Thank you .! It’s been 30yrs I have been playing with race cars and 15+yrs as a profession ., I am learning every day it’s a never ending learning process this field !
As a Ford guy I've seen where heads are massaged on the dowel and head bolt holes to shift the heads on the deck slightly, and unshroud the intake valves. Usually involves reworking the combustion chambers a little too to unshroud the intake valve, and sometimes installing larger intake valves. This involves as consequence having to massage the intake as well for good port alignment. When racing every edge matters.... For street use it's too much work imo. Great video. Thanks. Never knew what the Chevy/GM guys did because of the flip flopping valve arrangement. I knew the LS guys did like Ford guys, but not the old Chebys.
Retired circle track (especially NASCAR) engines make excellent high horsepower engines for weekend drag racers. The shortblocks are built with very good pieces, the heads usually 'massaged' well, and the intake matched to the heads. All this for a fraction of the cost of building it, and usually 2 horsepower per cubic inch!
@@georges8secpony Just the truth. I was in the business, and most of my work outside standard re-manufacturing was race engines, most of that, circle track. Didn't take long to figure out, almost all the best parts for street racers that still drive there and back - camshaft profiles included - are circle track stuff. By far the best until you want to go past 850 - 900hp, even then the hard parts are much the same.
@@Motor-City-Mike I would love to sit and have a coffee with you and talk about engines !!! I’m sure you have a lot of knowledge after all those years ., much respect 🫡 this is a very hard field and it’s even harder when you try your best to deliver the best you can !
@@georges8secpony You have to love what you do - finding a new source to make power in engines that have their roots in functionality over a century ago takes serious thought(s) There's been all that time, and all those people working at it before now - like I was saying, new or different doesn't come easy.
I have a retired Dart Little M that competed as a 368ci in a National Mod hydroplane. It has been to 140+ MPH on water for a 5 mile race. Punched out to 4.125 and I kept the Callies 3.48 crank & 6" rods to be a 372. With EFI, massaged 'Corvette' exhaust manifolds, and a Comp 4-pattern cam, it is making an estimated 475hp based on EFI logging data. Spins to 7000 RPM and lives in a Tri-five with a Muncie 4-speed. Classic SBC combo with a traditional SBC hot-rod look under the hood. A great 'retirement' for a race motor, which is bullet-proof for street use!
CNC machining centers have been off-set boring for 30 years. I generally chamber the cylinder using the head gasketvas a template instead of off-set boring, but you most certainly can. Bigger bores or headscwithvthe intake valve moved off the wall perform better for sure.
Interesting. It must take a special head gasket. The chambers on the heads were probably massaged to match. At one time the trend was to use tiny 0.787” diameter wrist pins that were very short. They typically used steel on steel with coated wrist pins. There are plenty of other crazy things you run across with NASCAR engines. The work done on the oiling systems is crazy also.
Thanks for watching ! Imagine 2024 how advanced all is ., this was a really old engine … still has some interesting things for people that have never seen one
On one of the close-ups of between the bores, you can see stains from the previous head gasket that shows the steamholes from a 400 ci head gasket.which ,like a bow-tie block had siamese bores but little holes drilled as close to the (hot spot) as possible. Cheaper gasket to run ,but perhaps dangerous adding a void so close to the edge.
I love building engines to class specs and maximizing everything to the tiniest detail. Few people understand the significance of long rods(decreased side loading, longer dwell time around TDC and less weight on the reciprocating mass allow MUCH MORE POWER) FWIW not much has changed in NASCAR engines since the early 1990's OTHER than rod weight, piston weight, and valve springs are 10x better. They make 200 more HP and the rods weight 200 grams less EACH! In the early 1990's I was an apprentice 3 days a week to the guy who built GAS RHONDA's Cammers in the 1960's
I always wanted to get a 400 block and put a 327 crank in it with .040 over for a 354 or thereabouts. With the right heads and cam that could be a 7000rpm rev machine. I don;t know if you are familiar with his channel, he suggested offsetting the head gasket and grinding the bowls on the intake side out more so you could unshround the valves extra and run a slightly bigger one. I know the Formula 5000 and V8 Supercar guys get special rough broached blocks from GM that will bore to 3.960 so they can stay right under the 5000cc limit too..
The oem gm 400 blocks are kinda week .. maybe keeping it at max 4.155 bore and half fill the block could make it more rigid ..! It’s all in the Cyl heads and camshaft., you can turn it 8k plus .. with a 4.155 bore you don’t really need to offset anything … 352.5ci with a 2.08 valve can easily turn 7500-8k with proper camshaft Will be a screamer … I build a 343ci sbf and did 575hp on pump gas and it peak Hp at 7600
I have noticed the trend lately of everyone wanting to paint their lifter valley with Glyptal "because the oil returns better", which is of course, BS. Then I remember when Nascar used "stock" engine blocks, and nobody painted the inside. And if there ever was a motor that could use "better drain back", it's a round track engine.
True quit using it also. I like oil to puddle up around the lifters and valve springs when possible Extra drainback isnt needed it will find its way to the pan
ive seen guys freshen using sleeves they would precision fit each piston to sleeves then open the block for sleeves and pop the whole thing in as a set .
I have never seen that in an iron block … as the sleeve needs to be pressed in and then top of the sleeve decked …. Maybe some diesel engines I have seen kinda what your saying …
@@georges8secponywet liner diesel engines are that way. John Deere engines have piston and liner kits ready to go right out of the box, change o rings and slam them home.
Back in the late 80s a friend of ours was a drag racer in South Florida. He did 3 passes with a brand new Bowtie block. He pulled it out and gave it to my brother for free. He said " here, you can have it. I can't use it anymore". It still had the cross hatching in it.
seen it happen more than once especially with claimer motors i used to hand port for a lot of guys had quite a few bowtie heads given to me along with some pontiac heads made to run on bowtie blocks . i remember using oldsmobile 6 inch rods back in the 80s before they caught on to the 6 inch rod. a 400 030 over with those olds rods and a reworked nodular 6:28 steel 400 crank would wind right up !
Offset the bore to the crank centerline so it has more mechanical leverage. In other words bore the passenger side higher on the deck and the drivers side lower on the deck
Maybe a dumb question. I see clearly what you are saying about the offset boring and enshrouding the intake valves. My question is, doesn't that move the rod journals slightly on the crank journals and cause a bind? Or do you also have to have a custom crank that compensates for this?
Bowtie blocks could be used with the old Pontiac heads pre sb2. You could order both out of the chevy perf catalog, even race heads with no ports finish machining etc yes nascar guys used them. We would deck the heck outta blocks on cars that ran at saugus speedway back then. Wouldnt be a claimer thats for sure. lol
Hemis have them even farther from the bore, basically so far from the bore that the bore has zero effect on flow. The new ones run a 2.14 intake valve on just a 4.09 bore and it's not shrouded by the bore, it opens away from the bore for even more flow. They flow 300 cfm right around .400 valve lift.
I have a stock bore 305 that came out of my Monte Carlo. I was a low milage engine and I've been thinking about building it because of the bad reputation it has. I wonder if boring the cylinders off center would allow me to be able to put 350 heads on. I'm also looking to adapt a modern EFI roots blower like a Whipple or Maguson supercharger. I think a fully forged rotating assembly with a good flowing set of 350 heads and supercharger would hurt a lot of feelings with that 305.
@@georges8secpony I have a 350 4 bolt standard bore and a gen6 454 standard bore. I want the challenge of taking the much hated 305 and making into something.
Great question ! The bore off center isn’t extreme so nothing needs to be done … just the fact you thought about asking tells me you have great understanding of how things work 👍
@georges8secpony Thank you for the compliment. I would never consider myself an "engine builder". I am a industrial mechanic by trade and I restore vehicles. I just figured (apparently wrongly) .030 offset in bore space either put too much wear on the rod journal radius or too much space between rod caps. I would've made sense in my little brain that the crank would've had a specific part#.
Dude so much info Nascar secrets amaze me However you missed one The 6in rod... Was the answer to what became The perfect piston speed Ahh i mean ... Lost it lol
@@georges8secpony It was back in the day just some good ole boys scraping together what they could trying to keep up to the fastest guy at our track. Little did we know he’d be a living legend now sure you herd of Billy Moyer late model dirt driver.
I doubt if that's a NASCAR engine they were balanced to the hilt and had cooling hoses in the side of the block I bought a crank one time at a 28 slugs of Mallory in it
You have to use a machine shop that knows what they are doing and are familiar with these types of builds … if you have to explain to them this then more than likely is not the right place to have your block machined for this type of a build …
Where did u get old nascar engine from? Did I miss something, that’s a newer roller cam accepting bow tie block, definitely not a old nascar block, and newer nascar blocks where sb2.2 engines. Which now they have even newer styles, but this is definitely just a regular circle track engine someone built if it had cast dart heads. If the guy paid 30 grand for that back in the 90s he was just wasting money, I wish I could have sold him engines if he’s paying that kind of money. Looks like around 8 grand at todays money.
I’m just saying what I was told … this is an older circle track engine not sure what sanction or class ., btw he also has 2 sb2.2 engines at his shop among with 2 cars that he used to race in nascar … maybe this engine was something he would run here in Canada I’m not sure to be honest .! Thanks for posting much appreciated
![DELTA PLC [ VERTICAL PLASTIC INJECTION MACHINE ] PROGRAMMING](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZrrbktxVtGI/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for sharing some of your tech tips, we need guys like you to hand down the info so auto racing stays alive and well!!!!
Right on thanks for watching !
Nice engine George.
It always amazes me the lengths people went to to make power.
Thanks for sharing.
Have a great day. 👍
Thank you .! It’s been 30yrs I have been playing with race cars and 15+yrs as a profession ., I am learning every day it’s a never ending learning process this field !
As a Ford guy I've seen where heads are massaged on the dowel and head bolt holes to shift the heads on the deck slightly, and unshroud the intake valves.
Usually involves reworking the combustion chambers a little too to unshroud the intake valve, and sometimes installing larger intake valves.
This involves as consequence having to massage the intake as well for good port alignment.
When racing every edge matters.... For street use it's too much work imo. Great video. Thanks. Never knew what the Chevy/GM guys did because of the flip flopping valve arrangement. I knew the LS guys did like Ford guys, but not the old Chebys.
Saw that video....
Thanks for watching 👍
Retired circle track (especially NASCAR) engines make excellent high horsepower engines for weekend drag racers. The shortblocks are built with very good pieces, the heads usually 'massaged' well, and the intake matched to the heads.
All this for a fraction of the cost of building it, and usually 2 horsepower per cubic inch!
Very true .! Right on
@@georges8secpony
Just the truth. I was in the business, and most of my work outside standard re-manufacturing was race engines, most of that, circle track.
Didn't take long to figure out, almost all the best parts for street racers that still drive there and back - camshaft profiles included -
are circle track stuff. By far the best until you want to go past 850 - 900hp, even then the hard parts are much the same.
@@Motor-City-Mike I would love to sit and have a coffee with you and talk about engines !!! I’m sure you have a lot of knowledge after all those years ., much respect 🫡 this is a very hard field and it’s even harder when you try your best to deliver the best you can !
@@georges8secpony
You have to love what you do - finding a new source to make power in engines that have their roots in functionality over a century ago takes serious thought(s)
There's been all that time, and all those people working at it before now - like I was saying, new or different doesn't come easy.
I have a retired Dart Little M that competed as a 368ci in a National Mod hydroplane. It has been to 140+ MPH on water for a 5 mile race. Punched out to 4.125 and I kept the Callies 3.48 crank & 6" rods to be a 372. With EFI, massaged 'Corvette' exhaust manifolds, and a Comp 4-pattern cam, it is making an estimated 475hp based on EFI logging data. Spins to 7000 RPM and lives in a Tri-five with a Muncie 4-speed. Classic SBC combo with a traditional SBC hot-rod look under the hood. A great 'retirement' for a race motor, which is bullet-proof for street use!
CNC machining centers have been off-set boring for 30 years. I generally chamber the cylinder using the head gasketvas a template instead of off-set boring, but you most certainly can. Bigger bores or headscwithvthe intake valve moved off the wall perform better for sure.
Great input !
Interesting. It must take a special head gasket. The chambers on the heads were probably massaged to match. At one time the trend was to use tiny 0.787” diameter wrist pins that were very short. They typically used steel on steel with coated wrist pins. There are plenty of other crazy things you run across with NASCAR engines. The work done on the oiling systems is crazy also.
Thanks for watching ! Imagine 2024 how advanced all is ., this was a really old engine … still has some interesting things for people that have never seen one
On one of the close-ups of between the bores, you can see stains from the previous head gasket that shows the steamholes from a 400 ci head gasket.which ,like a bow-tie block had siamese bores but little holes drilled as close to the (hot spot) as possible. Cheaper gasket to run ,but perhaps dangerous adding a void so close to the edge.
Another advantage with cylinder offset is the space between cylinders where there are two exhaust valves next to each other is increased.
Yup did not think about that !!! Great point there
It’s always great to listen to other people’s thinking 🤔..! We always learn something .! Thanks for posting
Exactly!
This is why the small block 400 has steam hole between the cylinder for cooling. It's prone to cross firing across the middle two siamese cylinders.
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
Thanks for supporting and watching my videos much appreciated
Thank you for sharing this valuable information!
Glad it was helpful!
My pleasure!
Wow. I learned a lot. Thank you
You are very welcome 🙏
I love building engines to class specs and maximizing everything to the tiniest detail.
Few people understand the significance of long rods(decreased side loading, longer dwell time around TDC and less weight on the reciprocating mass allow MUCH MORE POWER)
FWIW not much has changed in NASCAR engines since the early 1990's OTHER than rod weight, piston weight, and valve springs are 10x better.
They make 200 more HP and the rods weight 200 grams less EACH!
In the early 1990's I was an apprentice 3 days a week to the guy who built GAS RHONDA's Cammers in the 1960's
Yes technology has advanced big time but the basics remain the same ! Thanks for watching
It also helps with keeping head gaskets in it too, them nitrous guys know about that.
Next level man….. 😱😱
The exrtra material between the exhaust valves in the center is a good thing ,its gotta be a hot point on the SBC
Very true !
Sure would like to see one of the pistons out to see what they look like.. got to be short with that much off the deck and a 6”rod.👍🏻
Merci mon ami ,tu viens de m apprendre quelque 💪 au plaisir de se voir à Napierville après les quelques flocons 😂
Salut merci ! Subscribe si t’est pas encore enscrit !
I always wanted to get a 400 block and put a 327 crank in it with .040 over for a 354 or thereabouts. With the right heads and cam that could be a 7000rpm rev machine.
I don;t know if you are familiar with his channel, he suggested offsetting the head gasket and grinding the bowls on the intake side out more so you could unshround the valves extra and run a slightly bigger one. I know the Formula 5000 and V8 Supercar guys get special rough broached blocks from GM that will bore to 3.960 so they can stay right under the 5000cc limit too..
The oem gm 400 blocks are kinda week .. maybe keeping it at max 4.155 bore and half fill the block could make it more rigid ..! It’s all in the Cyl heads and camshaft., you can turn it 8k plus .. with a 4.155 bore you don’t really need to offset anything … 352.5ci with a 2.08 valve can easily turn 7500-8k with proper camshaft
Will be a screamer … I build a 343ci sbf and did 575hp on pump gas and it peak Hp at 7600
I have noticed the trend lately of everyone wanting to paint their lifter valley with Glyptal "because the oil returns better", which is of course, BS.
Then I remember when Nascar used "stock" engine blocks, and nobody painted the inside. And if there ever was a motor that could use "better drain back", it's a round track engine.
True quit using it also. I like oil to puddle up around the lifters and valve springs when possible
Extra drainback isnt needed it will find its way to the pan
ive seen guys freshen using sleeves they would precision fit each piston to sleeves then open the block for sleeves and pop the whole thing in as a set .
I have never seen that in an iron block … as the sleeve needs to be pressed in and then top of the sleeve decked …. Maybe some diesel engines I have seen kinda what your saying …
@@georges8secponywet liner diesel engines are that way. John Deere engines have piston and liner kits ready to go right out of the box, change o rings and slam them home.
Back in the late 80s a friend of ours was a drag racer in South Florida. He did 3 passes with a brand new Bowtie block. He pulled it out and gave it to my brother for free. He said " here, you can have it. I can't use it anymore". It still had the cross hatching in it.
Wow many circle track guys would love to buy that block …!
seen it happen more than once especially with claimer motors i used to hand port for a lot of guys had quite a few bowtie heads given to me along with some pontiac heads made to run on bowtie blocks . i remember using oldsmobile 6 inch rods back in the 80s before they caught on to the 6 inch rod. a 400 030 over with those olds rods and a reworked nodular 6:28 steel 400 crank would wind right up !
Very nice!!!!
Moving the bores must be a more efficient method than notching the block like was done on smaller bore big block Chevy s. Very interesting.
100% .!
Offset the bore to the crank centerline so it has more mechanical leverage. In other words bore the passenger side higher on the deck and the drivers side lower on the deck
Crazy knowledge
I’m glad you’re enjoying it ! Thanks 🙏
Man that’s nice
Thank you sir !
THEY TOLD ME THROW MY TIMING LIGHT IN THE BUSHES
I THOUGHT THEY WERE CRAZY
😎
🤙
Maybe a dumb question. I see clearly what you are saying about the offset boring and enshrouding the intake valves. My question is, doesn't that move the rod journals slightly on the crank journals and cause a bind? Or do you also have to have a custom crank that compensates for this?
It’s not that much difference to affect that part …. Thx for watching
Bowtie blocks could be used with the old Pontiac heads pre sb2. You could order both out of the chevy perf catalog, even race heads with no ports finish machining etc yes nascar guys used them.
We would deck the heck outta blocks on cars that ran at saugus speedway back then. Wouldnt be a claimer thats for sure. lol
Yup ., even this one is decked .125”
Sbf got it easy, you can just move the head, by offsetting the dowels.
BB Chevy and Ford Cleveland have angled valves to keep intake valves unshrouded. It seems to matter for flow.
Forgot to add ( SB ) Ford Cleveland.
It’s called canted valves, yes the farther they open the more unshrouded they become.
Hemis have them even farther from the bore, basically so far from the bore that the bore has zero effect on flow. The new ones run a 2.14 intake valve on just a 4.09 bore and it's not shrouded by the bore, it opens away from the bore for even more flow. They flow 300 cfm right around .400 valve lift.
@@davidphillips3953 its amazing how much flow they are getting nowadays
cool deal ... old school !
I have a stock bore 305 that came out of my Monte Carlo. I was a low milage engine and I've been thinking about building it because of the bad reputation it has. I wonder if boring the cylinders off center would allow me to be able to put 350 heads on. I'm also looking to adapt a modern EFI roots blower like a Whipple or Maguson supercharger. I think a fully forged rotating assembly with a good flowing set of 350 heads and supercharger would hurt a lot of feelings with that 305.
Just build a 350 block it’s not expensive to find one … 45ci more same money more power
@@georges8secpony I have a 350 4 bolt standard bore and a gen6 454 standard bore. I want the challenge of taking the much hated 305 and making into something.
I wondering what has to be done on the cranks rod journals to make this work. Is it a specific part# or is it a crank that has to be machined?
Great question ! The bore off center isn’t extreme so nothing needs to be done … just the fact you thought about asking tells me you have great understanding of how things work 👍
@georges8secpony Thank you for the compliment. I would never consider myself an "engine builder". I am a industrial mechanic by trade and I restore vehicles. I just figured (apparently wrongly) .030 offset in bore space either put too much wear on the rod journal radius or too much space between rod caps. I would've made sense in my little brain that the crank would've had a specific part#.
@@inthegarage342 not much to make a substantial difference… like I said you process of thinking shows you know how things work ! Good job 👍
I believe the slight offset
Can be taken up by the custom pistons,
offset pin... I think
@mccoulombe941 True there is side to side movement in the pin
Dude so much info
Nascar secrets amaze me
However you missed one
The 6in rod... Was the answer to what became
The perfect piston speed
Ahh i mean ... Lost it lol
Thanks lol 😂
Back in the 90s my dad told me a crankshaft for engine he built cost 15k.. kinda crazy cost of parts sometimes.
Wow that’s huge money …
@@georges8secpony yeah I thought so too. For a 421 sbc if I remember correctly said weight was like 34 lbs
@@Thumper68 your dad was hardcore racer 👍
@@georges8secpony It was back in the day just some good ole boys scraping together what they could trying to keep up to the fastest guy at our track. Little did we know he’d be a living legend now sure you herd of Billy Moyer late model dirt driver.
@@Thumper68 I am not very familiar with dirt or oval track racing but that name rings a bell 🛎️..! Is that your dad ???
LS can be offset like Ford.
Yup same concept
Moving the bore like that how does it effect the rod to crank alignment .
Not enough to create and issue .! Thanks for watching
That's hard to believe the rod bearing and wrist pin doesn't wear.
Am trying to build a motor too run in the 5s in 1/8 In a s10 truck
A 650hp sbc with some nitrous will get you there ! Or a 550hp sbc with more nitrous lol
Them tubes are to keep oil from draining back on the crankshaft
Great point!
@@georges8secpony ARe you runing cooling lines from the middle of the head where the 2 exh valves are?
WHere did you run it too if you did .
@@gordocarbo not on this application ., usually to the side of the water pump one per side
I doubt if that's a NASCAR engine they were balanced to the hilt and had cooling hoses in the side of the block I bought a crank one time at a 28 slugs of Mallory in it
More likely a Canadian series circle track … or a very old nascar deal
THE 426 HEMI WAS THE GREATEST NASCAR ENGINE ###
Way a head if it’s time … thus why it got banned ….
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
🔥👊🔥🏍🔨⚠️⚙️
Thanks for watching!!!
How would a guy do this, what gaskets are you using? How would a guy explain this to a machinist if I wanted to do this?
You have to use a machine shop that knows what they are doing and are familiar with these types of builds … if you have to explain to them this then more than likely is not the right place to have your block machined for this type of a build …
@@georges8secpony my guy is good, but you didn't answer what head gasket you can use with this set up
@@whereswadlow44 I have already answered in the comments … 4.200” bore will fit with room to spare
Bad ass sbc motor in front of you people
Then WTF are you using for head gaskets??
4.200 bore gaskets …
NHRA SS tricks
Yup 👍
Where did u get old nascar engine from? Did I miss something, that’s a newer roller cam accepting bow tie block, definitely not a old nascar block, and newer nascar blocks where sb2.2 engines. Which now they have even newer styles, but this is definitely just a regular circle track engine someone built if it had cast dart heads. If the guy paid 30 grand for that back in the 90s he was just wasting money, I wish I could have sold him engines if he’s paying that kind of money. Looks like around 8 grand at todays money.
I’m just saying what I was told … this is an older circle track engine not sure what sanction or class ., btw he also has 2 sb2.2 engines at his shop among with 2 cars that he used to race in nascar … maybe this engine was something he would run here in Canada I’m not sure to be honest .! Thanks for posting much appreciated
Take that camera off your head so folks don't need Dramamine to watch this.
Good point ! Thanks will do on the next one