Foreign Companies buying up famous Old British Motorcycle Brands? Why the Hate and Prejudice?
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Just my thoughts on the prejudice shown to Foreign companies taking over famous British motorcycle brands.
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Not only did they buy the rights to the badge, but they faithfully engineered and recreated the ride and experience, fit, and finish, and brought them back from the grave. And took all the risk themselves. They deserve a huge round of applause and gratitude, and our support.
I'm with you. British manufacturers scrimped on investing in plant, R&D and training since even prior to the war. The focus was always on writing cheques for the shareholders and boardroom, and never about improving the product.
The British could have done what the Indians have done, but they didn't. RE sold 900,000 quality motorcycles last year. And they sold that many bikes because they produce bikes that the market want. Good luck to them. I hope the same story can be said of BSA in a few years time.
Hope the fit, finish and engineering are consistently better than the old uk machinery produced!!!
Riccardo designed the entire bike. The engine dates to the BMW F650 and Aprilia Pegaso. That's why it is only a 5 speed (its already 20 years old) Nothing against them doing it but it's kind of phoning it in compared to RE building an entire new engine from scratch.
I,m no historian or economist either, but the economic "Full circle" or every dog has its day thing is of course quite accurate, I, personally am just pleased that royal enfield makes these bikes the 350, is in essence a "vintage" bike without the hassle of keeping a 50-80yr old vehicle on the road. And for royal enfield of India making them with their links to Britain, not just with motorcycles, for me, sits very well. Sitting on a Chinese equivalent, wouldn't quite work for me. Too be honest, riding around British villages on these machines feels right! I'm so pleased these machines exist... Just wish we had some Indian weather sometimes, it's my day off today and it's lashing down 😏. Thanks for the video.
I'm American, but of Indian decent.
I understand why some folks may dislike that something so "British" is made by Indians, but the same people fail to see that British and Indian people are linked through history wether one likes it or not. So it's no surprise that indians share an appreciation for English bikes (I personally own a Redditch made 350cc Bullet and a Madras made 500 Bullet now at 612cc with a Hitchcock's kit).
At the end of the day, I'm just glad ANYONE is reviving and resuscitating the storied brands.
How did you ever obtain a product from Hitchcock's in America?
To be honest we should be thankful that India provided a shelter for Enfield from Japanese onslaught because UK government wasn't willing to do so. Otherwise today's Royal Enfield resurrection would be extremely bumpy ride. Examples are in the plain view.
@@chrisschweitzer8707 I bought the bike in 2002 and had the 535 kit with stroker crank (thus 612cc) installed by the dealer. Back then Hitchcock supplied those parts marketed through the US distributor for Royal Enfield. If I remember they were called Classic Motorworks in Minnesota. I later installed a dual plug Boyer ignition (Kicking it over is tricky) and a black box along with a race clutch and performance cams. Reverted back to right side shift for a more positive (or as good as it was gonna get with the 4spd) gear changes. You'd be surprised that it makes near 40 HP and flies on the freeway comfortably at 80 mph. I've gotten close to the ton, even!
I appreciate you stating you're an American first. welcome brother. and try not to hate on england too much, they're mostly great guys
@@DavidSmith-jj5pr No hate at all! I'd actually love to go there someday and make a pilgrimage to the Ace Cafe!
I agree, but when Honda brought out the 750 four in 1969, that was smooth, reliable, and half the price, it killed off the remaining British manufactures. The British companies would not change, they said if it was good enough for your father/grandfather, then it's good enough for you. They died a quick death.
@@vonryansexpress were those fantastic British bikes also more reliable than the CB 750?
Seriously? Do you think British motorcycle manufacturers could afford to do something other than what they did?
@@kwakithailandabsolutely not.
@@kwakithailandand also not more reliable than the 750-four, an entirely different animal.
@@junkmangeorge6363 are you saying, that them managers couldn't make different decisions?
Because lack of financial resources, perhaps?
Am a Toolmaker . Have done work for Triumph and Norton.
The only thing that matters is that we retain the skills to make things.
The skills have been handed down from the days of flint napping!
How to make things is fundamental to a country's pride and defense.
I have never trained anyone, and am about to retire.
Hi David, I am a retired motor mechanic, when I say retired I really mean that for a couple of years now the government is giving me some money instead of taking it from me, which helps as I'm still working.
Good mechanics are in such short supply that I can, and sometimes do, charge what I like.
Successive governments have been blind to our country's needs, they believe in the globalist ideology but that is the road to ruin.
As large companies buy small entities and make them their own so will larger and more powerful countries take over those less able to manufacture goods. I'm glad I'm 68 and not 18!
@@frenchenstein is it "the Government" which "is blind", or the voter?
Good point. @@kwakithailand
@@clivegreenall309 thanks, mate 🙏
@@kwakithailandBoth.
I agree completely! I am a loyal Honda rider due to the fact that I worked for them for 37 years, however< I bought my first Royal Enfield this past February and I love it! The heritage is still there! They have kept the vintage ride alive with the Classic 350 reborn while adding modern reliability. I feel like I am riding a piece of motorcycle history thanks to them keeping the brand alive and well! RE has done a great job of maintaining the character of the machine and seem to to take pride in their efforts. Great video Stuart! People are people everywhere, the sooner we realize this, the happier we will be.
Four years ago at the age of 64 I returned to biking after a gap of about 30 years.. problem was that I couldn't afford a bike that I fancied and not being keen on sportbikes or adventure bikes..only a Triumph or Moto Guzzi appealed but was way out of my price range. Along came Royal Enfield with the Interceptor..tried it, liked it, bought it.. it's grown on me more and more and after four years and 43,000km I have no plans to sell it. The point is, it's thanks to Royal Enfield that I've been able to have four great years of riding exploring Europe ..adventures from South Italy to Montenegro, Baltic coast to the Adriatic. I'm very grateful to the Indians for that.
Brilliant video as always Stuart and I love the new BSA and Royal Enfields, and if it wasn't for these companies we probably wouldn't have these wonderful bikes 😌👍🏻 Lovely to meet you both at the flower stand at the interchange today, an absolute pleasure 😃👍🏻👍🏻
When I get some time, I go ride my ROYAL ENFIELD Continental and after 3 years this bike still makes me smile. It feels a lot better than arguing on a forum 😂
Those good times I have on the GT are made possible thanks to mr. Lal and so many others.
People with a heart for bikes and they want to put a smile on your face!
And the GT really is the first machine I still adore after 3 years and I cannot sell it😊
A spokesman of RE said: we don’t make motorcycles, we make your ride!
And we should be happy that RE is made in INDIA: workers are proud of what they do. They have very good business men and a great taste and feeling.
Look at Tripmachine.
I am sure (I do think this way already) that one day a label “made in India”, will give the same certainty as “made in Germany.”
We don’t have all the cool bikes you guys have in the UK over here in the US, like Mutt and Hero. But I’ve got a Royal Enfield Hunter 350 dare to say they’re better now than they were in olden times.
Interesting video. I'm old enough to have known the original iterations of these brands and am glad to see the names reappear on decent modern bikes, that at least acknowledge the heritage of the names.
That said, I do get browned off by brand washing. For example, Triumph sells its retro range on the myth of them being British bikes, which they haven't been for a decade plus. They pepper faux Union Jack logos everywhere and talk about the bikes "DNA". Why? Because they sell on image and it's a false one. They are made in Thailand and that's fine ( well actually it's not, economically, but I digress) but please be honest about it, and whilst you are at it, have prices that reflect the cheaper factory costs. I think that's why I like my Enfield Himalayan. It's not pretending to be a British bike and is cheap and well made. At the same time, my 97 Thunderbird is a real British bike.
For me, Triumph should set up a production line making Bonnies at Hinkley, if only to give credence to the image of them being a British bike manufacturer. No need to shut the Thai factories but at least build some of their iconic retro range in the UK
I think that the greatest example of a company that failed to modernize in the motorcycle world is Villiers, which I believe was the biggest small engine company in the world, which stayed rooted in the past and paid the price when the Japanese came along.
You are absolutely right. By the way, I also took first place in the company in running a very long time ago, when I was in the army. Greetings from Russia :)
It’s not really a British bike unless it’s built in Britain from a British design by British workers.
I believe a lot of these Indian made bikes like the Goldstar are designed here in Britain
The two things important are to be well designed and engineered, and to be well quality controlled in the factories, nothing else matters .. The few purely Chinese brands are killing it at the moment in the light weight adventure sector, because they listen to what people want .. In the land of the blind, an one eyed man is a king.
Not only the financial investment, but the passion and enthusiasm of the new owners shines through! The research and development of the new custodians of the brands, has lead to bikes like the Himalayan. Collaborating and purchasing Harris Performance to produce great handling machines. Like Uncle Stu said, we the enthusiasts and consumers benefit from all this! It's transformed and revived the Motorcycle Industry, and it's exciting to watch!
I really appreciate your dignified approach to this topic. On the topic of production of known brands being moved to other countries, or sold outright, it is done by corporations chasing higher and higher profits. We need to hold them accountable instead of hating those countries. You cannot buy something that is not for sale. Thank you, again for your videos and commentaries. Very enjoyable and informative.
I am sorry Stu, but it isn't racism speaking as part indian myself. Every group of have a history of lineage and how they are brought up in different environments. This further influences different business acumen and business strategies. Different countries different business as well as manufacturering cultures.
Also a lot of brands in the west have been deliberately killed off due to a concerted policy of deindustrialization sin the 90s. Or else do tell how was it possible for Nokia to manufacture in Finland and export one of the most reasonably princed phones in the market in the mid 2000s to 2011. They were the largest phone manufacturer for most of that time. Finland has been extremely high on per capita terms by decades now.
Keep up the valuable insight.
You cant say that because you havent read the hundreds of comments ive had to moderate
@@stuartfillingham Well, I shall grant you that. Perhaps they were far more nasty than i had considered.
@@Alv11269 Luckily a lot of them are filtered out by CZcams into 2 folders potentially inappropriate and harmful/abusive. both are regularly full but i still need to check them as they do tend to snag innocent comments, Also many slip through the net, I'm not sure why!
@@stuartfillinghamRacism against Indians is the new trend on social media these days.
The dehumanisation is mostly because of the rise of extreme ideology across countries, anyone is allowed to have views regarding immigration and what amount should be needed, who are they Letting in etc.
However, Indians have been a successful diaspora worldwide & are generally hard working, stay away from crimes, family oriented etc.
So to see & read such comments especially from bigger sections in social media is kind of disheartening.
I can only imagine the filter you go through to make ur comment section amicable.
Great bikes. I for one am pleased that Royal Enfield was kept alive in India and the current owners are have done a brilliant job. The current offerings from RE and BSA are probably better built than their predecessors 😂.
Aye. Semantics.
The coming together of rider, machine and road matters.
You remember what you feel.
In the guitar world Gretsch is a famous old US name that went bust. Their top line guitars are now made in Japan and are universally admired. The family still owns the brand, though, and were smart enough to build offshore. This is the world we live in. Japanese Gretsch quality control is now top notch, whereas back in the day they could be dodgy. Same could be said for certain British motorcycle brands. Sure we have lost something, but gained much more.
I think it’s bigger than just motorcycles Stuart, I think we lament for times gone by, better times, more simple times, when a woman didn’t have a penis and beard. BSA, Triumph, Norton, RE are brands with such a strong link to those bye gone times and even though it’s irrational really maybe it’s just another thing that’s feels lost to another nation, it emphasizes our decline.
The bike brands going abroad are still part of British culture, it's still great. Depends on how you look at it.
I've had a load of British and Japanese bikes and I still like both. Any of them can be leaky and unreliable given poor maintenance. Any of them can be leak free and reliable with good maintenance. There are still plenty of genuine 1950s bikes around because there are cottage industries providing the spares and services needed to keep them going.
I like to listen to your "thoughts on the subjects" in these podcasts, camouflaged as "videos", but they really are podcasts since the images are always pretty much the same : a pov view on the road through the eyes of a motorcyclist.
The value is in the content however.
Keep it up fella, look forward to these vids, riding my 350 around Wilts and hampshire, loving it!
From my perspective it is all about foreign companies getting British company goodwill and technology cheap, then trading on that goodwill whilst any jobs, profit and tech developed benefit non-British economies. It’s a big shame to see these companies losing business to other countries whilst the U.K. declines further. As an engineer I see the U.K. economy dependent upon financial products whereas the country is losing technology and skills. I’m disappointed to be letting my country down, no matter how hard I try to do well for my family, company and country.
@@fireatwill8143 I would like to take a moment of your precious precious time to thank you good sir for giving me the opportunity to building your bike and your shoes in India. I put some special Indian extras in your bike to making you feel proudest. Yes, we also making your safety gear to keep you safe sire.
@@StupidusMaximusTheFirstSorry sire, you didn't build my bike, it was designed and built in Britain, Please don't trouble yourself with making me proud of my country's motorcycling heritage, some of us have plenty already . 👍
Royal Enfield as a brand hasn't been out of production since its conception..unlike many other 'British Brands' that have been resurrected from time to time with varying degrees of success..In India the 'Enfield' was the bike to aspire to. It's probably better now than it ever was. Although l don't own an Enfield...l have rode a few...l admire what the Indian manufactures have done over the last few years. .They have maintained the very essence of Marque, unlike Norton whose business plan seems to be aimed at better off bikers....For heavens sake dump the Commando and build the ''Dommie Series''...
Hasselblad cameras are what were known as Medium format 6x6 cm. ..Leica, on the other hand were the first to use 35mm film.. Leica Range finder cameras are a work of art and hand made...thats why they are so expensive.
Enfield started in 1902. Older than Harley-Davidson and probably the oldest continuous brand or company.
Someone in Redditch forgot to call Madras and tell them to quit making the bullet the company closed shop
A very good analogy Stuart we should be buying by the product and not the country of origin if the product suits our need and budget and has a good spares availability buy it. But we also do need products of very high quality as a benchmark for companies to aim at to maintain a standard.👍
If you took foreign ownership out of English PL football there would barely be a club left...
It's a slow burning issue that I think will eventually bite the British people. Globalism betrays independent nations and their unique beautiful ways.
Everyone knows about Royal Enfields history. BSA is owned by Mahindra. TVS owns Norton. Bajaj is big enough to buy both Triumph and Perrier Group if it wanted to and given a chance it probably will. Hero is as big and would jump to buy Ducati or something else. Vincent and Ariel are two classic names that comes to mind. Maybe we should resurrect them
A few years ago Bajaj buy Vincent motorcycles.. ✌️
@@raulantonioperezortiz1118 yeah I seem to remeber reading about it two years ago but nothing since. It's a strange thing because Bajaj can't revive it as a brand to compete with RE as that would be in conflict with its own Triumphs. Maybe they bought it to rival Norton. Still some years to go before we see anything from that or maybe they'll sit on it.
Hero would aquire something already running but they are way to late. I remember something about Ducati or now maybe even Harley. Harleys demise is inevitable once that generation goes so will the sales. Hero has got to do something in this space. More options can only be good for us consumers
I wonder whether Audi would part with Ducati? 🤔
@@metannica1 back when Hero was in discussion, it was because of Dieselgate. VW needed money and they did consider selling Ducati.
VW is investing a lot of money into electric vehicles and even in India, it's car business is doing horrible. Losses might be there in the future. Maybe they'll have to sell it. Nobody can say what the future will bring.
Brough Superior motorcycles are now produced in France.
I’m 75 years old. And I have ultimate respect for the engineering capabilities of the aisian /Indian people. They do amazing things that this country is rarely capable of. I concur with your voices
No problem with Royal Enfield at all, they dont pretend to be anything they are not, I believe they employ more people in the UK than Triumph? I was really impressed by the review of BSA, its on my list for consideration as a future purchase, my issue has always been with Triumph who shamelessly trade on Union Jack symbolism on their retro range, non of which are made in the UK, in my mind thats out of order, I have a "real" Triumph a 79 T140 its only taken 16 years of ownership & several years worth of overtime to sort it ! 😂
I knew the brand, and in the past I thought those were made in the UK. Then to my surprise, I discovered those are not only made in India, but if you wanna get one, you can only buy it from India. I can sort of understand that though, since as he says in the video, most people will go for the superior Japan made bikes. So maybe Royal Enfield realized they have a better chance in the Indian market, both for cost but also because those expensive and super fast Japanese bikes, are not only too expensive for India, but also you can't ride them there in those roads. Maybe that's the reason? I like those bikes though personally. Inexpensive, easy to maintain, and they can do it all - almost, all but go fast I guess, something's gotta give. Now you say you can get them in the UK? Are you sure about it? Anyway, you got Triumph though, really good bikes although a bit on the too expensive side - if Triumph would lose to a Japan made equivalent, is cost.
@johnfitchie9892 I use to love Triumph had 6 half bought new.
The Hinkley made bikes were extremely well made. Not one ever let me down.
The last one a street twin was the worst bike i ever owned. Electrical and gearbox problems.
@@davidforsdike4343 Ah the dodgy wiring and glass gearbox problems that everyone pretends dont exist!
There’s nothing new. Only that which is forgotten.
You are absolutely correct Stu. We should be grateful these brands have been brought back. Hope to see more of them, as long as they are in the same quality area.
Hi Stuart. Great video as always.
Whilst agreeing with the general thrust of your video, there are instances where 'premium' names are being used used to sell sub-standard items.
Several years ago, I paid a lot of money for a new AEG cooker. The price for this was approximately one and a half times more than a similarly specified model from other manufacturers.
I paid the premium, because in my mind, AEG represented the pinnacle of solid German engineering.
Three months later, the unit failed, due to a failure in the design. The cooker was repaired under warranty, but failed again some three months later, with the same fault.
In both cases, the repair involved the complete replacement of the 'hob' portion of the cooker, heaven knows what the cost would have been!
At the second visit by the repair engineer, I remarked that this was a pretty poor result from a company like AEG!
His response was; 'All this AEG stuff is now made by Electrolux mate'...
I bought one of the first GoldStars last March and absolutely love it. Back in the day I owned a BSA A10 Road Rocket so I've always been a BSA fanboy. Personally i couldn't give a monkeys what people say about it or about me for buying one. It suit's me fine and the fact its made in India or has a radiator is of no bother to me whatsoever.
Royal Enfield shipped their own machinery across to India. BSA exported huge numbers of bikes to India in the 50s onwards to their own distributers there.
On average a large company exists for about 75-100 years before it is merged, bought out or ceases trading. As an example, living where you do, I am sure you have heard of ICI, 1926 - 2008. It was, at one time, Britain's largest exporter, now it has been absorbed into AkzoNobel and no longer exists...
From Kentucky USA...I'm looking at a Royal Enfield 650 (model TBD). The main thing that gives pause is the dealer network. I think the Indians have produced a quality machine and I'm glad they did.
Good morning Stuart, good video. After watching your other video the other day I went out and test ride the BSA 650 gold star, and although yes a lovely bike, the smile on my face getting back on my royal Enfield meteor 350 just said it all really , I don't know whether it's because the Aurora has a lot of upgrades, metal switch gear , touring seat , fly screen , tripper , spoked wheels, extended front mudguard chromed engine and exhaust , LED light and so on but it actually felt better quality than the BSA , also and I noticed this in some social media groups , it's doesn't seem to hit a limit at just over 70mph , myself and others that own these , have managed an indicated 85mph which even if we say that's 80 is still very good and happily sits there on the motorway, and it doesn't die very easy on hills either, so I wonder on the Aurora did they map things a little differently 🧐 Also coming into junctions ' the lower speed was just handled by the engine so much smoother on the meteor , like a whole different level of smooth.
Anyway , loving the videos , I'm subscribed and the bell icon is on , ride safe 🏍️😎 19:43
Credit to Eicher, they have ensured the survival of a great British brand in the classical style, and they do have a strong British presence in Bruntingthorpe England!
The Royal Enfield UK Tech Centre is the global headquarters for product strategy, development, industrial design, research and programme management.
The centre itself is spread across three thousand square metres and includes an industrial design studio, engine development lab, electrics, chassis build, spray shop, model shop, metal work and parts store.
I wonder if we wait around long enough, the UK will again become poor enough that we will become the place that is used to manufacture again. 😁
I’m glad they are bringing back bikes from my youth. Also glad they are better than the bikes we rode, when I look back we used have to sort them more than we rode them.
I think it was actually Floyd Clymer that was selling rebadged Enfields in the US in the 60s
Isn't it a shame that our great nation after successive bad government have raised the price of energy due to NET ZERO destructive policies and councils raising council tax for businesses so high that unless your charging the earth for your products you can't be competitive on the world stage. A local company to me spend a million pound a year on electricity, that used to cost 300, 000 since net zero its trebled, how long can they sustain that? How long will all those jobs be availiable? When that company goes 100s will be out of work.
That's why we don't have any motorcycle industry, overheads.
Keep increasing energy costs and soon we'll be burning sticks and dung and using natural, clean-burning fat lamps for illumination in our mud huts.....
After much consideration I'm taking delivery of my Himalayan in 2 weeks time. I think it's a beautiful looking bike and a world class bike. I've owned 10 bikes from 7 brands. Good looking well engineered is all I ask. Excluding Harley Davidson a bike I blew up twice.
Thank you for this video Stuart. I’m a sixty year old Californian and find myself in line with your perspectives… on motorcycles as well as many other things. Ride safe.
Is it racist to feel that it's wrong for a foreign company to trade on some aura of Britishness (or Italian-ness in the case of Benelli) when the company is Indian or Chinese in all but name? I feel exactly the same about cars, I'm more than happy to buy a BMW, but I couldn't buy one of their Minis (with their Union Flag rear lights) because well, it's just false pretences. I get that it's not necessarily rational, but since when has purchasing a motorcycle been a 100% rational decision? I will very likely buy an RE one of these days, but I certainly won't be putting Union Flag tank pads on it.
Not really! BMW began its motor car industry building Austins under license. So.... in buying Rover they went back to their roots
@@stuartfillingham You learn something new every day!
Well said Stu, Indian motorcycle market is bigger than the rest off the world combined, so they could proberly do fine without any prejudice!!!!!!
Yeah most of these bikes were shipped off to India & places because that was were the market was for them, I think the reason they're so accurate the originals is because since these bikes were no longer supported they built there own parts eventually leading to them being able to manufacture the full bike in India.
This just illustrates a point of why we don't build our own cars, bikes esc here in the UK the reason business's are dying out! all because of over taxation.
Over taxation, over regulation. We're going through this here in America. Along with the cycle of business there is the cycle of government. They tend to grow in size until they become a cancer, devouring the culture and the economy.
I purchased an India Enfield (not Royal then) back in 1996 here in the states. I can tell you from personal experience that Royal Enfield has become a quality brand compared to those days. I applaud what they have done to preserve the marque with much more than a passing nod to its heritage.
My KTM is built by Bajaj in India. It's awesome.
I hardly get any negative feedback on my Interceptor , and when I do its more in jest from my Biking buddies who ride other brands , well done Stu bringing some common sense to this.
Newcomer to your excellent channel. You have a calm, sober and well thought perspective every time.
Old Buells are my joy. For those unfamiliar with their history, there is plenty of material online. There is a new Buell company, making bikes reminiscent of the ones manufactured in their last decade, 2000 to 2009, before they were shut down by H-D. Do not get me started on that mistake! I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to bring back a defunct brand, to keep a good balance between nostalgia and innovation, to entice the most number of new customers while not alienating the old ones. Triumph has done a great job of that.
To those quick to criticize, I would say, before impulsively attacking the reborn companies, no matter who buys the brand, and rather than being a Monday morning quarterback, how about sitting back and observing their progress for a few years? You might like where they take the brand and the product.
Surely we should be happy that such British brands are thought of so highly by other investors that they buy the right said defunct brands , then reproduce icons from the past , improve where needed and then recapture that spirit in a well produced affordable product , I own Redditch bikes and have test ridden nearly all the new RE models , I also own a 500 Madras bullet , to this simple soul all seems they have done is modernise and refine these bikes , basically extending the lineage , the world is a better place for this as well . Long may it continue , I look forward to both RE and Bsa to continue this current business model , ok they will and are adding models that will appeal to those that don`t wish for a modern classic , they will have too to remain competitive , but may the heritage models long continue and may my wallet grow fat enough to afford them
Can I just add one comment, I think Moto Guzzi is still as it was and has been going 100+ Years? No new owner possibly been financially helped by Piaggio but still the original?
yes hence me not mentioning them
Great Video 100% agree with your views. Lovely to see these old British bikes being given a modern take, I don't care who makes them, 99% of stuff we purchase isn't from the UK anyway. In my humble opinion judge a machine on it's own merits.
Very good points, well made.
While I’d always prefer to support British jobs, and do when I can, the reality is that the world’s manufacturing economy is complex. Where does the analysis end? Who owns the shares in the manufacturer? A hedge fund? A foreign industrial conglomerate? A pension fund? Where does it raise corporate finance?
It’s the same with cars. I’ve had people tell me they bought a BMW because it’s “German”; but it’s built in the U.S. The truth is that assembled products are a melange of parts from all over the world anyway, and are frequently not assembled where people assume them to have been.
We have choices. I ride a T120. I know it’s not made in Britain, but then Triumph employs people at Hinckley and builds bikes there. I’d happily buy an Enfield, too. I have a Honda. Made in Italy. And so it goes on.
I’ve found the same problem with my Vespa,being made in India using the Italian tooling visually it’s identical,but the bearings used and quality metal used in the engine casings is inferior I’ve seen crank shaft bearings from a 20k miles 1970s Italian Vespa with more life in it than a New Indian one..but they are a lot cheaper..
It has to be remembered that: If it wasn't for Redditch sending out tooling to India for the 350 Bullet in the 1950's. We wouldn't have Royal Enfield today. Madras kept knocking out Bullets for years on end, until they became popular in the UK. The 'Royal' part of the name wasn't restored until the late 1990's (You want to see the state of my 1999 500 Lightning. Royal Enfield on the engine, but Enfield everywhere else).
The lineage of the Marque wasn't really ever broken. Who care who owns it?
Once again stuart your on the money, i don’t understand one bit when people walk over for a look at my Enfield and smile before the y tut and say oh but its not a real one is it at which point I usually have a stupid answer like yes its real look and i rap the tank with a knuckle see its really there, i think if these foreign company’s weren’t doing what they’re doing a lot of us wouldn’t be re living our past now
I trained as a motor mechanic apprentice. The garage had a full engine reconditioning shop so I leaned boring, crank grinding and head skimming. They also had a dynamometer, a body shop where I learned panel beating and spraying. I also learned vehicle electrical systems. That apprenticeship set me up for life and latter part of my career I built hydraulic control systems for Astute nuclear sub.
Where can a young person find an apprenticeship like I had?
Just so long as people realise that what they have is a name from the past,but none of the real heritage,just like the companys that bought the names,They are selling you a lifestyle ,a sense of a bygone era and a way of remembering a simpler time.Its like so many things,Nostalgia is big business.and thats all these bikes are.
Stuart,
These companies keep the legacy alive. I am so pleased to see Norton, BSA and Royal enfield products in their old style being produced, though with modern features. RE rules the market in India. Their Interceptor 650 just brought back the best twin you can find in the market at that price.
Am wondering who will revive brands like AJS, Vincent, Ariel, Brough, Matchless and so on
Great video Stuart!
Got my RE Classic 350 purely on looks (and a test ride, oh yes and on price and reliability!!). No issue with it's lineage or heritage. Could have been any brand - it chose me rather than the other way around I think.
Just wonder if people react the same way about Toyota cars vs Hyundai or that Minis are produced by BMW and not BMC?
Aren't there more important things to fret over, and perhaps the haters should get out more and ride their own bikes!
Love (almost) all bikes. Their survival history is always fascinating, especially when the marque and esthetics are promoted in a design
(E.g. my 2020 T120 & 2023 Guzzi V7 Special Edition)
In 1994 I bought a new Yamaha xv 535 cost £4500 approx, after a year of riding the bike was in a terrible state with rusty wheels etc , today I think it would cost about £7000 now zoom forward last week I bought a royal Enfield 350 meteor 600 miles 1 year old for £2150 the build quality and ride handling are up there with some of the best , we the British people are on to winner with such a choice Viva Royal Enfield.
Great video and thanks for all the info Stuart
Note: Ilford still manufacture a lot of 'film' in the UK. Actually called Harman as the Ilford trade name is owned by the Swiss and they use the Ilford name under license for black and white film. Harman is actually the name of the guy who started making film in Ilford back in the 19th century. Kodak film is still made in the US (owned by a the British pension funds rescue organisation!!) As for the future. Well Raspberry Pi computers are made in Wales. It isn't the end of the world yet!
Sensible, hard hitting but eye opening thoughts...as always! 👊💪👍
Harley Davidson has been through all these ownership rises and falls for years. AMF, a bowling pin and equipment maker, bought them in the 1970's. AMF bought many other recreation product names, if not just parts makers and distribution. What a boondoggle.
But at that time, no one was bemoaning the break in familial pedigree, all while their stalwart unchanging ways literally doomed H-D. Hell, Harley had no small bikes on the US, so they rebadged Aermacchi bikes as their own. No one heard of Aermacchi in the US.
So nothing is new here. It's just what one wants to call it.
AJS comes to mind, what a missmatch of parts, but it's out there still some how, not as we old gits remember, but still going!!
Well said Stuart - social history, the evolution of national economies, and a bit of appropriate finger wagging!
I am just happy that anybody continues to build these beautiful bikes.
Couldn't agree more!
Is a Roll Royce no longer a Roller because it’s built in Goodwood and owned by BMW, is it no longer a Bentley because it’s owned by VW, though still built in Crewe?.
Companies that show the foresight to use the names of once famous marques and bring to market new and innovative products, as far as I'm concerned, is great.
Nothing wrong with good budget , cool style made in India Royal Enfields
I absolutely adore my Classic 500! I do NOT care where it was made. It is just a simple, honest, reliable and immensely fun bike to ride with all the quirks and quibbles that can be expected with a machine designed so long ago. I just spent many hours trying to sort out a weird throttle problem with my BMW R1200RT that would NOT happen with the cable actuated Royal Enfield. I enjoy both, for entirely different purposes.
One of the most soulless things about the car industry is the interchangeable parts between the manufacturers,
a friend of mine bought a Volvo because the reputation was that the car was high quality and bullet proof, and when it broke down in the 1st month he was horrified to find out that it had a lower quality Peugeot engine in it which was installed in order to meet the prescribed eco rating of the car.
I saw a video recently where someone was looking at the serial number tags of multiple parts fitted to various makes of cars and they all had BMW stamped on them.
There are about 3 small electric vans that are available from different makers at the moment where they are all identical to each other….
same chassis, same body shape, same dashboard and interior, just different badges fitted on the outside.
[it makes the manufacture’s identify meaningless]
So when an Indian company is faithful to their design and fits parts to Royal Enfield bikes that are bespoke to them then it’s a real Royal Enfield.
And When Triumph fits parts that are bespoke to their bikes then they are real Triumphs.
When a manufacturer designs and builds something individual to their company then they have produced something worthy of their brand name.
I did not think about it this way. You have changed my thinking.
Frist great video. Unity in diversity should be humanity future. Using the best of everyone talent will make us all bring together
1. Most of the royal Enfield bikes are designed and consulted by many UK engendering companies. I think this is positive for UK companies.
2. Manpower is not biggest strength for UK in which India can provide it resources .
3. I owned(actually my father :)) a RE 1985 in India I never thought why it called Royal Enfield which I came to know when I visited UK and there was town Enfield where RE was once produced. It was great bike and very happy we had one and never thought why it is called Royal Enfield not Royal India.
You're spot-on about re-badging. Dodge (now Fiat/Stelantis) has been calling an engine a "Hemi" that does NOT have hemispherical heads. They've badged a four-door sedan as a Charger, and an Alfa Romeo shit-box as a Dart. It's infuriating, but it's their legal right. They own the names, and they can hang them on whatever they want. The only thing we can do as consumers, is speak with our wallets.
Another great video. Commenting to help boost.
I don't care where its build. It has to look good, technical and practical up to order and put a grin on my face.
After riding yamaha's, a few harley's, many moto guzzi's and now the little enfield wich in many ways is the best for my health.
The moto guzzi v7 stone still is italien. I would love to see you test and review that bike uncle Stu. Thanks for this video.
A classic case of looking what we have not what we had , when the Interceptor came out I was blown away ( saw Jay Leno testing one on his U tube program)because here was a bike that I really wanted and could afford it didn’t matter to me where it was made without the resurrection of Royal Enfield I probably would not have bought another bike at all, as always Stuart Thankyou for your thoughts and Wisdom .
I suggest that the Royal Enfield Co buy out HD. HD is perpetually in financial trouble, and today, their machines are wayyyy too expensive.
The only viable question is, "Is it a good product?" I was looking at a mid-sized Honda when I rode the Enfield. The Enfield won the contest.
Even that "Great American Bike", HD is overwhelmingly an assemblage of foreign parts.
I totally agree Stu, in fact every time I thought I could add to your comments here, you covered it later in the video. All I will say is that had it not been for these famous names being bought and thankfully being used in a faithful way to the original maker, they would have disappeared forever. We are fortunate to see modern interpretations of famous machines and not BSA badges being stuck on generic Chinese 125's as you say or worse still, being put on vacuum cleaners or washing machines!
Thanks for an eloquent, enlightened and educated expose on this extremely divisive subject.
When i hear made in China (my leoncino) or India, race has nothing to do with my concerns about quality. My yamaha xsr900 never had a single issues past 30k km. My benelli has soooo many and died at 25k.
However, the same vitriol and derision along with generalization is NOT directed towards consumer products from the US or Europe! That is the rub. They make plenty of substandard products. Agreed Japanese products are top of the shelf when it comes to quality. The worst products that have had the misfortune of owning are European (FIAT) and American (Ford).
Well said. What a lot of people don’t understand is that we no longer have the required skill-base in this country to be able to build equipment, be it televisions or motorcycles, or indeed maintain the infrastructure needed to manufacture them. Having recently retired from a life working in engineering, I wouldn’t trust some of the remaining staff to make my bed, let alone make my motorcycle!
As a musician I'm well aware that the Chinese/Korean/Malaysian/Indonesian companies can manufacture instruments that match the look, feel and sound of USA-made Fenders and Gibsons at a third of the price. At the end of the day a good machine is a good machine, regardless of the place of manufacture or the name on the headstock/petrol tank.
Although I don't play much, these days, I've had the luxury of playing a lot of "high end" American guitars over the years including unobtainium vintage guitars, and I've had the honour of owning a rare narrow neck 335 myself. I've now got a '79 Greco 335 copy. It is objectively as good as, if not better than my old 335.
I've also got an SG inspired Korean made Washburn that is better than any SG that I've ever picked up. I purchased my son a Japanese Martin copy for his 18th birthday. $150Au for the guitar, $300 at the luthiers... phenomenal. I've actually played a couple of better acoustics than that, Guild and Gibson, but
it's still a hard to beat guitar.
Don't get me wrong. It wouldn't be hard to convince me to get Gibson tattooed on my forehead in large letters (I don't have tattoos). But the reality is that old American guitars were a bit of a lucky dip. Yep, they're "hand made". But there's a lot to be said for CNC machining in the modern age. It's better, really.
Good is good. Nostalgia is nostalgia. Good's cheap, when it comes to guitars, these days.
Simply put…..well said Stuart.
As an Indian, thank you for putting together this video in support of Indian manufacturing - to be fair though, I understand British folks being okay with Triumph as a British motorcycle but not Royal Enfield / Norton / BSA, as a symptom of nationalism more than the racism you've called it out as; cheers for the great content as always
I've been pleasantly impressed by my Scram. After two years, it's time to move it on as I want the new Himalayan. Having had a close look, it is a well built, well engineered motorcycle. The Royal Enfield name on it is a little bonus, but not essential.
Stuart, a thought-provoking video. I am a RE Himalayan 411 owner which I love and I also own multiple BSA A65s from the 60's. I have no prejudice about the Indian-owned brands. As you point out they are producing good useable and affordable bikes. I initially took exception to the Gold Star as in many ways it was too faithful to BSAs of the late 50s when the Docker family owned the brand. The bike was in my estimation overpriced for the quality of the product, now a Gold Star can be purchased for just under £5000 I think it is at the correct price point. If I can come to terms with the radiator size, I may well purchase one. Whilst I love my A65s they are happier ridden hard, now I am in my late 70s I think I would be more at home with the laid back attitude of the Gold Star.
All valid points Stuart, but if anyone other than a Brummie ever produces a Velocette I will run around screaming, tearing my hair out!
At the end of November 2022, 5.5 million people worked in local units of manufacturing with 50 or more persons employed in Germany. I don't think it is inevitable that countries will lose viability for manufacturing as they get more affluent. I generally agree with you that it is OK for companies to buy up these brand names and use them on their products. These days it is easy to do the research and find out how much or little connection the products have with those of the original manufacturer. What I object to is the type of marketing you mentioned, where a new company will claim to have been going 100+ years.
This is an excellent video and never seen like this one before. It's an eye opener for ignorant people. Keep up the good work!! Happy Motoring
I wish someone in India would bring back the Vincent before it's too late, same engine look but modern frame and cycle parts