftermarket is junk. I watch a couple of mechanics on Yourtube. They continually get new junk parts that don't work out of the box. One guy goes to the local junkyard and get used OEM that actually work.
Not just hacks when a platform.performs so well stock it causes guys that didn't grow up building engines ls and lt flooded the market and race seen with shit box builds turbo ls everywhere with no true skills if I was you I would bow out
nice to see some one who knows his stuff , very informative & who ever put that motor together , needs to watch - power machine inc - to do the job right .
I learned about fillet clearance 40 years ago. I had a shop grind a steel crankshaft for a 327. They didn't tell me they ground a larger radius and I put stock bearings in it. Even though I checked all of my clearances and even plastigaged the main journals it got tight when I torqued the main bolts. I ordered new bearings and everything was golden. That was an L79 327/350hp 4-speed in a 1966 Chevy II. Man those were fun little cars!
i just found your channel from that valve job video the other day. damn you are a smart guy. its awesome to see this level of teardown and analysis. im a 16 year VW technician. great work bro. i wish we had shops like this out here. i can't send anything out and trust it around here.
The assembler needed a revised edition of basic engine assembly 101. What a costly mess. Back in the early '80's my brother in law left his 1973 edition of Chilton's which lucky for me was for 1966 through '72 I believe, anyways School was in session. 😊 Thanks for sharing.
Very first engine I built [long ago] bit me in a similar way. I didn't think about timing sprocket clearances - just assumed new part meant "good", as many before me. Looking at dozens of other folks rebuild videos, its probably the biggest assumption going: I don't recall even one that measured that part on the crank before the timing chain install - they all magically "fit"/nobody knew their numbers. In my case it was a sbc, and the register for the crank sprocket was nearly 0.015" larger than spec as ground - a monstrous interference, about 10x anything acceptable. Needing to reach for a shop hammer after heating the sprocket told me... go buy a micrometer. So I did. Then I had sprocket [which was made correctly] resized, as the bottom end was already put together.
@@powellmachineinc3179 I'm assuming that the engine didn't come with a warranty because it was SUPPOSED to be high performance or the fact that the customer used the oem oil pump gear that cracked instead of upgrading to a aftermarket gear voided the warranty which is why the original engine builder isn't fixing the problem and you are inspection and telling the customer his options concerning the possibility of salvaging this engine ?
It’s hard these days to find a top notch machinist(s) that knows his business including experience. Thanks for sharing and “A Word to the Wise it Should be Sufficient to the Wise, Abort this Engine”.
Yeah. Most of them only know the traditional things like Boring or head rebuilding. I live in a big city with lots of machinists. I recently tried to find a machinist to drill straight shot oil holes into a brand new forged crankshaft, but it had no oil holes whatsoever. Nobody would touch it. They were afraid. I ended up buying some long drill bits at Ebay and drilling the holes myself with a Hand Drill. It taught me how disgusting and overpriced machine shops can be.
I couldn't run from that job fast enough. I feel bad you though. You're right in the ''best'' place to get dragged in the middle of his fight with the hack that built it.
Pretty amazing when you down a 250k mile LS. Rod&mains look new. Still crosshatch in the bores. How do high $ engine builders get it so wrong all the time? Kinda supports the stock bottom end LS guys going 7's in the quarter. Better to leave it alone, than to have a HACK build your engine
Subscribed tonight after seeing this video. The one you did a while back on the Amazon/Ebay PAC-Fu-Yung springs vs. Legit PAC springs was enlightening. Wild how some people have no problem ripping someone off like that.
Thanks - great video and education! Had "expert" build my 56 dodge hemi and it sounded like a diesel. Only ran it for 5 minutes, but the problem was the pistons were just barely hitting the heads. I tore it down and all the bearings were ruined. Later I found out from hot rodders how stupid I was to give him work.
Well, I just subscribed. I'm a HD fan, but love machine work. It's amazing that those that assemble builds don't know and test for headspace, endplay, etc.. Want to save money check it all! Great channel!
Years ago we had a guy with a 427 Ford steel crank put the 4 speed in from his 289 and the end of the input shaft was longer than an Fe input shaft . It spun the thrust and caught the thrust side of the shaft because the crank was pushed forward . Lots of work repairing that one .
Things haven't changed in 50 years. I used to build small block Chevies in the 70's, (actually everything from lawn mower engines to motorcycle engines, to SBCs and BBCs) and I lost count of how many terrible hammer-mechanic "rebuilds" I had to re-rebuild because of stupid, obvious problems that any goof should have noticed when fitting and assembling an engine. Mis-matched parts, el-cheapo oil pumps, or junkyard oil pumps that should have been scrapped out, piston-to-bore clearances you could measure with a carpenter's tape measure, rings upside-down; I could write a book on that stuff. You are evaluating the engines that you look at the same way I used to - you pay attention to the details AND the overall product, not one or the other. As such, you earned my subscription.
Thanks again for the detailed explanation of these things. I know you are going to laugh when you here my question, but do you ever do any projects with small engines? I'm talking about a Subaru EX 21 for a Mokai kayak. 4 stroke, 1 cylinder engine. I've bought a crankshaft, and now I need to get the rest of the parts - piston, rings, rod, etc. I took it to my machine shop here in Kansas City Missouri, (where I had an engine short block built) and they said it was not anything they worked on. These motors are used to power the Mokai kayaks and only put out 7 or 9 hp. Fun for old guys at speeds of 12 mph, but can go in shallow water. Hunting/fishing/treasure/arrowhead hunting hobbyists.
Wow, you have so much experience in your job. That was so detailed that if you went into more detail this video would be over an hour long. I remember rebuilding stock non-performance engines as a kid and never paid any attention to the original vs the OEM after-market stuff.
Just last week i took apart a Ducati with a rod bearing spun, everything ok except one of the rod cap alignment pins was missing a half so it was alighned crooked when the rod was tightened. Meassured the crank, only needs a polish, oil pump perfect, even the rod is fixable at the machine shop. Everything else seems to be made of unobabtanium weird how the crank survived.
I loved your, "Yeeeeepp..." looking at the piston! My oldest uncle used to work truck motors and that popped out all the time. Customers would claim this n that so he'd putll out the part and show them with a long "Yeeeepp..."
Yep and gen 5 factory rods have no chamfer at all so befor you throw stuff together you gotta check what crank ya got. Thanks for pointing that out to people!!
Some times you need to know when to walk away from a job. Looks like the thrust bearing was cut for more clearance due to the oil pump and gear issue. Pete at Pete's machine use to warranty his machine shop work and his rebuilt engines until he had to rebuild this one engine three times. Come to find out someone stopped by the shop and told Pete that he had seem the fellow at the drag strip when he blew the engine up racing. After that info Pete said when he rebuilds an engine he will not give anyone a guarantee that it will even start little say run. As is no warranty - is what you get when the machine work is done. Good info thanks.
Ol' Billy 3 teeth puts together a great motor. I save $300 dollars labor on every unit. And with that pallet of out of spec bearings, we should make our sales target this month.
I always check the press on those stock gears and hone them if needed. Some of them can be excessive in my opinion. We had somebody split one just like that installing oe gear on oe crank due to too much press.
Wow brother, they got taken bad. I am building a Ls3. I had seen those E-Bay engines for 8 or 10 grand and I just couldn't trust it. I'm sure there are some really good ones out there but with my luck, that's what I would have gotten. I feel bad for your customer. Wow. Thank you for this episode. And the content.
I have studed caps before and checked eqch one and the allign bore as a hole and was well within spec. That is rare, so unless your going to do a lot of checking i would align bore almost everything
Aluminum blocks move, all bores may measure good but not all be in line, so we always dust a line hone through to verify, it's just 1 more box to check.
I remember reading Smoky Yunicks builders guide for the small block Chevy years ago and even back then they would use a pocket knife and relieve the Clevite 77 main bearings and rod bearings for this radius in the corner also pistons must be put on the rods with the relief pointing towards the radiused side of the crankshafts rod journal or else the person who is only looking at the arrow on the piston crown might not catch this mistake if they are not veteran engine assemblers this is especially important if you are using pressed in pins that the person who installs the pistons onto the rods understands that they are directional same goes for using full floating pistons but they can be reversed if the assembler catches an error a lot easier without special equipment like a rod oven I was also taught to make sure you can easily hand turn the crank after you get the mains installed before you proceed to install the rod bearings that way if you feel a clearance issue you don't have so far to back up to find what is wrong that oil pump drive-timing gear problem is a real gotcha though I can see how it would be easy to make that mistake if you were in a rush and haven't seen that problem before ahead of time.It is not a good idea to rotate the crankshaft until the bearings have been torqued though because without being torqued the bearings are not being mated to the journals or crushed into being round I see a lot of guys lay a well oiled crankshaft into only one half of the bearings and then spin it and granted it probably doesn't do much since everything is well lubricated and it is only being turned by hand but that bearing still isn't really ready for the crankshaft to be rotated until after it has been torqued up and when I see people doing this it lets me know they don't understand how these bearings work. There is a lot to building a proper engine even just in the assembly phase it needs to be done methodically with all the right pre lube and steps or else you wind up with junk like this .
If you hold your tongue just right you can buff that cylinder out, use the scratch be gone hone and a little engine rebuild in a can. All the Best, Howard
You can have the same problem with the fillet under the head of a screw if the washer ID is too small or doesn't have a chamfer. A crack can start under the head, leading to fatigue failure.
I would absolutely love to build a motor with my own parts choice. But there's not much room for error and you can get a nice blueprint for less. Building your own there's a lot of tolerances to measure I'd hate to spend 10 grand and find out I slipped up.
Hello guys good informative video, I hate working behind & straighten out others crap. When you find a g machine shop don't worry about the time. Stay with them dam it or his next video will be your eng. Keep up the great videos fella.
I'm not a big fan of Direct Injection... I remember the first time I did an oil change on one of my vehicles that has Direct Injection. I freaked out at first because the oil was thin and all I could smell was gasoline. Supposed "fix" is a catch can... I installed one of those and it has helped. Also told the wife to get on the gas a bit here and there.
this is exactly what turned me away from buying a short block, The parts list doesn't add up to the price. now I'm on the hunt for a decent machine shop near me.
That sucks. I too would love to know who the hack builder is. This customer might be the one to avoid and might be the new loyal customer for a lifetime. That'll be up to you to feel out. A little money (compared to the original $12k) to fix it RIGHT and send him to a real tuner and he'll likely be the happiest guy around. Good luck with it either way. Your business, your decision on how to handle it no doubt. Thanks for the vid!!!
Glad you filmed this and hope you sent a copy direct to the customer of all the F.U.B.A.R build quality. Aluminum bearings? Maybe in a Yugo? Sounds like a high school shop dropout worked on that block.
Somebody with a lack of experience worked on the short block. Nowadays parts don't necessarily bolt right in. A good machinist or experienced engine builder knows the stumbling points. There are drop-in forged rotating assemblies that are good. But too many modifications from the standard causes' problems. Go with a reputable and experienced engine builder. It may cost 50% more, but you'll have quality that will last. Sorry for the loss.
I’m a Ford technician and I’ve always been interested in engines and the process of assembling them but of course as a dealer technician I just replace short/long blocks. How do you get into actual engine building/machining?
Whoever put that engie together was not paying attention and did not know what he was doing. That is crazy that is why you must pay attention when putting a engine together and if things don't fit right don't force it and bolt it on anyway.
Tech tip If you find that you need to sand a bearing to get the proper clearance, just STOP. You missed something. If you don't know how to gauge for oil clearances, just pay a machine shop to go through the engine and let them order the parts. It's cheaper in the long run.
I am currently looking to replace an engine in a 91 Ford. This video makes me want to ask, for a stock engine, what remanufacturing company do you recommend? Have you dealt with so many blocks you have seen good quality from a specific reman company?
I'm not an engine builder but I do understand clearances and stack up. When you showed us the OEM timing gear that wasn't chamfered /relieved could it have been possible after they had installed it they didn't have any crankshaft float and the bearing was removed ,sanded to get .005 to .008" axial float ? Then after it was started and ran it wore another .005 " of the thrust face of the bearing ?
I agree with most, but most of our motors make 700+ natural and most are over 2000 hp at the crank, and we have had better luck with the DSS than any Wiseco, our custom spec DSS pistons are almost $1500 for a set cost, so depends on material and how it is designed,
Yeah we use diamond and wiseco in all performance stuff, we have turbo stuff making well over 2k, I wouldn't use dss in anything, but if I did it would be Na street stuff maybe.
$10K-$12K for a giant aluminium door stop.
Kudos to you Daniel for the informative video and to Andrew for the steady camera work.
Powell Machine for the win. 👍👍
Ty very much!!, we really appreciate you
Coffee Table not a door stop.
@@GoatzombieBubbaI didn't notice.
I will NEVER have a use for this information but I really enjoy listening to someone that obviously knows what they’re talking about explain something that I don’t fully understand.
Thank you, we really appreciate you
Feel bad for this poor customer. Learning can be expensive. Thank you for a very informative video!
My local machine shop, on the last engine I built - would as questions like: how many 10,000ths do you want for bearing clearance. I know EXACTLY what is in the engine and I have the tools to double check their measurements (they were dead on within +/- 1 10,000 of an inch.).
Support your local (performance) machine shop - they are an invaluable resource!
1000%
confuse9: (actual solid advice for how to do it right)
Average fool who thinks they know better: "Aw naw that's just a ripoff, why spend even more money? Me and my buddy know what Harbor Freight is pal, we can get grinders and welders for cheap."
My local machine shop was the opposite. When I showed up with my clean .0001 mics and bore gauge they admitted their tools were old and worn out. .002 taper along a short 4cyl crank. They refunded my money, replaced my crank and I now go elsewhere.
@AToolWithTools what does HF have to do with anything? Lol. You think the wrench they used is the problem with this motor?
@@mybossisdrunk I didn't say wrenches. Grinders and welders. The tools that are valuable in the right hands sure, but are also used by fools who think they know what they're doing and think taking a grinder to a mating surface to "make it better" in their contorted backyard view will solve problems. Or the opposite direction, building up material with a welder but again without knowing what they're doing.
You keep a clean shop, that's how you know quality work is done there. If you can't be bothered to keep your shop clean, what else can't you be bothered to do? Probably many things.
Right on
The million dollar question is who built it? People need to know so they can save their money to pay a reputable builder.
Yes I agree with this I want to know also so I can avoid them like the plague
If Daniel was to mention or hint in any way who built the engine, do you know the angst it would cause him. Law suits everywhere. The truth counts very little as defense in a court room. Find out from the owner but no way should say who it is. Then for goodness sake, do not publish or say in any way in an open forum who that builder is, or they will be chasing you. If you do, only the lawyers make money - out of you. Ask any lawyer who watches this video.
Yeah I feel this would be a bad idea for him man. If there is someone absolutely scamming or conning intentionally, maybe it’s worth calling them out. But if it’s just someone that admittedly isn’t very competent, I feel like it’s just sort of classless going after them with a CZcams channel. Not to mention the legal trouble that would ensue. It would probably divide viewers, be kind of off topic for him, and might cause legal issues. More worth it to educate people, and also hope people do their own research, rather than to lambast every Tom Dick and Harry that sucks at building engines.
I mean they got Yelp for a reason. So what’s the difference in this man telling us all who built this? Legally I guess I just don’t see what could happen? Maybe if he said “do not go to bob the engine builder because he is a moron..” maybe then it’s a bigger problem? But just briefly saying who did it ? Idk I’m sure the person could sue but i don’t think anything would happen. You could post a google review telling everyone the guys a piece of shit. It would stop others from making the same mistake. Now it could make his viewers think of him differently but he has a ton of character and is good guy it wouldn’t effect him for long if at all. I think most of us would appreciate the heads up. Whoever built that already has others they are building and probably fuckingn them up too if no one says anything it won’t stop.
To all,
It's not whether you're right or wrong, it's the amount of money and time you're willing to spend in court.
Many people think "I'll win because I'm in the right." That's probably true in the end. The question becomes how much money and time you're willing to send to get to the end result.
Civil cases can take YEARS to settle and somebody has to pay your lawyer until you get a final judgement, if you ever do.
It's just not worth naming names when you've got other, and better, things to do with your time and money.
Welcome to the real world of running a business.
This man is doing a serious knowledge transfer... Pay attention young gearheads!
Thanks Mr. Powell!
You bet!!
That does look like a DSS piston. The groove in the skirt helps direct oil to where it can do some good when the piston to wall is larger, like you find on a forged performance piston when installed properly. It works well when you use a good Napier ring. I have used many DSS pistons, I know the guys there and they make a quality product. They have an outstanding facility, and even make their own forgings in house, not many piston makers do. I can assure you Tom makes a top quality product.
It's a shame the engine was never right. Unfortunately this happens far too often. Thanks for the video.
Yep I thought the same when I saw that piston... DSS. Good pistons, good company.
I just watched a few of your videos and they are great. I'm a retired mechanic and I like to watch videos to stay up to date on the industry. Never too old to learn new things. Happy Holidays.
Glad you like them!
just came across a few of his videos, wow super knowledgeable - great resource of info - keep up the great work love it ..
Welcome aboard!
That is sad! So many people take no pride in there work and do not care about the consumer. It's a shame.
I'm new to your channel. Great content! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Absolutely!, glad to have you
The scary thing is the person probably did take pride in their work but either have a substance abuse problem or just got in over their head on something they thought they knew they knew what they were doing.
I made a lot of mistakes in the trade I’m in when I was green and thought I was good at what I do at that time. It honestly looks more like ignorance to me but who knows because I’m ignorant to engine building haha.
Seeing the welds on the crankshaft and the tape covering their signture marking, I may have an idea of what company built this.. Friend of mine lost a slug they weld in to balance the crankshaft. It was supposed to have been a 408. Upon tear down we found a stock GM crankshaft. Another friend bought a 416 from the same company that started burning oil and had excessive blow by. A local shop here has done very good work for us over the past couple of years. They may take a bit longer to get the work done, but the money saved has been a blessing!
I'm curious who did your friend motor? It could help prevent me from buying a motor from the wrong company.
this guy is awesome, completely honest, takes total pride in his work, lots of good tips on the right/best way to have you heads etc done...
I appreciate that!
I've read for years about the parts and procedures he shows. So now I can understand what I read. Thanks.
Ty for watching!
Damn ive been learning a lot from watching these. Ive only tinkered with import engines but your videos make you think big time. Super valuable
Tyvm
Im in my 60s. Back in the day we didnt have so many companies making aftermarket parts. Building was more simple, but we could never match todays performance. Great video with a lot of great info. Love learning new stuff.
Right on
Now aftermarket is junk. I watch a couple of mechanics on Yourtube. They continually get new junk parts that don't work out of the box. One guy goes to the local junkyard and get used OEM that actually work.
Hacks that charge top dollar...
Yup
Not just hacks when a platform.performs so well stock it causes guys that didn't grow up building engines ls and lt flooded the market and race seen with shit box builds turbo ls everywhere with no true skills if I was you I would bow out
@FITNESSOVER45he said snout man
Sounds like they could have a career in politics.
Yes, you always line hone when you swap the mains over to studs! Great channel, killer content.
nice to see some one who knows his stuff , very informative & who ever put that motor together , needs to watch - power machine inc - to do the job right .
TYVM!!
I learned about fillet clearance 40 years ago. I had a shop grind a steel crankshaft for a 327. They didn't tell me they ground a larger radius and I put stock bearings in it. Even though I checked all of my clearances and even plastigaged the main journals it got tight when I torqued the main bolts. I ordered new bearings and everything was golden. That was an L79 327/350hp 4-speed in a 1966 Chevy II. Man those were fun little cars!
@@Tshade67 yep, been there
i just found your channel from that valve job video the other day. damn you are a smart guy. its awesome to see this level of teardown and analysis. im a 16 year VW technician. great work bro. i wish we had shops like this out here. i can't send anything out and trust it around here.
A man humbled by his mistakes, is understandable of explaining those by others. Great video new subscriber!
The assembler needed a revised edition of basic engine assembly 101. What a costly mess. Back in the early '80's my brother in law left his 1973 edition of Chilton's which lucky for me was for 1966 through '72 I believe, anyways School was in session. 😊 Thanks for sharing.
Very first engine I built [long ago] bit me in a similar way. I didn't think about timing sprocket clearances - just assumed new part meant "good", as many before me. Looking at dozens of other folks rebuild videos, its probably the biggest assumption going: I don't recall even one that measured that part on the crank before the timing chain install - they all magically "fit"/nobody knew their numbers. In my case it was a sbc, and the register for the crank sprocket was nearly 0.015" larger than spec as ground - a monstrous interference, about 10x anything acceptable. Needing to reach for a shop hammer after heating the sprocket told me... go buy a micrometer. So I did. Then I had sprocket [which was made correctly] resized, as the bottom end was already put together.
As an automotive technician, your videos are highly educational. Thank you for your time sir.
What I learned from today's video made my internet bill worthy for at least 4-5 years, Thank you, Mr. Powell!
You are very welcome
@@powellmachineinc3179 I'm assuming that the engine didn't come with a warranty because it was SUPPOSED to be high performance or the fact that the customer used the oem oil pump gear that cracked instead of upgrading to a aftermarket gear voided the warranty which is why the original engine builder isn't fixing the problem and you are inspection and telling the customer his options concerning the possibility of salvaging this engine ?
@@user-dl6nv9uv9q yes, they wanted us to inspect and determine if it was worth fixing.
It’s hard these days to find a top notch machinist(s) that knows his business including experience. Thanks for sharing and “A Word to the Wise it Should be Sufficient to the Wise, Abort this Engine”.
Yeah. Most of them only know the traditional things like Boring or head rebuilding. I live in a big city with lots of machinists. I recently tried to find a machinist to drill straight shot oil holes into a brand new forged crankshaft, but it had no oil holes whatsoever. Nobody would touch it. They were afraid. I ended up buying some long drill bits at Ebay and drilling the holes myself with a Hand Drill. It taught me how disgusting and overpriced machine shops can be.
I couldn't run from that job fast enough.
I feel bad you though. You're right in the ''best'' place to get dragged in the middle of his fight with the hack that built it.
Definitely
You do just a fantastic job of demonstrating and explaining your jobs. Thanks from an old NHRA National Record Holder from the 1960's.
Well, I'm humbled, we try hard, but sometimes it's hard to tell if I'm getting through! Ty again
Your videos are so informative and educational, thank you.
My pleasure!
New to the ch. Love watching & learning. Never knew about the timing gear. Thank u for ur time & knowledge sir
Thanks for the sub!
This is a classic example of why you have your engine built by a knowledgeable shop!
Absolutely
So many time I have seen radius interference errors on all types of machines. Good catch!
What a reverlation , lovely to watch and understand what your explaining sir , thankyou for you time .
Pretty amazing when you down a 250k mile LS. Rod&mains look new. Still crosshatch in the bores. How do high $ engine builders get it so wrong all the time? Kinda supports the stock bottom end LS guys going 7's in the quarter. Better to leave it alone, than to have a HACK build your engine
And this came from a large well known ls shop
@@powellmachineinc3179 i wonder if they even gapped the rings
Subscribed tonight after seeing this video. The one you did a while back on the Amazon/Ebay PAC-Fu-Yung springs vs. Legit PAC springs was enlightening. Wild how some people have no problem ripping someone off like that.
It's sad!
Great video and have been enjoying your time to teach the weekend car guy.
Ty, glad to have you
Thanks - great video and education! Had "expert" build my 56 dodge hemi and it sounded like a diesel. Only ran it for 5 minutes, but the problem was the pistons were just barely hitting the heads. I tore it down and all the bearings were ruined. Later I found out from hot rodders how stupid I was to give him work.
Unfortunately it happens, hopefully you got it straight
Damn, there was a black smith in our area some time back, the hack that defiled this engine would give him lessons. Words aren't enough.
Lol, no doubt
Well, I just subscribed. I'm a HD fan, but love machine work. It's amazing that those that assemble builds don't know and test for headspace, endplay, etc.. Want to save money check it all! Great channel!
Years ago we had a guy with a 427 Ford steel crank put the 4 speed in from his 289 and the end of the input shaft was longer than an Fe input shaft . It spun the thrust and caught the thrust side of the shaft because the crank was pushed forward . Lots of work repairing that one .
Things haven't changed in 50 years. I used to build small block Chevies in the 70's, (actually everything from lawn mower engines to motorcycle engines, to SBCs and BBCs) and I lost count of how many terrible hammer-mechanic "rebuilds" I had to re-rebuild because of stupid, obvious problems that any goof should have noticed when fitting and assembling an engine. Mis-matched parts, el-cheapo oil pumps, or junkyard oil pumps that should have been scrapped out, piston-to-bore clearances you could measure with a carpenter's tape measure, rings upside-down; I could write a book on that stuff. You are evaluating the engines that you look at the same way I used to - you pay attention to the details AND the overall product, not one or the other. As such, you earned my subscription.
Thanks again for the detailed explanation of these things. I know you are going to laugh when you here my question, but do you ever do any projects with small engines? I'm talking about a Subaru EX 21 for a Mokai kayak. 4 stroke, 1 cylinder engine. I've bought a crankshaft, and now I need to get the rest of the parts - piston, rings, rod, etc. I took it to my machine shop here in Kansas City Missouri, (where I had an engine short block built) and they said it was not anything they worked on. These motors are used to power the Mokai kayaks and only put out 7 or 9 hp. Fun for old guys at speeds of 12 mph, but can go in shallow water. Hunting/fishing/treasure/arrowhead hunting hobbyists.
Absolutely loving these videos. Super informative.
Glad you like them!
Wow, you have so much experience in your job. That was so detailed that if you went into more detail this video would be over an hour long. I remember rebuilding stock non-performance engines as a kid and never paid any attention to the original vs the OEM after-market stuff.
I don’t need a built LS, but if I ever do, I would go straight to these guys!
Tyvm!!
Man....I think I'm gonna have you start building my engines... love your knowledge and experience...😊😊
Definitely, reach to us at the website
Powellmachineinc.com
Just last week i took apart a Ducati with a rod bearing spun, everything ok except one of the rod cap alignment pins was missing a half so it was alighned crooked when the rod was tightened. Meassured the crank, only needs a polish, oil pump perfect, even the rod is fixable at the machine shop. Everything else seems to be made of unobabtanium weird how the crank survived.
Amazing!, could have been a disaster
I loved your, "Yeeeeepp..." looking at the piston! My oldest uncle used to work truck motors and that popped out all the time. Customers would claim this n that so he'd putll out the part and show them with a long "Yeeeepp..."
Right on
A lot of really useful tips here. Thank you for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Yep and gen 5 factory rods have no chamfer at all so befor you throw stuff together you gotta check what crank ya got. Thanks for pointing that out to people!!
Right on
Be curious to see the cylinder bore diameter, the piston diameter and ring gap.
This company needs to be exposed to help others avoid this extremely costly mistake. Hopefully the owner can recover the cost in court.
Some times you need to know when to walk away from a job. Looks like the thrust bearing was cut for more clearance due to the oil pump and gear issue. Pete at Pete's machine use to warranty his machine shop work and his rebuilt engines until he had to rebuild this one engine three times. Come to find out someone stopped by the shop and told Pete that he had seem the fellow at the drag strip when he blew the engine up racing. After that info Pete said when he rebuilds an engine he will not give anyone a guarantee that it will even start little say run. As is no warranty - is what you get when the machine work is done. Good info thanks.
I could listen to him all day.
You have a lot of patience, more than I do.
Lol, I'm running out
Wow. Nice show. Love your expertise
Ol' Billy 3 teeth puts together a great motor. I save $300 dollars labor on every unit. And with that pallet of out of spec bearings, we should make our sales target this month.
I just went to school, thank you for high quality content subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
Thanks for the info. Doesn't matter how much you spend, those companies will still cut corners
I always check the press on those stock gears and hone them if needed. Some of them can be excessive in my opinion. We had somebody split one just like that installing oe gear on oe crank due to too much press.
Good catch on the crankshaft timing sprocket chamfer.
Wow brother, they got taken bad. I am building a Ls3. I had seen those E-Bay engines for 8 or 10 grand and I just couldn't trust it. I'm sure there are some really good ones out there but with my luck, that's what I would have gotten. I feel bad for your customer. Wow. Thank you for this episode. And the content.
Thanks for watching, this engine came from a large well known ls shop...
That makes it even worse.
@@powellmachineinc3179then they should have no problem reimbursing the owner for all cost.
I have studed caps before and checked eqch one and the allign bore as a hole and was well within spec. That is rare, so unless your going to do a lot of checking i would align bore almost everything
Aluminum blocks move, all bores may measure good but not all be in line, so we always dust a line hone through to verify, it's just 1 more box to check.
I remember reading Smoky Yunicks builders guide for the small block Chevy years ago and even back then they would use a pocket knife and relieve the Clevite 77 main bearings and rod bearings for this radius in the corner also pistons must be put on the rods with the relief pointing towards the radiused side of the crankshafts rod journal or else the person who is only looking at the arrow on the piston crown might not catch this mistake if they are not veteran engine assemblers this is especially important if you are using pressed in pins that the person who installs the pistons onto the rods understands that they are directional same goes for using full floating pistons but they can be reversed if the assembler catches an error a lot easier without special equipment like a rod oven I was also taught to make sure you can easily hand turn the crank after you get the mains installed before you proceed to install the rod bearings that way if you feel a clearance issue you don't have so far to back up to find what is wrong that oil pump drive-timing gear problem is a real gotcha though I can see how it would be easy to make that mistake if you were in a rush and haven't seen that problem before ahead of time.It is not a good idea to rotate the crankshaft until the bearings have been torqued though because without being torqued the bearings are not being mated to the journals or crushed into being round I see a lot of guys lay a well oiled crankshaft into only one half of the bearings and then spin it and granted it probably doesn't do much since everything is well lubricated and it is only being turned by hand but that bearing still isn't really ready for the crankshaft to be rotated until after it has been torqued up and when I see people doing this it lets me know they don't understand how these bearings work. There is a lot to building a proper engine even just in the assembly phase it needs to be done methodically with all the right pre lube and steps or else you wind up with junk like this .
If you hold your tongue just right you can buff that cylinder out, use the scratch be gone hone and a little engine rebuild in a can. All the Best, Howard
Absolutely 💯
You can have the same problem with the fillet under the head of a screw if the washer ID is too small or doesn't have a chamfer. A crack can start under the head, leading to fatigue failure.
Good diagnosis. Good explanation. Thats what you expect from teenagers without experience or understanding of how things work
Good job on covering the problem.
This man's knowledge is priceless
I would absolutely love to build a motor with my own parts choice. But there's not much room for error and you can get a nice blueprint for less. Building your own there's a lot of tolerances to measure I'd hate to spend 10 grand and find out I slipped up.
This man knows his stuff.
Hello guys good informative video, I hate working behind & straighten out others crap. When you find a g machine shop don't worry about the time. Stay with them dam it or his next video will be your eng. Keep up the great videos fella.
Thank you!!
I'm not a big fan of Direct Injection... I remember the first time I did an oil change on one of my vehicles that has Direct Injection. I freaked out at first because the oil was thin and all I could smell was gasoline. Supposed "fix" is a catch can... I installed one of those and it has helped. Also told the wife to get on the gas a bit here and there.
Awesome lesson.....
Wow, what an eye opener. Sad you can pay that much and it’s done all wrong
Unfortunately
this is exactly what turned me away from buying a short block, The parts list doesn't add up to the price. now I'm on the hunt for a decent machine shop near me.
Yup
That sucks. I too would love to know who the hack builder is. This customer might be the one to avoid and might be the new loyal customer for a lifetime. That'll be up to you to feel out. A little money (compared to the original $12k) to fix it RIGHT and send him to a real tuner and he'll likely be the happiest guy around.
Good luck with it either way. Your business, your decision on how to handle it no doubt.
Thanks for the vid!!!
It was a very large "ls shop" that's all over the internet...
Glad you filmed this and hope you sent a copy direct to the customer of all the F.U.B.A.R build quality. Aluminum bearings? Maybe in a Yugo? Sounds like a high school shop dropout worked on that block.
Definitely
Great video. Thank you for sharing
Somebody with a lack of experience worked on the short block. Nowadays parts don't necessarily bolt right in. A good machinist or experienced engine builder knows the stumbling points. There are drop-in forged rotating assemblies that are good. But too many modifications from the standard causes' problems. Go with a reputable and experienced engine builder. It may cost 50% more, but you'll have quality that will last. Sorry for the loss.
Would love to see the final product before you send it out the door!!!
Never seen the radius deal on the timing gear deal on LS setups. Everyone said when i asked around they run stock timing set on a 416 ls3
Yeah, people just don't know
Thank You, I learned a LOT from this video.
I’m a Ford technician and I’ve always been interested in engines and the process of assembling them but of course as a dealer technician I just replace short/long blocks. How do you get into actual engine building/machining?
Whoever put that engie together was not paying attention and did not know what he was doing. That is crazy that is why you must pay attention when putting a engine together and if things don't fit right don't force it and bolt it on anyway.
Yep
Tech tip If you find that you need to sand a bearing to get the proper clearance, just STOP. You missed something. If you don't know how to gauge for oil clearances, just pay a machine shop to go through the engine and let them order the parts. It's cheaper in the long run.
Love the content, keep it coming.
Thanks, will do!
I am currently looking to replace an engine in a 91 Ford. This video makes me want to ask, for a stock engine, what remanufacturing company do you recommend? Have you dealt with so many blocks you have seen good quality from a specific reman company?
I could have watched more. I was ready for piston bore concentricity.
We decided to decline this job.
I'm not an engine builder but I do understand clearances and stack up. When you showed us the OEM timing gear that wasn't chamfered /relieved could it have been possible after they had installed it they didn't have any crankshaft float and the bearing was removed ,sanded to get .005 to .008" axial float ? Then after it was started and ran it wore another .005 " of the thrust face of the bearing ?
No, engine builder did bearing/mechanic installed timing
That's absolutely criminal.
Yup
Dude was probably sanding the thrust because it had no end play due to running stock wide bearings and no clearance for the filets.
The thrust isn't affected by std vs race bearings from my experience anyway.
Useful information , great content
We need to know who built this door stop.
I've got to ask, have you put a little grease in the head of your engine stand yet?
What's the part number to that beveled timing gear?
I agree with most, but most of our motors make 700+ natural and most are over 2000 hp at the crank, and we have had better luck with the DSS than any Wiseco, our custom spec DSS pistons are almost $1500 for a set cost, so depends on material and how it is designed,
Yeah we use diamond and wiseco in all performance stuff, we have turbo stuff making well over 2k, I wouldn't use dss in anything, but if I did it would be Na street stuff maybe.
Great information!!!
Jeez what a mess. Great sleuthing, Daniel.
Ty