Danny I love the upgrade but as a Klipsch fan I love their house sound Never the fatiguing sound other here and as an older man I believe the Klipsch get better as my hearing gets worse
You'd think, however Klipsch has been redesigning that whole series to correct the phase issues that I have been pointing out and correcting with the upgrades. So they appear to be acknowledging and correcting that problem.
I have been through kef,wharefdale,b&w…next in line will be tekton….so far the klipsch rf711 are much better to my ears..sorry if some don’t agree but that’s my opinion👍
@@wendellgayheart9228 There are many different things that contributes to how a speaker sounds to different people. I know for myself the times I have listened to them at best Buy I could not get to like them.
True …just wish people would move on and leave klipsch and other brands they don’t like out of their vocabulary…a beautiful blonde might look like dog crap to one dude but another might find her to be the love of a lifetime…same goes for everything in this world..don’t have to put down what some people like to make one’s self look mighty smh
Just bought Dynaudio BM5 MkIII. Hopefully Mk III means they fixed all the problems from previous Mk's and you would give them a thumbs up. Nice to watch a pro like that. Thanks.
You bet your Texan ass Danny the brands have their people paying attention to your content! Dont doubt that even a little! Your contributions over the past few years have definitely helped put the "game" in check!
I didn’t want a flat response speaker. That’s why I bought Klipsch. I mean, I hope Danny sells a couple hundred upgrade kits, but if I wanted flat frequency response, etc., I would have bought Ascend Acoustics or some similar brand… So $370 for the kit , 500+ for the speakers, put that together and you’ve got almost $900 budget. Just sayin’
Firstly, being off phase is the real issue, it has nothing with being "neutral". Being off phase a serious problem that should not be in ANY speaker. Secondly, being neutral is nearly impossible; there are thousands of ways how to approach the ideal state of speaker's response across all frequencies, and there, no two speakers are the same.
Cool thing to do for sure but at $369 just for this upgrade essentially doubles the price of the speakers depending on if you can get them more on sale. With this upgrade plus to speaker cost getting into the $800 to $1000 range there are better speaker options available that sound better without having to screw around with an upgrade. Still neat upgrade idea I just can't see the value in it other than just a little DoIt yourself project. We've all got enough of those sadly...
Can't wait to hear the before and after. Wait what am I saying they are still Klipsch speakers... Let me rephrase that. Can't wait to hear the difference between them.
I believe the reason for the steel nuts on the inside of the binding posts is proof of the nature of budget speaker design: they're less prone to stripping than softer brass is. When you're a Chinese factory pumping out thousands of speakers for multiple companies and suffice on volume, you use tricks like that to get build quality uniform when your line workers are pumping them out fast. Even if it comes to a lesser result in the end.
@@xarifa777 where did I say that Chinese labor wasn't adequate? I did not. What I did say was that when you're a factory producing something in large quantities you need to take into account manufacturing efficiencies. Brass on brass will strip. Steel on brass likely will not.
This is what happens when the bean counters make the design decisions. Same is true with most mass produced speakers. I love that you're exposing their "cheese" for what is. Keep up the great work Danny!
TBH, Klipsch is not exactly high-end, bean counters bee damned. A decent 5.1 system runs $2k. The REAL culprits are the mid and ultra-high-end speakers Danny reviews, running $2k per pair and up.
@@wwlittlejOfficial Exactly, Klipsch has always been about great bang for your buck, they give a lot of high end speakers a run for their money, in addition to creating a signature sound that some people love (albeit some people loathe) but I do appreciate their excellent imaging and dynamics, all that being said, you can't expect ultra high end parts, unless you're willing to accept high end prices.
@@johnnycorona8851 one would expect competent engineering even without premium parts. Plenty of companies achieving this , even at the entry level point
Hi, thanks a lot for your explanations, always on the top. I have RP160M's which to my knowledge are predecessors of the RP600. Does it mean they are even worse than the mk1, or was the mk1's a simplified version of my 160's ? How could I improve my older version?
Would love to see a side by side of the old version with your upgrades and the new one with your upgrades. I'm sure I can just watch the old video and compare myself, just thought it would be interesting
main problem with Klipsch speakers is the tweeter is "hot" relative to the woofer. bi-amping does help a little, i've bi-amped my rp-600m ii and rp-6000f ii and they both respond well to bi-amping, much better bass authority for better balanced sound, but ideally you shouldn't need to bi-amp for good sound.
Last fall/Christmas time of year I could have picked up a pair of the 600 orginals for right at 300ish. Would u recommend purchasing the orginals over the 2nd gen. I guess what I'm wondering does the 1st gen with the upgrade sound as good as the 2nd gen upgraded? If a difference, how big? Night and day or just a click or two? What would u do?
Danny, I am selling my old RP-600M's and getting into the Elac Unify 2.0, which seems to be loved by many. I would have done the mod if I was keeping the RP-600s. I saw you were pretty pleased with the lower speed Elac Debuts, and wonder if you have given the Unify UB52? Seems like a special speaker for the money. Thoughts?
We had someone send in the UB52's. They were loaded with super cheap budget level parts (cheesy) and there was no room left in the box for any real parts. The parts would have simply never fit.
Greetings from Argentina 🙋♂️ I found your channel recently and I'm following you because I found it very interesting, since in my country they also make very good handmade improvements like the ones you do. I would like your opinion, if you are so kind, on which are for you the best two-way Hi-Fi speakers for classical and jazz music? Thanks and regards 🙋♂️
It's a good thing someone offers an upgrade to correct a few things. Unfortunately, my hearing has degraded to the point where I wear dual hearing aids particularly for high frequency loss, which affects speech, so taming those highs isn't necessarily a good thing for guys like me. One thing I can say about klipsch speakers is they sound excellent at high volume...go figure
Sir, let me understand this correctly. Your protégé went back to the original board./ Made the upgrade to which you now fit to The, new model speaker …. Am I correct? Regards KCB..🇬🇧👍
If Klipsch had done exactly what you did at their factory the cost of these speakers would be at least 60 percent more at retail, then they wouldn't be so enticing to potential buyers. Klipsch actually benefits financially by releasing them as is.The relatively few discerning listeners who don't like their sound will benefit from letting you upgrade them at a fair but substantial cost but that doesn't affect Klipsch.
Nice Danny. Do you have a mid level for cross over parts? As in an acceptable grade, mid grade and premium? When doing these upgrades are the premium grade the one that's used? And if there is a mid grade how large of a price difference between parts is there?
The bright highs are not a likeable feature in a speaker until you add a subwoofer, now you have a speaker that can handle the high highs, the subwoofer makes up for lack of lows. Great pairing speaker with a sub. Found the original Klipsch RP 600M on Crutchfield selling for $350. Gonna have to sell my Andrew Jones ELAC 2.0 for $200.
Let’s see, these speakers retail for $750 but can be had for $550 thanks to a big sell a couple of months ago. Now a good write up I saw just the other day said the cost of goods sold for speakers is right at 30% of retail and close to half of that is cabinet-more if exotic. Soooo total component cost of $225 (30% of $750), be generous and say only $100 for the cabinets leaving $125 for 2 tweeters, 2 woofers, and 2 crossovers, etc. Now we’re suggesting adding 3 times this cost for “some” improvement. It’s not magic folks. It’s why I built a DIY from CSS and stuffed it with Danny’s no-res.
Great video as usual. I look forward to your videos more than anything else I am subscribed to (despite the fact that would never buy a box speaker Lol!). Having owned Maggies (and now Dipole subs) for the past 30 years (now have Mundorf/Inductor modded 20.1s) - MY AUDIOPHILE GROUP AND I REMAIN CHAMPING AT THE BIT FOR THE 3.7i VIDEO!
Thanks Danny. The entire group of us (of which 95% own either Maggies, Apogees, Quad stacked 57s, Carver Amazings and even Spatial Audio) will be counting down the minutes to that post!!!!! 🙂
@@hoth2112 ....nothing ventured, nothing gained. I think Andrew Robinson is fair and objective. So sorry I must be wrong. PS: He reviewed the original 600 and MkII. I thought it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on your upgrade. Oh Well
@@mikejames-drummerreginacan1386 it's more related to his response after Danny did the "calling out reviewers" video earlier this year. Andrew was less than cordial in his response, and went off on Ron after it went live. (Despite the fact Danny said he liked Andrew) maybe it's something we can do in the future, but for now, it's best to leave things as they are. I had originally planned to send them to Erin from Erin's Audio Corner, but he's got a lot of personal stuff to take care of for the time being.
Having seen the breakup issues with the 8" & 10" woofers they use in the 8000F, RF7-II & III, it would be tricky. But paired with a good 8-10" paper cone woofer, it would make for a pretty solid option.
@@hoth2112 They could use a bigger horn crossed lower too, that might solve it. You know their woofers HAVE to be the shiny things they use, that's their look, even though paper is just straight up better. JBL's small horn based 2 ways, i forget the model, are better overall (at least stock vs stock)... but I do like the jbl horn design here, even if it needs a little EQ. I'm extremely religious about ALL speakers needing EQ, no speaker should be run flat; a good dsp EQ isn't hurting sound quality, so I prefer to judge and compare speakers after optimizing them. You should always tune the speaker as best as you can with EQ to see what it SOUNDS like after correcting the frequency response, and then judge/compare from there. A speaker that measures flat could sound inferior to a speaker that's far from flat after DSP correction, due to OTHER factors in the quality of the sound. Especially with bass... I completely ignore "flat" bass output, I am only concerned with potential bass output - what CAN the speaker do, not what does it do stock? I don't care if it needs 12db or 18db boost, if it can pump it out clean and loud, then it's superior to a speaker that measures flat without correction but can't compete after correction. The Klipsch obviously have other issues than just pure frequency response, and that's kind of my point... EQ it as best as it can be, then we can compare strengths and weaknesses. I'm into big diy speakers based on pro drivers. These types of drivers (like the jbl 2225h's in my main set), no matter the brand or box you build, ALWAYS need a bass boost. A good 15" pro driver in the right (large) cabinet, can easily give you flat bass to 30hz despite any specifications noting f3 at a given volume, or the mfr's "frequency response", it's meaningless. The question is, given the box and the driver, with DSP EQ, how loud can the driver play, say, 30hz? is it losing control and seeing rapidly increasing excursion? that's what matters. My particular jbl 2225h build has +18db at 30hz (and complex parametric correction above that) and the woofers barely move and get quite loud, it's just that they take lots of power to deliver the juice down in that range. with EQ the bass does not begin to decrease until 35hz, and is usable to 30hz. But without EQ, some botard would claim the speakers are thin and have no bass below 100hz, because pro drivers just aren't meant to play that low. uh, no... they don't have LESS low bass, they're just DRASTICALLY more efficient in the higher frequencies than a typical old school 15" woofer, which can't even come close to the 96-100 db sensitivity rating of pro woofers, and pairing them with super efficient horns just means that to match the bass level, you're gonna need to bring it up, or bring the rest down, your choice. That sensitivity rating is generally at 1khz... measured at 50hz they're probably not any more efficient than the normal 15" driver, hence you need to boost the bass to match. Plus flat sound is boring, there is never any excuse not to have the bass boosted in the lowest octave or two... not boomy bloated sounding bass boosts at 80 or 100hz, that's dumb... a bass boost should be a low shelf cornered at 30-40hz and gradually roll off to 80-120 depending on the system... nothing that alters the vocals or makes a bass guitar sound muddy. but low bass should never be flat, that's a terrible system.
Ive never found a klipsch speaker i liked. Always found them bright up top, boomy bloated mess on the bottom and the vocals sounded like they were coming through a toilet paper tube. My brother always says "thats a horn" my response is then why do no other horns sound that bad
@@dannyrichie9743 they were able to get soo far listening to just some of your advice Danny. Imagine if they did it all. Personally I'm saving up for one of your designed speakers. might as well
@@somestuffithoughtyoumightl6985 To get the best sound for the least amount of money, yes. Or just build one of our X-LS Encore models and blow past them both.
Tough on Klipsch is being tough to be kind. Same with any speaker, tell & show it how it is ...I say, i'd surely want to know what's going on in a speaker I'm thinking of buying & we in hi-fi land are these companies staple bread & butter, we deserve no less, thanks for being cruel but it's not the right word. I've seen the b4/after graphs of this potentially good speaker designs like this, particularly the ones showing bad summing at x/over points & off-axis responses, they should learn from this. Yeah, people buy them & they sound great to them out the box, no doubt & the ear can get used to all sorts of wild deviation away from properly summed x/over slopes, but i'd sooner start on a level playing field & know I'm not going to get gaping deep wells in the bass/tweeter x/over point & good off-axis sound, if i were thinking of buying this speaker.
Ehh no when I buy a speaker then it is for the sound it have and that I will not change, if you don’t like the sound then you got the wrong speaker to start with
I think you're being too harsh about the impedance curve. Modern amplification is *mostly built around the premise of trying to achieve near-zero ohm output impedance and behave like a perfect voltage gain device. At reasonable drive levels, variances in speaker impedance don't matter much as long as they don't dip low enough that other parts of the circuit (wire/amp) begin to play a meaningful role in the total circuit impedance. When a designer has a sloped impedance like this, they can actually account for it in the design (if they choose to) by simulating some impedance from the drive-side. I would actually argue that an effort to pull the impedance down, just for the sake of making it more balanced, is counter-productive from an overall efficiency standpoint. I wouldn't make that a design goal personally unless I were designing a speaker to be coupled to an old tube amp or something.
Danny or anyone else: Is there someone that does these upgrades for me if I purchase the upgrade? i have the speakers and I think the upgrades would be really nice, I just have two left hands and zero skill! Thanks!! Jason
You have earned my respect! I must say, that after watching the review of your modified RP600m, done by Audio Science Review, I was impressed with what was said by Amir. It appears that you truly improved the sound of those speakers. And now, I must truly agree with your comment that companies like Klipsch might be watching your videos to improve their products. I truly hope that you can embrace whatever criticism given to you by Amir on all your other products. Just like how you are able to criticize all the products you work on to improve, so should your products be criticized. This will set the platform for, room for improvement. Honest criticism is good criticism. You are a credit to the audiophile community.
Take what they say over there with a grain of salt. They are not reviewers. They measure and test then draw conclusions or theorize a result. They don't listen to anything and really have no idea what the sonic effects are.
Could you do a comp. between - how sound speakers ( choose not the worst... ) with "inhouse" crossover ( your parts, if u wish ) and an ACTIVE one ( ye + 2 power amps - if 2 way speakers ..) ? I used this solution for a while... It will be interesting to observe som PRO opinion on the subject.... If you could also, show the measurements of the comperings, would be 👍👍 Yes - this active stuff, is mostly for STAGE use - where speakers are bigger than a house, and propper passive crossovers wil need to be transported by rocket carriers...., but it did function pretty well in my case - with home speakers ( own build ). And don't worry that it will put you out of business - this solution does need investment - both money and muuuuch more SPACE ! + it is veeery NOT wife friendly 🤢🤢
Unfortunately for an active crossover to function properly it needs to be designed specifically for each speaker. That is not something I want to spend my time doing. It is a lot of work for a result that won't even be as good.
I don’t really completely understand the whole thing here. Certainly loses me in the tech details even though I’m an engineer. But I’m quite certain he knows what he is doing.
@@pedrocols From a business perspective, being able to sell your products at a large retailer or to even get space on their floor is quite the accomplishment. I've worked with consumer electronic manufacturers where being in Costco and Best Buys is where they sell their largest volumes of products. Though the down side is having to take back all the returned items, no questions asked, especially from Costco. So I'm not really understanding the hate for companies that are able to get into the consumer retail space, it actually will help the industry because you can sell to a much larger demographic as opposed selling direct to only the enthusiast.
very good. But don't stop there! not quite perfect frequency. if it were me, 5% improvement is too little. It should be easy to hear differences between original and modified
the problem with perfect frequency is that it doesn't guarantee at all that it will sound good. Ppl hearing is not that sensitive or critical to frequency response. It is a minor thing. More about phases, nice and ugly distortions, dispersion, reflections etc etc.
Just for shits and giggles, why don’t you throw your woofer driver and do a measuring and give an option of adding that to the upgrade! It’s going to be unreal. I put ur driver in and it’s epic! The drawback is only that you’re probably gonna sell out of those drivers…
I don't think our drivers will easily interchange. Plus, if you want a new woofer too, then you might as well just build out one of our kits using our better drivers to start with.
Lol so you brought down the tweeter by 2db and that’s about it. 90% of people using these will be using them on a receiver with EQ. So they can just do this for free instead of doubling the cost of the speaker…….. On the old model I will agree you made a difference but on this you are just reaching at issues to sells kits.
Balancing the output levels are just a small part of the upgrade. Improvements that come from parts quality upgrades, and cabinet resonance control are pretty huge, and really transform these speakers.
@@MrHaxor96 How would you suggest to measure clarity, reduced smearing, space between notes, imaging, sound stage layering, instrument separation, etc?
@@MrHaxor96 Back off, Austen. Danny did a video on the original that was poorly designed, pinpointing all the flaws. Klipsch finally corrected their design error (maybe even based on Danny's review). Danny gave credit where due, and then refined and improved the design even more! If you can't appreciate Danny's work, please go somewhere else. We don't need your negativity around here.
GR Research does great work, but I think they dropped the ball on this one. The mod mostly just lowers the response above 300 Hz. The result is significantly reduced sensitivity and too much bass
@@johnmd1970 The sensitivity below 300Hz is exactly the same. The result is not too much bass. The result is a bass level that is balanced to the rest of the speaker, or you could say that the rest of the speaker is now balanced to the bass level.
@@dannyrichie9743 OK. I assumed that since above 300 Hz was lowered by about 4 db, that in effect the bass below 300 Hz was relatively elevated 4 db. Whether the result is too much bass or not is subjective, but the result is a relative bass boost for a speaker that already has a bit of a boost around 100 Hz. Many may like this extra bass, but I don’t think it’s accurate, which, I think, is always your goal. With respect to sensitivity, others have measured this speakers real anechoic sensitivity to be 85db. That’s about average for a bookshelf speaker. By lowering the output above 300 Hz by 4 db, this speaker is now low sensitivity. I’ve noticed that your other mods don’t lower the sensitivity so much and don’t boost the effective bass. I agree that all of this may not matter to most listeners. I really admire your work and your videos. I just think this particular mod has some significant trade offs.
360$ for bunch of coper wire and aluminium/film rolled into a capacitor is a straight forward ripoff. But I guess for such scam to work you have to call it wizardry. I Can bet double blind test will prove about 50/50, if asked " which set do you preffere" its a Shame !
Nope, $360 is a small price to pay for a substantial upgrade. And side by side comparisons are clear and easily noted. We plan to do some recordings of each version for you guys to compare for yourselves.
@@dannyrichie9743 COG ( cost of goods) is a common used ratio denoting price of raw material divided by retail price. Usually COG > 3 ( Perfumes at Macys ) indicates extremely high profit margin and poor value for customers. However for customized boutique product like yours COG of 4 is not uncommon, and Inwould not hesitate to pay. Perhaps you can find a better vendor of components bakef coils and film capacitors have over century history, and are manufactured by hundreds of firms if not thousand entusiasts. Alot of those inexpensice parts are branded and saled with COG > 3 themself... A pretty big trap ( worst then bass trap) is put 4 COG on 3 COG, which is what is my suspision of the situation. Good Luck !
@@marcsmithsonian9773 FYI, we price each upgrade on the retail price of the parts. We don't add addition margins or anything for the design work, and our margins on caps, coils and resistors are fairly low and averages less than 30%. On our own products like No Rez or tube connectors our cost is about 50% of retail. So our margins are a LOT lower that what is typical for this market.
I dont get it why to put money into such an China Product and instead save money and buy something better. A Mass Produced Speaker like Klipsch does, save money on every Part (Cabinet, Electronical parts, driver, wires..) Its like to put an Porsche GT3 RS Motor into an Fiat Multipla, maybe he drives faster but at the end its still a overall bad product, with bad tires, bad suspension... would be way more interesting what you can achieve with already good Speakers
@@dannyrichie9743 no, with some serious Hifi Products from other Manufactures like just for example a Genelec or Neumann Speaker. I think its nonsense / thrown out money to put ,,tune,, a Product wich is already (sorry) mass produced crap like a lot of klipsch speakers. Nothing against your concept to tune speakers, its great, i think its just way more interesting to upgrade speakers who are already realy good
@@dannyrichie9743 many levels 🙄 wich one for example ? i'm curious... for example an Genelec 8351 is a pretty perfect speaker with lowerful DSP / Room Correction build in... I'm sure there are not many Passive bookshelf in that size who can deliver that overall quality. Specially because every Genelec i heard was by far the better sounding Product, than any Passive self named ,,High End,, Speaker from 20k € upwards.
While improved over the original 600M, the newer versions still aren't a straight line, the tweeter was still boosted 2db higher than the woofer. I could only listen to them when towed out directly into the room. When pointed at me, listening fatigue sets in rather quickly.
Not at all. An EQ can only alter the frequency response. We are making adjustments in phase, clarity, detail levels, imaging, sound stage layering, resonance control, bass damping, etc.
Does GR Research sell as many speakers as Klipsch...money is still important for some of us and Klipsch provides value for the rest of us, not you guys of course...you guys are rich...
Why would anybody buy a Klipsch only to then modify the speaker to not sound like a Klipsch? Just sell your new Klipsch to the many interested buyers on the used market and buy a set of speakers in the same price range that you prefer. In the end it will have cost you less than chasing mods to a set of speakers you made a mistake buying based on your sound preferences. Then again, how does one even buy a set of Klipsch in 2022 without knowing they are forward sounding? 15 mins on CZcams or Google will let you know their sound signature. If you don't know what you like and therefore reviews don't assist in your purchasing decision then go listen to a pair first.....every big box store in North America carries Klipsch consumer range lines. I really don't get the purpose of these videos......who is the target audience? Buyers who didn't do their research, bought a Klipsch thinking they would be neutral, can't figure out how to resell on used market and willing to spend hundreds modding a new set of speakers? Do people actually do this? It makes zero sense. Just sell them and get a set of speakers you like better at a similar price point.
@@dannyrichie9743 wow, nice! There is an internal logic to hifi that as a musician is truly beyond me. Buying a telecaster only to shorten the scale length and re routing it for a set of humbuckers is not something that ever happens in the guitar world....if you want something like a telecaster then buy something like a telecaster.....if you want something like a Gibson then buy something like a Gibson. Or even better have both! Still hoping you come out with a heresy sized kit....take my $ Danny!
I guess that Klipsch sell such large volumes of the R and RP ranges that even a small percentage of dissatisfied buyers is a large number. They buy them for their looks or based on a positive review which may be by someone with different taste, using different amplification in a different room/setup.
@@gaborozorai3714 yup that's my guess. Tens of thousands of pairs sold Danny was bound to catch a few fish with that many in the pond.....can't hate on a businessman doing business stuff. It's just weird to buy a Klipsch with it's long standing house sound only to change it into a more linear speaker of which there are many at a similar price.....especially when you can audition these range of Klipsch while you buy your groceries pretty much everywhere in north America. The hifi industry sure is a weird hobby!
My thinking, is people like Klipsch figures it gets its profits by volume, and since people are now thinking more of food being available, etc. speakers are not necessarily (except for the elitists, who have used all of us to make their millions) in a position to afford more expensive speakers; therefore, Klipsch uses the cheap stuff to keep their overhead low, while they still sell their speakers at a pretty penny for some people. After all, if they have people who are like you . . . then they can keep their profit margins, and give the more refinement work for people who buy them -- to bring them. to you.
I’ve seen you upgrade a speaker. then I’ve listen to podcast talking about the speaker and the designer of that speaker.. and he said he had over 100 different crossover tested and listened to and over 6 months….can you explain why you are better than everyone else!!!???
+1 Graphs are a bit different, but don't see any drastic improvements. Basically just lowered mids-highs a bit and used quality parts. Might sound a bit better, but might be also worse or indistinguishable.
Really, the designer spent 6 months testing and listening to different crossovers and he came up with some of the cheapest parts money can buy, binding posts with steel nuts and terminals, and a tweeter level 3db louder than the woofer level? I've help teach speaker design to kids in a high school physics class that did a better job on their speaker building projects than this.
@@dannyrichie9743 do you have measurements of how steel in terminals affects the sound? Curious if it can be measured at all. 3dB in tweeter is nothing, because all home theaters nowadays have Audyssey, Dirac Live etc. E.g. I have some JBL 8320 with X-Curve which is easily corrected during calibration to match all other standard speakers. Cheapest parts - probably valid point. At least distortion here might be measurable, though not sure if one can hear it during double blind.
@@AntonSafonov It is not just about what we can measure. I can make two speakers measure exactly the same and sound completely different. Here is an example: czcams.com/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/video.html
I am with on part Quality but they build to a price point … one thing all speaker designers that I’ve heard , many that have been building speakers since the 60s is that Measurements are just a guide and listening 👂 it more important.. so I wonder if you don’t listen you might be down grading speakers..
People usually purchase speakers they like the sound of, if all speakers were exactly the same and sounded the same everyone would purchase the cheapest version, i personally own a set of sonys, 2 pairs of omega speakers ( single driver no crossover) a pair of gr research and 3 different sets of klipsch, i happen to like all of them.
Danny I love the upgrade but as a Klipsch fan I love their house sound
Never the fatiguing sound other here and as an older man I believe the Klipsch get better as my hearing gets worse
Man! Great work yall. Waiting patiently for the mini DSP collaboration.
Funny thing is that they have such a big crowd of followers that love them Klipsch speakers the way they are.
You'd think, however Klipsch has been redesigning that whole series to correct the phase issues that I have been pointing out and correcting with the upgrades. So they appear to be acknowledging and correcting that problem.
That's like the guy who thinks his turbo 4 cylinder mustang is fast. To him it is fast but only because he's never driven the V8.
I have been through kef,wharefdale,b&w…next in line will be tekton….so far the klipsch rf711 are much better to my ears..sorry if some don’t agree but that’s my opinion👍
@@wendellgayheart9228 There are many different things that contributes to how a speaker sounds to different people. I know for myself the times I have listened to them at best Buy I could not get to like them.
True …just wish people would move on and leave klipsch and other brands they don’t like out of their vocabulary…a beautiful blonde might look like dog crap to one dude but another might find her to be the love of a lifetime…same goes for everything in this world..don’t have to put down what some people like to make one’s self look mighty smh
Just bought Dynaudio BM5 MkIII. Hopefully Mk III means they fixed all the problems from previous Mk's and you would give them a thumbs up. Nice to watch a pro like that. Thanks.
Great work again!
Great video and great explanation! Really curious how listening reviews will be.
He will never do it
You bet your Texan ass Danny the brands have their people paying attention to your content! Dont doubt that even a little! Your contributions over the past few years have definitely helped put the "game" in check!
Why. Because he can read a graph and so so ears.
Looking forward to before and after audio clips.
I would love to see you doing some RB 61 MKIIs or RB 81 MKIIs...
Thank you for that video! When do you plan to do the ATC SCM 19 Video? Thanks!
czcams.com/video/irdIUAcA7MU/video.html
I didn’t want a flat response speaker. That’s why I bought Klipsch. I mean, I hope Danny sells a couple hundred upgrade kits, but if I wanted flat frequency response, etc., I would have bought Ascend Acoustics or some similar brand… So $370 for the kit , 500+ for the speakers, put that together and you’ve got almost $900 budget. Just sayin’
Firstly, being off phase is the real issue, it has nothing with being "neutral". Being off phase a serious problem that should not be in ANY speaker. Secondly, being neutral is nearly impossible; there are thousands of ways how to approach the ideal state of speaker's response across all frequencies, and there, no two speakers are the same.
Love the wizard hat. It's you!
Danny, would be possible to feature the original owners of the speakers in your vids who then compare / contrasts the sound after your upgrades ?
Cool thing to do for sure but at $369 just for this upgrade essentially doubles the price of the speakers depending on if you can get them more on sale. With this upgrade plus to speaker cost getting into the $800 to $1000 range there are better speaker options available that sound better without having to screw around with an upgrade. Still neat upgrade idea I just can't see the value in it other than just a little DoIt yourself project. We've all got enough of those sadly...
You are so right. This guy just likes to think of himself as a genius. Lol.
no way you get better speakers for 1000$ than what Richie can upgrade.
Will be good to see an Evo 4.2 upgrade
Good job 👍
Can't wait to hear the before and after. Wait what am I saying they are still Klipsch speakers... Let me rephrase that. Can't wait to hear the difference between them.
I believe the reason for the steel nuts on the inside of the binding posts is proof of the nature of budget speaker design: they're less prone to stripping than softer brass is. When you're a Chinese factory pumping out thousands of speakers for multiple companies and suffice on volume, you use tricks like that to get build quality uniform when your line workers are pumping them out fast. Even if it comes to a lesser result in the end.
You may be right.
@@xarifa777 where did I say that Chinese labor wasn't adequate? I did not. What I did say was that when you're a factory producing something in large quantities you need to take into account manufacturing efficiencies. Brass on brass will strip. Steel on brass likely will not.
This is what happens when the bean counters make the design decisions. Same is true with most mass produced speakers. I love that you're exposing their "cheese" for what is. Keep up the great work Danny!
Even at $2000 each, the large RF-7 III use the same parts quality as the 600M V2 so the bean counters have there hands in the pot at every level.
TBH, Klipsch is not exactly high-end, bean counters bee damned. A decent 5.1 system runs $2k. The REAL culprits are the mid and ultra-high-end speakers Danny reviews, running $2k per pair and up.
@@wwlittlejOfficial Exactly, Klipsch has always been about great bang for your buck, they give a lot of high end speakers a run for their money, in addition to creating a signature sound that some people love (albeit some people loathe) but I do appreciate their excellent imaging and dynamics, all that being said, you can't expect ultra high end parts, unless you're willing to accept high end prices.
@@johnnycorona8851 one would expect competent engineering even without premium parts. Plenty of companies achieving this , even at the entry level point
lol get sony instead then
Hi, thanks a lot for your explanations, always on the top.
I have RP160M's which to my knowledge are predecessors of the RP600. Does it mean they are even worse than the mk1, or was the mk1's a simplified version of my 160's ?
How could I improve my older version?
I've read that the dip in frequency response was introduced when Klipsch introduced the 600 and also the problem is in the 8000F as well.
Would love to see a side by side of the old version with your upgrades and the new one with your upgrades. I'm sure I can just watch the old video and compare myself, just thought it would be interesting
He would never do it
Because of the way Tube amps handle different impedance levels, could this be why they work so great with Klipsch speakers?
You might be on to something?
Should call them the 600 mark 3 GR specials still good value with those mods Klipsch hope they are listening
main problem with Klipsch speakers is the tweeter is "hot" relative to the woofer. bi-amping does help a little, i've bi-amped my rp-600m ii and rp-6000f ii and they both respond well to bi-amping, much better bass authority for better balanced sound, but ideally you shouldn't need to bi-amp for good sound.
i want to play it loud without it sounding bright, hot, and harsh RP series is little better than the OG but still needs more work
Last fall/Christmas time of year I could have picked up a pair of the 600 orginals for right at 300ish. Would u recommend purchasing the orginals over the 2nd gen. I guess what I'm wondering does the 1st gen with the upgrade sound as good as the 2nd gen upgraded? If a difference, how big? Night and day or just a click or two? What would u do?
You should just get Polk R200s instead.
Excellent
Hi Danny, are you gonna test the Polk reserve R200 or R100 ? This will be interesting 🤔
Only if someone sends one in.
Danny, I am selling my old RP-600M's and getting into the Elac Unify 2.0, which seems to be loved by many. I would have done the mod if I was keeping the RP-600s. I saw you were pretty pleased with the lower speed Elac Debuts, and wonder if you have given the Unify UB52? Seems like a special speaker for the money. Thoughts?
We had someone send in the UB52's. They were loaded with super cheap budget level parts (cheesy) and there was no room left in the box for any real parts. The parts would have simply never fit.
Greetings from Argentina 🙋♂️ I found your channel recently and I'm following you because I found it very interesting, since in my country they also make very good handmade improvements like the ones you do. I would like your opinion, if you are so kind, on which are for you the best two-way Hi-Fi speakers for classical and jazz music? Thanks and regards 🙋♂️
I'd go with our NX Studio Monitor. gr-research.com/nx-series-3/
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks and regards 👍👍👍🙋♂️
It's a good thing someone offers an upgrade to correct a few things. Unfortunately, my hearing has degraded to the point where I wear dual hearing aids particularly for high frequency loss, which affects speech, so taming those highs isn't necessarily a good thing for guys like me. One thing I can say about klipsch speakers is they sound excellent at high volume...go figure
Please send them to reviewers.
Keep doing what you do.
After the brand, marketing, build and testing?
You pull more out of the product.
Sir, let me understand this correctly. Your protégé went back to the original board./
Made the upgrade to which you now fit to The, new model speaker …. Am I correct?
Regards KCB..🇬🇧👍
If Klipsch had done exactly what you did at their factory the cost of these speakers would be at least 60 percent more at retail,
then they wouldn't be so enticing to potential buyers. Klipsch actually benefits financially by releasing them as is.The relatively few discerning listeners who don't like their sound will benefit from letting you upgrade them at a fair but substantial cost but that doesn't affect Klipsch.
Nice Danny. Do you have a mid level for cross over parts? As in an acceptable grade, mid grade and premium? When doing these upgrades are the premium grade the one that's used? And if there is a mid grade how large of a price difference between parts is there?
I try to come up with the best bang for the buck with these upgrades.
@@dannyrichie9743 ah ok great I understand thanks, like what is relative to the speaker itself and the quality that is warranted
@@dannyrichie9743 i do like the two tier upgrade path: 1-audiophile grade, 2-premium
The bright highs are not a likeable feature in a speaker until you add a subwoofer, now you have a speaker that can handle the high highs, the subwoofer makes up for lack of lows. Great pairing speaker with a sub. Found the original Klipsch RP 600M on Crutchfield selling for $350. Gonna have to sell my Andrew Jones ELAC 2.0 for $200.
Can we all just stop and take a moment to appreciate that hilarious video thumbnail 👍
Let’s see, these speakers retail for $750 but can be had for $550 thanks to a big sell a couple of months ago. Now a good write up I saw just the other day said the cost of goods sold for speakers is right at 30% of retail and close to half of that is cabinet-more if exotic. Soooo total component cost of $225 (30% of $750), be generous and say only $100 for the cabinets leaving $125 for 2 tweeters, 2 woofers, and 2 crossovers, etc. Now we’re suggesting adding 3 times this cost for “some” improvement. It’s not magic folks. It’s why I built a DIY from CSS and stuffed it with Danny’s no-res.
Yes, DIY is still the way to go, but these upgrades have brought a lot of new people into DIY.
@@dannyrichie9743 I’m sure. Let’s face it, especially for the original, you managed to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
can someone share their experience with the tube connectors? is it snake oil or do they make day and night difference in sound?
Well after watching a few videos, I need to start at the beginning and maybe 100 hours from now I'll figure out how to build a set of speakers
Any thoughts on the upgraded Mk1 vs upgraded Mk2 ?
In the end, they both came out about the same.
Should I send you my Watkins Gen 4 ?
Danny. We are now on medication to calm us down from the anxiety of waiting for the 3.7i upgrade video 🙂
I shot that one a few days ago. So it will be released soon. It's a doozie.
Better to get the old 600m's and upgrade or the new ones? I would assume the new ones?
After the upgrade they are about the same.
How do they sound under low level volume?
What about bi amping 🙂 two or three way crossover with time delay at least 12 decibels per octave any opinions
There is nothing to gain by bi-amping a small speaker like this one.
The way Klipsch should have done it to begin with. Maybe with the mkiii?
Great video as usual. I look forward to your videos more than anything else I am subscribed to (despite the fact that would never buy a box speaker Lol!). Having owned Maggies (and now Dipole subs) for the past 30 years (now have Mundorf/Inductor modded 20.1s) - MY AUDIOPHILE GROUP AND I REMAIN CHAMPING AT THE BIT FOR THE 3.7i VIDEO!
The 3.7i upgrade is done (it was huge) and I will be shooting something on it next week.
Thanks Danny. The entire group of us (of which 95% own either Maggies, Apogees, Quad stacked 57s, Carver Amazings and even Spatial Audio) will be counting down the minutes to that post!!!!! 🙂
After completed please send to Andrew Robinson........great video
I doubt he wants anything to do with us.
@@hoth2112 ....nothing ventured, nothing gained. I think Andrew Robinson is fair and objective. So sorry I must be wrong. PS: He reviewed the original 600 and MkII. I thought it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on your upgrade. Oh Well
@@mikejames-drummerreginacan1386 it's more related to his response after Danny did the "calling out reviewers" video earlier this year. Andrew was less than cordial in his response, and went off on Ron after it went live. (Despite the fact Danny said he liked Andrew) maybe it's something we can do in the future, but for now, it's best to leave things as they are.
I had originally planned to send them to Erin from Erin's Audio Corner, but he's got a lot of personal stuff to take care of for the time being.
@@hoth2112 ....thanks for the update.
In short, he is not ready to review our products or any high end products.
Is it okay to have the crossover on the outside since its bi wire?
You wouldn't want to do that with the factory binding posts, but you could do that if you replaced both sets with tube connectors.
They need to make a 8 or 10 inch of these speakers with all of the improvements. That would be really sweet.
Having seen the breakup issues with the 8" & 10" woofers they use in the 8000F, RF7-II & III, it would be tricky. But paired with a good 8-10" paper cone woofer, it would make for a pretty solid option.
@@hoth2112 They could use a bigger horn crossed lower too, that might solve it. You know their woofers HAVE to be the shiny things they use, that's their look, even though paper is just straight up better. JBL's small horn based 2 ways, i forget the model, are better overall (at least stock vs stock)... but I do like the jbl horn design here, even if it needs a little EQ. I'm extremely religious about ALL speakers needing EQ, no speaker should be run flat; a good dsp EQ isn't hurting sound quality, so I prefer to judge and compare speakers after optimizing them. You should always tune the speaker as best as you can with EQ to see what it SOUNDS like after correcting the frequency response, and then judge/compare from there. A speaker that measures flat could sound inferior to a speaker that's far from flat after DSP correction, due to OTHER factors in the quality of the sound. Especially with bass... I completely ignore "flat" bass output, I am only concerned with potential bass output - what CAN the speaker do, not what does it do stock? I don't care if it needs 12db or 18db boost, if it can pump it out clean and loud, then it's superior to a speaker that measures flat without correction but can't compete after correction. The Klipsch obviously have other issues than just pure frequency response, and that's kind of my point... EQ it as best as it can be, then we can compare strengths and weaknesses.
I'm into big diy speakers based on pro drivers. These types of drivers (like the jbl 2225h's in my main set), no matter the brand or box you build, ALWAYS need a bass boost. A good 15" pro driver in the right (large) cabinet, can easily give you flat bass to 30hz despite any specifications noting f3 at a given volume, or the mfr's "frequency response", it's meaningless. The question is, given the box and the driver, with DSP EQ, how loud can the driver play, say, 30hz? is it losing control and seeing rapidly increasing excursion? that's what matters. My particular jbl 2225h build has +18db at 30hz (and complex parametric correction above that) and the woofers barely move and get quite loud, it's just that they take lots of power to deliver the juice down in that range. with EQ the bass does not begin to decrease until 35hz, and is usable to 30hz. But without EQ, some botard would claim the speakers are thin and have no bass below 100hz, because pro drivers just aren't meant to play that low. uh, no... they don't have LESS low bass, they're just DRASTICALLY more efficient in the higher frequencies than a typical old school 15" woofer, which can't even come close to the 96-100 db sensitivity rating of pro woofers, and pairing them with super efficient horns just means that to match the bass level, you're gonna need to bring it up, or bring the rest down, your choice. That sensitivity rating is generally at 1khz... measured at 50hz they're probably not any more efficient than the normal 15" driver, hence you need to boost the bass to match. Plus flat sound is boring, there is never any excuse not to have the bass boosted in the lowest octave or two... not boomy bloated sounding bass boosts at 80 or 100hz, that's dumb... a bass boost should be a low shelf cornered at 30-40hz and gradually roll off to 80-120 depending on the system... nothing that alters the vocals or makes a bass guitar sound muddy. but low bass should never be flat, that's a terrible system.
Will this upgrade also work on the original RP600M?
No, but we already have the upgrade available for that model on our site. Danny also did several videos upgrading the original 600M
Please send these to Jay Iyagi for blindfolded a/b testing against stock version.
Ive never found a klipsch speaker i liked. Always found them bright up top, boomy bloated mess on the bottom and the vocals sounded like they were coming through a toilet paper tube. My brother always says "thats a horn" my response is then why do no other horns sound that bad
I feel like if klipsch just gave an ultimate version they would sell like crazy. they could even partner with gr research I bet for a special edition
That might be a good idea.
@@dannyrichie9743 they were able to get soo far listening to just some of your advice Danny. Imagine if they did it all. Personally I'm saving up for one of your designed speakers. might as well
I thought the same. It should be the GR Edition.
Like Mercedes does with AMG - I would pay extra for that
@@V1ralB1ack You could do so much better. Why aim so low?
Send a pair to Steve Gutenburg.
Hey Danny. Will this upgrade work with v1 also? How do the v1 upgrade vs v2 upgrade compare sound wise?
They are both different and do not interchange. After the upgrades, they are both about the same.
So a better deal is to buy V1 for le$$ and mod?
@@somestuffithoughtyoumightl6985 To get the best sound for the least amount of money, yes. Or just build one of our X-LS Encore models and blow past them both.
So you don't like boom and sizzle?
Why don’t you get a job at Klipsch or do some partnership with them? limited edition GR version ? …..anyway, good luck
Send them out to Klipsch
@cheapaudioman needs to to a comparison
Tough on Klipsch is being tough to be kind. Same with any speaker, tell & show it how it is ...I say, i'd surely want to know what's going on in a speaker I'm thinking of buying & we in hi-fi land are these companies staple bread & butter, we deserve no less, thanks for being cruel but it's not the right word. I've seen the b4/after graphs of this potentially good speaker designs like this, particularly the ones showing bad summing at x/over points & off-axis responses, they should learn from this. Yeah, people buy them & they sound great to them out the box, no doubt & the ear can get used to all sorts of wild deviation away from properly summed x/over slopes, but i'd sooner start on a level playing field & know I'm not going to get gaping deep wells in the bass/tweeter x/over point & good off-axis sound, if i were thinking of buying this speaker.
How can I get parts?
You can order the upgrade from our website.
Ehh no when I buy a speaker then it is for the sound it have and that I will not change, if you don’t like the sound then you got the wrong speaker to start with
I think you're being too harsh about the impedance curve. Modern amplification is *mostly built around the premise of trying to achieve near-zero ohm output impedance and behave like a perfect voltage gain device. At reasonable drive levels, variances in speaker impedance don't matter much as long as they don't dip low enough that other parts of the circuit (wire/amp) begin to play a meaningful role in the total circuit impedance. When a designer has a sloped impedance like this, they can actually account for it in the design (if they choose to) by simulating some impedance from the drive-side. I would actually argue that an effort to pull the impedance down, just for the sake of making it more balanced, is counter-productive from an overall efficiency standpoint. I wouldn't make that a design goal personally unless I were designing a speaker to be coupled to an old tube amp or something.
Lots of people still use tube amps.
Its magic .
Thanks Danny, you don't need the click bait title though..leave that to the adolescents
My editor comes up with all of that stuff.
🦌💸🛃
Danny or anyone else: Is there someone that does these upgrades for me if I purchase the upgrade? i have the speakers and I think the upgrades would be really nice, I just have two left hands and zero skill! Thanks!! Jason
There are a few guys in our forum at the Audio Circle that will help you out.
You have earned my respect!
I must say, that after watching the review of your modified RP600m, done by Audio Science Review, I was impressed with what was said by Amir. It appears that you truly improved the sound of those speakers. And now, I must truly agree with your comment that companies like Klipsch might be watching your videos to improve their products.
I truly hope that you can embrace whatever criticism given to you by Amir on all your other products. Just like how you are able to criticize all the products you work on to improve, so should your products be criticized. This will set the platform for, room for improvement. Honest criticism is good criticism. You are a credit to the audiophile community.
Take what they say over there with a grain of salt. They are not reviewers. They measure and test then draw conclusions or theorize a result. They don't listen to anything and really have no idea what the sonic effects are.
@@dannyrichie9743 With that being said, I still think we can all learn from each other on this fantastic platform called, "The University of CZcams"
Could you do a comp. between - how sound speakers ( choose not the worst... ) with "inhouse" crossover ( your parts, if u wish ) and an ACTIVE one ( ye + 2 power amps - if 2 way speakers ..) ? I used this solution for a while... It will be interesting to observe som PRO opinion on the subject.... If you could also, show the measurements of the comperings, would be 👍👍 Yes - this active stuff, is mostly for STAGE use - where speakers are bigger than a house, and propper passive crossovers wil need to be transported by rocket carriers...., but it did function pretty well in my case - with home speakers ( own build ). And don't worry that it will put you out of business - this solution does need investment - both money and muuuuch more SPACE ! + it is veeery NOT wife friendly 🤢🤢
Unfortunately for an active crossover to function properly it needs to be designed specifically for each speaker. That is not something I want to spend my time doing. It is a lot of work for a result that won't even be as good.
I don’t really completely understand the whole thing here. Certainly loses me in the tech details even though I’m an engineer. But I’m quite certain he knows what he is doing.
There are sure lots of polly out there.
Polly wants some cracker....
Like 👍
Klipsssssschhhhhhhhh will only blow your ears. Nothing else.
Mr. Danny the hi-fi fairy, I too wish my speakers to be sprinkled with your magic cheese dust and bring me to audio nirvana!
One day, soon, I'm going to see someone commenting on the fact that you're changing the internal volume of the box, due to the use of bigger parts :))
Lol
Doesn't matter too much since Klipsch doesn't do bass.
Most people that buy Klipsch speaker don't really care about anything that's been said and discussed in this video.
Perhaps they should. It seems Klipsch do hence they are now fixing their poor designs after learning from Danny 👍🤣🤣🤣
@@arfer1470 Not all music enthusiasts are obsessed with good quality sound especially those that buy Klipsch speakers at Best Buy.
@@pedrocols From a business perspective, being able to sell your products at a large retailer or to even get space on their floor is quite the accomplishment. I've worked with consumer electronic manufacturers where being in Costco and Best Buys is where they sell their largest volumes of products. Though the down side is having to take back all the returned items, no questions asked, especially from Costco. So I'm not really understanding the hate for companies that are able to get into the consumer retail space, it actually will help the industry because you can sell to a much larger demographic as opposed selling direct to only the enthusiast.
here for the click bait wizardry thanks danny!
very good. But don't stop there! not quite perfect frequency. if it were me, 5% improvement is too little. It should be easy to hear differences between original and modified
the problem with perfect frequency is that it doesn't guarantee at all that it will sound good. Ppl hearing is not that sensitive or critical to frequency response. It is a minor thing. More about phases, nice and ugly distortions, dispersion, reflections etc etc.
Just for shits and giggles, why don’t you throw your woofer driver and do a measuring and give an option of adding that to the upgrade! It’s going to be unreal. I put ur driver in and it’s epic! The drawback is only that you’re probably gonna sell out of those drivers…
I don't think our drivers will easily interchange. Plus, if you want a new woofer too, then you might as well just build out one of our kits using our better drivers to start with.
Lol so you brought down the tweeter by 2db and that’s about it. 90% of people using these will be using them on a receiver with EQ. So they can just do this for free instead of doubling the cost of the speaker…….. On the old model I will agree you made a difference but on this you are just reaching at issues to sells kits.
Balancing the output levels are just a small part of the upgrade. Improvements that come from parts quality upgrades, and cabinet resonance control are pretty huge, and really transform these speakers.
You don’t really know what you’re talking about do you? I remember when I had my first beer
@@dannyrichie9743 than show us the other improvements using data in the future. Distortion/Clarity is something that can be measured.
@@MrHaxor96 How would you suggest to measure clarity, reduced smearing, space between notes, imaging, sound stage layering, instrument separation, etc?
@@MrHaxor96 Back off, Austen. Danny did a video on the original that was poorly designed, pinpointing all the flaws. Klipsch finally corrected their design error (maybe even based on Danny's review). Danny gave credit where due, and then refined and improved the design even more! If you can't appreciate Danny's work, please go somewhere else. We don't need your negativity around here.
Hey err'body
Let’s hope that Klipsch continue to make cheeze speakers. There is money to be made from it. Danny can attest to that 😅
GR Research does great work, but I think they dropped the ball on this one. The mod mostly just lowers the response above 300 Hz. The result is significantly reduced sensitivity and too much bass
Adjusting the balance is just a small part of the upgrade. The upgrade in parts quality is significant across the board.
@@dannyrichie9743 I agree that the parts are better. I’m just pointing out the lower sensitivity and effectively boosted bass.
@@johnmd1970 The sensitivity below 300Hz is exactly the same. The result is not too much bass. The result is a bass level that is balanced to the rest of the speaker, or you could say that the rest of the speaker is now balanced to the bass level.
@@dannyrichie9743 OK. I assumed that since above 300 Hz was lowered by about 4 db, that in effect the bass below 300 Hz was relatively elevated 4 db. Whether the result is too much bass or not is subjective, but the result is a relative bass boost for a speaker that already has a bit of a boost around 100 Hz. Many may like this extra bass, but I don’t think it’s accurate, which, I think, is always your goal.
With respect to sensitivity, others have measured this speakers real anechoic sensitivity to be 85db. That’s about average for a bookshelf speaker. By lowering the output above 300 Hz by 4 db, this speaker is now low sensitivity. I’ve noticed that your other mods don’t lower the sensitivity so much and don’t boost the effective bass.
I agree that all of this may not matter to most listeners.
I really admire your work and your videos. I just think this particular mod has some significant trade offs.
@@johnmd1970 When I was done with it the average sensitivity was about 87.5db and balanced.
Equally funny is the number of people who despise those speakers no matter what you do to them, other than tossing in the trash.
Delgado Delgotit
360$ for bunch of coper wire and aluminium/film rolled into a capacitor is a straight forward ripoff. But I guess for such scam to work you have to call it wizardry. I Can bet double blind test will prove about 50/50, if asked " which set do you preffere" its a Shame !
Nope, $360 is a small price to pay for a substantial upgrade. And side by side comparisons are clear and easily noted. We plan to do some recordings of each version for you guys to compare for yourselves.
@@dannyrichie9743 COG ( cost of goods) is a common used ratio denoting price of raw material divided by retail price. Usually COG > 3 ( Perfumes at Macys ) indicates extremely high profit margin and poor value for customers. However for customized boutique product like yours COG of 4 is not uncommon, and Inwould not hesitate to pay. Perhaps you can find a better vendor of components bakef coils and film capacitors have over century history, and are manufactured by hundreds of firms if not thousand entusiasts. Alot of those inexpensice parts are branded and saled with COG > 3 themself... A pretty big trap ( worst then bass trap) is put 4 COG on 3 COG, which is what is my suspision of the situation. Good Luck !
@@marcsmithsonian9773 FYI, we price each upgrade on the retail price of the parts. We don't add addition margins or anything for the design work, and our margins on caps, coils and resistors are fairly low and averages less than 30%. On our own products like No Rez or tube connectors our cost is about 50% of retail. So our margins are a LOT lower that what is typical for this market.
I dont get it why to put money into such an China Product and instead save money and buy something better. A Mass Produced Speaker like Klipsch does, save money on every Part (Cabinet, Electronical parts, driver, wires..) Its like to put an Porsche GT3 RS Motor into an Fiat Multipla, maybe he drives faster but at the end its still a overall bad product, with bad tires, bad suspension... would be way more interesting what you can achieve with already good Speakers
You mean like with our own products?
@@dannyrichie9743 no, with some serious Hifi Products from other Manufactures like just for example a Genelec or Neumann Speaker. I think its nonsense / thrown out money to put ,,tune,, a Product wich is already (sorry) mass produced crap like a lot of klipsch speakers. Nothing against your concept to tune speakers, its great, i think its just way more interesting to upgrade speakers who are already realy good
@@vtkz We already have our own products that are many levels past Genelec or Neumann.
"Hello, Jerry"...."Hello...Neumann"
@@dannyrichie9743 many levels 🙄 wich one for example ? i'm curious... for example an Genelec 8351 is a pretty perfect speaker with lowerful DSP / Room Correction build in... I'm sure there are not many Passive bookshelf in that size who can deliver that overall quality. Specially because every Genelec i heard was by far the better sounding Product, than any Passive self named ,,High End,, Speaker from 20k € upwards.
LMAO you will find something wrong with a straight line. Ahh it's not quite a circle leaning more towards a square. 🤣
While improved over the original 600M, the newer versions still aren't a straight line, the tweeter was still boosted 2db higher than the woofer. I could only listen to them when towed out directly into the room. When pointed at me, listening fatigue sets in rather quickly.
@@hoth2112 at least the cymbals would sound very klipssscchh-y
All adjustments can be made via an equaliser so why does this channel exist ?
Not at all. An EQ can only alter the frequency response. We are making adjustments in phase, clarity, detail levels, imaging, sound stage layering, resonance control, bass damping, etc.
Does GR Research sell as many speakers as Klipsch...money is still important for some of us and Klipsch provides value for the rest of us, not you guys of course...you guys are rich...
Most of our customer base is not rich. The Klipsch upgrades are budget level upgrades. We also offer a lot budget level models.
This station seems to be skipping on a klipsch track, and it's getting old.
I know, but people just keep sending them in. I did n;t even shot a video on all of them.
Why would anybody buy a Klipsch only to then modify the speaker to not sound like a Klipsch? Just sell your new Klipsch to the many interested buyers on the used market and buy a set of speakers in the same price range that you prefer. In the end it will have cost you less than chasing mods to a set of speakers you made a mistake buying based on your sound preferences. Then again, how does one even buy a set of Klipsch in 2022 without knowing they are forward sounding? 15 mins on CZcams or Google will let you know their sound signature. If you don't know what you like and therefore reviews don't assist in your purchasing decision then go listen to a pair first.....every big box store in North America carries Klipsch consumer range lines. I really don't get the purpose of these videos......who is the target audience? Buyers who didn't do their research, bought a Klipsch thinking they would be neutral, can't figure out how to resell on used market and willing to spend hundreds modding a new set of speakers? Do people actually do this? It makes zero sense. Just sell them and get a set of speakers you like better at a similar price point.
We have sold about 300 upgrade kits for the original RP-600M.
@@dannyrichie9743 wow, nice! There is an internal logic to hifi that as a musician is truly beyond me. Buying a telecaster only to shorten the scale length and re routing it for a set of humbuckers is not something that ever happens in the guitar world....if you want something like a telecaster then buy something like a telecaster.....if you want something like a Gibson then buy something like a Gibson. Or even better have both! Still hoping you come out with a heresy sized kit....take my $ Danny!
@@billbones1000 We are working on that.
I guess that Klipsch sell such large volumes of the R and RP ranges that even a small percentage of dissatisfied buyers is a large number. They buy them for their looks or based on a positive review which may be by someone with different taste, using different amplification in a different room/setup.
@@gaborozorai3714 yup that's my guess. Tens of thousands of pairs sold Danny was bound to catch a few fish with that many in the pond.....can't hate on a businessman doing business stuff. It's just weird to buy a Klipsch with it's long standing house sound only to change it into a more linear speaker of which there are many at a similar price.....especially when you can audition these range of Klipsch while you buy your groceries pretty much everywhere in north America. The hifi industry sure is a weird hobby!
My thinking, is people like Klipsch figures it gets its profits by volume, and since people are now thinking more of food being available, etc. speakers are not necessarily (except for the elitists, who have used all of us to make their millions) in a position to afford more expensive speakers; therefore, Klipsch uses the cheap stuff to keep their overhead low, while they still sell their speakers at a pretty penny for some people.
After all, if they have people who are like you . . . then they can keep their profit margins, and give the more refinement work for people who buy them -- to bring them. to you.
Oh great, more Klipsch.....why?
Cuz we have a ton of them getting sent to us..
I ask myself how many Versions did they need for a good result? Only the price has a higher Level. Haw haw. +100€ a pair. 😄😄👍🇩🇪
I’ve seen you upgrade a speaker. then I’ve listen to podcast talking about the speaker and the designer of that speaker.. and he said he had over 100 different crossover tested and listened to and over 6 months….can you explain why you are better than everyone else!!!???
+1
Graphs are a bit different, but don't see any drastic improvements. Basically just lowered mids-highs a bit and used quality parts. Might sound a bit better, but might be also worse or indistinguishable.
Really, the designer spent 6 months testing and listening to different crossovers and he came up with some of the cheapest parts money can buy, binding posts with steel nuts and terminals, and a tweeter level 3db louder than the woofer level? I've help teach speaker design to kids in a high school physics class that did a better job on their speaker building projects than this.
@@dannyrichie9743 do you have measurements of how steel in terminals affects the sound? Curious if it can be measured at all.
3dB in tweeter is nothing, because all home theaters nowadays have Audyssey, Dirac Live etc. E.g. I have some JBL 8320 with X-Curve which is easily corrected during calibration to match all other standard speakers.
Cheapest parts - probably valid point. At least distortion here might be measurable, though not sure if one can hear it during double blind.
@@AntonSafonov It is not just about what we can measure. I can make two speakers measure exactly the same and sound completely different. Here is an example: czcams.com/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/video.html
I am with on part Quality but they build to a price point … one thing all speaker designers that I’ve heard , many that have been building speakers since the 60s is that Measurements are just a guide and listening 👂 it more important.. so I wonder if you don’t listen you might be down grading speakers..
People usually purchase speakers they like the sound of, if all speakers were exactly the same and sounded the same everyone would purchase the cheapest version, i personally own a set of sonys, 2 pairs of omega speakers ( single driver no crossover) a pair of gr research and 3 different sets of klipsch, i happen to like all of them.
A lot of people really like doing upgrades.
I for one believe someone at Klipsch (VOXX) is paying attention to you.