#parts #hi-end #audiophile Visit us: www.gr-research.com/ In todays video, we answer the question: Do Audiophile Parts Matter? Dont forget to like and subscribe!
I am 71 yrs old and wish I was young again, with good hearing and time to tinker with my 7 year old Diamond 10.4, Cayin EL-34 tube amp and Marantz cd-6004 which are in my spacious bedroom. I have mild hearing loss in both ears, lower midrange in the left and higher midrange on the right. Yet, I am happy with the smooth, seemingly clear sounds as I think my brain helps to balance what I'm hearing. I enjoy your program and appreciate all you do. My speakers can go down to 38hz and can feel them specially in Saint Saens Organ concerto.
Sure but this is just a guy saying some stuff is better than other stuff without any actual evidence. This video would have been so much better if he'd just measure the same crossover output with a cheap / small coild and again with an expensive coil. Right now it's just "You know, some stuff is better then others, better buy THIS stuff because, well, I say so".
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy I ordered from GR and have it in my mid-fi gear and it sounds great. Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. And maybe you will see what he talking about 🙂
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy He already did that in another video. They measure the same but sound different. Which means the type of measurement that's usually done doesn't measure the type of difference that is heard. Two cars with 300bhp might not do a 1/4 mile in the same amount of time. Are you going to say that because they "measure" the same, they are going to perform the same?
Air wound inductors. If you want layman's terms , it's just thick copper wire wound into a coil ( you could wrap it around your finger). Simple as. It's just a feedback effect. The magnetic field from one coil interacting with the coil next to it and " chocking" high frequencies. There's nothing layman in any of this it's just Physics at its root.
Danny, love your videos. I bought my first stereo in 1970 when I was in the USAF. Everyone in the barracks was buying stereos despite the fact that we were only getting paid about $200 per month. Some of the guys who had been stationed in Vietnam came back with very high end stereos, cameras and other equipment. It was kind of crazy but that's what bored 19-22 year old single guys spent their money on. My first speakers were AR-5s which cost $175 each. My first receiver was the Heathkit AR-15 which I think cost about $300. I used them until 1995 when the woofer cone cracked. Since then I have purchased many other speakers without really understanding the specifications. In the last few weeks I have learned more from your you-tube videos than l learned during all those years. If I could make a suggestion; it would help me follow the discussion if you could use an electronic pointer when discussing the performance graphs. I would also help if you define what the axes represent on each of graphs. Thanks, keep up the great work.
If someone says parts don't matter, they haven't built a guitar amp or crossover or anything. Some things don't sound as drastic but everything has its own personality going on pretty much to different degrees
I haven't built anything as of yet, but I'm learning a lot from your videos on this subject.. It's very interesting to learn of the quality or bad quality of components inside of a speaker. Most people don't know what they're paying for. Same for computers could be said. Thank you for your knowledge.....
To receive decades of information from some one free of cost is amazing.Being in electronics for ever I can remember when there was no were to find answers was trail and error this is priceless.Can you do video on 12 volt system like JL to speakers subs and there amps.
Sir! I've listened to audiophile experts for years and I know when someone knows what they are talking about. I have no tolerance for snake oil and You Are the Best at cutting through the Snake Oil! I MUST Subscribe to your CZcams channel. SHALOM!
@Albert Jennings I agree he is one of the best "Snake Oil Salesmen" out there. Love his techno mumbo jumbo like "smear". 🤣 I would love for him to tell me how to measure it and at what levels are considered good, bad, acceptable "smear".
Low sales = higher msrp - so more profit margins on less units sold - They’re looking to score big on the high end I don’t blame them if a few people are willing to spend -that’s the American way -free enterprise man
@@jamesrobinson9176 not out touch just giving a reason for the crazy prices on hi end as there’s still great value on mid fi products --I know the business -musical instrument manufactures are going this route -China made less expensive and US ,euro -MIJ ( very high labor rates not just parts $ as Danny always brings up but labor rates )will be very expensive and more exclusive as less and less people are purchasing new hi end goods Stereo manufactures most of which are basically small Businesses in scale may be out of touch to a certain degree as unlike a phone or tv computer a stereo is not a real world item anymore, but they have to sell product and make moolah to obviously stay in biz
While I absolutely respect speaker builders and the incredible efforts from the audiophile community to achieve better quality, I do feel there is a huge market in “audio grade” components, cables etc and a lot of incentive to sell to the community. So while it’s interesting to hear opinions from experts, I am yet to be convinced that components that measure the same would have any difference to our ears.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'll take you up on that. Will you perform a blind test on camera here to show your ability to discern difference in crossover capacitors? It will be a simple test, you only need to listen and write down your answers, I'll do the rest. The results will be shown in the same video. I think it would be prudent to do an analysis of networks with measurements first to show any electrical differences, then the blind test to see if there is a difference in signal then how audible is it. What say you? Would you do this test on camera?
@@glengatt3941 I wish it were true that none of this made any difference. It would make my job infinitely easier, and far more predictable. Unfortunately for pretenders to the throne, EVERYTHING done in an audio component makes a difference to varying degrees. The difference between a true master of the art, and the hobbyist is the true understanding and experience that comes from spending DECADES of your life perfecting the craft of creating the fine instruments we refer to broadly as “ High End” audio.
Very good material. This is all true and I often tell our company's clients. Crossover parts have a great influence on the sound of a stereo system . Best Regards Wilk-Audio-Projekt
I experimented with my crossovers for years and not only learned a lot, but increased the quality of sound; however, when I converted my speakers to an active crossover... it was then I started hearing what I wanted.
I'm going up to that next level right now. Migraine just kicked in, and thus I now have partial loss of vision. It started just after the beginning of watching this video. Fortunately that is as far as it goes these days at 66 years old. Back when it first hit me long long ago, it caused a nasty headache, paralysis of my right arm, loss of speech, and numbness on the right side of my upper lip. Scared the heck out of me. Anyhow, after fixing all the 22 Faders in my 45 year old Soundcraftsmen PE2217 Preamp - Equalizer, I am trying to find out how I can use equipment to set things as best as possible while using my home made 1978 huge speakers. Well, that is as far as I can get, I can just barely read my text at this moment. Thank goodness for auto spell check.
I really appreciate your channel, just can't shake the feeling that your speaker upgrades must also involve upgrading parts and wiring in amps and other devices in the signal path meaning that it is in fact a never ending road with our passionate hobby 😁
Thanks for such an informative video! I bet I learned FAR more useful information about crossovers by watching your video than I have learned reading 3 months worth of reading. Again, thank you!
Hi there Danny. Many thanks. I'm just getting back into building a system, for the first time in many years. Before I begin, I'm repairing the old stuff I have. Just to see what's going on. A/B test. Now there is a DAC, streaming audio, and power supply EMI/RF, isolation. Plus 1 value in some column if there is an imaginary tracking system for that 'stuff.' Anyway, I have ototoxic hearing loss. Building a system anyway, starting with repairing the old things I have. I cannot predict what I can be able to hear. Technics 'new class A' and the first speakers to use are Magnat 144 series. Thanks again. Ohm L2s crossover boards are being redone, you have helped me a bit. As much as anyone, Kent Larson has a 2 minute video demonstrating inductors and capacitors in a signal.
Love the Description and Explanation of each components function in the Crossover. I've used Capacitors in parallel (As you have) in a speaker crossover. However, I'm still ironically confused as to what exactly what application you would use a Bypass Capacitor in the crossover. Is it more beneficial for the Tweeters? That's one thing I haven't seen in any vintage speakers I've worked on.
Excellent discussion. I used to sell those Usher Be-718's BTW. Then someone from Usher told a customer by my store, to go into my store and listen to them, then call him and he'd give them a better price than we could. So that was the day I stopped selling Usher. Manufacturers turning on their retailers is running rampant right now, especially in the days of Covid. They're using us for the showroom experience, then they're selling direct to the customer. Many are even withholding inventory to their dealers but showing it in-stock online on their websites, so they get the sale, and we don't. It's sad. Anyway, I want to design a speaker with top-notch parts like you've got here because I know it makes a difference. Also, I've got JBL K2 S9900's now in my personal reference system. You've got me wondering what parts they used in the crossover. Hmm.
I would like to see a comparison. I would like to see how a crossover with cheap components compares to a expensive crossover with the same values just better quality components. I would like to see how it affects the sound. Keep the videos coming. I never miss them
David Frazier best way to find out is to do it yourself (been down that path plenty of times) used duelland caps for my power supply for the clock in a cd player transport
Buy a used set of speakers, pull it open, replace the components for the midlevel stuff shown here for 50 bucks or so and go to town listning to stuff. It will give you all the snsweres you are searching for.
There are more values to a cap and inductor than just the Farad and Henry values like esr, esl for Capacitor esr, epc, epr for inductor. You have to look at the data sheets to see what is best for your application/tune around it. It is very interesting to listen to a person explain that without numbers.
i used to mess around years ago making and doing up loudspeakers but the components and drive units are far to expensive nowadays sadly, a good pair of crossovers will cost hundreds of buck's to thousands in comparison to the standard ones, sad I have built some good ones years ago but cannot afford it anymore, I enjoy your channel and the amazing things you do to mediocre speakers to make them much much better... i am looking for a bit of advice regarding cables/wiring.... what is the best quality type of wiring that i can re-wire my bass's internal wiring with to improve the sound quality, i have fitted a Benedict Polypropylene cap in the tone circuit, i use slightly heavier gauge internal wiring 20 - 22awg as apposed to 24awg standard, also silver plated OFC but what type of exterior jacket material makes the best cable for the internal wiring of a bass guitar... it's all wired with single multicore 24awg cheap quality wiring which strangles the sound.. would using quality OFC larger diameter wire give a better sound/tone ?.. any advice would be gratefully appreciated, thank you...
good explanation of how the parts work, but don't forget to mention that capacitors only pass AC and block DC (as do transformers) which is an important aspect of how valve amplifiers work. (great explanations of that by fellow Texan resident Uncle Doug on his CZcams channel)
1:18 Without waching the whole video i can absolute agree with this statement. There is a big difference between cheap and 'good' parts. But there's also a border when 'high-end' parts become expensive without hearable results. Speaker cables are such a money pit.
Have you done a video on cabinet physics, especially concerning cabinets that are designed to bring out the best audio on set of speakers? Are there speakers are more limited by cabinet design than parts? Really enjoy the channel.
Hi Danny, I am a novice when it comes to speaker technology. However, I love to listen to good quality music. I have a Mac 7900 amp with vintage Altec Lansing 510 speakers. My audio guy recommend me to replace it with Focal Kanta 2 or similar Sonus Fabre models. My questions: can I upgrade my Altecs? The sensitivity is 84db at 6 ohms. Will a new high quality crossover help? Or, should I just change the speakers. Any recommendations on good speakers. I like it warm, good soundstage, good bass and good mid range. Your assistance is highly appreciated. Thanks and regards, Darryl.
Yes parts matter. I am particularly intrigued by the comment made about high purity copper wire vs silver coated Teflon due to its pores state. I use Teflon coated silver clad wire to listen to my speakers. Phase shift in theory is an issue and in some cases (for example bad insulation resistance i.e. too low impedance) But Teflon has excellent resistance and is a very good insulator, but as you said needs the silver cladding to prevent spot welding between multi-strand wires. Inakustik make good wires too. Would it be better to use pure silver to negate this issue? I also like your Polyethylene reference for insulation because this shows your transparency regarding what wire to use and insulation. I really appreciate your video. Thanks.
Danny, Bro! This is an outstanding video. However, I’m listening through my 2-channel with a sub. There is so much rumbling coming through because the microphone is being abused, lol. I work in TV sometimes and build studios and the computers that run them. I also run the audio board and video switcher. You really have to set up a full range live monitor or full range headphone to know what is going out over the air. It can be confusing if you don’t do it right. It can sound like every single thing is being recorded if you have the headphones or monitors setup incorrectly. In your case, you might be having the opposite problem. You might not be hearing all the low frequency noise and so you’re blissfully unaware. Have a listen through hi-fi and you’ll see what I mean. I have the aux output on the spare TV running to the McIntosh MA252 hybrid amp into my HSU Research sub ( the amp has a sub preout built in) and vintage infinity Modulus 90 satellites, as they were called. By the way, they have the same drivers used in the IRS BETA giant sub/sat system. PS Audio just copied the drivers for their new $30K speakers. But I bet you could make them sound better! With the original 12” sub (also borrowed from the IRS BETA), they got a recommendation from Stereophile BITD. Thanks for all the great videos.
First class information. I often choose speakers based on the quality of the components in the crossover. But it is often not worth making changes in the crossover due to the poor quality of the speakers.
Speaker material, coil material and magnet are crucial. If you look at pro level speakers, you get spl’s of 119, 125 or even 135 spl. Crossovers are important for splitting frequencies but a higher spl speaker will require less power and usually have better clarity at lower power. Even better,if the system can have a linear power curve through the EQ section, then clarity is greatly increased over the power range
I did SVS ultra towers and center speaker upgrade from GR research and blow mine mind if you have some many to spare and imagination how to put it together You are a Winner 👍
The problem is that when people can afford high-end speakers, they have reached an age where their ears are no longer able to hear the difference with mid-range speakers... And when they have efficient ears, young, they prefer the sound of the sound speakers at rock concerts or listening to their iPhone. Without objective measurements, old, half-deaf audiophiles remain in the beliefs that lead them to prefer vinyl records, tube amps and speaker cables as big as garden hoses.
Thank you for this clear explanation of the crossover components that is geared toward the layperson or non electrical engineer crowd. Now I feel like I have at least a very basic understanding of how all of these components combine to influence the output of the speaker.
The quality of parts in speakers matters just as much as the quality of parts in anything else you buy...it comes down to reliability, durability and consistency in performance...I work on knives for a living and I see these things play out on a daily basis...if it was all the same, the upgrades market would have failed pretty quickly if people weren't seeing and hearing the difference of the money they spent
I changed tone caps in my guitar amp, and it made a huge difference. Same value components, but different materials. It was substantial enough to convince me not to waste time arguing with deniers. There's no reasoning with them. They will only stare at numbers on a bench, and rigged test that support their claim. They also have unlimited free time for debate, rather than conducting actual experiments. Deniers never get involved in anything that would prove their theory wrong. If they do they blame the results on environmental variables. If that fails they will say that the results weren't substantial enough to justify the expense. Same set of arguments every time. The like to place the burden of proof on someone else. Rather than explaining real world results, they go to the math first. It's bizarre. Ignore them.
This was interesting. I would however like some AB sound tests and/or oscilloscope read-outs to actually show this difference. It would help to visualize impact using different types of parts
Looks like you are starting to ruffle some feathers Danny, asked a famous reviewer to show us the crossover & after a bit of waffle, I think the answer was NO!, In fact , I think he would like you to provide audio samples of before & after, to prove that upgrading parts actually improves the sound of a speaker. It would seem taking the top off an amplifier to have a look is fine but not speakers!, You wouldn't buy a car without having a look under the bonnet... I am going to keep asking the question, I hope others do as well, if the crossover is built to the same standard as the rest of a speaker, then why not show it, regardless of budget, keep up the good work👍
When making a system, is there a need for anything more than a protection capacitor on the tweeter if running active? Is it worth considering ditching the passive crossover completely, or is there an extent to which I should keep passive components in an active system? Thanks for all the great videos!
Hi Danny. Let's say I'm running 25' lengths of speaker wire... should I use 10g multi strand or single solid strand oxy-free copper in poly wire? Thanks. Awesome vid and info!!!
It'd be very cool to see a few crossover designs, using varying price points of components.. then review and abx test and see what is thought to be best. Really nice info here, thanks for taking the time to share.
This is really cool, and it sounds like a lot of this could be demonstrated with some measuring tools like an oscilloscope or multi meter. Would be interesting to see the difference.
To even see 1% THD on a sine wave is really tough to see on an oscilloscope. Distortion is a change in shape of the frequency. Here is a little secret about the universe, the Fourier theorem. Any signal, no matter how complex the shape is nothing more than the sum of multiple sine waves of different frequencies. Most distortion analyzers can measure something a million times smaller than the original signal (-120db) while some better equipment can go to 10 million times small (-140db). For example .01% second harmonic distortion is present, what does that mean. Well if we are measuring 1kHz sine wave, then that means that at the output there is not only 1kHz but also now 2kHz but -60db below the 1kHz input signal. If you know your maths that's a difference of 1000. So that means at the output we can have 1000v at 1khz and 1v of 2kHz added together. Do you really think if something 1000 times smaller is going to be audible? Most likely not but -60d isn't really a great number in regard to fidelity, your typical DAC is reaching -120db easily now which is a million times smaller. We have the ability to measure very small differences in signal shape. Beyond measuring the difference in shape of a signal then we can also measure the difference in amplitude (peak potential), difference in phase (time difference between input/output). If the signal itself hasn't changed, which we can easily measure then there can be zero audible change. So when this fool is saying okay we measure no change but there is still an audible change, it's BS. When he makes a statement of "we don't know how to measure the correct things" that only means he has no idea what he is measuring and he also has no clue about electronics in a serious educational sense; e.g. he is a hack to the highest degree and take what he says with a grain of salt or else you will empty your wallet for nothing while making his wallet fatter. To give him credit, I don't know how or what he measured, if he is just looking at an oscilloscope screen it's not going to tell you very much because it's not accurate enough to notice even a 1% distortion, it still looks like a nice clean sine wave. He needs at the very least a distortion analyzer good down to at least -100db to be even meaningful. At -100db most things are considered not audible because it's such a small difference being 100,000 times smaller. If he used a distortion analyzer and did a few other tests he could definitively say if there is an audible difference or not. Instead he just hand waves like a prophet from god and states what he says as gospel when it's truly garbage.
Some measuring tools LOL. What you gonna see, some numbers on a display and /or a bouncing line on a screen. Good luck interpreting even an enormous difference on those. If you are able to interpret anything at all.
I'd love to see you tear apart the classic Z-5500 Logitech to see what you can do...They can be had for under 300$ for a full 5.1 system and to many sound very good, they seem to have a good amount of decent parts, but also a lot of room to upgrade.
Thank you for splaining about the finer points of parts quality . Every video I watch makes me feel more confident that I will be able to build my own speakers . After leaving this comment I’m going to your website to look for a project. Thanks again 👍👍
Great video, Danny. I'm rebuilding the crossovers from scratch in my Altec A7-800 VOTT Valencia speakers. I'll be raising the crossover point from 800 Hz to 1.2 kHz like the Model 19 of that era (1974+) Any advice on parts sources? I'm in Canada and am looking for decent Canadian suppliers so I can avoid excessive duty. Many thanks!!!
Interesting video. Only thing I struggle to wrap my head around is at what point is it better to get a better speaker with better drivers. Like yeah for a lot of people sending in their speakers they already own making them sound as good as possible within reason makes sense but in the situation where you're looking to buy speakers that you eventually plan to upgrade at what point does having the better driver make more of a difference. Like lets say you have a $500 budget, spending $100 on speaker and $400 on upgrades I would imagine would be worse than a $300 speaker with $200 of upgrades or $400 with $100 on upgrades assuming all speakers are reasonably well designed within their price target. Second questions is what makes more of a difference between parts and where they are assuming your upgrade isn't changing the design. Like lets say you have a $200 upgrade budget is it better to stack upgrades on one part like high end parts on tweeter and midrange parts on the woofer or upper midrange on both, etc. Also is there any difference in longevity these days with parts? For example I know older crossover parts can go out of spec or dry up so is it possible that might be the reason some parts are used over others?
I suppose it's going to come down to the speaker you are upgrading . Some may have great drivers and bad parts. Some may have bad drivers and parts . The crossover parts seem to be more expensive. Look at the xls encore the woofer is 30 and the tweeter is 50 . Not expensive but great drivers. You could spend hundreds even more on a crossover. The better drivers will insure there are less parts in the design which will result in a cheaper crossover in the long run.
@@toecutterjenkins Very true. Definitely a lot of variables especially considering a lot of the speakers that come through aren't designed as well as they could (rp600m comes to mind). I guess I'm just thinking when as many variables are proportionally even as possible, where are the high value parts. I guess thinking of it from a diy sense is better but if I put all my money into one side of the puzzle be it drivers or crossover parts where an I getting a better return on my money.
@@TylerStout I have encores and for the price I don't think you can go wrong as a starting point. Especially if you have the skill to build the boxes yourself. I used 4 pieces of 1x12x48" mdf shelving from HD the cost less than 4 bucks each.
Hey!!! Short question: What capacitor (or other circuit components) can you recommend for subsonic filtering in the crossover. Mostly for protection of the woofer against Low Frequency bumps, e.g. caused by vinyl record player when needle lands on the vinyl.....
This is more of a phono preamp/integrated issue, it's best not to add complexity to a speaker crossover for it and instead seek out a preamp with that kind of feature.
I am 71 yrs old and wish I was young again, with good hearing and time to tinker with my 7 year old Diamond 10.4, Cayin EL-34 tube amp and Marantz cd-6004 which are in my spacious bedroom. I have mild hearing loss in both ears, lower midrange in the left and higher midrange on the right. Yet, I am happy with the smooth, seemingly clear sounds as I think my brain helps to balance what I'm hearing. I enjoy your program and appreciate all you do. My speakers can go down to 38hz and can feel them specially in Saint Saens Organ concerto.
Best explanation out there yet, in layman’s terms of what parts inside a crossover do and differences in quality. Thank Danny.
Sure but this is just a guy saying some stuff is better than other stuff without any actual evidence.
This video would have been so much better if he'd just measure the same crossover output with a cheap / small coild and again with an expensive coil.
Right now it's just "You know, some stuff is better then others, better buy THIS stuff because, well, I say so".
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy I ordered from GR and have it in my mid-fi gear and it sounds great. Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. And maybe you will see what he talking about 🙂
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy He already did that in another video. They measure the same but sound different. Which means the type of measurement that's usually done doesn't measure the type of difference that is heard.
Two cars with 300bhp might not do a 1/4 mile in the same amount of time. Are you going to say that because they "measure" the same, they are going to perform the same?
Air wound inductors. If you want layman's terms , it's just thick copper wire wound into a coil ( you could wrap it around your finger). Simple as. It's just a feedback effect. The magnetic field from one coil interacting with the coil next to it and " chocking" high frequencies. There's nothing layman in any of this it's just Physics at its root.
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy Yes, that is the nature of audiophoolery.
24:00 is possibly the greatest disdain ever displayed against pvc. Love you, man.
Noice. Now if only this video had measurements to show actual differences instead of a guy just sighing at things. :-P
Danny, love your videos. I bought my first stereo in 1970 when I was in the USAF. Everyone in the barracks was buying stereos despite the fact that we were only getting paid about $200 per month. Some of the guys who had been stationed in Vietnam came back with very high end stereos, cameras and other equipment. It was kind of crazy but that's what bored 19-22 year old single guys spent their money on. My first speakers were AR-5s which cost $175 each. My first receiver was the Heathkit AR-15 which I think cost about $300. I used them until 1995 when the woofer cone cracked. Since then I have purchased many other speakers without really understanding the specifications. In the last few weeks I have learned more from your you-tube videos than l learned during all those years.
If I could make a suggestion; it would help me follow the discussion if you could use an electronic pointer when discussing the performance graphs. I would also help if you define what the axes represent on each of graphs. Thanks, keep up the great work.
i never doubt my crossovers more than the day i started watching this channel... Darn now i know it can be much better !!
I don't normally leave comments, but this is one great video man.. All of your points 100%, and the bypass cap trick is a great take away. Thanks.
Great video!
I enjoyed all the clear cut info and it's great I can come back and watch it again! 👍😉
Great informative info thks Danny
This video finally put everything I could hear into perspective. This is absolutely the best crossover video I've ever seen. Thank you!
If someone says parts don't matter, they haven't built a guitar amp or crossover or anything. Some things don't sound as drastic but everything has its own personality going on pretty much to different degrees
Now I finally understand why the cost of parts make can difference.
Wow you continue to impress with your knowledge and willingness to share it. You're a gem!
Many thanks for your video!
Great great stuff! Thanks!
Thank you for sharing this knowledge. You really know your stuff.
Havent been checkin YT too much lately, lovin the production quality upgrades Danny!
Fascinating content.
Great explanation!
Thank you for creating and posting.
I haven't built anything as of yet, but I'm learning a lot from your videos on this subject.. It's very interesting to learn of the quality or bad quality of components inside of a speaker. Most people don't know what they're paying for. Same for computers could be said. Thank you for your knowledge.....
thanks. very informative.
Wow! I'm a fan. Thank you for this channel. I've always wanted to know more about the solid-state components from another perspective. Thank you
To receive decades of information from some one free of cost is amazing.Being in electronics for ever I can remember when there was no were to find answers was trail and error this is priceless.Can you do video on 12 volt system like JL to speakers subs and there amps.
Great video and explanation 👍
Sir! I've listened to audiophile experts for years and I know when someone knows what they are talking about. I have no tolerance for snake oil and You Are the Best at cutting through the Snake Oil! I MUST Subscribe to your CZcams channel. SHALOM!
@Albert Jennings I agree he is one of the best "Snake Oil Salesmen" out there. Love his techno mumbo jumbo like "smear". 🤣 I would love for him to tell me how to measure it and at what levels are considered good, bad, acceptable "smear".
So many of thee brands have raised their prices beyond what's reasonable
To Insanity!!😠😠😠😠😠😎😎
Low sales = higher msrp - so more profit margins on less units sold - They’re looking to score
big on the high end I don’t blame them if a few people are willing to spend -that’s the American way -free enterprise man
@@5Antvin I sure hope that was sarcasm, you're completely out of touch
@@jamesrobinson9176 not out touch just giving a reason for the crazy prices on hi end as there’s still great value on mid fi products --I know the business -musical instrument manufactures are going this route -China made less expensive and US ,euro -MIJ ( very high labor rates not just parts $ as Danny always brings up but labor rates )will be very expensive and more exclusive as less and less people are purchasing new hi end goods
Stereo manufactures most of which are basically small
Businesses in scale may be out of touch to a certain degree as unlike a phone or tv computer a stereo is not a real world item anymore, but they have to sell product and make moolah to obviously stay in biz
While I absolutely respect speaker builders and the incredible efforts from the audiophile community to achieve better quality, I do feel there is a huge market in “audio grade” components, cables etc and a lot of incentive to sell to the community. So while it’s interesting to hear opinions from experts, I am yet to be convinced that components that measure the same would have any difference to our ears.
Come on over. I'll convince you easily by just letting you listen.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'll take you up on that. Will you perform a blind test on camera here to show your ability to discern difference in crossover capacitors? It will be a simple test, you only need to listen and write down your answers, I'll do the rest. The results will be shown in the same video. I think it would be prudent to do an analysis of networks with measurements first to show any electrical differences, then the blind test to see if there is a difference in signal then how audible is it.
What say you? Would you do this test on camera?
@@captainbeefheart8797 Sure, come on down.
@@glengatt3941 I wish it were true that none of this made any difference. It would make my job infinitely easier, and far more predictable. Unfortunately for pretenders to the throne, EVERYTHING done in an audio component makes a difference to varying degrees. The difference between a true master of the art, and the hobbyist is the true understanding and experience that comes from spending DECADES of your life perfecting the craft of creating the fine instruments we refer to broadly as “ High End” audio.
This microfarad is faster than that microfarad. End of discussion.
Very interesting insight…. thank you for posting…
KCB🙂🇬🇧👍
So helpful!! Thank you
Incredible ability to teach.
Thank you
Very good material. This is all true and I often tell our company's clients. Crossover parts have a great influence on the sound of a stereo system . Best Regards Wilk-Audio-Projekt
I experimented with my crossovers for years and not only learned a lot, but increased the quality of sound; however, when I converted my speakers to an active crossover... it was then I started hearing what I wanted.
Are you talking analog or digital active cross-overs?
@@kawmic7 I am using a DBX Drive Rack Pa2, between the preamp and the amplifiers.
@@russmaleartist so digital.
you probably didn't use $600 capasitors the size of coke cans :D
@@russmaleartist DBX Drive Rack Pa2 that's not even low end HiFi grade, it's a PA system component.
I’ve learnt so much watching these videos thank you
I'm going up to that next level right now. Migraine just kicked in, and thus I now have partial loss of vision. It started just after the beginning of watching this video. Fortunately that is as far as it goes these days at 66 years old. Back when it first hit me long long ago, it caused a nasty headache, paralysis of my right arm, loss of speech, and numbness on the right side of my upper lip. Scared the heck out of me. Anyhow, after fixing all the 22 Faders in my 45 year old Soundcraftsmen PE2217 Preamp - Equalizer, I am trying to find out how I can use equipment to set things as best as possible while using my home made 1978 huge speakers. Well, that is as far as I can get, I can just barely read my text at this moment. Thank goodness for auto spell check.
Thank you for keeping it simple Danny.
An enlightening, and thorough lecture, and demonstration on electronic parts, and design.🔉🎵🎶
Very great video
Fantastic video - subscribed
Thanks Danny, super helpful
Thank you very much. This was spot-on education.
I really appreciate your channel, just can't shake the feeling that your speaker upgrades must also involve upgrading parts and wiring in amps and other devices in the signal path meaning that it is in fact a never ending road with our passionate hobby 😁
Just stumbled on this site, great video, very clear explanations. Subscribed.
One of if not the most informative video I've ever seen, I now know I won't skimp with my Scan-Speak drivers
Thanks for such an informative video! I bet I learned FAR more useful information about crossovers by watching your video than I have learned reading 3 months worth of reading. Again, thank you!
Finally ,a guy that is relatable too.
Plain English explanations.
Thank you.
Exellent! Couldn't be explained better.
Hi there Danny. Many thanks. I'm just getting back into building a system, for the first time in many years. Before I begin, I'm repairing the old stuff I have. Just to see what's going on. A/B test. Now there is a DAC, streaming audio, and power supply EMI/RF, isolation. Plus 1 value in some column if there is an imaginary tracking system for that 'stuff.' Anyway, I have ototoxic hearing loss. Building a system anyway, starting with repairing the old things I have. I cannot predict what I can be able to hear. Technics 'new class A' and the first speakers to use are Magnat 144 series. Thanks again. Ohm L2s crossover boards are being redone, you have helped me a bit. As much as anyone, Kent Larson has a 2 minute video demonstrating inductors and capacitors in a signal.
Ty for the information
Good video, helped understand value of each part.
Love the Description and Explanation of each components function in the Crossover.
I've used Capacitors in parallel (As you have) in a speaker crossover. However, I'm still ironically confused as to what exactly what application you would use a Bypass Capacitor in the crossover. Is it more beneficial for the Tweeters?
That's one thing I haven't seen in any vintage speakers I've worked on.
Excellent discussion. I used to sell those Usher Be-718's BTW. Then someone from Usher told a customer by my store, to go into my store and listen to them, then call him and he'd give them a better price than we could. So that was the day I stopped selling Usher. Manufacturers turning on their retailers is running rampant right now, especially in the days of Covid. They're using us for the showroom experience, then they're selling direct to the customer. Many are even withholding inventory to their dealers but showing it in-stock online on their websites, so they get the sale, and we don't. It's sad. Anyway, I want to design a speaker with top-notch parts like you've got here because I know it makes a difference. Also, I've got JBL K2 S9900's now in my personal reference system. You've got me wondering what parts they used in the crossover. Hmm.
I would like to see a comparison. I would like to see how a crossover with cheap components compares to a expensive crossover with the same values just better quality components. I would like to see how it affects the sound. Keep the videos coming. I never miss them
Here you go: czcams.com/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/video.html
You can learn about our accessories. Erse brand😆
David Frazier best way to find out is to do it yourself (been down that path plenty of times) used duelland caps for my power supply for the clock in a cd player transport
Buy a used set of speakers, pull it open, replace the components for the midlevel stuff shown here for 50 bucks or so and go to town listning to stuff.
It will give you all the snsweres you are searching for.
There are more values to a cap and inductor than just the Farad and Henry values like esr, esl for Capacitor esr, epc, epr for inductor. You have to look at the data sheets to see what is best for your application/tune around it.
It is very interesting to listen to a person explain that without numbers.
i used to mess around years ago making and doing up loudspeakers but the components and drive units are far to expensive nowadays sadly, a good pair of crossovers will cost hundreds of buck's to thousands in comparison to the standard ones, sad I have built some good ones years ago but cannot afford it anymore, I enjoy your channel and the amazing things you do to mediocre speakers to make them much much better... i am looking for a bit of advice regarding cables/wiring.... what is the best quality type of wiring that i can re-wire my bass's internal wiring with to improve the sound quality, i have fitted a Benedict Polypropylene cap in the tone circuit, i use slightly heavier gauge internal wiring 20 - 22awg as apposed to 24awg standard, also silver plated OFC but what type of exterior jacket material makes the best cable for the internal wiring of a bass guitar... it's all wired with single multicore 24awg cheap quality wiring which strangles the sound.. would using quality OFC larger diameter wire give a better sound/tone ?.. any advice would be gratefully appreciated, thank you...
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have tried preaching this till I am blue in the face. Now I can point people to this video and say watch this.
Best explanation of component role on speaker quality I have heard.
excellent!!!
Very interesting
I have enough high-end hearing loss that I doubt I'd be able to justify paying for really great speakers.
Than you Danny for an informative video. It has helped my understand heaps
good explanation of how the parts work, but don't forget to mention that capacitors only pass AC and block DC (as do transformers) which is an important aspect of how valve amplifiers work. (great explanations of that by fellow Texan resident Uncle Doug on his CZcams channel)
1:18 Without waching the whole video i can absolute agree with this statement. There is a big difference between cheap and 'good' parts. But there's also a border when 'high-end' parts become expensive without hearable results. Speaker cables are such a money pit.
Génial. Ceux sont de très bons crossovers. Bravo l’artiste.
Have you done a video on cabinet physics, especially concerning cabinets that are designed to bring out the best audio on set of speakers? Are there speakers are more limited by cabinet design than parts? Really enjoy the channel.
Danny talks about this topic a lot, just watch his content. A great place to start would be his 4-part on open baffle basics.
Hi Danny, I am a novice when it comes to speaker technology. However, I love to listen to good quality music. I have a Mac 7900 amp with vintage Altec Lansing 510 speakers. My audio guy recommend me to replace it with Focal Kanta 2 or similar Sonus Fabre models.
My questions: can I upgrade my Altecs? The sensitivity is 84db at 6 ohms. Will a new high quality crossover help? Or, should I just change the speakers. Any recommendations on good speakers. I like it warm, good soundstage, good bass and good mid range.
Your assistance is highly appreciated.
Thanks and regards, Darryl.
Yes parts matter. I am particularly intrigued by the comment made about high purity copper wire vs silver coated Teflon due to its pores state. I use Teflon coated silver clad wire to listen to my speakers. Phase shift in theory is an issue and in some cases (for example bad insulation resistance i.e. too low impedance) But Teflon has excellent resistance and is a very good insulator, but as you said needs the silver cladding to prevent spot welding between multi-strand wires. Inakustik make good wires too. Would it be better to use pure silver to negate this issue? I also like your Polyethylene reference for insulation because this shows your transparency regarding what wire to use and insulation. I really appreciate your video. Thanks.
Wow what an eye opener
Danny, Bro! This is an outstanding video. However, I’m listening through my 2-channel with a sub. There is so much rumbling coming through because the microphone is being abused, lol. I work in TV sometimes and build studios and the computers that run them. I also run the audio board and video switcher. You really have to set up a full range live monitor or full range headphone to know what is going out over the air. It can be confusing if you don’t do it right. It can sound like every single thing is being recorded if you have the headphones or monitors setup incorrectly. In your case, you might be having the opposite problem. You might not be hearing all the low frequency noise and so you’re blissfully unaware. Have a listen through hi-fi and you’ll see what I mean. I have the aux output on the spare TV running to the McIntosh MA252 hybrid amp into my HSU Research sub ( the amp has a sub preout built in) and vintage infinity Modulus 90 satellites, as they were called. By the way, they have the same drivers used in the IRS BETA giant sub/sat system. PS Audio just copied the drivers for their new $30K speakers. But I bet you could make them sound better! With the original 12” sub (also borrowed from the IRS BETA), they got a recommendation from Stereophile BITD. Thanks for all the great videos.
First class information. I often choose speakers based on the quality of the components in the crossover. But it is often not worth making changes in the crossover due to the poor quality of the speakers.
I need a kit for my Polk Audio LSiM 705's!! I'd love to see what you can do for them
Speaker material, coil material and magnet are crucial. If you look at pro level speakers, you get spl’s of 119, 125 or even 135 spl.
Crossovers are important for splitting frequencies but a higher spl speaker will require less power and usually have better clarity at lower power.
Even better,if the system can have a linear power curve through the EQ section, then clarity is greatly increased over the power range
I did SVS ultra towers and center speaker upgrade from GR research and blow mine mind if you have some many to spare and imagination how to put it together You are a Winner 👍
A much needed video for many of us, I imagine. Thanks so much for posting.
The problem is that when people can afford high-end speakers, they have reached an age where their ears are no longer able to hear the difference with mid-range speakers...
And when they have efficient ears, young, they prefer the sound of the sound speakers at rock concerts or listening to their iPhone.
Without objective measurements, old, half-deaf audiophiles remain in the beliefs that lead them to prefer vinyl records, tube amps and speaker cables as big as garden hoses.
Thanks!
Thank you for this clear explanation of the crossover components that is geared toward the layperson or non electrical engineer crowd. Now I feel like I have at least a very basic understanding of how all of these components combine to influence the output of the speaker.
The quality of parts in speakers matters just as much as the quality of parts in anything else you buy...it comes down to reliability, durability and consistency in performance...I work on knives for a living and I see these things play out on a daily basis...if it was all the same, the upgrades market would have failed pretty quickly if people weren't seeing and hearing the difference of the money they spent
I changed tone caps in my guitar amp, and it made a huge difference. Same value components, but different materials. It was substantial enough to convince me not to waste time arguing with deniers. There's no reasoning with them. They will only stare at numbers on a bench, and rigged test that support their claim. They also have unlimited free time for debate, rather than conducting actual experiments. Deniers never get involved in anything that would prove their theory wrong. If they do they blame the results on environmental variables. If that fails they will say that the results weren't substantial enough to justify the expense. Same set of arguments every time. The like to place the burden of proof on someone else. Rather than explaining real world results, they go to the math first. It's bizarre. Ignore them.
Diminishing returns while chasing impossible perfection is asinine and does nothing but stroke egos.
This was interesting. I would however like some AB sound tests and/or oscilloscope read-outs to actually show this difference. It would help to visualize impact using different types of parts
Looks like you are starting to ruffle some feathers Danny, asked a famous reviewer to show us the crossover & after a bit of waffle, I think the answer was NO!, In fact , I think he would like you to provide audio samples of before & after, to prove that upgrading parts actually improves the sound of a speaker. It would seem taking the top off an amplifier to have a look is fine but not speakers!, You wouldn't buy a car without having a look under the bonnet... I am going to keep asking the question, I hope others do as well, if the crossover is built to the same standard as the rest of a speaker, then why not show it, regardless of budget, keep up the good work👍
Wow! Thank you. I learned a lot on this video.. I have started saving money for my GR Kit, what increases cost is international shipping.
Thank-you for your time and effort Danny!
Great overview! Thanks for the education.
When making a system, is there a need for anything more than a protection capacitor on the tweeter if running active? Is it worth considering ditching the passive crossover completely, or is there an extent to which I should keep passive components in an active system? Thanks for all the great videos!
Hi Danny. Let's say I'm running 25' lengths of speaker wire... should I use 10g multi strand or single solid strand oxy-free copper in poly wire? Thanks. Awesome vid and info!!!
A detailed, easy to understand video on a quite complicated matter. Well done. Thank you for your efforts to educate us.
It'd be very cool to see a few crossover designs, using varying price points of components.. then review and abx test and see what is thought to be best. Really nice info here, thanks for taking the time to share.
Been there, done that, and shot a video on it: czcams.com/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/video.html
Some measurements of how the frequency response, harmonic distortion and time delay changes would be cool too.
This is really cool, and it sounds like a lot of this could be demonstrated with some measuring tools like an oscilloscope or multi meter. Would be interesting to see the difference.
To even see 1% THD on a sine wave is really tough to see on an oscilloscope. Distortion is a change in shape of the frequency. Here is a little secret about the universe, the Fourier theorem. Any signal, no matter how complex the shape is nothing more than the sum of multiple sine waves of different frequencies. Most distortion analyzers can measure something a million times smaller than the original signal (-120db) while some better equipment can go to 10 million times small (-140db). For example .01% second harmonic distortion is present, what does that mean. Well if we are measuring 1kHz sine wave, then that means that at the output there is not only 1kHz but also now 2kHz but -60db below the 1kHz input signal. If you know your maths that's a difference of 1000. So that means at the output we can have 1000v at 1khz and 1v of 2kHz added together. Do you really think if something 1000 times smaller is going to be audible? Most likely not but -60d isn't really a great number in regard to fidelity, your typical DAC is reaching -120db easily now which is a million times smaller. We have the ability to measure very small differences in signal shape. Beyond measuring the difference in shape of a signal then we can also measure the difference in amplitude (peak potential), difference in phase (time difference between input/output). If the signal itself hasn't changed, which we can easily measure then there can be zero audible change. So when this fool is saying okay we measure no change but there is still an audible change, it's BS. When he makes a statement of "we don't know how to measure the correct things" that only means he has no idea what he is measuring and he also has no clue about electronics in a serious educational sense; e.g. he is a hack to the highest degree and take what he says with a grain of salt or else you will empty your wallet for nothing while making his wallet fatter. To give him credit, I don't know how or what he measured, if he is just looking at an oscilloscope screen it's not going to tell you very much because it's not accurate enough to notice even a 1% distortion, it still looks like a nice clean sine wave. He needs at the very least a distortion analyzer good down to at least -100db to be even meaningful. At -100db most things are considered not audible because it's such a small difference being 100,000 times smaller. If he used a distortion analyzer and did a few other tests he could definitively say if there is an audible difference or not. Instead he just hand waves like a prophet from god and states what he says as gospel when it's truly garbage.
@@captainbeefheart8797 most comprehensive reply I've read all week
Some measuring tools LOL.
What you gonna see, some numbers on a display and /or a bouncing line on a screen.
Good luck interpreting even an enormous difference on those.
If you are able to interpret anything at all.
never gonna happen, welcome to GR research.
@@captainbeefheart8797 if an oscilloscope cant measure the difference, how could i hear the difference?
Good discussion Danny, a lot of good points made. Great video for all DIY’ers to watch.
Love this guy
I'd love to see you tear apart the classic Z-5500 Logitech to see what you can do...They can be had for under 300$ for a full 5.1 system and to many sound very good, they seem to have a good amount of decent parts, but also a lot of room to upgrade.
Thanks for the video, really helpful!
Amazing information! Thanks Danny.
I'm loving this content. Informative and fascinating. I've watched this multiple times already. Danny always explains things so satisfyingly simple.
How’s retirement treating you?
Thank you for splaining about the finer points of parts quality . Every video I watch makes me feel more confident that I will be able to build my own speakers . After leaving this comment I’m going to your website to look for a project. Thanks again 👍👍
For a 1st order 80hz high pass, does it matter which capacitor I choose? Will a cheap Bennic capacitor smear the signal?
Question: What kind of stereo systems do I have to have, so I can hear the difference of upgraded speakers. I have Denon dm-41
Great video, Danny. I'm rebuilding the crossovers from scratch in my Altec A7-800 VOTT Valencia speakers. I'll be raising the crossover point from 800 Hz to 1.2 kHz like the Model 19 of that era (1974+) Any advice on parts sources? I'm in Canada and am looking for decent Canadian suppliers so I can avoid excessive duty. Many thanks!!!
I wish you would do something like this for power amps and pre amps
Interesting video. Only thing I struggle to wrap my head around is at what point is it better to get a better speaker with better drivers. Like yeah for a lot of people sending in their speakers they already own making them sound as good as possible within reason makes sense but in the situation where you're looking to buy speakers that you eventually plan to upgrade at what point does having the better driver make more of a difference. Like lets say you have a $500 budget, spending $100 on speaker and $400 on upgrades I would imagine would be worse than a $300 speaker with $200 of upgrades or $400 with $100 on upgrades assuming all speakers are reasonably well designed within their price target.
Second questions is what makes more of a difference between parts and where they are assuming your upgrade isn't changing the design. Like lets say you have a $200 upgrade budget is it better to stack upgrades on one part like high end parts on tweeter and midrange parts on the woofer or upper midrange on both, etc.
Also is there any difference in longevity these days with parts? For example I know older crossover parts can go out of spec or dry up so is it possible that might be the reason some parts are used over others?
I suppose it's going to come down to the speaker you are upgrading . Some may have great drivers and bad parts. Some may have bad drivers and parts .
The crossover parts seem to be more expensive. Look at the xls encore the woofer is 30 and the tweeter is 50 . Not expensive but great drivers. You could spend hundreds even more on a crossover. The better drivers will insure there are less parts in the design which will result in a cheaper crossover in the long run.
@@toecutterjenkins Very true. Definitely a lot of variables especially considering a lot of the speakers that come through aren't designed as well as they could (rp600m comes to mind). I guess I'm just thinking when as many variables are proportionally even as possible, where are the high value parts. I guess thinking of it from a diy sense is better but if I put all my money into one side of the puzzle be it drivers or crossover parts where an I getting a better return on my money.
@@TylerStout I have encores and for the price I don't think you can go wrong as a starting point. Especially if you have the skill to build the boxes yourself. I used 4 pieces of 1x12x48" mdf shelving from HD the cost less than 4 bucks each.
Hey!!! Short question: What capacitor (or other circuit components) can you recommend for subsonic filtering in the crossover. Mostly for protection of the woofer against Low Frequency bumps, e.g. caused by vinyl record player when needle lands on the vinyl.....
This is more of a phono preamp/integrated issue, it's best not to add complexity to a speaker crossover for it and instead seek out a preamp with that kind of feature.
More great information, Thank you for all the effort and education Danny
Thank you for the knowledge.Can you make a guide for for different budget amplifiers starting from 2000$