Is Pressure Treated Wood Toxic in Garden Beds? - The Definitive Answer
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 03. 2024
- In this video, I respond to the myriad of comments on my Raised Garden Bed Side Hustle video, that say I shouldn't use pressure treated wood in garden beds. Spoiler alert, modern pressure treated wood is fine unless you are an organic gardener.
Here are some links on the subject to start you on your own research:
www.finegardening.com/article...
www.treatedwood.com/news/can-...
extension.oregonstate.edu/ask...
The music I use as Epidemic Sound (using my link will get me free months):
www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
For business inquiries:
davidmicd@gmail.com or
P.O. Box 271
Oxford, IN 47971 - Jak na to + styl
I’ve been using treated wood for twenty four years and two of my three heads agree it’s safe!
That's reassuring as I made my raised beds 4 years ago with treated wood, and I very much doubt whether I've got 20 years left anyway.
😂 lol !!
😂😂😂😂
I went the down the rabbit hole of looking all this up earlier after posting yesterday. Thanks
The old arsenic-treated wood is long gone. In most countries at least.
We still have ACQ-treated wood here and I do use it, but prefer to use hardwood for veg beds just in case.
Nice video that cuts through the old concerns and shows where we are at now. Cheers!
Thanks for this. I had a couple of similar comments about the raised beds that I had cobbled together (not as professionally done as yours though) and showed in one of my gardening videos.
I saw that comment after watching your original video, and have to admit I thought the same thing. I was always told the “ old” process of treating could contain arsenic. I immediately looked up the pickets I buy from Menards which are treated and called AC2 they actually said on there website ok for raised bed boxes but recommend a plastic liner 🤷♂️
Great video, thank you!!!
We have a cedar mill nearby, good prices for wood for raised beds. I use pressure treated wood as well, I use a plastic lining in all my raised beds anyway. Good info thanks.
Great explanation.
If it's an issue then line the bed sides with pond liner. Sorted.
Thats what i do. Even if its not pressure treated. I want my beds to last with all the money i put in them
Great info Dave! Thanks for sharing!
Good info and resources! Thanks!
I appreciate the video. I figured you would get a lot of comments about the pressure treated. I just don’t trust when the manufactures say stuff is safe. The super toxic wood play houses that many of our kids played on were told that it was safe. Maybe the new stuff is maybe not. By us Cedar Pickett are only $2.50 for the six footers at the low price and $3.50 at the high. But the cedar 2x4’s or 2x6’s still ridiculous.
Good video. Healthy and happy greetings always.
yes it is okay to use today, PT is not made the same as it was 20 yrs ago. Penn. sTate University wrote a wonderful article on this subject
Great info. I was wondering, do you have any info about how long ground contact rated PT pine lasts compared to untreated? Does it last about twice as long? How many years does it last on average?
Thank you, Sir!
The woodworking field most likely knows the information, "apparently not all by the comments" and there's still a large group that sees green lumber and are gun shy about it. Which limits the customer base. Maybe make both and price accordingly.
New sub!
Good video David and you’ve cleared a lot up for me. I’m using both treated and untreated. Keep doing what you do and don’t let negative responders stop the positive videos.👍🏽✌🏽
My god people the industrial fallout lacing your plants every day is more of a concern than the newer PT wood.
Many years ago, arsenic was commonly used on gardens for pest control, and was a favorite poison for spouses at a time when divorce was frond on.
This video is very informative and up to date... Thank you for the updates 💚
Ty for doing your homework and making this great vid .. and also THANK YOU !! For educating the “uninformed . “ 👍 now go plant flowers ppl ✌️
I usually build my planters from Rough Red Cedar, near me the only price difference for a Cedar picket of the same size as a pressure treated picket is 37 cents per picket
Yes! I didn’t know any of this! Now I do
Great video. ACQ and CCA research is too early to see a long term effects.
My wife is about using non-treated wood. So I made our raised beds for flowers out of treated wood. And I prepped the soil and didn’t make a raised bed for the edible plants we’re planting.
Fungus is part of soil maturing so I would just leave it alone.
Again. Great video
Its been 20 years. How much longer we need?
While I feel like you’re right, I also think there’s going to be people out there who would play it safe regardless and wouldn’t buy them, at least in my area. I build planters, not garden beds, so there’s a huge price difference in cedar 2x4s and fence pickets lol, so I just build mine out of cedar pickets to avoid the situation altogether. I wouldn’t hesitate to use PT if requested though.
I am going to use 4 x4 sections of untreated posts and non treated 2x6 boards. I will try boiled linseed oil on the posts especially on the end grain.
Thanks for enlightening me and doing the research. They probably have labeling on the wood to identify which method they treated it with?
During the inventory transition period, after the ban, they continued using Red on White labels for the "arsenate" type and Blue on White labels for the "new" type (maybe both "new" types) sold in my area, (the label may list which one was used).... I haven't checked recently to see what color (if any) they are currently using.
Good common sense .Thanks!!!
Seeing how you're filling that bed: Check out Hugelkulture methods (I absolutely misspelled that). I save a fair bit by filling the first half or so with branches, wood chips, grass clippings, etc, then topping that off with soil. Not great for root veg obviously, but fantastic for everything else. My preferred soil went up by $3 a bag so I need to save as much as possible. 😑
Please remember that the bacteria that digest the wood chips, etc, require Nitrogen. The bacteria will take Nitrogen from the neighboring soil. Over time, affecting Nitrogen loving plants such corn. Intermix the bed with Nitrogen fixing plants will help - peas/spring, fall, most beans, lentils /summer, then clover other cover crops) Corn and pole beans work well together. As the wood layer is consumed, the soil level will drop. Not opposed to this idea - it works... just watch for Nitrogen issues - Keep On a'Growing
You only need a max of nine inches of soil. Actually 4 inches works on everything but carrots. Why does anyone build a 20 inch bed to use only a few inches of soil. I say idiots. Put in a 12 inch board on a 2 inch cinder block. Put limestone gravel 2 inches in the bottom. it will stack up trust me. Then regular dirt from actual garden the Kow Manure then Whitney farms from Ace not Walmart raised garden bed soil not potting soil. Walmart has bark. Ace has real soil with Whitney. Place Lava rocks around the bottom to hide the limestone. Great drainage and great bed and only 14 inches in total height. Raised bed need not be 20 inches ever. Stain the outside of the lumber with Walnut stain. Lava Rocks and Walnut ROCKS!
@@carlawilliams7727 Many of us in the older generation build them taller so we don't have to bend over or work on our worn out knees. It's not always about the soil depth.
Good job and good video. I did the same research myself about 12 years ago and even spoke with my county extension office as well as the Auburn University extension office and was assured that the modern PT wood was safe for use in garden beds. I have been using PT wood in my garden beds for 12 years now without any issues.
Great video. Great information. But the audio is very quiet. Might be some sort of compression or something (idk).
Thanks. There's definitely an issue with the audio being a bit quiet, but unfortunately I can't fix it after upload. :(
What do we think about cedar fence planks?
Great Info
I know from experience that some modern pressure treated lumber rots as fast as non treated
Worried about the toxicity of PT wood (the older stuff), I made my Mom's raised beds out of regular lumber. This was over 15 years ago. They are still standing strong.
With that in mind, I don't see a reason to take any chances.
2004 was TWENTY YEARS ago...long ago enough for you to have become a grandfather!
Can bird houses be made from the modern pressure treated wood?
Where can I find that pallet tool you used in the video to remove the boards?
Here is an Amazon Affiliate link for the one I bought. I love it. No other method I've used comes close to the ease.
amzn.to/3TqdbMM
I was told something a little different when it comes to the chemicals. I get pallets for free all the time. Some are marked HT and others are marked MB. From what I understand, HT means heat treated and MB means Methylbromide. The MB pallets, from what I hear others saying, are the ones that shouldn't be used in the same way as CCA wood. Do you know anything about that?
You are correct methylbromide is a fumigation used to kill any insects that maybe hiding in export shipments, there maybe a small amount of residual left on the surface, it is not pressure treated to the timber itself, heat treatment means the timber is kiln dried to 70 degrees Celsius for longer than 6 hours to kill any insects, fungi etc that maybe present before shipping
I have a bunch of leftover pieces of 1x6 treated. Would the new type of treatment be safe for birdhouses?
All of the things I've read say no.But that's 2nd hand knowledge.
What's the brown lumber treated with. I'm talking about the lumber you find in home depot and such
Most likely ACQ (alkaline copper quarternary) arsenic and chromium free or MCA (micronised copper azole) both safer options than CCA treatment
Will not water and soil damage the wood
I use cedar decking boards. They do cost more, but not that much more for peace of mind. However, I found when installing a cedar wainscot, cedar dust is very irritating so I work outside and mask up. I avoid sanding. I've considered alternatives like corrugated steel, but I think they are galvanized so who knows what problems zinc might cause?
Also, the galvanizing process involves lead.
I look for the HT. heat treated
They took the Chromium and the Arsenic out, so now PT lumber is way less toxic, and way less resistant to rot.
Ive been reading for 20 plus years that PT wood is safe for garden beds. Most of the studies that Im aware of were funded by the lumber industry which I have a difficult time trusting. Long term there are no studies that Im aware of. This discussion comes up every year with our garden club. Over the years multiple master gardeners and a few scientists/chemical engineers have advised that they strongly disagree with using PT lumber for veggies. Even with that uncertainty the modern PT lumbers life when in contact with soil isnt that much greater than regular pine lumber anymore. I have used rough cut dimesional lumber from a local mill for years. Most of my beds are pine , and a few cedar. I get 6 to 7 years on the pine and 10 to 12 on the cedar. Not gonna take any chances
Is pallet wood treated?? I’m thinking no, but even so, unless these pallets I have are 20 years old I should be ok, right?
Oh no. Don't use Pallets. I heard they have soooooo many chemicals in them. Also, chemicals leak onto them during transportation. That's why business' give them away for free. I could use Pallets for so many ideas......but don't even want them near me.
From Home Depot: Ground contact lumber can be used for raised garden beds for ornamental plants. If edibles are to be planted, you can line the pressure-treated boards with plastic. This will keep soil from making contact with the wood. Don't use plastic across the bottom of the garden bed, as that will prevent drainage. Natural cedar and fir can be used for raised garden beds for edibles.
I wonder if waxing the wood would make it last longer.
A plastic liner would fix this issue, I sell my planters and raised beds with 3mil liners.
Where do you get your liners?
Because plastics are known for being great for your health.
We can't win 😞
Most gardeners fill raised beds with topsoil that has very high organic matter, which binds-up copper. Anyone who has used a lot of compost in their garden will notice that copper levels drop (which is one reason you never want to grow in pure compost). So the only risk of getting too much copper is when filling the raised bed with poor quality soil with low organic matter. And even then, you can probably deal with that by just adding zinc (zinc antagonism is the main issue with high copper, both for plants and humans). Having said all that, I would wear gloves when handling it, or maybe build a sill with regular lumber (especially for the kids), since direct absorption is the greater risk. Copper is an essential nutrient, but there is some risk of nutrient imbalances… Especially if you are vegetarian (and therefore at greater risk of zinc deficiency).
How can I tell how old some of this wood is on my property that I want to use?
You can’t. If you’re not sure, don’t use it
It’s ok !!!
Is the main ingredient in treated not copper? Copper is fine in the soil
More concerned about what I buy, even “organic,” from the store than what could potentially leech into the soul from new pressure treated wood.
Thanks. I scrounge old boards from curbside trash pick up, mostly, to mark off my lasagna style beds. Maybe not the best idea.
I was a contractor for forty years, and learned to say no to cutting treated lumber back in the seventies. Copper definitely has a strong negative effect on plants. Humans will experience this. Slowly leaching? Well, long term effects are the results that can or will happen, and you aren’t going to find long term research peer review reports on the subject, I believe. I use tile and a bit of reinforced Portland cement. Presto, no more treated lumber… or having to spread the poisonous copper everywhere. It’s just a matter of being open to new ideas, and changing the dialog.
Thank you for listening to the science. There is too much fearful nonsense out there.
👍👍👍
I’ve used treated lumber in my garden for thirty years. I’m close to eighty years old and still kicking .
Pressure treated lumber is not toxic.
Then comes the question of using creosoted rail road ties...
Who would ask that insane question? A simple google search will show the cancer it’s caused in neighborhoods in the United States
Pressure treated still rots, ask me how i know
I let my boards dry out! They are so wet at first purchase and that’s when I give them at least a couple years
Why not just use black locust?
yes
They took arsenic out of lumber years ago
"the material costs are literally a third of cedar" yeah, sure, until it falls apart and you have to dispose of the wood. In my area disposing of pressure treated wood is very expensive and they have weight limits per month on what you can dispose of. And no, they don't check for when the wood was made and if it has arsenic or not. But I can go dump clean (not treated or painted) cedar at the transfer station for free... Think the whole thing through please.
You need to turn up the sound my friend!
I don't tell people what to do with their own garden. I'm just saying that I don't make food contact areas with treated lumber.
We have decks on houses
The SDS on ACQ says; Causes skin irritation. Causes serious eye irritation. May cause cancer by inhalation. May cause respiratory irritation. May form combustible dust concentrations in air. The one for Copper Azole says Causes eye irritation. May cause an allergic skin reaction. Wood dust generated from sawing, sanding or machining this product, may cause allergy or asthma symptoms or breathing difficulties if inhaled, may cause respiratory irritation, may cause cancer. If small particles of wood dust are generated during further processing, handling or by other means, may form combustible
dust concentrations in air. Harmful to aquatic life.
Not something I want leaching into my food.
However, the scientists at Oregon State University, telling people to use plastic, must be idiots. All plastics leach chemicals that are not compatible with people.
The are different methods for pressure treatment that use different chemicals. But the fact that pressure treated wood is hazardous waste should say a lot, doesn't it?
the naïveté is strong in this one . just becsue the CCa products were banned and replaced doesn't tell us anything about the potential harmful effects of the newer substances . Yes ,
"they " are claiming the new treatment is safe but we were led to believe that CCA was safe by the same industry that is saying the current product is safe . so 😳
But most fence boards are treated.
Turn up for what
Yes the latest carcinogens always lack data so are perfectly safe.
indeed, to each their own though
This
Exactly. DDT, Teflon, and cigarettes were 'safe' too...until the company gets sued and has to expose their lies 😂
You use it fine…not me …no need to take the risk…to each his own….🖖
Where have these people been the last 20 something years?!
A child would need to ingest 5klgs of wood treated with arsenic. To even get arsenic poisoning sym
I appreciate your research, but for years research showed round up was safe. Personally in a pinch sometimes I will use treated wood but avoid it.
Cigarette was non cancerous for many decades
I would be way more concerned about the chemicals they spray continuously in the skies being harmful than whether the wood being used for a raised bed is harmful.
🧐
The treatment for wood now is not as good for construction it rots faster.
Farmers dont raise there plots why waste wood. Just plant in the ground.
Use STONE!
So prior to this date all treated timber which includes rafters and walls and floorboards in your home could be leaching carcinogenic substances in to your family.
So that's why there's a shortage of home's for American homeless people.
Gottit.
Rafters, walls, and floorboards are not made from pressure treated wood. Generally, the only treated wood used in home construction is going to be there very small amount of wood that’s in direct contact with the ground or concrete. The baseplate of a wall built on a slab for instance (with the rest of the wall being non-treated timber). Decks will typically be made with treated wood but are not “in” your home.
It's hard being a creator of any kind. You have to give all these explanations and justifications for things you do, even when you are right, lest you incite a swarm.
The new treated lumber is not toxic and if it was the leaching of any substance is limited to a month. Line your treated lumber bed with plastic garbage bags will eliminate any issue. Don't be stupid and buy regular wood. Treated lumber set on corner 2 inch cinder block with gravel in the bottom of bed then build up garden dirt then Kow Manure then Whitney farm raised garden soil not potting soil. Walmart Whitney is all bark. Ace Whitney is all great. Even if you did not line the bed. Plants filter and expel everything. If it doesn't kill the plant it will not harm you. This is common sense but yes take the word of a guy who wants to make money off You Tube that cares less about the subject
You clearly didn’t watch the video.
I actually think the constructed raised bed is overrated. Just go with mounds. Put some stumps, brush, fish guts, and any other materials on the ground, cover with soil, then cover with mulch.
Do as you wish but I wouldn’t use treated wood period. I don’t believe the poison doesn’t leach out into the soil
raised garden beds are way overrated and oversold to new gardeners, who have to contend with the many problems and cost.
simple rows are so much easier and doing irrigation for them is simple, how gardening should be. raised garden beds buy you a whole heap of problems.
Look back of all the things we were told were safe.. till hey we’re not.
Your life . I was told Agent Orange was safe…. Wake-up dude .
scientific data can always change. I'm pretty sure at one time, people didn't think arsenic was harmful.
WHAT? SPEAK UP I CANT HEAR U
Avoid pressure treated anything ever duh
Problem is the folks saying its safe and effective have no credibility
Penn State U, who has one of if not the most respected Ag program in the country has no credibility?
@@christophermcclellan8730 Pretty much. They have a history of brushing things under the rug. The ingredients used in the wood may be less harmful, great. Just saying the people at Penn. cashed out their credibility a while ago and people don't trust them in general. It's great your selling them though. As long as people know what there buying. There is more to grow then veggies anyway.
Interesting that my previous reply isn't visible, short answer is you are correct
You are patently wrong sir…if you do enough searching you will find someone that will agree with you, so why take a chance?
U are wrong
This video sound is terrible.
we were using arsenic laced lumber for beds 50 years ago, and I don't glow in the dark
You sure?
@@davidguelette7036 positive