I work at a large big box store. Recently I noticed a new employee cutting pressure-treated lumber for a customer. I waited until the customer walked away and asked the employee why he wasn't wearing a dust mask. He told me that it wasn't brought up in his training. I poke to a supervisor and he was clueless about the issue but promised to put a box of masks by the saw. That never happened nor as far as I can find out is it company policy to wear one. I plan to press this issue with the safety committee but I'm pretty shocked there's no policy in place. Big companies are always spouting off on how important employee safety is but since they are self-insured I'm convinced they are only concerned with injuries and not health issues. I'll let you know how I make out.
Sadly no updates. Called the company hotline and got an 'oh my gosh we need to look into this' response. Knew it was dead in the water then. But I'll keep trying
I like the redwood pixie dust you find in HD, under the fake cedar/redwood decking. I would yell "FOUR" through the intercom before cutting a strapped bundle of this twisty stuff!
I know there are definitely some harsh chemical in construction, deep. What do you think about the old arsenic? Extremely toxic? Or only in very high concentrations?
@@TheHonestCarpenter Arsenic is present as an arsenate anion in treated lumber and is very toxic as are other arsenic compounds. Also they are water soluble so eventually they will go into ground water 🥺
@@deepsudeep True, but without good treatment methods and a growing middle class in many areas of the world, this is only going to accelerate deforestation.
The most important public service announcement advanced carpenters or beginners need to see . This video reminds me of Ethans earlier input about what people "think" they know about pallet wood . Respect sent .
I stain my fence. Stain is absorbed into the wood. Also, overtime stain fades, i.e. ages gracefully. You can also apply more stain without having to sand. Unlike paint that peels off and becomes eye sore...
I've been a carpenter for almost two decades now, and I absolutely despise treated wood lumber. It is garbage white pine that's oftentimes(much more in recent years) twisted, cupped, crowned, high moisture content, or all of the above and is absolutely terrible to work with. Fortunately, I work in an area most of the time that is a dry climate, so I steer my clients away from it as much as possible and get some nice and strong, high quality doug fir. Not to mention the health ramifications that could come from the treatment to both my client and myself.
I believe it is SYP. Southern Yellow Pine that is almost all treated lumber. Even telephone poles are SYP, but treated with much better rot resistant chemicals.
I agree! In reality, it will probably cost you more down the road. You’re better off buying high-quality wood and adding a sealant/finish to protect it from rot.
Thank you so much for this comment. I'm a single homeowner who tries to do the best I can afford. I recently replaced my rickety back stairs with a new wood landing and stairs and used douglas fir for most of it, and cedar handrails. The very bottom piece that is partially underground was treated, but the rest is not. I used a stain/sealer and will reapply every year. Other than having to wait 24 hours for foot traffic, staining is so much easier than painting!
Be especially careful if you do the "pallet builds." As a machinist, our metals were delivered on anti-rust treated wood pallets. Toxic if inhaled in a dust form, like sanding.
In my limited experience (building two decks and stairways), the difference between CCA and the newer ACQ formulas is as clear as night and day. I have a deck built in 1994 with CCA that is still in relatively good condition, but the two stairways I built with ACQ both demonstrated rotting treads within just a few years after construction. I replaced the treads on one stairway a couple of years ago with WRC, and am getting geared up to replace the treads on the other stairway this summer. Luckily the latter stairway isn't used much, since the rotting is getting to dangerous condition.
Hey thanks Honest Carpenter for making this helpful video. I'm always impressed by your natural teaching ability and clear explanations. If you make more videos about construction hazards, I'd be interested in your thoughts about wood dust, potential hazards, and what precautions you take.
FWIW: I've used ACQ on my decks since 2006 (my house; my build). I dry the lumber after purchase for 9 months, then I treat and semi-transparent stain the boards (especially the cut ends!) before installation. 14 years later, the boards still look great. Did I mention I'm kinda nuts? :D
No more nuts than I am, I pretty much do the exact same thing . I've waited about seven to eight months before chemical cleaning all my pressure treated wood and then presealing it before I even cut and built. Even with all of these measures in place I still have about a 50 to 100% cull rate on today's timber. We have huge decks at our place that were constructed around 2000 that still look like new with pressure treated pine except for general expected wear. But a couple of decks that were built in 08 and 12 are pathetically, prematurely aging even though they're treated with an oil base sealant every 3 to 4 years. When contacting the retailer at The big box store the general help is in awe about the premature aging and does not know how to address the questions. More education at that level needs to be had to make the customers aware. Like the report says I always expected to get no less than 30 to 40 years out of a properly installed project built out of pt lumber. The properly informed customer from the retailer can make a decision to select the proper products for their project regardless of the price. If your project's going to fall apart and 8 to 12 years it doesn't make sense to go to that expense when it goes south on you that quick. Wear a deck builder could really get in trouble is using a composite product on the deck and steps and their substructure made from your general PT, go bad in eight to 12 years. A real expense loss then. There's no doubt that the public has to be properly and adequately informed about the safety of these products as any but the positive twist here for the contractor is he gets to come back and do it all again in about half to a third the time expected. Essentially more repeat business for them sooner.
I can personally attest to the resilience of CCA treated lumber. I dug some fence posts out of the ground a couple summers ago and the tags, still legible and stapled to the posts, were from the early 80's and the posts looked only slightly worn. This is in heavy clay damp Midwestern soil. Same for dimensional lumber. Newer stuff is not holding up to humidity near as well.
THANK YOU so much for this information! I was having failure of pressure treated wood posts I had put into the ground some 12 years ago. I thought I had done something wrong in my installation, but I was unaware I was using inferior pressure treated wood (even when I used "for ground contact") compared to the wood fences I built back in the 1980s. It's that the pressure treating of yester-year was actually better at resisting rot/deterioration than the stuff of 2008 pressure treating. So it was not so much of the way I installed it, it's just that the materials aren't of the same quality. Time to re-design my fencing methods!
I've been using ground contact treated wood in raised a bed garden for about 10 years. It's still in great shape. I have soil analysis done every spring and have never had a problem.
I built raised beds with ground contact PT Doug fir lumber. I am tearing them down now. They lasted 13 years, barely. In another raised bed, the 4x4 corner post has rotted about half away in 5 years. When tearing down my beds, I noticed that in areas where the wood was covered with heavy duty ground cloth so that the soil was not directly against it, the PT wood was still structurally sound, but in areas where it was directly exposed to the raised bed soil, the wood was deeply decayed. That convinced me that in my new beds, the entire inner surface needs to be covered with heavy-duty landscaping fabric. If my original beds had been thus covered, I think they would have gone 20 years easily.
Retired GC here, and I am actually in the process of adding tiers to my raised beds as I type (taking a break). I get all of my PTL from the HD, as I want the color to match when I stain it. I've known this for a long time as well, and as soon as I explain this to others on their videos, they are happy to hear it. The copper leach is something like 0.2%, waaay below the EPA acceptable level of 4%, so I consider my food organic. Those who scream this is not organic, are going to get far sicker from simply inhaling city air.
Just a thought about above ground gardening... Start with cheap pine and start small. Many people get tired of gardening long before the pine boards rot. Filling deep beds with quality compost is NOT free for most of us. Gardening is a skill learned through trial and error. If you fall in love with food growing, then you can increase your investment as your gardening and food storage skills improve.
There was a case of a couple who died from exposure to arsenic from cutting treated wood, because they built a whole house from treated wood and cut the wood even inside the house they kept going to the doctors for being sick but the couldn't understand why, till they died . I saw it in an old episode of mystery diagnosis long time ago. Back when arsenic was used .
Thanks for the video! I didn't know there's an above ground only and a ground contact type. I check my wood's label and realized I build my little storage bin out of above ground only wood...I guess I'll have to put it on some bricks so it doesn't contact any soil
I’ve cut a crazy amount of the stuff, Smith (though not as much as you), and that includes pre-2003 lumber. I never got the dermal problems that it’s said to cause. Admittedly, I didn’t mask up as much as I should have 😬 But I’ve always felt we would have seen more ongoing class action suits if it was highly toxic...
A friend of mine built a big deck with wolmanized lumber back in the 1990's and didn't mask up. He was severely poisoned with arsenic and his skin was a mess for the rest of his life. He always regretted exposing himself and not masking up. Be aware.
I’ve been using CCA treated timber for 34 years. Extensive use for landscaping & general construction plus the highest available treatment for piles etc in coastal region. I have zero skin irritations, respiratory or any other ailments and have never heard of such or any problems with anyone else in or out of the industry. It’s complete and utter balderdash.
I had a 30 year old 8’ cedar split sapling fence replaced in my southern New England yard. It was really falling apart. The in-ground set fence posts were pressure treated 6x6s. Installed by a reputable fence company I am sure they were near state-of-the-art for the period. I was stunned to see the fence posts were in excellent condition including those portions that had been sitting in there ground all these years. The fence guys took these away...obviously eyeing them for repurposing on their own home projects. I have a rear deck with PT 5/4 decking and dimensional PT framing that has held up very well since 1995.
Copper in wood... no wonder it's so dang expensive. No proof (scientific) that CCA is bad, but let's ban it anyway!! Came here as a DIYer trying to figure out what MCQ meant. It means real expensive wood!!! Nice video and look forward to the label vid. Also, was looking up lumber after watching your pallet video and how truly bad pallet wood is! Thanks and keep up the good work!!
PT wood rot is perfectly fine. My 300 sq ft deck that was built in the late 80's has mostly rotted away, but is still safe. It just looks disgusting, that's all.
I really like how informative your videos are, and now that got me thinking what kind of lumber and treatment they use where I live. Thanks for that, I have some research to do now
Just for an interesting contrast between materials being discussed and commercial-use treated lumber: I built a shade cloth frame from creosote-treated recycled utility pole cross members. I had previously used them as a garden border for at least ten years in direct contact with the ground with no sign of rot. The down side to using this treated lumber is it stinks and it rotted the shade cloth in about a year where it was in direct contact with the plastic cloth. I plan to line the upper surface of the wood with aluminum flashing and replace the cloth.
Replacing a number of deck boards (2x6s) and one joist, two other joists have some rot but can be repaired, treated, and sistered with a second shorter 2x8. The whole time I'm thinking, this deck is barely 7 yrs old and sealed/stained regularly. Of course all the bad spots are located where water is concentrated from the roof or furniture and the sun rarely shines. Water control / prevention is next step. Your video was very informative, thanks.
I didn't know there was a difference in treated lumber in regards to ground contact. I will have to pay closer attention to those small labels that fall off easily now. Thanks.
I handled some today and it seemed very wet still. This of course, made the lumber weigh so much more and coated me with maroon (preservative?). It washed off me easily, might just write gloves and clothes off. You educated me and I'm grateful, thanx.
I just rebuilt my front stairs and replaced porch deck boards because being south facing, they get full sun and rain, and the painting is just not working. The porch was built with closed front stairs, and surrounded by lattice. It always drove me nuts that leaves would get under there and I couldn't get to them. But it wasn't until I tore down the old stairs that I saw the leaves that had collected under the stringers. Much of it had mulched into soil, but it definitely hastened the demise of the stringers and surrounding attached wood, despite it sitting on concrete. I rebuilt the stairs to be open, which means more will get under the porch, but I'm also working on a redesign of the lattice and the new project will be better for cleaning out underneath. I think if we think about such things, we can make things last longer. Next is replacing 6 x 6 posts that have rotted at the bottom. I priced them out yesterday at HD and I'm not seeing much that looks visually appealing.
I moved in my home 12 years ago and my deck looks like I had for twenty. My wife wanted it laid over with brown stain I Didn’t even have the chance to protest. now almost every board has to be replaced. Also , trying out gardening in a raised bed for the first time. Thanks for pointing out the details for looking at the label 🏷. Next time I’ll pay closer attention.
Just tore down a deck that was built in the late 80’s-early 90’s. I was surprised how well it held up. Now I know why. Glad I didn’t burn it. It was an option, but we went with a dumpster instead.
I salvaged some really old barnwood in 2003. I've left it stacked and covered in a field. It's gray and a little warped but I am really surprised that nothing ever tried to get in it to this day. I assumed at some point that nothing of nutritional value was left for bugs? I am guessing from local history the original structure was built in the 1920's.
As I understand it, the fungal organisms that cause wood decay all require some minimum level of moisture to live. If the moisture content of your salvaged wood has remained below some particular threshold -- I believe something in the 15-18% range -- then it should remain decay-free pretty much indefinitely. That said, wood is a hygroscopic material and will tend to reach the same average humidity level as its surroundings over time. If you live in a fairly dry climate, it's not too surprising that your covered barnwood hasn't degraded much. Take all that with a grain of salt, though. I'm not a biologist or a forester; I'm just another amateur carpenter on the internet. :)
I built a ground level deck with PT GC ( post 2004 wood ) wood from 84 lumber, it rotten out in less than 4 years . 84 folks told me they had a problem with that vendor/ supplier and they were sorry. I was out over $1,000 and my time . The deck was buit next to other PT lumber benches, fences, and such that are now 40 years old and perfect . The new PT wood techniques are really not very sustainable either way. Waist of time / $$/ environmental issues/etc.... It was replaced and stained/treated but if I have to replace the deck again, I will use concrete instead :) .
Lol well this answers my question. I live in a super moist area. Everything invariably needs replacement-- wood is natural and it just rots. Period so I decided to just go cedar since it's abundant in my area, cheap and easy to access. My roof is actually metal for that reason too, the moss accumulates like a boss. Treated lumber makes sense in certain applications but I just prefer the ease of simplicity and what's the point if I have to replace it so I will go with cedar Thanks for the video!
Built my deck out treated lumber back in 1980, it is still going strong. Had to replace one board which was questionable when I installed it. I don’t know what this has to say about it but it sure has been durable.
Thanks for the video. Very informative and helpful. And I think a video on those lumber tags would be really helpful. I had no idea that those tags contained that kind of info.
Excellent, most informative video. Question ... now that copper is used to treat woods, does this affect di-similar metals. If copper treated wood is placed against softer metals, such as aluminum, etc., does this treatment process increase propensity for electrolysis?
Yes, there are rules to this, KA! I’ll try to team up with a materials company soon so I can cover it all-it gets fairly complex with so many new products out there.
Even though acq lumber seems to eat aluminum flashing and electrogalvanized nails, I've had severe failures with deck boards and handrail components within 10 years of environmental exposure.
I helped my dad build a large deck out of CCA lumber over 30 years ago. I gave it a close look this past Thanksgiving and it is in surprisingly good shape. Meanwhile I know many other people with newer decks that are rotting out. It is a shame we can't still use this product for decking as it doesn't seem to really be all that bad.
I don't know if you 'll see this but an old farmers method is to use motor oil (used for a darker stain & new for a brighter one) on the wood. It's cheap compared to buying treated wood as well as using paints & stains.
I aint no carpenter but I built a small 15sq/m (-+43sq/ft) deck in my backyard in 2008 with untreated timber and burnt it using the shou ban technique, then applied weather-proof polyurethane and now in 2021 I still cannot see any obvious damage to the deck. I might need to reapply a coat of poly though, just to cover some of the normal wear. I live in the middle of Europe, so we have dry-ish warm summers, and rainy autumns and below freezing winters. Great video bro!
Good to know. I’ve always wondered whether the treated wood I would use in my backyard firepit had any bad stuff in it. For years in high school and into college I was low on funds and usually couldn’t afford buying bundles of firewood from the store, so I’d drive around parts of Dallas and take huge amounts of scrap/junk wood from construction sites that the builders weren’t going to use or take old wood from trash piles whenever people threw it out from whatever they had used it for before. Some of it I can tell was definitely older than me. Some had paint on it or other chemicals that I could see so I knew that wood for sure probably wasn’t the best to burn, but I didn’t worry as long as the smoke always just went straight up into the air. Most of the wood id collect was just plain construction wood like planks and 2x4’s so I never thought it would have any kind of bad stuff inside it but I guess I was wrong. I don’t burn any kind of this wood anymore as I have an apartment now and nowhere to make bonfires, but it was nice saving tons of money over the years by just using the treated stuff that people would get rid of.
I want to add a 96 SQFT screened in porch to the back of my house. 6 ft wide x 16 ft long. I was going to use treated lumber, but now don’t know what to use. Kansas City, MO area. Will be supported by ledger board, plus 6 vertical 6x6 bolted to buried concrete pillars. Notches cut out of 6x6 to support 2x6 for both floor and roof. Thinking about coating boards with something after cutting to size, but before attaching. That way, all surfaces are covered.
What fascinates me is how this is all a very important aspect of the conversation and thank you for taking the time but the environment is never part of the conversation. It fascinates me how still today the environment is never part of the conversation The cost of getting the lumber to us environmentally is a comparison that's extremely important to making the choice along with personal financial and health costs. How about a conversation about a cost to our community for the conservation or destruction of the environment in the processing of straight cedar boards compared to treated boards compared to composite boards?
Im a carpenter who builds decks for a living since 1987. I have handled and no doubt breathed sawdust from CCA treated lumber as I dont wear a mask of anykind. My co-workers and I have zero effects from the contact of these products. I would worry more from breathing the newer products we use like PVC dust. When ACQ came out it was very corrosive it ate away at aluminum truck bodies and you couldn't wrap wood with aluminum coil. Also the "above" ground wood is junk. We have been replacing joists and headers made from ACQ. We only use in ground contact now for all construction. I am concerned about treated lumber always have been, not for health but structural. When you cut a 6x6 the depth of treatment is basically surface depth. All decks Ive ever built since the 80s are still in good condition having used CCA. The decks customers continued to maintain with stain or some treatment are in fabulous shape. Back then I only used #1 grade wood for everything. I am forced to use whats available now but dont like ACQ. I believe some environmental zealots made a big to do about nothing as they usually do.
Posts going into the ground should be wrapped with felt or coated with asphalt. Joists and stringers should be covered on the top edge with joist tape. All pt wood should be field treated with copper naphthenate especially horizontal deck boards and rails.
The Arsenic in ACB is lower than it is in peach pits which is the seeds own termite protection. I treat my 22 year old redwood porch with Watco Teak oil every year using old socks (over gloves) as applicator / wiper - on with the right hand, excess off with left hand. Just like the Karate Kid LOL - easy as no sanding is required just washing and let dry first. The annual re oil takes very little of this $40/gallon oil after the first application. The socks and oil pick up most of the "stains" and I change to a clean pair when they get too crudy.
I live in Australia and cca treated pine is sold here. I have a lot of fence Pailings I’m wanting to use for a garden bed. I just read up that if the vegetables are grown above ground like the fruit, there is no chemicals in it so it should be safe for tomatoes cucumbers and things like that. I’m wanting to know so I don’t make my family sick.
I got deck that been build in 1997. Replaced part after tree fell on it ~8 years ego. All boards been sealed with semi transparent stain/sealer 6 years ego. I plan to replace whole deck surface this winter since both 1997 and 2012 boards look equally bad by now. Stain/sealer I used was only good for 1-2 years. Guess going forward I’ll either splurge on composite decking, plan on replacing wood one every 6-8 years or re-seal it every year.
I am a physician. It is important to understand the concept of what causes cancer. DNA, when exposed to that which preserves, will increase the life span of cells, which counter intuitively, increases cancers. Cancer occurs when cells do not die and are not subject to controlled cell death so that the whole organism can live. In fact, some cancer cells that are used in research are over 80 years old and will continue to live forever. Preservatives that reduce decay, such as arsenic, in general, promote cancer for the above mentioned explanation. Therefore, as a general rule, presevatives that prevent the degradation of wood also increase cancer risks. Though there are no studies that link copper to cancer, over and over again, preservatives increase risks of cancer. Wether it is formaldehyde in glues, asbestos in brake pads, arsenic in treated lumber, or phthalates in plastics, the general rule is that if it resists decay then it's likely to cause cancer.
I have old pressure treated wood porch and steps. They are in sore need of new pain. Can I pressure wash it? How can I safely prepare the wood for painting.
I'm still enjoying a 40 year old deck built from treated 2x6's. It must've been the good stuff. It wasn't even sealed or stained for about a 15 year stretch. I've sanded and flipped a few boards and replaced some rotted nails with screws. It will probably need some reinforcement at the ground contact points within the next couple of years. Other than that, I bet the deck will last another 20 years.
I could have written this same post. My deck was over 40 years old, and I flipped the floorboards over once and pressure washed later. Just replaced the flooring. The wood frame was really good so just shored it up some with posts. Problem is I have these old boards now. I was hoping I could use them for garden boxes since I would think the poison has all leached out but I'm not sure. Can't figure out how to get rid of these bad boys.
@@coffeebreaktude I don't know, if they are the thicker 2x6s maybe run them thru a planer and repurpose them? But that's probably not a good idea cause of any old nails that might be in the wood.
My dad has been framing basement and all for over 50 years and I told him I needed some pre treated wood he looked at me and said don't by that mess I know what I'm doing lol
I helped my dad build a deck which he then expanded after they had a sunroom built onto their house. We already have boards that have rotted that I will have to replace next summer. So I think there's evidence, at least in Ohio's weather, that they don't hold up as well. The deck they built off their second story around 91/92 is still fine.
I agree that newer treated lumber products don’t hold up as well as older variants produced many years ago. I start losing treated boards on my deck to rot and fissures in the grain at 5-8 years depending on the degree of exposure to the sun and weather. I have yet to find a deck stain or paint product that extends board life more than a couple of years.
Thanks for the video. I just had my family room drywall opened up to replace hollowed out wood plates/studs from major termite damage. They replaced it with treated wood 2 x 4s and had to do some sawing in the house to fit them into place. The drywall won't be close back up for another two weeks. The construction area is partitioned off fairly good with plastic sheets. Am OK sitting in my family room watching tv etc. with the exposed treated lumber if it's behind plastic? I'm not handling the wood or my face is not close to it. I'm just worried about the sawdust and any fumes that might not be 100% contained during the intervening time when the drywall is put back up. Thanks.
The biggest question is what to use to seal the wood and seal out moisture, that _doesn't_ need to be reapplied every year or two to maintain it protective qualities?
My sons foot went through 12 year old pressure treated deck board this summer. I replaced them all and expect no more than another dozen years to failure.
How does the anti-corrosion chemicals hold up if you cut a piece of pressure treated lumber. If you had a 12 ft 4x4 post and you cut it in half to make two posts that is that carry the same pressure treat protection that uncut lumber carries. TIA
Stop, the answer is very simple.... Please Mr. James... I use Elmer's outdoor/ indoor water proof glue... at 50% glue and 50% water, mix well, apply in the shade if possible with paint brush.... It makes the wood rough and tough...... You can take a hammer and hit the wood without making a dent.... so you can not prep the wood this way but only after finishing making...... I just took a old glider which was falling apart put it back together with screws and scrub the blank out of it with soap and water and allowed to dry for 24 hours then cover with the glue solution.... even where the wood was split it was hard as concrete and would not break at all... was not going to future split as it was tough!!!! At $35 dollars (aprroximate cost) a gallon it is a little expensive but you do not need it all..... as for bugs and fungus they can not inter the wood!!!!!!! I use this solution all the time like on the work bench so paint will peel off water beads up and the woods can not be marred. ETC.
Thankyou for this video. We are building a large chicken coop out of “treated pine”. I hope this won’t adversely effect our chickens. The perches will be normal hardwood.
For deck boards and railings, pressure/steam-treated lumber will be rot, insect and mold resistant, since the sugars are cooked out of the lumber, rather than dipping in chemicals. I redecked with THERMORY boards, though the information about it was scant. This is REAL lumber, in choice of white Ash or Scotch Pine, the boards do not shrink, cup or swell. The price is surprisingly competitive to untreated lumber of the same grade. IT shipes in a rich brown finish, which will fade away and turn silver, as would cedar. ( the Scotch Pine flavor ). IT is not necessary to use a finish at all, but if you do, it HAS to be oil based, aas the cell structure of the lumber is altered in the process, making it unable to absorb water.
Cu acts as a Fungicidal in CCA. As. the Insecticide and Cr. the cellulose fixing agent. The 2 replacement Products mentioned here do not have the insecticide As or the stuff - Cr. that binds it all to the wood cellulose. No wonder the 2 Substitutes don't last more than 10yrs at a stretch; aside from the leeched Cu into the marine environment. Heard of Acetylated Wood? (Accoya is a Trade name for it)
My neighbors keep burning pressure-treated and compressed wood and also there's kind of bored that have the foam stuff on them turn like a peach color foam and it looks like it's compressed down tight wood that looks like wood shavings the burning legs all of that kind of stuff and then I don't know if this is normal or not but the kind of wood they're burning which I know is a Scots to be pressure treated wood or not but does pressure treated wood give you a copper taste in your mouth and make you have a nosebleed over time and also doesn't it also give you very bad migraine like headaches and then make you feel so dizzy that you end up paralyzed for like an few minutes or so
the way does anybody here believe that somebody who is burning their own trash which they literally don't even have a trash company they State why would we want to trash company if we could just burn where they literally stated by the way and I quote we don't know obey by the law we can do whatever we want in the yeah me and my mother have been literally basically forced to stay inside the house and you know what the fire department where I live said oh yeah they're just cooking I'm sorry did you not see the f****** trash bag in the damn f****** burn barrel when you on our property and they literally stated they're just cooking we told them to put it out if they don't then whatever and yeah they still have not put it out
I built outdoor furniture for the last 12 years, Al I use is treated wood (pine) and only one guy, not a customer, complain about me using treated lumber. He makes furniture with other exotic wood, obviously a lot more expensive.
I have used Treated Lumber in my Raised Garden beds for 3 years now but have lined them with Plastic sheeting I have yet to have much problem and no clear rot yet
The quality of the lumber itself is in a downward spiral. The PT lumber I was building with in the 90's was much denser than the PT lumber I am stuck with today. And they were both locally sourced Pine.
I live in Mobile Alabama and with our rain levels my pressure treated yellow lumber deck lasted 6 years with a annual Thompson treatment. It’s infuriating and with the price of lumber going up, soon it won’t be an option. I’ll have to go with concrete.
I love both but cedar defiantly does not hold up to ground contact. I just replaced a bunch of cedar decking. I have two decks and the PT decking is fine. Both are about 20 years old and I seal each every year. I prefer the look of cedar though. My fence is cedar but the ground contact poles on PT. My sisters fence had cedar poles and they all failed fairly quickly. I live on the Northeast and its fairly damp Take care.
We have problems with carpenter bees drilling cedar. Cypress is my preferred exterior exposed wood. I have heard that locust is also very rot resistant, and is actually very beautiful.
I work at a large big box store. Recently I noticed a new employee cutting pressure-treated lumber for a customer. I waited until the customer walked away and asked the employee why he wasn't wearing a dust mask. He told me that it wasn't brought up in his training. I poke to a supervisor and he was clueless about the issue but promised to put a box of masks by the saw. That never happened nor as far as I can find out is it company policy to wear one. I plan to press this issue with the safety committee but I'm pretty shocked there's no policy in place. Big companies are always spouting off on how important employee safety is but since they are self-insured I'm convinced they are only concerned with injuries and not health issues. I'll let you know how I make out.
Any updates?
Sadly no updates. Called the company hotline and got an 'oh my gosh we need to look into this' response. Knew it was dead in the water then. But I'll keep trying
@@joeadams8975keep up the good work mate, people don't realise how bad this really is
Good job paying attention to this!!
I like the redwood pixie dust you find in HD, under the fake cedar/redwood decking. I would yell "FOUR" through the intercom before cutting a strapped bundle of this twisty stuff!
I am a chemist and it amazes me what the industry gets away with without studying the consequences
I know there are definitely some harsh chemical in construction, deep. What do you think about the old arsenic? Extremely toxic? Or only in very high concentrations?
@@TheHonestCarpenter Arsenic is present as an arsenate anion in treated lumber and is very toxic as are other arsenic compounds. Also they are water soluble so eventually they will go into ground water 🥺
@@deepsudeep One is reminded of high concentrations of formaldehyde used in the production of paneling .
@@deepsudeep True, but without good treatment methods and a growing middle class in many areas of the world, this is only going to accelerate deforestation.
@@GyprockGypsy there are always safer alternatives. Just needs research and public awareness.
The most important public service announcement advanced carpenters or beginners need to see . This video reminds me of Ethans earlier input about what people "think" they know about pallet wood . Respect sent .
Thank you, Quantum! 😄
I stain my fence. Stain is absorbed into the wood. Also, overtime stain fades, i.e. ages gracefully. You can also apply more stain without having to sand. Unlike paint that peels off and becomes eye sore...
I've been a carpenter for almost two decades now, and I absolutely despise treated wood lumber. It is garbage white pine that's oftentimes(much more in recent years) twisted, cupped, crowned, high moisture content, or all of the above and is absolutely terrible to work with. Fortunately, I work in an area most of the time that is a dry climate, so I steer my clients away from it as much as possible and get some nice and strong, high quality doug fir.
Not to mention the health ramifications that could come from the treatment to both my client and myself.
I believe it is SYP. Southern Yellow Pine that is almost all treated lumber. Even telephone poles are SYP, but treated with much better rot resistant chemicals.
I agree! In reality, it will probably cost you more down the road. You’re better off buying high-quality wood and adding a sealant/finish to protect it from rot.
so where can I buy untreated wood? I've looked online but no specifcations are listed.
Thank you so much for this comment. I'm a single homeowner who tries to do the best I can afford. I recently replaced my rickety back stairs with a new wood landing and stairs and used douglas fir for most of it, and cedar handrails. The very bottom piece that is partially underground was treated, but the rest is not. I used a stain/sealer and will reapply every year. Other than having to wait 24 hours for foot traffic, staining is so much easier than painting!
Be especially careful if you do the "pallet builds." As a machinist, our metals were delivered on anti-rust treated wood pallets. Toxic if inhaled in a dust form, like sanding.
Too late 🤣 thanks for the new information though!
@@jadensamuelson Every ticky tacky cable house flip show just HAS to have a pallet headboard, and barn doors everywhere.
In my limited experience (building two decks and stairways), the difference between CCA and the newer ACQ formulas is as clear as night and day. I have a deck built in 1994 with CCA that is still in relatively good condition, but the two stairways I built with ACQ both demonstrated rotting treads within just a few years after construction. I replaced the treads on one stairway a couple of years ago with WRC, and am getting geared up to replace the treads on the other stairway this summer. Luckily the latter stairway isn't used much, since the rotting is getting to dangerous condition.
Similar experience. I stopped using treated wood about 5 years ago.
This is wonderful. People like you should be encouraged by governments to educate public.
Hey thanks Honest Carpenter for making this helpful video. I'm always impressed by your natural teaching ability and clear explanations. If you make more videos about construction hazards, I'd be interested in your thoughts about wood dust, potential hazards, and what precautions you take.
"Is treated wood bad for you?" ---- Depends how much you eat.
FWIW: I've used ACQ on my decks since 2006 (my house; my build). I dry the lumber after purchase for 9 months, then I treat and semi-transparent stain the boards (especially the cut ends!) before installation. 14 years later, the boards still look great. Did I mention I'm kinda nuts? :D
No more nuts than I am, I pretty much do the exact same thing . I've waited about seven to eight months before chemical cleaning all my pressure treated wood and then presealing it before I even cut and built. Even with all of these measures in place I still have about a 50 to 100% cull rate on today's timber. We have huge decks at our place that were constructed around 2000 that still look like new with pressure treated pine except for general expected wear. But a couple of decks that were built in 08 and 12 are pathetically, prematurely aging even though they're treated with an oil base sealant every 3 to 4 years. When contacting the retailer at The big box store the general help is in awe about the premature aging and does not know how to address the questions. More education at that level needs to be had to make the customers aware. Like the report says I always expected to get no less than 30 to 40 years out of a properly installed project built out of pt lumber. The properly informed customer from the retailer can make a decision to select the proper products for their project regardless of the price. If your project's going to fall apart and 8 to 12 years it doesn't make sense to go to that expense when it goes south on you that quick. Wear a deck builder could really get in trouble is using a composite product on the deck and steps and their substructure made from your general PT, go bad in eight to 12 years. A real expense loss then. There's no doubt that the public has to be properly and adequately informed about the safety of these products as any but the positive twist here for the contractor is he gets to come back and do it all again in about half to a third the time expected. Essentially more repeat business for them sooner.
That's a good and thorough protocol! TY 🙏
@@ronhumphrey5355
Summed up nicely.
I'm going to try that. thks
I can personally attest to the resilience of CCA treated lumber. I dug some fence posts out of the ground a couple summers ago and the tags, still legible and stapled to the posts, were from the early 80's and the posts looked only slightly worn. This is in heavy clay damp Midwestern soil. Same for dimensional lumber. Newer stuff is not holding up to humidity near as well.
THANK YOU so much for this information! I was having failure of pressure treated wood posts I had put into the ground some 12 years ago. I thought I had done something wrong in my installation, but I was unaware I was using inferior pressure treated wood (even when I used "for ground contact") compared to the wood fences I built back in the 1980s. It's that the pressure treating of yester-year was actually better at resisting rot/deterioration than the stuff of 2008 pressure treating. So it was not so much of the way I installed it, it's just that the materials aren't of the same quality. Time to re-design my fencing methods!
I've been using ground contact treated wood in raised a bed garden for about 10 years. It's still in great shape. I have soil analysis done every spring and have never had a problem.
Thanks for this. Do you line your raised beds with black plastic?
@@ginamac8136 I don't, actually.
Soil analysis pertaining to what?
I put up a privacy fence and I've painted it with oil-based barn paint which has helped a lot.
Helped with what exactly? Lol
I built raised beds with ground contact PT Doug fir lumber. I am tearing them down now. They lasted 13 years, barely. In another raised bed, the 4x4 corner post has rotted about half away in 5 years. When tearing down my beds, I noticed that in areas where the wood was covered with heavy duty ground cloth so that the soil was not directly against it, the PT wood was still structurally sound, but in areas where it was directly exposed to the raised bed soil, the wood was deeply decayed. That convinced me that in my new beds, the entire inner surface needs to be covered with heavy-duty landscaping fabric. If my original beds had been thus covered, I think they would have gone 20 years easily.
Retired GC here, and I am actually in the process of adding tiers to my raised beds as I type (taking a break). I get all of my PTL from the HD, as I want the color to match when I stain it. I've known this for a long time as well, and as soon as I explain this to others on their videos, they are happy to hear it. The copper leach is something like 0.2%, waaay below the EPA acceptable level of 4%, so I consider my food organic. Those who scream this is not organic, are going to get far sicker from simply inhaling city air.
Just a thought about above ground gardening... Start with cheap pine and start small. Many people get tired of gardening long before the pine boards rot. Filling deep beds with quality compost is NOT free for most of us. Gardening is a skill learned through trial and error. If you fall in love with food growing, then you can increase your investment as your gardening and food storage skills improve.
There was a case of a couple who died from exposure to arsenic from cutting treated wood, because they built a whole house from treated wood and cut the wood even inside the house they kept going to the doctors for being sick but the couldn't understand why, till they died . I saw it in an old episode of mystery diagnosis long time ago. Back when arsenic was used .
Not only a great conversation starter, but your topic is thought provoking…thank you for sharing.
You are correct, you will only get ten years at the most out of treated lumber now.
Thanks for the video! I didn't know there's an above ground only and a ground contact type. I check my wood's label and realized I build my little storage bin out of above ground only wood...I guess I'll have to put it on some bricks so it doesn't contact any soil
Long time ago I built lots of 100s of decks with treated lumber for 8 years .Im 71 years old now and I'm still alive and healthy.
I’ve cut a crazy amount of the stuff, Smith (though not as much as you), and that includes pre-2003 lumber. I never got the dermal problems that it’s said to cause. Admittedly, I didn’t mask up as much as I should have 😬 But I’ve always felt we would have seen more ongoing class action suits if it was highly toxic...
@@TheHonestCarpenter I never masked up baxk then either or now
I. dont understand how I'm still alive!
A friend of mine built a big deck with wolmanized lumber back in the 1990's and didn't mask up. He was severely poisoned with arsenic and his skin was a mess for the rest of his life. He always regretted exposing himself and not masking up. Be aware.
I’ve been using CCA treated timber for 34 years. Extensive use for landscaping & general construction plus the highest available treatment for piles etc in coastal region. I have zero skin irritations, respiratory or any other ailments and have never heard of such or any problems with anyone else in or out of the industry. It’s complete and utter balderdash.
I had a 30 year old 8’ cedar split sapling fence replaced in my southern New England yard. It was really falling apart. The in-ground set fence posts were pressure treated 6x6s. Installed by a reputable fence company I am sure they were near state-of-the-art for the period.
I was stunned to see the fence posts were in excellent condition including those portions that had been sitting in there ground all these years. The fence guys took these away...obviously eyeing them for repurposing on their own home projects. I have a rear deck with PT 5/4 decking and dimensional PT framing that has held up very well since 1995.
Awesome video, Ethan! Love your channel. You always have great content.
Thank you, Bill! I appreciate the positive feedback :)
Copper in wood... no wonder it's so dang expensive. No proof (scientific) that CCA is bad, but let's ban it anyway!! Came here as a DIYer trying to figure out what MCQ meant. It means real expensive wood!!! Nice video and look forward to the label vid. Also, was looking up lumber after watching your pallet video and how truly bad pallet wood is! Thanks and keep up the good work!!
Have you made a video about reading lumber stickers yet?
Yes, I put in a deck in 2006 and now in 2020, I have to replace it. Actually its had rotted spot for years.
PT wood rot is perfectly fine. My 300 sq ft deck that was built in the late 80's has mostly rotted away, but is still safe. It just looks disgusting, that's all.
I really like how informative your videos are, and now that got me thinking what kind of lumber and treatment they use where I live. Thanks for that, I have some research to do now
You’re welcome, Fernando! Just pull those lumber stickers 🙂
@@TheHonestCarpenter Love your videos. Isn't most all lumber treated with chemicals? And therefore problematic at some level?
Just for an interesting contrast between materials being discussed and commercial-use treated lumber: I built a shade cloth frame from creosote-treated recycled utility pole cross members. I had previously used them as a garden border for at least ten years in direct contact with the ground with no sign of rot. The down side to using this treated lumber is it stinks and it rotted the shade cloth in about a year where it was in direct contact with the plastic cloth. I plan to line the upper surface of the wood with aluminum flashing and replace the cloth.
Replacing a number of deck boards (2x6s) and one joist, two other joists have some rot but can be repaired, treated, and sistered with a second shorter 2x8. The whole time I'm thinking, this deck is barely 7 yrs old and sealed/stained regularly. Of course all the bad spots are located where water is concentrated from the roof or furniture and the sun rarely shines. Water control / prevention is next step. Your video was very informative, thanks.
I didn't know there was a difference in treated lumber in regards to ground contact. I will have to pay closer attention to those small labels that fall off easily now. Thanks.
Great subject! I had no idea that copper was used now and was much less toxic! Thank you for all your videos, I enjoy watching and learning from them.
This guy and Project Farm does a great job of digging for truth.
I handled some today and it seemed very wet still. This of course, made the lumber weigh so much more and coated me with maroon (preservative?). It washed off me easily, might just write gloves and clothes off. You educated me and I'm grateful, thanx.
I just rebuilt my front stairs and replaced porch deck boards because being south facing, they get full sun and rain, and the painting is just not working. The porch was built with closed front stairs, and surrounded by lattice. It always drove me nuts that leaves would get under there and I couldn't get to them. But it wasn't until I tore down the old stairs that I saw the leaves that had collected under the stringers. Much of it had mulched into soil, but it definitely hastened the demise of the stringers and surrounding attached wood, despite it sitting on concrete. I rebuilt the stairs to be open, which means more will get under the porch, but I'm also working on a redesign of the lattice and the new project will be better for cleaning out underneath. I think if we think about such things, we can make things last longer. Next is replacing 6 x 6 posts that have rotted at the bottom. I priced them out yesterday at HD and I'm not seeing much that looks visually appealing.
I moved in my home 12 years ago and my deck looks like I had for twenty. My wife wanted it laid over with brown stain I Didn’t even have the chance to protest. now almost every board has to be replaced. Also , trying out gardening in a raised bed for the first time.
Thanks for pointing out the details for looking at the label 🏷. Next time I’ll pay closer attention.
Just tore down a deck that was built in the late 80’s-early 90’s. I was surprised how well it held up. Now I know why. Glad I didn’t burn it. It was an option, but we went with a dumpster instead.
I’ve torn down 30-year old decks that were solid! Just and incredible difference.
I salvaged some really old barnwood in 2003. I've left it stacked and covered in a field. It's gray and a little warped but I am really surprised that nothing ever tried to get in it to this day. I assumed at some point that nothing of nutritional value was left for bugs? I am guessing from local history the original structure was built in the 1920's.
As I understand it, the fungal organisms that cause wood decay all require some minimum level of moisture to live. If the moisture content of your salvaged wood has remained below some particular threshold -- I believe something in the 15-18% range -- then it should remain decay-free pretty much indefinitely. That said, wood is a hygroscopic material and will tend to reach the same average humidity level as its surroundings over time. If you live in a fairly dry climate, it's not too surprising that your covered barnwood hasn't degraded much.
Take all that with a grain of salt, though. I'm not a biologist or a forester; I'm just another amateur carpenter on the internet. :)
I built a ground level deck with PT GC ( post 2004 wood ) wood from 84 lumber, it rotten out in less than 4 years . 84 folks told me they had a problem with that vendor/ supplier and they were sorry. I was out over $1,000 and my time . The deck was buit next to other PT lumber benches, fences, and such that are now 40 years old and perfect . The new PT wood techniques are really not very sustainable either way. Waist of time / $$/ environmental issues/etc.... It was replaced and stained/treated but if I have to replace the deck again, I will use concrete instead :) .
I would agree with you. We get about 50% life of our treated lumber as of today.
Lol well this answers my question. I live in a super moist area. Everything invariably needs replacement-- wood is natural and it just rots. Period so I decided to just go cedar since it's abundant in my area, cheap and easy to access.
My roof is actually metal for that reason too, the moss accumulates like a boss.
Treated lumber makes sense in certain applications but I just prefer the ease of simplicity and what's the point if I have to replace it so I will go with cedar
Thanks for the video!
Built my deck out treated lumber back in 1980, it is still going strong. Had to replace one board which was questionable when I installed it. I don’t know what this has to say about it but it sure has been durable.
I bet it’s rotting and you need to replace it lol. Pressure treated decks are junk
Did you wear a mask?
Thanks for the video. Very informative and helpful. And I think a video on those lumber tags would be really helpful. I had no idea that those tags contained that kind of info.
Thanks for watching, Clark!
Built my deck 9 years ago and it's starting to split and rot. I will have to replace it next spring.
Excellent, most informative video. Question ... now that copper is used to treat woods, does this affect di-similar metals. If copper treated wood is placed against softer metals, such as aluminum, etc., does this treatment process increase propensity for electrolysis?
Yes, there are rules to this, KA! I’ll try to team up with a materials company soon so I can cover it all-it gets fairly complex with so many new products out there.
Just found your channel I'm so great full it's exactly what I've been looking for thank you for your clarity & honesty 🙏
Even though acq lumber seems to eat aluminum flashing and electrogalvanized nails, I've had severe failures with deck boards and handrail components within 10 years of environmental exposure.
I am impressed with the amount of research you have done. Thank you for sharing.
I helped my dad build a large deck out of CCA lumber over 30 years ago. I gave it a close look this past Thanksgiving and it is in surprisingly good shape. Meanwhile I know many other people with newer decks that are rotting out. It is a shame we can't still use this product for decking as it doesn't seem to really be all that bad.
I don't know if you 'll see this but an old farmers method is to use motor oil (used for a darker stain & new for a brighter one) on the wood. It's cheap compared to buying treated wood as well as using paints & stains.
My deck boards only last about 5 years. They rot out around knot holes and the deck screws. I am constantly replacing some of them every year
I aint no carpenter but I built a small 15sq/m (-+43sq/ft) deck in my backyard in 2008 with untreated timber and burnt it using the shou ban technique, then applied weather-proof polyurethane and now in 2021 I still cannot see any obvious damage to the deck. I might need to reapply a coat of poly though, just to cover some of the normal wear. I live in the middle of Europe, so we have dry-ish warm summers, and rainy autumns and below freezing winters. Great video bro!
Did I just see a deck board with a flat head screw in it 🤔 thanks for the knowledge, now all I have to do is memorize it and share it with the guys 👍
this was very very helpful, thank u sir.
Good to know. I’ve always wondered whether the treated wood I would use in my backyard firepit had any bad stuff in it. For years in high school and into college I was low on funds and usually couldn’t afford buying bundles of firewood from the store, so I’d drive around parts of Dallas and take huge amounts of scrap/junk wood from construction sites that the builders weren’t going to use or take old wood from trash piles whenever people threw it out from whatever they had used it for before. Some of it I can tell was definitely older than me. Some had paint on it or other chemicals that I could see so I knew that wood for sure probably wasn’t the best to burn, but I didn’t worry as long as the smoke always just went straight up into the air. Most of the wood id collect was just plain construction wood like planks and 2x4’s so I never thought it would have any kind of bad stuff inside it but I guess I was wrong. I don’t burn any kind of this wood anymore as I have an apartment now and nowhere to make bonfires, but it was nice saving tons of money over the years by just using the treated stuff that people would get rid of.
I want to add a 96 SQFT screened in porch to the back of my house. 6 ft wide x 16 ft long. I was going to use treated lumber, but now don’t know what to use. Kansas City, MO area. Will be supported by ledger board, plus 6 vertical 6x6 bolted to buried concrete pillars. Notches cut out of 6x6 to support 2x6 for both floor and roof. Thinking about coating boards with something after cutting to size, but before attaching. That way, all surfaces are covered.
What fascinates me is how this is all a very important aspect of the conversation and thank you for taking the time but the environment is never part of the conversation. It fascinates me how still today the environment is never part of the conversation The cost of getting the lumber to us environmentally is a comparison that's extremely important to making the choice along with personal financial and health costs. How about a conversation about a cost to our community for the conservation or destruction of the environment in the processing of straight cedar boards compared to treated boards compared to composite boards?
Im a carpenter who builds decks for a living since 1987. I have handled and no doubt breathed sawdust from CCA treated lumber as I dont wear a mask of anykind. My co-workers and I have zero effects from the contact of these products. I would worry more from breathing the newer products we use like PVC dust. When ACQ came out it was very corrosive it ate away at aluminum truck bodies and you couldn't wrap wood with aluminum coil. Also the "above" ground wood is junk. We have been replacing joists and headers made from ACQ. We only use in ground contact now for all construction. I am concerned about treated lumber always have been, not for health but structural. When you cut a 6x6 the depth of treatment is basically surface depth. All decks Ive ever built since the 80s are still in good condition having used CCA. The decks customers continued to maintain with stain or some treatment are in fabulous shape. Back then I only used #1 grade wood for everything. I am forced to use whats available now but dont like ACQ. I believe some environmental zealots made a big to do about nothing as they usually do.
I'm interested in knowing how you built those shelves in the back ground of your work shop.
He has used a french cleat system on the back of his shelf brackets
Excellent content. Thanks so much.
Posts going into the ground should be wrapped with felt or coated with asphalt. Joists and stringers should be covered on the top edge with joist tape. All pt wood should be field treated with copper naphthenate especially horizontal deck boards and rails.
Thanks for the video. As usual, very educational.
There is far more arsenic danger from (regularly) eating potatoes which skin has turned green.
The Arsenic in ACB is lower than it is in peach pits which is the seeds own termite protection. I treat my 22 year old redwood porch with Watco Teak oil every year using old socks (over gloves) as applicator / wiper - on with the right hand, excess off with left hand. Just like the Karate Kid LOL - easy as no sanding is required just washing and let dry first. The annual re oil takes very little of this $40/gallon oil after the first application. The socks and oil pick up most of the "stains" and I change to a clean pair when they get too crudy.
I live in Australia and cca treated pine is sold here. I have a lot of fence Pailings I’m wanting to use for a garden bed. I just read up that if the vegetables are grown above ground like the fruit, there is no chemicals in it so it should be safe for tomatoes cucumbers and things like that. I’m wanting to know so I don’t make my family sick.
I got deck that been build in 1997. Replaced part after tree fell on it ~8 years ego. All boards been sealed with semi transparent stain/sealer 6 years ego.
I plan to replace whole deck surface this winter since both 1997 and 2012 boards look equally bad by now.
Stain/sealer I used was only good for 1-2 years. Guess going forward I’ll either splurge on composite decking, plan on replacing wood one every 6-8 years or re-seal it every year.
I am a physician. It is important to understand the concept of what causes cancer. DNA, when exposed to that which preserves, will increase the life span of cells, which counter intuitively, increases cancers. Cancer occurs when cells do not die and are not subject to controlled cell death so that the whole organism can live. In fact, some cancer cells that are used in research are over 80 years old and will continue to live forever. Preservatives that reduce decay, such as arsenic, in general, promote cancer for the above mentioned explanation. Therefore, as a general rule, presevatives that prevent the degradation of wood also increase cancer risks. Though there are no studies that link copper to cancer, over and over again, preservatives increase risks of cancer. Wether it is formaldehyde in glues, asbestos in brake pads, arsenic in treated lumber, or phthalates in plastics, the general rule is that if it resists decay then it's likely to cause cancer.
I have old pressure treated wood porch and steps. They are in sore need of new pain. Can I pressure wash it? How can I safely prepare the wood for painting.
I'm still enjoying a 40 year old deck built from treated 2x6's. It must've been the good stuff. It wasn't even sealed or stained for about a 15 year stretch. I've sanded and flipped a few boards and replaced some rotted nails with screws. It will probably need some reinforcement at the ground contact points within the next couple of years. Other than that, I bet the deck will last another 20 years.
I could have written this same post. My deck was over 40 years old, and I flipped the floorboards over once and pressure washed later. Just replaced the flooring. The wood frame was really good so just shored it up some with posts. Problem is I have these old boards now. I was hoping I could use them for garden boxes since I would think the poison has all leached out but I'm not sure. Can't figure out how to get rid of these bad boys.
@@coffeebreaktude I don't know, if they are the thicker 2x6s maybe run them thru a planer and repurpose them? But that's probably not a good idea cause of any old nails that might be in the wood.
@@bgarr99 I like that idea. Thanks!!
Thanks for the information. This helps out quite a bit.
My dad has been framing basement and all for over 50 years and I told him I needed some pre treated wood he looked at me and said don't by that mess I know what I'm doing lol
I helped my dad build a deck which he then expanded after they had a sunroom built onto their house. We already have boards that have rotted that I will have to replace next summer. So I think there's evidence, at least in Ohio's weather, that they don't hold up as well. The deck they built off their second story around 91/92 is still fine.
Thank you for making that fact very clear.
You mentioned that board used in aquatic applications are different. Can you explain what kind of treatment they have?
Some great and healthful information! Thanks for all you do!
I agree that newer treated lumber products don’t hold up as well as older variants produced many years ago. I start losing treated boards on my deck to rot and fissures in the grain at 5-8 years depending on the degree of exposure to the sun and weather. I have yet to find a deck stain or paint product that extends board life more than a couple of years.
Thanks for the video. I just had my family room drywall opened up to replace hollowed out wood plates/studs from major termite damage. They replaced it with treated wood 2 x 4s and had to do some sawing in the house to fit them into place. The drywall won't be close back up for another two weeks. The construction area is partitioned off fairly good with plastic sheets. Am OK sitting in my family room watching tv etc. with the exposed treated lumber if it's behind plastic? I'm not handling the wood or my face is not close to it. I'm just worried about the sawdust and any fumes that might not be 100% contained during the intervening time when the drywall is put back up. Thanks.
The biggest question is what to use to seal the wood and seal out moisture, that _doesn't_ need to be reapplied every year or two to maintain it protective qualities?
yes
Excellent video! I learned so much.
My sons foot went through 12 year old pressure treated deck board this summer. I replaced them all and expect no more than another dozen years to failure.
How does the anti-corrosion chemicals hold up if you cut a piece of pressure treated lumber. If you had a 12 ft 4x4 post and you cut it in half to make two posts that is that carry the same pressure treat protection that uncut lumber carries. TIA
Stop, the answer is very simple.... Please Mr. James... I use Elmer's outdoor/ indoor water proof glue... at 50% glue and 50% water, mix well, apply in the shade if possible with paint brush.... It makes the wood rough and tough...... You can take a hammer and hit the wood without making a dent.... so you can not prep the wood this way but only after finishing making...... I just took a old glider which was falling apart put it back together with screws and scrub the blank out of it with soap and water and allowed to dry for 24 hours then cover with the glue solution.... even where the wood was split it was hard as concrete and would not break at all... was not going to future split as it was tough!!!! At $35 dollars (aprroximate cost) a gallon it is a little expensive but you do not need it all..... as for bugs and fungus they can not inter the wood!!!!!!! I use this solution all the time like on the work bench so paint will peel off water beads up and the woods can not be marred. ETC.
I love the idea that a glue can preserve the wood! It makes sense. The natural resins in the wood will not leach out and no bugs can get in!!
Thankyou for this video. We are building a large chicken coop out of “treated pine”. I hope this won’t adversely effect our chickens. The perches will be normal hardwood.
Cedar is a whole lot better alternative to that trust me it impervious to insects and wel weather best to oil seal it for weather purposes
If it's outside then the effect will be much less impactful than indoors, where particles can concentrate.
For deck boards and railings, pressure/steam-treated lumber will be rot, insect and mold resistant, since the sugars are cooked out of the lumber, rather than dipping in chemicals. I redecked with THERMORY boards, though the information about it was scant. This is REAL lumber, in choice of white Ash or Scotch Pine, the boards do not shrink, cup or swell. The price is surprisingly competitive to untreated lumber of the same grade. IT shipes in a rich brown finish, which will fade away and turn silver, as would cedar. ( the Scotch Pine flavor ). IT is not necessary to use a finish at all, but if you do, it HAS to be oil based, aas the cell structure of the lumber is altered in the process, making it unable to absorb water.
I don’t want to say too much....you are very correct ....I just ....you know.....use cedar
excellent research and info, thanks!
Hi, It was good and to the point. I wish you mentioned fasteners too.
Cu acts as a Fungicidal in CCA. As. the Insecticide and Cr. the cellulose fixing agent. The 2 replacement Products mentioned here do not have the insecticide As or the stuff - Cr. that binds it all to the wood cellulose. No wonder the 2 Substitutes don't last more than 10yrs at a stretch; aside from the leeched Cu into the marine environment. Heard of Acetylated Wood? (Accoya is a Trade name for it)
My neighbors keep burning pressure-treated and compressed wood and also there's kind of bored that have the foam stuff on them turn like a peach color foam and it looks like it's compressed down tight wood that looks like wood shavings the burning legs all of that kind of stuff and then I don't know if this is normal or not but the kind of wood they're burning which I know is a Scots to be pressure treated wood or not but does pressure treated wood give you a copper taste in your mouth and make you have a nosebleed over time and also doesn't it also give you very bad migraine like headaches and then make you feel so dizzy that you end up paralyzed for like an few minutes or so
the way does anybody here believe that somebody who is burning their own trash which they literally don't even have a trash company they State why would we want to trash company if we could just burn where they literally stated by the way and I quote we don't know obey by the law we can do whatever we want in the yeah me and my mother have been literally basically forced to stay inside the house and you know what the fire department where I live said oh yeah they're just cooking I'm sorry did you not see the f****** trash bag in the damn f****** burn barrel when you on our property and they literally stated they're just cooking we told them to put it out if they don't then whatever and yeah they still have not put it out
I built outdoor furniture for the last 12 years, Al I use is treated wood (pine) and only one guy, not a customer, complain about me using treated lumber. He makes furniture with other exotic wood, obviously a lot more expensive.
I have used Treated Lumber in my Raised Garden beds for 3 years now but have lined them with Plastic sheeting I have yet to have much problem and no clear rot yet
The quality of the lumber itself is in a downward spiral. The PT lumber I was building with in the 90's was much denser than the PT lumber I am stuck with today. And they were both locally sourced Pine.
I live in Mobile Alabama and with our rain levels my pressure treated yellow lumber deck lasted 6 years with a annual Thompson treatment. It’s infuriating and with the price of lumber going up, soon it won’t be an option. I’ll have to go with concrete.
That's nuts. Here in Florida is close but not as bad
How about pressure treating them with linseed oil.
I think I’ll just build with cedar or redwood.
I love both but cedar defiantly does not hold up to ground contact. I just replaced a bunch of cedar decking. I have two decks and the PT decking is fine. Both are about 20 years old and I seal each every year. I prefer the look of cedar though. My fence is cedar but the ground contact poles on PT. My sisters fence had cedar poles and they all failed fairly quickly. I live on the Northeast and its fairly damp Take care.
rots too and is expensive
We have problems with carpenter bees drilling cedar. Cypress is my preferred exterior exposed wood. I have heard that locust is also very rot resistant, and is actually very beautiful.
I agree with the sentiment that the new stuff don't last like it use too I was not aware of everything else thanks for the video
Thank you - well explained and to the point!
You're SO awesome, man. Thank you SO much for your incredible content!
Thank you, Sekrit!! 😄